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April 14, 2007

Comments

PeterUK.

"the report leaked to CREW covers March 2003 to Oct 2005"

These bozos call themselvs "Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington" and they accept leaked confidential material?

topsecretk9

Well that's weird. the "leaked" report coincides with someone's predicament to their retirement. Wonder who they got it from, wouldn't be one of their clients would it?

sylvia

Am I allowed to post on this topic? Or will you shun me on this one too, even if I agree with you?

Syl

in terms of when we converted from Lotus Notes to Microsoft Outlook if there would have been any potential loss there

Ha!

My [early] experience with Outlook was one of the scariest in my computing history. When the total of email messages hit 1000 (yes, 1000) the Outlook file started writing to itself in an endless loop and ate half my harddrive before I realized what was happening and was able to kill it.

I'm quite sure that didn't happen here because I'm also sure MS eventually fixed the bug, but I can't speak to that directly because since that day Outlook has not been even within shouting distance of my PC.

But I also doubt that switching from Lotus Notes to Outlook would cause this kind of loss over a long period of time. The time of initial conversion would be the vulnerability. However, if all the email that was lost were from the Outlook period, then the conversion itself could have messed up and left gaps, large or small, in the data that was actually converted.

sbwaters

They used PCs? I smell a conspiracy!

They used PCs? Boy, those Bushies are dumb!

You know, the singular characteristic of lefties is their laziness. If they can leap to a conclusion -- any conclusion -- to avoid actually having to think, they will.

SunnyDay

Umm, I have techs that are better than that (WH email archiving system) running my website.

If the info is backed up in real time, it's still there. If it isn't backed up in real time, how can anyone expect not to lose some? there is redundancy on top of redundancy, if the info is important.

If it isn't - don't expect to find it and don't claim you save them all.

after 9/11, when the stock market systems failed, amex systems failed, insurance company systems failed, brokerage systems failed. You know what?? There were people in hotel rooms, working from the backed up data files. Nothing was lost. Nothing.

sbwaters

The last year has helped me tease ought the subtleties of ignorance:
- Those ignorant of history.
- Those ignorant of the necessary logic to use history.
- Those ignorant of their ignorance.
- Those who fight to keep their ignorance.
For lefties to master all four is a signal accomplishment.

sbwaters

Doh! And I previewed... ought s/b out

Sara

I don't know why anyone is surprised. Look at the problems members here had in just registering a Typekey login. And Outlook's archival function tends to take old emails and put them somewhere no one can find easily.

Most office workers I know, government or civilian, know how to turn on their workstations and hit the send button and fill in forms for their particular job, but know nothing at all about how they system they work on works. And even if they are computer literate on their home computer, they haven't a clue how networks work.

I doubt seriously that even the most savvy tech could screw up a properly designed systerm and get away with it without leaving a trail. This is another of the juvenile nutroot ideas that has no basis in reality.

richard mcenroe

I asked the MoveOnBots last night when we were going to see Feinstein's DNC e-mails over her husband's appropriation contracts. They seemed annoyed.

clarice

Hold on! This just in! Scrap of email thought lost..recovered:"I called Dick Armitage. TOld him to leak to Novak and then keep his mouth shut about what he did so we can all pay dearly.Karl" LOL

Other Tom

At this point, I simply settle for delighting in the Moonbats' impotent frustration. I hope that somewhere, somehow, somebody in the administration actually did something wrong in this matter, and that whoever it is gets away with whatever the hell it was. That oughta rattle their cages for a while!

Jeff Dobbs

I think there is definitely something nefarious here.

I reproduced a portion of an email I SENT to my cousin at the WH in 2005 on an earlier thread. I found it just fine in my (outlook) archives.

YET....I found no record of his responses back to me!!!!! AAAAHHHHAAAA!!!! He must have deleted my archives of his emails to me!!!

I bet Karl Rove personally did this.

SunnyDay

H&R there is actually some software that will do what you described - if their marketing statements are true. I'll see if I can find it.

SunnyDay

Oh, wow! What did I just say? Wheeeeeeeeee! Off to find it. :D

SunnyDay

it's pointofmail dot com - click on "What" in "what you get for the lowest price..."

# 17, 18, 22, 23, 27 Amazing stuff.

Tom Maguire

If the info is backed up in real time, it's still there.

Boy, that seems obvious when you put it that way. I have some vision of people mounting tape drives and trundling them off somewhere at midnight, but I may as well be thinking about scribes and papyrus.

Anyway - 1,7000 employees generating 1 email message each for 1000 days results in 1.7 million emails; 5 million is a pretty significant fraction of that.

Or 10 emails/person/day yields 17 million emails; 100 per day yields 170 million. At that level, 5 million is a bit of a pittance.

Meaning what? And does a server store just once an email that was sent to ten different people in the White House?

I am still essentially baffled.

Am I allowed to post on this topic? Or will you shun me on this one too, even if I agree with you?

Sylvia, you know we love you, except on the Duke thing.

Rick Ballard

"The last year has helped me tease out the subtleties of ignorance:"

I won't argue the depth and breadth of ignorance (again, both feigned and real) displayed on the left but I don't believe that's really what's going on, nor do I consider subtlety to play any part in the charade. The last original thinker on the left, Kojeve, died some forty years ago and the derivations of his "final" analysis have been swirling around the bowl since at least ten years before that. Historicism was no fun from the beginning and its "practical" application killed more than 100 million people. It's rather fitting that it is 'dying ugly', considering that it has been a lie since inception.

All that is left is theater of the absurd with a cast of fools who are unreasonably proud of being buffoons. All they have is the losers narrative and variations on a very tired theme.

Ignorance ain't really innit - these are folks who can't produce anything of merit on their own - and they damn well know it. Ned Ludd would recognize them in a heartbeat.

clarice

OT< You and I had the same math teacher--LOL
[quote]Anyway - 1,7000 employees generating 1 email message each for 1000 days results in 1.7 million emails; 5 million is a pretty significant fraction of that.[/quote]

Rick Ballard

"Sylvia, you know we love you, except on the Duke thing."

How many frogs do you have in your pockets at the moment?

Jeff Dobbs

SunnyDay:
H&R there is actually some software that will do what you described - if their marketing statements are true. I'll see if I can find it.


I won't dispute that contention, but will readily admit (though probably not necessary) that my comment was entirely sarcastic.

I delete my inbox (and subfolders) to keep it clean -- but don't ever really do much with sent items...out of sight out of mind...so, the situation described is as innocent as can be imagined.

AND.....of course I can read all of his emails to me *in* my sent items, EXCEPT any that he sent *after* my last email to him....which, though no one may believe it...is unlikely that he sent me an email to which I did not reply.

In email exchanges....I *will* have the last word and defy anyone to challenge me on this.

[VIMH:Is that true of your JOM comments?]
Well.... You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


Now. Off to order pizza for dinner......

DEMO

If they're only counting emails sent the average is 2.9. This is low, but many of the accounts may not be actively used. They're also backups, daily, weekly, and possibly monthly. They're are other systems beside the RNCs mail-server where these emails reside: laptops, desktops, and servers. They're also log records kept at the RNC's ISP. They're running Exchange Server 2007.

SunnyDay

Tom, re copies sent to different people. Probably the information is stored, but not 10 copies of the email. the email, who sent it, when, and to whom, plus anything else they want to be able to retrieve later.

Disclaimer, I am not a techie, my degree is in English and education. I have some good ones that do work for me, though, and they explain things in between their snickers at my questions and misuse of the terminology.

A clue how well stuff is backed up - I was netring an insurance application, with money, at a workstation, when the power failed. The lights kind of almost blinked as the power switched over to generator. The computers don't blink.

I've entered information that seemed to disappear - I came to find out - after the client complained that he never got his paperwork and the money was never charged to his credit card - that the server I was on had hiccupped right that instant for some reason (I don't recall why).

I got some info from the client - name, address, dollar amount of the transaction - so the IT folks knew what to look for - two days later it was squared away - correct dates and everything. Looking at it, you would never know anything happened.

The server I was on was backing up to a mainframe - in real time.

On the other hand I've seen data transfers (like when one company buys another) that go haywire, the info is scrambled, in the case of years of records, it drops everything but the original info - gone forever - or it's scrambled until it would be unrealistic to try to unscramble it. Sloppy work. Now, it could have been done over, the original info was still on the mainframe. But they didn't do it.

SlimGuy

As I understand this issue , the White House system has a total audit trail and backup of all emails under laws that have been enacted to ensure that history.

The other issue is the RNC email system of only a limited number that were given laptops to separate out political party issues from government business issues.

The RNC mail system is not covered under the same legislation.

The mail losses may be perfectly justified due to no reason of requirement of law to hold backup archives as mandated by the law in other cases.

In any event even if Rove for example deleted an email off his laptop , it depends on how the mail server is configured as to weather the mail item is deleted on the server by this action. Then the mail server backups may be unique continuous backups or only a certain time frame subset until backup media is reused.

TM

Mail servers on any reasonable server will have the capacity to hold years of history before culling out. The overwrite scenario is not likely, as most software would just stop accepting new mails until capacity was freed up.

This whole issue has been addressed in the massive requirements put forth for record retention of emails / IM's / documents under Sarbanes Oxaley.

sylvia

If you really loved me, you'd love me even when I didn't agree with you. But, I am willing to forgive and forget, because you have been nice all the other times.

And now off to the library.

SlimGuy

Sylvia

Say hi to Katie Couric for us won't ya.

Jeff Dobbs

If you really loved me, you'd love me even when I didn't agree with you.


Tom said to ignore you. I say that was an act of love, given the available alternatives.

Or at least compassion.

And in any event, infinite patience.

SlimGuy

For example 5 million messages even at a generous size of 1.5 meg per email to account for attachments would only result in 7.5 meg of storage requirements. That wouldn't touch the capacity of a 250 gig or above hard drive.

Also long before the server got to full capacity, the admins would be getting trigger warnings to adjust way before this became an issue.

SlimGuy

Math correction total storage would be 7.5 gig not meg.

Any way the available storage is likely more than sufficient.

SlimGuy

Shucks decimal points 7,500 gig. Unless I'm too tired to count decimal points , still a manageable online store or archive number with today's storage capacity.

cathyf
they offer no obvious context for this five million figure - is that 1% of White House emails, 5%, 25%, 50%, or what?
I figure that's 1 million penis enlargement, 1 million breast enlargement, 1 million phony stock tips, 1 million offshore pharmacy ads, and 1 million babelfished Russian erotic novel excerpts...

My coworkers manage a couple of dozen domains (we're web resellers, among other things) and keeping the spam out of the way so that accounts don't bump into disk quotas is a constant battle.

As for Outlook, the servers periodically lose mail. The first symptom is that your pop and imap lists become inconsistent, then within a day or two the entire system collapses. It takes approximately 3-4 days to rebuild the database, and everything that comes in over that period is lost. The microsoft-fellating IT dept at my husband's place of work goes through this about every 6 months or so. (He has his own mail servers that run on SMTP. Which is free, simply works, and never has these problems.)

Sara

Sylvia: Take my advice and stay off the Duke threads at JOM and that way you won't see how otherwise intelligent nice people go alittle nuts. If you are in for self-abuse go to DU, KOS, or FDL. Your blood pressure will stay lower, you'll live longer, and you won't be so apt to want to beat the dog when you log off. One who speaks from experience.

SlimGuy

Lady Sara

I could see ya lovin a dog to death.

Maybe kill the monitor but never beat a dog in your case.

Just doesn't fit somehow.

Lew Clark

I did an exhaustive analysis of this issue and have come to an unassailable conclusion. Since the analysis is rather lengthy, I didn't post it here, but sent it to everyone in an email. just pull up that email, and all your questions will be answered.

Daniel DiRito

See a pithy tongue-in-cheek visual that skewers Karl Rove and the Bush administration's disregard for accountability...here:

www.thoughttheater.com

Sara

True Slim. My pets are my babies and I've always preferred their company to humans.

Maybeex

cathyf- heh.

Somewhere in the executive office must be the person getting the emails from "the people", no? I wonder how many jillions of constituent emails the WH gets every day.

Sara

I have been watching the TV1 30th anniversary of the Alex Halley TV movie "Roots," which I haven't seen since the original broadcast. I'd forgotten how good it is.

Other Tom

My bold prediction is that outside the beltway and the MSNBC crazies, this thing will have as much traction as the tires on the '47 Ford I drove in high school.

Poppy

As a devotee of the lefts thinking, let me explain exactly what CREW belives occurred here.

The White House does not used servers and hard drives to store their e-mails, as we know. The e-mails are kept in Karl Rove's wizard hat and can be deleted with a simply spell from him or his dark alter ego, Richard Baby Hater Cheney. Now since Rove can delete all e-mails at any time due to his facsist bargain with the devil. We know that Rove and Cheney are colluding to hasten global warming so the devil can roam the earth freely and Rove can declare himself President for life.

Therefore Rove most likely just threaten Fitzgerald that he would suffocate a hundred puppies if he pursued the e-mail issue, and Fitzgeral backed down to save the poor puppies lives, because he knew Rove wouldn't hessitate to kill a puppy after carrying out 9/11 with the help of the Jews.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

Sara

75,000 Voter Cards Found In Atlanta Dumpster

April 14, 2007

ATLANTA (AP) — The Georgia Secretary of State’s office has begun an investigation into who threw more than 75,000 Fulton County voter registration cards into a trash bin.

The cards contained a voter’s full name, address and Social Security number. The office says a random sampling showed many of the cards were for active voters.

In a statement, Secretary of State Karen Handel said the finding “represents a significant and serious breach of the personal information of Fulton County voters and an outrageous violation of the trust and integrity of Fulton County’s elections.”

After getting a call from a resident, officials with Handel’s office found more than 30 boxes of voter registration application cards, precinct cards and other documents Monday in a construction trash bin at Atlanta Technical College in southwest Atlanta.

Handel has called in the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the county solicitor general’s office to investigate and says she will audit the county elections office.

Handel says she also has asked the County Commiss

Maybeex

TM- if you don't agree with the conspiracy, it must be that you are having trouble reading.

Boghie

Has anyone thought to ask Senator John Kerry for his EMail archives...

If the Republican National Committee (a reelection committee) must archive their email under Federal guidance, than certainly the Democrat National Committee must do the same...

Maybe there is something of interest in those archives...

Or maybe, we will find a bunch of those emails 'deleted' as well!!!

If Rove wanted to hide his activities do any of you think it would be on an organizational mail system ran by any Republican reelection organization. He could have used the Heritage foundation email system or any of the like. Even better, a front organization which is designed to go bankrupt and physically destroy their hardware on demand from The One Who Rules Them All). He could have created hundreds of Yahoo email accounts. He could have used some Iraqi, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or French ISP as well…

Has anyone thought that maybe some government mandated privacy ruling might also require email deletion after a reasonable period – like three years…

Stupid, real stupid.

Sara

Entertainer Don Ho Dead at 76

topsecretk9

but I may as well be thinking about scribes and papyrus. HEH

Entertainer Don Ho Dead at 76

Bizzzzzare, I am listening to "Tiny Bubbles" RIGHT NOW!

topsecretk9

RATS RATS RATS....sorry for the open tag.

topsecretk9

Has anyone thought that maybe some government mandated privacy ruling might also require email deletion after a reasonable period – like three years…

UM...and TM will find this refresher delightful....If you recall, the Department of State said during the Libby trial that they only kept copies of emails for 30 days and then destroyed them --this had to do with Grossman and Armitage I think , in any event can't remember all the specifics, but I think it came about when Woodward came forward and it also had to do with Grossman and Armitage communications) -- I know they then took Armitage's wife's home computer or some such

Anyways - when this shocking detail came up during the trial --that DOS destroys all backed-up emails after 30 days --Emptywheel blew a gasket and was OUTRAGED at the DOS policy -------> kidding!

topsecretk9

This is so stupid. I have been reading around and I haven't seen where a crime has been committed that any emails are necessary for - it sounds like they are desperately trying to recreate the Nixon secretary tape without a crime...is it a crime to delete emails? Cuz i do it by the boatload on a daily basis - I get so much junk mail and recently was really deficient that I had let it get to something like 14,000...I didn't care what was deleted I just deleted them all - it's too tiresome to try and sort through.

But no matter, I just can't get past all these bright lights who themselves don't manage their actual mail severs believing Rove is so fantastic that he has all these special talents -- like managing to maintain years worth of savable emails on mainframes and then deleting the ones where he talks about his Hurricane machine.

Also, I can't help it --- but it sounds like Crew's **snitch** is the one who has committed a crime.

I hope they have it all on back-up and this snitch was set up in an access sting.

lurker9876

I don't believe this!!!

Soros/CREW Demands Fitzgerald Re-Open Case against Karl Rove.

Can you fucking believe this?

lurker9876

I'm with Fred Thompson that Libby is innocent. There was no crime, no intent, no opportunity, no motive, etc.

lurker9876

RiehlWorld agrees with Thompson, too.

Season Of The Witch Hunt

Maybeex

lurker- I'm sure it has nothing to do with the civil case against Rove in which CREW is representing the Wilsons.

lurker9876

RiehlWorld agrees with Thompson, too.

Season Of The Witch Hunt

topsecretk9

90 days.

Correct.

WRT your initial meeting with Mr. Libby, you have no notes that reflect that you had such a meeting?

Nope.

There are no witnesses to your knowledge.

You have not one piece of paper that such a meeting took place. You said you informed Kansteiner and Ford, correct?

You said you would have sent emails to them.

And the emails have been destroyed?

Grossman: I don't think they're missing. State Department only kept emails through 90 days.

[Jesus, doesn't the govt archive this stuff??]

You cannot point to any documents that reflect that you advised Kansteiner and Ford.

9:40

Empty above
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/24/libby-liveblog-wells-cross-examines-grossman/


However, I love this commenter from the above

Cranky Observer says: January 24th, 2007 at 6:56 am > Routine emails, I could believe it. Remember, > the Federal Government is incredibly backward > in computer technology in general.

Actually, the more “backward” e-mail systems (that is, those that have their design roots in the 1980-1990 time period) generally have better facilities for control and archiving than more “modern” systems (try legally archiving your Gmail some time). But there were also often set up to enforce official document retention policies (see above).

It seems obvious to the e-mail-addicted that e-mail is automatically an official document and should automatically be retained forever. Deeper investigation of the problem will reveal that it is not that straightforward.

Cranky

Or this

Pat_AlexVA @ 57

The State Department has a shiny new e-mail system circa 2006. So their new e-mail system is DOS wide, and incorperates archive / retention / search. But what’s relevant is what State had at the time. Sarbanes Oxley requirements are irrelevant.

I suspect that they have backup / archive of State e-mail. I also suspect Grossman would not know / care about these IT details.

I agree.

Email archive systems are COMPLEX and, having implemented a few, I doubt Grossman (a typical non-IT user) would know details.

I would not be surprised at a 90-day retention policy at the time. Many gov’t IT facilities are isolated little islands that get what they can sneak into their budgets. Until SOX came out, email archive was not a top priority for a lot of financial environments. It’s a relatively new concept for a LOT of businesses.

clarice

I have an experiment in mind. Why not ask IRS to investigate CREW's tax exempt status.?For example, why is tax exemptmoney (i/e/ tax funds in effect) being used to pursue the WIlson/Plame civil suit; why is CREW's work almost exclusively aimed at Dems? In the course of that we demand that all docs and correspondence, including all emails to the Hill and the DNC and the press be produced, and we'll find out how seriously to take the left's claims that the only way emails could be misarchived or lost was deliberate doc destruction.

Maybeex

good idea, clarice.
How much cooperation has there been between Conyers, Waxman, and Crew?
Who gave Crew this information-- did it come from Fitzgerald's investigation?

We need their emails, and I mean ALL of them. From the Congressional staffs, the DNC, their re-election committees, and maybe even their personal home email account. One never knows where the illicit doings might have taken place.

cathyf
My bold prediction is that outside the beltway and the MSNBC crazies, this thing will have as much traction as the tires on the '47 Ford I drove in high school.
Well, given who the "MS" in "MSNBC" is, if it turns out that the missing email was lost in one of the Outlook-typical database corruptions, then MSNBC could adopt the "move along nothing to see here folks" attitude towards the story. Google "Outlook database corruption" if you want to know what I mean... Here is a little taste:
EXCHANGE SERVER ADMINISTRATION TIPS Repairing Exchange Server database corruption Brien M. Posey 09.08.2005 Rating: -4.11- (out of 5)

VIEW MEMBER FEEDACK TO THIS TIP

I recently received an e-mail from an administrator in a bad situation. He had an Exchange 2003 server with a corrupted mailbox store. He wanted to repair the store, but was hesitant to do so for a couple of reasons.

For starters, he knew that if his mailbox store contained corrupted data, then his backups probably did too. This being the case, there was no guarantee that he would be able to restore the backups if something went wrong.

His was also worried about the unpredictable nature of ESEUTIL. When ESEUTIL is used to repair a corrupted database, it deletes anything it doesn't understand. Going in, there's no way to know how much data is going to be lost.

topsecretk9

Wait...if a Government body can request emails of a political organization, can't a citizen or citizen group (CREW, You and me) ask the same of the DNC in the form of a FOIA request?

Or even a political campaign - Kerry 04? I mean I THINK Kerry 04 has some interesting email - I'd also like their cell phone bills - particularly Joe Lockhart's - since he took a call from some old no body Koot in Texas to line-up the Tang memos -- that's enough for me?

Or any emails between Bruce Lindsey and Sandy Berger or Bill Clinton or his surrogates - the Archive called Bruce Lindsey - not the DOJ - when they noticed Berger was ripping off America and planting out doc in dead drops.

OR any emails between CREW - who receives tax EXEMPT non-profit status - do they have any emails between them and John Conyers office? Chuck- who heads up the DSCC?

Or, I'd like to see the emails Chuck and his staffers and DSCC staffers sent , internally, his office between DNC when he stole Michele Steele's personal information ( like the one when she asked what to do with Steeles's social and her high up staffer said "go to this credit site, pay for the report with our credit card - and here are more pointers on what to do ala Schumer)-- how he coordinated to have the fall girl's legal fees paid for by said committee ?


Hmmmm? Someone set up a paypal who knows how to do the FOIA requests....NOW!

SunnyDay

I'm in. However I can help. This is a truly worthy enterprise.

topsecretk9

OH and while the left tinfiols up - the Clinton Library has refused ALLLLLLLLLLL requests for information regarding Sandy Berger's dead drop escapades - so...forget all that pretend outrage.

OH...and Ronnie Earles's office too....Landmark Legal immediately did a FOIA request for all phone logs and communications and Earle fought it (I do NOT KNOW what Ronnie Earle has to hide!!!!! that he would HIDE such a routine request other than Joe Lockehart's cell phone number - and i thinks it's still hung up in appeal.

Maybeex

I know I started up my computer a few weeks ago, only to find that every email for the past two calendar years was gone. I'm just a user, I have no idea how it happened, I know I didn't do anything to make it happen, but it did.
I'm having trouble determining how this whole missing emails (in a non-crime) has become a conspiracy of active involvement by people in the WH. If there is a problem, it is at the archivist end.

As TS points out, CREW was obviously looking for something in their capacity of Plame civil case attorneys, and has managed to turn this into something nefarious WH email system USERS did.

Lew Clark

Since the Presidential Records Act (PRA) is being kicked around in all this, I finally got around to looking it up and guess what:

"The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2207, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents created or received after January 20, 1981. The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of the President from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents must manage their records."

This was a post-Watergate law and established the ownership of OFFICIAL records of the President and Vice President to be public. By that law, the Pres/VP can't gather up all their stuff and lock it away, but must make it open to the public. But get the "official records" part.
Emails coming and going from anyone in the administration are not official records of the President/VP per se.
The reason this caught my attention is that I thought back on my 35 years in the federal government. Before email, there was no requirement to file copies of correspondence anywhere. Official documents were filed. Those documents often came in the mail, but it was the document, not the fact it came in the mail that dictated it's retention.
When email came along, same thing. Email was correspondence between two (or more) individuals. It was the right/responsibility of the sender/receiver to determine what would and would not be retained. And it was the content, not the fact it was an email that required it's retention. Our emails were kept on a common server, and an investigative agency could request copies of all emails on the server. But that would be under the same auspices as a wire tap. A belief that something was being transmitted through email that shouldn't be. Those emails were deleted periodically and it was the responsibility of the recipient to assure copies of required records were retained.

Long story short. I don't think there is any requirement to keep emails for any period of time either in government agencies or in the White House. I think this is another case of a law being thrown out as being violated by "Bushco", hoping that no one will actually read the law.

clarice

Sorry TS FOIA only applies to the govt. The IRS will just hae to get involved and subpoena this stuff from CREW.

topsecretk9

OK

Conyer's isn't Government?

clarice

Interesting Lew. I'd have to check that out.
Sreve GIlbert reminds us of the fact that CREW sat on the innocuous emails and said nothing public about them until Fla law made it impossible to select a replacement for the ballot.

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/sorosdncs-crew-demands-fitzgerald-re-open-case>CREW

clarice

I think Congress set it up so it doesn't apply to them. Neither does the equal employment act or most other things.

topsecretk9

Dammit, can't find it now...but someone left a reference to a 502 or 503 statue violation that i was able to dig up regarding unauthorized or illegally obtaining electronic data - weird that it was right before this...

topsecretk9

When email came along, same thing. Email was correspondence between two (or more) individuals.

Um...did the DNC record all Bruce Lindsey's phone conversation to all Dem operatives to archive them since this was a schoosh before email -- that replaced OCD phone?

Hmmm?

Seriously, how stupid it's gotten. I bet Bill and Hill and really all Dem runners are smacking their head that Empty's and co have gotten ahold of their party.

topsecretk9

Melanie sloan says:

“It looks like Karl Rove may well have destroyed evidence that implicated him in the White House’s orchestrated efforts to leak Valerie Plame Wilson’s covert identity to the press in retaliation against her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson.” Sloan continued, “Special Counsel Fitzgerald should immediately reopen his investigation into whether Rove took part in the leak as well as whether he obstructed justice in the ensuing leak investigation.”Which Judge smacked her on the face for making prejudicial public statements, what is Walton?

Anyhow, if i were the Civil judge it wouldn't sit well with me - trying to try it in the public when you just argued your poor movie deal privacy hounds were damaged.

clarice

ts, it wasn't Walton. It was the judge assigned to the civil suit.

SlimGuy

TS9Excellent post on the summary of the Dems 1st 100 days over at Flopping Aces

Neville Nancy's 100 Days of Shame!

topsecretk9

It was indeed the civil judge who has been consitently unimpressed with her attempts at showboating...

Walter pointed out the judges ruling that was smart enough not t buy into their "no address: request, being all ethically and all///he said in the address insted of "I" street - "Eye" street - as in "i've gt my "eye" on you ethichs watchdg.

Well, well, well...CREW is so "ethical"

Other CREW officials have similarly deep ties to the political Left. For example, Deputy Director and Communications Director Naomi Seligman Steiner was formerly the Communications Director of Media Matters for America. CREW Special Projects Associate Lida Masoudpour was once a staffer at Media Matters and served as an intern in the office of Senator Hillary Clinton.

Okay....

According to a statement signed by the defendant and the government, in 2005, Lauren B. Weiner (“Weiner”) worked at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (“DSCC”) as a research associate. In early July 2005, Weiner was conducting public records searches on Maryland’s Lt. Governor Michael S. Steele (“Lt. Gov. Steele”), someone then rumored to be a possible Republican candidate for a U.S. Senate seat from Maryland. Weiner found records regarding Lt. Gov. Steele and, in these records, Lt. Gov. Steele’s Social Security number. Weiner spoke with her immediate supervisor, the research director at DSCC (“research director”) about how she might use a Social Security number to pull up more information. The research director told Weiner that they could get his financial information and suggested using the Social Security number to “check his credit.”

First, Weiner attempted to access a web site offering a credit report from Experian. The web site requested Lt. Gov. Steele’s driver’s license number, which Weiner did not know. Weiner then asked the research director what to do; the research director told Weiner to try another site which did not require the driver’s license number. Weiner found the site to TransUnion, which offers the ability to have consumers order their own credit report. Weiner inputted information as if she were Lt. Gov. Steele; for example, she typed in his name, address, date of birth, Social Security number. Weiner even registered with TransUnion as Lt. Gov. Steele by inventing a password, and answering a “secret question” if she were to forget the password. At the point where the application requested an “email” account, Weiner typed in “[email protected].” Weiner, in fact, had created this email account by registering the account, “[email protected]”, with Yahoo! from her DSCC computer on July 12, 2005, by completing the required fields with Lt. Gov. Steele’s name and address. (Weiner did not tell the research director that she created an email account for Lt. Gov. Steele)....

Essentiall, she screwed up and did a traceable way.

Later that same day, the research director notified her supervisors at DSCC that Weiner had obtained Lt. Gov. Steele’s credit report. The supervisors ordered Weiner, through the research director, to immediately destroy the credit report, which she did the following morning. The next day the supervisors reported to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia that Weiner had obtained Lt. Gov. Steele’s credit report. Weiner, and the DSCC, did not use Lt. Gov. Steele’s credit report for any financial or political purpose. No economic loss resulted from Weiner’s actions. Weiner cooperated with the investigating agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), including by disclosing details of her offense to a special agent with the FBI.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/dc/Press_Releases/2006_Archives/Mar_2006/06122.html

Anyhow....

Katie Barge was Research Director at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee until she resigned the post in November 2005 when under investigation as to whether Maryland Republican senate candidate Michael Steele's credit report had been illegally obtained. [1]

Previously she had been research director at Media Matters for America. Barge "brings a wealth of research experience to Media Matters for America from the range of research positions she has held on presidential, gubernatorial, and senatorial campaigns. Most recently she worked in the research department on Senator John Edwards' presidential campaign. Barge is a graduate of Wesleyan University." [2]

Yes, I knew there was a seedy connection.

clarice

Are you confusing Weiner with Steiner, ts?

topsecretk9

No, I am impling the same dots the left does

CREW Deputy Director and Communications Director Communications Director Naomi Seligman Steiner was formerly the Communications Director of Media Matters for America.

CREW Special Projects Associate Lida Masoudpour was once a staffer at Media Matters and served as an intern in the office of Senator Hillary Clinton.

• Katie Barge Previously she had been research director at Media Matters for America. was Research Director at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee [under Schumer] until she resigned the post in November 2005 when under investigation as to whether Maryland Republican senate candidate Michael Steele's credit report had been illegally obtained. [1]

Weiner spoke with her immediate supervisor, the research directorat DSCC (“research director”) about how she might use a Social Security number to pull up more information. The research director told Weiner that they could get his financial information and suggested using the Social Security number to “check his credit.”
topsecretk9

Media Matters - CREW - unethical

clarice

I see, ts..sorry I had missed it as originally written.

clarice

But are you sure Weiner was Steiner's immediate supervisor at the time in question?

topsecretk9

Really? I don't think you are alone, ahem I think that's obvious, but occasionally I make it through.

Thanks for prodding me to make it understandable!

topsecretk9

Clarice, not sure I implied that - just an obvious cozy relationship with MM and CREW and the Dem's


In 1994, Ms. Sloan served as Counsel for the Crime Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee, chaired by then-Representative Charles Schumer (D-NY). There, she drafted portions of the 1994 Crime Bill, including the Violence Against Women Act. In 1993, Ms. Sloan served as Nominations Counsel to the Senate Judiciary Committee, under then-Chairman, Senator Joe Biden (D-DE). Prior to serving in Congress, she was an associate at Howrey and Simon in Washington, D.C. and at Sonnenschein, Nath and Rosenthal in Los Angeles, California. Ms. Sloan received her B.A. and J.D. from the University of Chicago and has published in the Yale Law and Policy Review, Legal Times, The Washington Post, and the San Diego Union-Tribune.

Naomi Seligman Steiner, Deputy Director and Communications Director
Naomi Seligman Steiner serves as CREW's Deputy Director and Communications Director. She has worked extensively as a communications professional, developing and managing media strategies for campaigns, elected officials and nonprofit organizations. Prior to joining CREW, Ms. Seligman Steiner was the communications director for the nonprofit, media watchdog group, Media Matters for America. She also has served as the communications director for the Violence Policy Center, a gun control organization, and has acted as press secretary in House and Senate offices and as director of outreach for the House Small Business Committee. Ms. Seligman Steiner received her B.A. from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst.

Anne L. Weismann, Chief Counsel
Anne Weismann serves as CREW’s Chief Counsel at CREW. Prior to joining CREW, Ms. Weismann served as Deputy Chief of the Enforcement Bureau at the Federal Communications Commission, where she had responsibility for all of the Bureau's telecommunications matters. Before that, she worked in the Civil Division of the Department of Justice. She also has worked in the Solicitor's Office of the Department of Labor, where she served as an Assistant Branch Director with supervisory responsibility over banking litigation, housing litigation, and from 1995 until 2002, all government information litigation. This included litigation under the Freedom of Information Act, the Privacy Act, the Federal Advisory Committee Act and statutes governing presidential records. Ms. Weismann received her B.A. magna cum laude from Brown University and her J.D. from George Washington University’s National Law Center.

SORRY...do the "ethic" math - Schumer through the staff who threw Weiner under a freight train because she screwed up - it was traceable !!!! and all these interconnected people are from Media Matters - committing crimes and then onto CREW - did CREW demand a SP or any investigation for the Schemer crime?

clarice

You just see connections far faster than I can, ts..and you are more often right than not..I'm just trying to keep up/

It would make the story more juicy if Weiner had been Steiner's boss though.

Sara

A Letter Is No Substitute for a Personal Chat, Waxman Tells Rice

By Al Kamen

The tussling between Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, shows no signs of letting up.
topsecretk9

--It would make the story more juicy if Weiner had been Steiner's boss though.--

I don't think that is far fetched, do you?

Deputy Director and Communications Director Naomi Seligman Steiner was formerly the Communications Director of Media Matters for America.

Katie Barge Previously she had been research director at Media Matters for America


----

Why can't someone call Brock and ask him to produce the timetable?

I mean - Brock is into the truth now right?

I tell you, Brock has become a grotesque caricature of what he professed to be against.

Cool with me though.

clarice

It is a good idea. Interesting no reporter has done so or even explored the multiple links w/ media matters.

topsecretk9

Clarice

The "Steele" incident took plce in "2005"

Media Matters for America is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization founded in 2004 by formerly conservative (now liberal) journalist and author David Brock; it is an organization that hosts a website featuring watchdog journalism. Media Matters for America describes itself as "a web-based, not-for-profit, progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media." Media Matters for America defines "conservative misinformation" as "news or commentary presented in the media that is not accurate, reliable, or credible and that forwards the conservative agenda."[1]

It was founded in 2004

Deputy Director and Communications Director Naomi Seligman Steiner was formerly the Communications Director of Media Matters for America.

Katie Barge Previously she had been research director at Media Matters for America

They worked together - closely is the message that can be taken from the timeframe and operational level here..1 year.

clarice

I've passed this on to someone to look at. If he can't. I'll ask someone else or do it myself, ts.

SlimGuy

Some other stuff on CREW from a good site for research jump off point

Discovery the Networks - CREW Page

CREW has received financial backing from George Soros's Open Society Institute, Democracy Alliance, the Tides Foundation, the Streisand Foundation, the Arca Foundation, the David Geffen Foundation, the Wallace Global Fund, the Mayberg Family Charitable Foundation, the Woodbury Fund, and the Sheller Family Foundation -- all institutions distinguished by their support for far-left causes.

CREW's Executive Director is Melanie Sloan, a longtime Democrat operative who previously served as Nominations Counsel for Joe Biden's Senate Judiciary Committee (1993); Counsel for the Crime Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee for Charles Schumer (1994); Minority Counsel for the U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee under John Conyers (1995-1998); and Assistant U.S. District Attorney for the District of Columbia (1998-2003).

Other CREW officials have similarly deep ties to the political Left. For example, Deputy Director and Communications Director Naomi Seligman Steiner was formerly the Communications Director of Media Matters for America. CREW Special Projects Associate Lida Masoudpour was once a staffer at Media Matters and served as an intern in the office of Senator Hillary Clinton. CREW Senior Counsel Tim Mooney previously served as Senior Counsel at Alliance for Justice (AFJ). CREW Counsel Dan Roth was formerly the Dorot Judicial Selection Fellow at AFJ. CREW Research Associate Robin Powers is a former Program Associate of AFJ who interned with Vital Voices Global Partnership and the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois. CREW Counsel Kimberly Perkins once worked as the Assistant General Counsel for the National Office of the NAACP, where she led the "Voting Rights & Redistricting Project" and "Election Protection" efforts. CREW Executive Assistant Melissa Cuerdon, who previously worked in the pharmaceutical industry, served internships at the Sierra Club and the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN).

For a small organization they have been involved in

Tom Delay
Mark Foley
Affair De Plame

From my viewpoint they are noting but the lead hatchet man group for the Soros mafia

topsecretk9

Clarice

Good, cuz they both worked for an organization that was only in operation a year before a crime happened...Katie Barge is the one who told the underling to

The research directorv [Katie Barge] told Weiner that they could get his financial information and suggested using the Social Security number to “check his credit.”
..


CREW Deputy Director and Communications Director Naomi Seligman Steiner was formerly the Communications Director of Media Matters for America.

Media Matters for America is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization founded in 2004

Micheal Steele's info was stolen in July 2005


Well, they weren't there long or they are both way overblowing their resumes. Communications director for 2 minutes gets you DC media kudos time?

SlimGuy

During my Foley research, I was able to make many connections of multiple links between CREW, the Tides Foundation, all the going's on at the Presedio and the Pelosi involvement in that mess.

Soros and his group of supporters that put together moveon and media matters and CREW have multiple links in a web of tied together mutual supporting groups.

Also tied in strongly into the whole mix is Fenton Communications.

All in all a bundle of coordinated effort to set their specific agenda and plan of attack.

SlimGuy

From a Newsmax interview of Tom Delay

NewsMax: So you think the media plays much more of a part than in the past?

DeLay: No doubt about it. They are now either directly or indirectly working with the left. I have never seen it in my entire political career as bad as it is right now. They don't even try to hide behind objectivity. It's now a blatant upfront in your face. Another thing they have done is put together a huge powerful political coalition mainly designed by what I call the "Clinton Mafia." This is a well-coordinated coalition of over 700 organizations. It is incredibly well funded and it coordinates with the media … It is a very impressive political coalition.

topsecretk9

---It is incredibly well funded and it coordinates with the media … It is a very impressive political coalition.---

Sad part is they aren't even embarrassed by it -- put Dan Froomkin on the top or the coordinated Townhouse Email message heap - shit Froomkin writes the outgoing for them. WAPO underwrites it obviously.

SlimGuy

So the picture develops that we have two teams or mafia groups of the political type that are on the left.

The Soros mafia and the Clinton mafia.

Generally they are in agreement with their objectives overall, but fighting an inside war for control of the message and the agenda.

Later in the Newsmax interview Delay did, he talks about the lack of a similar broad reaching equivalent on the right.

So many times we treat each issue of the day in isolation no matter how long it endures in the public eye.

But if you back off and look at the overall picture you see a tie in of recurring groups of influence and linkages between them and patterns develop.

Worse you very seldom get a good piece of commentary by the known pundits that even give a broad overview of the effect they are having on the political landscape.

topsecretk9

But if you back off and look at the overall picture you see a tie in of recurring groups of influence and linkages between them and patterns develop.

Dems ALWAYS accuse what they are guilty of doing - they've coordinated this particular line of attack via email - and prolly destroyed the said emails in the process and worked out a "work around" so they don't have to worry about this.

I'm still working on the belief they've obtained illegal data - they same kind they cry themselves to sleep at night that a known terror suspect's privacy non-rights violated.

I'll try and dredge up the article that indicated many of the Leaks - in a round about way - may be to "cover" the whistle-blower.

If you take all leaks as a whole

1. NSA telecomm - who many citizens ARE talking to terrorists

2. SWIFT - How many US citizen were/are conducting biz with terrorists

3. Prisons - what will the captured reveal?

and now we have email

4. Who obtained RNC email data - why? Kill the program - 1, 2, 3, 4.

SlimGuy

TS9

If you look for example at just one bit of the coordinated picture for example lets take Fenton Communications.

If you look at their client list you will see a who's who of left groups that they use to provide a ready source of guests for all the talking head shows to drive their message.

Review the history of Fenton from it's founding and it is a wake up call kind of thing that is way off the radar of the average person. Heck mention their name at a political gathering in conversation even and all you get is "Who".

SlimGuy

TS9

If you look for example at just one bit of the coordinated picture for example lets take Fenton Communications.

If you look at their client list you will see a who's who of left groups that they use to provide a ready source of guests for all the talking head shows to drive their message.

Review the history of Fenton from it's founding and it is a wake up call kind of thing that is way off the radar of the average person. Heck mention their name at a political gathering in conversation even and all you get is "Who".

SlimGuy

Sorry for the double post, but the site gave me a server busy overload message when I tried to post and when I reloaded a few minutes later the original copy didn't show, so I did not think it went thru.

SlimGuy

Having a lot of issues with the net tonight even though at this time of the morning it has lighter traffic.

Guess the storm front is raising a bit of routing problems and a lot of headaches for the IT staffs at the server farms.

SlimGuy

Just took a look at one stand alone computer I have here on my local area network that is dedicated to monitoring the health of all my net connections.

The latest report trends show a lot of issue with the net tonight.

Lots of lost packets and many retries to access sites my spider servers troll for data.

Many sites I commonly use show via trace routes that they are having to be routed in ways that significantly differ from the normal path of hops between here and there.

SlimGuy

For example one blog was down for a while I read.

Ace of Spades had this to say

Severe Weather Warning!

Sorry about that, folks. We got taken out by the storms in the DFW area.

Actually, the storms passed uneventfully, but our hosting company had switched to backup power in case the grid went out. With the storms past, they switched back to the grid - and a 2500 amp circuit breaker blew.

Not good.

Update: Um, and comments are back now too.

SlimGuy

I have more than a passing interest in when the net has health issues.

That is the reason for the puter that monitors that situation.

I trade in the background on the international currency markets so that is an issue for me.

About 2:30 this morning one of my servers dedicated to this that works on doing arbitrage of price mismatches between the various trading portals got locked out from all of them and got stuck for over seven minutes with no trade lock out and when the paths healed I got tagged for about a 9K loss due to non execution.

The net health computer was handshaking to my server warning of the issue but it was too late to recover.

Now the arbitrage server has to play mother may I with the net health server before placing trades until the issue heals.

SlimGuy

At least the net health server did it's job that it stands for and captured all the data over the time interval with all the failed pings and trace routes and sent and email to the trading desk to document why it is requesting a trade invalidation due to net failure.

Checked and got an email reply to the message and the trade has been reversed.

Love it when a plan comes together.

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Wilson/Plame