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April 01, 2007



Attacks and casualties in Iraq are DOWN Scroll down,follow links.

Those perpetrating the atrocities in Iraq are Hezbollah,al Qods and Iranian military units as well as al Qaeda and homegrown terrorists.
Now if Henry Waxman would only go to Iraq and perform oversight on these multifarious murderers there might be progress.



I won't argue with that. Now can "WE" actually help them get to that point? How?

By doing what we and the Iraqi government are doing! It's a process, not an event.

Political negotiations with insurgent groups and militias (not al Qaeda though---they don't negotiate) are moving the militants bit by bit into the political process and more and more sunni insurgent groups are being convinced that al Qaeda is NOT their ally and thus they are actually killing al qaeda members and/or turning them in.

Both the mahdi and the insurgents have split into many sub-groups which makes it easier to deal with them both politically and militarily.

It takes time. We need time. As I said, it's a process not an event.


Now can "WE" actually help them get to that point? How?

According to the manual we do that by 'buying time' for the new government, new military, and new police forces of Iraq, so that they can train and weed out the bad apples.
In the mean time they will also be building the logistics capabilities and infrastructure necessary to carry on when we are gone.



WE are still involved because though the Iraqi army is getting better and better, they still need our logistics and backup.

We also are needed to teach them and help them to maintain discipline in their forces. If we were to leavr too soon, there's a damn good chance discipline will break down and everyone with a gun in Iraq will be targetting everyone else.

Bush was very clear to Maliki about what he should be doing and so far Maliki has mostly stepped up to the plate--including cleaning out two ministries.

So if anyone claims we're trying only for a military solution they're full of it. We're working closely with the Iraqi and local govts.


And now those supporting that case are left making the point that the parts came from Iran. Get it?
Posted by: Looking_for_a_way_out | April 02, 2007 at 05:42 PM

No. You are trying to make the point that the military is trying to refute any "case for war with iran". Your assertion does not make that point at all. You believe, apparently, that the military should or would lie about what they find if they were not opposed to a war in iran. It's completely silly. You know what result you want and you are making up "evidence".


"So if anyone claims we're trying only for a military solution they're full of it."

I agree that the solution isn't military. 28 million to 170,000 the odds are lopsided. Are there any options that might soothe the situation more quickly? Aren't we basically playing whack a mole with our troops now? Last year Tal Afar was the shining example, last week 160 dead in one attack there, then 70 killed in retribution. How many times have we fought over Fallujah? The Iraq government can't control the ground where our military isn't. Can we succeed in this manner or do we need a more profound change in strategy?

To put it another way, the Iraqi government needs legitimacy. If its only ability to enforce policy is to rely on an occupying army, it will find gaining legitimacy impossible. And, if we leave the situation will devolve and everyone knows it. This seems like an impossible catch 22. Do we have any other options? How did we get into this situation?


Can we succeed in this manner or do we need a more profound change in strategy?

Such as?


"28 million to 170,000 the odds are lopsided."

What a pillock!

Sue>This took longer than I expected. It's Bush's fault, doncha know.


How did we get into this situation?
Posted by: Looking_for_a_way_out | April 02, 2007 at 09:08 PM

By not dealing with the number one terrorist regime in the world, iran. End the terrorist iranian regime, end the terror in iraq.


No. You are trying to make the point that the military is trying to refute any "case for war with iran".

I am speculating that the military would like to make it difficult for the Administration to make "a case for war with Iran". Do you think the U.S. Army would relish a war with Iran at this time, with the trouble they have in Iraq, not to mention the 170,000 personnel on the ground in Iraq?

Its just pure speculation. I like conspiracy theories. I've just always had that feeling that there are people within DoD and the Intelligence communities that would prefer not to fight these wars. The whole CIA sending Wilson to Niger fits nicely with that reasoning.


I don't think the US military ever "relishes" war.

"Its just pure speculation."



Sorry about the length,

" U.S. Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) announced today that they are introducing legislation that will effectively end the current military mission in Iraq and begin the redeployment of U.S. forces. The bill requires the President to begin safely redeploying U.S. troops from Iraq 120 days from enactment, as required by the emergency supplemental spending bill the Senate passed last week. The bill ends funding for the war, with three narrow exceptions, effective March 31, 2008.

“I am pleased to cosponsor Senator Feingold’s important legislation,” Reid said. “I believe it is consistent with the language included in the supplemental appropriations bill passed by a bipartisan majority of the Senate. If the President vetoes the supplemental appropriations bill and continues to resist changing course in Iraq, I will work to ensure this legislation receives a vote in the Senate in the next work period.”

“I am delighted to be working with the Majority Leader to bring our involvement in the Iraq war to an end,” Feingold said. “Congress has a responsibility to end a war that is opposed by the American people and is undermining our national security. By ending funding for the President’s failed Iraq policy, our bill requires the President to safely redeploy our troops from Iraq.”

The language of the legislation reads:

(a) Transition of Mission - The President shall promptly transition the mission of United States forces in Iraq to the limited purposes set forth in subsection (d).

(b) Commencement of Safe, Phased Redeployment from Iraq - The President shall commence the safe, phased redeployment of United States forces from Iraq that are not essential to the purposes set forth in subsection (d). Such redeployment shall begin not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.

(c) Prohibition on Use of Funds - No funds appropriated or otherwise made available under any provision of law may be obligated or expended to continue the deployment in Iraq of members of the United States Armed Forces after March 31, 2008.

(d) Exception for Limited Purposes - The prohibition under subsection (c) shall not apply to the obligation or expenditure of funds for the limited purposes as follows:

(1) To conduct targeted operations, limited in duration and scope, against members of al Qaeda and other international terrorist organizations.

(2) To provide security for United States infrastructure and personnel.

(3) To train and equip Iraqi security services.

[my emphasis]
Via Jeff Goldstein.

Vietnam or Bust!


GREGORY: But as a—whatever the peril, as a political matter, is the president going to be pressured to account at some level for his very harsh statements about anybody who peddled classified information to discredit a war critic?

I keep shaking my head in wonder over Gregory discussing the Plame affair as if he wasn't involved. You know, at some level, it would seem Gregory owes us an explanation as to whether he received the leak or not.


I go to milblogs and sites that talk about military strategy and what is happening in Iraq.

What I find interesting is the comment sections. No lefty bothers to read those blogs.

No wonder they're confused and ask such silly questions and make such STUPID statements...they don't know squat and they don't care.

And don't ask me to link, if you're curious, though I doubt it, find the sites yourselves, dumbasses.


Gregory, Russert, and Cooper. Three political hacks masquerading as "journalists".


If Feingold and Reid get their bill,the most obvious strategy for the major players would be to lie low,build up supplies and munitions,reinforce sleeper cells and wait.I say major players because the nutcases cannot be controlled,but there need not be a shot fired or a bomb detonated,the Iraqis can go back to flying kites for 120 days.It should be enough time to get the refugee camps built across friendly borders.



Just consider the effort to build from scratch a full countries army.

We have our own boot camp system for the various services of military academies in place for officers.

For enlisted people after boot camp we have hundreds of specialty training schools to gain further skills.

The Iraq Army is just now getting to critical mass as far as numbers and only for the most part have skills similar to just out of boot camp.

They have little seasoned officers and senior enlisted in their ranks.

Most of Saddam's army was just basic cannon fodder because he did not want them to pose a threat to him.

It will take time to make them a truly effective force with all the support they need on their own.

All they have now is fighters at the tip of the spear, they have zero logistics support capability.

Their air force consists of a few choppers, some transport aircraft and a few small aircraft for observation and spotter use.

Even if Iraq had unlimited funds to throw at it it takes time for manufactures to make more humvee type vehicles and light tanks and other armor they need to be effective.

There is a lot of work to be done that will just plain take time and you can't shortcut it.

Lady Sara

Iran, Syria, Hizbullah preparing for summer war

Head of IDF intel. Gen. Amos Yadlin says allies are readying a response for possibility of a US military offensive against Iran.


Can some lefty explain to me how our soldiers will be able to determine if someone is AQ or an Iraqi causing trouble? Because Feingold/Reid want our soldiers to remain in Iraq, training their army, fighting AQ and providing security for our personnel and infrastructure. What their proposed bill will do is make potential criminals out of every soldier who fires his weapon. We either fight or come home. I keep thinking they can't really be that stupid, but they manage to prove me wrong, time and again. Craziness...

The whole CIA sending Wilson to Niger fits nicely with that reasoning.

Actually, there are some suspicions surrounding Wilson's business that focused on Africa economy.


The Democrats are too stupid and chicken to fight this war. They think you can negotiate with al Qaeda. Even Islamic states cannot negotiate with al Qaeda! They think you can negotiate with the mullahs who want the same thing al Qaeda does!

Who is fighting rather than joining the new caliphate in Iraq? Other sunni militant groups!

That's exactly what we want!!

So watch the Democrats spoil all that! It's unbelievable. I just don't comprehend these idiots.



Lady Sara, so if Iran, Syria, and Hizbollah are planning to wage war against USA, then what the heck is the Pelosi team doing in Syria and the Gaza strip????

Why were they meeting with Siniora of Lebanon????


They're trying to turn America into U.N. peacekeepers! Feminize us all! Hillary better speak out against this nonsense or she'll never make it to the WhiteHouse!


"then what the heck is the Pelosi team doing in Syria and the Gaza strip????"

Brokering a peace deal which will betray Israel.It's the Sudetenland all over again.


Global Reach, Global Power - Hot Air explains the differences between US Air Force's "Global Reach, Global Power" versus Iran's "Global Reach, Global Power". Pretty scary.

And don't think that the Hizbollah infiltrated into our society after 9/11. They had been for years, long before 9/11.

Aha! Syl, so part of the Democrats' agenda is to turn our own military might to UN!!

Brokering a peace deal which will betray Israel.It's the Sudetenland all over again.

Oh, for heaven's sake, Pelosi just gave a speech in Israel and met or meeting with Ohlmert!!!


The Left Skipping Down The Defeatist Path - Don't believe anything Reid says.


summarized by Big Lizards


Sorry, forgot link:

Herman Option

"Galula likewise realized that civilians played a much greater roll in counterinsurgency than they did in the second war to end all wars, where they were mainly bystanders (or by-victims). Civilians, both government and private individuals, are the counterinsurgent's secret weapon:

Without the help or at least the passive acquiescence of the local population, the government would be doomed. In a crucial sense, it did not matter how many guerrillas were killed, or how many regular soldiers were on the ground; the center of gravity was the opinion of the local community.

Thus, the key to success lay in bringing to the surface the portion of the populace that hated the guerrillas, and then turning that minority into a majority by a combination of political, social and cultural initiatives.

In other words, the successful counterinsurgent needs to win, not necessarily the hearts and minds of the populace, but at the very least, their consent and support -- however grudgling. The people must prefer us to the insurgents.

But this itself requires a strong military effort; Lt.Col. Galula was certainly not dismissing the military side. He was noting that military action was the prelude to the real work: getting the entire country engaged in "fighting" (isolating) the terrorists through civic, economic, religious, and social means."

As per AJStrata's links, e.g.,

More Iraqi Sunnis Rising Up Against Al Qaeda

They now prefer us over Al Qaeda! Tipping point! Yay!!


lurker, it is my opinion the violence will not end until you eliminate the outside source of money and arms. In this case, Iran.



If Iran can be reduced by economic sanctions look what you get.

Syria is a lone horse roaming the plains, Hamahs gets neutered, Lebanon gets the Hezboes taking a funding break.

Russia gets less influence in the area, unless they want to bail them out.


If I were the Waxman... ooooh, if I were the Walrus, ooooh... goo goo b'jube!!

Mr Waxman, hocus pocus... let us bring that Wildman to you!!

Mr. City Policeman sitting
pretty little policemen in a row
See how they fly like 'Rovie' in the sky
See how they run
I'm crying
I'm cry..... 'in.


Lady Sara

We the Living 

Prayers for this Passover.


Yep Slim, Iran is the key. It's the last piece in the puzzle. Destroy the terror regimes and you reduce terrorists to small groups huddling in caves. Sure, there will still be some terror, but it will be confined to states that cannot effectively police theirselves.

Deal with Iran now, or we will deal with them later, when it is much more costly to us and the ME.


Deal with Iran now, or we will deal with them later, when it is much more costly to us and the ME.

No, let's wait until we get an adult back on the throne not the Dan Quayle in cowboy boots we got now.



That would defuse a lot of the mideast tension but it is not all there is by a long shot.

Demographics and funding of Muslim populations in Europe will still be an issue. Watch it well and see how it is trying to be matched even here in methodology.

We have only been talking of the most militant of the circle of issues, there is a lot more on the plate to be considered.


Iraqi singer Shatha Hassoun won the Arab talent show the other night held in Lebanon. All of Iraq is delirious--sunni and shia alike!

Okay, Pelosi and Reid, go spit on her.


Sure, let the terror regime have a nuke or three. See how that works out. I'm afraid we are going to find out.

Some people are just evil, Sparty, and need to be eliminated.


Slim, it's not an end all. Just necessary. The demographic problem in europe will be settled by civil war. I used to predict it (war in europe) by 2050. I think now by 2025.

I bet I know what you'll say to this but I'll mention it anyway. Didn't Rove also fess up to talking to Cooper?
Rove claims to have no memory of the conversation, so he couldn't fess up to saying anything in the conversation. His lawyer found an email on the White House computer system which Rove wrote a few minutes after the Rove-Cooper phone call. In the email, Rove wrote that Cooper called about welfare reform, and then changed the subject and started probing about Wilson. Rove said in the email that he did not "take the bait" and told Cooper "don't get too far out on Wilson" because Tenet was going to have a statement in the next day or so that was going to debunk a lot of what Wilson was saying.

Rove claims that he does not remember what happened, and so he can neither confirm nor deny Cooper's story, and cannot give any opinion as to the email's accuracy or completeness -- he is simply a reader of the email and has no other information beyond any other reader of the email can speculate on. (Note that Cooper claims not to remember anything about welfare reform.)


Lady Sarah,
I assume you like Rand, what do you think she would make of Delay-style political regimentation? Easy first question, ok. Second, why do so many politicos find it so difficult (esp. the shameful Greenspan at the Alter of Tax Cuts) to lead?



A couple of months ago they had a similar thing with the Iraq World Cup soccer team.

Just shows it can happen with the right common ground.


Hence, Pelosi's called the "Female Hammer".


Sure, let the terror regime have a nuke or three. See how that works out. I'm afraid we are going to find out.

No nation has ever been successfully prevented from going nuclear by military intervention, save Iraq. How's that project going by the way? Persuasion seems to have had the best results.

Iraq - population 20 million and decreasing.

Iran - population 70 million and increasing.

Some people are evil, others are just dumber than dirt. I vote we don't need to have the two duke it out.

Persuasion seems to have had the best results.

Would you care to name any terrorist regimes that fit that description?


Can't think of any. Persuasion with Iran isn't working.

Some people are evil, others are just dumber than dirt.

And some have their heads in the dirt.


Ukraine president orders election in new standoff

By Yuri Kulikov 1 hour, 2 minutes ago

KIEV (Reuters) - Ukraine's pro-Western President Viktor Yushchenko signed a decree on Monday to dissolve parliament and order an election next month, stepping up months of confrontation with the assembly and prime minister.

Parliament, loyal to his arch-rival Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich who is friendlier to Russia, said the decree was akin to the start of a coup and barred the government from financing the May 27 poll.

Yanukovich urged the president to withdraw the decree or face plunging Ukraine into an uncertain future.

The tough stances adopted by both sides raised tensions in the former Soviet republic 2-1/2 years after the so-called "Orange Revolution" peaceful mass protests changed the political landscape.


Yanukovich said the president could suspend the decree or simply not publish it to allow "the country to carry on and develop in calm, civilized fashion."

Without elaborating, he told a post-midnight cabinet meeting shown live on television: "I will not speak aloud of a third option. That would boost tension greatly ... The president would be fully responsible for the heavy burden."

Defense Minister Anatoly Hrytsenko, one of a tiny minority of cabinet members allied to Yushchenko, said he and the armed forces would obey only orders from the president.


Would you care to name any terrorist regimes that fit that description?

Would you care to name any given access to nukes?



From an Iranian

Misguided advocates of negotiation with the mullahs, beware. The mullahs are on an Allah-mandated mission. They are intoxicated with Petrodollars and aim to settle for nothing less than complete domination of the world under the Islamic ummeh. It is precisely for this reason that they consider America and the West as "Ofooli," setting-dying system, while they believe their Islamism as "Tolooi," rising-living order. They are in no mood of negotiating for anything less than the total surrender of democracy, the very anathema to Islamism.

Amil Imani

Other Tom

"No nation has ever been successfully prevented from going nuclear by military intervention..."

Has this poor sap ever heard of Nazi Germany? Is he certain that Japan would not have gone nuclear but for US "intervention?" How about Libya, which according to Qadaffi abandoned its nuclear plans after the US intervention in Iraq?

Where do these dunces come from?

I note that Giuliani is the clear GOP front runner, Hillary is even clearer--even a shoo-in, at this point--and Rudy continues to lead her by a wide margin. On that note, with this thread far too long and old, I head for beddy-bye.

Would you care to name any given access to nukes?

Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya.

You avoid the original question, of course.

"Persuasion seems to have had the best results." Sparty

Would you care to name any terrorist regimes that fit that description?


Oh, add Cuba to that list.


Kathryn Jean Lopez has 2 back to back that really seems to encompass the "ensure defeat" crowd:

With leaders like these... [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

A friend makes some excellent points: " If it’s not worth 'another drop of American blood,' why are you on vacation? Why aren’t you here demanding that we get out now? Why aren’t you here leading a filibuster against a bill that will send another $100 billion to the effort? What must the lefties think of this?"

04/02 11:41 PM

Senate Leader Seems to Not Have the Courage of His Convictions [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

Iraq, Harry Reid says , is "not worth another drop of American blood," but troops can stay for another year?

04/02 11:16 PM


OH...and Jeff Goldstein reminds of this Harry Reid circa 2005

“As far as setting a timeline, as we learned in the Balkans, that’s not a wise decision, because it only empowers those who don’t want us there, and it doesn’t work well to do that.”

Sure you've seen they fantasy? Romance? well fiction anyway, "what if gore were elected?" at Firedoglake ...I thought instead of pure fiction she ought to have thought about what life would be like today if a Democrat actually really meant what they say and have been saying for the last decade -- cuz there's is frickin cazillion TONS of material to work with there


"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

and Another:

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

and Another:

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

"(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983" -- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

:...and the beat goes on...


Come on Tops, you know they all got the info from bushhitlerhaliburton. Why, even Madeline Halfbright and Sandy Bergler knew what he was going to say before he said it.



The powers of bushhitlerchimpymcburton are amazing-- Bush, apparently had control of the Clinton which party is the puppet?


Oh and Barry...

everytime Sport and tom and ferris bueller pretend Bush lied...they essentially give up the fact the Clinton was full of BS when he worried about Saddams WMD and every tomahawk he lobbed at a poor factory or building holing innocent Iraqi's WAS BECAUSE he was perjurer and concerned about his own political situation! Talk about a war profiteer!

Why would the Democrats put that kind of money in such a serious bill?

REP. CHARLES B. RANGEL (D-NY): Because they needed the votes. That bill, we lost so many Democrats, one, because people thought we went too far and others because we didn’t go far enough. And so a lot of things had to go into a bill that certainly those of us who respect great legislation did not want in there. ...MR. RUSSERT: If you want to stop the war, why not just simply cut all the funding off?

REP. RANGEL: Because you don’t have the vote to do it. There’s some people who believe that if you cut all the funding off, you leave our soldiers and, and, and military people exposed, and that they’d have no money and then we’d go back to the scene we had in Vietnam where we’re fleeing by helicopter. And so it’s all compromised. That’s what legislation’s all about, and you have to make the best moral and conscious decision....

House Republicans Have Votes To Sustain Bush Veto

Days after President Bush reiterated his promise to veto a war-funding package that includes more that $20 billion in non-military spending, House Republican leaders announced Monday they have the votes to sustain his threat.

Republican leaders in the House released the names of 154 GOP lawmakers who have signed a letter to the president promising to sustain his veto if the legislation includes "extraneous and excessive" spending.

“We are greatly concerned about the extraneous and excessive non-security related funds contained within the Global War on Terror supplemental spending bill currently under consideration in the Congress,” the brief letter states. “If you choose to veto this measure over this spending, we will vote to sustain your veto.”

Leadership staff began collecting signatures at noon last Thursday, after members attended a closed-door session with Bush at the White House, according to one senior aide. Congress adjourned later that afternoon, and this aide suggested more members would sign on once the House resumes later this month.

The 154 signatures would be enough to sustain Bush’s veto...


And do you feel bad for the people who were bribed for peanuts to ensure defeat?


TS9, I shudder to think about the negotiations and compromises between Bush, Pelosi, and Reid.

Pelosi and Reid are going to play the false mandate game by "pressuring Bush to change the course" (and they did not notice that Bush had already changed course!).

The only compromise should be a clean defense bill - without a timeline and pork. A defense bill with the money Bush needs.

No wonder Reid and Feingold are trying to introduce a bill in a hurry.

What a shock to see how honest and truthful Rangel was this time. Did he have second thoughts about it? It's sickening to see that they bribed to get this bill passed; knowing that this bill will not be enacted into law. It's also sickening that votes were bribed to endorse Pelosi and Reid's argument based on a false mandate.


Amazing how political hacks with agendas can overlook one of their own - I notice how not a peep is heard of the MORE than a $$ BILLION $$ dollars was given from the MILCON committee chaired by Sen Feinstein to HER HUSBANDS COMPANIES - it just amazes me how that was exposed by leftwing loonbag papers, yet it gets no traction as Waxman wouldn't dare have that come out in public - he'd rather forget what the SSCI already disputed in his panderings and witch-hunts. Sheesh, you steal a couple million and you get jailed like Cunningham (deservedly), but you abscond with OVER A BILLION directly to hubby (hmmmmm, half went to her in the community property state) and your lying friends running the committees help you cover it up. Oh, and she was also responsible for the maintenance of Walter Reed on the MILCON Committee - I wonder how she will defend that 'lil oopsie ?

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