Nifong Disbarred

Mike Nifong was disbarred.  Absurd quote du jour:

David B. Freedman, one of Mr. Nifong’s lawyers, said in an interview, “He wants this over. He wanted the process to play out and to receive a fair hearing, and he believes he has received a fair hearing and accepts the findings of the commission.”

He wants it over?  This is far from over:

Days after his disbarment for dishonesty and fraud, Nifong faces possible sanctions for lying in court and a potential criminal investigation.

Attorneys for the three accused athletes say they plan to ask Durham County Superior Court Judge Osmond Smith to issue sanctions against Nifong for lying in court about DNA evidence that later cleared the players.

The attorneys have also called for an independent agency to investigate what went wrong in the case. State Attorney General Roy Cooper has said he would decide whether to pursue a criminal probe after the state bar proceeding concluded.

I think there are three mothers who are wiling to spend at least as much time pursuing Nifong as he spent pursuing their sons.

That said, Jeralyn Merritt makes an important point made previously by one of the Duke lacrosse players (Colin Finnerty, IIRC) - this sort of thing happens all too often, and normally defendants lack the resources and publicity to fight it.

Comments

[Sue]

I read where one of the mothers left the courtroom in tears when Nifong continued with his 'something must have happened' testimony. I don't think that mama is going away anytime soon.

[Sue]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/19287960>Player set to sue Nifong

Meanwhile, attorneys for Seligmann and the other two exonerated men, Collin Finnerty, 20, and David Evans, 24, are preparing to file a civil suit against Nifong.

[Jane]

WEll they ought to get all their expenses back, but I seriously doubt that Nifong has a dime to fork over personally, so at some point these young men need to get Mr. Nifong out of their back pockets. He's too much of a drag.

I'm not opposed to him doing some jail time either. It's time for prosecutors all over the place to get a wake-up call.

[Lesley]

"I think there are three mothers who are wiling to spend at least as much time pursuing Nifong as he spent pursuing their sons."

My mother often said, "When your children are cut, you bleed."

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Oh, I have no doubt whatsoever that Nifong wants it over.

[Rick Ballard]

It would be an expensive case. Nifong's immunity as a prosecutor may be unbreachable and proving that his actions as an investigator were sufficient to establish a separate category (and bring the Durham PD in) is going to be tough as well as expensive.

Add in the fact that the case would be tried in a jurisdiction dumb enough to elect Nifong in the first place and I'm not sure the game is worth the candle.

[Rick Ballard]

Here is an interesting analysis of prosecutorial immunity. Nifong looks reasonably safe.

[Sue]

Rick,

Even if he violated their civil rights? I heard one of the player's attorney talking about filing in federal court regarding that.

[goddessoftheclassroom]

When I saw Dave Evan's dad testify, I kept thinking that if I were the parent, I'd have to sit on my hands to keep them off Nifong's neck.

[fschmieg]

I think they will definitely sue. These families will take this as far as they can. They will likely also sue the county. If the county loses and has to raise taxes on the residents, it is a just result since they elected the guy in the first place.

[Rick Ballard]

Sue,

Civil rights might work but a key point is the he didn't actually convict them. The article I cited deals more with wrongful convictions than wrongful prosecutions and I'm right out of my league if I try to match up "legal thought" between the two.

I know the courts will "protect the process" above all else.

How else can the phoney baloney deal work? (channeling Mel Brooks again)

[Other Tom]

I think it would be a very long shot to get a civil verdict and judgment against Nifong, based solely on my recollection from law school long ago. (I plan to read the article linked by Rick shortly.) But that's no reason not to name him as a defendant in a civil action, just to add the joys of litigation to his package of just deserts.

I have no doubt that the three players will find some deeper, more vulnerable pockets to name in their lawsuit, such as the University, the city of Durham, the county and no doubt a bunch of others that a clever plaintiffs' lawyer (there seems to be no other kind) could dream up. And I can only pray, with the utmost fervor, that each and every one of the Gang of 88 is named, and sits for a deposition. Oh, this is gonna be good!

[Digger]

One problem with going after the deepest pockets, they will have the funds to “make you remember every day for the rest of your life” as one of the mothers said. This prosecution was politically motivated. Not that’s ever been done before, ever heard of Ronnie Earle? Fitzgerald? “ let the flogging begin”.

[cathyf]

It would be an expensive case.

Well, "expensive" is aways a relative question, right? So after the boys and their lawyers possess some significant fraction of Duke's $4.2 billion (yes, notice that's a b) endowment, perhaps pursuing Nifong to the ends of the earth might just turn out to be something fun to spend all that money on?

(As the saying goes: "Be afraid. Be very afraid.")

[Sue]

I heard one attorney talking who said Nifong has indemnity from the county, but indemnity merely means the county will have to pony up the dough. So, I don't know if he can be sued or not, but I suspect they are going to at least give it a shot. I hope so, anyway.

[Other Tom]

I think that the help he gets from the county might depend on the wording of the indemnity provisions. They may be able to find an exclusion for willful misconduct, and in fact the state law may even prohibit indemnification for that. But I don't really know...

[clarice]

Pardon this brief departure from the thread but here is a great roundup of what facts the hearings have established as compared to Time and Murtha's defamation of the Marines at Haditha.

http://newsbusters.org/node/13535

[Sue]

Clarice,

I was going to link to a story on Haditha the other day but got sidetracked. Glad you are still watching it closely.

[RichatUF]

cathyf-

...and their lawyers possess some significant fraction of Duke's $4.2 billion (yes, notice that's a b) endowment, perhaps pursuing Nifong to the ends of the earth might just turn out to be something fun to spend all that money on...

I like your thinking. I would also think that the whole lax team would have cause, iirc, some members were harrassed by faculty. Duke Uni will probably settle, too much risk (and cost) in putting each member of the Gang of 88 in a chair.

Also since the defense provide to the NYT's information and the NYT's ignored it would they also have risk. Seeing the NYT get sued would be like...a bunch of presents under the Christmas tree. Also I would think that ESPN could be tossed in the mix.

RichatUF

[Jane]

I have no doubt that the three players will find some deeper, more vulnerable pockets to name in their lawsuit, such as the University, the city of Durham

That's where I would go and if the defendants had one speck of brains among them they would offer 100% of the legal fees and expenses to day plus 50% on the day they get the demand letter. Letting time go by on this one is bad for everyone - particularly the 3 students.

[Dan S]

Clarice,

That link took me to a Cheney/Halliburton/AP/NYT article, not Haditha.

I did see a post on Patterico on Haditha in the last day or so. Looks likely the first case will be dropped as the prosecutions theory of the case doesn't map to the factual territory .

[clarice]

Sorry--here's the Haditha piece.
http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/rboyd_20070618.html

The prosecution case will probably be dropped re the first of the men to have had an Article 32 hearing. Since the same weaknesses seem to cover the other defendants, I expect we'll see similar results, I blogged about it on the 16th but this article has more detail.

What a travesty! I wish there were a way to make Time and Murtha pay for what they did to these men and troop morale..And I think NCIS needs a full bore investigation of its own operations.

[clarice]

http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/rboyd_20070618.html>Haditha

[Bruce Hayden]

I think that the reason to get the litigation into federal court would be to get a much bigger jury pool. I think it less likely that a jury form the city that just elected Nifong would find for the LAX player than one composed from a larger geographic area.

On another matter, I doubt that the Nifong's indemnification by the city is all inclusive. His disbarment would I think be prima facie evidence that he was not operating w/i the constraints of his office.

Finally, I am interested to see how the motion for contempt comes out. Nifong's actions clearly cost the defendants a lot of money and wasted the court's time. Of course, with Nifong now unemployed, his being judgment proof is right around the corner.

[Sue]

Someone made a point this weekend of bringing up the ADAs that knew what Nifong was doing and remained quiet. Should they also be in legal jeopardy?

[Lesley]

According to KC Johnson in his Complete Case Narrative:

" Duke administrators actively assisted the state. Without informing President Richard Brodhead, administrators demanded from the captains a candid accounts of the evening's events, allegedly citing a non-existent "student-faculty" privilege to encourage the captains to disclose and criminal activity. Multiple sources confirms that Coach Mike Pressler, apparently acting on orders from above, instructed the other players not to tell their parents about the police inquiry. Meanwhile, Dean Sue Wasiolek arranged for a local lawyer, Wes Covington, to act as "facilitator" in arranging for a group meeting with police."

"The night before the meeting, one player broke down and told his father, who happened to be in Durham. Other parents then were informed, and - recognizing the need to obtain competent counsel - postponed the meeting."

INSTRUCTED THEM NOT TO TELL THEIR PARENTS???? As a parent, this part creeps me out more almost more than anything about this case. Duke University has much to answer for.

[SlimGuy]

If any of you are in the local area heres a thing you might want to attend

 

Sunday, June 17, 2007 Prosecutorial Misconduct in Light of the Duke Lacrosse Case The North Carolina Institute for Constitutional Law, a private public interest legal foundation initiated in 2003 by retired Supreme Court Justice Robert Orr, will host a Continuing Legal Education program entitled "Prosecutorial Misconduct in Light of the Duke Lacrosse Case" on June 27, 2007. Presenting faculty and speakers for the program include Duke University Professor of Law James Coleman, Attorney David Freedman (Attorney for Mike Nifong), Duke University Professor of Law Michael Tigar, and NCCU Professor of Law Irving Joyner. The three hour program (CLE credit: 2.75 hours applied for), which will be moderated by NCICL Executive Director Dean Webster, includes lunch and is open to attorneys for a cost of $25.oo. Non-attorneys may attend at a cost of $15.00 while students will pay $7.50 to participate.

Topics will include: Comments about the Duke case, and in the context of what is and should be the law for when government actors have framed an innocent person,

• Having a preliminary judicial determination of whether sufficient probable cause exists
• How much leeway does/should the District Attorney have
• Removal of the rogue DA - from a specific case; from office; by whom; when; how; and on what grounds
• Budgetary restraints on the rogue prosecution
• North Carolina and federal law on the civil and criminal liability of governmental wrongdoers

To register for the program, click here: NCICL CLE Registration.
Posted by LieStoppers at 9:42 PM  

[SlimGuy]

KC Johnson notes the following

On the other side, Brian Meehan brought evasion to new levels, so much so that virtually everyone (including the panel) was mocking him by the end of the hearing. That Brad Bannon explained how DNA is relevant to criminal cases in two minutes more clearly than Meehan did in two hours gives a sense of Meehan’s incompetence. The figure that Lane Williamson labeled “Mr. Obfuscation” also might have opened himself up to a perjury charge, since Meehan said something very different under oath last week than he did in the December 15 hearing.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

It's worth noting that "Dean Sue" --- who I had a significant crush on when I was a student --- is (now) an attorney.

[PeterUK.]

Interesting comments about Dean Sue in the Duke newspaper,the Chronicle
She seems to have some connection with the ACLU.

[windansea]

From KC

Nifong Resigns . . . Eventually
WRAL is reporting that Mike Nifong--two days after the Disciplinary Hearing Commission recommended his disbarment after finding that he had repeatedly engaged in conduct involving fraud, dishonesty, deception, and deceit--has submitted his resignation letter as Durham DA.

The effective date of his resignation? July 13. So for almost one month, the "minister of justice" of Durham County will be someone that, according to the DHC, lied to the court, to defense attorneys, and to the State Bar. All the while, Nifong will collect around $10,000 in salary and obtain another month for his pension.

[sylvia]

" Duke administrators actively assisted the state. Without informing President Richard Brodhead, administrators demanded from the captains a candid accounts of the evening's events, allegedly citing a non-existent "student-faculty" privilege to encourage the captains to disclose and criminal activity. "

Yeah so much for the team cooperating fully. The only thing they did do, having the captains give a statement, was coerced by the university. What a joke.

Again you are all dreaming about these cases. The only case I can see is the country of Durham liable for the police running a flawed line-up, but you have to mostly prove malicious intent there so I doubt it.

As to Seligman, trying to clear his name, why didn't he cooperate at first, and then go to the investigators if Nifong didn't want to talk to him. He has himself more than partly to blame. Also he would have to prove that Nifong had clear knowledge that his timeline was wrong to not validate Seligmanns alibi. And given that there were errors from all testifying, the timeline is still not clear. No case there.

Nifong had probable cause and he brought an indictment. Nothing wrong in that, period. They will have to file this in Federal court or they will have no chance otherwise. If they get a bunch of white elite judges looking to make a statement, they will win. Otherwise, if they get judges who go by the facts, they have no chance.

And I still think Mangum should sue for defamation. In a Durham courtroom, she'll win.

[sylvia]

And what really gets my goat is all this talk that the DNA evidence "cleared" the accused. Most sexual assaults and rape cases are prosecuted without DNA. Why is that any different here? No DNA does not mean no case.

Again, the standard for an indictment is - did Nifong have probable cause? Obviously the grand jury agreed. Why don't we sue them as well?

[clarice]

Lesley, that reminds me of high school where the women gym/health teachers (all of indeterminate sexual orientation)encouraged girls in trouble to come talk to them and then spread the news thru the school faster than the speed of light.An outrageous breach of trust.

[Jane]

So Sylvia, you know what Nifong told the grand jury right? Or if you don't you are so sure of his virtue that he told them exactly the truth, didn't lie about a thing, and the jurors made a fair assessment. Right?

I bet you are just dying to let leak out what it is in your background that causes you to cling to such foolishness.

[sylvia]

"I bet you are just dying to let leak out what it is in your background that causes you to cling to such foolishness"

It's called being intelligent and thinking for myself.

[clarice]

You fooled us. Great concealment techniques.

[sylvia]

"So Sylvia, you know what Nifong told the grand jury right? "

Basically yes. He told them that Mangum identified three accuseds in a line-up with results given to him by the police, who had no alibi that was presented to him, whom she claimed assaulted her in the house. That's all he needed. End of story.

[clarice]

Well there are no transcripts of the gj proceeding and it is illegal to report what has occurred in the gj (unless you are a witness talking about your own testimony) so, out of curiousity, how the hell do you know what he told the gj?

[sylvia]

One thing I am wondering, and maybe some of the lawyers can chime in, is how much rsponsibility do the prosecutors have in a case being run correctly? Say the police f*cked up the line-up. Is that a "buck stops here" kind of thing where the prosecutor has the responsibity to check into that and oversee it, or is that something that is not his business and up to the county to supervise police procedures. I think knowing that will make a big difference in whether Nifong can be held liable.

[PeterUK.]

"It's called being intelligent and thinking for myself."

Sylvia,it would be better to outsource.

[sylvia]

"so, out of curiousity, how the hell do you know what he told the gj?"

Notice my use of the term "basically" Clarice. It's called supposition. And I'm also wondering, can the transcript of the grand jury transciprt be made public then if they want to indict Nifong? What if they find the grand jury grossly negligent in the indictment? I mean it wouldn't happen, but this whole thing is opening up a can of worms here.

[Jane]

how the hell do you know what he told the gj?

Gee maybe an investigation is in order.

I ask if you know what happened in the GJ and you answer: "basically yes".

Sylvia you don't have a smidgeon of a clue what happened in the GJ or anywhere else from what I can tell. You aren't a lawyer, presumably you have never been a grand juror, you don't know Nifong or any of the jurors. So why not admit you are simply making stuff up?

[sylvia]

"So why not admit you are simply making stuff up?"

Uhh, yeah I kind of just did. Do you know the meaning of the word "supposition"? Look it up if you don't.

[windansea]

It's called supposition.

uh huh...what do you call LieFong's 15 versions of why he didn't release DNA data?

the NC State Bar concluded that Fong lied to them under oath many times, and you still want to believ him.

[sylvia]

"the NC State Bar concluded that Fong lied to them under oath many times, and you still want to believ him"

You know, I still don't see the lies there. I see errors in judgement. I see as many lies there as I see in the Libby case. Maybe I just don't understand the whole legal thing here. Feel free to summarize exactly what his "lies" were to help clarify this to me.

[clarice]

sylvia..let me put this as bluntly as I can:THERE IS NOT AND NEVER WAS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE GRAND JURY THEREFORE ONE CANNOT BE RELEASED.

[windansea]

Stop playing dumb Sylvia, you saw all of this in the last thread on this case.

11) False statements of material fact to court? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

Posted by: windansea | June 16, 2007 at 02:34 PM

12) False statements of material fact to opposing counsel? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

13) Failure to disclose everything re DSI report to court--false statements to court? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

Posted by: windansea | June 16, 2007 at 02:37 PM

14) False claim that all Meehan oral statements included in his report? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

15) Falsely implying to court that he was not aware of DNA results at start of 12-15 hearing? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

16) False statements to State Bar that privacy concerns played a role in Meehan report? No. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? No.

17) False statements to State Bar that Meehan report did not include exculpatory evidence? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

18) False statements to State Bar that his 12-15 statements referred to alleged charges against him by Duke defendants' lawyers? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES. [Notes the consensus of the hearing committee on the above issues: worry that such charges are extremely rare and fear tha such charges might have chilling effect in normal cases.]

[PeterUK.]

Why not "suppose" Sylvia is someone like Jukeboxgrad and is simply taking the piss?

[windansea]

you do know what a false statement is right?

[sylvia]

Okay thanks Clarice. A useful legal tidbit from you. (for once) That makes it a little difficult then to try and ascertain what supposed "lies" Nifong told the grand jury that inspired them to indict the LAX guys. So that makes his liability further challenging.

Again I'm no lawyer, but I suppose that any error or lie Nifong made, would have to be shown to have direct impact on the indictment for him to be held civilly liable. If it's not shown to have any impact on the indictment, and since the court case was never brought, his lies are mostly an internal legal affair remedied by disbarrment.

And since we all know the standard of indictment is very low, I think it would be very hard to show Nifong didn't have probable cause. After all, the GRAND JURY agreed he did. So what, we are going to sue the prosecutor every time his case doesn't pass the grand jury? Sue the grand jury for making a "wrong" decision? Yeah right. This whole thing is ridiculous.

[sylvia]

"you do know what a false statement is right?"

I heard some of the hearing. What proof do they have that his statements were false? His explanation of being concerned about privacy sounded reasonable to me. Again, if you have something specific I'd like to see it.

[Rick Ballard]

Peter,

Not jbox - this is the other phony, DougJ. It's nice to have clear rebuttal evidence against the argument that "nobody could be that stupid".

Wear gloves folks - these things cause warts.

[sylvia]

Okay I just saw TM's link to Jerralyn which links to the disbarrment proceeding. I only saw some of the hearing yesterday, so I will read the transcript later and try and determine for myself the extent of his so-called lies.

[windansea]

Again, if you have something specific I'd like to see it.

Yikes...it's not quite tequila-thirty here yet but I might need a beer or two with lunch.

[clarice]

Protect your brain from injury. There are two new very interesting threads up.

[vnjagvet]

We will hold our collective breaths in anticipation, Sylvia.

[Jane]

So now saying "basically yes" means "I'm making stuff up" to sylvia. That is good to remember.

[PeterUK.]

Rick,
Can't be,DougJ was accused of "cyber stalking" Sylvia,remember she was getting a new computer and address? This would mean that DougJ was a schizophrenic transvestite with paranoid overtones.
Still I hope both of him are very happy.

[cathyf]

Nah, PUK, I don't think schizophrenic -- she acts more bipolar. She goes for periods of time where she makes lots of sense, and then she goes into this frentic posting mode where she repeats things that are absurd. (Like that of course Nifong wanted to hear Seligman's alibi.) And then notice she got all defensive when I pointed out that Magnum has a history of bipolar disease and a history of becoming unexpectedly abusive with random bystanders while under the influence.

[PeterUK.]

Don't know about bipolar,Sylvia obviously doesn't know her Arctic from her elbow.

[Sue]

Holy cow! That was fast...fox news reporting.

DURHAM, N.C. — Duke University has reached an undisclosed financial settlement with three former lacrosse players falsely accused of rape, the school said Monday.

[Jane]

So Fox is reporting that the kids settled with Duke - but I didn't hear for how much.

[Sue]

Jane,

According to N&O (Durham newspaper) the settlement amount will not be disclosed. I hope they got their attorney's fees back plus punitive damages.

[Jane]

Hopefully they took my advice. That's the smartest thing they could possibly do.

[clarice]

Yeah--everybody pays for the malfeasance of Brodhead and the Gang of 88 all of whom remain in their positions without penalty for their misconduct. I do so hope the Board of Trustees is paying attention and hands a lot of folks their walking papers. OTOH these Boards tend to be picked for their complaisance with this kind of nonsense so I wouldn't count on it.

[Jeff Dobbs]

How about giving each of the deserving faculty a salary cut equal to 1/88th of the settlement?

[clarice]

Works for me. Plus a continuing education course on the constitution before they are allowed back in the classroom.

[Sue]

Plus a continuing education course on the constitution before they are allowed back in the classroom.

You know, I don't even think it is a constitutional issue. When a teacher, whether he or she is at college or lower levels, enters into a debate like the one that occurred here, I believe they have crossed their own professional boundaries. What exactly were they accomplishing by interjecting themselves into a criminal investigation? They should be fired and if any have tenure, lose it. Professionalism went out the window, it would seem, sometime after I left college.

[Jeff Dobbs]

There should be a friendly lacrosse match between the team and the faculty.

It's a gentle sport.

[clarice]

Well maybe just make them hand embroider book bags with "Innocent until proven guilty even if they are good looking, smart, male white athletes"

[windansea]

heh..maybe Sylvia was right, there will be no further actions because all the affected parties are bending over and saying "how much to make this go away"

[windansea]

I think they will still sue the county and PD, who will try to fight it till they know they will lose and then settle.

They will do this not so much for the money but to send a message, keep an eye on your DA's and PDs

[PeterUK.]

What was wrong with the galleys?

[vnjagvet]

Duke clearly has some excellent, non-ideological attorneys who are able to talk sense to their client.

So long as the defendants and their parents did not overreach, they were bound to eventually have a good payday. The only question was how much more damage to the reputation of a fine university would be suffered before that payday.

Now the County and City should follow Duke's example.

[cathyf]

Duke, 3 Players Settle In Hope of Healing Wounds

We'll see about the other 43 players. The entire LAX team was subject to abuse and threats. There are guys who had their grades lowered, were verbally abused in classes by instructors, and instructors were inciting violence. I hope the rest of the team sues Duke, too.

[dick]

Under the circumstance would you go back to Duke to complete your degree?

I wonder if they can still go after the Gang of 88 or if there is something in the settlement that addresses that issue. I would hope that Duke has to penalize them in some way for the tactics they used against these students.

[Other Tom]

Cathyf, is that quote from you a headline from an article somewhere? Are the three players who settled the three who were indicted? Any mention of the terms of the settlement?

[clarice]

OT Fox reported that the three indicted players settled with Duke for an undisclosed sum.

[topsecretk9]

Fantastic -- and each of the 88 should giiven a severe pay cut to pay for it.

[clarice]

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/duke_lacrosse/nifong/story/608629.html>Nigong kicked out effective tomorrow

[sylvia]

Wow this sucks. What wimps. So now the message is to students, act like louts on campus as much as possible, and then when you are unsurprisingly accused of sexual assault at some point, do NOT cooperate with the police and hush it up, unless of course the university forces you to make a statement, and then when you make a statement, make it as generic as possible and gloss over and obfuscate the facts of the critical time period, and name no names of unknown guests whom the DNA might actually belong to so they can't be inlcuded in the line-up, and THEN when the faculty exercises their free speech and rightly criticizes you for being louts and not cooperating fully, sue them for millions of dollars! And also if the university actually enacts its written policy of suspending all indicted students, sue them for that too!.

Man, these kids are fooling the whole country and becoming rich while doing it. I think the greatest lesson here in the end is paying a lot for your lawyers is worth it.

[sylvia]

HAven't read the transcript yet of the disbarrment hearing because I know it's going to be long and boring, which the hearing was as well. But it's on a to-do list - as I know you all can't wait for my summary, right?

[sylvia]

And something to think about - if the kids had actually named the names of the unknown guests - maybe a few of those non-matching DNA would have actually have matched, rendering this whole issue of non-disclosure moot. And today the right people would be facing trial and Nifong would be sitting pretty. Instead their little ploy worked. Ahh so sad how the devious always win.

[sylvia]

Sorry another thought on this. Based on my personal study of cultural norms (and I was right in my opinion that other non LAX players had to be there) just for fun, I would guess that any non-player guests there would be most likely to be invited friends of the residents of the house and/or the group leaders such as the co-captains. That's usually who invites the non-group members in a guys pecking order. That might mean Dave Evans who gave the statement for one.

The fact that the unknown guests were not named makes me further suspicious. Again, if they had nothing to hide, and they knew the DNA wouldn't match- why not name them? Due to my guess that the unknown guests were most likely invited by the senior members of the team, I would guess that they were most likely to be in the heart of the action of anything that may have went down. Their testimony might have been the most helpful of all. Too bad we never got it.

[sylvia]

Another thought - the bar and the public is making such a big deal about the hidden DNA results. But think about this, I just reminded myself by a search that the indictments happened weeks BEFORE any DNA tests that Nifong was crucified for happened and were not a factor at all in two of the students being indicted. (Dave Evans was indicted after the 2nd round of DNA tests because his DNA actually DID partially match on the discarded fingernails, so I doubt he can claim foul play for that.)

So in my opinion, Nifong can only be held liable for a supposed false indictment, not malicious prosecution for a trial since the trial never took place. And he is being pilloried for not providing the DNA non-matches. However, the DNA was not a factor at all in the indictment. The flawed line-up was, and that was not run by Nifong, that was run by the police. So what exactly did Nifong do wrong here that actually effected the students? Nothing in my opinion. If anyone should be held liable, it should be the bumbling police who ran the flawed line-up. Maybe Nifong should sue THEM!

[sylvia]

"She goes for periods of time where she makes lots of sense, and then she goes into this frentic posting mode where she repeats things that are absurd. (Like that of course Nifong wanted to hear Seligman's alibi.) "

Hmmm. Did I ever say that Cathy? I said the DETECTIVES would have wanted to hear what Seligmann said, if Nifong didn't. Wow reading comprehension can be lacking here. If you keep up with twisted words I might start putting you on the troll list.

As to my frenetic posting, I doubt it's bipolar. It's just that I have things in real life to concentrate on, and when I actually have a moment to sit down to post something, as I'm thinking about what I'm posting, it makes me think some other thoughts on the topic, which makes me think some other thoughts on it etc - hence multiple posts.

Nah, no mental illness here. Although I have always been told from all quarters that I'm "not like other people" - so I don't know if that's sane or crazy. Could be so sane it's crazy...

[topsecretk9]

Hey -- how was everyones Father's Day? ::wink::

Anyways, belated to all the JOM Dads.

[Carol_Herman]

Lucianne also posted the Nifong story. And, a poster to her site,named Waltlear, posted that the settlement is $10,000,000 million to each student.

That's interesting. Dunno if it's just a number out of a hat.

And, I have no idea how Brodhead holds onto his job as Duke's president, either.

Sylvia: The discarded fingernail was in the garbage.

And, if you've read the judge's comments TO Nifong, who now cannot go back to work at all. The Judge in charge informed the sherrif's not to let him near his desk; I am quite convinced the 3 accused Duke students were INNOCENT.

That Crystal Magnum was mentally ill? Yes. Drunk and psychotic, having a breakdown. On the night in question.

And, yes. She was threatened by Nifong! She was told he'd take her kids away.

You bet Nifong is trouble, now.

But, he gets to keep his pension. he put in 30 years. He won't get to collect it, though, at his current pay level. Because he didn't put in the five years.

The other issue, of immunity, I don't think is going to get resolved in his favor, either. But that's for the court to determine.

This case got a lot more coverage than Nifong bargained for.

Including, he can't pick the date he leaves. The judge just did it.

[cathyf]

The discarded fingernail was in the garbage.

Good catch, Carol. The fingernail was in the bathroom wastebasket. Where it would have come into contact with any other trash in the wastebasket. So if Evans blew his nose and threw the kleenex in the wastebasket (and he lived in the house, so that's not an implausible scenario), that would explain how his DNA ended up on the fake fingernail.

On the other hand, there is no such simple explanation for how male DNA could have ended up in Magnum's rectum.

[cathyf]

And, yes. She was threatened by Nifong! She was told he'd take her kids away.

I don't think that there is any evidence that Nifong threatened her with anything that specific. But the implicit threat was obvious -- she started this whole thing, and if she wasn't going to help them keep it going, then there were numerous ways that the prosecutor and police could punish her.

[sylvia]

If as Clarice says (in caps) that there is NO transcript from a Grand Jury then why is there this kind of stiff in the Libby indictment?:

"On or about March 5, 2004, in the District of Columbia, I. LEWIS LIBBY, also known as “SCOOTER LIBBY,” defendant herein, having taken an oath to testify truthfully in a proceeding before a grand jury of the United States, knowingly made a false material declaration, ... (underlined portions alleged as false): . . . . And then he said, you know, did you know that this – excuse me, did you know that Ambassador Wilson's wife works at the CIA? And I was a little taken aback by that."

Who has the perfect memory then if there is no transcript? I must look this up later...

[clarice]

Because every other place in the US does require gj transcripts except North Carolina, Sylvia.

[sylvia]

Well I read that Jerralyn link. It wasn't a transcript of the whole disbarment trial, just some concluding thoughts. I saw this in there:

"And that led to something really very extraordinary, a declaration of actual innocence of the three defendants — something that could never have been accomplished even if the criminal case had proceeded before Judge Smith. And while we don’t know, it seems reasonably clear that one would predict that at the suppression hearing in February the case would have been dismissed. But it would have been dismissed with no declaration of innocence"

So now I see bar is taking it upon themselves to judge the accusers in the criminal system as perjurers without a pesky trial or a jury to get in the way. Great new precedent.

Then I read some NYT stuff on the subject.

"Brian W. Meehan, director of the laboratory, DNA Security, said it was his decision alone not to refer to the unidentified male DNA in a report. Mr. Meehan, a witness for the state agency prosecuting the case, said Mr. Nifong had asked for a report on identifiable male DNA and did not limit what else he could write in the report.
“Mr. Nifong never directed what should be in or out of the report,” Mr. Meehan said, other than its main purpose of showing DNA matches to known males, such as a match with 98 percent certainty between one suspect (Dave Evans)and false fingernails found in the suspect’s trashcan."

Okay, so Nifong never directed Meehan to lie. Soooo Nifong lied about what? Well apparently he lied about his "awareness" of the rules of evidence, and his claim that privacy would play a role in such decisions. So the panel found him to be a liar about his concerns about privacy, even though they agreed with him on this:

"16) False statements to State Bar that privacy concerns played a role in Meehan report? No. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? No."

Soooo, the bar agreed Nifong made no false statements about his concern for privacy, but he was lying anyway when he said he was so concerned about privacy he didn't ask for the other results. Okay, I get it, riiiiight. Remind me never to put those people on my jury.

[sylvia]

"Because every other place in the US does require gj transcripts except North Carolina, Sylvia"

Okay, mystery solved.

[sylvia]

"So if Evans blew his nose and threw the kleenex in the wastebasket (and he lived in the house, so that's not an implausible scenario), that would explain how his DNA ended up on the fake fingernail. "

Couldn't they have determined whether the DNA in the nails was predominately mucus or skin cells? I would think they could have.

[sylvia]

Okay I just did a search and saw this article that concisely summarizes what Nifong did, in not such a good light, so that makes it a little clearer.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1537/story/564994-p2.html

[clarice]

What about, "thanks for clarifying that" instead of "ok, mystery solved"?

[Jane]

Too much to ask Clarice, sadly.

[cathyf]

So now I see bar is taking it upon themselves to judge the accusers in the criminal system as perjurers

No, and when the cops arrest a drunk on disorderly conduct charges and laugh at his stories of the alien spaceship that was chasing him, they aren't accusing the drunk of perjury, either.