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June 15, 2007

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clarice

At the tail end of the previous thread, we've been discussing this and the Libby case...do we need more supervision/checks on prosecutions? Should prosecutors be chargeable for obstructing justice themselves? Should be adopt a magistrate system for oversight? Should the federal obstruction laws be amended?

anduril

I've often wondered whether these problems could be solved by having the judges more involved, but really the magistrate system might be more practical because it would get an outside supervisor more involved at an early stage. It could do a lot to restore public confidence, especially if the magistrate had disciplinary powers.

Sue

The tears of a clown...when there's no one around...or in the case of Nifong, while the cameras are rolling...

clarice

Sara Reported on another thread that Nifong has resigned.

clarice

Sounds like the makings of another good article by you, anduril. Theoretically under normal operations DoJ should be doing this internally, and I suspect that remains unchanged, though looking at the Black case handled under normal supervision I wonder whether the main office is now delegating way to much to the local offices. Certainly state and local D.A's receive minimal if any supervision.

sylvia

Ah hah. I just heard Nifong and the cross examiner talk about how they had known not all the people at the party were LAX players. Just as I expected because it would not stand to reason from all the social norms of the way young men act that I know, that not one single non player was there. How do we know that the DNA did not come from the non-players?

I agree that Nifong messed up with the line-up and that killed the case. I can see that he made some big errors, however...the LAX team has much to blame about this and are not the innocent little angels that many try to portray.

They should have provided the names of the people in the master bedroom and the names of the non-lax players at the party which apparently they did not do. If the non guilty people would have cooperated and been more forthcoming with names perhaps Nifong could have had a more accurate line-up and some more corroberating evidence of who was in or near the master bedroom while the accuser was there. If Nifong would have had more believable testimony about who was there and who wasn't there he would have been more likely to take the testimony from Seligman seriously. Instead they all clammed up as a group, coming up with half truths about the accuser not being alone, and letting Nifong twist in the wind. In the end, their efforts at being clever with the defense caused more problems for their fellow teammates than preventing them. They are guilty of of part of the problems here.

clarice

The incredible shrinking "Haditha" massacre case--ginned up by Time:
"CAMP PENDLETON ---- The officer in charge of a military hearing expressed serious doubts Friday about the government's prosecution of Lance Cpl. Justin Sharratt, one of three Marines charged in the November 2005 shooting deaths of Iraqi civilians in the city of Haditha.

Lt. Col. Paul Ware, who will recommend whether to send Sharratt to trial, challenged the prosecution, saying the government's theory of the case does not warrant the three counts of unpremeditated murder filed against Sharratt in December.

"The account you want me to believe does not support unpremeditated murder," Ware told the lead prosecutor, Maj. Daren Erickson. "Your theories don't match the reason you say we should go to trial."


Ware's comments came as the government and defense presented him with summations of the case on the fifth and final day of a hearing that will determine if the 22-year-old rifleman from Camp Pendleton's 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment will be ordered to stand trial.

Sharratt is accused of the civilian equivalent of second-degree murder for shooting three Iraqi brothers inside a home. A fourth man was shot by Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, who also faces murder charges.

Ware also suggested he is inclined to believe Sharratt, who maintains the first two men he shot were pointing AK-47 rifles at him, and that the killings were carried out in self-defense."

< a href=http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/06/15/news/top_stories/1_01_090_12_00.txt> More B.S. brought to you by Time

Sue

Sylvia,

I've pretty much kept my mouth shout about this case in the past, but you need to actually listen to what this DA is saying. Or not saying. He tried to ruin the lives of 3 people to win an election. That isn't alright with me. It shouldn't be alright with you.

Jeff Dobbs

"The account you want me to believe does not support unpremeditated murder," Ware told the lead prosecutor, Maj. Daren Erickson. "Your theories don't match the reason you say we should go to trial."


Oh God, I'm going to be physically sick.

Here's the link

sylvia

"That isn't alright with me. It shouldn't be alright with you."

Things don't happen in a vacuum Sue. I'm not excusing what Nifong did, however neither am I excusing the decision of the LAX team to not cooperate agsinst what were potentially serious charges. Their lack of cooperation probably had the unfortunate effect of making Nifong more determined to bend the rules to nail them. Again, I'm not excusing it, but prosecutors can get personal - look at Fitz for example. If the LAX players were truly honorable people, they would have cooperated more fully.

Sue

Sylvia,

I will respectfully back out of this conversation that I jumped into with you.

clarice

sylvia--you just make up facts--the record shows that everyone in the team was fully cooperative.(And that's the last time ever I plan to respond to you because you will just curtsey, turn and throw out some more make believe facts.)

Sue

Nifong is on the stand right now admitting to "unintentional false statements" to the court.

He should be under a criminal investigation instead of just a hearing on whether or not he should maintain a law license.

sylvia

The record does not show that Clarice. If so, what are the names of the non-LAX people at the party? You think Nifong was informed about those names at the time of the line-up. Again, the defense spin has been masterful about all this, convincing every one that they have cooperated, and the defense lawyers have deserved every penny they earned. But a person with a little logic and lack of bias can still see past the spin and see different sides. Unfortunately there aren't many people like that out there.

boris

Well not since the Hale Bop comet swooped by and picked them all up for the ride home anyway.

sylvia

"Take away the 5 samples on her panties which theoretically could have been "dirty-as in not washed for some time" and you have four unidentified men in addition to her boyfriend she had recent sex with. "

This was from Enlightened yesterday. Okay so you have 4 samples that she had recent sex with. I believe her boyfriend was one of those samples and/or she admitted to sleeping with her driver at some point.

That leaves THREE unidentified DNA samples deposited recently. That meshes with her story of being assaulted by three men. Since the Duke players did not provide the names of the non-player attendees, that DNA evidence is not exculpatory, as not everyone at the party has been excluded.

Again the line-up was obviously flawed, but we all know by now that a mistaken line-up ID is the greatest reason that people are wrongfully convicted. That in itself is not evidence of her lying but possibly of a confused person.

One reason the line-up had to be so broad is because the Duke players would not give testimony about who was in the bathroom and/or master bedroom while the accuser was alone in the house. And tt would have greatly helped to actually have the pictures of the non-players available to be ID'ed, but again, the players chose not to give this. Had they done so, there would have been independent evidence not related to the line-up and the visual IDs to figure out whom to focus on and whom NOT to focus on. So in the end, the players should have cooperated more fully, as it would have not only been the decent thing to do, but it would probably have spared a lot of grief for all involved.

Enlightened

Sylvia - Other men at the party does not a RAPE make. PROVE and don't fantasize that 9 - and probably more - unidentified sperm donors attended that party and were there when the alleged victim said she was raped you might earn some credibility. That would have been a gang rape and there has never been a single hint from ANYONE that occurred.

Don't forget the 2nd dancer knows what happened. Don't try and change her story to fit your fantasy of these ellusive possible rapists. And you can fantasize all you want that some ellusive rapists are out there keeping their mouths shut. That's what college boys do after they have sex with a stripper - they brag to everyone in kingdom come. Too bad we haven't heard any of that bragging. These must be some very sophisticated gang rapers.

You have a deep seated hatred for the white men in question - it is patently obvious.

Talk about bias. Only Wendy Murphy is more hateful and biased than you are towards these men.

The criminals in this fiasco are getting their just rewards.


I'm done with you too.

sylvia

"That would have been a gang rape and there has never been a single hint from ANYONE that occurred."

The action occurred alledgedly in the bathroom with the door closed. It probably occurred over just a few minutes. Obviously the people in the bathroom aren't going to tell. The only way to get cooperation is for anyone in the master bedroom to come forward about who was in that bedroom and/or bathroom while the accuser was in the house alone. We can guess that someone was probably in those rooms at those times- it's not that big of a house. However, the Duke players are not stupid and are disciplined and so far, we have not gotten any information on this, and probably never will, and I think that's wrong.

"Don't forget the 2nd dancer knows what happened."

The second dancer is a proven liar. We know this because we know that the accuser left the house with her purse and never got back into the house. We know that Kim Roberts went back into the house to "look" for the accusers purse and somehow the purse ended up in the bathroom again. The purse did not walk there on its own. Kim Roberts obviously saw the chaos of the situation and tried to take advantage of it for her own benefit.

Rick Ballard

"I'm done with you too."

Brava, Enlightened.

sylvia

"Brava, Enlightened"

Yes I know - debate is painful, especially when it goes against your mantra. I'm sorry to have to do this to you all, but this topic interests me as much as the Libby case interests many of you, and I realize my opinion is as aggravating to you as you are to many lefties on this topic. They try to pooh pooh and case-close the Libby case as well, but we know better than that, don't we?

Jane

Sylvia,

"non-guilty" people came forward and Nifong refused to talk to them. Seligman and his dad went to Nifong's office to provide him with the receipts that proved his alibi, and Nifong sent out a subordinate to say he (Nifong) could read Seligman's lies in the paper.

Meanwhile Nifong refused to talk to the accused, the witness and the victim. He also refused to read the investigative reports, and then coerced the DNA guy to lie. But yeah it's all those bad college kids fault that Nifong acted like an unethical despot.

From what I have seen you are not well enough informed on this case to debate. And that's the exact same problem most of us have with the trolls who come in here because they hate the administration but don't want to waste any time with the facts. At least that is the kindest assessment I can make after today's testimony.

Oh and after the testimony today there is plenty to say about the Duke case - and every bloody word of it shows that the bad guy here is Nifong.

Rick Ballard

Nifong's own words:

Q: As we sit here today, do you have a personal belief as to whether a sexual assault occurred?
A: [Pauses for several seconds.] I think something happened in that bathroom, but it was not a sexual assault. Could have been non-sexual assault or intimidation. Something happened to make everybody leave that scene very quickly.

The "something" that happened is that a drunken whore got run off. Like the first cop figured out within two minutes of talking to her.

Enlightened

Sadly it appears that a feminist "zealot" (KC's) word - the SANE nurse is part and parcel why this case kept going forward.

This b-tch Levicy insists that "women don't lie about rape". That is so patently odious, so uninformed, so pathetic I'm just astonished.

She is a reprehensible person. She is probably the sole reason this case was pushed forward - by her blatant lies, and her attempts to change her initial reports based on press coverage.

I wish the players could sue her ass into oblivion.

Enlightened

Wait a minute - is this true?

Tara Levicy - SCHNITKER????? The same person that produced The Vagina Monologues??????

No wonder she is so good at making things up as she goes along....just another Hollywood wannabe.

I wonder if she actually put out feelers for a "Crystal Magnum's Story"????????

Ugh. I guess I wasn't following the case close enough.

Jane

She is probably the sole reason this case was pushed forward

Oh I suspect Nifong's need for a bigger pension is the sole reason this case was pushed forward. As for the woman, my guess is that she was retaliating for the reported racist epthats being hurled at her. Not a good enough reason to create the result, but it still should be shocking to reasonable folk.

Sue

I have been blown away with Nifong's testimony. He didn't interview the accuser. He didn't read the report. He didn't read the discovery requests. He didn't do this. He didn't do that. He should be disbarred for incompetence if nothing else. He had one case, this one. And he didn't do anything a normal prosecutor would do. I for one enjoyed watching him squirm today. And his crocodile tears were icing on the cake. What a tool.

Sue

I still can't figure out why Nifong put himself through this. He should have just thrown himself on the mercy of the court, so to speak, and hoped for a suspension instead of revocation. They're going to revoke. The questions the panel were asking were not merely to stretch the day out.

cathyf
If the non guilty people would have cooperated and been more forthcoming with names perhaps Nifong could have had a more accurate line-up and some more corroberating evidence of who was in or near the master bedroom while the accuser was there.
As that a confession, sylvia? Since you were at the party, you know that you raped Magnum with a turkey baster, and squirted the semen of 5 separate men into her at that point, right? If you had just been cooperative, then Nifong wouldn't have been left twisting in the wind...
sylvia

"From what I have seen you are not well enough informed on this case to debate"

Sorry I know probably as much or if not more than anyone on here. Okay you gave me this:

""non-guilty" people came forward and Nifong refused to talk to them. Seligman and his dad went to Nifong's office to provide him with the receipts that proved his alibi, and Nifong sent out a subordinate to say he (Nifong) could read Seligman's lies in the paper."

That was AFTER the indictment, a little on the late side. I am talking about each and every person at the party submitting to private interviews in the beginning, which they did not do. That to me shows the appearance of something to hide. Instead they gave a group generic statement. Seligman, etc, tried to break ranks and clear his name after he was indicted, and I agree that Nifong SHOULD have listened to him, however Nifong at that point probably thought one indicted guy's words on where he was was not sufficiient, especially since his timeline differed than Seligman's exit from the house.

"Meanwhile Nifong refused to talk to the accused, the witness and the victim."

Hmm the accused and the victim kind of the same thing no? I don't know how often the DA has to talk to the accused at indictment time considereing he has investigators to do that and get the facts. Although I agree he probably should have, I don't think it changed the facts he received and the validity of bringing indictments.


"He also refused to read the investigative reports, and then coerced the DNA guy to lie."

The DNA guy explained that he was never asked to lie about the report. Aparently Nifong never got the extra DNA report, which means it never got into evidence.

Anyway, I'm not defending Nifong's conduct. What I'm criticizing is the strategy by the Duke players to not fully cooperate and give group interviews and name names and locations. If they had done that in the beginning, and if they had nothing to hide, this whole thing might have been averted.
Again, if they had nothing to hide - why didn't they do that?

sylvia

I tell you what Cathy - I am not a group follower. If I were at the party, I would have damned sure named names and spelled out who was where, when. I would have had nothing to hide.

clarice

Jane, actually Jane I think it more likely that precious changed her tune and yelled rape because they were about to charge her with Drunk and disorderly, subject her to a drug test and remove her children from her home. But I agree on Nifong's original motivation--and then I think he carried it over the top because he liked the adulation he was getting from the race baiters and so-called feminists. He went from a nothing to a national figure and all it took was screwing three guys.

clarice

I beg you all not to continue to engage with Miss pink unicorn.

sylvia

I beg you all not to engage with the resident blog bully.

Rick Ballard

Do not besmirch the good name of invisible pink unicorns everywhere. Miss HaleBopper will do just fine. Especially if you never have need to use it at all.

sylvia

Now that I had it confirmed to me today that there were, as I suspected, non-LAX players at the party, a whole new line of thinking can come from that.

I must admit that the only thing I don't know right now about this case, and need to look up, is where was the accuser on the day of the party. DNA was found in her anal region, and as a commentor correctly informed me a while back, such DNA would probably only remain there as long as the last bowel movement. That means that the DNA was probably deposited there that day or the night before. The fact that the accuser had freshly deposited sperm from at least 4 guys actually makes sense. Two were from her boyfriend and driver. Two others samples were from probably that day as the third attacker was supposed to have tried to engage in oral sex.

If her whereabouts were accounted for that day, that would leave the party. Since we know that not all people at the party were tested, that would lead to a high probability that the sperm may have been depositied at the party. Again, I don't see the supposed huge gaps in her credibility here. That everyone else does, to me, shows closed minds.

cathyf
As for the woman, my guess is that she was retaliating for the reported racist epthats being hurled at her. Not a good enough reason to create the result, but it still should be shocking to reasonable folk.
You are making up implausible explanations for something about which there is no mystery at all. Magnum was not just mildly inebrieted, she was falling down utterly blotto. She was, in fact, not lying that night, because in order for her to lie she had to actually have some idea of what really happened that night. Given the chemical stew coursing through her veins, there is simply no chance she had a clue about what happened.

Read that testimony -- the SANE nurse and the cops wrote down the manic ravings of a totally doped up diagnosed mentally-ill (manic-depression) woman in the throws of an acute psychotic episode. Then they took her ravings and combined them with a a whole raft of completely made-up details, and called it a police report.

Yeah, Magnum was, in fact, a victim -- of Nifong. Yeah, what he did to the LAX players was way worse than what he did to her, but on the other hand, she had absolutely no psychic resources to deal with it. This is somebody who needs to be locked up and medicated for her own good (and the good of the children whom she keeps giving birth to at the end of drug-and-booze-soaked pregnancies), but that is impossible given our current laws.

A lot of people seem to see Magnum as some sort of conspirator with Nifong. Bulls***. This poor damaged mentally-incapacitated woman was used by Nifong and flushed away like so much dirty kleenex.

sylvia

Okay one last comment. If you are all so convinced in the truthfulness and helpfulness of the Duke players, then let me ask this. Why did not the defense blogs emphasize the presence of non-LAX players at the party? Why didn't the defense, perhaps even on the defense blog, name these people to the prosecutors, and call for them to have their DNA tested as well? Why hasn't their DNA been tested?

Just asking.

sylvia

cathy - did you ever consider that drugged-up women have a higher likelihood of getting assaulted? I have a friend from college who can testify to that.

cathyf

Here's from the hearing:

The DHC chairman seems baffled by Nifong's approach to the unidentified male DNA issue.

Wm'son: Why no follow-up work done to identify the source of the unidentified male DNA, when it got put there, and how it got put there?

Nifong: Doesn't know.

The obvious question: why didn't they ask Mangum this information?

Panelist: Why didn't you stop and think that this unidentified male DNA could belong to the perpetrators?

Nifong: No, this did not occur to me.

cathyf
...did you ever consider that drugged-up women have a higher likelihood of getting assaulted? I have a friend from college who can testify to that.
So, when you hear about a drunk driver who gets her car plowed into in an accident, do you conclude that the drunk driver was "assaulted" by the person in the other car?
RalphL

I sure hope college "boys" and older ones will think twice about hiring strippers for parties. They should visit strip clubs and get ripped off in relative safety.

According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the overwhelming majority of female strippers and prostitutes were molested/raped/beaten when they were young.

RalphL

When I was growing up in Alexandria, VA, the city's Commonwealth's Attorney (Nifong equivalent) lived two doors down the street. His eldest son was in prison for drug dealing, his youngest later went into the business and stabbed a man, and the daughter threw wild parties usually visited by the police when her parents were gone.

Cowhig (what a name! we called the son Cowpig, no wonder they were all nuts) first got into trouble over a Montessori school bingo game (forget what), then it came out he was plea bargaining with oral sex from defendants' girlfriends. Last I heard he was a baker in Florida.

donald

Syliva, has to Sylvester and having a good time. Otherwise...I shudder.

donald

"Has to be". Sorry bout that.

Jane

You are making up implausible explanations for something about which there is no mystery at all.

No I'm not. I'm telling you what my initial impression was when the story was first reported. I don't live in the south, which might be all the difference, but the first story I heard about the Duke case involved the other stripper calling the police because Duke students in that house were yelling racial epithats at some black women walking by. I have no idea if that story is true, but my northern lily white reaction was one of being extremely pissed off that these entitled kids were hiring black strippers to hurl racial stuff at them.

Now maybe that was all made up, but when it happened it certainly sounded like motive to me. I'm not vouching that went down, but since it was my initial impression, I don't think it is all that implausible.

Sue

Kim Roberts said that the first racial slurs were issued by her and the accuser. White boys and their lack of size in the penis department. My daddy always said don't throw the first punch if you can't take a hit. I also think I read that only one person at the party was using racial slurs and he was not one of the accused. Either way, a stupid incident turned into a criminal event because Nifong refused to do his job. And for further proof of that, watch the news today. He will be disbarred. As he should be.

Sue

I have no idea if that story is true, but my northern lily white reaction was one of being extremely pissed off that these entitled kids were hiring black strippers to hurl racial stuff at them.

How north to do you have to be to be lilly white? The 3 accused players are from New York and New Jersey. I don't know the makeup of the entire team at the time. It would be interesting to know where they lived prior to becoming Duke students.

Rick Ballard

KC Johnson is covering closing arguments.

Pofarmer

Heard clips of Nifong crying on the stand.

Toughen up buttercup. You could sure dish it out.

cathyf
Something happened to make everybody leave that scene very quickly.
Well, yeah. A couple of carefree young men set out to throw a party with naughty entertainment. The "entertainment" turned out to include a mentally-ill woman doping herself to near-unconsciousness in the midst of an acute psychotic episode. A woman whose long history of manic-depression features the common pattern of becoming paranoid and abusive to random targets when inebrieted.

Gee, talk about sucking all the fun out of a party. So Nifong thinks that it is completely inconceivable that the guys would simply not feel so much like partying after witnessing that? I guess that tells us a lot about him, doesn't it.

Sue

Cathy,

The police had been called to that house in the past for noise and underage drinking. I imagine they fled with merely the threat of the police being called.


Toughen up buttercup. You could sure dish it out.

Who's laughing now?

At an earlier hearing, Nifong laughed out loud when Seligmann's lawyer said his client had an airtight alibi, Smith said.


RalphL

IIRC, when I applied to Duke 3 decades ago, only about a third were from the South. I doubt that's changed much.

SlimGuy

Just from looking at the KC blogging of the hearings, his editorial comments that he bolds into the coverage show Nifong is admitting to almost all the specifications against him.

One almost wonders why he even challenged the issues at all except for him to get closure by offering public penance.

SlimGuy

Clarice

The medical profession , partially in a self preservation mode , but always historically there have mortality review boards that look at the effect of procedures and methods used with a sharp eye towards deviations from generally accepted practices and methodologies.

If the medical profession can create a review process that exposes abnormalities with their case load, it is likely that a similar review process could be implemented to do the same for the legal profession.

The only drawback is that these after action reviews for lessons learned in one case cannot raise the dead, but in the other it can result in briefs to higher level courts that can effect the outcome.

I support a review process for the legal profession as an outsider. Otherwise we can continue happily on until the wheels fall off.

RalphL

SG, you may be right. He must be an addict for public attention of any kind at this point. A normal person would want to crawl into a hole.

Rick Ballard

Slim,

He's fighting for a suspension and retention of immunity (and pension). The cards we can't see involve his knowledge (gained over 28 years) of corner cutting deals cut by those presuming to judge him. The bar association is facing an interesting conundrum.

Nifong is so used to cutting deals that his attempt to cut one more is not surprising.

SlimGuy

Ralphl

The only option going forward I see for him at this point is for him to look at his bank balance and figure out how to spend it on lavish self indulgence that leaves no physical assets that can be claimed for liquidation.

Simply just use it or lose it.

SlimGuy

Rick

No matter what the bar does, he clearly has painted a self imposed target on his back that give him a liability that any competent tort lawyer could body slam him with.

The transcript of the bar proceedings only add fuel to the fire.

He is toast no matter how it all plays out and rightly so because it was through his own considered choices and not accidents of circumstances.

clarice

Don't miss what Elliott has compiled and posted on the Libby thread.

Rick Ballard

Slim,

Prosecutors are immune from tort liability for their actions (or inactions) wrt performance of their duties. I'm not even positive that disbarment would be sufficient to expose him to tort liability but I'm fairly sure that suspension does not.

SlimGuy

If the bar leaves him with any scrap of immunity to tort shield it will be met with a firestorm of reasoned backlash.

They have good reason to throw him under the bus and not protect their own.

He is a pox on the legal community that should get all he deserves.

Some people are thrown in the volcano as a sacrifice to the horrid alternative to calm the ragging masses, but this guy doesn't fit in that class.

Jane

How north to do you have to be to be lilly white?

A friend of mine who lives on Nantucket has a son who goes to school in No. Carolina. He loves it down there, but was really freaked out at the racially charged speech that lots of people use every day - and he reported that it is generally not considered racially charged to a lot of people. But he had a hard time getting used to it, and commented on that often in his first year.

I'm not terribly politically correct so that doesn't bother me a lot, but I too would find it shocking and tough to get used to. Of course I'm talking about speech that is friendly, not intended to be insulting - which probably means this post has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about (sorry).

I do wish I could see this closing on TV.

Charlie (Colorado)

The action occurred alledgedly in the bathroom with the door closed. It probably occurred over just a few minutes.

Sylvia, honey, I've been in the bathrooms of some of those houses, maybe even that house (after 20 years I'm no longer certain.)

You couldn't have a gang rape in one of those bathrooms because you couldn't get a gang into one. If you wanted to get two lacrosse players into one of those bathrooms, one of them would have to stand in the bathtub.

SlimGuy

Rick

I am aware of that and it does not make my heart glad in any way.

I have seen local politicians covered by that escape clause even in the most objectionable of cases.

That is why I support a legal profession after action review board as I described above to at least rein them in before they damage the system beyond repair.

SlimGuy

Jane

Your story reflects the fact that our country is more mobile than it has ever been in the past and exposes themselves to viewpoints other than their close knit communities of record.

Heck even here in Fla I can look at Jacksonville where nothing moves unless it gets the blessing of the 1st Baptist Church which has one of those mega congregations.

Go to Palm Beach or Miami or Key West and the only thing in common is the number of legs on the occupants.

Charlie (Colorado)

If the medical profession can create a review process that exposes abnormalities with their case load, it is likely that a similar review process could be implemented to do the same for the legal profession.

Actually, Slim, the legal profession has made a good start on wiping out the mortality&morbidity panels instead. See, other docs, and any presentation materials, can be subpoenaed ....

SlimGuy

Charlie

I can believe that, it would have to be a treasure trove of malpractice info.

Perhaps since the process does advance the better good it deserves a legal shielding similar to that nebulous "work product" that lawyers and others claim.

windansea

Again, if they had nothing to hide - why didn't they do that?

Silence of the players

These Nifong statements also were misleading--knew on March 27 that the three captains had cooperated.

Nifong: "Why are they so unwilling to tell us in their own words what happened here?"

Jane

Wendy Murphy on Fox prattling on and on about how the woman should now be prosecuted - because she wasted so much money (so now wendy wants to waste more??)

Wasn't it Wendy who was defending Nifong all along on this thing?

SlimGuy

Rick

The tort immunity bubble works only until someone steps out of the bubble.

A friend of mine had a running gun battle with a building and zoning inspector for the longest time where the inspector made the play to screw my buds and just stuck his tongue out at him because he knew he could.

But then he stepped out of the bubble when he ran his truck onto his property and spun donuts in the yard of his newly sodded lawn and ran down his pump house and then pulled his truck over to the cattle pens and shot 2 prize brahma bulls and 4 prize black angus bulls.. All this activity was caught on video tape from the security cameras I installed for him about two weeks before the incident in question.

Even after the videos were presented in court, the fool tried to explain how he accidentally discharge over 70 shots with multiple magazine changes into the bull pens.

Rick Ballard

Jane,

Murphy still hasn't noted Mangum's teeny tiny mental defect which seems to be exacerbated by alcohol and drugs? A real compassion queen, that one. She needn't worry about having looked the fool in this instance. Nobody will ever accuse her of being the brightest light on the string under any circumstance.

Slim,

Immunity covers official acts and business. It doesn't cover anything and everything. If you step on the porch of a prosecutors house, punch through the rotten deck and suffer from it, you can sue to your hearts content (although it wouldn't be classed as the smartest move ever made).

SlimGuy

Rick

There are times and issues when you have to be choosing between the admittedly not to smart and having a sack.

Luckily they are few and far between.

windansea

Committee is unanimous on all issues on all the contested issues in the case.

1) Extrajudicial statements: Yes.
2) Did Nifong know that these statements would be disseminated? Yes.
3) Did Nifong know that these statements would materially prejudice proceeding? Yes.
4) Did Nifong statements have substantial likelihood of heightening public condemnation of accused? Yes. Note of explanation: The "accused" in this instance includes the set of suspects (the lacrosse players). Not necessary to make finding as a legal matter that they were actually indicted.

5) By making misleading statements to media, did Nifong engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation? No. The one statement at issue on this point (possible use of condoms) no worse than certain others that were not alleged to involve dishonesty--such as the statement to the effect that the accused were not cooperating. Therefore, not appropriate to pick out this statement as the worst of the group.

windansea

6) Failure to provide DNA evidence report failed to provide necessary exculpatory evidence? Yes; Failed to make reasonably diligent effort to deal with discovery effort? Yes.

7) Failure to provide memorializations of Meehan statements: (a) fail to make timely disclosure of exculpatory evidence? Yes. (If anything, Bar's charge was too narrow. (b) failed to make reasonably diligent effort to comply with discovery request? No. [AG had taken position that prosecutors did not need to provide such memorializations, though this is no longer the law.]

8) Failure to provide complete report of all Meehan tests (a) failed to make timely disclosure to defense all material required by law and court opinions? Yes. (b) failed to disclose evidence or information that he should have known was subject to disclosure under applicable law. Yes.

windansea

9) Failure to provide memorializations of Meehan oral reports (a) failed to make timely disclosure to defense of exculpatory evidence? Yes. (b) failed to disclose evidence or information that he knew was subject to disclosure under applicable law? Yes.

10) Instruction of Meehan to have report only positive matches? YES. (b) request a person other than a client to refrain from voluntarily giving information to another party? No.

11) False statements of material fact to court? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

windansea

12) False statements of material fact to opposing counsel? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

13) Failure to disclose everything re DSI report to court--false statements to court? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

windansea

14) False claim that all Meehan oral statements included in his report? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

15) Falsely implying to court that he was not aware of DNA results at start of 12-15 hearing? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

16) False statements to State Bar that privacy concerns played a role in Meehan report? No. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? No.

17) False statements to State Bar that Meehan report did not include exculpatory evidence? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES.

18) False statements to State Bar that his 12-15 statements referred to alleged charges against him by Duke defendants' lawyers? Yes. (b) conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, misrepresentation, deceit? YES. [Notes the consensus of the hearing committee on the above issues: worry that such charges are extremely rare and fear tha such charges might have chilling effect in normal cases.]

SlimGuy

Rick

I see your point of the issues raised of legal culpability being raised by mortality and morbidity review boards and a parallel issue could derive from a similar situated legal practice review board.

At the moment most of the corrective mechanism relies on the higher courts in the appeal process.

Most will admit that it is a rare circumstance when the bar associations step in to review a situation. Part of this is for all the same reasons.

But many of the general public believe that we can't just rely on the separation of powers among the various branches and that some manner of self regulation that is credible and neutral should rise to the occasion.

If the only solution is more active participation by bar associations to step up to the plate, then I welcome it with open arms unless they over react. But clearly something has to be done to restore clarity here. To simply ignore it is not the solution and only invites unwanted supervision from one of the other branches they will cause all sort of unintended side effects.

windansea

19) Conduct prejudicial to the administration of justice? Yes.

windansea

all of the above plus comments at

http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/

windansea

Nifong mentioned 337,000 times in google search--only favorable mention of Nifong came from his own website; presented image of NC to the country.

SlimGuy

Apparently Nifong is going to be done as fried chicken a little extra crispy.

I am now reading the after charges phase of the issue to determine the level of what will be applied to him.

As Rick pointed out, he still has his bubble.

Does anyone know how this bubble can be broken and has this person reached that level or is the bubble a total protection that can't be attacked?

windansea

Just for Sylvia

Zash, Evans, and Flannery did exactly what a prosecutor and police would want--cooperated fully. Gave statements from 5-7 hours, written statements, DNA offer, 7-page written statement by Dave; this statement basically a carbon copy of the AG's report. Went to police uncounseled; had not called either of his parents.

Dean Sue from Duke advised them to cooperate fully and tell the truth if police came to them.

"Floored" by Nifong statements that there was a stonewall of silence and that players wouldn't cooperate.

windansea

Nifong(previously):

the players would only need attorneys if they were guilty.

David Evans (father of accused)

I notice Mr. Nifong has lawyers

Stobo Blobo

sylvia-

Yes I know - debate is painful, especially when it goes against your mantra. I'm sorry to have to do this to you all, but this topic interests me as much as the Libby case interests many of you, and I realize my opinion is as aggravating to you as you are to many lefties on this topic. They try to pooh pooh and case-close the Libby case as well, but we know better than that, don't we?

sylvia, I know you are incapable of understanding what I am about to say, but I'll say it anyways, just for kicks!

The reason normal people dread debating you isn't because they are intimidated after having observed a great thinker like you use logic impeccably in the formulation of your arguments, it's because people on the Sane side are aware of the great risk for mental anguish involved when you people from the Nutty side of the tracks are taken seriously enough to debate. :)

Stobo Blobo

sylvia-

I beg you all not to engage with the resident blog bully.

sylvia, can you tell me what it is with people who think GWB is a fascist stealing their rights, who believe he is more dishonest than WJC, who hate him more than Saddam, who express more anger towards the Duke LAX boys than they do Nifong, and who ludicrously insult very decent and respectful people like clarice?

clarice

Thanks, Stobo. Ages ago I tried to engage Sylvia only to realize sentient people cannot because she just makes up new stuff when you prove her wrong on her other stuff. It's in short an utter waste of time and pixels.

SunnyDay

It is soooooooooooooo good to watch Nifong get his. Such a phoney baloney with crocodile tears. Now, he needs to go to jail.

Thank God for the NC AG. Elect that man to something really important. He put aside every other interest except the interests of justice and doing what's right.

windansea

David Freedman, Mike Nifong's attorney, has just announced that Nifong has accepted that disbarment is an "appropriate" penalty, and has accepted both disbarment and waived the right to appeal.

windansea

Panel has not ruled yet but Nifong knows he is toast

Jane

Nifong(previously):

the players would only need attorneys if they were guilty.

David Evans (father of accused)

I notice Mr. Nifong has lawyers

This is a little slice of heaven.

I think it is odd that Nifong's attorney made that announcement before the verdict, even if the writing is on the wall.

So is the panel deliberating now? Is that what is going on? You know given the damage to the NC bar they can reach no other verdict.

I so wish the same could happen to Fitz, but his is a much more complicated breach of ethics.

PeterUK.

Loolkj like Nifong is toast

RalphL

Jane, in college down here years ago, I never heard anything racist or much that was even rude. In the 15 years I've lived in Alamance Co, NC, which now has more Mexicans than Yankees, the only remotely anti-black words were from Democrats, the most virulent from a gay, Bush-hating Democratic party officer.

From what little I've seen of recent college life, many blacks have self-segregated, which probably really irritates the white boys who want to be cool.

windansea

So is the panel deliberating now?

yep..should be done in 5 minutes, you can catch it on KC Johnson's blog

windansea

Looks like Nifong is toast

the toaster oven is on fire as well

Jane

Boy Johnson has done one heck of a job, hasn't he?

Ralph,

It was the liberal and constant use of the 'n" word that freaked out my friend's son. It would freak me out to. I can swear like a trooper, but I can honestly say the "n" word has never escaped these lips. We just don't say that around here -

windansea

I wonder if Fitz is watching this and experiencing a tightening sphincter muscle

Jane

Disbarred!

PeterUK.

"Disbarred!"

Does that mean he will have to eke out a living as a stripper at frat parties,or will he move in with Sylvia?

windansea

or will he move in with Sylvia?

ever notice how Sylvia never posts when the Fonger is in court? :)

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