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June 02, 2007



OT- heh. My problem with Edwards was that he said he "doesn't know what rich is", but tax-wise, it would be around $200,000. Granted, that's good money. But when he can make that kind of money making 4 speeches to universities (which are apparently too expensive), how much does he appreciate how hard people that make $200,000 actually work?

I think they've got to get beyond the idea that people making $200,000 are the nation's ATM machine.


h&r says...

...No direct global warming questions?
That can only mean one thing. Gore must run!

Now that would get me drinking again. Have one for me h&r


Jeff Dobbs

Chris Dodd has a chart that shows how much time each candidate spent talking in the debate...

Obama 16:00
Clinton 14:26
Edwards 11:42
Richardson 10:48
Kucinich 9:02
Dodd 8:28
Biden 7:58
Gravel 5:37

Oh and Blitzer 13:24


I had no idea that Wolf Blitzer decided to throw his hat in the ring. I suppose the field is pretty thin, and why not, if an actor can be a president, and a president an actor, why not have a newsman: Blitzer2008


JM Hanes

An amusing postscript from CNN:

Columnist and author Eric Alterman was arrested Sunday night inside the debate spin room and charged with criminal trespass after police say he refused repeated orders to leave.

And if you enjoy the quality snark at JOM, you'll probably enjoy the other hit & run show too. By way of a trailer:

On Hillary & healthcare:

You don't need a plan, apparently, as long as you break the back of the insurance companies and make them accept your will.

On Blitzer to Richardson:

"Gov. Richardson, you're kind of a Mexican. Should we kick out all the Mexicans?" (I'm paraphrasing.)
So goes it. Any volunteers to scout out the nutroots reaction, so that I don't have to do that either? It's a lot to ask, I know.

JM Hanes


Please tell me you made that deer sausage yourself!


This is honest to goodness what Alterman posted in the comment section:

“Top of the World, Ma”
Ok, here’s what happened.

I came to New Hampshire with the Creative Coalition for a panel tomorrow morning and was supposed to be in the auditorium for the debate but because I am a journalist, they were told I would have to wait in the spin room. When I got to the spin room, which was an empty gymnasium, I noticed that there were chairs located on a balcony above us. So I went up there–no one asked me for my ID or anything–and went over to the bar and asked if it was a cash bar, because I had no idea what kind of event it was. I was told it was an open bar so I asked for a glass of wine and a glass of water and went to sit down and wait for the event to begin.

A guy came over and asked me who I was and I told him I was a colmunist for The Nation and he told me I had to leave. I thought he was kind of rude, so I asked him his name, thinking it might go into Altercation the next day. He refused to answer me I asked again. He refused again. But I was following him out when he went to get a cop. The cop told me to leave the room and I did. We left the room, past where the people were handing out badges to go into the reception and I figured the entire drama was over. But the cop kept yelling at me to leave. I didn’t understand. I thought I had left. I asked him to stop yelling, I had left. He kept telling me to leave. In retrospect, I guess he was kicking me out of the building and I didn’t understand, but it was really mystifying and annoying and I told him I wanted to speak to his commanding officer.

We went over to the commanding officer and I, calmly and politely, sought to explain that I didn’t know why this cop was continuing to hassle me. The first cop kept interrupting me as I tried to explain myself and finally I turned around and said, “Can I please finish a sentence here?” That’s when the first cop decided to arrest me. He handcuffed me behind my back and took me outside.

(A funny aside, Congressman Ed Markey happen to walk by then and came over to say hello to me and stuck out his hand for a shake. I had to say, “Sorry, Ed, I’m being handcuffed.” He laughed, and told the officers that he would vouch for my character and walked away.)

Anyway, I never refused to leave and the only time I raised my voice was when the first cop would not let me explain what I had thought was a massive misunderstanding to his commanding officer. Once I was arrested and brought to the Goffstown station, I actually had a pretty nice time with the cops there, who were very friendly and understanding of my situation. When they learned I was a writer and planned to write about this incident, they wanted to make sure that I knew that the cop who had arrested me was not one of theirs, but was from another town and had been working on an “reciprocity” arrangement.

I paid a $30 to be released and the whole thing took about 45 minutes. I filed a written report with the police explaining that I thought the arresting officer had treated me unfairly, and I do think this was the case, but I now think it was based on a misunderstanding on just where he wanted me to stay and where he wanted me to leave.

In any case, I spoke to CNN and I believe they will correct some of the misimpressions created by their first story. Just to be clear, I did not refuse to leave seven times and I did not, as far as I know, raise my voice, except for that last time.

For the record, I also don’t remember anyone reading me my Miranda rights, though I don’t know if that is ultimately going to matter. I have a court date in July but I am hoping to be able to clear it up before I leave tomorrow because it strikes me as mosty, a misunderstanding.
Posted By Eric Alterman : June 3, 2007 10:25 pm


Jane: How are you?
As an old school dem I recall when JFK promised to end the world as we know it because he KNEW WMD existed 90 miles from our shore. A real man who was a real leader.
As i look upon the world today..i worry that we have become Rome falling..weak kneed full of BS on our side of the room.
Would FDR run crying like a spineless baby?
Would Truman be afraid to end the war with overpowering strength?
Would Kennedy stand against the forces of darkness and cry an american president lied?
An american President lied? think about it..Not since i served in Nam during Nixon has anyone cried such a charge..with no proof. When you face the forces of darkness..someone must stand in the gap, for us. for america. for our way of life.
I do stand ashamed..I have never voted for any repub in my life..I feel we must bring our party back to american values...But i swear to god i will never vote for hillary or any pol that has sold us out..
My youngest son arrives in Iraq 9/17. Do you possibly think I won't support him with my blood, my heart, my vote?
I end tonights debate with tears on the keyboard..this is where america has advanced too..weak knees,weak policy,weak strength, weak heart...
Sorry, my boy just called and i feel in an abysis.....
But cleo baby...I allow you to insult me a fellow dem, and i do not call you on the carpet..nor insult you like you do me...
When you make millions a year and make a difference (in this world) in your life like i do in one day i'll give you your props...otherwise you have just fancy words
and no actions..just political words that have no meaning..go do something for mankind to save our world. ( problem with that? Read my profile cleo..talk is cheap)
Crap..the Crown is talking..I am so sorry..
Forgive me, Last year I had Dinner with President Bush and although i am a lifelong democrat with an Aunt in Congress I would never disrespect our president..
We can disagree but don't disrespect our leaders. How times have changed....

Other Tom

For those who were wondering how long it would take before we started hearing that the JFK plot wasn't really a threat, wait no longer. Excerpt from the New York Times (who else?):

"But the criminal complaint filed by the federal authorities against the four defendants in the case — one of them, Abdel Nur, remained at large yesterday — suggests a less than mature terror plan, a proposed effort longer on evil intent than on operational capability.

"(Ms. Mauskopf noted in her news release that the 'public was never at risk' and told reporters that law enforcement 'had stopped this plot long before it ever had a chance to be carried out.')"

Just another case of egregious trampling on the civil liberties of the innocent. Nothing blew up, nobody got hurt, what's the big deal?


Yeah, I have a long memory that can go way back to 6 years ago. When the FBI didn't think they should investigate a bunch of bozos learning to fly planes in Arizona, and didn't think they had the right to look at the hard drive of Mossaoui.

JM Hanes

Lordy, hoosier, you don't need to apologize to anybody! Not to one single soul.


Going back to the middle of this thread, pre-live debate blogging, I want to ask a simple question of Cleo or anyone else who thinks they have the answer.

Please explain how outing Valerie Plame Wilson would or could discredit Joe Wilson?

This is a question I've been trying to figure out for three or four years now and I can't figure out the reasoning.

JM Hanes

Cleo has been asking questions that she won't answer herself, since she originally showed up. As long as she can divert attention her way, she doesn't really care about other people's answers either.


Yippee, I'm rich! And all this time I thought I was just making ends meet.


This thread is hysterical!! Jane, thanx for the live blogging; this has been the funniest debate I didn't watch ;-)

Jeff Dobbs

Please tell me you made that deer sausage yourself!

No. We killed it in TX and had it processed there and shipped here. They made the sausage....


According to Frank Luntz, Edwards won the debate.

Perhaps that is why I'm not as worried about some about a democrat in the WH - I mean would the majority of Americans elect Edwards?

Jeff Dobbs

May I recommend Jim Geraghty's liveblogging and recap of the debate?

But only after you read Jane's above. Jim comes in a few pegs below the quality of dear Jane's, but a good source nonetheless.

He says Obama the winner, but with very littly confidence. Says everyone is pretty much the same on policy (of the 1st and 2nd tier anyway).


Jim probably blogged sans pinot grigio.

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