Powered by TypePad

« Read Closely! | Main | Stare Decisis »

June 25, 2007

Comments

clarice

"But, if you were a CEO, and heard your internal counsel wanted to speak with you directly about a significant compliance issue, I don't think you'd be satisfied if you just let the counsel talk with the VP who is a major supporter of the policy the general counsel wants to talk about. "

If I were the CEO and Ashcroft were my counsel I'd tell him, "My door is always open to you," and then I'd tell my Secretary to never let him in.

Bush, I am told on very good authority, called Ashcroft in on 9/12/2001 and publicly blamed him for the disaster--He was after all in charge of the doofus FBI and had left in place the idiotic Gorelick wall.

OnTheThirdRail

From Walton's Opinion:

Pg 7 - he says that Fitzgerald was tasked with investigating members of the executive branch.

Sorry but that was not what I read in the appointment letter - he was supposed to find the source of the leak. He apparently knew it before the investigation even began

Page 9 - apparently Walton thinks if you are assigned a single task you have limited tenure - even if it takes you 75, 80, heck a 1000 years.

page 12 & 13 "...authority granted to Fitz by the Comey letters... do not confer... the prosecutorial equivalent of James Bond's license to kill..."

You've got to be kidding me?!?!?


OnTheThirdRail

More of Walton's funny logic:

If CIPA filings could only by certain individuals and could not be delegated to Fitz then he is an inferior officer

Gosh this guy sure is working overtime to try and not get overturned for someone who doesn't even think these questions are close!!!

clarice

Thnx.I've had brain lock brought on by the chaos of home renovations and can't bear to spend much time reading this drivel any more--those are doozies, all right.
Though Fitz' CIPA argument is even more ridiculous and jmh was the good sport to put on her thinking cap and skewer those.

JM Hanes

Appalled:

"It is a few people who tend to do that -- I could name some names, but that's even more inflammatory than just leaving the comment more ambiguous."

Well frankly, ambiguity is precisely what made the comment offensive, IMO, but I'll leave it at that, and just note that the list of logical fallacies which folks use -- both deliberately and inadvertently -- in the attempt to control arguments, is a long one!

manys

@Sara:
Can you direct me to where in the Constitution these provisions are in regard to impeachment?

Very funny. The only Constitutional rule for presiding over an impeachment says that the Chief Justice presides over an impeachment of the President. That's it.

Sue

Wasn't it Bush that met with Comey personally to find a way to get around the problem the Justice Department had with NSA? I know I read that somewhere but I can't remember where and don't really feel like looking for it since I don't really care if Cheney told them to take a hike. The wall needed to come down and I'm glad Cheney had the cajones to drive the jackhammer into the middle of it.

JM Hanes

Clarice:

You've been entirely too kind on the CIPA front, and I have to admit there's plenty of fodder still left untouched, but I just couldn't face it any more myself. It takes time for the logical circuits to regenerate! And when you're renovating you also have to figure out where your brain ended up first.

clarice

I hsave no idea where I put anything, Jane--and before this it was in nice big piles where I could find everything in a flash!

Sue, you're memory is the same as mine. After Comey's drama queen performance in the hospital, Bush extended the program on his own and met with Comey to tell him what he'd done indicating he'd await a proposal for a fix from DoJ and NSA which happened in 7 days--This suggests to me Comey could have worked this out without the squabble at Aschcroft's bedside if only he'd tried.

Other Tom

"...nobody is willing to buy medical insurance until they think they'll need it,,,"

I quarrel with the "nobody," and cite myself as an example. As for those who are indeed unwilling to buy it until they think they'll need ut, that's a matter of choice. But please don't ask me to bail them out if their choice turns out to be a wrong one. Why on earth should I feel obliged to do so? What moral imperative compels any such response on my part? I don't ask them to take care of me, and I'd like the same sort of respect in return.

The notion of "insurance" has been entirely eclipsed over the past half century, as it applies to health care. What is described as health insurance these days is really expected to be simply a pre-paid medical plan, with enormous effort devoted to causing other people to do the bulk of the paying.

Let us turn our attention to those who "can't afford" health insurance. Do you want them to be helped from the public trough? Fine, but certainly those who labor to fill that trough are entitled, first, to know such matters as "what kind of car does the aggrieved drive? Is it, perchance, a gas-guzzling SUV? Then shouldn't we require him to ditch it in favor of a high-fuel-economy small car, and devote the savings to defraying the cost the rest of us are asked to bear?" And, "does this fellow have a high-definiton TV? If so, is it too much to aske that he turn it in for a less expensive model, again so that the rest of us needn't subsidize him quite so much?"

I assume that you would readily agree that every person with one or more children enrolled in a private school is automatically disqualified from receving taxpayer moneys to defray his health insurance costs--right? And if not, why on earth not?

And etcetera...

clarice

**have
**your memory

clarice

Reports out of Afghanistan are than Iranian soldiers have crossed into that country.Other reports have Iranian troops crossing into southern Iraq.


From NRO we get this:
"Phares - The Hand of Iran and Syria in Gaza [W. Thomas Smith Jr.]


Walid Phares checks in:
This report quoting Palestinian authorities accusing Iranian and Syrian intelligence of fomenting the "coup" in Gaza corroborates our analysis of last week putting the Hamas takeover in the framework of the Iranian offensive on the eastern Mediterranean. The PA [Palestinian Authority] intelligence branch is now exposing the emerging hand of Tehran and Damascus we were expecting to see.
.
In previous analysis for "The Tank," in interviews, and in forthcoming articles, I have argued that Hamas was literally ordered by the Tehran-Damascus axis to seize Gaza fully in a move corresponding with an offensive along the eastern Mediterranean north and south of Israel in Lebanon and in Gaza. The analysis I developed wasn't only about the actual Iranian support of Hamas — we knew about that — but it was primarily about the strategic command and control the Iranian regime has over Hamas and Islamic Jihad. This development, in addition to crumbling the academic fallacy that Hamas is just an "independent liberation movement" reveals a regional terror dimension this group has with all of its geopolitical consequences.
Phares' previous analysis."

It looks to me that the Iranians are taking the Dems' and their running dogs in the press at their word--that they will hamstring the President so he cannot respond this summer when Iran begins its full offensive.

I'll just be they want Edwards or Hillary! or Barak Hussein Obama at the helm.

clarice

**"I'll just beT*******

Pal2Pal (Sara)

Very funny. The only Constitutional rule for presiding over an impeachment says that the Chief Justice presides over an impeachment of the President. That's it.

I don't know what you find funny. You are the one who told me that Reynolds was wrong because there are provisions for the President Pro Tempore to preside over impeachment of a Vice President. There are none such provisions as far as I can find.

As I read it:

Clause 4: The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

Clause 5: The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States.

Clause 6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Clause 7: Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

The President Pro Tempore sits in the absence of the VP or when the VP becomes President. (I guess assuming a new VP hasn't been appointed yet.)

Since there is no reason for a VP to be absent during his own impeachment proceedings, since he would be the VP until or unless impeached, I would say Reynolds is correct.

Sue

Actually, I think Bush met with Comey after the hospital visit, but I could be wrong on the timeline. But either way, Bush was involved with the DoJ on fixing the problem they saw with it. To pretend Cheney cut them off at the pass without Bush's knowledge is to buy the Rove is Bush's brain and Cheney his mouth. If they would put Cheney back out front and center, the polls might come back up. At least Cheney can string 3 words together (and that doesn't mean I've turned on Bush. Like a parent with a child, I see his flaws but I also see his strengths, and public speaking isn't one of them).

Maybeex

Yes, Sue, absolutely. Bush met with Comey the day after the hospital confrontation. It's stated in Comey's testimony right after he talks about the drama.

topsecretk9

I'd like to see Bush put some pressure on the DOJ to apply the same Libby/Rove model aggressive pursuit on actual damaging leaks (NSA-CIA retention-SWIFT) - and tell the appointed heads of the various victimized agencies to tell their people to actually return calls and not blow the off the FBI-DOJ investigating.

Josh Gerstein's report on his FOIA win on leak investigations was pathetic and illustrated what a sham the Valerie Plame non-leak investigation of nothing was.

That Bush isn't cracking heads after Gerstein's embarrassment of bureaucrat do nothings agenda mongers - AND after the Fitzgerald joke- is a HUGE disappointment.

JM Hanes

Sue:

Wish I could offer up a citation, but I remembering reading somewhere that the DoJ had been routinely re-approving the NSA program and were taken totally by surprise when Comey said no. While the decision to recertify may have been made by Ashcroft & Comey before Ashcroft went into the hospital, Comey apparently didn't communicate that decision to the powers that be till after Ashcroft had been admitted -- which is a point that somehow didn't come up in the hearing.

In other words, the White House had no reason to think that the program wouldn't be recertified till the very last minute, and given the timing and circumstances, they may have been wondering if Comey atually had Ashcroft's approval -- or had, himself, taken advantage of Ashcroft's incapacity. I admit to wondering if Ashcroft & Comey hadn't officially finalized the decision before he took to bed, because I could swear there's a piece of whole rush-to-the-hospital narrative that's still MIA.

JM Hanes

***that would be the decision NOT to recertify***

topsecretk9

JMH

I remembering reading somewhere that the DoJ had been routinely re-approving the NSA program and were taken totally by surprise when Comey said no.

This I recall as well and your entire --Posted by: JM Hanes | June 25, 2007 at 11:30 PM-- encapsulates exactly the whole situation most excellently.

I found myself a few times wondering just who was exploiting Ashcroft's illness [time].

clarice

jmh, that's exactly so--we had an entire thread on it.

BTW here's a hint on how this stupid comprehensive immigration bill is doomed to fail in operation--something the airheads on the Hill would know if they weren't insulated from real life.

http://www.examiner.com/a-797431~Federal_bureaucracy_already_swamped_by_legal_immigration.html>Quagmire

Looking_For_a_Way_out

Well Maguire, you've gone round the bend on this one. Okay, option one, Ashcroft recuses himself from the case because of the involvement of Karl Rove, who worked on Ashcroft's last senate campaign. Option two, Ashcroft sets out to bring down Dick Cheney and to keep Dick from shutting the trap down he recuses himself and with Comey sets up Fitzgerald. Either way Scooter is still guilty, right? One question, was Tenet also out to get Cheney and part of this plan, maybe Wilson too, maybe all of those CIA guys who provided the Plame info to OVP? Maybe they all did it to trip up Dick.....

And Clarice, this:

"BECAUSE they were cut out of the loop we have achieved a miracle--6 years without another attack. God Bless Cheney and Yoo and Addington and Libby for that!"

Is the most useless piece of of fearmongering partisan BS I have ever seen you write. Cheney Addington and Libby were all right there doing their jobs on 9/11/2001. If I want to find National Security heroes they wouldn't be the ones asleep at the switches for the biggest act of international terrorism ever to take place against our country. You'd think no one expected Bin Ladin to strike within the US. Ooops the CIA did write that PDB didn't they?

clarice

Thanks to Gore's never ending campaign and the unprecedented failure to help make the transition on time, these guys were barely in office when this tragedy occurred, Looking--a tragedy that had been in the making for years.

Bill in AZ

Looking... you don't need to look any further that Fitzgerald to figure out why 9/11 occurred. Fitz was THE foremost expert on Bin Laden prior to 9/11. As lead prosecutor for SDNY during multiple terrorist prosecutions, he was in a position and in fact did know everything there was to know about terrorist plans in this country and abroad. In typical Fitz fashion, he hopelessly confused perps and victims, and disconnected dots as fast as they appeared.

Why don't you ask Fitz what he knew and when he knew it?


MikeS

fearmongering partisan BS

Isn't fear mongering two words?

Other Tom

"If I want to find National Security heroes they wouldn't be the ones asleep at the switches for the biggest act of international terrorism ever to take place against our country."

And I suppose you certainly wouldn't want to include anyone who slept through Twin Towers I, Khobar Towers, the African embassies and USS Cole, would you? (For those who are just tuning in, that would be Messrs. Clinton, Gore, Berger, Tenet [sic] et al.) And of course you similarly would not want to bestow any laurels on those heroes who snoozed throught the opportunities to take custody of bin Laden, would you? (But as Clinton reminded us, "we just didn't have enough to indict him!")

Other Tom

"BECAUSE they were cut out of the loop we have achieved a miracle--6 years without another attack."

That's "fearmongering?" Eh? (Is this man daft?)

topsecretk9
Cheney Addington and Libby were all right there doing their jobs on 9/11/2001. If I want to find National Security heroes they wouldn't be the ones asleep at the switches for the biggest act of international terrorism ever to take place against our country. You'd think no one expected Bin Ladin to strike within the US. Ooops the CIA did write that PDB didn't they?

It's not their fault Looking

- they read Larry C. Johnson's grand NYT's proclamation and informative op-ed that there was no - absolutely ZERO- terror threat PRE 9-11

I agree they were stupid to listen to such a monumental retarded idiot as Larry C. Johnson - intelligence NON- expert

Don't you?

Bill in AZ

OT - you missed Fitzgerald in your list of names. He's the one hiding behind Gorelicks wall during the prosecution of all of those cases. At least that's what he told the Senate in his long sob story about how the "wall" prevented him from doing his job, even though the wall didn't exist in the beginning. It didn't take long for him to crouch down behind it after 9/11.

topsecretk9

OT

"BECAUSE they were cut out of the loop we have achieved a miracle--6 years without another attack."

That's "fearmongering?" Eh? (Is this man daft?)

Yeah, I was wondering what brand of diapers he was wearing - depends or pampers?

Bill AZ

you missed Fitzgerald in your list of names. He's the one hiding behind Gorelicks wall during the prosecution of all of those cases.

Indeed.

Bruce Hayden

I have found the dynamics of the Bush Administration interesting. Not the Cheney stuff, because I buy into the theory that Cheney is Bush's hatchet man, but rather in the other players.

Ashcroft - probably too honest for his own good, which is probably why we ended up in the who Fitz investigation in the first place. My understanding is that he was there as the token religious conservative. Never a Bush man.

Replaced by Gonzales, an obvious Bush pick. Presumably picked to rectify the DoJ Ashcroft problems.

Powell, and through him, Armitage. Again, not really a Bush man, but put as Sec. of State to reassure the voters about Bush's foreign policy experience. Personally closer to Bush than philosophically. Sec. of State is always subject to being coopted by the department, and Powell was philosophically fairly in tune with them before then. Rice wasn't, and we all hoped that she could turn the department around. It looks like she failed.

Comey and Fitz. How the heck did a couple of Sen. Schumer's buddies get into those positions in Justice? Given the senior Senator from NY's desire and ability to harm this Administration, both should have been passed on, on general principles, simply because they all apparently were all buddies. My guess is that it was an Ashcroft screwup, based on the AG not playing politics when he really should have.

Rumsfeld. Definitely, a Cheney pick. They have been close since at least the Ford Administration. The good is that he was able to reengineer the military to an amazing degree. The bad is that he was too strong willed. In particular, it is questionable whether Gen. Petreaus would be running the war in Iraq right now under Rumsfeld.

Most of the rest of the top level cabinet posts have been held by Bush's people, and tend to be fairly in tune with the President and VP.

It is the next level down that is more interesting. Yoo was mentioned above, as was Comey, and Armitage. What seems to happen is that sometimes someone is given a top cabinet post for political reasons (like, appeasing the religious conservatives in the case of Ashcroft), and then the day to day running of the department is given to Administration loyalists (Yoo). Sometimes though, the Secretary has enough power to put his own people there (Armitage), and sometimes they get beaten by the system (Comey).

Of course, most of the departments continue to run like they always have, with the civil servants most often having much more control than the political appointees who are tokenly their boses.

JM Hanes

Bill:

"At least that's what he told the Senate in his long sob story about how the "wall" prevented him from doing his job, even though the wall didn't exist in the beginning."

There's always some obstruction, isn't there? Poor guy can't catch a break.

Bill in AZ

JMH "always some obstruction"

Gorelick Wall, Libby mis-remembering months old conversation... all same in fitzworld.

SunnyDay

I wonder if he ever wakes up at 4AM and hates himself, knowing that he knew and did not choose to take action. Or do those guys get so completely dissociated that they are not capable of feeling anthing.

JM Hanes

Bruce:

I remember Griffen Bell talking about coming in as Atty. General. He said it was a couple of months before he realized that staff were sending him all over creation, saying he was needed here or there, when they were really just trying to keep him out of the office.

Maybeex

Bruce Hayden- interesting post.
Comey was by all accounts a good conservative, and Schumer's support of him at the time was seen as a bipartisan gesture. I don't know if Comey went into it wanting to damage the administration, or if he was just thrilled to have a Schumer as a benefactor that would get him power.

It seems someone caught on to Schumer sometime before this last go-round with DoJ. This time, he was *caught* trying to manufacture a scandal to get his guys in at AG. It didn't work out that well for McNulty, although they both tried.

topsecretk9

Bruce

Do you remember Bush being asked in a debate for 04 - his mitakes? His response ? he regreted hiring someone.

My guess is that someone was Powell - Powell liked to fling around "serving at the pleasure of the President" to cover for his own brand of covert coup crap

He did zero in his tenure including serve the president.

He's too me a half a man - which is a real disappointment.

JM Hanes

BTW guys, Beldar has posted a long comment on his D. C. Circuit Court thread.

topsecretk9
I wonder if he ever wakes up at 4AM and hates himself, knowing that he knew and did not choose to take action. Or do those guys get so completely dissociated that they are not capable of feeling anthing.

Let's see...he went from staved kitty - pizza in the oven for months super gross --to sporting a well endowed striking blonde on his arm AFTER the Libby trial -- I'd say he isn't ignoring the tale this is has brought him - hmmmm!

He was a geeky boy scout - maybe he got agro for the chicks?


Bill in AZ

clarice: "airheads... insulated from real life"

I got my canned immigration response back from Jon Kyl - he didn't bother to read my letter (close f'n border, then worry about the rest) it's the usual nonsense where bipartisanship seems to be more important than what's right for *this* country. But what really poked me in they eye was the employer enforcement stuff - instant verification, heh heh. In another lifetime I was the employer: 4:00AM, in the freezing rain, fog, 50 workers you've never seen before lined up to pick 50-100 tons of grapes by noon so the winery would have time to process before the next days 50-100 tons would roll in. By experience you knew that every one of these guys would make up to $20 or more per hour at piece rate, and every one of them had multiple valid looking IDs. In fact, most of them had a truly valid state ID of some kind. Why is it up to me at 4:00AM, in the rain, to verify "instant" status when the state couldn't be bothered during normal working hours? real world indeed... this is real world agriculture pretty much anywhere in the country.

topsecretk9

agro = INTO

clarice

Try telling someone from the Phillipnes with a legit application for a visa and work permission here that it will take 11 years before his quota number comes up --I used to have to do that all the time. Or people(citizens) --often old--wanting to bring their equally old siblings here that the process would take decades and was uncertain.Or dealing with the incompetents in the Immigration service or the foreign service who screwed up or lost the papers--wih no easy way to even reach them (by design they change the contact numbers regularly so if you don't belong to the Immigration Lawyers Assoc and read their weekly stuff regularly you have no f***ing way to even contact the head of the local office.

clarice

It's like energy, isn't it? Instead of taking political heat by opening up ANWR and the offshore to drilling and working to get more refineries and nuclear plants built, Congress mandates higher CAFE standards--let busines come up with something.
On immigration, they haven't the guts to close the border and enforce the law nor the interest to clean up INS, so they come up with the solution of making the employer do their work.

clarice

jmh, re Beldar's argument on interlocutory appeals in criminal cases:

Interestingly, early in these proceedings Fitz filed an interlocutory appeal but that was to challenge Walton's CIPA ruling and CIPA makes specific provision for an interlocutory appeal by the govt in such cases.

Interlocutory Appeal
APPEAL FROM INTERLOCUTORY ORDER


Section 7(a) of the Act provides for an interlocutory appeal by the government from any decision or order of the trial judge authorizing the disclosure of classified information, imposing sanctions for nondisclosure of classified information, or refusing a protective order sought by the United States to prevent the disclosure of classified information. Section 7 appeals must be approved by the Solicitor General. The term "disclosure" within the meaning of section 7 includes both information which the court orders the government to divulge to the defendant or to others as well as information already possessed by the defendant which he or she intends to disclose to unapproved people. Section 7(b) provides that the court of appeals shall give expedited treatment to any interlocutory appeal filed under subsection (a). As a matter of fairness, the policy of the Department shall be that the defense be given notice of the government's appeal under section 7.

topsecretk9

Insty says:

HAS BUSH squandered the last of his political capital on immigration? I'd say the answer is pretty much yes, which is unfortunate with more war-funding battles coming up soon.

I'd say NO if the DOJ went aggressively after "leakers" of the same importance and the same over the top and spending fashion as the NON- leak Plame non-investigation.

It seems to be that Bush-Cheney are too invested in work and doing the right thing and to allergic to politicking.

I'm all for ignoring polls and the retarded NTY and WAPO but fight the crap back, please!!!!!!

Sometimes, I wonder if Joe Wilson was whored out by the Kerry campaign simply to blunt - delegitimize and re-brand any criticisms Kerry was likely to receive.

It's almost as if someone on the "inside" was listening in on the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and knew they were coming - but no one, NO one in the CIA would use their clearance and get wiretaps and exploit it - sure NO one would?

Think backwards on these leaks - me thinks they we leaked to protect mizz flame - leaker extraordinaire.

Davod

Clarice:

Your comments regarding legal immigration are why I adamantly oppose this new push. There are tens of thousands of people patiently, or otherwise, waiting their turn to come to the USA.

cathyf
Interestingly, early in these proceedings Fitz filed an interlocutory appeal but that was to challenge Walton's CIPA ruling and CIPA makes specific provision for an interlocutory appeal by the govt in such cases... Section 7 appeals must be approved by the Solicitor General.
So, was it approved by the Solicitor General?
Sue

And I suppose you certainly wouldn't want to include anyone who slept through Twin Towers I, Khobar Towers, the African embassies and USS Cole, would you?

Funny you should mention that. I was reading about Clinton's suddenly found surplus yesterday and ran across a piece that stated Clinton presided over the longest period of peace-time economic expansion in American history. The peaceful president, our Bill. In addition to the above, we had Somolia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Waco and Ruby Ridge. But those were the days. Lots of peace running around.

As to the August PDB that Bush critics keep bringing up to point to Bush's failure to stop 9/11, if you could see just on PDB on Iraq, would you also use that to say Bush did the right thing? Of course not. The same evidence being used against Bush today for going into Iraq would have been used against him had he not gone and Saddam passed off WMDs to a terrorist organization. Which is why I suspect Wilson kept a radio silence until after he was sure nothing would be found. His report could have been used either way, another one of his slick skills. It's called covering your ass.

Sue

When is the ruling expected on the bond issue? Will there be oral arguments?

Maybeex

Which is why I suspect Wilson kept a radio silence until after he was sure nothing would be found.

Ahh. He also came out before the AQ Khan network was revealed, and the Libyan program came to light. That should have been humiliating for him, but it somehow wasn't.

Sue

Maybee,

My favorite talking point from the left is Wilson was trying to stop a war. Only problem with that, he waited until after the war started to try and stop it. And it is always said with a straight face. ::sigh::

fschmieg

I feel that the country is getting too free with the term impeachment. This should be a word used only for the MOST serious of crimes in office, not political, even controversial, decisions. It is corrosive to our representative democracy and breeds cynicism in government. Also, it is unnecessary. We term limit our president and vice president. That is sufficient barring extreme circumstances. The electorate has ample opportunity to make its decisions. Then it should stick by them until the next election. Heaven forbid that we become a pseudo-parliamentary government via impeachment threats. It will destroy us.

clarice

cathyf --that's an interesting point. I suspect the Solicitor did not approve it and, if I'm right, that would represent yet another statute violated. On one hand, if called on this--he'd argue no harm no foul because he withdrew that appeal. On the other hand, he did seem to get Walton to back off once he filed it.

hoosierhoops

A couple thoughts...
First up Impeachment..

Heaven forbid that we become a pseudo-parliamentary government via impeachment threats. It will destroy us.

Posted by: fschmieg | June 26, 2007 at 10:16 AM
Well i thought we were driving the car off the cliff when the house voted impeach Clinton for having sex..or rather lying about having sex...yea that's a high crime..

____________________________________

I got an email from Vicki Piece in Texas attending her nephew James funeral. KIA in Iraq.
She took pictures from her car as adults and kids lined the route for 2 1/2 miles holding american flags and thier hands over thier heart. Those Texans sure know how to make us proud to be such a caring and compasionate country. RIP James.

Sue

Well i thought we were driving the car off the cliff when the house voted impeach Clinton

Me too.

for having sex..or rather lying about having sex...yea that's a high crime..

You lost me there. I was against the impeachment but I wasn't delusional. I knew what the crime was and so do you.

And yes, I think it was an impeachable offense, but I wish it had never been brought.

hoosierhoops

You lost me there. I was against the impeachment but I wasn't delusional. I knew what the crime was and so do you.
Sue:
Hi there, Well I'm not sure how to respond..lot's of guys lie about sex, I find it offensive but not a high crime..
It was plain wierd..But if clinton had 6 kids like me he wouldn't want sex anymore.. :)
nice chatting with you Sue..
Regards,

boris

Imagine instead of BJ, Dan Quayle had been prez after GHW and was caught having an affair with an intern, sued for harassing Paula, known to have mashed Kathleen and had her cat disappeared, lied under oath about it, (not to mention Juanita). Impeached and removed by a Democrat congress?

Ya think?

Hypocrisy is one thing, double standards at this level are bad news. If they are willing to shoot at you, either be willing to shoot back or tuck tail between legs and slither under a rock. That describes too many Republicans I'm afraid.

cathyf
And yes, I think it was an impeachable offense, but I wish it had never been brought.
I think we are back at the Law of Unintended Consequences. A big part of what Clinton was accused of was paying off his mistress with a government job, and then attempting to use government favors to bribe private companies to find her a job.

Why is it that we think that having presidents traffic in patronage favors is such a bad idea? Well, a real big reason is that President Garfield got assassinated in 1881 by a disgruntled job seeker, and so birthed the civil service system. I myself am wondering if it wouldn't be better to lose the occasional politician to assassination by disgruntled office seeker than to have the uncontrolled, unsupervised bureaucracy. Especially since you can argue pretty persuasively that civil service procedures kill as well -- we call it "going postal" for a reason, after all.

chch16

Clarice is smoking some good stuff. The only reason there have been six years without an attack are the attackers haven't pulled the trigger to attack.

El Queada has reconstituted itself and is stronger and more populated than ever. Bush has done nothing to dent them. If El Quaeda had their choice, Bush would be President forever.

You'll get to see the attacks Clarice, but what shape you'll be in after is questionable.

The Bush Levitt and formerly Frist Health Plan:

Right now your medically stupid no science HHS is encouraging states to buy Tamiflu as their defense against pandemic flu.

Brilliant Republican Clinical Medicine. What's wrong with Tamiflu as a defense (suburban pharmacies have been selling out of it) besides that it doesn't do jack to protect anyone against Pandemic Flu mutations? DUH!!! It builds resistance and it has no efficacy. Georgie Bushie: Duh I don't like no science. What do that mean?

It means Bushie and Levitt besides costing $65 per week and having little impact on seasonalflu, that when a pandemic flu attack hits the U.S. (and China is refusing to share samples with the incompetently run CDC and WHO that it will spread faster and kill people faster.

Republicans For More Better Science Faster through Political Hacks Like Levitt Instead of the ID Lit:

Tamiflu">http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/353/25/2633">Tamiflu Builds Resistance to Pandemic Flu

Tamiflu">http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/353/25/2667">Tamiflu Resistance in Pandemic Flu : The Repubican Way Forward

Antiviral">http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02230505/Antiviral_Myth.html">Antiviral Myth that Republican HHS Delusionally Spreads

Avian">http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/URItheFlu/tb/2377">Avian Flu Deaths Linked to Tamiflu Resistance--the Stupid Republican Choice for Defense

Yoo, Cheney, Addington and the White House Counsel have launched an attack on the Bill of Rights and they've gutted it.

What Tom Maguire meant was easy was to show that the Sopranoesque DOJ has launched political prosecutions against Democrats 4 to 1 or are you reading more National Enquirer than Stanford Law Review these days?

From a conservative rag, Washington Monthly:

Sopranoesque">http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_03/010882.php">Sopranoesque Fredo DOJ Targets Dems 4 to 1 With Political Prosecutions

Political">http://www.epluribusmedia.org/columns/2007/20070212_political_profiling.html">Political Profiling of Democrats by Gonzales (No Federal Litigation Experience) DOJ

Study">http://media.www.dailyvidette.com/media/storage/paper420/news/2004/10/25/News/Study.Identifies.Political.Profiling-779002.shtml">Study IDs Political Profiling

Cheney occupies the 4th branch of government and it's flag is your middle finger.

chch16

LOL Republicans still focused on Clinton's sex life (repressed and living vicariously) seem to forget that Bush hasn't passed a significant piece of legislation.

He packed the S. Ct. with yes men Alito and Roberts, but those are the last two picks he or any Republicans will get confirmed for many years.

4 more hours and you can read Larry Robbins dogcrap brief as he helps put another nail in Scootie's coffin and scoots him onto the BOP.

clarice

cathyf, what an interesting post.
I think the civil service definitely needs to be reformed.
I think it won't be.
The best we can hope for is the downsizing of many of the old line agencies, creations of new, not covered by CS ones. It is impossible to get rid of thee people , impossible to control them, impossible to keep them from illegally meddling in domestic policies , especially when there is a Republican President and they don't like his directives or policies.

CAL

Sue,

Ruby Ridge occurred before Clinton I think. The cover up and promotion of those involved was under Clinton. He and Reno could have hung them all out to dry with no blowback at all if they didn't approve of killing white supremacists families.

hoosierhoops

I myself am wondering if it wouldn't be better to lose the occasional politician to assassination by disgruntled office seeker than....
Cathyf
I know when you reread your post you were wishing you didn't say that..
That's cool..I like reading what you and Clarice say about politics and legal issues of the day..
Well the Hoopster is off with a couple of the kids to go fishing...

cathyf

New thread!

chch16

Two Major Dirty Little Secrets of Immigration Law Never Focused On in the Republican Debate

1)Right now, the average immigrant who wants to go the route lawfully to citizenship must pay a ridiculous number of fees and because of bureaucratic inertia and chaos (and I'm certainly not laying this loggam at the feet of only a Republican Administration--the Dems were just as inept-- it's been this way for years) it takes 10-15 years and thousands of dollars.

If they leave one hardly important item off the antiquated forms (have any of you helped them out for people who are intelligent but still learning English the way many of us would have to learn a language as adults?) then the form is often rejected nastily and they are ordered to pay the fee again.

That is a ridiculous length of time for someone trying to navigate the system as it is mapped out now.

2) The majority of immigration judges now sitting are pathetic. They have little or no immigration litigation experience--and many have been interviewed by the Republican DOJ Twit Monica Goodling who graduated from a piece of crap law school and had no experience in federal litigation whatsoever and used "Good Bushie criteria" not experienced immigration litigation as her yardstick for hiring.

This situation is directly blamed on this DOJ--they appoint them--they are not confirmed or vetted.

A recent study showed that applications for asylum vary wildly depending on the district court and the immigration judge with the same facts and law compared in the cases.

Immigration">http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=152603">Immigration Asylum Figures Vary Wildy in Monica Goodling's Courts

Sue

Ruby Ridge occurred before Clinton I think.

I have forgotten that, I suppose. I only remember hearing about it during the Clinton years. Okay. So scratch Ruby Ridge from list.

PeterUK.

"The only reason there have been six years without an attack are the attackers haven't pulled the trigger to attack."

What a remarkably perspicacious observation,truly a Eureka moment in JOM commenting.I thought that when Bedlam was closed down,I would have search far and wide for such words of wisdom.
Thank you Mr Maguire for your munificence in providing such a forum.

attached photos

The insurgency in Iraq had alot to do with the administrator being fired by Bush. He was replaced with Rice. It's the first time since nixon or whatever. Rice is George's close personal pal(like in ya' we do some drining and stuff at the mansion) and not the US government administiring to a conquered country. It looks like George put his infedel girlfriend in charge of a country the US government just conquered. I think they got upset and that was the point.

Powell and covert coups? The Stans? Everyone had fun blogging them and got to call for world leaders assassinations. I thought it was Rice.

Joe was hired by Kerry to avoid prosectuion. Kerry did him a favor and he hired a bunch of other PCs for his foreign policy, etc. this was a mistake. Joe kinda ruined their chances with the Kerry Presidency and alot of people found his thing for PC strange. Kerry, like fonda, like Plame, like alot of other people maybe we're not sure about tend to go toward PC. Kerry has a Maosist problem)check the news as he ran. fonda has a anit war problem. Plame has a treason problem. They all tend to run to PC and no one really wants them. He did have some jobs though.............


Thinking and Republicans. Clinton had all these made. The smart ones sold their thinking along with other things to survive. So, it's really impossible as a group because thinking is no longer done. Republicans are all better, they understand it's wrong to be a Republican and have become better humans. The way it was done was'nt nice so Satan's device was used to make them perfect as they were in the creation of God, but that was Satan and the Luciferian dems went ahead and did 'I wants' for Satan. It was predictable and the US lost. Hate? They're all better and this isn't allowed.

Gaia is the worship of a God that is the earth. Of course, this is not the God we knew before having him stolen. The earth, globabl warming, hurricanes, natural disatsters are all the area of Lucifer. Bill and Als trading in the area is just a Luciferian way of dealing with lucifer. Everyone pays. The anwers are not in trading the weather or trading lives and accidents, etc. The trade is what is. If one is aware of where we are and what weve become, a reflection of Lucifer and non humanes, the answer is to end the existence. This has always been the trade. The trade works, except for luciferians who would like humans to exist as what they are because they are psychopaths like lucifer and we see and rely on what we see with our eyes closed to exist. Excuses for not accepting the correct answer are just excuses for existing with lucifer as God.

Disasters? Earthquakes and hurricanes and global warming have gotten very boring. Just about anybody can do this now and it's irritating. For example, New Orleans and some earthquakes weren't prayed for by anyone but the luciferians. So, they got what they asked for and the Tsunami was just a trade for those 'evil luciferian worshippers,' but I doubt it was Christians trading for a lesson from God, but luciferians asserting lucifer is, so don't blame me for those 'cause I would have done it different. The trade is always for everything in existence. This works.

'the DoS and DoJ are full of people who are anti-administration and living in a pre 9/11 world' This can't be a truer statement. The US government employees failed us during 9/11 and got more jobs, promotions, and had Americans put up with their complaints. Pre-9/11 - these people would have been fired and Republcian...............


cathyf

Just a friendly reminder... We can all scroll on by posters by observing their nicks on the bottom of their posts. On the other hand, if you respond to them, it is much more difficult to know when you need to be SOBed, too. So just say no...

Rick Ballard

CathyF,

We could approach the matter as an opportunity to expound on simple logic with educated guesses as to the IQ of a person indulging in elementary fallacy believing that he has made a logical "point".

My guess is that an incoherent syllogism is indicative of an individual who will never break into triple figures on an IQ test.

PeterUK.

Well Mr Ballard ,this one seems to hae it right,
"The earth, globabl warming, hurricanes, natural disatsters are all the area of Lucifer. Bill and Als trading in the area is just a Luciferian way of dealing with lucifer".

Charlie (Colorado)

LOL Republicans still focused on Clinton's sex life (repressed and living vicariously) seem to forget that Bush hasn't passed a significant piece of legislation.

That is so stupid I'm momentarily gobsmacked.

But just momentarily:
- "No Child Left Behind"
- Multiple tax cuts
- Medicare drug benefit
- Iraq War authorization
- "Faith Based Initiatives"

Goddamn idiots.

Charlie (Colorado)

Ruby Ridge occurred before Clinton I think.

No it didn't. August 1992.

PatrickR

George HW Bush was President in 1992.

Looking_For_a_Way_out

"No it didn't. August 1992."

Posted by: Charlie (Colorado

Well then it was clearly Clinton's fault. He had those damn mentalist powers that allowed him to force others to his will before he was even elected.... No wonder the "religous" feared him so much. And no wonder he got so much action. This explains it all. Mind control. Who'd a thunk it?

PeterUK.

"Mind control. Who'd a thunk it?"

Yes ,when all he really needed was penis control.

chch16

@ Charlie--you showcased my point perfectly. None of that legislation has done anything the titles suggested it would do.

No Child--a total systemic disaster. In most large cities 25-35% don't graduate high school; it's greater for African Americans, and a larger percentage of them can't write and their reading comprehension is abysmal.

The tax cuts are aimed at the wealthiest 1%, and offer little help to most Americans. How absurd to cite them.

The medicare "drug benefit" ahs so many gaps and loopholes and holes in the safety net that many elderly people with 3 major diseases (which is quite common) that it is a huge failure. Also greedy hogs at the troth like Frist who was heavily dependent on lobbyist funding and Billy Tauzin who makes millions from the pharmaceutical lobby PHARMA insured that there would be no competitive bidding of drugs.

Obviously you haven't had to care for patients who can't afford their medicine under this fiasco.

Tauzin insured that bill would stay in the toilet and it has.

Iraq War authorization has been a license to kill thousands of Americans and several hundred thousand Iraquis and there are a cascade of books written about it with names like "Fiasco" for a damn good reason. How funny you sited it. It's amazing to see so many people who will paint anything connected with the Bush administration as successful when it is failure enough that Republican candidates who have to run are starting to peel away from support of the fiasco and chaos in Iraq.

There is an exponential list of ex-active duty Generals and Colonels who were in Iraq that want it stopped.

"Faith Based Initiatives" violate the constitution's mandate to separate church and state. They never work.

Faith">http://www.slate.com/id/2086617">Faith Based Fudging


Gonzales">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/us/26detain.html">Gonzales INS Murders People Incarcerated Witholding Medical Care

chch16

It amuses me to see that no one seems to be left on this comment roll who can site examples to back up anything they say so they consistently resort to either name calling or mallopropesque phrases like
Rick Ballard's "incoherent syllogism" to proove mommy and daddy bought him a thesauras and he found the word "syllogism"


Insouchiant Larry Robbins has filed the additional nail in Scootey's coffin at Prettyman.

I doubt Tom Maguire will be putting lipstick on this pig.

To break into an IQ range that is anything more than 1/3 of the temperature, you have to be able to rebut with facts and ideas. Name slinging and derogatory discriptions don't get you anywhere above 1/3 the thermometer.

chch16

spell correction cite but the sites as in "the cites in Larry Robbins' briefs are off point and reprehensibly bad.

PeterUK.

"mallopropesque phrases"

"Pretentious Moi?"

chch16

Peter you're doing a superlative job of rebutting on the issues.

Of course you're pretentious because you think 2 bit retorts substitute for something substantive.

How's Iraq going?

How's the Libby appeal going?

Ole Georgie Fuckemall hasn't done much to ease the strain on Scootey and Harriet has he? He couldn't go much lower in the poles--all the White Republican flip flops are shooting themselves in the foot as Rudy 911 (he helped cause it and facilitate it) takes a dive.

Why aren't the EMTs, the NYPD, and the NYFD talking to each other right this second? Could it be that Republican companies refuse to give up the frequencies and pay lobbyists to insure they don't in a Republican dominated FCC milieu?

But you're in the land of Tony, Bush's puppy dog aren't you?

Charlie (Colorado)

@ Charlie--you showcased my point perfectly. None of that legislation has done anything the titles suggested it would do.

Oh. So by "hasn't passed any egislation" you meant "has passed legislation I didn't like." Sorry, that wasn't clear.

Charlie (Colorado)

George HW Bush was President in 1992.

Duh. Sorry.

chch16

@Charlie. This presidency and it's legislative agenda has been a disaster, except for the fact they've made it easier for the dems to take both chambers and the White House in 2008.

Hasn't passed any legislation that was at the top of the priority list, can't pass any now that he wants --the immigration bill is a disaster anyway the secret 10 try to insert the lobbyist's components--social security in the toilet and I mean


hasn't passed any legislation that worked.

You characterize Iraq as successful? No Child? Are you smoking some of the delusion inducing chemicals Clarice is?

PeterUK.

I don't have to rebut your assertions and massage your ego,where did you get that idea?
I amuse myself by taking the piss out of your self important, inconsequential and peurile twaddle.
You have the inalienable right to say what you wish,we have the right to ignore you.
If you want attention,go downstairs and pester your parents.

SunnyDay

To quote the great Clarice: PDNFTT

chch16

PDNFTT is shorthand for "we're too stupid to respond on the issues, so like Coulter we'll just call names."

Good job Sun-ney. And that spelling of poles was intentional.

Quoting this Clarice thing is quoting pure delusional rambling.

Another Bushie on the Bushie Prison Bus for lying to investigators (that's novel) in the Abramoff scandle--The Interior's Former#2 Steven Griles was sentenced to a whipass 10 months. The Judge sentenced him to twice what the Soprano DOJ asked because as usual--"he was entitled to break the law"--no remorse of course.

Griles wanted 3 months house arrest, but "goin' to da house" is gonna mean going to his concrete slab for 8 actual months.

But the good news is how many Bushies are getting educated into the cultural milieu of all the TVs in the prison TV room tuned to BET Hip Hop Videos.

More Good news on the Doolittle front--his ass is going down. He's banging on the Prison Bush to ride with his homeboys. His former chief of staff has turned over campaign finance records. Julie Dolittle his wife was paid $67,000 over 17 months by Abramoff.

Dolittle is pondering whether to accept the plea bargain he has been offered or to go to jail for 10X longer after an expensive trial.

They could organize an Old Republican Whitey Liars Club and make one helluva grounds crue at $5 per month (more than they're worth) if they were BOP'd into one facility.

You'd think Fredo could work something out to get them all into the same slam.

Will all of them become super Christy Christy like the Watergate crooks did?

Will they go into no email withdrawal without any pcs or G4s to play with?

Congrats to the Bushie government for depriving Americans of the right to travel outside the U.S. by flying the passport timetable into the shitter.

Whoops--Lugar and some of the Repub Senate off the Iraq reservation. They say it's a fiasco. It's difficult to say which will yield more Repubs--prosecutions that lead to jail time or the number of Repubs that peel off of Bush's Kami Kazi Dover coffin manufacturing plant over Iraq.

Carol_Herman

I'm only here, now, (around 3PM, pacific time), looking for Team Libby's filing. To respond to Fitz' filing.

The other stuff? I'm not into playing a tennis match on a ping-pong table. Boring. And, other than knowing other people are entitled to their opinions, it's a big "so what?"

Stobo Blobo

chch16-

blah blah blah blah blah blah...

Sheesh, I am not quite sure I have seen someone who is more in love with the sight of his/her own typing than you!

Do you believe that abusive, self-righteous, self-serving monologues (which you are clearly prone to) are conducive to reasoned debate?

I offer your relentlessly negative, monotonous ramblings as prima facie evidence supporting the thought that liberal talk radio has been a dismal failure because liberals are such BAD conversationalists. Can you refute that contention?

chch16

Peter--lol you're making my point perfectly.

WSJ ignores Libby but his ass is going to prison and that infuriates you.

Iraq is the shitstorm it always has been, and now the Republicans are jumping off the train.

The reason the Reps will be out of the House, Senate and White House in 2008 is because they have ignored all the shitstorms they've created.

And about 10 Bushies or maybe it's 15 if I counted them up are on their way to prison, despite the 4 to 1 political prosecution of Dems I've pointed up statistically.

You aren't ignoring any of this shitstorm your party created, you just don't know wtf to do about it.

boris

liberal talk radio has been a dismal failure because liberals are such BAD conversationalists

That and because they would rather confront the interesting ideas of conservatives than blather on and on with each other's tired boring old BS. Conservatives are like saturday at the movies. Liberals are like 4 hours of Sunday school.

chch16

Peter it turns out like most Righty blogs you just want someone to jerk off your biases.

You don't want to debate anything.

You want posts like "Damn that Fred Thompson really told Moore where to get off" ignoring the fact that health care is tragically missing preventing many disasters in this country because Republicans like Tauzig have sold out to big Pharma and big insurance.

You want posts like "Damn that Cheney has balls getting his drinking buddy Addington to make a fool of himself and assert he's another branch of government so he can make up what law he follows."

You want posts like "We're really kickin' their ass in Iraq" when the their is our soldiers whose ass we're kicking into Dover Coffins, lost jobs, and severe disability and crippling injuries with shit medical care for it once they're out of their firs inpatient hospitalization.

PeterUK.

chch16,
It's Mr UK to you,dipshit.

boris

They would just rather discuss conservative's interesting "bad" ideas than their own boring "goody goody" canards.

The problem is that once their listeners find out how interesting conservative ideas are and how boring the "goody goody" drek is they switch over to conservative radio and blogs. Oh they start out thinking they're beating down the "infidel" but really they just like us better.

RichatUF

maybeex

He also came out before the AQ Khan network was revealed, and the Libyan program came to light. That should have been humiliating for him, but it somehow wasn't.

Or look at the near media blackout on Libya and AQ Khan...

Sue-

The same evidence being used against Bush today for going into Iraq would have been used against him had he not gone and Saddam passed off WMDs to a terrorist organization

This was the Cohen defense for the al-Shifa bombing to the 9/11 Commission. The argument was seconded by Burger and Clarke-the al-Shifa bombing was the correct action, because of the potential of Iraq chemical weapons ending up in the hands of al-Qeada.

RichatUF

chch16

All of you know their are debates within the Administration and within the Republican and Democratic caucusus, so I don't understand why you wouldn't be open to the debates here.

Don't you get bored with the attaboys from each other? Surely there are a spectrum of positions on Immigration for example.

If you're smart people, why so little tolerance for other ideas--you don't gain one more S. Ct. seat or win an election by saying lol "That's Mr. Dipshit to you" and you know better than to think you're having any impact on my positions.

I haven't gone out of my way to sling epithets to people who post. I've characterized some in the government but with reason for doing it and I've tried to butress my positions with facts and proof.

I guess you are content to think you're protected from pandemic flu with Tamiflu and don't like it when you get real infectious disease information from the best medical literature. That's a strange make believe position to take and really is a childish retreat.

Mike Moore made some non-partison points, and I'd be concerned if I were you all that your white Republican male candidates have no definable health positions.

Rudy 911 is going to hammer that he was in New York when it got hammered, but that's not going to help him overcome positions your base doesn't like and the expose that he made NYC more vulnerable to 911.

Thompson is enjoying the attention, but his heart long ago abandoned the fire in the belly he needs to run, and he's obviously to lazy to sculpt positions and that former Phillip Morris attorney possey poised to run his campaign is lame on positions.

I guess this blog will evolve into Paris outta jail and the baby daddy a little like a Britney fan blog.

chch16

Even if there had been WMD, if there had been solid reasons for going into Iraq, you all completely abandon the issue that the planning has been pure chaos, the soldiers are dying via IEDs 80% for which protection exists and has not been delivered. The Israelis have a system for jamming the signals that is near 100% but greed of lobbyists is preventing it from being bought.

The implementation of the war is a pure fiasco. Why doesn't anyone have the collective balls to examine that?

I take it none of your families has skin in the game like so many White, Patrician Republican demographies you can see on a map of contributions to their candidates.

I guess you believe what Delay and Abramoff had going should never have been imploded.

The Susan Ralstons of the world to you are dedicated public servants right?

All these Republican jail birds have been framed right?
There's a busload of them in the BOP already.

It's not a Georgetown watering hole where they are--far from it.

You all revel in government secrecy. You like having your phones tapped and because most of you can't make a script to stop keystroke logging you like the fact that Bush and Cheney are forcing your ISPs into following your keystrokes right?

How many of you have tried to get passports to take your family somewhere outside the U.S. Whatdaya do call your fave Senator on their cell and say gimme the passport because the newspapers accross the country today are replete with horror stories and you all think this is a "better way forward" to use the phrase that is vomit inducing since there is no way forward and there sure as hell is no plan B for Iraq.

chch16

Someone said they wanted to feast their eyes on the Libby Brief filed today. So here ya are--knock yourself out. It is halarious--I've never seen such off the wall reasoning for someone who purports to be a competent appellate lawyer.

Larry">http://www.robbinsrussell.com/pdf/392.pdf">Larry Robbins' Reply Brief Filed Prettyman 6 26 07 for SCOOTIE

and of course who is a bigger Prettyman than ole Scootie. I hear that's what his BOP Buddies plan to knickname Scootie--Prettyman.

Stobo Blobo

chch16, have you ever seriously considered that the reason you people are as unpopular as you are at conservative websites isn't because the denizens there can't handle your truth, but because you are mannerless, unpleasant, masturbatory BORES who don't know how to LISTEN to those who might otherwise engage you, if you would only show true interest in what they say? Do you know what "respectful personal intercommunication" means?

Since I know you need the help, I'll point out that those were rhetorical questions.

chch16

Stobo Schlomo Blowwwwwbo--

I've presented every opportunity to "listen" and once again there you go--slinging shit and names.

I have posted facts and butressed them. I'd welcome any kind of constructive change but the black and white here shows it just hasn't come.

As to populaity, I'm not here to get popular. I'm here to debate things like a war that is continuing to kill with no gain, and with no Iraqui government in place yet. I don't think my fellow Americans should die for an Iraqi government that disrespects their people to the point they want to vacation, that they are in the middle of a civil war, and apparently everyone I've seen here wants to act as if the Americans aren't being blown up to the tune of a record number the last two months and it's not changing.

The denizens have responded consistently to facts with name calling and you know it doesn't bother me--stupid stuff like it's "Mr. Dickhead" to you--from someone who is acting like a child.

I'm happy to listen. I've put it out there.

1)WSJ ignored Libby trial--pathetically hypocritical since they are insisting they want editorial control over Rupert who has never shown history of giving anyone else control and who has always bought politicians to shape rules in every country the way he wants. Only China shut him down in history, and only for four years.

I guess Wendy young enough to be his grandaughter doesn't shut him down. She wants her billions. Being a "Yale yuppie wanna be" taught her that much.

I put out some health facts. I don't see you rebutting.

I put out some LIbby facts and I gave you the newest Robbins morsel to take apart and analyze. Robbins pathetically blew his chance to argue c.i.p.a. §6 and his Morrison argument is just surreal.

Are they paying Larry Robbins are is he pro bono for the Millionaire Free Our White Multimillionaire because we don't have to obey the law club? LOL

Whatcha got Stobo Blobo--bring it. I'm happy to listen and argue facts but you join the people who want to fling names--that accomplishes nothing. Why don't you take an issue I raised and use the superior communications skills you ascribe to yourself knowning nothing about me and express yourself. Calling names and lecturing does nothing.


Do you have any positions you can express on the issues?

What did you think of the latest Libby brief that you all have been asking for I fed you?

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame