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June 03, 2007

Comments

lurker9876

Who are Larson and Edmond?

Why didn't Well's refer to any violations of IIPA and underlying crime?

clarice

{GOOD GRIEF!!}


Those by themselves would justify bail pending appeal. Other opinions your honor recognizes novelty. To the extent your honor would briefing, we could have briefing by eod Thursday. On those two issues alone, we meet the standard. We don’t have to establish with caselaw there is a probability, we only have to prove there are substantial questions, wrt to those alone, the court recognizes that the court was going into uncharted territory.

Walton Govt

Fitz: Your honor, we’d disagree, either wrt appointments clause or memory expert. It is not unique to deny expert memory, done after full and fair hearing.

Walton On issue of memory expert, I have no question. Testimony presented by witness was totally lacking both factual and from a legal perspective, if on that record, we’re not being gatekeepers as Doubert would require, if that were admissible, we could never keep out anything. I don’t see any basis for any potential reversal.

Walton: as far as appointment clause, the question is the extent to which there is appropriate supervision over Mr. Fitz and his operation. He was obviously confirmed by senate, occupies a position in Chicago as USA, he was tasked to conduct this investigation, even though AG, and DAG, have recused themselves, there was no indication they had recused themselves wrt supervisory issues if he did not conduct himself according to rules and regulations of DOJ.

clarice

lurker--that's the appointment of Fitz issue--whether it was unconstitutional...

clarice

Walton: as far as appointment clause, the question is the extent to which there is appropriate supervision over Mr. Fitz and his operation. He was obviously confirmed by senate, occupies a position in Chicago as USA, he was tasked to conduct this investigation, even though AG, and DAG, have recused themselves, there was no indication they had recused themselves wrt supervisory issues if he did not conduct himself according to rules and regulations of DOJ.

Otherwise it seems to me that people who occupy high levels of DOJ, it would mean people who have direct responsibility for DOJ couldn’t be brought in.

[note, this is relevant to the USA purge]

Jeffress: your honor said tension between these cases. Your honor spent 29 pages resolving that. You didn’t do it bc it was an easy question. You recognize there is no case directly on point. I have no doubt that your decisions are correct. Release pending appeal does not require judges to correct their own errors. What is required is that there be a close issue, one that could be decided the other way.

Rick Ballard

"I want Walton impeached for this disgrace"

If we impeached every mediocrity sitting on the bench who would collect the traffic fines? My God, the pothole situation in DC is bad enough as it is.

I'm not counting on a Presidential pardon (until Fred is elected) so let's hope for a lengthy appeal process.

Sue

Walton is going to put him in jail. And by doing so, he will force Bush's hand. If he releases him, pending appeal, it kicks the time frame on down the road. If he doesn't, Bush has to decide right now if he is willing for Libby to serve time in jail. Nice touch, judge...no politics involved in this decision...

topsecretk9

CathyF

--Is this a direct quote from Wilson's book? If it is, then it is the freaking smoking gun on the government "taking affirmative actions to conceal the agent's identity." Look, they told a freakin' foreign intelligence service that Plame was a WMD intelligence employee. There is no less "covert" an employee than that. It also makes the inclusion of this----

This is from David Corn's blog (but not sure if it's his blog post or a passage out of Hubris)

---------------

Libby should have requested to be considered an enemy combatant and sent to Gitmo so that he could be released post haste.

Maybeex

Bush will let him spend time in jail. He has to. This whole investigation has been about showing that the admin isn't above the law.
Libby will be pardoned as Bush leaves office, just like the White Water people were in Clinton's day.

Sue

If Bush doesn't pardon Libby immediately, if he isn't left out pending appeal, Bush won't lose me on the immigration, or the war, but he will damn sure lose me on this one. He is close to doing that now, for allowing this farce to continue as long as it has.

clarice

Wells: all we’re asking is a right to file a full brief.

Wells Fitz told me it was his position that he did not see Libby as flight risk. Would agree to reasonable surrender date. I told him in light of that.

Walton: I don’t have a problem with having you all submit something so I can rethink it. How much time will govt need,

Fitz: If we could have 10 days.

Wells: that’s too long, we have to get to Court of Appeal. I would ask govt to file brief by Monday, we’ll reply by Tuesday, so if your honor does not change, we can get right to Court of Appeals.

Fitz: My only point is we don’t have a head start on brief, I assume they’ve though through what they’re going to represent.

Walton: Thursday for filing of defense. Monday for filing of, actually, Tuesday for govt, and

Wells We'll respond in 24 hours.

Walton; 1:30 on Thursday for hearing.

Wells: WRT surrender date, Fitz has no objection to reasonable date.

Walton: I don't do that, if I don't file notice bail pending appeal, generally takes 45-60 days.

Fitz: Wanted your honor to make aware of one thing. 30 months on obstruction. Just wanted to point out, if your honor was trying to correspond, one would be lower and one would be higher. By our read on false statements would have a 6, would mean guidelines range for false statement is 0-6 months, on other hand, perjury counts, level 14, but your honor found intereference enhancement, perjury 24-30 months.

Cycloptichorn

Sue,
If Bush doesn't pardon Libby immediately, if he isn't left out pending appeal, Bush won't lose me on the immigration, or the war, but he will damn sure lose me on this one. He is close to doing that now, for allowing this farce to continue as long as it has.

Seriously?

With all the problems we face as a country, THIS is the issue which will force you away from Bush?

I have a hard time seeing how pardoning a convicted criminal is more important then the war or immigration. But hey, to each his/her own...

Maybeex

I just completely understand why he wouldn't do it- why Bush wouldn't pardon Libby immediately.

The thing that has me maddest today is the enhancement for interference because Russert fought his subpoena.

Jane

Bush doesn't have to let him spend time in jail altho I predict he will. After all, who is left out there to impress? Which of the 69% of people who hate Bush will think any less of Bush if he pardons Libby? What a joke.

Sue

Seriously?

No, I just typed that because my fingers have a mind of their own.

I have a hard time seeing

You won't, though. When the Fitz tactics are applied to someone other than a Bush official.

Maybeex

What just happened at the end, there? Walton was UNDER THE IMPRESSION????

Rick Ballard

"The thing that has me maddest today is the enhancement for interference because Russert fought his subpoena."

Given any thought to Armitage and Powell sitting on their fat asses making vacation plans? Or Comer and McNulty in a group huddle with Schumer and Fitz?

Cycloptichorn

You won't, though. When the Fitz tactics are applied to someone other than a Bush official.

mmm hmm. I have no problem whatsoever with 'Fitz tactics' being applied to anyone. He was a prosecutor who argued a difficult case well, and got the conviction he was seeking.

You really should be angry at Wells and Jeffress. Their defense was not the best.

lurker9876

I don't have a hard time understanding Sue.

You totally disregarded the last statement:

"He is close to doing that now, for allowing this farce to continue as long as it has."

This is an unfair trial by jury led by an ignorant judge. Bush still won't lose me because it looks like Wells, Jeffress, and Libby can't wait to file with the Ct. of Appeals. I'm glad.

lurker9876

The Fitz tactics is what led an innocent man to convictions.

I still think that Wells and Jeffress did a great job but Walton forced them a very limited defense.

Let's hope the Court of Appeals will believe Wells and Jeffress this time. I understand that most of the judges at that level are more conservative. Think their odds are better there with better judges.

Jane

Cyclop,

You wouldn't know a good lawyer if you fell over him. You are utterly clueless. What you are apparently advocating for is dishonest prosecutions. That certainly doesn't surprise me and speaks volumes about you.

Maybeex

Oh yeah, Rick, especially when Walton was talking about how Libby should have been careful about talking about Plame. So I might have been lying before...but still, the enhancement added directly to Libby's sentence.

I'll bet Fitzgerald is bummed he didn't charge Rove. Maybe the GJ wouldn't indict, but with that jury and this judge, Rove would be in jail.

Sue

mmm hmm. I have no problem whatsoever with 'Fitz tactics' being applied to anyone.

Glad to hear that.

lurker9876

Hope the 'Fitz tactics" are applied to Cyclop. Surely, that would change Cyclop's mind very quickly.

Jane

Glad to hear that.

Just as long as it doesn't apply to Sandy Berger.

centralcal

Jane or Clarice: Way back when (during the trial phase) I asked if there would be a different legal team (attorneys) for the appeal. I thought the answer was yes - am I misremembering? I am very unimpressed with Wells/Jeffress.

Cycloptichorn

Sour grapes abound today.

By definition, Libby is not an innocent man. He is a guilty man. I understand that this is difficult for people to accept, but this fact will not change any time soon.

There is no real evidence that either Walton or the Jury acted improperly in any way. Claims that the jury was 'unfair' or 'rigged b/c it's DC' are without merit; disagreement with a jury decision does not equal evidence that a decision was arrived to unfairly.

Starting from the proposition that someone is innocent does not make a strong argument! Especially after he's been convicted of said crimes in a court of law.

I predict that neither the 'memory expert' (who got destroyed by Fitz in pre-trial, really horribly, it was sad actually) nor the 'Fitz improperly appointed' angle will fly. Both are weak arguments.

topsecretk9

-mmm hmm. I have no problem whatsoever with 'Fitz tactics' being applied to anyone.--

And so Mrs. Flame has three versions -- in Fitz world that's perjury -- and one story was to her Inspector General wherein she admitted she suggested her husband -- explaining why she lied to her inspector general ought to be fun.

So, I might be warming more and more to Fitzy tactics afterall.

Sue

Top,

When Fitz used Waxman's hearing to apply sentencing guidelines I wouldn't be looking for Fitz tactics against Plame anytime soon. Kind of convenient, no? That Waxman had his hearing in time for Fitz to use information from it to declare Plame covert?

Jeff Dobbs

NEW LIBBY SENTENCING THREAD.

Sue

From a reader at NRO...on a possible Bush pardon. I must say, I seem to have the same reaction as this person did...

"You have to be kidding me. Bush feels the need to “pardon” only those coming illegally into this country or are already here illegally."

qquirl

Bioshield is interestng. States are now competing for the new facility.

Wolfowitz should have gone along with Clinton's Foundation and the loans.

The Foley that was passed on is Plame's boss(denied). Foley was a PC, like Joe. The asassination gives Foley reason to deny and Plame moves up(classified).

WMD speeches in Canada? She was there 'undercover' with Woolsey without the CIA D.O. authorization, but she was a known bad agent.

Jane

Centracal,

It's rare for the same lawyers to prosecute an appeal who try the case. Different set of skills.

topsecretk9

--WMD speeches in Canada? She was there 'undercover' with Woolsey without the CIA D.O. authorization, but she was a known bad agent.--

Without DO authorization? She says she doesn't do that sort of thing.

centralcal

Thank you, Jane.

qquirl

Woolsey was sent to 'take care of the problem.' Woolsey is known and so is Plame. Montreal is a nice place.

Evidence that Plame went back in time to Vanity Fair using the Space Alien device sent by Satan to the earth in a UFO and not reverse engineered to change it from Satan. yes, Plame moved there:

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=44285

lurker9876

By definition, Libby is not an innocent man. He is a guilty man. I understand that this is difficult for people to accept, but this fact will not change any time soon.

There is no real evidence that either Walton or the Jury acted improperly in any way. Claims that the jury was 'unfair' or 'rigged b/c it's DC' are without merit; disagreement with a jury decision does not equal evidence that a decision was arrived to unfairly.

Starting from the proposition that someone is innocent does not make a strong argument! Especially after he's been convicted of said crimes in a court of law.

I predict that neither the 'memory expert' (who got destroyed by Fitz in pre-trial, really horribly, it was sad actually) nor the 'Fitz improperly appointed' angle will fly. Both are weak arguments.

Cylco, I don't care whether Libby was ruled guilty by the jury. The demographics of this jury made it very biased. Libby is innocent regardless of what this biased jury decided. It is with merit all along. There's plenty of evidence that showed the jury made a bad decision.

Fitz proved that he needed a memory expert. He blew it.

Enough.

PeterUK.

Jane,For you.

Pelosis's son on Info-USA payroll

RichatUF

Sue says...

...If he doesn't, Bush has to decide right now if he is willing for Libby to serve time in jail...

If there is unplesant business to be attened to get it all over with quickly. Bush should pardon Libby and fire Fitzgerald, and for their troubles pardon Russert and Armitage. Maybe closing down the CIA wouldn't be such a bad idea either

RichatUF

Jane

Fox is now hedging its bets on Libby being free pending appeal; They are now reporting that will be decided next week.

RichatUF

I do it for tsk9, Rick B, and JM Hanes...

I really shouldn't have [its a rambling conspiracy fit for Laroach and the Executive Intelligence Review]

from the qguirl link...

...Indeed, this e-mailer may have been a member of Plame’s very own network. The message was a very intense “story” that appeared to contain a great deal of underlying coded information. Such code would indicate that the intel community was the e-mailer’s first intended target audience. One might surmise that the author was communicating that a great treason was being foisted on the USA, and that the major players were NOT disenfranchised “dark-skinned” peoples...

WOW! Be careful going to that link.

I read something on the net a while back that in the blogsphere, conspiracy theories function as jawas-junk hearders. And within the junk there are valuable droids to be found. These valuable droids can only be found by Jedis using the force. However the Jedi are beset by Stormtroopers and the Sith to tie up the droids with junk. The role of the Jedi blogger is to battle the Stormtroopers and Sith to liberate the droids from the junk.

It was kinda funny, and there is a Plame angle, and I don't really remember where I found the link or the Plame angle [and appearently didn't bookmark it].

RichatUF

cathyf
-mmm hmm. I have no problem whatsoever with 'Fitz tactics' being applied to anyone.--
How about Fitzgerald? He filed a false affidavit stating that "Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States" even though he knew darn well that the her intelligence relationship to the United States was disclosed by the CIA to at least one intelligence service of a foreign country.

Filing a false affidavit. Looks like perjury, obstruction of justice, and conspiracy to obstruct justice.

PeterUK.

"Starting from the proposition that someone is innocent does not make a strong argument! Especially after he's been convicted of said crimes in a court of law."

Yes so embarrassing when the accused has been found innocent on appeal,even more embarrassing to have to do so posthumously after they have been executed.
I'll say one thing Sicko,you will make a good little work unit,like those poor bastards who went to the firing squad praising Stalin.

Jeff Dobbs

cathyf:
Is this a direct quote from Wilson's book? If it is, then it is the freaking smoking gun


Doesn't appear to be in Wilson's book. Looking on Amazon, he discusses the aluminum tubes on page 330-331 (according to the image of the book, amazon lists it as 3460347). In mentioning the tubes, he does not mention Valerie.

That was a quick peek, using amazon's search function for aluminum. I also searched for Jordanian, but nothing seemed related to the tubes.....

Jeff Dobbs

to be clear....346-347 is what amazon lists the page numbers as. when looking at the image dispalayed on the screen, 330-331.

qquirl

Congress already tried to close the CIA.

Star wars is about choosing Lucifer. 'The Force' is using Lucifer. The droids or bots represent Satan. Satan created these because Lucifer and his worshippers always go after the human body. Dreams and diseases. The bots can't be affected and actually have the power to destroy all matter, fission. Hitler could have picked these, but passed.

As far as Fitz. Who did he know under the five year law? Did he know Plame? Does he know like Chayes, from Harvard?

Jane

Puk,

If we are going to be fair in the current climate, Pelosi should face the death penalty for that. I'm sure Cyclops would agree.

PeterUK.

Jane,
Yes,all those poor silver haired seniors robbed of their life savings,that really is an Enemy of the People.

PeterUK.

Jane,
Yes,all those poor silver haired seniors robbed of their life savings,that really is an Enemy of the People.

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