And A Sustainably Stable Morning To You As Well

Writing in the Times, Michael O'Hanlon and Kenneth Pollack present an upbeat report on American prospects in Iraq:

VIEWED from Iraq, where we just spent eight days meeting with American and Iraqi military and civilian personnel, the political debate in Washington is surreal. The Bush administration has over four years lost essentially all credibility. Yet now the administration’s critics, in part as a result, seem unaware of the significant changes taking place.

Here is the most important thing Americans need to understand: We are finally getting somewhere in Iraq, at least in military terms. As two analysts who have harshly criticized the Bush administration’s miserable handling of Iraq, we were surprised by the gains we saw and the potential to produce not necessarily “victory” but a sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with.

After the furnace-like heat, the first thing you notice when you land in Baghdad is the morale of our troops. In previous trips to Iraq we often found American troops angry and frustrated — many sensed they had the wrong strategy, were using the wrong tactics and were risking their lives in pursuit of an approach that could not work.

Today, morale is high. The soldiers and marines told us they feel that they now have a superb commander in Gen. David Petraeus; they are confident in his strategy, they see real results, and they feel now they have the numbers needed to make a real difference.

Wow.  Combine that with the NY Times poll results and one might infer that the Dems need to pin down Bush's defeat before it slips away from them.  WILLisms has more on this.

More reax at Memeorandum including this rebuttal from Joe Klein:

I agree with many, but not all, of the conclusions Ken Pollack and Michael O'Hanlon reach in this NY Times column, but you really can't write a piece about the wae in Iraq and devote only two sentences to the political situation, which is disastrous and, as Petraeus has said, will determine the success or failure of the overall effort.

MORE BAFFLERS:  NewsBusters was stunned to hear Chris Matthews and a panel of lib newsies discuss the problems with withdrawal and the benefits of standing and fighting in Iraq.

Maybe the CW has been to declare a US defeat for so long that folks are casting about for a new CW.

STILL MORE:  In "The Seven Deadly Sins of Failure in Iraq: A Retrospective Analysis of the Reconstruction" Ken Pollack wrote in Dec 2006 that the war was winnable at the outset but mismanaged in reconstruction.

And file this under "Must Be Easy To Be A Lefty Blogger" - both Greg Sargent and Glenn Greenwald tell their trusitng readers that O'Hanlon and Pollack supported this war.  Depends on what one means by "support", I guess - Pollack famously back-pedaled during the run-up, and is not shy about saying so:

...let me start with the necessary disclaimer that while I believed a war would be necessary to depose Saddam, I opposed both the timing and manner of the actual war as the Bush administration pursued it.

That said, if he had back-pedaled by Feb 21, 2003 it is hard to see it in "A Last Chance To Stop Iraq", which appeared in the Times.

As to Mr. O'Hanlon, he seems to have supported the disarmament of Saddam but wanted more troops for post-liberation reconstruction.  One might say his judgment on what it would take to win this war was untested; his judgment to support Bush and Rumsfeld was flawed.

Comments

[Neo]

Reid is toast.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Off topic, but we're Brian Lamb fans here right? Last Night's Q&A was the most effective take down of Michael Moore I've ever seen. By a former high school friend in Michigan.

You can watch for yourself online. The film maker (really a CPA in Michigan) put $100,000 of his own money into telling the stories of people Moore deceived. Such as Rhonda the Rabbit Lady who was duped into signing a waiver of any royalties from Roger and Me (she's illiterate and couldn't read the waiver Moore produced for her to sign before he'd let her into the limo for the premiere).

See Moore lie on camera about not knowing Osama bin Laden had quoted Fahrenheit 911.

See a soldier who lost both arms in Iraq tell how he came to be in Moore's film.

[hit and run]

Klein says:
but you really can't write a piece about the wae in Iraq and devote only two sentences to the political situation, which is disastrous and, as Petraeus has said, will determine the success or failure of the overall effort.

David Igantius says:

Try to imagine what was running through the mind of Hassan Kazemi Qomi, Iran's ambassador to Baghdad, as he sat across the negotiating table from his American counterpart, Ryan Crocker, last week. While the U.S. diplomat delivered his stern warning against Iranian meddling in Iraq, Qomi must have wondered: Why should I listen to this guy? Congress is going to start pulling U.S. troops out soon, no matter what he says.

That's the difficulty for Crocker and Gen. David Petraeus as they try to manage a stable transition in Iraq while Congress chants ever more loudly: "Troops out! Troops out!" It's hard for anyone to take American power seriously when prominent members of Congress are declaring the war already lost.
...
A good start would be for Washington partisans to take deep breaths and lower the volume, so that the process of talking and fighting that must accompany a gradual U.S. withdrawal can work. Some members of Congress argue that pressure for an American troop withdrawal will persuade the Iraqis to put aside their sectarian agendas, but the opposite is more likely to be true.
...
Extricating the United States safely from Iraq will be difficult under the best of circumstances. But it will be impossible if the necessary bargaining takes place against a backdrop of continual congressional demands for a faster withdrawal. In that situation, the Qomis and Sadrs will take the admonitions from Crocker and Petraeus as just so much hot air -- and a bad situation will get even worse. Why should they listen to us today if we will be gone tomorrow?
...
The United States is on its way out of Iraq eventually, but it matters powerfully how we disengage -- most of all to Democrats, who at this point seem likely to inherit the responsibility for America's security 18 months from now.

[Gmax]

most of all to Democrats, who at this point seem likely to inherit the responsibility for America's security 18 months from now.

Therein lies the crux now doesn't it? Hard to have those long binges cuz sooner or later you must wake up and deal with the hangover.

[hit and run]

Gmax:
Hard to have those long binges cuz sooner or later you must wake up and deal with the hangover.

I don't appreciate you likening me to a dem that way.

Below the belt!!!

[VIMH: Ow, don't yell, it really hurts in here when you do that on a Monday]
Sorry.

[hit and run]

[VIMH: Or a Saturday or Thursday or...]
OK, OK, I get the point, you think I don't feel it too?

[VIMH: Sometimes I wonder]
You can say that again

[VIMH: Sometimes I...]
Shut up already!

[VIMH: Ow, there you go again]
::sigh::

[Jane]

Now seriously, what are the democrats, particularly Hillary and Obama going to do? Hillary can squeeze around good news more easily than Obama can, but she still risks the base. Obama seems stuck with the meme that it is too little to late - geez think about that. It's too little to late so let's abandon Iraq. Hillary will as always talk out of both sides of her mouth.

I predict Pelosi will say that it's the democrats in charge, threatening withdrawal that has made a difference, and her fans will whole-heartedly agree.

Reid will blow a gasket as always. How dare the war go well! Harrumph!

[hit and run]

Jane:
Now seriously, what are the democrats, particularly Hillary and Obama going to do?

The internal polls haven't come back yet to tell them what they need to do.

I predict Pelosi will say that it's the democrats in charge, threatening withdrawal that has made a difference, and her fans will whole-heartedly agree.

Maybe. But it is easy enough to predict that the terrorists know exactly when Petraeus will come back to the US to testify on the progress of the surge, and we will see a sharp increase in attacks to coincide. That will give enough cover for dems to say no progress has been made, with a reliable MSM to carry the narrative.

[Topsecretk9]

Democrats gamble with your safety...aka Doing what they do best...

What has gotten lost in all of this increasingly sordid game of political gotcha is the viability of a critical program in the war on terror. The TSP was brought under the FISA court's jurisdiction this January, allegedly without impairing its effectiveness. But FISA orders are not permanent. They must be periodically reissued, and FISA judges rotate. As an editorial on the facing page of the Journal first reported Friday, well-placed sources say that today's FISA-compliant TSP is only about "one-third" as effective as the 2005 version--which, in turn, was less comprehensive than the original program. This is shocking during a summer of heightened threat warnings, and should be unacceptable to Congress and the American people.

http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010401

[MikeS]

Why is this man smiling?

We're gonna need some hearings!

Who mislead the Dems into thinking Iraq was un-winable?

Does all this public wrangling about the war being lost, a catastrophe, retreat, and defeat have an effect on the battle field or on diplomacy?

[MikeS]

The LA Times spotted the dark cloud. They want to know,

"So here are the real questions, Mr. President: How do we degrade Al Qaeda's ability to replace the leaders we manage to kill? How do we dry up its source of recruits? Who can convince young radicals that killing themselves and scores of innocents won't serve Islam or improve Muslim life in Iraq, the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories, New York or anywhere else? What political, social and religious progress, what kind of education, what kind of economic development will weaken the appeal of the fanatical Islamist message?"

They should consider bin Laden's "strong horse" recruitment strategy which seems to be supported the the poll mentioned here.

[Rick Ballard]

"But it is easy enough to predict that the terrorists know exactly when Petraeus will come back to the US to testify on the progress of the surge, and we will see a sharp increase in attacks to coincide."

Yep. The Dem/Splodeydope alliance is going to kill a lot of people in August in order to ensure a reversal of this journalistic feint. The Iraqi legislature's decision to take August as a vacation month makes Petraeus' report a foregone conclusion. The three major legislative components of the 18 objectives, oil revenue, de-Baathification reform and the establishment of provincial election processes are dead for the moment.

The Iraqi legislature appears to have taken the Palestinian concept of never missing a chance to miss a chance to heart. I must say that they have certainly been efficient in turning "democracy" into organized theft at a remarkably rapid pace. Maybe it's something in the water? Or something to do with their underlying moral premises?

[PaulV]

The Iraqi people, especially the Sunnis, Have wandered through the wilderness the last four years and have come to the conclusion that AQ is evil. That change in attitude ws as important as the surge itself in changing the face of the struggle (jihald to some) in Iraq. Whether the surge would have been as effective before is unknown.

[hit and run]

Novak

The morass in Iraq and deepening difficulties in Afghanistan have not deterred the Bush administration from taking on a dangerous and questionable new secret operation. High-level U.S. officials are working with their Turkish counterparts on a joint military operation to suppress Kurdish guerrillas and capture their leaders. Through covert activity, their goal is to forestall Turkey from invading Iraq.
...
What is Washington to do in the dilemma of two friends battling each other on an unwanted new front in Iraq?

The surprising answer was given in secret briefings on Capitol Hill last week by Eric S. Edelman, a former aide to Vice President Cheney who is now undersecretary of defense for policy. Edelman, a Foreign Service officer who once was U.S. ambassador to Turkey, revealed to lawmakers plans for a covert operation of U.S. Special Forces to help the Turks neutralize the PKK. They would behead the guerrilla organization by helping Turkey get rid of PKK leaders that they have targeted for years.

Edelman's listeners were stunned. Wasn't this risky? He responded that he was sure of success, adding that the U.S. role could be concealed and always would be denied. Even if all this is true, some of the briefed lawmakers left wondering whether this was a wise policy for handling the beleaguered Kurds, who had been betrayed so often by the U.S. government in years past.

Silly Edelman, thinking you could keep a lid on something when you brief congress.

I pick on Congress, since Powell and Armitage are no longer at State.

But it's still a guess. Maybe the admin wanted this operation out in the open, afterall.

[Thomas Crapper]

"Who can convince young radicals that killing themselves and scores of innocents won't serve Islam or improve Muslim life in Iraq, the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories, New York or anywhere else? What political, social and religious progress, what kind of education, what kind of economic development will weaken the appeal of the fanatical Islamist message?"

Helugu Khan,absolute wizard at it.

[PeterUK]

Mr Ballard,
"I must say that they have certainly been efficient in turning "democracy" into organized theft at a remarkably rapid pace."

Perhaps they have had a Congressional Advisory Committee.

[clarice]

Maybe they had French lessons.

[PeterUK]

Ali Bubba and the Forty Thieves wasn't just a fairy story.

[section9]

Understand that the Democrats have made their "twenty-year" bet on defeat. The O"Hanlon and Pollack piece, like the Klein piece earlier, are warnings to the Democratic political class from their outriders in the Opinion Shaping Circles that the Democrats could blow their best chance to win since 1976.

Rudy is going to win this election. Period. That's what happens when you bet on the U.S. Army to lose.

[kim]

I've been reading about Louis XIV supporting the Turks at the Gates of Vienna.
==============

[PeterUK]

Well.I don't know who,but it is obvious that someone has a slice of the action if the US withdraws from Iraq.This seems more than politics,domestic and international,it has all the smell of money,big money.

[cathyf]

I dunno, PUK. Seems to me that a major lesson from the Ames and Hanssen cases is how small a price people will take to sell out their country.

[PeterUK]

cathyf,
Admittedly so,but there are a number of players out there who buy countries and political parties,also the French betrayal vis a vie Oil for Food and at the UN was strictly business.

[Rick Ballard]

"it has all the smell of money,big money"

Lessee, the ten year projection (when all fields are brought to potential) is 8MBBL per day at, oh, let's say $70BBL. That comes to $560M per day or $204B per year for a country which has a total current annual GDP of $88B.

Yep. That's a fair pile. And given that islam is basically an ideotheological justification for a "winner takes all" spoils system, inshallah, the maneuvering of the Iraqi legislature to give the US that big ole purple finger is entirely understandable.

Interesting times.

[PeterUK]

Well we know the going rate for a British MP,whats a member of Congress run to?

[Rick Ballard]

"whats a member of Congress run to?"

Depends on what committees [s]he's on. Plus seniority and the safety of the district. Jefferson was from a Blue Barony and Blue Barons are kinda cheap - I think that $100K was overpaying. Kinda like tipping a car parker $20. Just flash.

[PeterUK]

So if some billionaire invites a pol onto his 450" yacht and says,"This unpleasantness in Iraq,it's bad for business,what was the name of that charity of yours?"

[Topsecretk9]

riffing off Hit and Run, this via the Prowler

Quietly House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is attempting to organize a series of international trips during August to undercut the Bush Administration's foreign policy, but has been trying to clear the calendar of any major legislative action, hoping that the fall session, with major moves on Iraq in play, will bring a wealth of pro-Democrat momentum.

FYI

[bio mom]

So the Iraqi government takes August off in the heart of the desert and 140 degree temps.

The U.S. Congress takes all of August past Labor Day off in a country considerably more hospitable in terms of weather, even in D.C., without accomplishing much.

The British parliament has been off since the end of June and won't return until later in October. London is not a bad place in the summer, weather wise.

The pots like to call the kettle black. And since Iraq was invaded (I am in favor, but nevertheless), the argument about the Iraqi government going on vacation while our soldiers fight there isn't that strong. Especially since the Iraqi army is not taking a holiday.

[bio mom]

So the Iraqi government takes August off in the heart of the desert and 140 degree temps.

The U.S. Congress takes all of August past Labor Day off in a country considerably more hospitable in terms of weather, even in D.C., without accomplishing much.

The British parliament has been off since the end of June and won't return until later in October. London is not a bad place in the summer, weather wise.

The pots like to call the kettle black. And since Iraq was invaded (I am in favor, but nevertheless), the argument about the Iraqi government going on vacation while our soldiers fight there isn't that strong. Especially since the Iraqi army is not taking a holiday.

[bio mom]

So the Iraqi government takes August off in the heart of the desert and 140 degree temps.

The U.S. Congress takes all of August past Labor Day off in a country considerably more hospitable in terms of weather, even in D.C., without accomplishing much.

The British parliament has been off since the end of June and won't return until later in October. London is not a bad place in the summer, weather wise.

The pots like to call the kettle black. And since Iraq was invaded (I am in favor, but nevertheless), the argument about the Iraqi government going on vacation while our soldiers fight there isn't that strong. Especially since the Iraqi army is not taking a holiday.

[bio mom]

So the Iraqi government takes August off in the heart of the desert and 140 degree temps.

The U.S. Congress takes all of August past Labor Day off in a country considerably more hospitable in terms of weather, even in D.C., without accomplishing much.

The British parliament has been off since the end of June and won't return until later in October. London is not a bad place in the summer, weather wise.

The pots like to call the kettle black. And since Iraq was invaded (I am in favor, but nevertheless), the argument about the Iraqi government going on vacation while our soldiers fight there isn't that strong. Especially since the Iraqi army is not taking a holiday.

[vnjagvet]

The lefty bloggers (Greenwald, MoveOn, Kos, FDL) are out in full force to undermine the Pollock and O'Hannlon piece by attacking them essentially as "pro war" hacks.

Althouse's liberal commenters are excoriating her and the authors as carrying BushHitler water.

This article must have hit a nerve.

Is it the end of the beginning?

[PeterUK]

!This article must have hit a nerve.

Is it the end of the beginning?"

It must be dispiriting to have been on the wrong side of history for decades.

[clarice]

God loves America!When he let the Dems win in 2006 he knew that people like Pelosi and Reid would lead them.

[Gmax]

It must be dispiriting to have been on the wrong side of history for decades.

Its the most endearing traits of a liberal to be totally oblivious to history. Doubt me? Ever listen to a liberal drone on about the great Presidency of Jimmy Carter? I rest my case.

[Gmax]

It must be dispiriting to have been on the wrong side of history for decades.

Its the most endearing traits of a liberal to be totally oblivious to history. Doubt me? Ever listen to a liberal drone on about the great Presidency of Jimmy Carter? I rest my case.

[sylvia]

That is amazing about Mathews. I watch his show fairly often and I always just want to shake him. But finally he is starting to think about this in a 3-D way, other than just 'Cheney is bad'. I wonder if this new thinking will also evolve into some understanding from him and from people globally that Bush did not go into Iraq just for the oil, but also to spread democracy. I would think that after watching all the heck Bush went through from everyone and him still persisting, it is becoming clearer.

[NancyM]

Clarice, I agree. After the initial depression of last November's loss faded a little, I came to believe exactly what you said: it was much better to lose in 2006 and give the Dems two years to show their true colors. If Republicans had still held both Congress and the White House, we wouldn't have a prayer in 2008. We do now.

[Jane]

Chief Justice Roberts has been taken to the hospital - perhaps after a fall.

[Rick Ballard]

"Is it the end of the beginning?"

Perhaps the beginning of moving the nutters off the front porch? Doesn't the current dystopian vision of the future involve a clamorous coronation of The Beast in barely more than five months - so that she can begin the lonnnng scorching of the earth that will end with her ascent?

In January/February of '03 the Deaniacs were running around in orange beanies, scaring the hell out of Iowans. The Beast isn't going to tolerate that kind of nonsense - far better for the nutters to have a bitter fall and a hopefully silent winter and spring.

[Rick Ballard]

'03 should have been '04.

[Jane]

The dems really do suck. What I can't get over is the dishonesty they get away with. Has it always been like that?

[Sue]

OMG!

I don't know if this is even true or not, but it looks like Schumer tried to kill Chief Justice Roberts. I mean, I'm just airing the possibility. It could be it was just an accident. But what are the odds that Schumer was talking trash about Roberts and now this? Hmmmm....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20039923/>Source

[Jane]

I heard that too Sue!

[Sue]

Jane,

That's two people who have heard it. It is starting to look like it is true. ::wink::

[PeterUK]

"Ever listen to a liberal drone on about the great Presidency of Jimmy Carter? I rest my case."

That is most unfair, ex-President Carter is revered wherever the ruling party has more than 90% of the vote,he is the father of the Iranian Revolution and bequeathed America its internationally respected FISA courts.His name has been put foeward for the World Council of the Senile,sorry Elders,the man is up there with Kofi Annan.

[PeterUK]

Does this man look like a pusher,of judges that is?

[Rick Ballard]

"Has it always been like that?"

Nope. 1968 was (IMO) the watershed. The current list to port became truly recognizable as such with the Humphrey and then McGovern nominations. There has always been plenty of rancor and division but it's hard to find blatant weasels of as low a stature as Schumer and Reid in party leadership prior to '68.

[Topsecretk9]

Wonder how long before the nuts start the giddy Judge Roberts demise posts, because you know it's coming...

[Mark]

If this amount of good news is able to creep into the MSM bloodline is it possible that it's going even better than this? I doubt they'd go overboard with their reporting of good news.

[PeterUK]

Apparently Harry Reid's nickname is PINKY

[Mark Cleveland]

Rush advanced a theory today and I have to agree regarding the NYT article. What democrat running for president, who voted for the war would this benefit? That's right, the Hildabeast. She can now say that she knew we would win and that her calls for "surrender" were only if we started to show we were winning. Same with Matthews. This is the plan by the Clinton war room. As Rush says, "I know these people like every square inch of my glorious naked body."

[clarice]

Well, Sue, I suppose it's tit for tat. The Kosniks are claiming Bush had Tillman murdered. Believe it or not--One can hardly predict where the nuroots will go next or if they can herd all the paranoid schizophrenics to the polls again.

[MikeS]

looks like Schumer tried to kill Chief Justice Roberts

What is even more suspicious is that there is no obvious evidence that Shumer was involved, no smoking gun.

Hmmm. That's very suspicious! We obviously need a very special counsel.

[Sue]

What is even more suspicious is that there is no obvious evidence that Shumer was involved, no smoking gun.

Uh, huh. See what I'm talkin' bout? Schumer is up to something. I betcha the coverup is already underway.

[clarice]

Instapundit cited to an article indicating there have been 15 recess appointments to the SCOTUS-including Warren and Brennan.
If you have one year left in your term and the Schumerites have announced they will not let any nominee out of committee(which is what he's saying) and you confirm that, should you waste your time with confirmation hearings or make a recess appointment? And isn't that a hell of a way to get out the Rep voters--elect us or who knows will be selected to the Court?

[MikeS]

I have a question for the board.

President Bush, in his speech this weekend said, "between 80 and 90 percent of suicide attacks in Iraq are carried out by foreign-born al Qaida terrorists."

Yet the LA Times and some Dems (John Kerry IIRC) claim that most of the KILLING is done by Sunni and Shiites (extremists?).

What are the facts?

[Jane]

That's two people who have heard it. It is starting to look like it is true. ::wink::

Oh it's true, and anyone who denies it must be tried for perjury and obstruction of Justice.

[PeterUK]

Caught in the act Where is Judge Roberts?

[hit and run]

We need a couple of things post haste.

A name and a saying.

You know, the equivalent of Bush lied, people died and Chimpymchitlerburton.

Schumer Yaps, People Collapse?

Schumer Stumps, Roberts Slumps?

As far as the name....eh, blank...

[hit and run]

Schumer stonewalls, Roberts falls

alas not a creative afternoon...

[RichatUF]

...the potential to produce not necessarily “victory” but a sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with...

That must be 'nuance'...

MikeS...

Yet the LA Times and some Dems (John Kerry IIRC) claim that most of the KILLING is done by Sunni and Shiites (extremists?)

It depends on what we are actually talking about. This site has the numbers of military casualities and this site [very anti-war] has a range of 68k to 74.4k (I suppose since March 03, about 52 months).

To parse it out: suicide attacks make up a small subset of total attacks, but are the most dramatic and usually produce mass casuality events. The different Iraqi partisian factions are the bulk of the attacks (when war looks like crime) and over the long run produce the greatest numbers of casualities (and it is easier to infiltrate assets and propanganda into the press on this side)

[RichatUF]

So I'm hearing that Schumer had something to do with Robert's fall...knew he was a snake, but that takes it too a whole new low

[MikeS]

Thanx Rich.

[Jane]

Schumer bitches, Roberts gets stitches.

[Sue]

Schumer quips, Roberts slips.

[PeterUK]

"Schumer quips, Roberts slips."

He isn't called "Chucky" for nothing.

[cathyf]

"between 80 and 90 percent of suicide attacks in Iraq are carried out by foreign-born al Qaida terrorists."

Yet the LA Times and some Dems (John Kerry IIRC) claim that most of the KILLING is done by Sunni and Shiites (extremists?).

What are the facts?

Those two statistics could be consistent if suicide attacks account for a small number of the killings. And I have seen fairly plausible-sounding claims that the suicide bomber is a particular subculture -- mildly-retarded basically clueless jihadi's (cousin marriages and theocracy ensure a robust supply from Saudi Arabia) who head off to Iraq and are duped into driving car/truck bombs which are detonated by remote control. In several cases where the hapless drivers have survived they say that they didn't know that the vehicle was a bomb.

Ok, but that's only part of the story... What are the means of killing in Iraq?

-- suicide bomber

-- IED-road

-- IED-crowd: market/mosque/etc.

-- assassinations, targetted street killings

-- execution on orders of sharia courts

-- killing as part of kidnap-for-ransom gone wrong

I'm quite willing to believe that the suicide bombers are not Iraqis, and also that most of the deaths are not caused by suicide bombers. I'm betting the the kidnap-for-ransom killings are mostly Iraqis (Saddam released 100,000 common criminals from his jails on the eve of the invasion.) Now the claims about the other categories? Those are a lot more controversial. It's obvious that it is in the Iraqis' interest to blame as many deaths as possible on al Qaeda (to preserve America as their allies against al Qaeda) while it is in al Qaeda's interest to blame as many deaths as possible on sectarian violence (to draw Iran and Saudi Arabia into Iraq while simultaneously causing the Americans to wander off after losing interest in a battle in Iraq-which-has-nothing-to-do-with-al-Qaeda.)

[PeterUK]

"Yon Chuckius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous".

[Bill in AZ]

It's more than "something to do with Roberts fall". Schumer hasn't denied pushing Roberts. Prolly a conspiracy, involving Comey, Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy - clouds over the Senate and the House.

[PeterUK]

"As the Senate convened, Caesar was attacked and stabbed to death by a group of senators who called themselves the Liberatores ("Liberators"); they justified their action on the grounds that they committed tyrannicide, not murder, and were preserving the Republic from Caesar's alleged monarchical ambitions."

Senators,the same all through history

[clarice]

Fox is reporting that Roberts suffered a seizure--SCOTUS spokesperson w/o knowledge to confirm or deny.

[Sue]

Oh sheesh. I hope not. I have been joking because I thought it wasn't serious, they were just being cautious with the Chief Justice.

I'll stop doing a parody of Keith Olbermann until we learn more.

[clarice]

Apparently he had a grand mal(sp?) seizure 13 years ago..Sounds like he may have epilepsy--we'll have to wait and see.

[RichatUF]

from the article-

But there is enough good happening on the battlefields of Iraq today that Congress should plan on sustaining the effort at least into 2008.

One thing I have been noticing in the elite press recently is these little warning flags. I've been seeing a lot about the economic problems in Iran and a walk back on the defeat talk about Iraq. Pollock and Hanson seem to be well conected enough that they might have some really good inside information [lots of speculation on my part].

Thinking in terms of the Clinton War Room, how would the Clinton Campaign triangulate among the strident Defeat America Now faction, a What about the Consequences Crowd, and We Want a Winner independent...

[Neo]

Joe Lieberman must have a big smile on his face.

[Neo]

how would the Clinton Campaign triangulate among the strident Defeat America Now faction

At the convention, Hiliary picks Joe Leiberman for her VP.

LOL

[RichatUF]

errata: Pollock and Hanson ...Pollack and O'Hanlon...sometimes I can really goof up names

[Sara]

Nope. 1968 was (IMO) the watershed. The current list to port became truly recognizable as such with the Humphrey and then McGovern nominations. There has always been plenty of rancor and division but it's hard to find blatant weasels of as low a stature as Schumer and Reid in party leadership prior to '68.

Although I agree that 1968 was a watershed political year, I am old enough to remember 1964 and the Johnson/Goldwater fight and Johnson's "Daisy" ad that was as bad as it gets.

And in my young and formative years, and after his death, my parents would still not mention FDR by name. In our house he was always called, "THAT man in the White House" and said with snark dripping off the words. My Grandfather, a staunch Republican, believed FDR was the most dangerous man ever produced in America and made no bones about his opinion right up to his own death in 1965.

[hit and run]

sometimes I can really goof up names

No sweat, RichatFSU.

[Sara]

And you were saying?

From the Corner:

Roberts Underground   [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

From DU natch:

If there is a God, then he is not too young to become the right-hand maiden

to Satan in the inner reaches of Hell.

[RichatUF]

H&R...

RichatFSU...watch it

[cathyf]

No sweat, RichatFSU.

Oooooooooo... H&R's in trouble now!!!

[hit and run]

Oh shoot. Right, go Gators!

::both arms out in front of body, one high one low, then brought together keeping elbows straight, clapping palms, then back out extended::

::repeat::

[Sara]

Fox breaking news:

FBI and IRS are "at this moment" searching home of Alaska Senator Ted Stevens.

[Topsecretk9]

Sara -- this tops it...DU debating whether or not Robert's concealed his medical condition (you know because Dems are stooopid dupes) and if so isn't it...get ready....you know it had to be woven in here somewhere....drumroll please....perjury

Alexander (1000+ posts)

Did Chief Justice John Roberts conceal his medical history?

He had an "unexplained" seizure in 1993, and now is in the hospital after a fall.

Is there something going on with his health that he didn't tell the US Senate?

-------

Let him not get REAL sick for a little while yet...

I'd like him to hang in, perhaps unwell and bedridden and unable to attend to his bench duties, but hoping to rally, until a Democratic president is sworn in.

Then he can resign due to ill health!!!!

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texastoast (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-30-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Oh please oh please oh please n/t

(nice huh? That's "a" Texastoast - I'm thinking "the" Texastoast- and don't think it's much of a stretch to think it)

----

Alexander (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-30-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. That's what I'm wondering - can they use this to get him out of the SCOTUS?

If he testified under oath that he had no medical problems, and this turns out to be false....that's perjury.

and of course it just gets disgutingly sicker - these people are depraved. Seriously - just flat out jerks.

[TerryeL]

I am not ready to give up on any and all political improvement in Iraq. I heard that the oil law was out of the cabinet and could be there will be vote on this when they come back from recess. In fact I would think they would put off a vote until they knew it would pass and everyone would be involved.

But the idea that these jokers, who can not even pass immigration reform would be lecturing the Iraqis on not getting things is done is such poetic irony, I can scarcely countenance it.

[Sara]

Well the SCOTUS spokesperson has confirmed that Roberts did suffer a "benign" seizure. They have also confirmed that after extensive tests, Roberts has nothing wrong except some scrapes due to the fall. In other words, no epilepsy, no tumor or bloodclots. He will stay on monitors at the hospital overnight for observation, but is considered to be healthy in all respects.

[TerryeL]

Oh for Chrisake, there are people on the Supreme Court who are older than dirt, who have survived cancer and God knows what else, and these jokers want to force Roberts out for a fall?

At least he can stay awake.

[stevesh]

Hugh Hewitt has John Burns on right now, and O'Hanlon on for the third hour. Burns says Patraeus will be forthright in his assesment in September.

Prediction: Greenwald (probably Sully, too) goes on an overnighter of Oh The Humanity biliousness's (sic), and a seventeen-scroll post tomorrow.

Hey, Hit, how 'bout them 'Canes?!

[Sara]

Via Fox News:

WASHINGTON — Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts suffered what is being described by doctors as a "benign idiopathic seizure" after falling Monday at his summer home in Maine.

He is staying in Penobscot Bay Medical Center overnight for observation, court officials told FOX News.

Roberts suffered was at his home in Port Clyde on Hupper Island when he fell around 2 p.m. ET. The fall caused minor scrapes, Supreme Court spokeswoman Kathy Arberg said.

Roberts, 52, was transported by boat and then ambulance from his summer home, a journey of some 40 miles. At Penn Bay Medical Center, he underwent a "thorough neurological evaluation, which revealed no cause for concern," Arberg said in a statement.

Roberts had a similar episode in 1993, she said.

Roberts was said to be "alert" upon arrival at the hospital, and endured several hours of exams. He is said to have "fully recovered."

[Sara]

More on Senator Stevens and the FBI/IRS search of his home via Fox News:

ANCHORAGE, Alaska — FBI and Internal Revenue Service agents searched the home of U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens on Monday.

Investigative sources told FOX News that the FBI executed a search warrant at the Girdwood, Alaska, house. Sources would not detail what the search team is looking for, but said agents continued to do extensive work at the property late Monday.

Stevens, who was formerly chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, has reportedly been under investigation for exchanging federal contracts for bribes, illegal gratuities and unreported gifts from VECO Corp., Alaska's largest oil-field engineering firm.

VECO has several contracts to provide logistics support for arctic research. Stevens previously acknowledged that authorities warned him to preserve records of a house-remodeling project involving VECO.

Stevens is not the only Alaska lawmaker being scrutinized. A government watchdog group filed a complaint against Sen. Lisa Murkowski and Rep. Don Young is also entangled with VECO, having received $157,000 from VECO employees and its political-action committee over the last 10 years.

[hit and run]

stevsh:
Hey, Hit, how 'bout them 'Canes?!

Well, I had thought about RichatUM.

But then there are other UM's and people might get confused.

You know, the Grizzlies (Montana), the Tigers (Mizzou), Bulldogs (Mississippi), Golden Gophers, (Minnesota) Terrapins (Maryland) and even the Red Hawks (Miami of OH).

At least, that's all the major UM's.

Oh wait, duh, another.

Feel silly for missing this one.

It's so obvious.

Tigers (Memphis)

There. That's all.

[hit and run]

UNFORCED ERROR: stevesh

[hit and run]

NO SLIGHT INTENDED: This feels like an oversight in need of correction.

Big time.

My apologies.

The Broncos - Fayetteville State University.

My home state even.

[RichatUF]

TerryeL

...the oil law was out of the cabinet and could be there will be vote on this when they come back from recess...

I'm with you here [this might actually be some of the back channel communications and the reason for the article]. There arabs, they consult and take their time doing it. Wouldn't be surprised if [a big if security holds up in Baghdad] they came back in mid-to-late August and passed a package of laws including an oil law, election reforms, et al and we put together a more effective police training programs (focusing on breaking up the kidnapping-for-profit rings) by leaning on SK and Japan to pump some personnel, equipment, and money into it.

[Topsecretk9]

and these jokers want to force Roberts out for a fall?

Not for just a fall - for failing to disclose to Senate Stoopid dupable Dems that he had a seizure 12 years before, been very healthy since but could or could NOT possibly have a benign seizure in the future - I mean come on Terrye, it's a clear-cut, plain as day devious obstruction of Justice -- it's PERJURY damn it!

[Topsecretk9]

nuts.

[RichatUF]

I had thought about RichatUM...

Almost went to UM (the real one) not the one in Ohio.

FBI and Internal Revenue Service agents searched the home of U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens...

Sucks to be him, it looks to be another real-estate transaction run afoul...