Anniversaries

Should we be wishing each other a Happy Joe Wilson Day?  It was a mere four years ago that his star shone ever so brightly across the firmament (OK, infirm-ament) with his NY Times op-ed, his Meet The Press engagement with Andrea Mitchell, and his WaPo interview with Walter Pincus.

And in a few days it will be a mere three years since his star was eclipsed somewhat by the release of a Senate Intelligence report; Susan Schmidt of the Wapo had the first resulting Wilson debunking (I took a tasteless victory lap myself), and Matthew Continetti of the Weekly Standard had lots of fun.  Bob Somerby plowed through Joe Wilson's subsequent explanations and prevarications.  And lest we forget, Joe was cut loose from the Kerry campaign.

But keep the candle burning!  Josh Marshall amuses us with this, from earlier this week:

Here on the Times Oped page you'll see David Brooks column claiming that the information Joe Wilson brought before the public four years ago turned out to all be a crock, a bunch of lies...

...

And with that knowledge, I have to say that the claim that Wilson's charges have been discredited, disproved or even meaningfully challenged is simply false. What he said on day one is all true. It's really as simple as that.

Of course, Dr.Marshall is far too sly a fox to actually specify just what it is that Joe Wilson charged, so it is a bit easier for him to defend his position.  And of course, the Wilson story as presented anonymously by Kristof and Pincus in May and June of 2003 was different from the story told by Wilson himself in July. (Kristof May 6; June 13; Pincus June 12)

Both Kristof and Pincus reported that Wilson debunked the forged Niger documents; Wilson did not make that claim publicly and explained that the reporters misquoted him.

Kristof explained that Wilson was sent "at the behest" of he Vice President; Wilson modified that claim, but even after Wilson's own op-ed Chris Matthews and Sen. Rockefeller stuck to the Kristof script.  I can't resist a flavor but you have to picture Matthews gyrating and drooling yourself:

MATTHEWS: At the behest of the vice president's office, the CIA was tasked by the vice president's office to do it. Senator, isn't that right?

ROCKEFELLER: That is correct.

GERGEN: Well, I thought what he said in "The New York Times" was -- in his piece, was that he was asked by the intelligence agencies for whom he had worked, they paid his way. He went pro bono in terms of his...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: At the request of the vice president's office. Right, Senator?

ROCKEFELLER: Absolutely correct.

Wilson was also adamant that his report settled the Niger question and that his wife played no role in sending him.  It is pretty clear that, his interpretation notwithstanding, his report did not settle the issue.  And after the release of her email seemingly nominating him for the job, is anyone still pretending that Ms. Plame played no role in sending her husband?

On the WMD issue, Joe's pre-war position was that Saddam had some chemical and/or biological capability; he became a lot smarter after the invasion, as did we all.

Well - do I have a point?  Not really; Wilson is not the one who was swept up in the legal process.

Comments

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

And the presence of at least a few people like Josh Marshall and these clowns on the DC jury in Libby's trial pretty much assured he couldn't be acquitted.

[Granddaddy Long Legs]

Tom, It boggles the mind that any reasonable person could be presented with all of Joe Wilson's (and Plame's) retractions and revisions and still echo their initial claims. I guess it just goes to show how so many people hold 'the narrative' to be a more important factor in interpreting current events than verifiable facts.

Obstinacy is certainly not limited to the socio-political left, but they seem to have cornered the market these days. It's funny though, I used to love Chris Matthews' show. Now the BDS is just too much to stomach. Is it possible for people like him to realize that they've created a thuggish, cartoonish caricature of Bush/Cheney/et al, and that they impugn their intellectual integrity every time they scramble to validate their paranoid delusions?

Reality-based indeed.

[Nick Kasoff]

Joe Wilson has almost as much credibility as Michael Moore. But at least Michael Moore is twisting the facts for what he considers a noble purpose. Wilson is just covering his behind.

Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report

[Other Tom]

"Wilson Debunked The Sixteen Words" is now as much a part of the liberal mythology as "Bush Lied, People Died." As we have seen almost from antiquity, there is no reasoning with those folks.

But while we are on the subject of anniversaries, let us not by any means fail to observe the one coming up in four short days. I refer, of course, to the exquisite analysis provided to the nation on July 10, 2001 by the eerily prescient spymaster, one Larry C. Johnson. Unforgettably entitled "The Declining Terrorist Threat," it begins as follows:

"The Declining Terrorist Threat
"By LARRY C. JOHNSON

"WASHINGTON -- Judging from news reports and the portrayal of villains in our popular entertainment, Americans are bedeviled by fantasies about terrorism. They seem to believe that terrorism is the greatest threat to the United States and that it is becoming more widespread and lethal. They are likely to think that the United States is the most popular target of terrorists. And they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.

"None of these beliefs are based in fact."

If you think I am moved to laugh out loud every time I read his words, you would be right.

[Ernie]

The lengths to which the left and the MSM go to preserve the Wilson/Plame myth are maddening. Unfortunately that myth is the basis for both the "Bush Lied" and the "Bush destroyed critics" memes, and we know they can't be allowed to die. I already posted on a different thread the facts that nobody in the MSM will mention and that no GOP official will ask in public, but they seem worth mentioning here, or at least mentioning one simple fact that shows what a farce this whole buisness is. Valerie Plame was working at CIA headquarters from 1998 to 2003 when her "cover was blown". Yes, she was openly reporting to work at CIA headquarters for 5 years, yet somehow her employment by the CIA was supposed to be a secret as a matter of national security. How on God's green earth can anyone, even the CIA, consider her employment "classified", "covert" or any kind of a secret when she reports to work at CIA headquarters every workday? It boggles the mind.

[clarice]

From Fox--Some good news for those of us who do not think terrorism is a bumpersticker, but a real threat:

"CINCINNATI — A federal appeals court on Friday ordered the dismissal of a lawsuit challenging President Bush's domestic spying program, saying the plaintiffs had no standing to sue.

The 2-1 ruling by the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel was not on the legality of the surveillance program. But it vacated an order by a lower court in Detroit last Augist that the post-911 warrantless surveillance aimed at uncovering terrorist activity was unconstitutional, violating rights to privacy and free speech and the separation of powers.

The American Civil Liberties Union led the suit on behalf of other groups including lawyers, journalists and scholars it says have been handicapped in doing their jobs by the government monitoring.

The case will be sent back to the U.S. District judge in Michigan for dismissal"

[Other Tom]

Great news, Clarice--that was the decision by that grandstanding nitwit Carter appointee, and it cried out for reversal from the moment it was published.

Now we await the banner headlines proclaiming this ruling as a "Stunning Rebuke to Critics of the Bush Administration." Right.

[section9]

Joe Wilson is Michael Moore without a camera crew.

Really, I can't understand how Josh, Matt, and the rest of the crowd keep falling for the Sanjay of the Left Blogosphere.

[Gabriel Sutherland]

Josh Marshall you ask?

More on that later.

More to come.

Working on a big story with CBS about this.

I'll be back with more later.

At best, Marshall is paying his hosting bills. At worst, he's an idealogical hack without a shred of credibility to his name. But he does have viewers, or in blogspeak, page loads.

[Extraneus]

Speaking of the dreaded "domestic spying program," I guess we'll never see a DOJ or special counsel investigation of the NYT leaks after all, huh? Not enough linkage to national security, I guess, as compared with the Plame "outing." Too bad.

[clarice]

Does Josh Marshall exist? Frankly, I always thought hs was "grassy kmoll" Blumentha;s' sock puppet.

[RalphL]

"on behalf of other groups including lawyers, journalists and scholars it says have been handicapped in doing their jobs"

I hope someone made a note of their names and numbers.

[BobS]

Here's Ben Stein this morning. Amazing overview and smackdown with nuance. Man he must drive lefties crazy.

http://spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=11675

[BobS]

crap...I meant without nuance

[RichatUF]

And lets not forget:

Today is also Pres. G W Bush's birthday

RichatUF

[BobS]

Great post by Lasky at your blog, Clarice!

[windansea]

"Breaking news -- John Edwards got some expensive haircuts and probably didn't pay enough attention to the bills," said spokeswoman Colleen Murray. "He didn't lie about weapons of mass destruction or spring Scooter Libby; he just got some expensive haircuts."

[royf]

windansea

That's cute coming from the Edwards, but IIRC Senator Edwards was the only politican in Washington to call Saddam's Iraq a "eminent threat".

A statement the democrats incorrectly say President used to push the invasion of Iraq. President Bush said that waiting for threats to become eminent wasn't a option after 9/11.

Was Edwards lying then of is he lying now?

Of course the MSM will point that out I'm sure. /s

[Topsecretk9]

--MATTHEWS: At the behest of the vice president's office, the CIA was tasked by the vice president's office to do it. Senator, isn't that right?--

And yet the CIA tasked themselves before Cheney even asked the CIA their assessment of it.

[Sue]

http://www.wnbc.com/politics/4063107/detail.html>Hillary 's Former Campaign Finance Director Indicted

[BobS]

With respect to Mathews...Didnt someone in here yesterday say that the Wilson's lawyer was on his show yesterday and that Mathews was taking her to task a bit. Anyone see it. I'm not able to bring myself to watch MSNBC-especially after the did to Imus.

[BobS]

Sue: There's just ONE MORE example of everybody else gets in trouble. I'm wondering if any of those guys will every say. "I guess I'll just roll over."

[royf]

eminent threat = imminent threat

sorry for my misuse of words, I'm not as educated as most here. but I found Edwards quote in a article by Stephen Hayes.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/396vvexd.asp

Although Democrats, including Kerry, had long paid lip service to a policy of regime change in Iraq, Edwards was one of the earliest and most outspoken Democratic hawks on Iraq following the September 11 attacks. On February 24, 2002, he described Saddam Hussein's regime as an "imminent threat" in an interview on CNN. "I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country."

[boris]

not as educated as most here

When I was young I couldn't even spell injunear, now I are one.

[Sue]

Roy,

No one here, that matters anyway, cares how words are spelled. We read Clarice's typos like they weren't even there. And "as well educated" is relevant, you know. We are posting amongst geniuses here. Trying to hang is a constant chore, especially if H&R is absent. ::grin::

[royf]

boris and sue

Thanks for the kind words they are appreciated. But of course my mistake wasn't simply a misspelled word but the misuse of a word with a entirely different meaning and I just wanted to correct my post.

[kaz]

And while we're marking anniversaries, shall we recall the London bombings of two years ago?

[RichatUF]

tsk9-

And yet the CIA tasked themselves before Cheney even asked the CIA their assessment of it...

And how would Rockefeller know much of anything unless he was told by the parties involved. This is the angle that steams me-the Senate Intelligence Committee, both its staff and members, mainlined Wilson's fable.

Nevermind the question all those mootbats never both asking-if Bush is so "dumb" how was he able to trick so many democrats into voting for AUF-Iraq

Biden (D-DE), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Edwards (D-NC), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea

Or all the Clinton Administration public statements.

RichatUF

[maryerose]

Bobs:
I saw Melanie Sloan from Crew who is representing the Wilsons in their civil suit screaming that Val was covert. She tried to insist that Cheney told scooter to uot Val and Matthews asked her for proof which she of course didn't have. The Wilsons and she are totally brainwashed on this topic. They are convinced of this phantom vendetta by Cheney and now see it all as a cover-up. I saw Wison on CNN and he spoke with a messianic fever. he actually thinks he's telling the truth. Sad and ultimately for Libby devastating that these two whackos are believed and listened to. Clearly deranged just like their consort Keith O.

[Topsecretk9]

Tom, It boggles the mind that any reasonable person could be presented with all of Joe Wilson's (and Plame's) retractions and revisions and still echo their initial claims. I guess it just goes to show how so many people hold 'the narrative' to be a more important factor in interpreting current events than verifiable facts.

Ever notice when a reporters does, in fact, press Wilson on his fictions he freaks out, runs to his willing minions for cover, and attacks the motives and loyalties of the reporter?

IIRC Paula Zahn became a GOP attack dog for unfairly sandbagging asking him to explain his unfounded claims.

[Sue]

On this date in history, the year 2005...

New York Times reporter Judith Miller was jailed after refusing to testify before a grand jury investigating the leak of an undercover CIA operative's name. (Miller was jailed for 85 days before agreeing to testify.)

[Sara]

Happy Birthday to President Bush.

I didn't listen to Joe Wilson the other night, but I did see him as I channel surfed on by and he looks terrible and very unkempt with that shaggy hair and beard. I guess he is trying to fit in to one of the last hippie bastions of Santa Fe, NM.

And for the uninterested, I'm blogging from under the patio cover in my backyard, in my bathing suit, and the thermometer just hit 110 degrees. I jump in the pool, cool off, blog for 10 to 15 minutes, jump in the pool, cool off, blog some more. It isn't even noon here yet.

[PeterUK]

"And while we're marking anniversaries, shall we recall the London bombings of two years ago?"

We should indeed! Unfortunately our "leaders" seem intent on wimping tall. To me this has all the nasty odour of the sell out to the European Union,we are being sold down the river.

[Sara]

From PUK's link, the Diane West article has this:

If they read Robert Spencer's jihadwatch.org, the essential daily compendium of jihad and dhimmi news, they might get a clue. But, very ominously, Mr. Spencer's Web site is being blocked by assorted organizations which, according to his readers, continue to provide access to assorted pro-jihad sites. Mr. Spencer reports he's "never received word of so many organizations banning this site all at once." These include the City of Chicago, Bank of America, Fidelity Investments, GE IT, JPMorgan Chase, Defense Finance and Accounting Services and now, a federal employee in Dallas informs him, the federal government.

Defense Finance and Accounting Services is who declared me deceased 2 months ago. And my other income comes from Fidelity Investments. Sheesh! I guess I can get some satisfaction in knowing that I use the money that comes from these sources to pay for blogging the very things they ban.

[windansea]

from Iowahawk

London - British public safety officials today increased the national alert level to "Quite Elevated Indeed" -- the highest category possible -- and appealed to UK citizens to "keep a sharp lookout for diverse people engaged in activities."

"We ask the public to report any behaviors by various people that may or may not be of a suspicious nature," said Lt. Clive Jameson of the Metropolitan Police Service. "We further ask the public to be especially vigilant for activities of broad stratas of people who may be from countries of some sort, especially those within the eastern and/or western hemisphere."

The elevated alert levels come on the heels of a week when London and Glasgow narrowly escaped potential events that intelligence experts say may have been related to diverse groups of people doing things. Initially police had specifically asked the public for information relating to doctors driving automobiles, but that initial warning brought angry denunciations from the British Medical Association and the UK Automobile Association.

[BobS]

Maryerose: Thank you.

What I'm still amazed by is that Val and Joe have be debunked and found to be liers, but Harry Waxman is able to abuse his power and hold hearings as its they are telling the truth. Waxman may have backed off when he realized that Bond was looking into the specific varacity of her testimony regarding her not having nothing to do with Joe's Niger trip while leaving a paper trail that she had.

And its still a surprise to me that Hayden had signed off on some phoney baloney statement for Waxman to use in his show hearing that Val had some sort of "classified" status. No wonder he met no resistance during his confirmation hearings.

Still that whole dog and pony show that Waxman held seems to have been just another propoganda tool and drive a news cycle for public perception.

We have to remember that dems ofen have no regard for truth when they are attempting to make political points. They've been doing just that of late by telling the public something besides they truth regarding the Libby prosecution and trial.

[PeterUK]

"British public safety officials today increased the national alert level to "Quite Elevated Indeed" -- the highest category possible -- and appealed to UK citizens to "keep a sharp lookout for diverse people engaged in activities."

This is somewhat complicated since we are in the midst of "celebrating our diversity".
Only yesterday a man of diversity went into a Glasgow library and asked for a book on suicide bombing.The librarian refused on the grounds that he wouldn't bring it back.
BTW,we can be grateful that the bombers were doctors,the NHS syringes used in the detonators did not work.Technicians worked overnight to repair the syringes and they are now back in service in a Birmingham hospital.

[Rick Ballard]

"This is somewhat complicated since we are in the midst of "celebrating our diversity"."

Are we quite sure that the inidents at the airport (btw - do we really need to use such pejorative terms as 'bombs', 'bombers', 'bombings' in a civilized discussion?) were not just a diverse persons means of celebrating diversity? After all, the world is a big place and diverse peoples have diverse (but wholly equal) customs. We mustn't be narrow minded about this.

[Carol Herman]

$$$ The money came from the "covert" drawer. Funds are put in, and are not accounted, for. Val had the key. I'd bet Tenet took it with him when he left. (The contents of that drawer. And, the keys to it.)

Money makes this world go around.

Oh, how Val accessed this cash remains, to this day, a secret. Nothing was ever reported. No notes kept. And, if you ever went to find it, you'd be sent looking for Brewster. Wherever Jennings "lives." Or how that spoof was created.

Wasn't cheap. Better than "petty cash."

[Jane]

Boy this sure is a nice place to come to today. Thanks TM. It is much appreciated!

[Jane]

So Rick, PUK, how do your names come up in bold when the rest of us just fade away?

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Talk back to Chris Matthews, and see if they will print it.

[PeterUK]

Exactly Mr Ballard,we should never forget these people came here to do the jobs the British wouldn't do,if the British will not celebrate their diversity by self immolation,then somebody else will have to.

[Sue]

45% support impeachment of Bush. For what?

[Jane]

Hmmmm, maybe this will work

[PeterUK]

"So Rick, PUK, how do your names come up in bold when the rest of us just fade away?"

There is a nominal registration fee.

[Rick Ballard]

Jane,

Anyone can see their name clearly by typing:

http://yargb.blogspot.com/

on the URL: line (and paying the nominal JOMC registration fee).

yrs &c.,

RB

KGB

[Sara]

Jane, I think those whose name is in bold have entered a URL as a link. Rick gave you his and you are welcome to enter mine at http://www.pal2pal.com/BLOGEE for FREE. ::smile::

[Cecil Turner]

Wilson was also adamant that his report settled the Niger question . . .

TM, recommend providing the link to Wilson's report ("NIGERIEN DENIAL OF URANIUM YELLOWCAKE SALES TO ROGUE STATES"), and let people decide for themselves whether it was dispositive. Even Jeff couldn't spin this one as the last word.

[Other Tom]

I just had the honor to post the following at the Chris Matthews site, under the nom de plume Larry C. Johnson. Eagerly waiting to see it in print:

"In a stinging rebuke to critics of the Bush administration, a federal appeals court today reversed a ruling by an affirmative-action political hack judge in Detroit concerning the vital NSA eavesdropping program. Scholars hailed the appellate court's decision as a victory for our constitutional system and the rule of law."

[Poppy(Patton)]

Here's a better Wilson pre-war, fear mongering peace on Iraq WMD.

http://www.politicsoftruth.com/editorials/big_cat.html

A "Big Cat" With Nothing to Lose

Published on Feb. 6, 2003 by the Los Angeles Times

[Topsecretk9]

I thought Poppy was Patton.

Incidentally - if impeachment proceedings are initiated won't then Flame's work file finally get opened?

[Poppy(Patton)]

I've been in the intel world for 25 years, have met with some CIA folks.

From all I have real on Wilson and the articles to which he contributed I do not believe Wilson did much 'misspeaking' I believe Valerie was also a SOURCE for that information, in some cases directlty and in some through her husband.

[Poppy(Patton)]

It is most definite that Wilson had a source besides what occurred in his meeting at HQ prior to his trip. The logical person to look to for how he got information was his wife. Obviously she treated him like an operative and didn't mind sharing information.

In one example, his comments on the missile tubes, sounds like it came right from Valerie.

[Topsecretk9]

Of course she did.

[maryerose]

Poppy:
Isn't it illegal for Val to LEAK this information to Joe?

[Poppy(Patton)]

Maryerose,

Short answer, we don't know. It would depend on what Joe's status was. Remember, as Larry Johnson, so delicately announced to the world, that the CIA uses retired Ambassadors in many cases as operatives.

Here could have been read in, then later read out and Valerie could always claim she told him soemthing when he was cleared, etc.

I think the CIA and DOJ could have taken them apart legally and ethically, but I don't think they wanted to do that since the press was making them martyers.

[Rick Ballard]

Maryrose,

Not if she was authorized to disclose it by someone higher up the food chain.

[Topsecretk9]

Another search

French police search former PM‘s office

Staff and agencies
06 July, 2007
By JEAN-PIERRE VERGES, Associated Press Writer 16 minutes ago

PARIS - Investigators searched the office of former Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin on Friday, a day after looking through his home as part of a probe trying to determine who was behind a political smear campaign, a police official said.

Investigative Judges Jean-Marie d‘Huy and Henri Pons and police from an investigation unit took part in the search of Villepin‘s office, said the police official, who agreed to discuss the case only if not quoted by name.

"I have just lived through ... moments that were not agreeable, but I know that the truth will come out," Villepin told journalists afterward.

The searches followed the discovery of Villepin‘s name in computer files belonging to a Defense Ministry official, Gen. Philippe Rondot, who had been ordered to investigate the affair. He wrote in his notes that two key players told him they acted on orders from Villepin.

Other prominent figures have been questioned, including former Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin and Michele Alliot-Marie, France‘s defense minister at the time of the smear campaign and now the interior minister.

[Cecil Turner]

Of course she did.

No kidding. This is her area of expertise, he knows bupkus about it. The pretense that people believe Wilson's obvious fiction is a very good indicator of how far in the tank the media is for Joe.

[Jane]

OT,

Can you see your remark there? Because I can't.

[Other Tom]

Jane: No, I can't. It appears that when you submit a comment, it must first be reviewed and approved before it shows up. Somehow I don't like my chances.

[anduril]

Best of the Web (pardon the lack of formatting, but I think you'll all get the jist (ya'll 'll get the jist?). Mostly I guess I liked the clever title:

Venus Envy

Can you trust Al Gore's scientific claims in support of global warmism? Not if this passage from a Gore op-ed in Sunday's New York Times is any indication:

Consider this tale of two planets. Earth and Venus are almost exactly the same size, and have almost exactly the same amount of carbon. The difference is that most of the carbon on Earth is in the ground--having been deposited there by various forms of life over the last 600 million years--and most of the carbon on Venus is in the atmosphere.

As a result, while the average temperature on Earth is a pleasant 59 degrees, the average temperature on Venus is 867 degrees. True, Venus is closer to the Sun than we are, but the fault is not in our star; Venus is three times hotter on average than Mercury, which is right next to the Sun. It's the carbon dioxide.

As blogger George Reisman notes, the atmosphere on Mars is 95% carbon dioxide, just shy of Venus's 96%. (The Earth's atmosphere, by contrast, is less than 0.04% CO2.) Average temperature on Mars? Eighty-one below zero.

Meanwhile, Agence France-Presse reports:

Scientists who probed two kilometers (1.2 miles) through a Greenland glacier to recover the oldest plant DNA on record said Thursday the planet was far warmer hundreds of thousands of years ago than is generally believed.

If scientists have such difficulty predicting past weather, surely we should be skeptical about politicians' predictions of future weather.

[PeterUK]

As question that has always intrigued me,you are an official in a country which in all intents and purposes is a French colony,you work for either the Government or the huge French conglomerate which controls your country's only real source of income uranium mining,a company with strong links to the French government.
Uranium is a highly restricted substance subject to international scrutiny,it is at the centre of a UN controversy,you have been/have not been selling illicit uranium,with or without the cognisance of either your own or the French government.Moreover you haver been selling it to a regime which,a) has paid you a vast amount of money, b) will kill you if you divulge the transaction.
A fairly high profile American ex-ambassador,to whit one Joseph C. Wilson IV,he asks you a simple question,
"Have you been selling yellow cake to the Iraq regime of Saddam Hussein"?
What would be your answer?

[Syl]

I just watched David Shuster bullying Fouad Adjami over Libby and Iraq! Shuster can be bad but this was appalling even for him.

And I could feel the roar of the moonbats joy as he did so.

It was disgraceful. F'n' disgraceful.

[anduril]

Paul at Powerline writes (in part):

E.J. enraged, again

E.J. Dionne announces that he's enraged that President Bush commuted Scooter Libby's jail sentence. Last week Dionne was enraged about the Supreme Court's ruling that the McCain-Feingold Act is unconstitutional when applied to bar an ad asking folks to urge their Senator not to filibuster judicial appointments. As I noted here, Dionne's column contained no legal analysis and betrayed no understanding of the decision that had him so worked up.

Similarly, Dionne's latest outpouring of anger shows no understanding of clemency issues. Dionne tries to apply sentencing law to the commutation of Libby's sentence. Thus, he writes that Bush's action "left experts in sentencing law scratching their heads." But sentencing law only applies when one is imposing a sentence; the sentencing guidelines have no applicability when the question is commuting a sentence. Dionne's argument is a bit like complaining that Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich over tax evasion charges had tax law experts scratching their heads, or that Carter's pardon of draft dodgers showed an inadequate understanding of the selective service laws.

...

UPDATE: Dionne isn't the only one whose partisanship blinds him to a proper understanding of this matter. As one reader notes, Bill Clinton has asserted that it is inappropriate to commute the sentence of someone who has stood trial because "there are guidelines for what happens when somebody is convicted," but it is fine to pardon a fugitive like Marc Rich to prevent the government from bringing him to trial. I had always thought there were guidelines for what happens when one is under indictment. And I had naively assumed that becoming a fugitive compounded the offense, not that it made one a better candidate for clemency.

[Carol Herman]

Poppy (Patton), and Top Secret K9;

I do believe Valerie was also a source to Judith Miller.

Yup. All seems quiet on that front. But it doesn't mean the story's finished. Or that we won't get much more information, ahead.

A lot of the stuff against Bush was "invented" in 2000. When the Bonkeys thought they'd give him a very rough ride.

Then, when 2004 rolled around, the Bonkeys hit some turbulance of their own. Heck, if all the GOP had today was McCain, where would people go to find a more like-able candidate?

What we have is that the Bonkeys are running a Stock Theater Company. And, the material is very stale. The stuff they're using can die, like vaudeville.

[RichatUF]

Poppy(Patton)

...I believe Valerie was also a SOURCE for that information, in some cases directlty...

Which makes this Fitz "investigation" an even bigger travesty-

PeterUK-

At the top of the Wilson debrief it says: "The subsources of the following information knew their remarks could reach the US Government and may have intended to influence as well as inform."

Another analyst thought that since France controlled the mines, they wouldn't be up to any funny business. I am so hoping that a boatload of French agents defect to the US with thick files to avoid prosecution.

a similiar story

RichatUF

[PeterUK]

RichatUF,

"At the top of the Wilson debrief it says: "The subsources of the following information knew their remarks could reach the US Government and may have intended to influence as well as inform."

Since Dominique de Villepin screwed Colin Powell,very obviously and publicly,it is most odd that nobody reached that conclusion.

[SteveMG]

Anyone else catch David Shuster smearing Fouad Ajami on Hardball?

They're called metaphors, Mr. Shuster. Literary devices? Figures of speech? Similes, synecdoches, those type of things.

Unbelievable hit job.

Apparently things like objectivity and balance and fairness on the part of MSNBC news people isn't a requirement anymore.

I think even Olbermann would turn away.

SMG

[Rick Ballard]

"Apparently things like objectivity and balance and fairness on the part of MSNBC news people isn't a requirement anymore."

These are tryouts for making the MSM A Team that will give the Dems their vaunted 15 point advantage. The problem for the DEMSM in '08 is going to be even worse than it was in '04 IMO. As the Obamarama stumbles to a bitter close in Iowa and South Carolina with Hussein stumbling off stage filled with so many Clinton poison arrows that he'll be able to lead a St Stephen's Day Parade the electorate is going to be filled with dread and horror at the thought of Bubba and The Beast prowling the WH again. The Beast's negative rating never drops (except in very carefully selected polling groups) so the MSM is going to have to go on three shift overtime to drag the Rep down.

It's going to be loads of fun and a fine spectacle.

[Birdseye]

"Kristof explained that Wilson was sent "at the behest" of he Vice President (to Niger)."

Time and time again we have this crap. But is it really crap? I have to wonder because this is something that can be easily resolved if Cheney were to stand before the world and declare categorically whether he did or did not send the Joe Lying Wilson to Niger. What is Cheney afraid of? The truth?

[clarice]

We know all about Shuster.He is an idiot who peddled obvious falsehoods on which we caught him numerous times--many straight from Leopold or Blumenthal's pen. It kept him employed at moonbatNBC.

Now that Libby's sentence has been commuted, I take it the channel will focus its attention on something equally as idiotic--impeachment.

Does anyone except the right watch it? I mean except the right for new material?

[Other Tom]

In case anyone needed reminding, the Brits are in a class by themselves in the field of obituaries. The following is from the U.K. Telegraph; imagine it running in the New York Times. It begins as follows:

“Count Gottfried von Bismarck, who was found dead on Monday aged 44, was a louche German aristocrat with a multi-faceted history as a pleasure-seeking heroin addict, hell-raising alcoholic, flamboyant waster and a reckless and extravagant host of homosexual orgies.

“The great-great-grandson of Prince Otto, Germany's Iron Chancellor and architect of the modern German state, the young von Bismarck showed early promise as a brilliant scholar, but led an exotic life of gilded aimlessness that attracted the attention of the gossip columns from the moment he arrived in Oxford in 1983 and hosted a dinner at which the severed heads of two pigs were placed at either end of the table.

“When not clad in the lederhosen of his homeland, he cultivated an air of sophisticated complexity by appearing in women's clothes, set off by lipstick and fishnet stockings. This aura of dangerous "glamour" charmed a large circle of friends and acquaintances drawn from the jeunesse dorée of the age; many of them knew him at Oxford, where he made friends such as Darius Guppy and Viscount Althorp and became an enthusiastic, rubber-clad member of the Piers Gaveston Society and the drink-fuelled Bullingdon and Loders clubs.

“Perhaps unsurprisingly he managed only a Third in Politics, Philosophy and Economics.”

Perhaps we could commission a prize for the best translation of this thing into modern NY Times language.

Can anyone recall what the Newspaper of Record had to say on the occasion of the death of the louche heroin addict Kennedy who died in some flophouse in Florida? Did they include the term "aristocrat," but omit the rest? Has the phrase, "exotic life of gilded aimlessness" ever been applied to any Kennedy by that newspaper? (Someone, please, do a quick Lexus/Nexus search and let us know.)

Has the Times, ever in its history, acknowledged that such a thing as a "homosexual orgy" has ever occurred, dating from the time of Caligula?

[SteveMG]

Cheney were to stand before the world and declare categorically whether he did or did not send the Joe Lying Wilson to Niger. What is Cheney afraid of? The truth?

Sorry my friend. This has long shown to be untrue.

The decision to send Wilson was done one full day before the VP requested that his staff ask the CIA about the reports that Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger.

Moreover, the VP has told reporters that he had no knowledge - none - of the Wilson field trip before he went or after he returned and was orally debriefed by the Agency.

Somehow, I think this is not sufficient for you.

SMG

[Topsecretk9]

Cheney were to stand before the world and declare categorically whether he did or did not send the Joe Lying Wilson to Niger. What is Cheney afraid of? The truth?

Well, I guess he was not afraid because declared this September 14, 2003:

and this supports it

Mrs. Wilson's February 12, 2002 memo.

...So where do I fit in? As you may recall, [redacted] of CP/[office 2] recently approached my husband to possibly use his contacts in Niger to investigate [a separate Niger matter]. After many fits and starts, [redacted] finally advised that the station wished to pursue this with liaison. My husband is willing to help, if it makes sense, but no problem if not. End of story.

Now, with this report, it is clear that the IC is still wondering what is going on… my husband has good relations with both the PM and the former minister of mines, not to mention lots of French contacts, both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity. To be frank with you, I was somewhat embarrassed by the agency's sloppy work last go-round, and I am hesitant to suggest anything again. However, [my husband] may be in a position to assist. Therefore, request your thoughts on what, if anything, to pursue here. Thank you for your time on this.

-----

“Briefer’s Tasking for Richard Cheney on 02/13/2002.” It begins: Briefer: David D. Terry Briefing Date: 02/13/2002 Principal: Richard Cheney

Tasking:
The VP was shown an assessment (he thought from [the Defense Intelligence Agency]) that Iraq is purchasing uranium from Africa. He would like our assessment of that transaction and its implications for Iraq’s nuclear program. A memo for tomorrow’s brief would be great.

---

February 14, 2002. That memo appears to begin — it’s not possible to say for sure because it is blacked out — with a discussion of the uranium issue, followed by this statement:

--We have tasked our clandestine source[s] with ties to the Nigerien Government and consortium officials to seek additional information on the contract. We also are working with the Embassy and the defense attaché’s office in Niamey [Niger] to verify their reports.--

[narciso]

It's funny how none of the big Plame testimony books; and I use that category
with "Politics of Truth" loosely or
the Murray Weiss book I previewed earlier; make much mention of COGEMA's role in this.
They argue,well it's controlled by the French and they would never make corrupt
deals with 3rd world regimes (Total& Sudan,
Osirak anyone) or their role in financing
Rocco Martino, the purveyor of the Niger
documents;so Joe is of course right. It's interesting there was this level of
attention was paid to a former Ambassador
on a CIA project; was in 1992. James Theberge, a chief player at CSIS, Ambassador
to Chile, was on the board of some enterprise that dealt with the arms trade to Iraq (The ABC staffer who developed this story; Dan Freedman, would go on to write
some overheated boilerplate book; The Spider
web; about the Iraq affair; both here and the UK; with Matrik Churchill. This little
'faux' scandal was used as Democratic tslking points, up into the early part of '93;much like this Plame business has gone now when all of a sudden the steam ran out of the prosecutions of several officials like Carlos Cardoen & Teledyne, or the Matrix Churchill affair after it had sufficiently tarnished John Major's government; so Labour could take hold; If hey had known that Blair would practically be Gaitskell reincarnated one wonders what they would have done.
One is reminded that Wilaon'a expertise, stemmed from being a jazz player in Baghdad in the run up to the war; Glaspie his superior was no help an Arabist who coddled the other Baathists in Damascus, before coming to Baghdad. Eagleton and Bodine; once and future ORHA employees who stood by during the Anfal campaign; the latter would
sabotage John O'Neil in Yemen, indirectly leading to his rendesvous with fate at the
WTC (Most of this can be gleaned from Robert Kaplan's "The Arabists")Hume Horan, the Argentine born half Iranian, who was the department's best linguist; which is why the Saudis kicked him out, after 6 monthes; they won't make that mistake again)was the hero of the piece. By rights he should have been the Ambassador there, instead of Bremer or even Khalilzhad. His fate was to be the CPA's envoy to the Shia; in a department that alternately despised and patronized them; hence the coddling of Muqtada Sadr; which probably contributed to his all too sudden death.

[Topsecretk9]

My link didn't work - fixed

Well, I guess he was not afraid because -HE-declared this September 14, 2003:

[hoosierhoops]

“Count Gottfried von Bismarck, who was found dead on Monday aged 44, was a louche German aristocrat with a multi-faceted history as a pleasure-seeking heroin addict, hell-raising alcoholic, flamboyant waster and a reckless and extravagant host of homosexual orgies.

---------------------------------------
good to hear from you again Other Tom
I was afraid chch16 was going to run to off..
I found it amusing reading your post..My wife and I for many years have best friends in the Netherlands and when we visit every year we view another world, the lifesytle,
the TV..hell the red light district is a kick in the pants...you can find every wierd lifestyle in Amsterdam.But we have the closest friends for 30 years that are so normal and so good..
God i wish i was dutch sometimes and our friends wish they were american sometime...
Thus..this is the world..
Kind regards OT..keep on blogging bro'
And Hit and Run..hope you have enjoyed your vacation..We miss U!!!!

[Topsecretk9]

It's funny how none of the big Plame testimony books; and I use that categorywith "Politics of Truth" loosely or the Murray Weiss book I previewed earlier; make much mention of COGEMA's role in this.
They argue,well it's controlled by the French and they would never make corrupt deals with 3rd world regimes

Yeah, because the French would never be involved in things like corruption, conspiracies and forgeries and such

[RichatUF]

tsk9-

Now now there tsk9, the French are trustworthy allies and they would never get involved in a scandal involving deceit, money, and power. Those types of scandals only involve Bush and Cheney. And if all else fails, this scandal will be blamed on Bush-"I Blame Bush"-its that easy.

On a serious note: I wonder if some of those secret Clearstream accounts include the name William Jefferson and his network of companies...could get interesting.

RichatUF

[Topsecretk9]

Rich --(and sorry this is a long paste here)

this is via the cooperative research site (do not know how realiabe)

Late April or Early May 2002-June 2002: French Intelligence Investigates Purported Uranium Agreement between Iraq and Niger; Determines the Allegation is Baseless The CIA sends a cable to France’s intelligence agency, the Direction Generale de la Securite Exterieure, communicating concerns about intelligence suggesting that Iraq is attempting to purchase uranium from Niger (Another cable had been sent the year before (see Summer 2001)). Specifically, the CIA says it is concerned about an alleged agreement between Iraq and Niger on the sale of 500 tons that was signed by Nigerian officials. (In an interview with the Los Angeles Times, Chouet will note that the details of this agreement matched those of the forged documents) [LOS ANGELES TIMES, 12/11/2005] The CIA asks for an immediate answer about the authenticity of the information. [LA REPUBBLICA (ROME), 12/1/2005] In response, French intelligence official Alain Chouet, head of a 700-person intelligence unit specializing in weapons proliferation and terrorism, sends an undercover team of five or six men to Niger to check on the security of Niger’s uranium. The team finds nothing that lends any credence to the alleged agreement. [LA REPUBBLICA (ROME), 12/1/2005; LOS ANGELES TIMES, 12/11/2005] Chouet recalls: “[O]nce back, they told me a very simple thing: ‘the American information on uranium is all bullsh_t.’” [LA REPUBBLICA (ROME), 12/1/2005] The French summarize the results of their investigation in a series of formal cables they send to CIA offices in Langley and Paris. Chouet later tells the Times that they communicated their doubts about the claims in no uncertain terms. “We told the Americans, ‘Bullshi_t. It doesn’t make any sense.’” [LA REPUBBLICA (ROME), 12/1/2005; LOS ANGELES TIMES, 12/11/2005] Entity Tags: Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure, Central Intelligence Agency Timeline Tags: Events Leading to Iraq Invasion Late June 2002: CIA Allegedly Sends France Part of Forged Niger Documents According to French intelligence official Alain Chouet, France receives a “sample” of the forged Niger documents from the CIA. Chouet’s story conflicts with what has been reported elsewhere. According to all other accounts, the US does not obtain the documents until mid-October 2002, some three and a half months later. Explaining this to the Los Angeles Times, Chouet recounts: “If what I’m saying surprises you, I can’t help it. I tell you I received a ‘sample’ of those documents in the summer of 2002 from Langley. They sent the sealed envelope to Paris through the usual intelligence channels. I can remember they were no more than a dozen pages. There was a short introduction where the CIA explained the meaning of the documents and no more than three complete documents, I would say. After a quick scrutiny we decided it was all rubbish. Gross fakes. The document which struck me most referred to the Iraqi Ambassador to the Holy See. Reading that page, I thought back to the odd and general request of summer 2001 and wondered: ‘Hey, the Americans… they have had this stuff for one year and they tell us only now, after we have already been to Niger twice.’ Anyway the Americans didn’t say who they got that stuff from, then or later. But we discovered things ourselves.… First of all, those documents, as far as one could read, led to the Niger Embassy in Rome.” [LA REPUBBLICA (ROME), 12/1/2005] Coincidentally, it is on this day that Martino first contacts the French with an offer to sell them the forged documents (see Late June 2002). [LA REPUBBLICA (ROME), 12/1/2005]

but in light of the prolific CIA WMD covert expert was an active cabler - plus

The report forwarded below has prompted me to send this on to you and request your comments and opinion. Briefly, it seems that Niger has signed a contract with Iraq to sell them uranium. The IC [Intelligence Community] is getting spun up about this for obvious reasons. The embassy in Niamey has taken the position that this report can't be true — they have such cozy relations with the GON [Government of Niger] that they would know if something like this transpired.

but how does the info jive?

--I thought back to the odd and general request of summer 2001 and wondered: ‘Hey, the Americans… they have had this stuff for one year and they tell us only now--

He's saying the CIA had the docs since summer 2001

and in particular, we did learn that the CIA did have copies (during the Libby trial) and they were never analyzed, authenticated or flipping looked at?

[RichatUF]

Interesting-the June 2002 timeframe fits with Sy Hersch's Stovepipe article-claiming the documents were forged by former agents.

And something about the summer 2001 timeframe-I can't remember but I thought there was a report floating in the ether about some uranium stored in Benin...

And the rehabilitaition of "whistleblower" Valerie Plame begins.

I Blame Bush™

graf-

Gallucci has known Barlow since the late 1980s, when Barlow was tracking the work of A.Q. Khan, the Pakistani scientist amassing materials to produce nuclear weapons. Some of the men setting policy at the Defense Department at the time of Barlow's firing -- Stephen J. Hadley, Paul D. Wolfowitz and Dick Cheney -- resurfaced in the current Bush administration, which Democrats and others have accused of shaping intelligence on the Iraq war to fit political goals....Brian and Gallucci believe that had Barlow's alarms been heeded in 1989, Khan might have been deterred from building the world's largest atomic black market

See its easy-if Bush hadn't been elected in 2001, then AQ Khan wouldn't have had to develop his nuclear black market starting back in the late 1980's-perfect sense

RichatUF

[RichatUF]

oops! rehabilitaition rehabilITATIon

[Birdseye]

SteveMG: Somehow, I think this is not sufficient for you.

You are so right. I just feel that, overall, the Republicans' response to the crap dished out daily by Matthews, et all is so, so tepid. Like Byron York who never ask tough questions whenever he appears on MTP and the topic turns to Libby for fear people will never see his face on MTP again. Yeah, I wish Cheney will come out to forcefully deny, in Clinton finger-wagging-Lewinsky style if that's not too off putting, that he did not send Wilson to Niger and then ask the MSM which part of the statement he has made they do not understand. Just wishing if this does not offend anyone.

[Sara]

Has anyone ever tried to find the original DOD request that was the genesis for Val's 2/12/2002 memo?

[Topsecretk9]

Rich

Interesting-the June 2002 timeframe fits with Sy Hersch's Stovepipe article-claiming the documents were forged by former agents.

Exactly what I thought - especially given that retired agent Vince Cast(?) had knowledge of the forgeries and was keeping track of them.

Yeah, I wish Cheney will come out to forcefully deny, in Clinton finger-wagging-Lewinsky style if that's not too off putting, that he did not send Wilson to Niger and then ask the MSM which part of the statement he has made they do not understand. Just wishing if this does not offend anyone.

Bird -- see here and here...memories aren't reliable apparently.

[Sara]

Birdseye, read the 9/14/2003 transcript that TSK9 just posted a link to above. The VP is pretty adamant about NOT knowing or sending Joe Wilson in that interview with Tim Russert. I'm not sure how often, if at all, he has addressed the issue since because of the ongoing legal cases and Scooter's trial.

[RichatUF]

tsk9-

we did learn that the CIA did have copies (during the Libby trial) and they were never analyzed, authenticated or flipping looked at?

I wonder what the look on the CIA "wmd experts" faces will be when Iran tests their nuclear weapon-maybe even to kick off Ramadan [12/13 September 2007 this year, running to 12 Oct]: about what it was like when India and Pakistan surprised them in 1998 with 11 total (5 Indian and 6 Pakistani) in May 1998 or the North Korean test (it might have been a dud) in Oct 2006.

And I didn't recall this part of the trial-I read that the alphabet soup of agencies had steady reporting from MENA about proliferation and uranium [and something about a DIA report from Oct 2001 sticks out], but its news to me that something regarding Niger crossed the desk.

RichatUF

[Topsecretk9]

--The VP is pretty adamant about NOT knowing or sending Joe Wilson in that interview with Tim Russert.--

Not only that, Cheney's statement is consistent with the facts, where as Wilson's fiction has been in perpetual re-write mode to afix for all his inaccuracies, literary flair and falsehoods.

[RichatUF]

tsk9-

Vincent Cannistraro

highlights-

ran the Contras taskforce [hum, Iran-Contra]

chaired the Afghanistan Working Group

lead agency investigation into Pan Am 103 (isn't the conviction in that case in jeporady because Iran and Syria might have had a hand in it?)

retired from the agency in 1991

[Sara]

I wish Verner would come back. She was always our resident VIPs expert. Now that the Libby matter is pretty much settled for the time being, I'd like to get back to the NYT leaks, the MOM affair, and some of the other CIA cabal loose ends.

[Topsecretk9]

Sorry, last is to Sara -- really trying to remember to address people at JMH's request.

Rich

but its news to me that something regarding Niger crossed the desk.

Empty hosted

- INR memo intorduce and the info is on page 2, last paragraph - they, meaning CIA, got their own set

[RichatUF]

oh forgot

Who else was at the Vatican with Mr.Cannistraro during the relevant timeframe:

Wissam al-Zahawie

graf-

To this very important and sensitive post in Rome, Zahawie was appointed in 1997, holding the job of Saddam's ambassador to the Holy See until 2000...

RichatUF

[RichatUF]

Reading the INR memo was like reading it for the first time...

[Topsecretk9]

Rich

The stovepipe article is consistent an it does sound like that certain active (not retired) CIA people were complicit in a strategic withholding and suppressing of the Niger knowledge and documents until a certain engage time.

[Birdseye]

Thanks TS9 (I've read) and Sara (reread).

Problem is there is little impact for the average person who probably has not seen or read the material you pointed out. Thus nothing is ever going to stop these irritating re-writes. Nothing, in my view, will be better than a full Cheney denial. Even Leftist CNN would be forced to replay the tape and this will drive the Leftoids crazy (I hope). Just wishing. I also wish President Bush will release the Clinton pardon papers (which were once sought by some newspapers?) now that Clinton has openly criticized the commutation of Libby's harsh sentence. Or at least declare that what he did for Libby is wrong in his predecessor's view perhaps because Libby did not owe the US government hundreds of millions or perhaps his brother-in-law did not receive a dime or even perhaps Libby's wife did not promise to donate to his future Library. Why, in heaven's name, be so civil to someone who has no qualms to stab you in the back - time and time again? Just wishing.

[Topsecretk9]

A sidenote - if anything reported by Chouet (who has been discredited or disgraced in some manner I believe) is to be believed -- and let's acknowledge that every lefty has jumped on his bandwagon and touted him - at minimum this is an indication that Plame super sucked at the sleuthy portion of her CIA agentness

I thought back to the odd and general request of summer 2001 and wondered: ‘Hey, the Americans… they have had this stuff for one year and they tell us only now

and in re-reading this I am not clear if he is actually saying the CIA had them in 2000, not 2001 as I originally interpreted it.

Here is just that part - maybe someone can interpret better

Late June 2002: CIA Allegedly Sends France Part of Forged Niger Documents According to French intelligence official Alain Chouet, France receives a “sample” of the forged Niger documents from the CIA. Chouet’s story conflicts with what has been reported elsewhere. According to all other accounts, the US does not obtain the documents until mid-October 2002, some three and a half months later. Explaining this to the Los Angeles Times, Chouet recounts: “If what I’m saying surprises you, I can’t help it. I tell you I received a ‘sample’ of those documents in the summer of 2002 from Langley. They sent the sealed envelope to Paris through the usual intelligence channels. I can remember they were no more than a dozen pages. There was a short introduction where the CIA explained the meaning of the documents and no more than three complete documents, I would say. After a quick scrutiny we decided it was all rubbish. Gross fakes. The document which struck me most referred to the Iraqi Ambassador to the Holy See. Reading that page, I thought back to the odd and general request of summer 2001 and wondered: ‘Hey, the Americans… they have had this stuff for one year and they tell us only now, after we have already been to Niger twice.’ Anyway the Americans didn’t say who they got that stuff from, then or later. But we discovered things ourselves

[Sara]

OT - What the heck is going on with the Brits? First the doctors, now the cops?

As many as eight British cops suspected of links to Al Qaeda

[Topsecretk9]

Thus nothing is ever going to stop these irritating re-writes. Nothing, in my view, will be better than a full Cheney denial.

Ah Bird - I see what you are seeing a bit, now. On some level, perhaps, it would be a stake, but my guess is Wilson would trot out his beard and claim that Cheney was smearing, victimizing, attacking in an attempt to stifle his freedom of speech at the podium of hundreds of microphones at the national press club and then accuse Cheney attempting to obstruct justice in the civil case or stupid crap he usually dreams up.

He's probably lump in a few oblique references to parasitic joos and gay baiting as well.