Novak, By The Book

A book excerpt presents Robert Novak's latest version of his fateful chat with Richard Armitage about Joe Wilson's wife:

Armitage was giving me high-level insider gossip, unusual in a first meeting. About halfway through our session, I brought up Bush's sixteen words. What Armitage told me generally confirmed what I had learned from sources the previous day while I was reporting for the Fran Townsend column.

I then asked Armitage a question that had been puzzling me but, for the sake of my future peace of mind, would better have been left unasked.

Why would the CIA send Joseph Wilson, not an expert in nuclear proliferation and with no intelligence experience, on the mission to Niger?

"Well," Armitage replied, "you know his wife works at CIA, and she suggested that he be sent to Niger." "His wife works at CIA?" I asked. "Yeah, in counterproliferation."

He mentioned her first name, Valerie. Armitage smiled and said: "That's real Evans and Novak, isn't it?" I believe he meant that was the kind of inside information that my late partner, Rowland Evans, and I had featured in our column for so long. I interpreted that as meaning Armitage expected to see the item published in my column.

The exchange about Wilson's wife lasted no more than sixty seconds.

Interesting.  This old post has the Novak version before he was willing to name Armitage; here is Novak (post-"Hubris") rebutting Armitage's version.

There are subtle shifts in the story - now we are told that "He mentioned her first name, Valerie", a detail not presented earlier.

And conspiracists and fantasists will love the news that "What Armitage told me [about the Sixteen Words] generally confirmed what I had learned from sources the previous day while I was reporting for the Fran Townsend column."  Ahh!  So Novak was sniffing around the uranium/Niger/Wilson story before he talked to Armitage!  Well, let me aid the conspiracists for a moment.  From Novak:

When I went to my office Monday, July 7, 2003, Joe Wilson was not in the forefront of my mind. Frances Fragos Townsend was. She had just been named deputy national security adviser at the White House though her background was in liberal Democratic politics, including Attorney General Janet Reno's inner circle during the Clinton administration. Her appointment was a political mystery of the kind I had been exploring for forty years in my column.

OK, we have had that before - the prevailing version as told by Murray Waas has been that the Townsend column came out on July 10; Rove defended her to Novak at length on the 8th or 9th, and then Novak slipped in a question about Wilson's wife and Karl responded with "I heard that, too".

But now Novak tells us that the Townsend column was written on July 7.  Hmm - in that case, what did he and Karl find to talk about on July 8 or 9?  Or had Rove "heard that, too" in a chat with Novak on the 7th even before Novak met with Armitage?

My circle-squaring guess is this - Novak means that the Townsend column was mostly written on the 7th, not completed and filed - from glancing at it, it appears that all of Karl's homework in defense of Ms. Townsend earned him this sentence near the close:

Townsend did not return my telephone calls. The White House official representing her said National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice obtained endorsements of her by Ashcroft, FBI Director Robert Mueller and CIA Director George Tenet.

I will further wager that the White House had pretty convincing phone logs documenting a Novak-Rove chat on the 8th or 9th, and that Fitzgerald had testimony from Rove's underlings supporting the notion that a Townsend briefing book was prepared for Rove for a mid-week phone call.

But whatever - loose the hounds!

Novak also emphasizes this in his new excerpt:

Then, in the last week of June 2003, Armitage's office called to agree unexpectedly to my request and set up the appointment for July 8.

It is important to note that Armitage reached out to me before Joe Wilson went public on the New York Times op-ed page and on "Meet the Press" with an account of his Niger report...

Well then, let's also note that Armitage, Colin Powell's deputy, leaked to Bob Woodward prior to the Wilson op-ed; the Sixteen Word debacle was buzzing before the Wilson op-ed, and as the public face of the Administration who had made the WMD case against Saddam to the UN (without citing the uranium angle), Colin Powell almost surely felt that the claim that the Administration lied cut a bit close to home.  Was Armitage enlisted to salvage Powell's reputation?  Geez, if only Special Counsel Fitzgerald had wondered or cared.

Comments

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

As I posted in a prior thread, this by Clarence Page is spectacularly bad in a column devoted to debunking Scooter Libby myths:

...yes, Armitage did leak Plame's name to columnist Robert Novak, who was the first to report it to the public. But Armitage was not the first or the only leaker. Weeks before Novak reported Plame's name in his July 14, 2003, column, Libby revealed Plame's CIA job in meetings with then-New York Times reporter Judith Miller on June 23 and July 8.

Here's his e-mail address: [email protected]

[Carol Herman]

Okay. Armitage has a fancy office at State. And, he calls Novak IN. Something tells me this is where you'd start to smell "the" plot.

Why is Armitage GREEN-LIGHTED?

We live in a world, now, where conventional warfare no longer rules. It's all guerilla stuff. With the side that's most fanatical, having the "advantages."

In a different day and age? The Bonkeys would be concerned of their status as a minor party. BUT. NOT. HERE!

And, their assault against Dubya has been FRONTAL. Full and frontal. While Dubya doesn't play with the media types. Who are the troops that send these puff of smokes rising high.

I'm not sure what we're watching, now. Since no one on the left unseated Dubya in 2004. Nor has the left decided they intend to change their tactics.

Anyway, there's no surprises that Armitage "first leaked plame's name," because he wanted to see Cheney hang for it. Or Rove. Libby? Just chum.

While just like Nifong did; Fitz has used the press to gain the "judicial" advantage. Has he really gotten far?

Given how many years we've been at this thing; what's ahead? Dubya's not going anywhere until January 20, 2009. But in the interim? It's like watching Bonkey terrorists in Congress; flaying about. While the GOP leadership, there, STINKS.

I do know that Tom DeLay took a vacation from politics in 2006. He had been complaining, INSIDE, about Gingrich, and the other scum that so mis-shaped their 1994 majority opportunities. I guess? Playing politics as usual?

Meanwhile, like in any war, we get words at home that some troops have fallen. McCain doesn't want to admit it, yet. But he crapped out. (Meaning so, too, does the Feingold crowd of "searchers for the fairness doctrine.") My how communists give names to things. Fairness doctrine my ass, so to speak.

Novak doesn't really shed light, because he happens to hate Dubya. He's one of the biggest appeasers in DC. While he claims to work the hardest, of any reporter. And, then to prove it? He talks about the time he fell down in a hotel room. Broke his hip. Crawled to the phone. But made sure after he got "fixed up at the hospital" he was back to doing his typical reporting. I guess he'd have had to fall on his head to get to a better result?

While this charade continues.

Of course, Dubya just stole the thunder.

Where does that leave the players, then?

While maggots fall on the heads of those who work at the New Yuk Times. (I learned this over at Captain's Quarters.) Seems their architects weren't any better than their journalists. New building meeting code crapola, and all.

Sometimes, ya just have to sit back. And, laugh. Frontal assaults are a waste of time, if you're being chewed to pieces on your flanks. Or up your rear. (The purpose of tanks is to do that, ya know?)

[kim]

Pardon everyone Fitzgerald has leaned on after the Appellate Court delegitimizes him.
=================

[cathyf]

To repeat what I posted on the other thread...

Novak distinctly remembers that he is the one who brought up the question "why Joe Wilson?" and Armitage told him about Valerie as the answer. Which does tend to indicate that while State's pushback on Wilson, centered around the theme of he's a boob who was sent by his wife and her buddies at the CIA, was discussed and formed, it wasn't exactly the highest priority that they had. Sure it was a smear, but it doesn't look like it rises to the level of smear campaign at the State Department, even though State did come closest.

I've maintained all along that State had a particular quandry. Wilson was accusing Powell of lying, but also he was describing himself as "former ambassador" -- i.e. a high State Dept official. And that put embassy staffs and former embassy staffpeople all over the world in danger by identifying them as being cozy with the CIA. Their quandry was that Wilson's lies could not be rebutted on their merits without disclosing classified information (the NIE, or something like it.)

Now the president and the vice president were in a different quandry. They could rebut Wilson on the facts because they had the power to declassify the facts. And they did -- they declassified the NIE. The complication is that Tenet was directly ordered to prepare a declassification of the appropriate sections of the NIE, coordinating with CIA case officers to make sure that nothing really sensitive got declassified. But he dragged his feet for the whole month (and when he did finally come up with the press conference on July 12 he double-crossed the government and retracted the 16 words.) So Cheney decided that they should declassify the NIE sections using Bush's authority, but also made the decision to do it behind Tenet's back. There are different schools of thought when it comes to dealing with insubordinate underlings, and doing the things that they are being insubordinate about behind their backs is certainly not an uncommon one.

So you had all these channels going on... WH and OVP want the CIA to rebut Wilson on merits, but the CIA doesn't want to and are insubordinate. The State Dept can't rebut Wilson on the merits because it requires declassifying things that they lack the authority to do, so they fight back by smearing Wilson as a low-level clown who was the beneficiary of nepotism. The CIA was observing the fruits of State's smears -- Harlow complained to Cathie Martin about reporters asking about Wilson's wife. I wonder if there were CIA people thinking that if the WH and OVP would just get on the State bandwagon with the bozo/nepotism angle then they wouldn't have to declassify anything, but the WH and OVP people were basically oblivious to the gossip.

[Gmax]

OT

Here is a fun parlor game. Guess how many votes Cyndi Sheehan would get in a primary election against Nancy Pelosi. Remember this is San Francisco, the land of fruits and nuts.
BTW the district reelected Nancy with 80% of the vote last time. Is that because they did not have anyone more radical lefty to suit them? Is Sheehan really any more radical left than Pelosi anyway?

[Gmax]

OT

Here is a fun parlor game. Guess how many votes Cyndi Sheehan would get in a primary election against Nancy Pelosi. Remember this is San Francisco, the land of fruits and nuts.
BTW the district reelected Nancy with 80% of the vote last time. Is that because they did not have anyone more radical lefty to suit them? Is Sheehan really any more radical left than Pelosi anyway?

[clarice]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/07/parsing_powell.html

Good scenario, cathy.

[boris]

Cathyf:

I wonder if there were CIA people thinking that if the WH and OVP would just get on the State bandwagon with the bozo/nepotism angle then they wouldn't have to declassify anything, but the WH and OVP people were basically oblivious to the gossip

It does seem that CIA was pushing "it was his wife" every time the subject came up. That really should not happen even if she was not classified (Harlow sure didn't act like she was). It seems more like a lame excuse for CIA sending the assclown Joe rather than a hint to avoid declassifying their own messed up intel, but both explanations work better than making OVP responsible for protecting the identity of covert CIA agents.

As you say OVP was oblivious to both. The Mandarinate at State and CIA might play their pagoda intrigues while the elected Mongols just try and conduct rational policy. OVP had no use for the wife detail. Their policy, challenged by Wilson, was based on the NIE and perhaps CIA did not want to take ownership for the role they played in forming that policy.

Clarice's link

[Carol Herman]

Small problem for cindy sheehan. Pelosi lives in a very rich district. To run? You've got to have your address there. And, cindy can't afford to pay those rents.

She's got a loud mouth that gets her media coverage.

But, so what?

We've been subjected to this tom foolery, now, going on at least seven years. Since Bush was the candidate in 2000.

And, every which way the elites have tried it; all they've lost is viewers and subscribers.

That doesn't mean there aren't districts where Cindy would lose. Heck, let her run in Durham, South Carolina. The bar, in the south, has been lowered by Cynthia McKinney.

Cindy's problem? She's not a good "district picker." But that she still gets heard? Me thinks there are Bonkeys, now, who aren't thrilled with either pelosi or hillary. Or Reid.

For $1000, Alex, I'll guess that the "old timers" in congress smell the Blue Dogs, and also some of the more rational GOP members, heating up to "take over."

But go ahead. Concentrate on Cindy's ditch.

I think Dubya still gets misunderestimated in the contests, ahead. Wonder if he's practicing arming himself with a veto pen?

Ah, funny line about this jijab stuff. A man complained that his rights are violated, because he can't run around in a Halloween mask, all of the time. Which shows ya that there's more ways than one to fight clowns.

[Carol Herman]

Cathy F, your post's terrific. But it overlooks the White House take on both Colin Powell and George Tenet. TWO BAD APPLES that Bush got rid of.

If we had a working press this whole story would have been debunked long ago.

But then, if we had a working press, Nifong's crapola would not have been tolerated, either.

So it seems there's a price to pay for how journalists have been trained. (And, yes, they've been trained to think that Woodward grew rich. And, Robert Redford played him in the movies.)

Oh, I think there will be stories ahead that will unravel to the truth.

[hoosierhoops]

Guess how many votes Cyndi Sheehan would get in a primary election against Nancy Pelosi. Remember this is San Francisco, the land of fruits and nuts.
BTW the district reelected Nancy with 80% of the vote last time.
-GMAX

My guess would be in the 10-15% range..I don't really see Cindy being a threat at all in SF. Pelosi has garnered alot of respect in the Bay Area over the years, And above all to say the bay area is full of fruits and nuts is demeaning to that area, yea there are some wack jobs around but generally the bay area and silicone valley have many great, wonderful, smart, caring people..( although I remember when BOOM BOOM the Nun ran for mayor..now THAT was funny )
Full Disclosure: The hoopster went to College there and still has a soft spot in his heart for California....:)

[Sue]

The thing that has always caught my attention is Novak never before having access to Armitage but all of the sudden Armitage calls up and says come on down.

[Gmax]

Was a no demeaning zone declared on JOM when I was absent or something? Nancy Pelosi could never get elected in my Suburban Dallas area district. She might get 30-35% tops.

Sheehan does not have to own property to be a resident. We eleiminated laws restricting voting to property owners very early in the republic. And nothing says you cant be even a full time house guest, i.e. non-rent paying , if you otherwise act like a resident. She certainly can rent, even an attic or basement of a house works. Maybe Code Pink will put up the deposit.

I think she might get more than 15% in that district. But Pelosi still beats her like a drum. It would be fun to see them call each other names, wouldn't it?

[Gmax]

Was a no demeaning zone declared on JOM when I was absent or something? Nancy Pelosi could never get elected in my Suburban Dallas area district. She might get 30-35% tops.

Sheehan does not have to own property to be a resident. We eleiminated laws restricting voting to property owners very early in the republic. And nothing says you cant be even a full time house guest, i.e. non-rent paying , if you otherwise act like a resident. She certainly can rent, even an attic or basement of a house works. Maybe Code Pink will put up the deposit.

I think she might get more than 15% in that district. But Pelosi still beats her like a drum. It would be fun to see them call each other names, wouldn't it?

[Ranger]

Guess how many votes Cyndi Sheehan would get in a primary election against Nancy Pelosi. Remember this is San Francisco, the land of fruits and nuts.
BTW the district reelected Nancy with 80% of the vote last time.
-GMAX

Actually, she did not say she was going to run as a democrat, she said she planned to run as an independant in the general election. That changes the dynamic significantly because one of the biggest hurdles that challengers have against incumbants is simple name recognition, and Cindy has that already. My bet is that she gets more than 30%, at least in pre-election polls.

[hoosierhoops]

Was a no demeaning zone declared on JOM when I was absent or something?
Nah GMAX.. I just have fond memories of the Bay Area..Everybody makes fun of the left Coast..
Cindy's brain would probably blow up if she really tried to run against a politician that was a Pro..Now that would be funny to watch a debate..
Hear that sucking sound? that's cindy's head imploding.. :)
Regards Gmax

Hey Tom M. I thought you were going to get rid of the computer robot checker..
After the Chocho afair..Comments from Bots would have been a welcome change..

[cathyf]

The thing that has always caught my attention is Novak never before having access to Armitage but all of the sudden Armitage calls up and says come on down.

The thing that struck me was that Plame seemed significantly less important to Armitage on July 7 than she had been on June 13. I suppose it's possible that this is a difference between Novak and Woodward -- Armitage and Woodward were doing a certain amount of the elderly white guy version of shuckin & jivin, and since Novak and Armitage just met maybe it was more straightforward. And it's certainly possible that the reason that Armitage didn't bring it up with Novak is that Novak asked first.

But, anyway, what I get from Novak's take is that the wife-sent-him thing was meant as a personal smear against Wilson, but it was not some big smear campaign -- more like Armitage hitting the State talking point when asked, but wouldn't have brought it up otherwise.

But I'm also noticing that this was basically the one and only private conversation that Novak and Armitage have ever had, and so Novak was not in the best position to know if he was being played by Armitage skillfully pretending that it was offhand gossip.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'Sure it was a smear...'

Why? It's a direct answer to Novak's direct question; why send HIM?

[hoosierhoops]

afair=affair
Go ahead Tom..rub it in, You went to Rutgers
and learned how to spell..

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Another pitch perfect column by Mark Steyn on Fitz's other persecution:

"A law that punished a citizen for an innocent action or, in other words, for an act, which, when done, was in violation of no existing law; a law that destroyed, or impaired the lawful private contracts of citizens; a law that makes a man a judge in his own cause; or a law that takes property from A and gives it to B: It is against all reason and justice for a people to entrust a legislature with such powers; and, therefore, it cannot be presumed that they have done it."

...The Hollinger meltdown has violated all of Justice Chase's [above] laundry list. The company's board certainly had the right to remove Conrad Black as CEO in November 2003, but everything since has been very disquieting, beginning with the Delaware court's willingness to "take property from A and give it to B". In effect, the state expropriated Conrad Black's "property" - his legal controlling interest in Hollinger International - and gave it to a gang of usurpers with no equity in the company. They do that in gangster states like Zimbabwe but at least they do it quicker and without the attendant legal bills.

This case has seen multiple examples of "men acting as judges in their own cause", most notably Jonathan Rosenberg, the 800-bucks-an-hour O'Melveny & Myers bigwig whose law firm has made a nine-figure sum since it got appointed to staterooms on the Hollinger gravy train four years ago. Rosenberg was presented as a quasi-expert witness, a disinterested investigator into events at International. In fact, he's representing the usurper regime in multiple civil suits involving the company, and he has a direct interest in Black & Co losing their criminal trial.

....This case also "destroys, or impairs the lawful private contracts of citizens". The transaction agreements that include the non-compete payments were freely entered into by both parties. Years later, the government comes along and says these lawful contracts' plain meaning can be overturned by spurious oral testimony. That's bad not just for business, but for civilized society in general.

And finally the government seeks to punish the defendants "for an act, which, when done, was in violation of no existing law".

[RalphL]

It sounds to me more like Armitage enjoying his knowledge of the inside skinny.

He's been around Washington for years. Odd that Novak had never interviewed him before, especially since they were of like minds on Iraq, and Powell is such a press greaser.

[cathyf]

I think that it was a smear in that Armitage "sexed up" the story to make it better gossip. Plame is certainly lying (under oath!) when she says that she had nothing to do with sending Joe, but the Armitage version where she was solely responsible for sending him was certainly an exaggeration. And Novak's question: "not an expert in nuclear proliferation and with no intelligence experience" assumed information which he had no way of knowing -- given Joe Wilson's resume "on paper" it's not inconsistent with someone who has both WMD proliferation and intelligence experience. And, it turns out, he did have some relevant intel experience, and relevant experience in Iraq -- the problem is that his own personal failures of character and intellect rendered him incapable of learning from his experiences.

But anyway, if the CIA, or other intelligence agency, has some covert operatives out there who have resumes that look similar to Joe Wilson's, then I would be totally unsurprised that they are doing good work. Novak is old enough to have met plenty of highly competent people who have no credentials past on-the-job experience. Lots of CIA agents' spouses are also agents (Plame's first husband was) and agents are even more likely to have public resumes that understate their competence.

No, Joe Wilson's failings are of intelligence, character, judgement -- not simply a lack of credentials. Armitage couldn't tell this to Novak without getting personal.

[RalphL]

Didn't Armitage "realize" he was the leaker in the fall of 03, and then go to Powell and the DoS counsel about it, and they notified someone in DoJ? Wasn't this before Fitz was made special? Who told them to keep quiet then?

[cathyf]

Wasn't this before Fitz was made special? Who told them to keep quiet then?

Do we know? Eckenrode was leading the campaign to get Ashcroft to recuse himself, and the investigation was already somewhat unmoored from the usual FBI/DoJ process. Does anyone know if it was Eckenrode who told Powell and Armitage to be insubordinate to the president, or someone higher up the food chain?

[clarice]

More on Powell:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/04/colinoscopy_examining_colin_po.html>Colinoscopy

[Sara]

The thing that struck me was that Plame seemed significantly less important to Armitage on July 7 than she had been on June 13. I suppose it's possible that this is a difference between Novak and Woodward -- Armitage and Woodward were doing a certain amount of the elderly white guy version of shuckin & jivin, and since Novak and Armitage just met maybe it was more straightforward. And it's certainly possible that the reason that Armitage didn't bring it up with Novak is that Novak asked first.

I didn't get that from Novak's remarks, in fact, just the opposite:

“Well,” Armitage replied, “you know his wife works at CIA, and she suggested that he be sent to Niger.” “His wife works at CIA?” I asked. “Yeah, in counterproliferation.”

He mentioned her first name, Valerie. Armitage smiled and said: “That’s real Evans and Novak, isn’t it?” I believe he meant that was the kind of inside information that my late partner, Rowland Evans, and I had featured in our column for so long. I interpreted that as meaning Armitage expected to see the item published in my column.

[clarice]

We don't know that anyone except Fitz asked them to keep it quiet, though I suspect they wanted to protect themselves by keeping quiet about it and were happy to comply with Fitz' request months later.

[SlimGuy]

I don't know exactly where or how, but I'll be Grossman, the old buddy of Joe, had a finger in this pie somehow someway.

[cathyf]

Armitage has always claimed piously that he was insubordinate to the president because "investigators" asked him to stay silent. If no one before Fitzgerald asked him to stay silent, then he was just plain old insubordinate on his own initiative for at least three months.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'And Novak's question: "not an expert in nuclear proliferation and with no intelligence experience" assumed information which he had no way of knowing -- given Joe Wilson's resume "on paper" it's not inconsistent with someone who has both WMD proliferation and intelligence experience.'

Novak already knew some about Joe. He'd written about him during the standoff in Iraq in 1990.

He'd just witnesses him in all his obnoxious glory in the Green Room at NBC, and Novak would have plenty of State Dept sources who could have filled in any blanks about Joe's decidedly unspectacular career. It would only have taken a few phone calls. Novak's description of Wilson is pretty accurate.

[Rick Ballard]

I would be very surprised if there were not a standard FBI "This is an ongoing investigation and we would prefer that you did not talk about this questioning." security blanket issued at the end of every interview.

Powell and Armitage undoubtedly took turns tucking each other in under it.

[Sara]

I am convinced this was an orchestrated plan. Powell is pissed because he thinks he was made a fool out of at the UN and probably unleased Armitage, the Kerry campaign working another track unleashes Wilson, the OVP is working the NIE track that is colliding with both the Armitage and Wilson tracks and CIA is playing CYA.

[anduril]

Eckenrode was leading the campaign to get Ashcroft to recuse himself, and the investigation was already somewhat unmoored from the usual FBI/DoJ process. Does anyone know if it was Eckenrode who told Powell and Armitage to be insubordinate to the president, or someone higher up the food chain?

Posted by: cathyf | July 09, 2007 at 04:19 PM

cathyf, I wouldn't go down that path. I seriously doubt that E had any pull whatsoever in WDC. The only influence he would have would come by way of DoJ, and no one at DoJ would give a rip about his opinions on anything that wasn't strictly related to the facts of the investigation. Really.

[anduril]

Likewise, Rick. But insiders would know exactly how non-binding that was.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Chris Matthews managed to surpass even my expectations for his weaseliness. Not only did he not publish my post that quoted his exchange with Rockefeller and Gergen of July 8, 2003. He hasn't published EVEN ONE post that isn't rabidly anti/Bush-Libby.

[Rick Ballard]

Anduril,

Sure - insiders including the press. That didn't stop them from repeating the piety in order to cover Brave Sir Dick.

After all, technically it's the truth. The very, very best kind of lie.

[Neo]

Great quote:

And we will not reverse a determination for clear error unless it “strike[s] us as wrong with the force of a 5-week-old, unrefrigerated dead fish.”

[clarice]

Yes, cathyf--Powell and Armitage were just being purely perfidious.

[Lesley]

Patrick

Judging by the comments over at Hardblog, you'd be an unwelcome skunk at that party.

Sample:

"It is treason to divulge the name of an undercover agent. What is so difficult to understand about that? Why has no one been charged?"

Kathy Skerl, Asheville, NC (Sent Monday, July 09, 2007 11:07 AM)

[cathyf]

I seriously doubt that E had any pull whatsoever in WDC.

Excellent point. The version where Eckenrode single-handedly convinced Ashcroft to recuse himself is the Murray Waas story. Where the source was either Eckenrode or his mother...

[Elliott]

The updates to Emptywheel's post on Fitzgerald's supervised release filing indicate that the White House counsel and the defense also have submitted that supervised release should remain as part of Libby's sentence.

Other Tom, any chance of some pro bono gloating on my behalf?

[clarice]

BREAKING--Joe Wilson will be testifying Wednesday. http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/index.cfm/category/Badbehavior>Muchausen on parade

Pretend there is a sentient member of the Committee and you are he/she..what would you like to ask him?

[Syl]

Small problem for cindy sheehan. Pelosi lives in a very rich district. To run? You've got to have your address there. And, cindy can't afford to pay those rents.

Actually CNN reported that in California there's no residency requirement for running as a Rep. cindy lives in Sacramento and that's in California so no sweat.

[Rick Ballard]

Anduril,

Who was theoretically supervising Eckenrode from Sept 30 to Dec 31?

[MikeS]

I am convinced this was an orchestrated plan

 

Sara I think there were at least two orchestrated plans. The original plan to ‘debunk’ the “crazy idea” that Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Niger is evident. When Wilson was offered the mission he must have wondered how he could use it to his own political advantage. If he signed a non-disclosure agreement he couldn’t talk about it, so that was out. No doubt there is some kind of regulation that says basically “If you get paid, you sign the non-disclosure agreement” for this reason Wilson accepted no pay.

Later, Wilson was out knocking on doors, trying to get credit for solving the big mystery. The “White House ignored intelligence” angle began to catch on, and so Joe wrote his own piece. Someone must have told him something like “Joe, you should be more discreet. Stop bragging about your contacts at the CIA. Your lack of discretion discredits you.” About then the Novak article hit the papers. Novak had used the term “operative” to describe Wilson’s wife. I think the second plan was made up then, maybe with the help of David Corn, and it just snowballed from there.

[Sue]

Pretend there is a sentient member of the Committee and you are he/she..what would you like to ask him?

Who does your hair?

[Rick Ballard]

Did Val bring home the originals of the forged documents or did she copy them at Kinkos during lunch so she could get them back in the "safe"?

[hit and run]

Pretend there is a sentient member of the Committee and you are he/she..what would you like to ask him?

Mr. Plame, it would appear that both you and ... what's that? Oh, Mr. Wilson. Sorry, it's just that you seem so...oh never mind, where was I? Ah yes, both you and Sandy Berger served on the Kerry campaign at the same time. Are you familiar with his legal situation, sir?

[Rick Ballard]

Was Kristof easier to gull than Pincus?

Is John Kerry as stupid in person as he seems in public? How about Chuck Schumer - do people really put on rubber gloves before shaking his hand?

[Sue]

I don't think it was an orchestrated plan. I think it was a plan of opportunity. Wilson waited too long to say anything. In other words, he waited to see which way the WMDs story played out. Had we found something, he would have been on the side of "I told them". His "report" would have gone either way. When he saw the Bush administration wasn't going to use him, he peddled his story to the democrats. But only after questions started coming up about where were the WMDs. He never tried to stop a war. The invasion was over when he started blabbing. He tried to feather his own pockets. And in that regard, his plan worked.

[Ranger]

Was Kristof easier to gull than Pincus?

Of course Kristof was easier to gull. Pincus has long standing (three decades) contacts with the CIA and he knew Wilson's story sounded odd on its face.

[Carol Herman]

GMAX, are you suggesting that Cindy Sheehan would win the republican nomination in pelosi's district? No matter how generous her "hosts" would be, to letting her live "rent free," it ain't gonna happen.

Cindy thinks she's primary material for the Bonkeys? That's also pretty weird. I guess she could run as a communist? Or a green? But they don't beat anyone like a drum.

And, pelosi's already been quoted (I think I heard the quote on Drudge), that she's in charge. And, she doesn't like the orders she's getting from Cindy. And, she has no intention of listening to her.

So this won't even be news in two weeks. Which was the size of the ransom note from mother moonbat.

What we did learn? How quick she was to try and become a media "figa" again. Having probably the shortest retirement in hollywood history. Or again, like Drudge said. Barbra Streisand waits a year. Each time. Between her "last, last, last appearance."

[clarice]

nbc suffers again for shilling for the loony left--It gave hours of airtime to Gore's Jive and according to the Hollywood Reporter lost viewers (not that there seems to be anyone except rightward bloggers who watch NBC or its little sister ManiacNBC

"HollywoodReporter, by Paul J. Gough
NEW YORK -- NBC's three-hour primetime "Live Earth" special, which included highlights from Saturday's global concerts, failed to generate much enthusiasm in the ratings.The estimated 2.7 million viewers was slightly under the 3 million viewers NBC has averaged on Saturday nights in the summer with repeats and the Stanley Cup hockey playoffs on what is already the least-popular night of television. "

[hit and run]

Mr. Chairman, I know this may seem unusual, but I only have one question in the form of a request of the witness.

Mr. Wilson, I would like to ask if you would autograph my copy of your book?

I purchased it on amazon.com for $0.63 and am thinking I may be able to double my investment were it a signed copy.

[Carol Herman]

Clarice, I just went to your American Thinker article "whitewashing Powell." (Who stood up at an Aspen speech, given by Karl Rove), where he spouts how Robert Novak got the word on Wilson's wife, during an interview; where Novak asked the question.)

Well, that begs at least two questions.

What about the earlier info-bungle with Woodward? You know. Where Woodward's tape was played to Libby's jurors. And, you hear the door close shut. ANd, Armitage cursing.

Seems to me, the way gossip works, Andrea Mitchell wasn't lying about what was going around. And, was common knowledge.

Again, what's missing?

Well, when Nixon was taken down no one knew Mark Felt was Woodward's source. And, even fewer knew both men are homosexual. So that a strange encounter, at the White House; when Woodward was very young. 27. And, handsome in his uniform; picked up Mark Felt. And, among the things they shared was Felt's phone number. The rest is history.

That the media would try to pull this stunt, again? Why not.

That the second time around things aren't as successful? Where, here, I'm familiar with the old adage. First time 'tragedy.' Second time, farce.

This time, too, no journalist is gonna become a millionnaire writing a book. Robert Novak doesn't have to change his spending habits.

Hit and Run: Are you putting that up on eBay? You may lose money.

Anyway, the elites live on what they know and gossip about. While I think the "war" between State and the CIA, is on par with the war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Lots of it doesn't compute, when you notice the goals. And, how they are now doing business, together.

Why was Dubya such a target?

And, why didn't the Bonkeys learn anything?

[hoosierhoops]

hoorah!
Hit & Run returns to the scene of the crime...
Did you enjoy your vacation?

[hit and run]

Yes, vacation was awesome. Absolutely awesome. Relaxing, fun, all the cousins running around like crazy people. The beautiful scenery, etc.

Except for a last minute change of travel plans on the return home (boohoo!), everything went "swimmingly".

It was hotter than I would have liked, but we just kept the beer colder.

Oh and by the way, it seems Cheney was in Jackson Hole. I actually got to say "hi".

[VIMH: You're saying you met the Vice President?]
No. I only said "hi" to Air Force 2.

[Sara]

Later, Wilson was out knocking on doors, trying to get credit for solving the big mystery. The “White House ignored intelligence” angle began to catch on, and so Joe wrote his own piece. Someone must have told him something like “Joe, you should be more discreet. Stop bragging about your contacts at the CIA. Your lack of discretion discredits you.” About then the Novak article hit the papers. Novak had used the term “operative” to describe Wilson’s wife. I think the second plan was made up then, maybe with the help of David Corn, and it just snowballed from there.

The problem with this is Novak's statement that Armitage "reached out" to him before Wilson wrote his op-ed piece and it appears was very interested in making sure the info about Val showed up in Novak's column. And in the Woodward tape of Armitage which predates this "reaching out" to Novak, Armitage says something about Joe talking to anyone who would listen. State, thru Armitage, was very interested in assuring that the info about Val sending her husband got out to the public. Who Armitage was getting his marching orders from is open to speculation, but I would bet that whatever plan was in the works, Grossman was dutifully reporting it to his buddy Joe and the counterplans were developed from there.

[Other Tom]

Brother, when you're drawing less than the hockey games you're drawing flies.

[RalphL]

Well that's a new one, Carol. Did you hear that from Andrea?

[Other Tom]

Some guy in the Calgary Sun rips Al a new one:

"Other than trivial and useless acts of self-denial, the only concrete step that Live Earth sells are 'offsets', a sort of economic atonement for living a high-energy lifestyle.

"You can burn fuel -- lots of it, even -- if you pay some money.

"The fact that Gore is the chairman of the leading offset company isn't usually mentioned in his fawning media coverage.

"Offsets are about pretending to care. What a perfect symbol for Live Earth.

"While the stars flew in on private jets, while the stages were brimming with power-hungry lights and screens, while the lifestyles of the Gores and Hewsons of the world could sustain entire villages, here's what Live Earth's viewers were told, on the official website, in the section about how to get to Wembley Stadium.

"'Why not put your best foot forward and walk or cycle?' scolded the site.

"'Or you could take public transport and catch a coach, train, the tube or a local bus. If you absolutely have to drive, be an eco-driver and use a fuel-efficient car and travel with friends.'

"Do you think that U2's Hewson or Al Gore took the subway to the show? Do you think they ever travel on public transit, except during photo ops?

"If you do, I've got a carbon offset to sell you."

(Hewson is the actual name of the fraud Bono.)

[BobS]

Okay, everybody else is weighing in on timelines and theories. Here's mine.

1. The whole idea was framed by Joe and Val with Val being part of the rogue element at CIA who sought to discredit the Bush Admin. Joe would go and start telling everyone who would listen that Bush lied about the 16 words. Val was able to assure that-like anyone else-Joe was not required to sign a confidentiality agreement. Remember, its already documented she lied about this.

2. When he returned and was blabbing his mouth off to reporters about his meeting in Niger and was publishing his infamous oped in the NYTimes, it was natural the Admin would start asking who the hell is Joe Wilson and how did he get sent.

3.So when reporters-like Novak-asked someone like Armitage, he told him about the circumstances-all true-of Wilson's mission. Naturally more and more folks did this in the administration when asked. As Wilson was lying about his trip, it was natural and understandable the Admin would seek to discredit him. They actually never really did until far later.

4. It is at this time that Joe and Val hatched the scheme to go the outed CIA agent route. It had not been the plan at the beginning but they saw the opportunity and went forward with it. The Democrats-always eager to score political hits on Bush-took the Wilson storyline and off they went.

5. It gets legs as Wilson becomes a media star.

In conclusion, I really don't think there was any Republican infighting that involved Armitage, Powell, Ashcroft or Cheney. Thats an MSM myth. This was all began with a propoganda ploy by the rogue part of CIA that evolved into a false outed agent claim. The Wilson's were able to snare willing accomplises in the media, among Senate Dems and Chuck Schummer's friends at DOJ along the way.

Colin Powell's comments yesterday in a public forum in Karl's Rove's presence take the Bush Admin infighting theory down a notch and signal more push back.

[kaz]

My pet theory is similar to Clarice's. Joe was busy trying to create some sort of buzz he could cash in on and when he [and his important hair] were disregarded by the powers that be he approached the Kerry camp, got some encouragement, and was soon talking to every reporter that would stand still for five minutes.

Given the incestuous nature of DC politics and reporting, I'd wager that when his name started showing up on the radar several reporters on the DoS/intel beat told collegues, "Yeah, I know who you're talking about. His wife is a minor player at the CIA."

I truly suspect that half of the DC reporters knew all about Joe's wife before Novak ever got the first word out of Armitage.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

It wasn't a vacation in upstate NY was it, H&R?

Anyway, Joe Wilson is really, really, really asking for it. If there's a Republican in a safe seat there to question him, it's merely a matter of asking Kit Bond what he'd like to know, and asking him those questions.

I'd sure like to know exactly how those meetings with Nick Kristoff played out. I'd also like to know if Kristoff's column of June 13, 2003 responding to Pincus's challenge about Cheney's role in his trip relied on Joe and/or Val's assurances.

And how Joe reconciles these two statements:

[from his letter to the SSCI:]'I never claimed to have “debunked” the allegation that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa.'

and, from his Times Op-ed:

'I reminded a friend at the State Department of my trip and suggested that if the president had been referring to Niger, then his conclusion was not borne out by the facts...'

[maryerose]

Patrick R. Sullivan:
You are so right about Joe Wilson. I hope someone really nails him in the Q&A. He is a scumbag and I think by both he and Val testifying in these hearings their civil suit is going to suffer. By going public and trying to push lies and inconsistent statements all they do is marginalize themselves.

[hoosierhoops]

Patrick: From your link:
....In June, a woman in her 40s stripped off her halter top, slid her panties to her ankles and then yanked up her skirt in front of a crowd of wine-tasters on a nearby observation deck at
Red Newt Cellars in Hector, N.Y., near Watkins Glen.
_______________________________________
Well The spectors were horrified..Damn Wine snobs..
I'm not saying we encourage that behavior at the Indy 500..I'm not saying we don't..
_____________________________________
I know, i know, that last statement was not politically correct..
I would be horrified and insulted..
Better?
Glad you had a great vacation Hit&Run...

[hit and run]

Patrick:
Anyway, Joe Wilson is really, really, really asking for it. If there's a Republican in a safe seat there to question him, it's merely a matter of asking Kit Bond what he'd like to know, and asking him those questions.

My rep is on the judiciary committee in a very safe seat. Hmmmm.....

Oh, and it wasn't upstate NY. And I'm not a wine guy.

But I think I may have helped reduce my carbon footprint. Does recycling about 25 cases worth of beer bottles make a difference?

[Carol Herman]

When Novak was first PHOTOGRAPHED for an article about his "Joe Wilson's Wife" column, didn't he say HE FOUND IT IN WHO'S WHO?

Wasn't he standing by the bookcase in his own office? Didn't Novak point to WHO'S WHO as his source?

I guess NOW he's saying he was called. And, went to Armitage's fancy office at State.

So, why did he need WHO'S WHO?

[hoosierhoops]

well folks why doesn't the DOJ and FBI ask Mr. Wilson about his trip overseas?
Cause if he tells a lie, ole fitz can go on the wild goose chase again and prosecute or persecute if you will, and get him convicted and sentenced to 30 months in Danberry..

[Ann]

Hit and Run

Welcome Home. Celebrating Libby's freedom was not the same without you. However, you fortunately missed chichi!

Clarice

Chrissy let it slip last week that Wilson would be testifying. At the time I wondered if it was true... Interesting he already knew.

[BobS]

I truly suspect that half of the DC reporters knew all about Joe's wife before Novak ever got the first word out of Armitage.

*Kaz statement above*

Agreed. Andrea Mitchell said as much until NBC somehow became complicite (sp) in the case and Reggie would not allow her to testify. (Grounds enough for reversal anyway)

I believe this was where Val and Joe-now realizing they can becoke wealthy dem hacks-began the outed agent angle. When any admisnistration official is mentioning her name there is no way in hell they can even think she might be a covert agent as EVERYBODY knows her name.

[perc]

Well, this would be comical if it weren't so pathetic:

from today's Globe and Mail:

"Did 'Scooter' Libby resort to blackmail to avoid jail?"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070709.LIBBY09/TPStory/Front

I guess Matt Cooper's question marks are catching on. (I haven't read the Globe in years; it's nice to be reminded why, occasionally).

[hit and run]

Thanks Ann. It's good to be back. I was in and out during vacation -- and got to experience some of the tragi-comedy of chch.

And since the topic is breached, thank you TM. For his disappearance.

[Sara]

Carol, Novak says that when he asked Armitage why Wilson was chosen for the trip, a reasonable question to ask State since Joe was an Ambassador, Armitage tells him his wife was responsible for picking him and her name is Valerie. Novak said he came back to the office and looked up Joe Wilson's Who's Who entry and discovered that it included the information that he married Valerie Elise Plame on April 3, 1998.

[PeterUK]

"The “White House ignored intelligence” angle began to catch on, and so Joe wrote his own piece. Someone must have told him something like “Joe, you should be more discreet."

I think the point at which Joe Wilson's op-ed was given the go ahead can be pin pointed as the time the attack on the WH began in earnest.
There are thousands of ambitious journalists who would be willing to give up their first born,yea even share their beer to get an op=ed in a major newspaper.This aspect has not been examined,who gave the go ahead for the article from which all else flows? Who put the fix in to get an obscure ex diplomat the plum job of the business?

[PeterUK]

"The “White House ignored intelligence” angle began to catch on, and so Joe wrote his own piece. Someone must have told him something like “Joe, you should be more discreet."

I think the point at which Joe Wilson's op-ed was given the go ahead can be pin pointed as the time the attack on the WH began in earnest.
There are thousands of ambitious journalists who would be willing to give up their first born,yea even share their beer to get an op=ed in a major newspaper.This aspect has not been examined,who gave the go ahead for the article from which all else flows? Who put the fix in to get an obscure ex diplomat the plum job of the business?

[Carol Herman]

Sara,

You know what smells about Novak's book?

He said, originally, he got the tip when he bumped into someone on the street; outside his office. He then claimed the "person was not a partisan gun slinger."

Then, to prove a point, he claimed Val's name was known in WHO'S WHO. And, Novak said that was the extent of his "investigative reporting."

Meanwhile? It seems there's a plot to hurt the presidency. Started at the press level AGAIN. As if our votes are meaningless. And, the press can turn against anyone elected to office.

Seems to me that's the real story. And, Novak chose not to tell it. Did he really think Fitzpatrick had more powers than the President got, through the Constitution?

Any one of these dip shits could have told the truth a lot earlier, but didn't.

As to Woodward, who became a millionaire, shilling for the FBI's guy; whom he knew to be angry at Nixon. Because Nixon didn't give the homosexual, Mark Felt, the homosexual Edgar Hoover's office and chair.

Well, at least we have the Internet.

And, we also know that Mark Felt was driven into his dimentia, furious that Woodward got rich, but he did not. He thought he was "owed something."

Our Federal System is only as good as the folks who serve. And, we've been ill served by the CIA. By State. By the Pentagon. And, by the FBI. Throw into this mix, now, an unfair advantage held by the Bonkeys; who live by their investigations. Making "going to DC" a very expensive decision; if you choose to work for a republican president.

Is this any way to run our country? NO!

But Novak? The first I heard he got the call to visit Armitage. This wasn't a mysterious "bumping into a non-partisan gun slinger," if you ask me.

And, in time? People will ask.

They might even ask how Dubya's dad was running the CIA for awhile, and it still turned out to be this awful monster.

If you add that Aschcroft was angry because on 9/12/2001 Bush held him responsible for the FBI's failures; what can I say? Why did Bush stop at just a reprimand around the Round Cabinet Table?

Of course, what we still don't know is how deep the Bush Family apparatus IS. (The way we know about Arkancide). But Comey? He's Schumer's toy? What doesn't compute in this picture?

As to Joe Wilson's ambassadorship in Irak; wasn't it a running joke? If Saddam had a broken toilet, he'd call Joe? That's the extent of service Wilson provided, ya know.

How come we know the jokes, but the press wasn't galvanized to cover it?

How come Libby became the fall guy? Fitz' revenge. Is that the answer?

Libby's not the first one to realize working for Cheney had its problems. Paul O'Neill's book THE PRICE OF LOYALTY covers it all. Dubya thought of himself as the pope who needed his ring kissed. (And, that ain't loyalty!) Figures.

[Ann]

I don't agree with Andy McCarthy on PLAME but
he hits the bullseye on this:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/

Re: The Salazar Language (aka "Beam Me Up Scotty!") [Andy McCarthy]

[Carol Herman]

For the most part, predictions are a fool's game.

But, yesterday, Drudge ran a headline that IMUS wants to come back. And, will do so "in six months." To be there for the primaries, when the presidential race heats up.

Whose to say IMUS would be shy about commenting further on Andrea Mitchell? He called her a liar, on the air. To which she responded, "no. She was just drunk."

Can Alan Greenspan's "invisible hand" keep IMUS off the airwaves?

Way back in 1968, LBJ's minions threatened the Hungry i's club owner with an IRS audit, if they dared let Mort Sahl get another engagement. And, so, except for college campuses, Mort Sahl's comedy disappeared.

I hope IMUS comes out of hiding.

[Sara]

Carol, I think you are confused. The man on the street thing with Novak came after he had interviewed Armitage as I recall. The interview was set up before the 6th, date of Joe's Op-ed, the man on the street was on or about the 8th of July.

[Sara]

I blogged about Imus last week and as I recall that article said that CBS radio is already running Imus reruns in his timeslot in preparation for his comeback. Imus Coming Back?

[Other Tom]

I'm long past hoping that any Republican committee member, on any committee, will do anything other than impersonate a potted plant. I don't know how these guys came to this conclusion, but they seem to think that exposing the opposition as utter frauds is a mistake of some kind.

We are in for a period of Democratic ascendancy. The good news is, it will be brief. Very brief.

[Ann]

Carol Herman

I always thought IMUS was fired for his "Hillary is Satan" language and his questioning of Andrea Mitchell.

He would not bend over for the NBC lawyers or Abrams.

Embarrassingly, I have just admitted in my last couple of posts that I have been known to watch NBC occasionally.

[Ann]

Other Tom

Hillary for four years is not brief. That is a lifetime in Hell for me!

[Sue]

Okay. Seriously off topic, but I have to vent. There is a commercial on tv that drives me nuts. It has various people asking what oil companies are doing to find alternative fuels. Tell my why an oil company should be looking for alternative fuels? Aren't they an oil company? That would be like asking Boeing what they are doing to find alternatives to airplanes. Or Ford what they are doing to find alternatives to automobiles. Or Ma Bell looking for alternatives for the telephone.

[RichatUF]

cathyf-

Your 4:52 comment-

then he was just plain old insubordinate on his own initiative for at least three months

IIRC he told Powell and Taft on Oct 1 2003 and "felt terrible about it". Taft called the WH [Gonzales] and said State knew who the leaker was and if he [Taft] needed to tell them who it was. Gonzales said the investigation was on going and that he didn't need any more information. Armitage had a team of insubordination around him.

Also a point on Powell: Sun Tzu

graf-

too much concern about honour, which will make one too sensitive to slanders

RichatUF

[hoosierhoops]

Sue:
Intel is looking for a replacement for chips
The lumber industry is looking for alternatives for wood
Goodyear hates rubber ( polymer )
If only Natural gas companies could find unnatural gas.
if Boeing aircraft could make carpets fly..
I get ya sister...Madison ave. at thier best..

[Other Tom]

I'm with you on that one, Sue. Every time I have seen that thing, I think "what in God's name are these people thinking?"

On a happier topic, here is more on the Live Earth catastrophe. Is there something wrong with me? Do I take too much delight in seeing this thing flop? (Hell--a resounding yes on both counts. Dog bites man.)

"'If you wanna save the planet, jump up and down!' urged Madonna. Can global warming be stopped by an out-of-breath, middle-aged, super-rich narcissist in a leotard and high heels?

"The superannuated pop queen was certainly up for the challenge, but judging by the negligible response to the text message number displayed on stage, I suspect the public may have been justifiably confused by the link between aerobics and the environment.

"As global satellite multi-media musical entertainment, Live Earth was just about adequate. As a platform for stadium politics, it was a dismal affair. 'Can you help save the earth?' bellowed Radio 1 DJ Chris Moyles. Cue muted murmur of support.

"'We might be screwed if that's the response,' he half-joked.

"We know what to expect by now: bands play three songs each; celebrities make speeches; short films illustrate the cause. The portmanteau aspect tends to drain momentum, and with no Bob Geldof figure to drive the event along, Live Earth lacked urgency, emotion or sense of internal narrative. Instead we had Geri Haliwell, chattily complaining about 'this freaky weather'.

"The whole tone felt misjudged: Al Gore appeared by satellite, to no great reaction in the stadium, and seemed to be addressing a small audience of native Americans, not seizing the world by the reins.

"The message itself was confused: Keane performed in front of the legend 'Insulate your ceilings and walls'. Razorlight performed America to footage of penguins.

"Duran Duran stuck to supermodels, but somehow tried to turn Girls on Film into an ecological anthem. Simon Le Bon urged the crowd to sing 'Change, change, we gotta start the change' without much success, perhaps because he was having trouble singing it particularly well himself."

God, this is wonderful! "Insulate your ceilings and walls!" is the new battle cry echoing amongst the Moonbats. What a priceless cartoon.

[RichatUF]

Sue-

Tell my why an oil company should be looking for alternative fuels? Aren't they an oil company?

Thats easy-to keep the eco freaks at bay...and money helps

[clarice]

I've been distracted by a rambunctious new kitten. I wrote a long post on what I'd ask Wilson and it seems to have vanished.

[Sue]

If I hear one more time "I want to know what big oil companies are doing to find alternative fuels" I'm going to throw something at the television. Morons. Shouldn't an alternative fuel company be looking for the alternative fuel? At let oil companies look for oil? I mean, it makes as much sense as the doctor explaining to the man how to operate on himself.

I'm through. I don't really feel better, but I certainly don't feel worse. ::grin::

[RichatUF]

BobS-

I really don't think there was any Republican infighting that involved Armitage, Powell, Ashcroft or Cheney. Thats an MSM myth

I think cathyf above [or on another thread] mentioned the cross currents of OVP, WH, State, and CIA. The infighting might not have been visible at the top but the bureaucracies were all in there with shapened knives. Also, Powell was disgraceful-everything from allowing himself to get sandbagged by the French to his sandbagging the DOD wrt Turkey. No one wanted the Wilson stink bomb to drop on there lap and it gave Powell the opportunity he needed to "get his honor back" and "atone" for his UN presentation.

In the end everyone say the Wilson gambit as an opportunity and they all started working at cross-purposes to one another. If State had been more quiet, no telling how high up the food chain this thing would have gone.

RichatUF

[anduril]

Who was theoretically supervising Eckenrode from Sept 30 to Dec 31?

Posted by: Rick Ballard | July 09, 2007 at 06:38 PM

Rick, that's an interesting question. The point about Mason being cut out of the loop was simply a matter of restricting knowledge to people with a plausible need to know, tightening security--makes perfect sense from my standpoint. That doesn't mean that Mason was ever actively supervising E; Mason may have been somewhat in the loop as a courtesy because the investigation was on his turf, but he was probably not actively involved, otherwise they would have kept him in the loop. That means that cutting him out didn't really change the chain of command for the investigation--that chain probably remained the same. What did that chain look like?

First of all, if the Washington office was cut out of it, that would have to mean that it was being run out of FBI headquarters--no other place, after all. I would speculate that the chain of command would include several elements.

With an investigation of this magnitude you have to expect that Mueller was getting briefed on any and every development--that's a given. We haven't heard that E was somehow made the "functional equivalent of the FBI Director," so he must have been getting supervision. On the one hand, you have to bear in mind that this was an investigation that was actively looking for a criminal violation that could be prosecuted, as we know from the referral. Somebody from the FBI's criminal side would almost certainly be involved, perhaps to give advice on techniques most commonly used in criminal investigations, perhaps to lend expertise on preparing strategy.

On the other hand, the alleged violations that were (supposedly) being looked at (IIPA and Espionage Act) are violations that the FBI's National Security people ordinarily handle. If you look back at what we know about E, his total area of expertise was in white collar type crime, especially health care fraud. E would definitely need help from the National Security people to explain the significance of some of the things he was hearing about: NIE's, etc. Even though the supposed offense was simply talking to reporters, the subject matter was totally involved with national security policy. Therefore, E would need to coordinate with the national security people to make sure they weren't working at cross purposes, for various reasons and possibilities--perhaps there would have been other investigations looking at people who came up in Plamegate, etc.

Therefore, my guess is that there would have been a relatively high up circle that was involved, and that they would, perhaps at E's request, enlist others to provide support as needed. E would also be reporting to that very small circle near Mueller. Best guess, based on the above reasoning. How hands on the supervision was is anyone's guess, but my guess is that it was probably pretty relaxed, given that the investigation was really being run by Fitz (and DoJ prior to him)--I would not imagine that any step worth mentioning was taken without his say so.

The FBI would have been relying on E's briefings, and it would have taken one helluva red flag, IMO, for Mueller to have said "boo." Consider--who was Mueller supposed to go to? What might have been the political fallout? Imagine this headline: FBI'S Mueller Sides with White House Against Fitzgerald! You know that's how any interference by Mueller would have been treated in the MSM. I'd bet that Mueller's philosophy was that of every bureaucrat: better safe than sorry; we treat Fitz's boys with kid gloves.

BTW, I was only agreeing with you about the potential for leaking and info sharing among people who were requested by the FBI not to talk.

[cathyf]

Reprinted from The Prince of Darkness: 50 Years Reporting in Washington, Copyright © 2007 by Robert D. Novak. Published by Crown Forum, a division of Random House Inc., available in bookstores Tuesday.

So does this mean that we find out tomorrow who the guy on the street was?

(Or maybe we find out tomorrow that Novak isn't going to tell us...)

[anduril]

I've been distracted by a rambunctious new kitten. I wrote a long post on what I'd ask Wilson and it seems to have vanished.

Posted by: clarice | July 09, 2007 at 10:24 PM

Some of my best posts, IMHO, have included input from my cats. I say that because people ask me: did your cat write that or did you? :-)

[hit and run]

Clarice:
I've been distracted by a rambunctious new kitten. I wrote a long post on what I'd ask Wilson and it seems to have vanished.

Clarice, if you want a 16 lb psychopathic anti-social disaster of a cat, it can be arranged.

But Wait! There's More!

With the acceptance of the cat, you will also receive, at no extra cost, a beautiful sofa and love seat and oversized chair. Each has been artfully scented with cat pee and poo for that extra-special touch.

Limited Time Offer! Hurry! Act Fast!

Offer expires Friday.

After which it's into the firepit*.

The furniture, not the cat.

Maybe.

[VIMH: Firepit? Sounds like you're contributing to global warming.]
Don't worry, mrs hit and run and kids are outta town, so I turn the air up a couple degrees. That should do the trick.

[cathyf]

No! No!!! I call first dibs to dump my 16 lb psychopathic anti-social disaster of a cat.

(Ok, he's not anti-social, he's very sweet and affectionate. Puts his cheek against yours and purrs. That's why he's still alive.)

[RichatUF]

anduril-

The Schumer/Kennedy Letter to John Dion, Chief, Counter-Espionage Section

I haven't followed this contour of the story closely, but I thought it was in the hands of the CE Division until Fitzgerald was named. I thought Fitz brought Eckenrode in. Eckenrode could have been feeding NBC tips about museum lootings as part of the Art Crime Team

Art Crime...isn't that a Simpson's episode

RichatUF

[Sue]

I hate cats.

[clarice]

This cat is beautiful, very social and extremely active and smart.
No, Hit, I'm afraid I can't handle two, but thanks for your generous offer.

I suspect Eckenrode was working with the FBI's "crack" CI group, a sadder lot this country has never seen. (See Gertz for details).