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July 11, 2007

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kim

Sistani has tamed the Shia death squads.
================

Ranger

Powerline had a write up on the issue of "increasing civilian deaths" a few days ago and used a site that tracks news reports of civilian deaths to show that the WaPo got it wrong, and in, in fact, civilian deaths are down all across the country since the surge started.

sylvia

I agree with Bush that we win as long as we have troops there, even if we just keep a small presence there. Things are bound to get better there, as things settle down on their own. It's human nature to work out some sort of arrangement (hopefully). So when that happens eventually, and we are still there - we win. If we leave, and things get worse there - we lose. And even if things get better there after we leave, we also lose because no one will give us credit for it. It's a lot of PR and perception, but perception is often reality, especially in the Middle East.

EH

Ranger: could that be the case if fewer Iraqis are considered to be civilians if they've had to take up arms in the civil war to protect themselves?

Other Tom

We lose the minute we quit. And make no mistake about it, we're going to quit--and lose. The nation as a whole is simply unable to stomach sustaining something fewer than 1,000 KIA per year for any length of time. That means the nation cannot win, which means in turn that it will lose.

In the decades to come there will be intense debates about who caused this loss. Certainly the "history" written by those who are writing today will be that George Bush caused the defeat by getting us into this war in the first place. My view is that the coming defeat is being announced, predicted, legislated (and in some quarters celebrated) by today's Democratic party. I have no idea which view, if either, will prevail fifty years from now.

But we are on the verge of a defeat that will be recognized as such, and hailed exuberantly, throughout the Muslim world. And we will pay for it for a long time to come.

Chuck Hagel, Goerge Voinovich, Olympia Snowe--shame on you. Shame.

Semanticleo

Is it necessary to break our troops so that
the 'Surge' can be called 'working'?

Shame on the 41 Senators who hate our troops.

SoldiersDad

icasualties.org had been tracking civilian deaths in Iraq for a long time. Iraqi "press reported" deaths are at their lowest since last summer.

Murder rates fluctuate seasonally everywhere in the world. Ask any police chief what his crime rates are during a full moon as opposed to a new moon.

NYC averaged 8 murders/day in the 1980's. Depending on who's figures one believes, Baghdad is averaging between 8 and 24 murders/day. The "Civil War" is over.

Cecil Turner

The political dynamic is one news cycle behind the military reality. But in this case, it's still very early days. The operational surge actually kicked off less than a month ago, and reports are necessarily spotty. And just as Harry Reid was wrong to claim defeat before the troops got in-country, it's premature to declare the surge a success. Some of the most professional coverage for folks wanting to follow the operation is here:

On June 15th we kicked off a major series of division-sized operations in Baghdad and the surrounding provinces. As General Odierno said, we have finished the build-up phase and are now beginning the actual “surge of operations”. I have often said that we need to give this time.
From a purely military standpoint, the only way we can lose is by leaving. The political calculus is a much closer issue, but perceived fecklessness of the Iraqi leadership appears to me to be more of an excuse than a center of gravity.

Ranger

Ranger: could that be the case if fewer Iraqis are considered to be civilians if they've had to take up arms in the civil war to protect themselves?

Posted by: EH | July 11, 2007 at 07:22 PM

Nope, it is a reflection of less Iraqi civilians being killed. Nice try though.

Patrick R. Sullivan

Hugh Hewitt had a call in hour today (may still be continuing) in which he limited it to soldiers who actually served in Iraq. The disconnect between those I heard, and what Harry Reid is saying was dramatic.

One Captain who'd served two tours with a two year break between them, said the Iraqi army is much, much better now. That it's a 100% certainty the surge will be effective if we keep at it.

boris

but perceived fecklessness of the Iraqi leadership appears to me to be more of an excuse than a center of gravity

By those who want to impose a playpen society in a nanny state here who aren't willing to provide protection for democracy in it's infancy in a region that plays a major role in our own safety, security, and prosperity.

The only reason I'm a little more optimistic than Other Tom is the closer we get to his projection, the closer we get to my reckoning.

hit and run

Did you see the article in which Ralph Peters interviews David Petraeus?

The last question:

Q: Now that the surge is fully in place, what's your sense of the positives and negatives thus far? If you could have more of any one item, what would it be? Troops? Time? Iraqi unity?

A: I can think of few commanders in history who wouldn't have wanted more troops, more time or more unity among their partners; however, if I could only have one at this point in Iraq, it would be more time. This is an exceedingly tough endeavor that faces countless challenges.

None of us, Iraqi or American, are anything but impatient and frustrated at where we are. But there are no shortcuts. Success in an endeavor like this is the result of steady, unremitting pressure over the long haul. It's a test of wills, demanding patience, determination and stamina from all involved.

kim

It's this simple. We are now members of the tribe al-Ameriki. The Sunni chiefs saw us protect their city cousins from the Shia death squads, and turned on al-Qaeda who had endangered them in the first place. Sistani, or someone, has changed the minds of the Badr Brigade, and now even Sadr is baying after al-Qaeda. And auld acquaintances are not forgot in Baghdad.

Then again, Abdullah of Arabia notes the Persian march to the Mediterranean. And Chalabi, the Master of the Bazaar, bides his time. The oil is under Shia and Kurd land.
======================

Carol Herman

The only thing Dubya has is his reputation; which has taken on some stench from the DC crowd. Why would he capitulate to them?

When Immigration Bill died, it pretty much showed up on Dubya's radar screen as something that had to do with DC. But not the public.

If I had to guess? Dubya is trying to coast on his broken tires to his exit date of January 20, 2007 without taking on more damage. Pretty good guess? McCain fell. Not the president.

I think the current thinking among the cognicenti (who are know-nothings), is that McCain can only falter by still being an advocate for success in Irak.

While the fiasco's of Glasgow and London do make it appear that the Al-Kay-Duh terrorists have taken some hits.

Add to this that Musharraf responded to having terrorists trying to shoot his helicopter (his "pad" was one block away from the Red Mosque), as a loss to the Red Mosque. The bad guy, inside, was on the phone when the last words were: THEY ARE OUTSIDE MY DOOR. CUT.

Too many people are off for their summer vacations. Inside the beltway? It's like the Red Mosque. The elites have their buildings. And, they're shooting away at Dubya. While they're running very poorly with the public. Hey, they're at 14%. Which means they're even less popular than the terrorists.

WHile, when this is over, will just make the Bonkey party look as stupid as John Kerry. Did he win? No. Did Teddy Kennedy just win anything? No.

Who sez when we roll around to the 2008 elections, Americans won't even be tougher on the jerks than the French were? Don't forget, the media didn't give Sarkozy a chance. Did it matter?

Does it matter, ahead?

NARCISO

bY the way, any news on this supposed intel report that Al Queda has reconstituted itself to pre-9/11 levels

Carol Herman

You know, no one is mentioning this. But Olmert always gets in the most trouble with his mouth. So, there he was, promising Abbas prisoners.

The Shin Bet just slapped him hard.

Here's the give and take.

The Shin Bet was told to prepare a list of 250 prisoners, as a good will gesture. To release to Fart'ah. So, the Shin Bet just returned a "new list." Only 120 names are on it NOW. And, Olmert will have to deal with it. Talk about a man who always makes the UNPOPULAR gesture with the home folks.

Yeah. I know. Olmert plays the WEAK HAND. ANd, he's given some losers the nicest portfolios. To make this an even richer mix; Dalia Itzik is producing a bill that anyone who serves in the Knesset; even if only for a year and a half, gets a free government car for LIFE. Perks. They don't really translate to much.

Oh, yeah. Israelis go to the polls, again, in 2008. I think those in Kadima are looking to Ehud Barak, and a "get together" with Labor. As a sort of positioning against Olmert. Whose no fool. But he talks too much. And, Dubya? Doesn't talk at all. New rules for the poker table!

kim

Narciso, it's Nomad's Land. I'd hoped that they were turning on al-Qaeda just as the Sunni in Iraq have done, but maybe not. Paki is troubled and they have the only Muslim bomb. And Salon is publishing a Madrassah leader.
====================================

kim

Someone should explain to Musharaff what happened to the last country to harbor al-Qaeda.
===================

Barney Frank

but perceived fecklessness of the Iraqi leadership appears to me to be more of an excuse than a center of gravity

It's precisely the same excuse the left used in Viet Nam to force our defeat. They apparently so enjoyed a couple million dead Cambodians and a million boat people they'd like a repeat. If it gains them a few votes what's a mountain of corpses of betrayed allies again?

Other Tom

"Is it necessary to break our troops so that
the 'Surge' can be called 'working'?"

Why is it that the Moonbats are so concerned about "breaking" our troops, when the troops themselves are not? Why is it that, in the 13-year period 1984-1986, when the US armed forces averaged 1,200 deaths per year from accident and disease, neither Barbara Boxer nor the dear Cleo expressed any sense of concern or compassion? Could it possibly be that they only become concerned when the deaths of our military people actually occur in the furtherance of American interests?

Perhaps Cleo will rehash for us some of her expressions of outrage back during that period when our poor soldiers, sailors and marines were dying from causes other than combat action against terrorists. Perhaps Cleo will leap into the ether and fly about on gossamer wings...

clarice

Joe Wilson (and Conyers) are sooo yesterday. A quick check of Google News shows not one story on the hearings yet.

maryerose

Barney Frank;
Welcome back.It's good to see you posting again. I'm still praying for your family, and Bad{sad}

maryerose

Joe Wilson's hair has gotten longer and uglier. He looked more the buffoon than ever.

windansea

bY the way, any news on this supposed intel report that Al Queda has reconstituted itself to pre-9/11 levels

MSNBC is pushing it, add salt

if they are stronger why is Zawahiri whining about needing more jihadis and about the red mosque takedown

clarice

Me, too, maryrose.

Barney Frank

Thanks maryrose and clarice.
My wife is doing very well. Her tumor markers are normal and she's running to and fro like a kid.
Has anyone heard from bad/sad lately or Soylent for that matter?

windansea

does this sound like someone who is winning?

Your salvation is only through Jihad, so you must now back the Mujahideen in Afghanistan with your persons, wealth, opinion and expertise, because the Jihad in Afghanistan is the door to salvation for Afghanistan, Pakistan and the rest of the region. Die honorably in the fields of Jihad, and don't live like women with moustaches and beards. Aren't there any honorable ones in Pakistan? Aren't there any jealous ones? Isn't there anyone who prefers the hereafter to the life of this world? "O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that, when you are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, you cling heavily to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the hereafter?

Jane

Why is it that the Moonbats are so concerned about "breaking" our troops, when the troops themselves are not?

That's my question. The answer is that the moonbats don't give a rat's ass about our soldiers, and God forbid they should ask one their opinion.

Barney,

Great news about Mrs. Frank. Soylent has been around but Sad/bad has not, for far too long to be comfortable. Don't you have her email address?

Jane

oops

windansea

Zawahari's Kos diary...

You lying failure: Why can't you be brave at least once in your life and inform your nation of the disasters, which your forces are facing in Afghanistan and Iraq? Why don't you tell them how many million citizens of America and its allies you intend to kill in search of the imaginary victory and in breathless pursuit of the mirage towards which you are driving your people's sons in order to increase your profits? Can't you be honest at least once in your life, and admit that you are a deceitful liar, who intentionally deceived your nation, when you drove them to war in Iraq under the pretext of the presence of nuclear weapons there and under the pretext of Al-Qa'ida's connections with Saddam Husayn, following which evidence proved that you intentionally lied and misled? And do you have the courage to stand in front of your people and tell your nation that you lied to them and drove them -- and continued to drive them -- to terrible things for the sake of stupid fantasies?

I expect the next tape to whine about the Libby pardon

maryerose

windansea:
LOL,Why shouldn't he express an opinion about Libby...everyone else seems to.

windansea

hey, he's got the narrative down, Joe and Val should call him as a witness

windansea

lurking lefties, I know you are there as TM's polls get seriously DUed

how toolish do you feel when a guy who has killed thousands matches your rhetoric word for word?

Pofarmer

That it's a 100% certainty the surge will be effective if we keep at it.

Which explains why Reid and Co. are so desperate to stop it.

Pofarmer

McCaskill was chanelling her inner Moonbat today.

Heard her on the Radio today talking about how AQ has gotten stronger, and we're no safer and we need to concentrate on securing the Homeland. O.K. What would you propose? Against closing the borders. Against wiretapping terrorist calls. Against looking at terrorist bank records. Against putting terrorists in Gitmo. What the hell do they wanna do?

Barney Frank

Jane,

I did have bad's email and I lost it. There was another gal here in the same boat who I emailed with but lost it also.
The last year has been kind of a blur is my only excuse. Last July at this time I didn't think there was much chance my wife would be here now.

Carol Herman

Nowhere near the killing fields in Cambodia, after we pulled out of Nam.

I actually think the old media is managing to frighten people. But then? Unlike the tip of the iceberg, their audiences have shrunk. And, the people whose attention they grab can't read, or, write, or think. The cesspool of the department of education. Grabbing the people who were sent to school by their parent; so they could get the hot meals.

I'm still not impressed with the old media.

If anything? Their stuff resembles the hype given to Albore. Whose Livid Earth show failed to attract viewers.

I guess what's missing is the affects these drumbeats actually have. Given that you can feel a real distaste for them when you view things through the Internet. Millions of people view Drudge's site.

So, how do you rate a "one man operation," against the elites who can't even build buildings without maggots dropping down from the tiles, above?

To say nothing of the fact that the New Yuk Times is supposed to have an architectural section. SO when you do see the problems, what do you see?

NARCISO

So, who declassified the NIE or the threat assessment; I mean that was at least top
secret, right. I'm sure Waas will be looking for the appropriate NDA. In what way is it reconstituted; back then there
was the original 19 players with support
personnel in Hamburg (Zammar, Darkanzali)
Madrid (Darakanzali,again; Zougam, Setmarian,) London (Massoui, Reid et al)
Minneapolis (Zac again)Quahtani detained
in Orlando, bin Al Shibh also blocked in transit: With players like al Shukrijumah
et al; hiding in the shadows in Miramar;among other locations

Ralph L

I can never tell if the defeatists are anti-Bush (or any leader not their man) or anti-American, or just following the fashion of their friends. It is scary how a small minority can cause such trouble.

Pofarmer

So, who declassified the NIE or the threat assessment; I mean that was at least top
secret, right.

I'm sure the investigation will start in ----- well, I ain't holdin my breath.

RichatUF

TM:

Addressing the numbers in the WaPo story-they are probably not the whole story...kind of like the AP using Jamil X and then dissembling when they got caught

Body Count In Baghdad Up in June critique

Methodology

Powerline commentary

PaulV

even if AQ has regain strenght it seems to have loss effectiveness with failures in London and Scotland. Similiar to failure in late 1999 when terrorist got upset when confronted with female security guard. I suspect that the US is more effective in detering terrorists now than then

cathyf
So, who declassified the NIE or the threat assessment; I mean that was at least top secret, right.
Well, hon, you really should have read Fitzgerald's press release on the question. I mean talk about being an ingrate -- Fitzgerald committed criminal contempt by violating grand jury secrecy rules and releasing the report, and you didn't even have to common courtesy to notice it and read it.
windansea

please...Zawahari & co (where's Bindy?) have not gained strength operationally, Zawhini is begging for jihadis, and in Iraq our guys are being accepted as the Al Ameriki tribe..read Yon

anyone who wants to concede defeat to these idiots is clueless beyond belief

I read where 7 of the 8 repubs who crossed sides on the latest surrender bill are up for election next year

they need some reminders on who butters their bread

RichatUF

Posted by: Other Tom | July 11, 2007 at 09:37 PM

Its a faith based initiative to talk about the campaign in Iraq as "failure" with the left. I'm not as gloomy as you, but I would hope that our political class would give our military more time [and space]. I think the leaked 5 page summary about the "resurgent" al-Qeada and the "failing surge" are of a piece of the bureaucray's unending attack on the administration.

The debate will shift to the Kerry model of Iraq has been a distraction from "the war on terror" [as if al-Qeada is the only radical islamic group that attacks Americans].

Also, the budget picture is starting to clear up quite well...what if the budget is balanced in the beginning to middle of next year because of surging capital gains and corporate income taxes-sort of blows a hole in the "can't afford it line of argument"...can almost script out the last couple of weeks [the war debate and the hedge fund/pe hearings]

cathyf

There are those who claim that in an insurgency, right before the insurgents surrender they engage in a paroxysm of violence and killing. The deatheaters know that it's "use it or lose it" so they try to kill and injure as many people as possible before the ability to kill and maim is taken away from them.

So a reduction of killing could be taken as a sign that this isn't going to be over any time soon...

clarice

Re the DC Madam--David Corn steps in it..finds a Senate No. and asks folks to trace it presumably so (as with his gay outing gig)he'd expose only a Rep.
Dan Riehl googles it--It was Moynihan's office--probably a staffer but folks are tracking.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/233290.php

RichatUF

I read where 7 of the 8 repubs who crossed sides on the latest surrender bill are up for election next year

they need some reminders on who butters their bread

Posted by: windansea | July 11, 2007 at 11:51 PM

They are worried that they will get the Soros treatment. There was an article, refreshing for its honesty, in the WaPo or NYT a while back that showed the well oiled machine the "anti-war" movement was. It had a picture of some of the activists working the phone bank...I'm thinking it was when the first war funding bill was being argued and Murtha came out with his "slow bleed strategy"


Bruce Hayden

Michael Yon has been an interesting read on the surge. Today, his post Al-Qaeda on the Run: Feasting on the Moveable Beast talks about the turnaround of many of the Iraqi insurgents to fighting with us against al Qaeda. In this case, two years ago, the 1920s Revolution Brigades was fighting us fairly successfully in Burhiz. Then, in April, they came to our troops there, and asked for help against al Qaeda, their former allies. Since then, we have built up a decent working relationship with this group of former insurgents.

What is so notable, with the Democrats declaring failure in Iraq, is how much the war is really starting to break in our favor. In particular, in the last couple of months, there has been a big shift in the Sunni population, esp. the Sunni tribes, notably in Anbar, and now in other areas like Burhiz, with significant numbers effectively switching sides and working closely with us and the Iraqi army against al Qaeda.

Of course, the other notable thing that has changed is that we are now engaged in "clear and hold", where the insurgents, are cleared out of an area, and then kept out by installing local security stations manned typically by a combination of our troops and Iraqi military and police. This is a significant change from the previous strategy of merely clearing out areas, which allowed the insurgents to return.

But getting back to the Sunnis - what is notable to me is that they have come to the realization that we are their best chance at survival in Iraq against the Shi'a and Kurdish majority. This is a major change - from resistance to open assistance.

Of course, they too want us out - eventually.

Ali thought for a moment as some local people tried to interrupt him with greetings, and he said, “I ask one thing,” and now I paraphrase Ali’s words: “After the Iraqi Army and Police take hold and the security forces are ready, we want a schedule for the leaving of the American forces.”
I am sure that the Administration shares those sentiments, as do I.

Holly Garza

Hi Barney!

I'm so glad to hear your wife is doing so well. *jigs a happy dance*

I haven't emailed you in awhile because I've been focused on hubby's prostate cancer/surgery recovery. My tumor markers are down, too. But the brain is still foggy.

This new typepad thing doesn't allow access to email addresses. Bummer. Maybe I saved one of your emails

SlimGuy

To many want to read the latest numbers on Iraq spewed without any context except the dubious up or down classification.

I highly recommend the longer term look with even graphs showing the trends on a lot of individual statistics tracked by the Brookings Institution for better analysis.

There is a lot of good data in there and they don't pull any punches so that is good.

To me it arms you with much better base knowledge than just the seat of the pants guessing and MSM gotcha quoting that all to many rely on.

pagar

56 Senators, voting for the Webb-Hagel amendment, just voted to send another message of support to the terrorists fighting us in Iraq. Only 41 Republicans said they supported America.

Pofarmer

“After the Iraqi Army and Police take hold and the security forces are ready, we want a schedule for the leaving of the American forces.”

Which is imminently reasonable. I don't think there is anyone who doesn't want out of Iraq. Some of us just want to leave it better than we found it. At least give em a chance. AQ chose to fight us there. Iran and Syria chose to send proxies. The Bathists and Sunni's chose to start their terror campaigns. It wasn't of our choosing to be there this long. We could have had the best post invasion plans in the world, which we probably did anyway, and it would have all been for naught, as the other side changed their tactics.

pagar

"as the other side changed their tactics."

I believe we have been there much longer than we would have been, had not the American leftist terrorists and some American politicians promised, since before Day 1 of the war, and continue to promise the terrorists that they are behind the terrorists 100%. These Americans will assist the terrorists in any way they can to defeat America. We saw the same thing in Vietnam.

Ralph L

"I don't think there is anyone who doesn't want out of Iraq."

Let's leave by way of Damascus (or Teheran).

HoosierHoops

O.K. What would you propose? Against closing the borders. Against wiretapping terrorist calls. Against looking at terrorist bank records. Against putting terrorists in Gitmo. What the hell do they wanna do?

Posted by: Pofarmer | July 11, 2007 at
Run...Run...Run
Nothing has changed much with the Dems...
Sad

windansea

here is the interim status report in bullet points

8 out of 18 satisfactory, 7 not satisfactory, the rest mixed or too soon to determine.

so we're batting over almost 500, this is acceptable for the interim report

kim

pagar, which is why I consider it treasonous to have pushed the 'Bush Lied, People Died' meme, falsely.
========================

kim

It is now Zawahiri's meme, and it is false. It is also aid and comfort.
==========================

hit and run

windansea:
8 out of 18 satisfactory, 7 not satisfactory, the rest mixed or too soon to determine.

And the leaked version of the report said none of the goals have been met.

Whoever was doing the leaking was obviously confusing the Iraqi government with the democrats in congress.

RichatUF

Press confrence just started...

military will let me know when troops can be drawn down not pollsters who say it would be good politics

Satisfactory preformance being made in 8 areas...plimary report less than a month after total forces were in place

Iraq part of a wider conflict...Iran whois developing nuclear weapons and providing training and advanced IEDs to the terrorists in Iraq...

windansea

whole lot a leakin goin on

CNN is pushing the "Al Qaeda is stronger" leak, which appears to have sprouted from thin air, no reasons why they are stronger, who made the assessment blah blah blah

probably comes from Scary and friends

somebody let Zawahiri know, he sounds scared to me

I am

windansea

I am liking the Prez in this press conference

RichatUF

Asks congress to provide the resources and space so I soliders can get the job done...

Thomas: A war of your choosing, blah, blah, blah...UN peacekeepers...you brought al-Qeada into Iraq

[was that a question...]

Bush: A difficult war...a necessary war to secure our peace...radicals are killing civilians to derail progress

A revolt of key Republicians..Lugar is my friend...share my concern that a precipitous withdrawal would be a disaster...I value their advice and I'll continue to listen

Semanticleo

"was obviously confusing the Iraqi government with the democrats in congress."

Or maybe the obstructionist republicans?

Some rats have a greater fear of water than the good ship GWB. One by one they jump ship, however.

As for the surge.....what has happened to
a similar strategy in Basra? Read about it.

http://www.belgraviadispatch.com/

Gabriel Sutherland

The Democrats have a real goal in the war on terror. You just have to look a little more closely to find it.

What is it?

To win more elections. The Democrat strategy focuses spending on the homeland. The foreign policy is engineered around giving other nations money, sharing intelligence, and passing the buck of hunting down Al Qaida. The Democrats would rather we negotiate with Iran to convince them to root out Al Qaida and in exchange we'll restore diplomatic relations, trade, and start passing them "Egypt light" foreign aid. Think 1 billion US annually.

The Democrats don't have defense spending as a priority. They would much rather we allocate appropriations to healthcare.

What good is healthcare if your citizenry is under constant threat of death from "people doing things".

RichatUF

Gregroy quoted Mike Hayden speaking to the Iraq Study Group....

You are stubborn and in denial unrealistic about the cost in money and lives

[Pres seems annoyed...repeats point about consequences about failing in Iraq]...realistic about the consequencies of failure in Iraq...the killings would not stay in Iraq if we leave

The same al-Qeada that attacked us on 9/11 are the same as those in Iraq today...

RichatUF

Difficult to get law passed in Iraq [ed comment: like it was during the Ottoman Empire...]

Scooter Libby commutation...leaked the name of a "confidential operator" [ed note: hey jackass, go way to move the goalposts]...it would have been nice if the person that leaked the name had come forward...decison was fair and balanced

Windell [FOX News] conditions for victory...would more troops earlier have helped...his question to Franks was "do you have enough to win both the campaign and after" Franks said he had enough...was satisified with the strategy then [ed note: Iraq has had 3 national elections and a constitution after the Ba'ath Party collapased...there was no army or institutions left to rebuild in May 2003]

speaking about reconcilitation and the difficult work after the Sammiar Mosque bombing...received inspiration from our soliders and their families who want to get the job done

Other Tom

Cleo, if you are genuinely interested in "what has happened to the surge," I suggest you listen to what David Petraeus has to say about it.

hit and run

I suggest you listen to what David Petraeus has to say about it.


Why?

Harry Reid knows more than Petraeus...

CNN Interviewer: "General Petraeus is going to come to the Hill...and make it clear to you that there is progress going on in Iraq...will you believe him?"

Reid: "No. I won't believe him because it isn't happening."


RichatUF

Why can't we have a slow withdrawal?

[wha...a retread of the Murtha slow bleed strategy]

How comfortable are you with DHS head saying his gut tells him the terror threat is increasing...and what is your gut telling you?

...suicide bombing and ieds are their weapons of choice...in our interest to stay on the offensive...freedom has an amazing way for laying the groundwork for peacce...freedom is universal...so when they voted in 2005 was pleased...will be dealing with this issue for a while...the democracy movement in the ME...freer socities with Iraq as a stable and free society...

If we leave we will have to go back eventually...

asked to speculate on what Petreaus has to say...trust David's judgement...a straight shooter...

How difficult is it to conduct a war without popular support...the question is whether we can win it...if we are to withdrawal...can we succeed...we must succeed...if I took a poll or a focus group what would our tropps think that I would be more concerned with the politics not their saftey [nice shot at Clinton who ran a bunch of polls and focus groups after Somalia]

hit and run

Of course, Harry Reid had a week earlier than that comment staked out a position, and probably felt obligated to continue on that path:

"I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything"

Semanticleo

It's all about credibility.

hit and run

And I would be remiss if I didn't point out that a week before that statement...Reid was given an electoral reason to hold that position...

"We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war," Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.) told reporters yesterday. "Senator Schumer has shown me numbers that are compelling and astounding."

RichatUF

Whoa...he came back to the podium in regards to the leaked al-Qeada reseugent report...he looked really ticked off...

It is not ture that they are at pre 911 strength...[man I wonder who leaked that little snowflake]

windansea

It's all about credibility.

here is Cleo's idol...being credible

"We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war,"

hit and run

windansea, Reid has shown us a lack of credibility that is "compelling and astoudning".

Pofarmer

My letter to Clair McCaskill

Senator McCaskill.

I heard your soundbite on the radio yesterday saying how we need to focus on homeland security. I'm just wondering what that entails? Democrats have been against wiretapping terrorist phone calls into the U.S. They have been against keeping terrorists at Gitmo. Democrats have been against searching and tracking terrorists bank records overseas. And, in addition to this, most Democrats seem to be opposed to closing our borders and controlling immigration. Is there a plan, or is this just more empty rhetoric?

windansea

Cleo Reid & Zawee
sitting in a tree
k. i. s. s. i. n. g.

hit and run

First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes genital mutilation and stoning...

windansea

for all we know Cleo could be a jihadi with a thesaurus

or maybe she is just a Canadian who enjoys rough play with neocons

Extraneus

The only reason I can think of to leave Iraq is if we actually want the people there to wallow in the aftermath, say to further some strategic purpose. The idea that we'd leave otherwise -- surrender and accept the consequences to the Iraqis and to ourselves, just to avoid such historically low casualty numbers relative to similarly important battles -- is something probably more understandable to jaded political operatives and cowards.

Realpolitik aside, I think it would be immoral to leave the Iraqis to suffer their fate alone at the hands of the head-choppers, many of whom are only there to fight us (and, of course, to enlist the American left in their cause, which they've successfully and easily done).

I often look to the statements of military people in Iraq, to discern their attitudes about the Iraqis themselves. What I still find surprising is the genuine and deep affection our rank and file military people seem to have for common Iraqis. Considering how easy it would be to take the attitude that they're not worth it, this alone indicates to me where the moral high ground is in this conflict. The fact that it's also the global-strategic high ground is fortuitous.

Pofarmer

The fact that it's also the global-strategic high ground is fortuitous.

NO, no, no.

You must have missed the memo. The War in Iraq is a distraction from the "Real War on Terror".

I think the "Real war on Terror" involve checkpoints in St. Louis, or something.

Rick Ballard

"I think the "Real war on Terror" involve checkpoints in St. Louis, or something."

The "real" war is fought wherever a Republican is found.

Copperheads don't change.

pagar

When someone says "Senator Schumer has shown me numbers that are compelling and astounding."

We need to find out who's credit report has been stolen.

PeterUK

Looks like Baby Bashar and Nancy's affair is over 200 suicide belts captured at the Iraq Syria border.These peacenics really know how to pick them.

Jane

That's funny!

PeterUK

""I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything"

Which is a euphemism for "This is bad for business".

TMF

Cleo summed it up best

He and his defeatist ilk truly believe the supporters of the surge (which include right wing extremist Joe Lieberman, and about a dozen Ds in congress)are supporting it just to say they support it.

Not because they believe it can truly work and achieve results, and that we need to give Petraeus a chance. As if even the dumbest Dems sincerely think 1 month is enough time.

He thinks everyone thinks like a Democrat- ie. solely in narcisistic power grab terms.

MarkD

Is saying "Kagan is related to..." the same as saying "took money from the Oil and Petroleum Institute?"

If so, the corollary is certainly true. Why do I never read "who is paid by the liberal New York Times" or "whose position depends on government funding which will dry up unless global warming remains a crisis?"

Maybe that's a given and I'm foolish to expect it. It's like the convicted politicians belonging to no stated political party.

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