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August 01, 2007

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hit and run

So he's a cowboy unilateralist...

If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

...if he means it...

...or cynical...

"an attempt to show strength when his chief rival has described his foreign policy skills as naive"

...if he doesn't.

This may come as a surprise to some, given my and Obama's history together, but I'm just not picking up a yipee cay yay vibe from him.

PaulV

great- Did Pakistan get nuclear arms during Clinton's watch, unknown to that smart CIA super covert spy?
Will we just terror bomb as we do not have enough mountain troops to invade those mountains. Conventional bombs not effective in mountains, Obama may want to use nukes.

Patrick R. Sullivan
I really don't know what Obama is thinking here.

He sure isn't thinking about the terrain. That's literally the last place in the world to send troops. All our logistical advantages go away.

PeterUK

"I'll guess this keeps the Gore flame flickering "

More Gore carbon emissions.

clarice

I'm glad Anon Lib is agitated. Maybe the head tossing will rearrange things in the cranium and get the brain working properly again.

Les Nessman

"..his chief rival has described his foreign policy skills as naive."

And threatening to invade nuclear Pakistan helps dispel the idea that he is naive?? How does he think this will help?

hit and run

Well, think about it.

In the last debate he said he would meet with Castro, Chavez, Amadinejad and Kim Jong Il in his first year as president without any qualifications.

He is agitating for Musharraf to be overthrown so a dictatorship can replace the democratically elected president.

Obama Likes Dictators.

hit and run

CHESS NOT CHECKERS: Oh, he's saber rattling now, but his real goal here is to win the endorsement of fellow dictator loving Jimmy Carter.

Rick Ballard

"I really don't know what Obama is thinking here."

"Our internal polling shows Congressional approval at far lower than the 14% published by our allies in the press. We promised "moderation" and delivered left wing nuttery and we're gonna get killed in '08 unless we do a 180. Plus that damned Petraeus appears to actually know what he's doing and the military side of the equation in Iraq is going better than our AQ allies thought possible. Damn, I know I suck up money from the nutters but they're useless for anything but money....

How can I stick with "Iraq is a failure" and snooker folks into seeing a backbone where none has ever existed? Iran is off the table - too much dough coming from the mullahs, inshallah... What's the next one over? Shoot, we're already in Afghanistan and our Afghani Taleb partners keep screwing up and dying like flies...

Well, we're not getting any Pak money to speak of, maybe it's time to "talk tough" about that scurrilous dictator Musharraf."

PeterUK

"He sure isn't thinking about the terrain".

He doesn't know about the terrain,he's a politician,he knows sweet Fanny Adams about anything.

hit and run

Les Nessman:
And threatening to invade nuclear Pakistan


It's Gore-bait.

Cause a nuclear winter to stem the tide of global warming.

HoosierHoops

H&R You are in top form this morning...

If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

So after obama mama gets done gutting the NSA, CIA and FBI and wiretaps will be illegal to use, gitmo will be empty...uhhh.
where is all the actionable intelligence going to come from? Larry Johnson?
The Far-left must be freaking out right now..time to start painting those 'Hell No we won't go' signs...

Gmax

I was trying to think of the various factions of the Democrat caucus, as much as it pains me. So isn't the nutroots no war contingent split pretty well between Edwards and OBama currently? How will these rabid ones take this news? Will they see it as a wink and a nod without any real fist in the glove?

I give it about 50/50 odds right now that a sunder erupts in the Democrats after their coronation of the nominee. You have already heard Code Pink and Mama Sheehan decry the Democrats as wont do what they were sent to do, so when their guys get banished to the outback dont they just get mad and stay home or vote for Ralph again?

JayC

I admire his consistency:

* Withdraw from Iraq
* Ignore Afghanistan
* Appease Iran
* Invade Pakistan

Ow. Obama makes my head hurt.

SWarren

I think Gore is likely to follow his ego, deciding that he is the only one who can win the Presidency. Didn't he recently cancel his speaking engagements for the next 6 months? And then there is his new book.
My bet is he jumps in, unless Hillary's mean machine has some dirt on him.

Cecil Turner

Leaving off the obvious problems of a nuclear deterrent and unfavorable terrain, Senator Obama, fresh off complaining how our military is overstretched in Iraq (population 27 million), is now suggesting we invade Pakistan (population 164 million). Not so much worried about what he's thinking . . . I'm more worried he can't count.

EH

Bleh. If Bush said the same thing people would be falling all over themselves for his "strength."

Pofarmer

Hmmm, bottle em up in Pakistan, enlist the help of Pakistan's neighbors, surveillance, surveillance, surveillance. Any of em pop their heads up, whack em. Works for me, then again, I ain't Obama. Maybe he'd like to lead the first battalion of Special Ops into the Mountains?

I think Obama Hussein is about to unravel. Too driven by polling. No center of gravity.

Appalled Moderate

Cecil:

Obama will have all those troops wasting time in Iraq on January 20....

There is an argument to be made that Iraq keeps us from a credible threat against Pakistan. (That peace traty Mush signed is about the worst thing he could have done. sigh.)

However, Obama's comment is just loopy. Empty threats from an empty head, one fears...

hit and run

TM:
rank appeal to his ego, insisting that this is not about Al but about saving the planet - Obama is dangerously inexperienced, Hillary is unelectable, but Al can stave off Evil Rudy (or Evil Fred) and save the planet.


Oh, I disagree. Vehemently, if shamefully. You left someone out of the mix.

Well, I have to come clean. It's only fair that I be honest here.

I will be voting for John Edwards.

There I said it. I didn't like saying it, I don't even like thinking about it, but that's the way it's gotta be.

mrs hit and run has single-handedly, in less than two weeks in Hawaii, placed us squarely in the Other America.

I really have no choice in the matter.

[VIMH: Ah, come on, it can't all that bad?]
No, you're right, with all the points racked up on the credit card, I bet we can get a pen set, a ceramic dog, an Elvis plate, a limited-edition, gold-plated commemorative Jeff Gordon coin and like 50 magazine subscriptions.

[VIMH: F-I-F-T-Y magazine subscriptions?]
Egads, you’re right...are there even 50 magazines to choose from before I have to get Newsweek or f'n Oprah???

[VIMH: Oh, that's just sick. Really.]
Oh, gosh sorry, I didn't even realize, yeah, the phrase “f'n Oprah” was an accident, and I had no intent to paint that image.

[VIMH: No, I mean subscribing to Newsweek]
Oh, right. Gotcha.

Anyway, Go Edwards!

Uncle Bigbad

So. He would send troops into Pakistan to rout out terrorists.

Does that mean that he would also
send troops into Iraq to rout out terrorists?
send troops into Iran to rout out terrorists?
send troops into Syria to rout out terrorists?
etc.

What am I missing?

Rick Ballard

Rasmussen has new party identification numbers up which highlight problems for both sides.

They both seem to be losing the struggle for the muddle with the Dems losing slightly more. The Dems will do better once they get the nutters locked in the attic.

clarice

Uncle..Those troops will be sent to Darfur to prevent genocide. Though we shouldn't keep our troops in Iraq even if it will result in a far bigger genocide if we remove them.
Gosh, how hard is that to figure out?

Pofarmer

No,no, no Clarice, you aren't thinking straight. This is law enforcement see? You aren't allowed to preempt a crime, you only punish for it after it happens. Therefore, since there isn't any genocide in Iraq, "right now," there is no need for us to be there. After the genocide, then it's O.K. to go back in from Okinawa and clean things up. Got it?

Neo

It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al-Qaida leadership meeting in 2005.

So now we had Obama jockeying to the right of Donald Rumsfeld, who called off the 2005 action after planners had designed an incredibly huge footprint for the operation.

Uncle Bigbad

Thanks Clarice,

I'm so naive, but I have to tell you - Obama, Hillary, & Silky scare me more than Cheney scares the nutroots.

Pofarmer

Isn't one of Barack Hussein's reasons for being against the Iraq war the argument that Iraq didn't attack us on 9/11? Yeah, yeah, I know, links and all that. But? Pakistan Did?

He needs a straight jacket to get himself out of these knots.

centralcal

Speaking of Gore ....

Every photo of him in recent years, and many video clips, make him look like a man battling demons. (Check out his eyes). I have long wondered (seriously, not snarkily) if he is mentally stable?

I am basing this mostly on the way he looks and the way he says things (rather than what he says).

Anybody else get the heeby jeebies looking at his pictures?

Jack T

Obama never said he would invade the country. He said he would have let go foward the targeted strike of Al-Qaeda that Bush aborted and let bin Laden go free. There is a world of difference between a targeted strike and an invasion. Furthermore, you really are being uncreative and knee-jerk in your response. This is obviously an implicit attack on the Clintons, as the Clintons refused to take out Osama by missile when they had him in their crosshairs because Sandy Berger suspected they lacked proper authorization. Playing up the invasion spin just misses the point.

Zoe

an attempt to show strength when his chief rival has described his foreign policy skills as naive

This is some bunk the reporter made up.

hit and run

More from that Obama speech from Geraghty

Ending the war will help isolate al Qaeda and give Iraqis the incentive and opportunity to take them out.

cathyf
Every photo of him in recent years, and many video clips, make him look like a man battling demons. (Check out his eyes). I have long wondered (seriously, not snarkily) if he is mentally stable?
I think it was Taranto who pointed out years ago that the one time that the public saw Al Gore totally at peace with himself was during his concession speech in Dec, 2000. I think what you are seeing is that Al Gore is a man who does not want to be president.

As to whether wanting to be president is more or less crazy than running when you don't want to be president, well, that's a different argument...

PaulL

"* Withdraw from Iraq
* Ignore Afghanistan
* Appease Iran
* Invade Pakistan"

I don't think this shows anything more than taking the opposite position to whatever one Pres. Bush has taken.

Also, according to Hussein Obama's "thinking," we can't fight terrorists in Iraq because they weren't there before our invasion. Therefore, they get a pass.

Gmax

There is a world of difference between a targeted strike and an invasion.

Unfortunately for your young and naive waif of a candidate, no there is not. A cross border incursion is an act of war pure and simple. So exactly what has Pakistan done as a act of war against the USA that would brand them the aggressor here and not the USA?

I will save my unilateralist cowboy diplomacy taunt until after you cook up some Bullshite response.

hit and run

From the speech:

It is time to turn the page. When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan;
...
The first step must be getting off the wrong battlefield in Iraq, and taking the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

You can certainly interpret "battlefield" as less than invasion or occupation...but it seems he lumps Afghanistan, where we have invaded and Pakistan, where we have not, into one single battlefield...

cathyf
Ending the war will help isolate al Qaeda and give Iraqis the incentive and opportunity to take them out.
Ooo, that sounds good. Let's apply it to domestic policies:
Ending crime will help isolate the mafia and give ghetto dwellers the incentive and opportunity to take them out.
When the left says that we can unilaterally end a defensive war, do you think they are really that stupid, or that they think everyone else is?

If they were to be walking down the street and come upon a woman being raped, would their only response be to excoriate the woman for masturbating in public?

Pofarmer

Let's see, when we leave Iraq, I wonder where all those Terrorrists in Pakistan will go?

Just askin.

Daniel

What's so unusual about a Dem promising to support millitary action someplace other than where it is actually occuring?

HoosierHoops

There is a world of difference between a targeted strike and an invasion. Furthermore, you really are being uncreative and knee-jerk in your response..

Well Jack..I wasn't aware of the technology available to us to fire a missle from a ship or wherever and fly it into remote mountain ranges and find a cave and..Bam! Dead terrorists!! what about forward air operators, Ranger teams, Seal teams, the 10th mountain Division, logistical support teams? If juicing a missle for a targeted strike was so simple, Bush would have already pushed the button by now, don't you think? a 1000 miles of mountain ranges and we are going to find some terrorists in a cave there by our super secret super duper sighting thingy dingy rocket launcher..thingy.. or better yet..some arabs are camping out one night under the stars and a drone kills them..who's actionable intellegence provided that target..his pissed off brother-in-law? Obama should have a field day being the CIC..so many buttons to push..so little time..
( the previous knee-jerk reaction was brought to you by the hoopster.. a division of trash talk America, ) SWISH!!

Rick Ballard

"If they were to be walking down the street and come upon a woman being raped, would their only response be to excoriate the woman for masturbating in public?"

It would be helpful if you gave the race and economic status of the participants in the drama. How can thorough polling be done and a study group questioned without necessary and vital information being made available?

royf

Let's see, when we leave Iraq, I wonder where all those Terrorrists in Pakistan will go?

Just askin.


I've said this a dozen times. If we leave Iraq there will be tapes shortly after which show Zarqhawi and Osama (if he's alive) in Baghdad.

You can bet on it.

PeterUK

"Those troops will be sent to Darfur to prevent genocide."

Since the invasion of Iraq has attracted al Qaeda to fight there,why wouldn't Darfur provide the same attraction,probably afford a better chance of victory over a small "police" force.
It has been said that Iraq is Ameruca's fly trap,what if Darfur is al Qaeda's fly trap.

Syl

The sweet irony about Obama's remarks is that if Hillary counters them, she WILL sound like Bush Lite. Whatsa Dem to do.

Obama isn't going anywhere, Hill will win. The problem will be in the general with all those voters who really really want Obama. Will they settle for Bush Lite or will they sit the whole thing out?

(Many of them are young and would be first time voters--perhaps they'll leave their first time for 2012.)

----------------------------

Anybody hear what I heard a week or so ago? The number of foreign jihadi's going to Afghanistan has tripled in the last few weeks.

wonder why. Hmmmm. It couldn't be they know something the Dems don't--that we're smashing al Qaeda in Iraq and the jihadis aren't going to die for a lost cause?

Robin Roberts

I've seen "Jack T's" response posted word for word under different names on different blogs comment section.

In all cases, his comment is simply false both as pointed out above, and as that isn't what Obama said.

clarice

I agree with cathy's evaluation of Gore. Pity he flunked theology school because he seems happiest playing a sort of Elmer Gantry guy on stage (though he is a real snob ).

Daniel"What's so unusual about a Dem promising to support millitary action someplace other than where it is actually occuring?" Bingo. Were I writing the ads for the RNC I'd do something called "Over There" and run clips of them always calling for us to leave where we are and fight the "real enemy" OVER THERE.

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

Don't forget to add that they will hit OVER THERE with every Camel Butt/Empty Tent Seeker Missile in the arsenal. Until there's a single casualty, of course.

I've always wondered if the same company makes the deadly Republican Wedding Party Seeker. Is it just a change in guidance systems?

Pofarmer

that we're smashing al Qaeda in Iraq and the jihadis aren't going to die for a lost cause?

Oh, I think they'll still die for a lost cause somewhere, it just won't be in Iraq. Pitty we didn't just let Slobodan Milosovech handle em.

narciso

There's an argument, that Pakistan, through it's ISI liason; Saeed Omar Sheikk, the man who kidnapped but didin't kill Danny Pearl;
routing moneys from General Mahmood Shah, did have a larger role in 9/11 than we ordinarily credit. However, the Britsh track record in the NorthWest Frontier; at Buner, the Black Mountains, the Mahsud expeditions as well as Malakand, & the Fakir hunt of the 30s, should really make
us seriously reconsider Effendi Barak's suggestion there. Another likely target is egypt, which in return for the 3 billion+
we provided for the due to the machinations of a down & out Saudi spymaster Kamal Adham, (known as the Camp David Accords) they cultivate the likes of Atta, sheik Rahman, Seif Al Adel, Hamiz Rabia (the Al queda commander, snuffed out right around
the time of the purported NY Times story)
Sheik Quradwi, the fun loving Shaheed encouraging pen pal of Ken Livingstone, the whole Khan clan, including Omar, the lovable scamp who killed pfc Christopher
Speer, but he's not an unlawful alien combatant. Al Zawahiri, and his protege Abu Hamza Muhajir; the emir of Al Queda in Iraq. Oh and one can't forget the Sinai bomber,Back in the day, the Brits invade
Egypt during the addministration of a nominally non-interventionist prim minister; his predecessor had been defeated in Affghanistan, due to Maiwand nad all that. The Brits went in there to collect some bad debts, kind of the way our interventions in Nicaragua and Dominican
Republic started out, they stayed 40 years
official, 74 unofficially. Oh, and if you're not concerned enough, According to Aj. Venter's Allah's Bomb, Egypt is well on its way to it's own A-bomb program. A nuclear program in a Sunni Arab state, where
almost all the institutions have been islamicized by Wahhabi and Salafi influences; check please.

No big deal I say, Back then, they were only
armed with jezails; the Ak-47 of the day. Now it's F-16s (secured by Lanny Davis's lobbying) Ghauri and other weapons, from chinese derivations, and the nuclear weapons
provided by AQ Khan. According to William Langewiesche's Nuclear Bazaar, the campaign
to detect him, went by the boards so often, mostly because of the CIA's unwillingness to
nab him, presumably because he could lead us
to larger institutions, good luck with that,
Which brings me to Art Keller, the latest company man, warbling about the terror in Waziristan ( Wait a minute, I thought we weren't allowed in Waziristan. According his bio, featured on Chicago Public Radio,
*www.wbez.org/Program-wv-segementaspx?segment ID, he too was a member of Plames's
vaunted CPD of the Operations division.

Pofarmer

Until there's a single casualty, of course.

Yeah, or untill we run out of em. I kinda always thought that was Clintoons strategy. Keep us run out of the good stuff so the Military couldn't just run off and do some good with it.

PeterUK

Clarice here's your soundtrack.

"Over There

Johnnie, get your gun,
Get your gun, get your gun,
Take it on the run,
On the run, on the run.
Hear them calling, you and me,
Every son of liberty.
Hurry right away,
No delay, go today,
Make your daddy glad
To have had such a lad.
Tell your sweetheart not to pine,
To be proud her boy's in line.
(chorus sung twice)

Johnnie, get your gun,
Get your gun, get your gun,
Johnnie show the Hun
Who's a son of a gun.
Hoist the flag and let her fly,
Yankee Doodle do or die.
Pack your little kit,
Show your grit, do your bit.
Yankee to the ranks,
From the towns and the tanks.
Make your mother proud of you,
And the old Red, White and Blue.
(chorus sung twice)

Chorus
Over there, over there,
Send the word, send the word over there -
That the Yanks are coming,
The Yanks are coming,
The drums rum-tumming
Ev'rywhere.
So prepare, say a pray'r,
Send the word, send the word to beware.
We'll be over, we're coming over,
And we won't come back till it's over
Over there."

Enter Jack Murtha,
"Somewhere over the horizon
Way up high
There's a land that I heard of
Called Okinawa

Somewhere over the rainbow
Skies are blue
And the dreams that you dare to dream
Really do come true "

PeterUK

Mr Ballard,
The trick is to launch the CBETSM long range over land,this allow the odd nomad with a satellite phone to call HQ and inform the staff that it is time, to use Mao's great phrase,to make the "Great Leap Sideways".

PeterUK

Mr Ballard,
The trick is to launch the CBETSM long range over land,this allow the odd nomad with a satellite phone to call HQ and inform the staff that it is time, to use Mao's great phrase,to make the "Great Leap Sideways".

clarice

Good PUK--Now if Hit grabs the sound bites we need we're on our way to a UTube Hit--

Over The(re)Rainbow

clarice

Rick, the Republican guided wedding party missile was a top top top secret, per scary Larry..I'm afraid you are in deep doodoo.

memomachine

Hmmmm.

I look forward to the day when President Obama sends American soldiers to fight and die in a foreign land, trading blood for oil.

So you damn **liberal chickenhawks** when are you going to sign up for the Army??

Oh and btw, just how much is President Obama getting from Haliburton?

Cecil Turner

There is an argument to be made that Iraq keeps us from a credible threat against Pakistan.

I agree with the rest of your comment, but this part isn't on. Only a complete military moron would suggest we can invade Pakistan. That operation would necessarily entail an amphibious landing against a country with about half our population, at the end of a logistical tail stretching to the other side of the world, with a credible nuclear deterrent if we stuck our forces in its very limited range. The only credible threat we have against Pakistan (if we departed the path of wisdom enough to want to do so) would be with bombers, a carrier or two, or ICBMs. None of those are overly tasked with Iraq.

Obama never said he would invade the country.

Yes, that's right. The AP quote above does mention invasion, but it appears to be the typical clueless reporter using it in the non-military sense. If you go to Obama's actual remarks, it's clear he's talking about cross-border raids. And those are quite feasible, though likely to be counterproductive. He's got some other silly stuff in there, but "invasion" wasn't part of it.

Carol Herman

Sorry, folks, but Algore is a SORE LOSER. We can thank him for the total disregard democraps have shown to Bush. Which started, when he was accused of stealing the election in 2000.

That's far from the truth, ya know.

Bush has won ALL the recounts done manually on ALL of the Florida votes. Each time, Bush pulled ahead of Algore. And, sorry, Palm Beach, you don't get re-do's on butterfly ballots. (To make up for this, Palm Beach, in 2004, had double-voters. Who also voted in New York State.) Still, weren't able to steal it for Kerry.

THere's been lots of slides ever since. Dan Rather is OUT at C-BS. And, C-BS is tanking in the ratings department. Seems, too, all the media broadcasters "lost" the youth votes." The 18 to 25 year olds who tell you straight out, they get their news from the Internet.

Things flow freely. And, fast. On the Internet. So that the MSM hasn't come to grips with how fast a story of there, meant to do harms ... Let's say to our troops. Ends up schmearing egg all over the faces of the media cohorts. Most recent one to find this out? TNR.

As to running Algore, the bonkeys can do anything they like. I'm the least likely person on earth to vote for one of their candidates. I just won't do it. How's that for a package?

And, I grew up in a home that idolized Adeli Stevenson. But what we get now is a far cry from that old egg head. And, he didn't win, either. Too many people liked Ike.

That's just the way it is in politics.

And, if you reach far back into our history, you'll see that's how Lincoln won the presidency. While the WHIGS had a death grip. And, the "reality" hit those who switched parties, and became republicans.

Sure, there were "favorite sons" ahead of Lincoln. 3 of them. As a matter of fact. But Lincoln had the ability to win on a national ticket.

Today, Guiliani has the best shot.

So, let's see what the "powers that be" inside the GOP tent do with this information.

Once? They let General Douglas MacArthur slip through their fingers. 1948. By 1952, after Truman destroyed MacArthur, a far worthier man; the GOP turned to Ike. In desperation. Oh, and that's what they got.

Rick Ballard

NARCISO,

If you had a blog going with that type of info developed into a post, I can guarantee you at least one avid reader. You and Rocco come up with some damned good info.

Appalled Moderate

CT:

An invasion of Pakistan would likely be a disaster, but the threat of one (backed up by troops actually being available) might have moved Mush to do something faster, or not raise a fuss when a we are in hot pusuit of some Talaban.

But, there's no way we will be out of Iraq until well into 2009 (if then). Therefore, any threat is empty for the next two-three years.

Pofarmer

but the threat of one

Why would we do that? We need overflight of Pakistani airspace to conduct operations in Afghanistan. It's just stupid. Would you rather fight your way in and out of Afghanistan, or have even a nominal Ally? What would we have gained by threatening Pakistan?

clarice

I agree, Rick. If we could also persuade narciso to slow down--he always posts so much and so cryptically it's hard for my old brain to fully absorb it.

Zoe

Robin Roberts,

A cross border incursion is not an "invasion" -- and people are spinning the speech to turn it into 160,000 troops marching into Pakistan. That is not what Obama said.

Zoe

Robin Roberts,

A cross border incursion is not an "invasion" -- and people are spinning the speech to turn it into 160,000 troops marching into Pakistan. That is not what Obama said.

Zoe

Robin Roberts,

A cross border incursion is not an "invasion" -- and people are spinning the speech to turn it into 160,000 troops marching into Pakistan. That is not what Obama said.

PaulV

A cross border incursion is an "invasion" and an act of war. Ask Pancho Vila.
Rumsfeld cancelled because an effective operation would be too large and would have damaged relations with Pakistan. Even with all the problems there Pakistan has been our most effective ally against BL and AQ.

Zoe

Striking against certain al Qaeda strongholds within Pakistan, or even sending in troops to those mountainous footholds, isn't the same thing as overthrowing Pakistan, which is what you seem to imply.

Zoe

Striking against certain al Qaeda strongholds within Pakistan, or even sending in troops to those mountainous footholds, isn't the same thing as overthrowing Pakistan, which is what you seem to imply.

Zoe

Striking against certain al Qaeda strongholds within Pakistan, or even sending in troops to those mountainous footholds, isn't the same thing as overthrowing Pakistan, which is what you seem to imply.

Rick Ballard

"which is what you seem to imply"

It wasn't implied at all, whatsoever. You need a refresher course in sophistry before you charge in here. Just 'cause you have a bad stutter doesn't mean you're getting any sympathy in aid of acceptance of a halfassed, unfounded assertion.

Almost forgot - Obama really is an empty suit.

Honest.

Pofarmer

Striking against certain al Qaeda strongholds within Pakistan, or even sending in troops to those mountainous footholds, isn't the same thing as overthrowing Pakistan, which is what you seem to imply.

Legally? What's the difference. It isn't our territory, and we haven't been invited. Besides, the backlash if we do it, might very well overthrow Musharaff's govt, so the result is the same either way. How do you maintain Afghanistan without cooperation from Pakistan?

Pofarmer

The Illinois senator warned Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf that he must do more to shut down terrorist operations in his country and evict foreign fighters under an Obama presidency, or Pakistan will risk a U.S. troop invasion and losing hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid.

Why don't you take it up with the AP?

PeterUK

These cross border raids,where do the emanate from,presumably from land locked Afghanistan which is supplied via Pakistan? I would posit that the level of such raids,without enraging a hostile population in Pakistan is already being tacitly undertaken.
There is also the slight problem of terrorists taking refuge in Iran,more cross border incursions?
Lastly cross border incursions have been the cause of a large number of major wars.It might be more impressive to win the war you have instead of a mindless rolling war,forever changing the venue.

PaulV

Funny, Obamma is spinning out of control and his handlers in full Orwellian mode are trying to distort the plain meaning of his words because he keeps fouling up when allowed to speak in public.

PaulV

Zoe, if you have nothing to add to discuss you may as well add it trice.

hit and run

Remember, what we read here are not the words he spoke, but the text that was prepared for the speech.

The carefully planned, explicitly chosen words.

Whatever they are, they are not gaffes or botched jokes.

PeterUK

Now I don't know how many American Muslims are of Pakistani origin but threatening the old country seems a rather negative vote winner.It would seem B Hussein Obama is as poor a politician as he is a strategian.

Zoe

The Illinois senator warned Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf that he must do more to shut down terrorist operations in his country and evict foreign fighters under an Obama presidency, or Pakistan will risk a U.S. troop invasion and losing hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid.

Saying there is a "risk of invasion" is no different from saying "all options are on the table" w/r/t Iran, which it is not a commitment to nuke Iran. What Obama did commit to was striking in Pakistan when there is actionable intelligence and Pakistan will not act: and specifically referred to Bush's aborted 2005 strike on al-Qaeda. That aborted operation was not an invasion: that was what Obama comitted to.

You're simply distorting the speech.

Zoe

The Illinois senator warned Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf that he must do more to shut down terrorist operations in his country and evict foreign fighters under an Obama presidency, or Pakistan will risk a U.S. troop invasion and losing hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid.

Saying there is a "risk of invasion" is no different from saying "all options are on the table" w/r/t Iran, which it is not a commitment to nuke Iran. What Obama did commit to was striking in Pakistan when there is actionable intelligence and Pakistan will not act: and specifically referred to Bush's aborted 2005 strike on al-Qaeda. That aborted operation was not an invasion: that was what Obama comitted to.

You're simply distorting the speech.

hit and run

To be fair, I am completely open to the claim that I am being unfair to the poor beleagured Senator from Illinois. But, I do not trust him. I think his positions are born out of deep cynicism, the primary concern of which is what is best to get him elected.

And to be fair to him, that is the same as nearly every politician whose name is known to the public on a national scale.

But to be fair to us, he should drop the whole fresh new voice of hope and reconciliation, above the fray and free from special interests and whatever it is he is selling.

Because it's transparent campaign rhetoric.

Well, transparent if you're paying attention, which he knows full well 90+% of the population isn't.

To be fair, he ain't stupid.

PeterUK

" But they can provoke the reaction we've seen in Iraq: a misguided invasion of a Muslim country that sparks new insurgencies, ties down our military, busts our budgets, increases the pool of terrorist recruits, alienates America, gives democracy a bad name, and prompts the American people to question our engagement in the world."

Whereas incursions into Buddhist Pakistan will generate no new insurgents.


"What Obama did commit to was striking in Pakistan when there is actionable intelligence and Pakistan will not act:"

This seems rather imperialist and racialist,do you not think that the brown people would object to infringements of their sovereignty?

clarice

PUK, Not many Paks here. You are the receiving nation of choice.
OT: Hillary's long-hidden senior thesis is online.
Go to it.

http://gopublius.com/hillary-clintons-wellesley-thesis/

Rick Ballard

Mr Uk,

Give poor Hussein a break - he's never been involved in anything more strategically complicated than selling his vote to a crooked developer. Give him a chance in the Senate and he'll be selling out to leftist interests around the world in no time.

Zoe

This seems rather imperialist and racialist, do you not think that the brown people would object to infringements of their sovereignty?

"The brown people"? Yes, Pakistan is one undifferentiated mass of brownness, you British colonialist.

HoosierHoops

Well at least Zoe is down from 3 to 2 repeats per post..
I'll say this once..If you base your foriegn policy on that you'll have friendly tea-time chats with america's enemies as soon as you obtain the office of the president..why is he threating our only friend in that area before he gets in office? Bold political foreign policy moves? or amateur hour?
PeterUk..best be careful..Obama mama may be getting ready to slap Brown up side the head next week being the strong leader he is..
His handlers are poring over Kennedy's run for tips:
To paraphase ' sir, i knew kennedy, he was my friend..you sir, are not jack Kennedy'
BTW..Zoe is a hot name...

PeterUK

""The brown people"? Yes, Pakistan is one undifferentiated mass of brownness, you British colonialist."

Which tribe do you belong to Zoe?

MikeS

So the new plan is to chat with our enemies and threaten our allies? Well the man said he was for change.

I'm beginning to think the clothes have no emperor.

PeterUK

HH,
I don't give a shit about Brown.

Cecil Turner

An invasion of Pakistan would likely be a disaster, but the threat of one . . .

Isn't credible. A landing isn't feasible, so an invasion can't "get off the dime." Again, there are several ways to threaten Musharraf, if that's the goal. A troop buildup isn't one of them.

You're simply distorting the speech.

Actually, Ms Pickler did that. "Invasion" is not a technical military term, so it's not subject to a precise meaning in that sense. However, the first definition in most dictionaries is something like:

The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer. [emphasis added]
So when one uses that word in a context of a military incursion, the expectation is of the classic meaning. Besides if what she meant was "raid," there is a technical military definition for that one:
(DOD) An operation to temporarily seize an area in order to secure information, confuse an adversary, capture personnel or equipment, or to destroy a capability. It ends with a planned withdrawal upon completion of the assigned mission.
That's obviously what Obama meant--assuming he stuck to the script--but that's not what the AP reported. Maybe Ms Pickler is a Hillary! fan?

lurker9876

Didn't Obama say something idiotic about John Howard a year ago?

PaulV

Good point Zoe, Obama gets no respect from international community so he has to rage like a lunatic to hope to make an impression. W is more effective lifting an eyelid than Obama is with all his blustering words of war. Ask Libya's dicator about that.

hit and run

Joe Biden says:

WASHINGTON (CNN) — A few hours after Sen. Barack Obama unveiled his plan to combat terrorism worldwide on Wednesday, Sen. Joe Biden’s campaign criticized him for saying too little, too late.

“We find it a little disingenuous that Sen. Obama is hailing this as a new bold initiative when he has neglected to join his colleagues in the Senate when the opportunities have been there to redirect our forces into Afghanistan,” Biden’s campaign manager, Luis Navarro, said in a statement. “It’s good to see Sen. Obama has finally arrived at the right position, but this can hardly be considered bold leadership.”

In a press release, Biden’s campaign called Obama’s speech a “Johnny-come-lately position.” The release stated that Biden has “already initiated or accomplished” most of the propositions listed in Obama’s speech. Biden’s campaign also said Obama didn’t ask tough enough questions during a Senate Foreign Relations hearing on the troop surge in Iraq.


Obama’s campaign declined to comment engage in diplomacy.

(note: slight editing of last sentence mine)

Pofarmer

Didn't Obama say something idiotic about John Howard a year ago

It's getting kinda hard to keep track.

MikeS

Rather than threaten Pakistan, I'd station a Pakistani officer near our UAV command posts. At the appropriate time they could be invited inside to fire the missiles.

Pofarmer

The release stated that Biden has “already initiated or accomplished” most of the propositions listed in Obama’s speech.

Biden has been handling foreign relations and war strategy? Who knew?

TerryeL

The point Zoe, is that if Bush said anything remotely like it he would be called Hitler.

Obama is trying to look tough so that people will not think he is a big weenie.

Meanwhile, he is completely ignoring the fact that our operations in Afghanistan are part of NATO, we have explicit rules of engagement in regards to that operation and there is no doubt that if Bush could just send in a cruise missile and take out Zawhiri he would.

Obama seems to be completely unaware of what is involved here and for the life of me I do not understand handing Iraq to AlQaida on a silver platter while we undertake socalled incursions into Pakistan. What if the leadership runs off Iraq. After all, it would not be the first time terrorists from Afghanistan or Pakistan ran off to Iraq. Would we opt to ignore them?

LindaK

The reason why Obama's remarks sound contradictory is that his understanding of the ME and the strategy in Iraq and Iran is 1 mm deep. And it doesn't matter. Because he is selling himself to a group of voters who know less than he does. As long as his positions are contrary to the administrations, they love him.

He's been selling his story since college very successfully. His political persona has always been the phoney hope trope. This is an utterly self-absorbed guy who is never going to get some real life executive experience running something and making decisions that effect outcomes.

On the subject of Al Goracle, I argee with the earlier poster -- he does look like he is recently released from institutional care. He's the preacher of global gloom if we don't follow the "true way." Since losing the race in 2000 and making the concession speach, he doesn't seem he cares about the implications of what he says. In Saudi Arabia, he dumps on the US. Elsewhere his public utterances are often nutty and almost out of control. Anyhow, think he can shed 200 pounds?

SteveMG

Well, in defense (partial) of Obama, the AP did mangle a lot of what he would do as president. Or says he would do as president.

Surprise, surprise. Just an awful news organization.

Anyway, no chance in hell that a President Obama would attack al-Qaeda in Pakistan without the approval of Musharraf.

None.

He's posturing.

SMG

HoosierHoops

Elsewhere his public utterances are often nutty and almost out of control. Anyhow, think he can shed 200 pounds?

Well linda.. A few less stacks of pancakes every day with do wonders for ones carbon footprint..

PeterUK: Wasn't trying to rattle your chain..just trying to make a point about Obama's foreign policy moves..

hit and run

Cecil:
Actually, Ms Pickler did that. "Invasion" is not a technical military term, so it's not subject to a precise meaning in that sense.

The Cap'n points out that the Nedra Pickler article is featured on Obama's website, the one using the word invasion.

It may be that that was the only article to go with at the time, or they didn't "fact check" the article before posting it or whatever, but there is at least an implicit acceptance of her version by running it on his website. Or a whiff of an implicit accepance. Or hint of a whiff of an implicit acceptance.

PeterUK

HH,
Didn't think you were,but this one is as bad as the last,he is about to sell us down the river to the EU.

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