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August 22, 2007

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kim

The cognitive dissonance of Bush Derangement Syndrome is finally coming home to roost. The Democrats make no sense.
===================

kim

In Sistani We Trust. And Chalabi. And Allawi.
============================================

Pofarmer

Well damn, no posts for days and now I post in the wrong thread. I'll just post it everywhere, most of you have probably already seen or heard it anyway.

Well, this seemed rather inevitable

Via Drudge

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) - Iraq's prime minister lashed out at American criticism, saying Wednesday that no one has a right to put timetables on his elected government.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki blamed the U.S. presidential campaign for the recent tough words from the Bush administration and from other American politicians.

"No one has the right to place timetables on the Iraq government. It was elected by its people," he said at a news conference in Damascus at the end of a three-day visit to Syria.
I'm surprised it's taken this long.

Neo

It's the simple traducement of the next available victim.

Ann

I hope some of you are watching President Bush making "major speech" on Iraq. He just laid down the gauntlet!!

SunnyDay

Ann - Yes, he did!!

Sue

I can't watch it. What did he say?

Paul Zrimsek

Does that Jnotshon guy who was here yesterday ever write for the Guradian?

hit and run

Sue, I don't think there is a full transcript yet, but NRO posted some excerpts from his speech as prepared for delivery...

I didn't see it either...some excerpts from NROs excerpts:

Three decades later, there is a legitimate debate about how we got into the Vietnam War and how we left. Whatever your position in that debate, one unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America’s withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms like “boat people,” “re-education camps,” and “killing fields.”
...
There was another price to our withdrawal from Vietnam, and we can hear it in the words of the enemy we face in today’s struggle – al Qaeda. In an interview with a Pakistani paper after the Nine Eleven attacks, Bin Laden declared that “the American people had risen against their government’s war in Vietnam. They must do the same today.” ...Here at home, some can argue our withdrawal from Vietnam carried no price to American credibility – but the terrorists see things differently.
...
There is one group of people who understand the stakes: our men and women in uniform. … And today they are carrying out a surge that is helping bring former Sunni insurgents into the fight against Al Qaeda, clearing the terrorists out of population centers, and giving families in liberated Iraqi cities their first look at decent and normal life. Our troops are seeing this progress on the ground. And as they take the initiative from the enemy, they have a question: Will their elected leaders in Washington pull the rug out from under them just as they are gaining momentum and changing the dynamic on the ground in Iraq? My answer is clear: We will support our troops, we will support our commanders, and we will give them everything they need to succeed.

Sue

Rush is playing excerpts. Very nicely done, Mr. President.

Pofarmer

I can hear the "Administration has no credibility" soundbites in 3-2-1

Sue

Hmmm...very interesting...http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_082107/content/01125106.guest.html>A Short Flight to Wyoming For Dinner. And someone we all know and love, including Rush, just returned from Wyoming. I. Don't. Believe. In. Coincidences.

kim

It's a big sky and a big country, but people follow their noses to good cooks.
=====================================

kim

The new CIA report is a big hit on the Clintonistas.
===============================

HoosierHoops

Kim
I think the report was more damning of the CIA than the executive branch..
Also this stood out..
Yet the review team led by Inspector General John Helgerson found neither a "single point of failure nor a silver bullet" that would have stopped the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.

kim

They couldn't find what Berger purloined.
==========================

Extraneus

Well at least Reid's still bailing:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., quickly dismissed Bush's position.

"President Bush's attempt to compare the war in Iraq to past military conflicts in East Asia ignores the fundamental difference between the two," he said. "Our nation was misled by the Bush administration in an effort to gain support for the invasion of Iraq under false pretenses, leading to one of the worst foreign policy blunders in our history."

This comparison to Vietnam must get them madder than the carrier landing.

kim

I was able to ignore the Cambodians for thirty years. No longer.
=======================================

kim

I thank God Kerry was nominated in '04; otherwise I might still be ignoring the Cambodians.
===============

HoosierHoops

Sounds to me Bush finally found a decent speechwriter. Hopefully the one writing for the last 4 years is unemployed.
I don't blame GW for this..but there is a leason to be learned from having a great spin machine..esp. during time of war.
Daily briefings, Positive messages, proactive military news and assessments..
a daily counter of the pessimism of the left..It's a full time job and a 21st century requirement.

hit and run

Extraneus:
This comparison to Vietnam must get them madder than the carrier landing.

From Bush's speech today:

“Ultimately, the United States prevailed in World War II, and we have fought two more land wars in Asia.”


That's what's so funny! Those fools! They fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in an argument about land wars in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Texan when victory in a war is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...

Extraneus

Never saw it, but I liked this line:

Count Rugen: [Inigo stands up after getting stabbed by a knife thrown by Count Rugen] Good heavens. Are you still trying to win?

Pofarmer

Give Reid points for consistency I guess. Is he ever gonna take Clinton and Kerry and Edwards to task for their lies?

clarice

Sue, it wasn't me. I was busy trying to keep my granddaughter from destroying the restaurant. (We did have a great time in Wyoming. She (2 y.o.) cried at the rodeo--insisting she knew how to ride horses and why wouldnt we let her participate? But then she settled down and clapped and cheered like the true cowgirl she is. She also loved bungee jumping at Teton Village,swimming in ice cold Jackson Lake, petting the horses at the stable and taking the gondola ride up SnowKing and riding the 1/2 mile slide down. In about ten years I'm moving and getting an unlisted number--

hit and run

With regard to Reid, and with apologies to Bernard Baruch and Molly Ivins...


When all you have is a shovel, everything looks like the first rule of holes doesn't apply.

megapotamus

Reid's beef comes apart immediately. Weren't we supposedly "lied" into Viet Nam? Does he not remember the Gulf of Tonkin or does he believe that US warships were attacked by NVN speedboats with RPGs? The problem, rhetorically, for these nuts is that they are forever unmoored from anything like consistency, decency or simply reality. This was on harsh display with Kerry, lying YET AGAIN about Viet Nam. But even Commies have to admit that, yessir, there WAS a bloodbath and a damned nasty one even by bloodbath standards. They knew it at the time and it was fine and dandy because it forwarded the Revolution. Who would have thunk the Rev would fail to materialize and these Marxist skunks would actually be around, elected, and needing to alter reality so profoundly? Never again, friends and foes. Never again.

hit and run

Clarice:
and taking the gondola ride up SnowKing


My brother once ran the snack bar on top of Snow King. Leased it from Snow King Resort for a buck a year. Couldn't make a profit though.

He also lived on the top in the ski patrol cabin in the summer.

Dadgummit. I know I've told this story before, but my google trials and tribulations continue.

Anyway, the lift would close in the afternoon -- and he would sometimes spend the evenings at a bar in town -- and then have to hike to the top, sometimes in the dark, after doing what you would expect a member of the hit and run extended family to do when at a bar.

Pofarmer

Maybe Reid should go after those miners in Utah?

clarice

HIT, I can't imagine how he made it to the top. In Saya's case, she figured going to the top of the mountain improved her chances of finding the pink balloon which had slipped out of her grasp months before and floated off.

Rick Ballard

"In about ten years I'm moving and getting an unlisted number--"

The focus will be a little different in ten years. I've found that walking three miles five times a week allows me to pace a twelve year old pretty easily. Of course, I do encourage them to "run over there, take a look and come back and tell grandpa about it". Keep 'em running - it's good for them.

hit and run

improved her chances of finding the pink balloon which had slipped out of her grasp months before and floated off.


Oh gosh, when hit and run jr was 2, we had gotten a balloon at the grocery store. We then stopped to get some gas, and I instinctively rolled down the windows before turning off the car. Sure enough, his balloon slipped out the window and didn't look back as it hurried to its new-found freedom.

To this day, hit and run jr will not let us get him a balloon at the grocery store - and will not allow a balloon from anywhere into the car.

Scarred him for life, I did.

Sue

In about ten years I'm moving and getting an unlisted number--

Now why don't I believe you? ::grin::

PaulL

***Yet the review team led by Inspector General John Helgerson found neither a "single point of failure nor a silver bullet" that would have stopped the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.***

I'm not sure what Helgerson is saying here, or trying to pull. So, not ONE thing caused it and not ONE thing could have prevented it--meaning, it would seem, that MANY things were wrong. Who ever claimed that just ONE thing was the matter?

Topsecretk9

Hi all - this is a stray thought, but I wanted to say how amused I've been watching the left and Greenwald's downgrade the "experts" - you know the lefties at the Brooking's Institute who dare say the truth - there is progress in Iraq - so NOW lefties no longer like experts...

...Yeah, the same brainchildren who trot out 3 year CIA stint in the 90's Larry Johnson as an "expert" on all things CIA and terrorism - the man who wrote months before 9-11 there was NO terror threat. Hey, considering Larry's embarassing editorial -- maybe he is an expert on the CIA - an living expert on CIA clueless incompetence on terror.

HEH. Carry on.

Sara

AUDIO of President Bush speech to the VFW convention

clarice

Good tips, Rick and HIT, but when the wild girl hits the papers in about 10 years, remember I warned you. Stay away from Venice Beach and keep your loved ones away, too.


If what Helgerson says was news to anyone, I'd like to meet that guy --in fact, I'm bringing PUK along to close the deals with him.
Yes, TS--"experts"--what would we do without them? And blue dog Dems, what will the nutroots do WITH them?

Jane

Maybe Reid should go after those miners in Utah?

That would clearly be the comment of the day if it wasn't just so low.

hit and run

Timber!

LIHUE, Hawaii - Bette Midler cut down more than 230 trees around one of her properties on the island of Kauai without a permit, and the state has recommended she be fined.

The staff of the Board of Land and Natural Resources recommended $6,500 in fines for having the trees felled and for building a graded road without permits required for the land zoned for conservation use.

You may think she would be extremely embarrassed, as a liberal, to have done that kind of damage by killing these carbon sequestering living beings.

Eh, she may be.

But don't think those fines will cost her anything...

The singer and actress ... will follow a replanting program, her attorney Max W. J. Graham said.

She'll be filing for those reforestation tax credits I was angling for yesterday!

Conservation Violation Offets

HoosierHoops

BERKLEY CA. (AP)
Larry Johnson, who had a distiguished 3 year career in the CIA is leading a prominent panel tonight at UC Berkley on solving global warming.
Among the topics discussed will be:
Solving the root problems..Cow Genocide now and
Transference of carbon based heat..Hug that tree now.
Johnson, a storied writer, NFL running back, public speaker, 300 game winner for the Cubs, an oft guest on CNN and an all american expert in everything will be charging only 17.50 per attendee for this once in a lifetime opportunity.
plan to attend at 7:30 pm

Sue

Top & Kim,

I got banned (or so he said, I could still post after he said it) last night at Scary's. He didn't really like the CIA report because it didn't blame Michael Scheuer by name. The root of all evil at the CIA, apparently.

clarice

fedora, that wonderful researcher who posts at FR--has done a bang up job on Clinton in Moscow.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1884984/posts?page=2#2

I'm not sure how to use this, but it's interesting reading.

Neo

Baghdad, 22 August (AKI) - The leader of Iraq's banned Baath party, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, has decided to join efforts by the Iraqi authorities to fight al-Qaeda, one of the party's former top officials, Abu Wisam al-Jashaami, told pan-Arab daily Al Hayat.

"AlDouri has decided to sever ties with al-Qaeda and sign up to the programme of the national resistance, which includes routing Islamist terrorists and opening up dialogue with the Baghdad government and foreign forces," al-Jashaami said.

Al-Douri has decided to deal directly with US forces in Iraq, according to al-Jashaami. He figures in the 55-card deck of "most wanted" officials from the former Iraqi regime issued by the US government.

Rick Ballard

"I'm not sure how to use this"

It's like The Beast's senior thesis from Wellesley. Copy and keep for the right moment. Not that there will be an ammunition shortage. The Dems are loading up a train with 20 baggage cars, a caboose and no engine.

This is gonna be better than Magic Hat.

Nick Kasoff

Well just remember, Senator Kerry was for the war before he was against the war. Or was he against the war before he was for the war? Well, in any case, we know that Senator Clinton supported the war, but she is against it now because President Bush is blowing the war, even if we might be winning now. Yep.

Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report

PeterUK

"Daily briefings, Positive messages, proactive military news and assessments.."An uphill task with an antagonistic and mendacious media,all the MSM reported was the next "Grim milestone".
The mistake the President made was to believe that these people would support the national interest rather than indulge in sectional partisanship.

PaulL

I call for Sen. Clinton to resign.

Deagle

Hey Tom,

You really don't have to wait until there are 200 posts on a subject (or others since they seem to run out of ideas on the posted subject) before starting another... I really enjoy both your posts and the comments, but have to check back only infrequently since you not at prolific as you shoud be... Hey, get on the ball...

Okay, I understand your reasons...family, time, etc. but enough is enough...get with it! heh.

PeterUK

Mr Ballard,
You might wish to add this the reading list,"Know thine enemy".

Ann

PUK,

"Know thine enemy"

Warning: Get a kleenex

KNOW THINE ENEMY

Ann

PUK,

Sorry, bad link, go to:

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/189136.php

clarice

Yup, Rick..It's tucked in a safe place.

hoosierhoops

Ring..Ring
HH: Hello
male voice: Do you know who this is?
HH: ummm. no
MV: I did not appreciate what you wrote about me on JOM today..
HH: Larry..is that you?
MV: Never mind who this is..
HH: Larry, I got a good barber...want the number?
MV: Hey! I know where you live..
HH: It's in the phone book..
MV: Look we CIA people can make you're life hell!
HH: Worse than 6 kids?
MV: ...mmm well no..but damnit..i can haunt you...
HH: Like Seixon?
MV: Worse than that..i made him pee his pants..
HH: Over in Europe?
MV: Look..hoopster..stop making fun of me..
I had a distinguished 3 year career in the CIA.
HH: 20 years D.O.D...so does that mean I had 6 distinguished careers?
MV: I hate you...
____________________________________
Look Larry..this was all fiction..just like about everything you have blogged about and spewed on CNN..If ya really don't know what you are talking about..shut the hell up.
3 years in the CIA..shut the hell up...we called you people short timers..didn't even finish your training in 3 years..You probably delivered coffee for Val Plame.
____________________________________
Can he sue me? :)

Ring ring..
uh oh....
Hello?
____________________

clarice

HEH!

Sue

I'm still posting at Scary's, so I guess he satisfied himself with just deleting my posts.

Ann

Clarice,

Welcome Back. We missed ya!

For some reason, we all behave better when you are around. :)

Cecil Turner

Well, the impetus to change course was obvious. Per Gallup: Congress Approval Rating Matches Historical Low. As to the new "focus" in naysaying goes, it's a change of form, but little of substance. At most, it's a hedge against the possibility the Dems will not be able to force a military loss by default.

On the "this is particularly rich" front, Andrew Sullivan is apparently taking Victor Davis Hanson to task for being changeable on the war. Other than the obvious irony, the part that disappointed me most was to find VDH was still reading Sully. Thought he was more sensible than that . . .

clarice

Thanks, Ann.
If I cared about Sully, I'd have long ago needlepointed a "Oh would some power the giftie gie us..."pillow for him. He takes self-delusion to new heights.

Ann

Sue,

I knew I liked you because you listen to RUSH, love Cerulean, and you are brave enough to fight at Scary Larry's.


Ann

Sue,

Ok, you are really brave.
I just went over to Scary's and had to leave after reading a few comments like:

...Bush and Cheney's first order of business was to distract Bill Clinton in the White House by putting the Israeli spy Monica Lewinsky onto him

...Valerie Plame followed a script..her role was designed and defined by the Bushies to be a distraction agent

I don't know if I should laugh or cry, these people vote!

Topsecretk9

Sue -- I noticed that Larry didn't know how to ban yet - that was pretty funny. You're holding back though::wink::

--------

Reason why I will never vote for a Democrat again - ever

National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell pulled the curtain back on previously classified details of government surveillance and of a secretive court whose recent rulings created new hurdles for the Bush administration as it tries to prevent terrorism.

McConnell's comments—made in an interview with the El Paso (Texas) Times last week and posted as a transcript on the newspaper's Web site Wednesday—raised eyebrows for their frank discussion of previously classified eavesdropping work conducted under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA. Among the disclosures:

—McConnell said it takes 200 hours to assemble a FISA warrant on a single telephone number. "We're going backwards," he said. "We couldn't keep up."

—Offering never-disclosed figures, McConnell also revealed that fewer than 100 people inside the United States are monitored under FISA warrants. However, he said, thousands of people overseas are monitored.

...In a phone interview, Michigan Rep. Peter Hoekstra said he never felt at liberty to discuss some of the information that McConnell did, including the FISA court rulings, but the executive branch gets to decide what is classified. "What I think it tells you is how important they believe it is to get this FISA thing done right," said Hoekstra, the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee.

He said McConnell is hurt by the personal attacks on him during the FISA recent debate. Among them, Democrats have alleged that he negotiated in bad faith and was too beholden to the White House.

In addition, Hoekstra said he thinks McConnell wanted to push back on accusations that the legislation gave the attorney general unprecedented new powers. "I think they felt they had to become more public," he said.

So Hoekstra basically just tells us that Democrats have known this and most have been L Y I N G - no wonder so many actually did vote to extend it...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8R6CB100&show_article=1

Topsecretk9

Valerie Plame followed a script..her role was designed and defined by the Bushies to be a distraction agent

Scary's crazies are posting Valerie is actually in cahoots with Bush...wah?

TexasToast

Cecil

That "low" is because they aren't ending this war. Force a "military loss"? The consensus seems to be that the ultimate "win" is in the political realm - not the military - and, as evidenced by the VFW speech, our political leaders are utterly clueless ......

Topsecretk9

Shoot - meant to say - FEWER THAN A 100??????

Topsecretk9

Ceceil

To be fair to VDH, I bet he was inundated with emails alerting him to Sully's ever more embarrassing blog (and posts).

----

this just sets my heart a flutter and puts a great big smile on my face...


The Bush administration plans to screen thousands of people who work with charities and nonprofit organizations that receive U.S. Agency for International Development funds to ensure they are not connected with individuals or groups associated with terrorism, according to a recent Federal Register notice.

The plan would require the organizations to give the government detailed information about key personnel, including phone numbers, birth dates and e-mail addresses. But the government plans to shroud its use of that information in secrecy and does not intend to tell groups deemed unacceptable why they are rejected.

The plan has aroused concern and debate among some of the larger U.S. charitable organizations and recipients of AID funding. Officials of InterAction, representing 165 foreign aid groups, said last week that the plan would impose undue burdens and has no statutory basis. The organization requested that it be withdrawn...

The plan has aroused concern and debate among some of the larger U.S. charitable organizations and recipients of AID funding? Why? Because they want to protect their terrorist employees and associates? Or they know they associate with them and don't want taxpayers funding pulled?

Well, anyways that's the point - it should concern organizations - they won't get our money if they are associating with terrorists - boo hoo.

I bet we end up saving billions.

Extraneus
Cecil Turner

That "low" is because they aren't ending this war.

Sure it is. I guess you could make an argument that--having given up on everyone to the right of Comrade Stalin's Ghost (good book by the way)--Congress's real problems stem from the fact they're being deserted by their base. Greenwald wasn't shy about it:

-- the overall ratings for Congress are so low because Democrats disapprove of the Democratic Congress almost as much as Republicans do.
And provided a recipe: more investigations! But Greenwald's own figures show the lowest rating is by independents, who also show the biggest swing. Not sure I'd "press-to-test" on that one.

Force a "military loss"? The consensus seems to be that the ultimate "win" is in the political realm - not the military . . .

If the politicos force a military withdrawal, what chances do you give of a "political" win? And do you think the Islamists will claim it as a military victory (with some justification)? Vietnam analogies, anyone? The political naysayers may not be able to ensure a victory, but they certainly can force a defeat.

Moreover, this argument is disingenuous. Those arguing for a pullout aren't claiming it'll result in a "win" of any sort . . . and obviously don't want to win. They are finding, however, that openly rooting for (or worse, engineering) a loss is a bit problematic, politically. As it should be.

DukeDigger

David Brinkley (Biographies your way) said there was NO parallel between Vietnam withdrawal and an Iraqi withdrawal. I tend to agree, it won’t be North Vietnamese communists doing the killing in Iraq.

hit and run

Sue, there may be very few moment in which we can take pride in the Rangers, so this is to be savored


Texas                AB   R H RBI BB SO LOB AVG
Catalanotto, 1B   6   2   3   2   2   1   0   .267
Kinsler, 2B          7   3   3   2   1   0   4   .249
Young, SS          5   1   2   0   0   0   5   .303
 Metcalf, 3B        1   2   1   4   1   0   0   .238
Byrd, CF             5   4   2   4   2   1   1   .318
Botts, DH            7   2   3   2   0   4   1   .234
Cruz, RF             7   2   2   0   0   2   5   .220
Murphy, LF          7   5   5   2   0   1   1   .550
Saltalamacchia, C 6   5   4   7   1   1   2   .262
Vazquez, 3B-SS    6   4   4   7   1   1   0   .240
Totals                 57  30  29  30  8  11  19

hit and run

Texas Toast:
That "low" is because they aren't ending this war.

First, you a Rangers fan?

Second, my (surely flawed) analysis of a recent poll on congressional approval here led me to this conclusion:

So, 32 people out of 1,003 disapprove of Congress because they want the Dems to stand up to Bush on Iraq.

Sounds like a mandate.

With all the caveats that I only do back of the napkin calculations, I made inferences that may not be valid, and didn't spend that much time trying to be precise, since this is the bowels of the comments of someone else's blog, and I have more important things to do, like make jokes....so, take it with a grain of salt, or for what it's worth, or put it in the "you get what you pay for category", or hey look, a squirrel!.....

Sue

H&R,

Looking around the blogosphere, we are still the Rodney Dangerfield of baseball. But, yeah, it was a nice moment. Since I think our only other claim to records is losing more games than any other team in the history of baseball. ::sigh::

NancyM

The Dems are absolutely shameless. They have spent the last few years saying, as Swimmer Kennedy did, that Iraq is "George Bush's Vietnam". And now that BUSH makes the comparison (a valid one IMHO), that a pullout in Iraq would get the same results as the pullout from Vietnam, they scream "oh, no it's NOT like Vietnam in THAT way". Jean Fracois Kerry said, before the pullout in Vietnam, that there would be no bloodbath. I'm sure that 2 million+ Vietnamese and Cambodians would argue about that, if they weren't dead. Why should we believe him, or any of the Dems, now? Answer: we shouldn't!

hit and run

Sorry to bore anyone not interested, but more from that Rangers game. It is but a fleeting moment, but I will make sure it is shiny.

Score was 30-3.

--Texas manager Ron Washington, auditioning for understatement of the year, said, "Tonight there were some balls thrown across the plate and we put them in play,"

--The Rangers set a team record for runs scored in a doubleheader -- before the second game even started.

--They finished with more runs (30) than outs made (27).

--Wes Littleton earned his second career save, despite the 30-3 score.

--The Rangers moved to only 18 games behind the first place Angels in the West Division and a mere 16 games out of the race for the wild card in the American League. Surge!

--The Yankees only managed 8 runs over the Angels

--The Red Sox lost, scoring 1 measly run against the Devil Rays, the only team in the American League with a worse record than the Rangers.

Sue

Ann,

I don't know if I should laugh or cry, these people vote!

I think the person who left those comments was a spoof. The usual posters there are very pro-Plame, because dear leader himself won't let anyone post, for very long, who isn't. But the ones who are real scare me even more. There are some really weird people who hang with Larry, as one would expect.

Pofarmer

I think H&R's got it right. The low approval numbers are the "voted for change" moderates expressing buyers remorse.

hit and run

From Mark Steyn, on the Corner, quoting an article and giving his response:

Inspectors began documenting the buildup of pigeon dung on the span near downtown Minneapolis two decades ago.

Experts say the corrosive guano deposited all over the Interstate 35W span's framework helped the steel beams rust faster.

We need to bring the troops back from Iraq to shoot all the birds.

My response to Steyn?

Oh you're nothing but a damn bloodthirsty pigeonhawk.

The Patagioenas is a Genus of Peace.

We must ask ourselves, "Why do they hate us?"

By going after the pigeons, we will only be making more of them hate us.

The rebuilding effort is a quagmire. We should redeploy immediately.

Jane

OT: Don Surber has a great post up today about how Clinton lied when he said he ordered bin Laden killed. The latest CIA report says otherwise. If you read it, see if you agree with me that there is an error in the last paragraph - Saddam Hussein should read bin Laden.

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2007/08/23/clinton-lied-people-died/

Extraneus

I agree, Jane.

Walter

She'll be filing for those reforestation tax credits I was angling for yesterday!

I used to work with a tax attorney who swore he filed a Schedule F (warning, pdf) to account for the bonzai trees he kept on his desk in his office.

bio mom

David Brinkley has forfeited the right to call himself an historian. He is a partisan pundit and John Kerry hagiographer. A regular on Hardball and other Bush-bashing programs.

kim

J&E, see 'Study of Revenge'.
==========================

Ann

Speaking of Hardball, Ari Fleischer was on last night and the video has been posted at:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/

Fleischer on Vietnam-Iraq in Bush speech


My opinion of Ari soured over the Plame thing,
but I was wondering if anyone here thinks he made Barnacle look silly and hope he appears on more shows.

Jane

Surber answered the question I left in the comments about Hussein and says he is correct - that 1993 was a Hussein project. I don't know why but that is news to me.

Extraneus

Guess I should have waited before agreeing with you, then. :-)

It says here it was a group including the convicted "blind sheikh" Omar Abdel-Rahman, who got money from bin Laden's own Khaled Shaikh Mohammed.

Ann

Jane,

Laurie Mylroie has written revealing and important books on the ties between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. Another book to read is:
BUSH VS. THE BELTWAY.

I always thought she was brilliant. I don't know what happened to her since her last book.
She distrusted the intelligence establishment and the Washington bureaucracy; so she probably got run out of town!

Interestingly, she also wrote a book with Judith Miller!! (SADDAM HUSSEIN AND THE CRISIS IN THE GULF)

Jane

That's how I always understood it too Extraneous and I remember reading about the trial in NY of bin Laden in abstentia, and Clinton's refusal to get him when offered. (But it is indeed very possible that I'm mixing stuff up.) Surber links to a book that says it was Hussein. And who am I to quibble with that?!

kim

It's Laura Mylroi's book, and I'm trying to read within it without much luck.
====================================

Cecil Turner

Here's a good overview of the connections game with Iraq, OK City and the 1993 WTC bombing. Probably the best evidence is one of the bombmakers, Yasin, whose involvement is undeniable, but Saddam's sponsorship . . . not so much. It's all a bit thin, but certainly suggestive. Bottom line is that we never had them penetrated to the degree it'd take to know for sure . . . and still don't.

clarice

Laurie's a friend of mine. She is brilliant and she did suffer greatly for pointing out what the intel agencies missed. And a lot of what she said has been unfairly disregarded--for example the claim that all these folks are related (and still no DNA test even of those in our custidy). She thinks they are Baluchis who were working with Iraqi intel.

Did you know that because of the Gorelick wall the CIA never knew what the FBI found out about the WTC bombers connection to AQ? That no one from there even went to the courthouse to read what was in those files after the case was completed and the files publicly available?
That the mastermind of the WTC bombing who left the country for Iraq after duping the yeggs ti return the truck etc so they'd be caught was probably an Iraqi agent using the I.D. of a Kuwaiti who was probably killed when Iraq invaded Kuwait and yet we never interviewed the UK teachers of the Kuwaiti or asked them to look at the guy after we captured him?

hit and run

HR just called. Said they got a call from IT claiming I am surfing porn at work.

Confused, I went back and tried to figure out what in the world they could be talking about.

I may have cracked the case...

Cecil:
thin, but certainly suggestive...Bottom...penetrated

Jane

Clarice,

Good to have you back. You were missed. So do you share Mylroie's thesis. And do think the bombing had no ties to al Qaeda?

RichatUF

from the WaPo article [sorry if I'm interupting the thread]

The leading Democratic candidates for the White House have fallen into line with the campaign to praise military progress while excoriating Iraqi leaders for their unwillingness to reach political accommodations that could end the sectarian warfare.

How would I go about researching if the DNC has done some internal polling and focus groups to come up with the autumn's talking points? I find the shift too mechanical.

Ann

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMB:
Who is Ramzi Yousef? And Why It Matters

by Laurie Mylroie

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/956-tni.htm

Topsecretk9

Clarice

I wonder if there is a connection to Sandy Berger's light sentence and the NSA leaker office in DOJ...I know that Peter Lance's book details major problems with DOJ and such

I know we don't know what Berger took, but clearly it could do with the wall- and ignored information via DOJ and the wall

clarice

I share her belief that Iraqi intel was involved. I don't know that she discounts completely the notion that they were working with AQ.
As to 9/11 edwardjayepstein has done the best job on Atta in Prague--I think the CIA is all wet in discounting he met with Iraqi intel before 9/11--they do so ONLY because the FBI said his cell phone had been used in Fla when Czech intel says he was in Prague. Since anyone can use a cell phone, including his roommate, I find this insufficient reason to discount the Czech report, and I am suspicious of the many efforts to deny the strength of the Czech report.

Topsecretk9

--I find the shift too mechanical.--

Me too. They are in a conundrum though - sane majority who decide elections vs. crazy fanatic base that punish them

clarice

ts, I don't know. I do know that there were a number of people in DoJ (incluing Comey) who to my mind viewed the OVP as Mongols who were stepping on their turf, people with a mandarinate-like attachment to nit picky legalistic nonsense over substance.

Topsecretk9

--they do so ONLY because the FBI said his cell phone had been used in Fla when Czech intel says he was in Prague. Since anyone can use a cell phone, including his roommate, I find this insufficient reason to discount the Czech report, and I am suspicious of the many efforts to deny the strength of the Czech report.--

What do you bet they (terrorists) knew about the NSA program? I am of the mind that there are and were a few moles.

Bill in AZ

Ramzi Yousef, WTC93, etc - one common person in a whole bunch of this - and interestingly I could not find a single reference to him in that long article - is Patrick J Fitzgerald and SDNY. Fitz didn't need Gorelicks wall. He built a maze of walls thousands of feet tall just to make sure no one could see any dots to connect.

kim

Was Berger also already working for Kerry? Maybe instead of protecting Bill, he was promoting the meme that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, and what he stole confirmed it. Speculation.

Historians are going to speculate. Psycologically, Berger stooping to steal, reverberates. Why did he do it?

I think questions are going to get closer and closer to Hillary about this. They'll have to respond.
================================

clarice

The intel agencis had every reason to try to deny--no matter how implausibly--any Iraqi connection to the WTC bombing and 9/11, and in my view, they did so no matter that it clouded the public view of why we had to get rid of Saddam.
I find , as does Mylroie, that these were false flag operations, involving the kind of coordination only a national intel operation could provide...from passports to training facilities to contacts overseas to financing.

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Wilson/Plame