"Be A Man"

If Republicans cheered blue skies and a sunny day, Josh Marshall would pen a screed decrying rising rates of skin cancer.  However, this reflexive oppositionalism can lead him to some odd places, as for example, his latest blast (actually, blasts) directed at those who objected to the news that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran *might* be visiting Ground Zero while attending the United Nations.  Here we go:

Grow Up

Am I the only one embarrassed by the dingbat brouhaha over Iranian President Ahmadinejad's attempt to visit Ground Zero to lay a wreath? Given relations between our countries I could see denying him a visa, but as long as we're hosting the UN that's not an option. Ahmadinejad now says he's "amazed" that such a visit would be insulting to Americans. Sen. McCain said that Ahmadinejad should be "physically restrained if necessary" from visiting the site.  The National Review's Kathryn Lopez got worked up in such a lather that she begged Rudy Giuliani to "lead a human blockade keeping Ahmadinejad from getting to Ground Zero" -- thus demonstrating once and for all Rudy's true calling as the surrogate id of right-wing nerds everywhere.

"Dingbat"?  C'mon, it's "moonbat" or "wingnut".  Or is this actually a bipartisan swipe?  His list of opponents failed to include Hillary Clinton, still the leading Dem candidate for the Presidency, who issued this statement:

It is unacceptable for Iranian President Ahmadinejad, who refuses to renounce and end his own country’s support of terrorism, to visit the site of the deadliest terrorist attack on American soil in our nation’s history.

Barack Obama said that Ground Zero "must not be a backdrop for President Ahmadinejad to posture", which I infer to be opposition.  I have not yet ascertained the view of Elizabeth Edwards.

Let's continue with Dr. Marshall's careful analysis:

So what's the problem exactly? Presumably we can be frank enough to acknowledge that the real issue here is that while Ahmadinejad is not Arab to most of us he looks pretty Arab. And he is Muslim certainly -- and pretty up in arms about it at that. And we officially don't like him. And we classify the country he runs as a state sponsor of terrorism. So even though he has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, when you put all these key facts together, he might as well have done it himself. And what business does anyone with the blood of the victims of 9/11 on his hands have going to Ground Zero?

That's basically it and don't tell me it's not.

He "looks Arab"?  For heaven's sake - by that subtle reasoning Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan looks Arab, too, but he was allowed to give an address at Ground Zero.

As to the rest, well, yes, the fact that Iran, as a leading sponsor of terror, would cheer if Hezbollah did to Tel Aviv what Al Qaeda did to Manhattan does create a bit of awkwardness.  For a bit of perspective let's cut to Hillary's observation from the July YouTube debate when she opined that offering photo ops and propaganda coups to Chavez, Castro and  Ahmadinejad would be a mistake.  Does anyone doubt that allowing Ahmadinejad to pose as a foe of terrorism while the US is trying to rally world opinion against him would send a bit of a mixed message?

And when Dr. Marshall says that "[Ahmadinejad] has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11" he is being disingenuous.  From the 9-11 Commission we learned that 10 of the hijackers traveled through Iran en route to the US while Iranian border officials waved them through without leaving any eyebrow-raising passport stamps.  Now, Ahmadinejad was not in power in 2000/2001, but as the current leader of the Iranian state he certainly bears symbolic responsibility.

Dr. Marshall's Big Finish provided a chuckle:

If we as a country were a person, I'd say grow up.  Act like a man*.  Have some self-respect.

* Yes, outdated language.  But I know no non-gendered language that conveys the same meaning.

Hmm, Hillary and K-Lo ought to be men?  Do not women posses the virtues of wisdom, maturity, and self-restraint for which Dr. M is looking?  Fortunately, Dr. M is a lefty so he can get away with sexist nonsense like that.

MORE:  The Anon Lib rallied to Josh Marshall's side and took up the cudgels on behalf of Columbia, which will be hosting a speech by Ahmadinejad.  I would be more comfortable with that hosting if there was not such an obvious asymmetry at American campuses - Ahmadinejad can speak at Columbia but Lawrence Summers can not speak at UC Board of Regents.  And I very much doubt that Don Rumsfeld or Condi Rice would be able to address a Columbia audience.  So the idea of a half-free university atmosphere bothers me, although it may be that half-free is better than not free at all.

STILL MORE:  Frank J on his Ground Zero philosophy:

In the Fred Thompson administration, there will be no need for the leaders of terrorist states to visit Ground Zero; Ground Zero will be wherever they live.

Comments

[narciso]

Boy that's ten minutes I'll never get back. Besides that 9/11 tie; there are reports of
Iranian proxy Hezbollah coordinator Imad Mugniyeh's meeting with Bin Laden in 1996; where they shared their experience of the
U.S. retreat from Beirut (Bin Laden, was a little busy in 1983; at the moment to worry
about such things.

[Anonymous Liberal]

I have no intention of defending the way Larry Summers was treated (i.e. very unfairly), or to defend all behavior by American academics, but I do have some familiarity with Lee Bollinger, having attended Columbia Law. And I can tell you he is a very reasonable person, not some knee-jerk Ward Churchill-like leftist. And I think his defense of his decision in this instance is both eloquent and pretty obviously correct on the merits.

It's important not to lose sight of the nature of the event. A mere invitation to participate at some event is not in itself an honor bestowed on someone. If Columbia were inviting Ahmadenijad to give some sort of prestigious address or to be the keynote speaker at some event, or some other invitation that people would consider an honor, that's one thing. But that's not what this is. Bollinger has made it clear that the bulk of the forum will be devoted to a Q&A session in which he intends to grill Ahmadinejad on a number of issues, including his statements about Israel and the holocaust. And he's inviting others to do the same. I don't see why that's objectionable. It's seems to be like a rare opportunity get this guy on the record and really pin him down about certain issues.

[PeterUK]

"I have not yet ascertained the view of Elizabeth Edwards."

Although Senator Edwards hairdresser advised against attending the site since," A safety hat plays havoc with his coiffure."

[hit and run]

TM:
And I very much doubt that Don Rumsfeld or Condi Rice would be able to address a Columbia audience.

Or how about if Rumsfeld were to join as a visting fellow to the Hoover Institution, a conservative think tank (think Victor Davis Hanson) located on the Stanford campus, but unaffiliated with Stanford U.

No one would be up in arms about that, would they?

[PeterUK]

"It's seems to be like a rare opportunity get this guy on the record and really pin him down about certain issues."

The man will simply lie through his teeth.

[hit and run]

Anonymous Liberal:
Bollinger has made it clear that the bulk of the forum will be devoted to a Q&A session in which he intends to grill Ahmadinejad on a number of issues, including his statements about Israel and the holocaust.

JPod has already scripted the grilling.

Despite whatever view one has of JPod, it's an interesting argument he puts forth in FAVOR of Ahmadinejad in any argument where Bollinger is involved.

[Sue]

It's seems to be like a rare opportunity get this guy on the record and really pin him down about certain issues.

Certain issues. Like the death sentence for gays? While ROTC is not allowed on campus because of the don't ask, don't tell policy. Sweet. Odds are, his country's treatment of gays/lesbians will not be addressed. Nor will the lack of rights for women be addressed. But I will lay odds that Bush's name comes up.

[PeterUK]

Anyone who cannot see that this would be a propaganda coup for Ahmadinejad is stupid.

[hit and run]

Can Columbia open up the forum so that non-students and non-faculty can ask questions? I know that it would be bedlam to open it up to anyone. But if you think a "grilling" is in order, why not bring in some first class "grillers"?

Not that I don't trust Columbia students and faculty, oh wait, maybe I don't?

[Garth]

he probably thinks by getting out and interacting with americans he can dispell the notion he's crazy and needs to be "taken out" with extreme prejudice.

how the left would howl if he were gunned down on the streets of ny in a calculated political hit.

[Terrye]

This man is part of an insane and homicidal regime that hangs gay teenagers. Kills them. He does not hurt their feelings, he puts a rope around the necks.

He is holocaust denying loon. Sheesh.

I wonder if Columbia ever invited Stalin to speak.

There is a really interesting book out there, Reading Lolita in Tehran by Azar Nafisi. I would recommend the book, it gives an inside view of Iran during the revolution through the eyes of American educated literature professor.

[Semanticleo]

AL;

"Moreover, our hysterical, utterly juvenile overreaction plays right into Ahmadinejad's hand politically. First, it elevates his importance far beyond anything he deserves. Second, it actually makes him more of a sympathetic figure to Iranians who wouldn't otherwise be inclined to side with him. To Iranians, it must seem like Americans either don't know or don't care about the difference between Persian Iranians and Sunni Arab terrorists like Osama bin Laden. Iran had nothing to do with 9/11, and I doubt that most Iranians appreciate their head of state being treated as if he and his country were somehow responsible for those events, particularly when all he planned to do was lay a wreath at the site."

Indeed. A plethora of international issues
infest the daily news, and this is what counts? Please.

[PeterUK]

Yes,you need at least one token conservative.
Anybody want to lay odds on this not being hijacked by the anti-war movement?

[PeterUK]

"I wonder if Columbia ever invited Stalin to speak?"

Columbia would invite Satan to speak in the interests of balance.

[hit and run]

PUK:
Yes,you need at least one token conservative.

Hell, compromise conservative, let Andrew Sullivan grill him on gay issues.

[Topsecretk9]

So the idea of a half-free university atmosphere bothers me, although it may be that half-free is better than not free at all.

Iran Universities are zero free. Seems awfully hypocritical for Columbia to wet kiss a man who closes down his universities at will, but of course so called liberals could care less about Iranian students.

Actually, it make me sick that liberals want to wet kiss the fascist scumbag while he is killing American soldiers.

[Sue]

Iran had nothing to do with 9/11, and I doubt that most Iranians appreciate their head of state being treated as if he and his country were somehow responsible for those events, particularly when all he planned to do was lay a wreath at the site.

We are being asked, how did Hillary! say it, have a willing suspension of belief to that portion of Patraeus' testimony that Iran is supplying weapons to those killing our troops in Iraq. For that reason alone, he has no business anywhere near ground zero.

[Rick Ballard]

Now Peter, what's a college for if not to pursue collegial interests? I'm certain that Bollinger will do his utmost to persuade Ahmanutter of the folly of pursuing the islamic theological position rather than switching to the progressive Hegelian theology. What difference does it really make when submission is the actual end anyway? Surely Ahmanutter will be lead to substitute Reason for Allah - especially given that, either way, the Jews remain the enemy.

Great things can come from a meeting of like minds. Look what Molotov and Ribbentrop were able to achieve. The disparity in this case is as purely theoretical as it was back then and there is no reason to believe that common ground will not cheerfully be shared while ever closer relationships are developed.

[Terrye]

It is like having a conversation with a snake. What do you talk about?

Tell me Mr. Mad Mullah, do you have problems attaining an rejection? Quite often when shrimpy little men fail to perform they feel the need to compensate by beheading an unwed mother. Did you ever behead an unwed mother?

I just can't quite visualize how a conversation like this works.

[SteveMG]

Concepts like honor, dignity, decency are apparently foreign to Dr. Marshall.

Men without chests, indeed.

SMG

[RichatUF]

from the Hillary! quote-

It is unacceptable for Iranian President Ahmadinejad, who refuses to renounce and end his own country’s support of terrorism...

It is unacceptable unprofitable for Iranian President Ahmadinejad, who refuses to renounce and end his own country’s support terrorism... has declared war on the United States and Israel...

I'm sure once the rent table can be worked out, Hillary! will be more pliant towards our Islamic and Chinese masters [ask Hsu, the check's in the mail].

[hit and run]

Ah, what the hell, Pat Buchanan is a Columbia alumni...Norman Podhoretz...David Horowitz...Laura Schlessinger...Mona Charen at Barnard...Ben Stein...Jeffrey Hart...Denis Prager...

...invite any of them on behalf of the greater Columbia community.

And another opportunity to mourn Jeanne Kirkpatrick...

[hit and run]

Shoot, didn't even catch this, get Thomas Sowell there....

[clarice]

If you get a PhD. in history at Brown are you still a doctor? Are you really well-versed in history? What a clown.

Bollinger was silent on the speech code at the University of Michigan when he was there--showing once again that cowardice and the failure to defend real free speech and dialogue is a sure shot to academic success.

[PeterUK]

Rick,
The first question will be,"President Ahmadinejad,do you think that a reversal of Bushitlers insane hegemonic war in Iraq is preventing the restoration of peace in the Middle East".There probably won't be more time for more questions because of the anti-Bushitler riots..

A couple of points,Ahmadinejad could room with Andrew Sullivan,in the interests of learning and peaceful co-existance.
That "common ground" you mention,I think it is called Europe

[Terrye]

I am not so sure inviting Pat would help. Considering his own feelings about the Jews and all.

But Norman Podhoretz would be someone who might have some good questions for Mr. Ahmadinejad.

[PeterUK]

"President Ahmadinejad,do you think that Bushitlers insane hegemonic war in Iraq is preventing the restoration of peace in the Middle East".

Too late at night!

[Sara]

You can be all academic about Imanutjob, but the bottom line is that he is conducting a proxy war with us and sanctioning his minions to kill our soldiers and supply weapons to the terrorists. He has declared that our strongest ally in the region should be blown off the face of the earth. He has insulted a segment of our society and world society with his holocaust denials.

And he was part of the Iranian Embassy take over and hostage crisis.

The President should deny him entry into the U.S. just as Clinton did with Arafat. Columbia should have the scorn of nation reign down on them. I don't care how fair Bollinger is. This evil man should not be disinvited, no not disinvited, told to stay the hell away.

This has nothing to do with free speech, it has everything to do with American lives and American freedoms.

[Terrye]

Sara:

I agree that this guy is the enemy. But that whole UN thing makes it difficult to refuse to let them in.

I was never really crazy about the UN, but over the years I have gotten more and more disgusted with the place and one of the reasons is that any and every nut job on the planet who can get an invite to the United Nations gets to come to New York.

That just sucks.

[Sara]

The man is an enemy of the United States and the idea he should sit down for a chit chat with college students and be wined and dined at the Press Club is contemptible.

[PeterUK]

The rich irony of this is,those self same fair minded liberals, are the very people who Ahmadinejad wants to see dangling from a crane.

[Sue]

As PeterUK called him Imanutjob, doesn't care what we think, want or do. He is a true tinfoil hatted terrorist loon that believes only what he wishes to believe even if proven otherwise. I only wish he would fall in a deep hole or fall off the platform at that college called columbia. I am sick and tired of hearing it called a prestigious university!
Since the tinfoil hatted leftist loons have taken over academia, there is no more prestigious universities left in the world. Only places full of young and old nutjobs!

[Sara]

Well Clinton kept Arafat out, and Imanutjob is not coming as a diplomat or ambassador, he is coming as a Head of State of a country that is waging war against us and our allies. I'm sorry but as I said it is contemptible and outrageous.

[centralcal]

From what I have read (sorry, read to much to remember every source), Mahmoud answers questions with 30 minute (or longer) diatribes. So what difference is it if the questions are probing? The Q & A could last a week!

I really think Bill Kristol has the best idea. Columbia students should simply boycott. The faculty won't, so I won't even go there suggesting that. And, sad to say, the students probably will not either. I also read somewhere today that it was "SRO" already and anyone trying to attend now would have to watch a remote transmission.

Sickening.

[Terrye]

Imanutjob is pretty clever. That PUK is talented with that sort of thing.

[narciso]

An imperfect comparison would be when Harvard welcomed Ernst "Putzi Hanftaegl,
'11. Hitler's flack there in 1936, but
they had the excuse he was an alumni.

I had forgotten about Saudi Hezbollah's role in the Khobar Towers in Dhahran, in
1996; the reputed real life analogue of
the events in "The Kingdom" as another
mark against him. Indications are the bombers trained at a camp at the ever popular city of Mashad; which many Iraqi
politicians including an Al Queda leader
and the Sunni speaker of Parliament, have
as part of their name. Bob Baer, a name I've referenced many times; based his latest
alternative look at September 11th as essentially an Iranian plot with AQ 'false
flag' elements; that's academic free range
crazy comparable to trutherism; ie 9/11 denialism

[hit and run]

Best of all?
----

Iran, Bollinger and Salman Rushdie [Greg Pollowitz]

If Ahmadinejad does speak at Columbia, I would hope that President Bollinger brings up Salman Rushdie, who was forced into hiding by Khomeini's death threats over the publication of The Satanic Verses.

And as ironies go, here's an interview of Salman Rushide by Bollinger. An excerpt:

Bollinger: At your talk at Columbia in 1991, you gave a self-description, in which you talked about holding on to your soul. You said, “No matter how great the storm, if that plunges me into contradiction and paradox, so be it. I’ve lived in that messy ocean all my life. I fished in it for my art. This turbulent sea was the sea outside my bedroom window in Bombay. It is the sea by which I was born and which I carry with me wherever I go.” Do you still agree with this as a description of yourself?

Rushdie: Yes. I mean, this really is the last thing to say: I think that democracy, freedom, art, literature—these are not tea parties, you know? These are turbulent, brawling, arguing, abrasive things. I’ve always seen the work of the imagination and the world of the intellect as being turbulent places. And, you know, out of turbulence come sparks, which are sometimes creative and sometimes not. But without that turbulence, in a calm sea, nothing happens.

If Bollinger really wants to highlight the power of free speech, he should invite Rushdie to debate Ahmadinejad.

[MikeS]

Ahmadinejad has already explained himself. Now he needs to have somethings explained to him. The people of Iran should understand that they are viewed as a barbaric pariah state because of their association with Hezbollah and nutjobs like Mamoud.

[hit and run]

Maybe Haleh Asfandiari would be given a chance at the mic?

[Sara]

I was reminded today by one of the talking heads that Iran allowed the 9/11 hijackers to pass thru Iran without benefit of a passport stamp or anything like that. That was before Imajihad (thank Pamela Geller) in his present position, but he is the Head of State now and the face of Iran.

[Sara]

Iran Describes Ahmadinejad As "Socrates of 3rd Millineum"

[MikeS]

I got a kick out of the statement of those Stanford professors who object to Rumsfeld's Hoover Institute appointment.

 

"We view the appointment as fundamentally incompatible with the ethical values of truthfulness, tolerance, disinterested enquiry, respect for national and international laws, and care for the opinions, property and lives of others to which Stanford is inalienably committed,"

It appears that those professors have heard these words before, and they know that they sound good. But they don't seem to understand what the words mean!

[Sue]

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2007/09/be-a-man.html#comment-83668863>Not this Sue Is someone impersonating me or do we have a visitor?

[Terrye]

Socrates? Does that mean he will be drinking hemlock? I hope.

I hear he did not like The 300. Where are the Spartans when you need them?

[Sue]

It boggles the mind to think they are allowing a man a platform who believes killing teenage boys because they are gay is the right thing to do. Because he hates Bush. The world has truly gone mad.

[clarice]

Go to little green footballs to see what Columbia did with a leading German Nazi in the lead up to that war and how that university continued relations with German universities even after the Nuremberg laws purged all Jews from them.
I have always regarded the Jewish connection to Columbia as evidence of the masochism of NY Jews.

[Terrye]

clarice:

I have never understood that phenomenon. It just seems to self loathing to me.

[clarice]

I don't understand it either.

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/42946.html

[Syl]

It's seems to be like a rare opportunity get this guy on the record and really pin him down about certain issues.

LOLOL! ROTF! LOL!

"Are you really building the bomb?"

"We don't make bad movies in Iran!"

[Syl]

Rushdie: Yes. I mean, this really is the last thing to say: I think that democracy, freedom, art, literature—these are not tea parties, you know? These are turbulent, brawling, arguing, abrasive things. I’ve always seen the work of the imagination and the world of the intellect as being turbulent places. And, you know, out of turbulence come sparks, which are sometimes creative and sometimes not. But without that turbulence, in a calm sea, nothing happens.

This is simply brilliant...couldn't one also say that 'turbulence' and 'sparks' vs 'calm sea' and 'nothing happens' defines capitalism vs socialism as well?

[Jane]

I don't see why that's objectionable.

It's objectionable. It wouldn't be objectionable if we were all on the same side in this war, but we aren't. We have the people who say there is no war, but in reality they mean that they are on the side of the enemy, because it will reflect badly on George Bush.

Through that prism I can understand why someone would not understand what that is objectionable - after all democracy should be that malleable, right?

[A.L.]

It never ceases to amaze me what cartoon realities some people allow themselves to live in. Do you guys even know any actual liberals? Not all Columbia students are mindless far-leftists. Indeed the vast majority aren't. Same goes for most faculty members. And they're not inviting Ahmadinejad to campus in order to praise him or honor him or even to bash President Bush. They just think you can learn more about someone by confronting them than by sticking your fingers in your ears and acting like your five.

Good grief, I hope someone tapes the session. You'd be shocked to see how totally unlike the stereotypes and cartoons you've painted for yourself the event really is.

[Sue]

Good grief, I hope someone tapes the session. You'd be shocked to see how totally unlike the stereotypes and cartoons you've painted for yourself the event really is.

We are hoping for a minutemen reenactment. Not expecting it, but hoping.

[Soylent Red]

Maybe we should let him go ahead and go down to Ground Zero. And then just "forget" to mention the NYPD strike going on that day.

Or perhaps blow up his motorcade with a shaped charge IED recovered from Iraq.

Better yet, let's take him hostage for a year and a half. Maybe put him up in Plains, GA for good measure.

So many possibilities really...

[clarice]

A.L., we are poor little sheep with no life experiences whom TM leads around by the nose. LOL

[Topsecretk9]

--Do you guys even know any actual liberals?--

WAY. TOO. MANY. WAY, WAY.

[narciso]

In other news, the witness that Henry Waxman was counting on to 'speak truth to power' about the evil plot to build an American embassy in Baghdad in order to
invade Iran, and build the Death. . .well
it turns out, he's pulling a Bill Burkett.
*<http://blogs.wsj/washwire/2007/09/21/ tarnished-witness>

[RichatUF]

narsico-

Khobar Towers FBI presser indictment

The bombings at al-Khobar and the East Africa Embassies still get my blood boiling.

Lets not forget the Iranian connections to the 92 and 94 Argentina bomings (and throw in the Alas Chiricanas Flight 901 bombing, because it is probably related) [iirc, Britian arested and deported to Argentina one of the Iranian suspects]

[Sara]

I know plenty of genuine liberals. They tell me to stay clear of lefty moonbats 'cuz they have cooties.

[Rick Ballard]

Will Sarkozy be in town? If Columbia invites him to describe what the French target set will be in Iran, then I would support Ahmanutter's being invited to give a reaction - he could describe the efficacy of his new Russian air defense system, using it's success against the Israeli strike in Syria as an illustration. After all, the Israelis do seem to have had to jettison some long range fuel tanks after they repeatedly hit their targets.

[Sue]

You know, it isn't just the fact that he is a terrorist supporter, holocaust denier or complete nutjob that makes me wonder at the people of Columbia. While that matters to me, what I really don't understand is why anyone would want to give him a platform of any kind that isn't required by the UN. He is everything a liberal can't stand. He runs a theocracy. He kills gays. He imprisons women for nothing more than being female. He silences academics in his country. And yet, he gets an invite. The lunacy of that is what I object to. They aren't going to confront him. They will applaud every line that says Bush lied, kids died in whatever form he says it.

[Soylent Red]

I prefer payment in kind for his sharp tongue

[Sara]

Strange things happening in the Carolinas:

Charleston Police Remove Suspicious Package from Calhoun St.

and

Breaking: 'Terrorist Threat' at Raleigh-Durham Airport
2 Passengers Arrested at RDU After Plane Disturbance.

Morrisville — Two people were arrested at Raleigh-Durham International Airport Friday night after causing a “serious disturbance” on their flight from Jacksonville, Fla., according to an airport spokeswoman.

No one was injured, but the disturbance was classified as a terrorist threat, according to RDU Spokeswoman Colleen Fischvogt. Investigators did not say what may have been said or found to have prompted that decision.

Authorities did not immediately release the names of the two people who were arrested. They are in the custody of the FBI, officials said.

Police and emergency personnel met American Eagle flight 4518 at RDU after hearing that two passengers were causing a disturbance. The plane was held away from the terminal after it landed, and police surrounded the aircraft.

It had been scheduled to go to Gate C26. Several other emergency vehicles were also on the scene.

The flight was en route to RDU when the crew called for police to meet them.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Can someone explain to me the difference between half-free and not free at all?

[Topsecretk9]

Soylent -

Sharp tounge --can you imagine what Iran would do to Jane Hamsher?

[Garth]

as if the man has anything better to do than fly half way across the world to rile up the wing nuts.

no one has bothered to notice that Columbia has got a whole host of world leaders speaking this week. turkmenistan anyone...?

if i were president of iran, i would want a nuclear bomb too... in addition to nuclear energy to provide a stable power grid like i hear they used to have in the U, S of A... before enron that is...

he's there in person...

where's robin?

[Bostonian]

AL,
I actually know lots of liberals, and every time they open their mouths with "impeach Bush," "impeach Cheney," and so on, I find myself newly horrified at the things they believe to be facts. In fact, when I hear them in detail, it is usually worse than I imagined.

As for the Ahmadinnerjacket, if you cannot see that it's wrong to permit an avowed enemy of our country to visit the scene where 3000 people died at the hands of people who share his identical view of How Things Should Be, then I can only conclude that your sense of right and wrong has atrophied from years of disuse.

[Garth]

He that wishes to see his country robbed of its rights cannot be a patriot.

That man, therefore, is no patriot, who justifies the ridiculous claims of American usurpation; who endeavours to deprive the nation of its natural and lawful authority over its own colonies; those colonies, which were settled under English protection; were constituted by an English charter; and have been defended by English arms.

To suppose, that by sending out a colony, the nation established an independent power; that when, by indulgence and favour, emigrants are become rich, they shall not contribute to their own defence, but at their own pleasure; and that they shall not be included, like millions of their fellow subjects, in the general system of representation; involves such an accumulation of absurdity, as nothing but the show of patriotism could palliate.

He that accepts protection, stipulates obedience. We have always protected the Americans; we may, therefore, subject them to government.

The less is included in the greater. That power which can take away life, may seize upon property. The parliament may enact, for America, a law of capital punishment; it may, therefore, establish a mode and proportion of taxation.

But there are some who lament the state of the poor Bostonians, because they cannot all be supposed to have committed acts of rebellion, yet all are involved in the penalty imposed. This, they say, is to violate the first rule of justice, by condemning the innocent to suffer with the guilty.

This deserves some notice, as it seems dictated by equity and humanity, however it may raise contempt by the ignorance which it betrays of the state of man, and the system of things. That the innocent should be confounded with the guilty, is, undoubtedly, an evil; but it is an evil which no care or caution can prevent. National crimes require national punishments, of which many must necessarily have their part, who have not incurred them by personal guilt. If rebels should fortify a town, the cannon of lawful authority will endanger, equally, the harmless burghers and the criminal garrison.

In some cases, those suffer most who are least intended to be hurt. If the French, in the late war, had taken an English city, and permitted the natives to keep their dwellings, how could it have been recovered, but by the slaughter of our friends? A bomb might as well destroy an Englishman as a Frenchman; and, by famine, we know that the inhabitants would be the first that would perish.

This infliction of promiscuous evil may, therefore, be lamented, but cannot be blamed. The power of lawful government must be maintained; and the miseries which rebellion produces, can be discharged only on the rebels.

Posted by No Exit at 1:53 PM

david-sullivan.blogspot.com

Labels: Ungrateful bastards

[Ralph L]

From Garth's cut&paste:
"National crimes require national punishments, of which many must necessarily have their part, who have not incurred them by personal guilt"
So true, but why do I suspect Garth is thinking of Bushitler instead of our nation's real enemies?

Columbia is run by the people who sided with Ho Chi Minh, Castro, and Mao when they were "students". My brother's brother-in-law dropped out of Columbia in 1970 because all they did in class was talk about the war.

[Terrye]

AL:

I have know a lot of liberals, in fact according to some people I still am one on certain issues at least.

The problem liberals face is that a fringe of fanatical zealots have taken over their home, the Democratic party and in fact their entire political base. Guilt by association sucks does it not?

If they do not want to be viewed as crazy people then they really should stop pandering to people like this anti American dictator just in the hopes they can stick it to George Bush. It makes them look like they live in a fantasy. Tell me, when was the last time this guy was invited to speak at any major university in the world much less in NYC? Well unless you include Syria and Venezuala he is not exactly on anyone's short list.

You know this the sort of problem that liberals and conservatives can both face, if they are not careful extremists can take over and turn them into fringe groups. Politics can be like a circle where extremes meet and it becomes difficult to tell far right and far left apart, they just become one big nutpie.

It is like some unholy union of the American Nazi Party, the Ku Klux Klan and MoveOn, ANSWER, Code Pink and God knows what else.

A bizarre combination indeed.

[PeterUK]

"Do you guys even know any actual liberals?"

Funny you should ask that,all the liberals I have met were socialists.

Now a question for you.Since Ahmonjihad was a leading member of the student revolutionaries who held your embassy staff prisoner,supplies the terrorists who are killing American and British troops,who declares the destruction of America and Israel to be his prime objective,why do you want to honour him with a propaganda platform?
Oh yes,will you give George Bush equal time to rebut?

[Patton]

The only thing places like Columbia understand is money. They should withhold all federal funds from any institution allowing a terrorist to give a speech.

Liberals love to do things like this because they seldom face any real consequences. When judges start throwing the worst of the protestors in jail for a year, then the antics will stop.

[Terrye]

I saw this over at Power Line , it is a comment from an emailer and a phone number:

Reader Jon Mudder writes:

As an alumnus of Columbia University , I called the President's office to express my outrage at this invitation. A very polite woman, who directed me to a voice mailbox specially constructed for this event, greeted me.

The voicemail begins with a synopsis of Bollinger's press release and drones on for several minutes. When it's time to leave a message, a pre-recorded voice comes on to inform me that the mailbox is full.

The phone number is 212-854-7328.

[Patton]

Columbia hasn't changed, they were in bed with the nazis and there in bed with our enemies today. Cutr of their funding and let them sink..good riddance.

In 1936, the Columbia administration announced it would send a delegate to Nazi Germany to take part in the 550th anniversary celebration of the University of Heidelberg. This, despite the fact that Heidelberg already had been purged of Jewish faculty members, instituted a Nazi curriculum, and hosted a burning of books by Jewish authors. Prof. Arthur Remy, who served as Columbia’s delegate to the Heidelberg event, later remarked that the reception at which chief book-burner Josef Goebbels presided was “very enjoyable.”

They never learn and they never apologize, and we never take them to task.

[PeterUK]

"as if the man has anything better to do than fly half way across the world to rile up the wing nuts."

He has indeed,there are bombs to be built,little girls hanged from cranes,exhortations to destroy the Great and Little Satans,then there are the chats with the guy who lives down the well.Busy,busy busy.

[Jane]

Do you guys even know any actual liberals? Not all Columbia students are mindless far-leftists. Indeed the vast majority aren't. Same goes for most faculty members. And they're not inviting Ahmadinejad to campus in order to praise him or honor him or even to bash President Bush. They just think you can learn more about someone by confronting them than by sticking your fingers in your ears and acting like your five.

Ahmadinejad is going for the photo op - to show the world how important he is, not to inform you of his vast wisdom. He'd be as happy to stone you to death as have a discussion with you. All those smart Columbia inhabitants should know that.

It seems to me if Columbia was actually interested in the free flow of ideas they would have ROTC on campus. Be sure to let us know when their liberalism extends that far.

[Terrye]

Jane:

They can not have ROTC on campus, after all, the military has such an archaic view of homosexuality.

[centralcal]

Do you guys even know any actual liberals?

Yes. And, they all share one thing in common. They are very NEEDY people. Their list of NEEDS are infinitum. But, most of all they NEED everyone to be NEEDY too, to validate them.

[m]

Be sure to let us know when their liberalism extends that far.

Jane,
You hit the nail on the head. Contemporary 'progressive liberals' practice a limited or selective type of liberalism because they can do so with sincerity.

For example; they sincerely believe that WE should be tolerant and respectful of the opinions of others. By that they mean that WE not THEY should be tolerant and respectful.

With respect to our opinions they believe, as does RFK Jr. regarding the global warming debate, we should be prosecuted for treason.

[capitano]

I wonder if Columbia ever invited Stalin to speak.

*******

Posted by: Terrye | September 21, 2007 at 07:19 PM

Not sure, but I heard Columbia's President Bollinger quoted this morning saying if Hitler had come to the U.S. there would have been ample opportunity for him to make public speeches. Likewise, if he were willing to engage in a dialog (rather than merely making a propaganda speech) Columbia would have been one of those venues.

Priceless.

I like the idea of having Salmon Rushdie debate him; hell, I'd settle for Christopher Hitchens.

[Topsecretk9]

Since liberals are so supportive of the Iranian president's visit, can we take from that that liberals are in support of Iran's attacks on US soldiers in Iraq? Apparently so.

-------

OT

According to the lawsuit filed by Briar Wood Investments, Hsu persuaded the company's operator to do business with him by taking him to star-studded Democratic Party events. There, the 56-year-old Hong Kong native was praised by New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, California Atty. Gen. Jerry Brown and others, the lawsuit said.

As a condition of doing business with the fundraiser, Hsu directed investors to make contributions to certain Democratic candidates, the lawsuit said. The investors turned over tens of thousands of dollars, including $30,000 worth of checks to Clinton's campaign on a single day.

Chief law enforcement officer in CA praised him.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Columbia would invite Satan to speak in the interests of balance.

In fact, Harry Truman sent a personal letter to Joe Stalin--hand delivered by Walter (Beadle)Smith, our ambassador to Moscow--apologizing for Winston Churchill's Iron Curtain speech. He not only invited Stalin to come and give a rebuttal speech, he offered the USS Missouri to transport him.

[capitano]

Alternately, the U.S. military could show its tolerance by offering Ahmadinejad to be its guest at a military resort in the Carribean for approximately 444 days (BYOB).*

*Bring Your Own Blindfold

[PeterUK]

Has the half wit ever heard how politicians elide questions? Amadjihad will run rings round them,he is going for one reason only,propaganda.That and the probability that Columbia would never let George Bush speak.

[Sue]

It takes a willing suspension of belief to think a debate will take place or that any question that doesn't pertain to Bush done it will occur.

Thanks to Hillary! for a lovely new phrase. ::grin::

[capitano]

Not only would he run rings around them, he could do it by quoting U.S. politicians and media celebrities. He's already taken that approach when asked tough questions on Iran's sponsorship of terrorism -- he accuses the questioner of bias and cites U.S. opinion polls in support of his positions.

[Sara]

Best protest sign I've seen:

Shot of the Day

[PeterUK]

One thing is sure,the Democrat defeatist wing will seize the opportunity to bash the Bush administration.Anyone want to run a book on the course of the debate?

[Wilson's a liar]

I know plenty of liberals. In fact, I have been married to one for almost 23 years. And he is completely outraged that any so-called liberal institution in this country could welcome the head of possibly the most illiberal regime in the world.

[Sue]

I think I'm quoting Hillary! wrong. A willing suspension of disbelief. Truthfully, neither works for me. I'd rather just say I don't believe you, that way you won't mistake me for a politician.

[Barney Frank]

The Nazis in 1936 were a looming threat but were not yet directly at war with anyone. Likewise Khomeini prior to 1979. I wouldn't invite nutters like that myself even if we weren't at war with them but I wouldn't get out my poster board and magic markers either.
However, is it too much to ask that a distinction be made when the nutters actually declare war on us and start killing our citizens and soldiers, as Iran has been doing for the last 28 years?
It is imbecilic to say he needs to be confronted by big, bad Columbia coeds to expose him for what he is. Anybody who still needs convincing isn't listening anyway.

[Garth]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad[1] (born October 28, 1956)[2] is the 6th and current President of the Islamic Republic of Iran. He became president on 6 August 2005 after winning the 2005 presidential election by popular vote. Ahmadinejad's current term will end in August 2009, but he will be eligible to run for one more term in office in 2009 presidential elections. Before becoming president, he was the Mayor of Tehran. He is the highest directly elected official in the country, but, according to Article 113 of Constitution of Iran, he has less total power than the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of Iran and has the final word in all aspects of foreign and domestic policies.[3][4]

Ahmadinejad is an outspoken critic of the George W. Bush Administration and supports strengthened relations between Iran and Russia (see Iran-Russia relations), Cuba, Venezuela (see Iran-Venezuela relations), Syria (see Iran-Syria relations) and the Persian Gulf states.[5][6][7] He has supported Iran's nuclear program declaring it is for peaceful purposes in spite of contrary demands by the United Nations Security Council to end it.[8] He was condemned internationally[9] for calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map,"[9][10][11] and described the Holocaust as a "myth",[9][12] leading to accusations of antisemitism.[13] In response to these criticisms, Ahmadinejad said “No, I am not anti-Jew, I respect them very much.”[14]

During his presidency, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad launched a gas rationing plan to reduce the country's fuel consumption, dissolved the Management and Planning Organisation of Iran and cut the interest rate for private and public banking facilities.

david-sullivan.blogspot.com

[Rick Ballard]

There is no tyrant's boot too filthy for a progressive to lick.

[PeterUK]

Al Garth smells like Sferris/D E M O,must be a progressive.

[PeterUK]

Mr Ballard,
I have ever seen "butt" spelled that way before.

[narciso]

It's narciso, after Narciso Lopez, the Venezuelan born Cuban national who drew up the Cuban flag in 1849 while in exile in NY and died in prison after being captured in a 19th Century version of the Bay of Pigs.

The first Buenos Aires bombing was directed by a Feridoun Nezhi-Nejad. Feri, is was later discovered by Bob Baer, was the one called the "Australian" that Oliver North dealt in the first round of hostage negotiations who had been invited to the Old Executive Office Building back in 1985.
Interestingly, the Tower report revealed that the North/McFarlane back channel was only one of several being conducted by former US officials and/or through informal channel; One was through Ted Kennedy's offices; this is an addition to his approaches to Andropov which encouraged Soviet paranoia around the time of Operation
Ryan. The other was through Mr. "I'm in Charge" myself Alexander Haig.
Cluelessness in our dealings with Iran continues at high governmental/ and media levels. Barry and Hosenball at News Week
whitewashed the IRGC role in Iran;referring to their preexisting contacts with Shia and Kurdish leaders. Hosenball, one should recall was the reporter who took Agee's dictation in Britain, forcing the removal of American intelligence officials there.
Michael Hirsh, also of NewsWeek, blandly proferred the advice of top Iranian diplomat
Mohsen Rezai, that America had no business in Iraq, curiously this unsolicited advice comes from a former? top commander in the IRCG, coincidence.Consider if the former Defense department official Ret, Gen, William Boykin, the one branded as a 'religious fanatic' by William Arkin, wasto become an aide to Condi Rice and was
proferring similar advice to Iranian or perish the thought, Saudi officials.

Kenneth Timmermanrevealed in his previous book, that Mohsen's son Ahmed relayed information about the September 11th plot, which of course was ignored by CIA officials like Paris (and fmr. Beirut
station chief) William Murray but not by
Congressman Curt Weldon.

One of those 'poor Iranian diplomats whose status was infringed after being detained in a raid in Baghdad, Mohammed Jafaari, was recently promoted to head of
the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.

[sammy small]

re: Columbia being half free. Is that like some being more equal than others?

[richard mcenroe]

"I have not yet ascertained the view of Elizabeth Edwards."

Have you checked with Jane Hamsher?

[narciso]

Garth's description of Ahmadinejad's c.v. is a little sketchy. It's a little like beginning Saddam Hussein's bio with his
Vice Presidency and leaving out his work
as Baathist coup plotter and torturer at
the Palace of the End. begins with a stint as an organizer of the "Students of the Line
of the Prophet" as Mark Bowden has pointed out was one of the major organizations behind the American embassy takeover, It moves to his work with the Iranian revolutionary Guards;VEVAK their special forces ( He's the Iranian Jack Bauer)which is tied to Hezbollah,one former official in charge of liason in Baalbek to the
kidnappers and murderers of CIA man William Buckley, Adm. Shamkhani, became Khatami's Defense Minister. Besides the usual work of storming Iraqi army positions, he was detailed to work with Gen Fallijian; who worked to discourage Iranian dissidents like Rushdie and Quassemlou from taking a breath; The latter was terminated in Vienna, 1989. He chose more adminstrative
work, running Tehran's Evin prison in the interim; eventually was appointed as a university rector working with heavy industry (nuclear) anyone. Then came his
appointed post. He seems to have started
a trend; General Ghalibaf, beloved by the students for his 'deft touch' in dealing with student protesters in 2003, succeeded
him in Tehran city hall. Just another Iranian moderate, I see, like Rafsanjani and Nezhi-Nejad.

[Terrye]

Well you know once Imanutjob {I am stealing that PUK} gets here, we could always put a blindfold on him and let him be a guest of George W. Bush for about 400 days. In a small dark room. With mobs outside the windows screaming for his death.