John Edwards, Deplorably Racist?

I am fascinated by John Edwards' comment about young African-American males, as reported by Jim Geraghty of NRO:

Asked about what he could do about "inner-city kids partaking in violence" at the MTV/MySpace Forum yesterday, Democratic candidate John Edwards offered an apocalyptic prediction for young black males:

“We cannot build enough prisons to solve this problem. And the idea that we can keep incarcerating and keep incarcerating — pretty soon we’re not going to have a young African-American male population in America. They’re all going to be in prison or dead. One of the two.”

Jim G. goes on to explain that, based on official statistics, there are roughly four times as many young African-American males in college as in prison.  Maybe we can't build colleges fast enough!

But why might Edwards' comment be construed as racist?  It seems like only yesterday that Bill O'Reilly was being thumped for his insensitivity in describing Sylvia's, a famous restaurant in Harlem, as being quite normal.  Surely a fellow who believes that most young black men are in prison (or dead) is guilty of a comparable insensitivity.

Comments

[Neo]

They’re all going to be in prison or dead. One of the two.

I wonder just how many in the "black community" will contest this ?
You don't even need any "soft racism" to have "reduced expectations". It comes for free.

Only sixty years ago another group was given much the same expectation, but refused to succumb to the Holocaust.

[MikeS]

John Edwards suffers from a lack of self awareness.
He reminds me of those professors at Stanford University who wouldn't tolerate Rumsfeld because they thought he was intolerant.

[hit and run]

Blah, blah, blah: $1,200

Blah, blah, blah: $50,000

Blah, blah, blah: $500,000

Edwards claiming blacks will be dead or in prison: Priceless.

Sorry, meant to look up the links and figures for haircuts, speaking gig fees on talks about the poor and hedge fund fees, but was lazy; beer #10 says hi...

[clarice]

HEH-

[hit and run]

Blah, blah, blah: $1

Blah, blah, blah: $100

Blah, blah, blah: $100,000

TM quoting Geraghty: I'll be in my bunk (using the Ace of Spades formulation for dramatic effect only)

[JJ]

Nice catch Cecil Turner on the last line of the "Betray Us" ad. (Back in the "No Liberal Bias" post.)

That which said "Today" when the ad did, in fact, run that day and was THEREFORE not a standby ad.

I suppose this was obvious to most all but moi, but I depended on the Times denials and the jaw-dropper is that that little fact was not featured in any Times denial that I recall.

Just those pesky little facts that crash the accuracy. Just get in the way of a good outrage. Or outrage deflection.

[JJ]

...but John Edwards was accurate: All inner city kids are going to jail if we keep building too many jails.

No, no, that's not what he said. Those in jails are all inner city kids...

Help me out here. John?

[clarice]

New child molestation case--which means WENDY MURPHY is back. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!

[PeterUK]

How can you people mock John "Does my Subprime look big in this?" Edwards so?

[qrstuv]

You just don't understand how it works. I'll explain:

All Democrats are anti-racists. Everything they say and do proves this.

All Republicans are racists. Everything they say and do proves this.

Any questions?

[Neo]

The critics want to shut up Cosby, O'Reilly, me and anyone else who points out the crisis in black America. They want anyone who dares to speak publicly about problems in black America to fear being called a racist, if they are white, or a "Happy Negro" if they are black. They want silence so they can continue to make money by distorting black life and allowing black on black murder rates to climb along with the black dropout rate and the black poverty rate.

The critics want to paralyze efforts to help those locked in poverty and too often in a criminal culture where acceptance of drug use and violence becomes acceptable. They don't want black people to be known as Americans with a long distinguished history of patriotism, reverence for education and a willingness to fight for America's ideals — justice for all — despite the harsh facts of slavery and legal segregation.

They prefer to bash anyone who points out their tragic, mindless willingness to sell out the history and pride of black people to make a buck. But take this from the "Happy Negro." The critics are some Sad People.

[Gmax]

20% of college age black males in prison is bad if that is correct. What about the college age but not in college, i.e. working or in the military? What is the true percentage of the black male college aged population that is incarcerated?

If its 10% that is too high, but it would put it into perspective as to the magnitude of problem, be truthful that the problem is a small subset, not the entire population and be far less stereotypical and therefore condenscending.

[Gmax]

insert "less" before the last word and I communicate what I was thinking.

[Gmax]

insert "less" before the last word and I communicate what I was thinking.

[clarice]

There are four times more black men in college than in prison according to the latest figure I've heard. OTOH I wonder how many of them will find that a meaningful route given what I know of the state of inner city education. Of course, the fact that something like 70% of blak children are born into single parent households means that no amount of improvement in the school system is likely to offset that considerable disadvantage.

[Jane]

I think it is interesting to watch Juan Williams on this issue. In general he drives me nuts, but he has been out in front of the "blacks need fathers as well as mothers" issue for a long time. I think that sense of values makes most liberals cringe. He's been absent from Britt Hume since controversy with O'Reilly began. I wonder if he is having a bit of a conversion.

[kim]

Jason Whitlock is excellent, also. I'm supporting him for President.
=================

[clarice]

I mostly disagree with Juan--especially on foreign affairs. OTOH during the Thomas hearings he wrote in the WaPo of some of Hill's loony detractors:"They gave proof to the saying that Yale law school ruined more good Black minds than crack." And I'll always remember him with fondness for that.

[Rick Ballard]

Clarice,

The devaluation of the bachelor's degree continues apace. Blacks in college are doing much better today than they were 20-30 years ago. It's getting harder and harder to come up with decent advice for young Mordred and Henrietta.

The devaluation problem is going to hit home in 15-20 years wrt cost/benefit analysis. Considerably sooner for those taking degrees in the very soft fields, of course.

[kim]

How much of that effect, Rick, is from women not getting pregnant and leaving school?
=================================

[Rick Ballard]

Kim,

Dunno about the pregnant bit. I don't think that gender or race have anything to do with the overall devaluation. That's just a simple supply/demand scenario with a higher value assigned on the basis of scarcity.

The educrats are very close with statistics that would simplify evaluation of various degrees on a strictly economic basis. You can't blame 'em - how ya gonna keep the shell game going if people figger out there's no pea on the table?

[clarice]

Rick, It hits home earlier than that for many. I remember a young guy in my son's college class and dorm who entered (w/o sufficient background) intending to become a doctor. He told me he figured with a Harvard degree, he'd have no trouble getting into medical school and a good position. I told him that degree might help with his first job but after that performance beat sheepskin. He did'nt qualify for the regular science classes and couldn't even do well on the remedial ones.(Most of the pre-meds were so well-prepared they were forced by the school to begin at the 2d or 3d year science course level. I think he ended up in Black studies and is now undoubtedly working at some low paying job trying to repay his college loans.
He was from NY state and had applied in a year when the school was short of Black male applicants (except from the well- educated Carribeean). Had he gone to a community college to start, today he might actually be a doctor.

I have many more personal experiences like this because I used to help lots of minority kids with their college applications. The smartest Black girl (in fact, student of any race or gender) was going to go to some small college. I talked her into applying to Harvard where at 16 she was admitted. Three years later she double majored in business administration and law at Yale , then clerked for a federal judge and became an associate at a major national firm.
But I had no doubt she'd excel or I wouldn't have encouraged her to take that path.

[PeterUK]

Mr Ballard,
They are there already, the vast armies of overeducated unintelligent wielding their degrees like bludgeons upon a wilting society.
Those,of all colours and creeds,which the state decreed must have a degree are now besmirching civil society,they have read the book and yea verily they believeth the book.Education,social services,the police and justice system,equality,gender awareness,diversity training health and safety all suffer from the stultifying dead hands of the myrmidons of mediocrity.
The Invasion of the Body Snatchers has nothing on this.

[clarice]

Pls ignore my many typos--I am fighting off a cold/allergy and simply can hardly read what I write..

[PeterUK]

Clarice,
Hot lemon,honey and whiskey,much more fun than chicken soup.

[kim]

Put your hat on the bedstead, get into bed, and drink from a bottle of whiskey until you see two hats. That was the only piece of humour in a very long book I once tried to read.
==========================

[Ann]

Clarice,

I so admire you! I wish my daughter who is twelve had a woman in her life like you.

If you were giving advice now to a young girl looking for a college...
what would it be? What should she do now to help her resume and what colleges do you respect?

I hate the thought of spending so much money to have my daughter brainwashed.

[clarice]

Ann, I am more flattered than I can say. I think she should aim as high as she chooses and you should not tell her what she should study or where, but you should encourage her to realize that whatever she chooses, she has to find a way to pay for whatever standard of living she wants at the end of it. (I know a gal whose dream was art history and she makes a fine living working at Southeby's, but most art history majors live at a far more scale--and that's fine if that's truly that person's passion.)

It doesn't matter which college she goes to-- virtually all the liberal arts programs are likely to be infested with idiocy. She will have to either major in something not infected or learn to sift thru the dreck to find the gold.
By the time they go off to college, yours is a supporting role..you cannot shield them from all this foolishness.
You can help her before she goes by making her think of what it is she wants to study and the kind of environment she likes--consistent with her abilities and financial means.And of course by talking to her and helping her develop her critical thinking skills.
Each year before she goes, give her a bit more freedom to make personal choices. You cannot treat young people like children until some magic moment when you send them off and expect them to suddenly behave maturely.

Since she's twelve you might consider getting her a checking account. Talk to your banker about how to do this. Decide ahead of time what things she should pay for now out of her account. Also discuss the cost of college, and let her know well ahead of time, what portion of the costs you expect her to contribute to. When people are paying for schooling , they remember how hard they worked and are a bit more serious about it.

In her junior year, take her to nearby colleges of different sizes and settings (rural, urban,large, small). Stand back while she checks out the bookstores to see what they are reading in the courses she's interested in, eats in the dining rooms, looks at the bulletin boards and checks out how the students in each place act and look. These are all important in deciding where she'd be happiest.

[kim]

RCP has another nice article by Jason Whitlock about Jena.
====================

[Jane]

Okay, here we go (well here I go) the second (is it the second?) republican debate, Fred Thompson's debut moderated by Chris ("all republicans are criminals") Matthews and Maria Bartiloma - a name I cannot recall well enough to spell correctly.

The ongoing internet joke is that the debate is at 4:00 PM so Fred Thompson doesn't fall asleep. Harummph.

[Jane]

New records abound on Wall Street as we discuss "the economy and you".

We are at the U of Michigan. Chris Matthews seems a little depressed - as he should be.

1. economy is America's greatest strength, are we headed toward recession.

Fred: No reason to believe we are headed to recession, sites statistics. Re; The prosperity of the future - short term it is rosy but we are spending too much money because we have a mandatory spending problem.

2. Stock market are at highs but polls say otherwise. Why

Fred: There are pockets of problems, and the rest is the greatest story never told (I assume he means tax cuts)

Who should fix the problem of homes being repossessed in Michigan?

Mitt: It's everyone's problem. It's ridiculous that one state is having a recession. We have to fix schools, keep taxes low, mentions Grandholm, says he was afraid she would tax the debate; level the playing field around the country.

Matthews: Where are the billions that the private equity funds getting, coming from?

Rudy: The free market is a wonderful thing. The sky is the limit. President is not an economic forcaster. Keep taxes low, spending under control, frivolous law suits whics is 2.2 of our GNP (I didn't know that)

Matthews: Will Torre keep his job?

Gimme a break.

To Ron Paul - you have concerns about something financial/

Paul proves why every republican hates him. We have a recession in this country that only some people know about. We are living beyond our means because of foreign policy. Leave it to Matthews to give this guy the stage before McCain.

[Bill in AZ]

1st Q: ...but...but... 2/3 of the people think the economy sucks...
A. New York Times

2nd Q: Michigans economy sucks...
A: Labor

Then I heard fingernails scratching down a blackboard - oh, wait, that was chrissy talking... that's all I could handle.

[Jane]

McCain, how do you win back the middle class?

A vibrant economy creates wealth. We are losing industrial jobs and not taking care of those left behind. We have to curb costs of health care. Social security and medicare are going broke, we have to get spending under control. We should veto Schip and something else. We want to take care of children's health and we want to get people to smoke.

We should fix our tax code.

Huckabee, tell us about the Fair Tax. Won't that discourage spending?

Nothing discourages Americans from spending money. Fair tax untaxes productivity and exports. We will export products not jobs.
For lots of Americans economy is not doing well.

Duncan Hunter, do you agree with the Fair Tax? I'm a sponsor, but jobs going to China is a bad thing. This is also a security issue. We've fractured the industrial base and you all voted for most favored nation trading status for China. I'd put countervailing duties on china when it cheats.

Thompson: Free and fair trade has been good for America. I was for restrictions on the chinese. We shouldn't turn our back on that.

(Maria - no applause please)

Brownback - can you promise no tax increase.

"Yes" we are taxed to the max. Bad tax code. Optional flat tax is the way to go. It creates growth. Control spending. Have an annual process for cutting spending.

Tancredo, will you say "no new taxes"?

Absolutely. What pushes spending - it's not earmarks - it's mandatory spending - medicare and social security - you could cut all other spending and it wouldn't matter. You have to look at that third rail, or forget the talk about reducing spending. You better allow privatizing or forget the idea of reducing spending.

Re: tax cuts. Rudy: I did it 22 times. Tax cuts work. I believe it. I cut taxes by 9 m bucks. Mitt: I agree with the need to cut taxes - and you have to cut spending. The best tool is the line item veto, rudy was bad and tried to keep it.

[Jane]

Rudy - line item veto is unconstitutional. Spending went down in NY, spending went up in MA.

Cat fight. Mitt - I did not, I'm in favor of a line item veto. I don't think it is unconstitutional.

Rudy: The line item veto is unconstitutional. I'm in favor of it, but you have to do it legally. I took Clinton to Court and beat him and it's not bad to have a president who has beat president Clinton.

To Fred: Jobs: Jobs are lost and gained - you can't stop a free market economy because some people lose jobs. Mfcturing is an international industry but we can control costs, we need to open up foreign maarkets.

Hunter: Govts place is to make sure everyone plays by the rules. China devaluating its currency has put 1.8 million people out of work, president needs to change that.

- will we ever go back to a world where a wife doesn't have to work? (HUH?)

McCain: The economy is changed we have 50k people who make their living on ebay. We have to fix programs and stopped spending money on DNA of bears in Montana.

Tancredo: Govt is broken because of Mccain's position on illegals. (Yikes) every illegal costs us 20k

Re: Trade - US has lost $5m a day because of trade. are you a Bush republican on trade?

Mitt: Trade is good, but those making the deal are politicians and they are clueless. We need to change the agreements so they can't steal things from us. We need business people who actually understand the economy and business. We need China to float its currency.

Foreign acquisitions are at a record, but some countries are turned away. Is it protectionist or national security.

Rudy: we are going one way or the other. xdems are blocking trade with countries we could export more than we import to. That's dumb. We should think of foreigners as new customers? Should a Dubai company be allowed to own 20% of Nasdaq - yes with the proper vetting. We cannot stop doing business with the rest of the world.

Paul: Dubai - yes

Huckabee: depends on fair trade - we pay high tax and they don't

McCain: yes, pass security requirements, protectionism costs a very high price. rudy talked about the depression, McCain mentions WW2

Mitt: Of course We have to make sure the agreements are fair.

Thompson: Yes Nasdaq would gain 30% of the Dubai company and there appear to be no national security issues.

Hunter: NO because I don't trust them. Dubai (I'm spelling that wrong) sent some nuclear triggers to Baghdad.

[Jane]

Brownback - we can't walk away from free trade.

Hunter rebuts and I missed it.

Re: The alternative tax - Matthews says it is moving down because of inflation -

Thompson - we shouldn't confuse the wealth of gvt with the wealth of nations. huh? targeting the rich eventually targets the middle class. generally speaking lower tax rates grow the economy.

Matthews is sooooo subdued. He is still ridiculously annoying and I think he knows that.

[Rick Ballard]

Spittle Boy is definitely full of Ritalin this evening. Maria is actually more annoying this evening.

[Jane]

Has Bush policy toward Iraq been a good one?

Fred - the current policy is a good one. We didn't go in with enough troops but it has turned around. We need to come to terms with the threat, it's been going on for a long time and they are intent on bringing down the US and we need to deal with this front - it's only a front. The average 20 year old serving in iraq knows more than the average pol with 20 years of service.

Mccain you were critical:

We should have demanded more from our citizens after 911. I said the policy was failed 4 years ago, thank God the people have given us a second choice.

Would we have gone to Iraq if we weren't so dependant on oil.

Paul - we were told it was about oil and jobs. ( I don't think so) We are going broke. We create money out of thin air, and it is bankrupting our country.

Brownback - we didn't go to Iraq for oil, we went because of terrorism. We saw terrorism and WMD. I think the military has done great, Bush has done fairly well and we've done badly on the political side and Biden and I are going to carve it up into 3 pieces. (Some one tell the Iraqi's).

Fred said he believed there were weapons.

I said what was obvious, Saddam had them because he used them. If let to his own devices he would be developing a nuclear capability. You would have an entirely nuclearized part of the world.

Mitt, if you were president would you have to go to Congress to get permission to bomb Iran?

That's a question for the lawyers. The key thing is to hope that we don't have to use military sanctions against iran. It was outrageous for the UN to invite ahmadinejad and out ragious for columbia as well. I would take the action necessary.

Mathews - I want to get to the constitutional question - do you need congressional approval.

Hunter - depends on if the target is fleeting. If you have time get Congress' permission, otherwise, take responsibility.

Mathews: This is soooooooooooooooo important. Ron Paul

Yes we need permission, but not if it is fleeting. (Paul and Matthews sound alike, a high whiny scream)

Huckabee: President must do whatever is necessary to protect the people. If you have the time

If Congress says "no"..

You do what is best, you don't allow us to get hit by nukes because Congress is full of baffoons.

Mccain - you go to congress and get approval if you can, but you do what is best. This is a possibiliyt that is maybe closer to reality than we are discussing tonite.

Fred - conflict between the war powers act and congress. Any close call you should go to congress whether needed or not. You will need the people.

Hillary is proposing legislation to require president to go to COngress

Rudy: the president has to do what he has to do. We've had 23 plots since 911 and imminent attack is a possibility. We would take a strong position on Iran - HRC was asked that question and refused to answer it.

How will this country become oil independant?

Rudy: they would have less leverage if we were oil independant. Bio fuels, nuclear power. solar power, wind power. The federal gvt has to treat this like putting a man on the mood.

Do you support drilling off FL?

Rudy: You have to advance technologies.

Brownback - do you support drilling off FL?
You go where you have to. We need more electricity involved in our fleet. HUH?

Do you say yes to anwar?

Brownback - yes

Hunter: he wants to talk about trade deficits, because those are caused by oil. You better find every oil source you can,

Should the oil industry pay higher taxes or should they be forced to find answers.

McCain: I hope the industries want to. No requirement. I would not allow drilling in Fl unless Fl agreed. We have to address climate change and we can't let Russia, iran, Chavez to dictate oil policy.

Ethanol as been subsidized and is still expensive. Should the free market reign.

Huckabee: They have to be encouraged. We are in a race for our lives and a lot of the reason is oil. we give them money and it comes back in the form of terrorism. He tags onto Rudy's thing about putting a guy on the moon. Calls someone goober and gomer.

Thompson: The free market will determine if ethanol makes sense, we have to explore everything. When industry gets on its feet it will probably go away. Recession always follows a spike in oil prices.

We subsidize farmers - should we?

Mitt: It makes a difference that it is domestic - we don't want a fear crisis. One side is fear - global warming - etc. It's a great opportunity to lead. Business not bureaucrats writing the rules.

Matthews: Polls say republicans are the party of national security and values, but not the economy

Paul - who cares what he says, really. now let's get serious and get him off the stage, please.

[Rick Ballard]

Romney is a damned warmermonger. Just coming to that understanding was worth the time.

[Jane]

Huckabee: American Dream must be restored, we need more optimism. We need to overhaul the tax system.

McCain: Americans don't trust us - katrina, iraq, spending. We have to secure the borders and stop the wasteful spending. Hard choices, straight talk.

Mitt: Confidence - the future will be brighter than the past.

Thompson: Tell the American people the truth. Tell them what is on the line.

Rudy: The vision of a robust strong America. Energy, health care etc to sell abroad. We can't put a lid on ourselves. HRC wants to put a lid on us. Now HRC is giving everyone $1000 to a 401k, that has to be controlled.

Hunter: Jobs are being pushed off shore. We have to restore confidence. Get rid of the bad trade deals.

Brownback: Flat tax and optimism - they all caught Mitt's wave. Good.

Hunter: Wage rates go up and stop illegal immigration. Stop pandering to special interests. (Matthews tries desperately to cut away.)

[Jane]

Actually it was Huckabee's wave. My apologies!

[Sue]

Romney is a damned warmermonger.

I'm sure if I keep reading upthread, I'll know what you are talking about Rick. Looking at it without context is interesting.

[Jane]

Maria - social security -describe specifics.

Thompson: We have to deal with the issue - pitting one generation against the next. We need a going economy, low taxes, sound fiscal policy - let people provide for some of their own saving, index benefits to inflation instead of wages. That would give us a window of opportunity to solve the problem.

Re: Trade - is the problem that the Bush administration doesn't understand soemthing?

Tancredo - what worries me about trade is that we have included things that have nothning to do with trade. Trade issues begin to impact our national sovereignty

Should we end the employer based health care system>

Mitt - not replace it that's Hillarycare. Bring the market dynamics into it. Take the burden of free riders out. Don't spend more money, use the money we are spedning more wisely. Use private insurance and not gvt insurance. All medical expenses should be deductable.

Are unions good for America?

Paul - blahblah blah blah blah.

Huckabee: Unions will be more prominent in the future because CEO salaries are higher and higher.

McCain: Unions have played an important role. The key to unions is that people have the right not the obligation.

Mitt: Some good unions and some not so good ones.i.e. carpenter's union that provides skills.

Thompson: SAG is a union, have the right to band together, should not be forced, and dues should not be used for things that re bad.

Rudy: They serve a purpose. (Can you sing that song, Chris asks Rudy) There are good unions. There are bad ones.

Hunter: Steel workers union is good and I made them negotiate with goodyear.

Brownback: They have been good, my mother was in one.

My gawd why all this time on unions - what a joke.

Tancredo: Your mother didn't need a union because she was a civil servant. unions should not influence public policy when it comes to immigration.

The president said that GM and Ford need to produce a product that is relevant rather than look to WA for help, do you agree?

McCain - I agree, but we need to bring health care costs down. And he is against subsidies. And Reagan is spinning in his grave about free trade.

Thompson govt should not step in without a good reason. Gvt should relieve the disadvantage.

Matthews insults Thompson.

How would you police the internet culturally?

Rudy - it's a new serious area of crime. First we should not tax the internet. We should police for child predators, a task force to share info.

Should we have an FCC aagency for the internet?

Rudy, I'm not big on setting up new agencies. we should make the ones we have work better.

McCain - go after the money, no new agencies, get the child predators.

[Sue]

McCain: Americans don't trust us - katrina, iraq, spending. We have to secure the borders and stop the wasteful spending. Hard choices, straight talk.

He left off illegal immigration.

[Sue]

I'm sorry, I'll be quiet. I thought the debate was over...shhhhhh.....

[Jane]

We are on to the "Lightning Rod". I always thought it was called a Lightening round but I stand corrected by Maria.

Would you have vetoed Schip - Huckabee.

It was political not about children, and not vetoeing it would cause a huge problem. We didn't communicate well. I'm not sure I would veto because of the downside.

Mitt, Arabs feel bias, how would you change that?

We recognize the equality of all people but we have to be safe. Sheesh tell them to help with security

Thompson what are the dangers of a weak dollar. It hurts the economy but helps our exports.

Rudy, HRC says that our dollar goes overseas. That Hillary is so pessimistic, let's sell more goods.

Brownback who wwould be your economic advisor. I like Greenspan but you need a number of people.

Mccain, have interest rates been cut aggressively enough. I dunno, not my expertise.

Paul, do you promise to support the nominee of the republican party? No, not if they support the war. (Get off the stage)

Tancredo, I'm sick of choosing between the lesser of 2 evils so I won't support just anyone.

Brownback - yeah I will. They have to be pro-growth and pro-lfe.

Hunter - I will and will work with them. We need to remember life.

Rudy - will London replace NY as the financial capital of the world. No way - pick your head up. Stop with that stuff. We are the leader of the world. Everyone wants to be here and to copy us.

How do you explain business going to London.

We over regulate and over tax. everyone in the world wants to lower tax rates except the leading democrat candiadtes.

Mitt agrees says he would fix Sarbane Oxley. and support the nominataion. It's like Law and Order, it has a huge cast, it goes on forever and Fred Thompson shows up at the end.

Fred, who is the Prime minister of Canada?

Harper (Sheesh Chris playing gotcha) so why doesn't Canada get more attention. Then he tries to cut him off.

Huckabee how do you fix airline travel and how do you pay for it. Huckabee wants to because we have Jetsons in the cok=ckpit and
Flintstones on the ground.

McCain - how would you catch bin laden.

I'd establish and organization like the OSS and let them lose and and tell them to get him.

Mitt what is the greatest long term threat to the economy? The loss of optimism. We have huge problems but we have to recognize how great we are.

Brownback - breakdown of the family is the greatest economic threat over the long term.

Rudy - would it be good for the country to have a 3rd party option?

I think the biggest problem is education, and we need school choice and there is a problem with canada - if we have Hillary care where will the canadians go.

Fred, did you wait too long? No It was getting a little boring without me.

Chris - are we out of questions?

[Jane]

What an ass!

[Rick Ballard]

Jane,

Thank you once again for a great job!

Sue,

The warmermonger remark refers to Romney's all around pander to the idea that anthropogenic CO2 is the cause of global warming. I can go along with 'minor contributive factor wrt to the increase in CO2 levels' but "the cause" is simply idiotic.

Not impressive, although he is relatively sane in comparison to Tancredo, Paul and McCain. I thought Huckabee and Hunter did a good job.

[clarice]

Brava, Jane. If I were the Pres I'd want you to summarize all the blather for me.

[Jane]

I missed that Rick. I thought they ignored Rudy a bit much, thought Fred was fine altho nothing fab for his first debate, and someone needs to get a hook for Ron Paul.

[Extraneus]

Great job, Jane. I came here first just to get your take. Bravo!

[Rick Ballard]

Jane,

I thought Rudy did very well and Fred did fine too. Rudy snaps out retorts a little faster but Fred has an edge in likeability. Either one would be fine but I think that ignoring Mrs. Giuliani II's visceral feeling towards Mrs Giuliani III (and her husband) is an error. Mrs. Thompson I is reported to be on decent terms with Fred and the divorce was a very long time ago.

The gutters are going to overflow on this race and no one does gutter politics better than The Beast.

[Jane]

Thanks Ex,

Rick, I think the skeletons in Rudy's closet are real issues and I think the dems are saving them for a later date, but in every debate he comes across as the guy I want to believe in. I think Mitt is the smartest guy by far and I love Fred, but Rudy gets my visceral vote every single debate.

[Extraneus]

I agree they seem to be more worried about Fred than Rudy. We've already heard multiple attacks on Fred, from before he even got in, but have they attacked Rudy at all yet?

Jane, you mentioned Matthews insulted Fred, but I didn't get how from your comments. Can you shed any more light on that?

[Jane]

I can't remember the insult, but it may come to me and if it does I'll let you know. All Matthew's remarks are aimed at being cute. They just all backfire.

[Extraneus]

I think I found it. Is this the one?

Matthews Pops Off

[hit and run]

Jane, fabulous.

From geraghty:

Mitt Romney: This is our sixth debate, and I thought it’s like Law and Order – there’s a huge cast, it seems to go on forever, and Fred Thompson shows up at the end.

Heh, good line. This too, in response:

Fred Thompson: And to think, I thought I was going to be the best actor on this stage.

[Jane]

Yeah I think that was it. Matthews is such a pris.

[Jane]

Hey what's with TM? Is he away or something?

[hit and run]

A renowned theologian says of Bob Novak....

“I hope he’s going to confession, because otherwise he’s going to hell,”

Why, that's Joe Wilson, of course.

[Rick Ballard]

"Is he away or something?"

Not much joy in Mudville these days - if you know what I mean.

I thought sure that this would draw him out. We'll just have to wait until the Enron advisor writes another stoopid column. Won't be long.

[clarice]

I loved that piece so much, Rick, I blogged it.

[Elliott]

Jane,

Thank you once again for your excellent liveblogging. Despite your doubts, I'm pretty certain that you had the spelling of Dubai right.

I agree with you about Giuliani's visceral appeal in the debates. I thought he was fantastic in answering Hillary's claim that the greatest threat to America is the staggering amount of debt held by foreigners. Criticizing your opponent while positioning yourself as the optimist is always good footwork.

[PeterUK]

Jane is a bigger pull than John "Does my hair look real?" Edwards.

[JM Hanes]

Great stuff Jane! You're really good at this. Many thanks.

[kim]

Jane, you are storing up glory in heaven with this work. Not having to watch them is a mercy.

Rick, I have a bumper sticker for you:

"What's Next, Fat?"
===================

[Jane]

Thanks guys - you know it is weird, I always have to go back and read what I wrote to understand what went on. I understand what it must be like to be a transcriptionist. Plus I never learned to type - in my generation that would have forced me into being a secretary, so I miss those ingrained instincts. For some reason I like doing it tho. SO I'm in.

Oh and H&R stood me up last night. Harrumph!

[Jane]

Extreme Mortman looks at Maria Bartiroma's questions at the debate and finds them depressing:

# “Two-thirds of the American people said that we are either in a recession or headed toward one. Do you agree with that?”

# “Senator, you painted a very nice picture. The Dow and the S&P 500 today at new highs — tonight — record numbers. And, yet, two-thirds of the people surveyed said we are either in a recession or headed for one. Why the angst?”

# “Here in Detroit, Michigan, alone, one in every 29 homes went into foreclosure in the first six months of the year. Whose job is it to fix this problem? The government or private enterprise?”

# “Is London going to replace New York as the financial capital of the world?”

# “What is the greatest, long-term threat to the U.S. economy?”

# “Wall Street executives are making millions of dollars every year, paying tax rates of 15 percent, while the average guy out there is paying 30 percent in taxes. Is this system fair?

http://www.extrememortman.com/presidential-election/its-mourning-in-america/

[Sue]

Why, that's Joe Wilson, of course.

The dark one hit a nerve. Heh!

[Gmax]

Rick

A very remarkable article. The article does not point it out, but the nonscientist in the Department of Ag was an Asst Sec and thus a political appointee. Guess of whom?

Yep the peanut farmer himself.

So blend in George McGovern, Harvard, Jiminy Carter and a liberal political appointee in a position of power and you get years of worthless policy.

Anybody else see a "cascade" in the whole global warming nonsense? Same result may happen and take decades to unravel.

This should be read and understood by any Conservative thinking about sitting out a Presidential election. The ramification in screwed policies in all directions can not possibly be understated.

[Sue]

Rick,

That is the wildest article I've read. You could substitute global warming and have the same article. I wonder if the author of the NYTs article realizes that?

[Walter]

Is it time to start calling police stations and hospitals?

Or should we wait until he's been missing for a full week?

[clarice]

[VIMH]Do you suppose TM ran off with Other Tom?

[kim]

Pauliacs are Deaniacs, all hallowed out.
======================================

[kim]

Yes, Sue, Joe must be contemplating eternal damnation. Will Val turn on him?
==================================

[kim]

'Cascade' will be the word of the decade, as we cool. It explains a lot. Even clotting, which is what Hansen and Mann did to the flow of truth.
================

[Jane]

Do you suppose TM ran off with Other Tom?

Gawd knows, but I miss them both.

[clarice]

Me, too, Jane.
I wonder if "cascading" applies to those focus groups? I never have seen such odd results.

[Sue]

The last post by TM was about Kos. Do you think they have him?

I hate to put my signature ::grin:: here but if I don't, some moonbat will accuse me of being serious. ::grin::

[Topsecretk9]

Influence Peedler

According to multiple sources and independent confirmation from agency officials, the Justice Department currently is honing in on the possible misuse of campaign money by Members and political candidates for personal country club dues, health club fees, non-campaign-related travel costs and other expenses that candidates are prohibited from paying out of their campaign war chests.

The Federal Election Commission also confirmed that it currently is investigating 10 embezzlement cases involving federal campaign committees — four more than its entire caseload in half a decade...

...The piece mentions one specific Republican -- a former Congressman -- and a current sitting Democratic Congressman. Clearly there will be more.

[Rick Ballard]

Gmax,

I consider the Times article to be a warning to its logically impaired reeaders that AGW may come apart faster than anticipated. The article did not go into spurious correlation nor even explore the difference between correlation and causation. Given the logical skill of the average Time's reader, that's completely understandable.

They do respond to herd signaling, though, and I believe that the Time's is signaling the herd to step aside so that they are undamaged by the AGW cascade landing right on their dunce caps.

[Sue]

Have these people lost their minds? They are banning smoking in their homes and it is taxes from cigarettes that is to pay for SCHIPS?

Thought to be the first of its kind in California, the ordinance declares secondhand smoke a public nuisance and extends the city's current smoking ban to include multi-unit, multi-story residences.

http://www.nbc11.com/news/14307719/detail.html>Source

[Sue]

I'm sure glad they are fighting for my right to choose and for my privacy. Whatever would I do without them?

[Jane]

I love the new CA mantra: "WE can still hate George Bush and clean up the homeless people".

That's not an exact quote, I can't remember where I read that.

Can anyone explain what that is supposed to mean?

[clarice]

Presumably, they tolerated this to show their moral superiority to Bush whom they hate. But they got tired of people crapping on their front steps and decided acting in their best interests was not inconsistent with continuing to hate the President, Jane.

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