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September 19, 2007



Ugh, two Krugman posts in a row. Have you no mercy TM?

Patrick R. Sullivan

This exchange is pretty bizarre:

Frank Brokaw, Greenwich, Conn.: Mr. Krugman is mistaken in one particular of his reference to the fate of South Vietnam. Were he to consult the public record, it would show that that in-country field operations by U.S. ground forces were terminated by October of 1970, but that the Republic did not fall till Easter of 1975. The Army of the Republic, ARVN, supported through 1974 by U.S. logistical and supply-chain infrastructure, maintained the RVN’s territorial integrity without U.S. ground forces assistance for nearly five years. Supply-chain support was terminated by Congress in 1974. and the ARVN literally ran out of fuel, ammo and parts. Look up the public record. It’s not Bush propaganda.

Paul Krugman: It’s an untrue story: that last vote was pro forma, Kissinger actually decided to let South Vietnam fall after a “decent interval” in 1972. Rick Perlstein wrote it all up in The New Republic last year.

The vote didn't count because they had kingsies?


Someone's still citing TNR as authority?


See what TNR says about Mukasey? I say he's buddy buddy with Schumer, and I say the hell with it.


Well its Krugman. He seems to latch onto lots of slender reeds in support of dubious conclusions so its neither surprising nor without precedent. It does show how far he needed to go to find any support for speciousness.


All that 'restoring the Department of Justice's relationship to Congress' was enough to make me chunder. It's a part of the Executive Branch, morons.


More wisdom from Krugman, the man who has been predicting the Bush economy apocalypse every day since 2001. However, job creation, GDP growth, stock market durability, export growth, and low unemployment have been maddeningly stubborn in his eyes.
Due to the cyclical nature of economies, someday he will be right. And he'll crow about how he predicted a downturn "years ago."


Kissinger had the power of the purse? You know Cheney's just kicking himself now.


BTW, on the merits, Perlstein (and thus Krugman) are meretricious.


I don't know about spitting, I do know about a garbage can of raw sewage that ended up flying out of the hands of one of the great unwashed protesters and all over my husband's dress whites with him inside them and IN FRONT OF his wife and son. I know that an employer told me I wouldn't be hired because my husband was active duty. And I know that we were turned away at an apartment complex that had a sign that said "no pets or sailors."

Krugman can kiss my A$$.

Oh, and ask the POWs if things got better for them or not once Nixon began the bombing. The anti-war types did nothing to help end the war, all they did was denigrate and humiliate those who were serving honorably.

Ralph L

I thought we covered the spitting topic last winter. I remember posting somewhere that after my brother's brother-in-law (Navy Ensign) drowned in a ship collision in 1969, someone called his mother to say he'd gotten what he deserved. Never underestimate the nastiness of some Americans.


Ugh, this blog is becoming a one-note samba. Should I lighten my RSS feed?

Ralph L

The NYT is what the military calls a target-rich environment.

Crunchy Frog

"Paul Krugman's new blog promises to be a target rich source of prevailing lefty orthodoxy and fantasy."

In other news, the sun rose in the east today.

Ken Larson

I am a 2 tour Vietnam Veteran who recently retired after 36 years of working in the Defense Industrial Complex on many of the weapons systems being used by our forces as we speak. I believed another Vietnam could be avoided with defined missions and the best armaments in the world.

It made no difference.

We have bought into the Military Industrial Complex (MIC). If you would like to read how this happens please see:


Through a combination of public apathy and threats by the MIC we have let the SYSTEM get too large. It is now a SYSTEMIC problem and the SYSTEM is out of control. Government and industry are merging and that is very dangerous.

There is no conspiracy. The SYSTEM has gotten so big that those who make it up and run it day to day in industry and government simply are perpetuating their existance.

The politicians rely on them for details and recommendations because they cannot possibly grasp the nuances of the environment and the BIG SYSTEM.

So, the system has to go bust and then be re-scaled, fixed and re-designed to run efficiently and prudently, just like any other big machine that runs poorly or becomes obsolete or dangerous.

This situation will right itself through trauma. I see a government ENRON on the horizon, with an associated house cleaning.

The next president will come and go along with his appointees and politicos. The event to watch is the collapse of the MIC.

For more details see:



only Superman can save us now

Ralph L

Our constitution inhibits a superman. Even FDR and Lincoln didn't get everything they wanted. Having worked for Pentagon contractors, I agree that military contracting/procurement is a mess--it always has been. The government spends twice what it needs to when trying to prevent fraud and waste. But as a percentage of GNP, it's a smaller mess than it was in the 50's and 60's.


Superperson please.


speaking of death and legends. Dan Rather is suing CBS for $70 million saying they ruined his reputation. ROFL.


Oh, man, lefties are livid!! Warner is no longer supporting Webb's bill to break the military in the middle of a war!

Debate is raging--I mean raging--on the Senate floor.

Rick Ballard

"Debate is raging--I mean raging--on the Senate floor."

Why do I keep hearing "Dueling Banjos" as a background theme?


What the hell is this guy smoking or drinking or shooting up or whatever.

Take it from someone who lived through those days there was a lot more than spitting going on.

And as for this being Bush's war, it should be remembered that Democrats voted for it too, just like they voted for the Iraqi Liberation Act.

These people either have amnesia or they think everyone else does.

Ralph L

Will CBS counter-sue?
It's strange watching Webb become what he once despised. He's like the River Kwai Colonel.


"...the right never had sole ownership of Vietnam." In fact, the Vietnam conflict began under Kennedy and was greatly expanded by LBJ. Last time I checked, both were Democrats.


Oh,come on people,being a liberal means never having to say you're sorry.


Stone's take on it is particularly
ridiculous because it reverses the
reality of anti-war sentiment against
the troops; if they weren't Eichmann's
in Churchill's view; they were at least
Wehrmacht. The formerly gifted economics
professor has turned into a splenetic cross between Comandante Guzman (the Shining Path
leader) & John Nash. As to Mssr. Larson, apparently we shouldn't have any reservoir
of experience of military, intelligence, &
foreign policy experience that is SAISC. I'm sure he holds the same brief against Haliburton, Blackwater, & Bechtel. I'm sure he has no argument with the Sorosian CAP, whose top staff includes Mort Halperin, who rationalized Agee's 'burn notice' treatment against active CIA officials; one of which was executed as a result. The work that Cryptome & Germany's Geheim have continued to purvey. Or the diplomatic backstop that is the Middle East intitute, flush with Wahhabi cash. Or any other outfits to consider.

Speaking of promotions for undermining policy; Kappes has finally gotten his mutinous associate against Goss; Sulick
has gotten his reward as chief spook; according to Newsweek. Seeing that Goss
wanted to shake up the flawed Operational culture; I guess it's business as usual once
again; thanks to Hayden; who one recalls softened policies in response to the film
"Enemy of the State"
as Goss was in favor of shaking up


I think we know which economist was counseling Pinch to maintain the Great Firewall of TimesSelect - he is going to have to defend his drivel now.

“To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed…”
- George Orwell, 1984

Now that pretty much sums up the "spitting on a soldier" story .. or lack thereof. After Petraeus .. betray us, time to show that soldiers always lie about being abused.

I question the timing. I mean it.

Meanwhile, we have Congress with "this approval" vs "dis-approval". One of these is setting new records,.

Cecil Turner

It's strange watching Webb become what he once despised.

Yeah, but he's always been a strange duck. He was an ardent Democrat until Vietnam (and particularly Carter's amnesty, which even many military types supported), when he switched to a lukewarm RINO. He was perfectly awful as SecNav, and now has come full circle to obstructionist anti-war type looking for a back door to making it impossible to wage war. But it looks like this one's dead on arrival:

The 56-44 vote - four short of reaching the 60 needed to advance - all but assured that Democrats would be unable to muster the support needed to pass tough anti-war legislation by year's end.
Watching Warner's reversal was rare entertainment. He spent several minutes citing Webb's altruistic motives, a defense that only the most gullible of rubes could swallow. But then said military leaders had convinced him "they cannot do it." Like "duh" . . . as if that wasn't the whole point of the bill, or that Webb wasn't well aware of it.


The blogger Bill Quick has admitted, he says, to have spit on a number of soldiers during the war.

And a report compiled after the Democratic Convention in 1968 documented that protesters spat on National Guard and Chicago police during the protests.

Not soldiers, admittedly; but if they had the willingness to spit on Guardsmen I doubt that they would have had much reticence to spit on uniformed soldiers.

I doubt - scratch that - I know that we'll never reach common ground on this story.



And if Dr. Krugman wishes to read this:

It is difficult to report publicly the ugly and vulgar provocation of many of the militants. They spat on some of the soldiers in the front line at the Pentagon and goaded them with the most vicious personal slander. Many of the signs carried by a small number of militants . . . are too obscene to print

James "Scotty" Reston, Oct. 21-21, New York Times, A-1



The other bit of crazy ness belongs on the other thread; about really flawed economic
theorizing tied to asinine political spouting; Garrett Keiser, a guest "Notebook"
editor at Harper's; apparently the last one,
who published an incitement of violence against the President, about a year back, makes patrician moonbat Lewis Lapham seem too moderate; his great idea to protest the
Iraq War /or more likely push us into recession; a national general strike on November 7th; Another story in this same issue is bylined by Naomi Klein; the Canadian anti-globalist which compared the
US invasion and the provisional government
to Pol Pot's "Year Zero" and wished a bit
of the spirit of the Mahdi Army to visit NY
in 2004. the peg for her chapter and her upcoming book is that capitalism is no unnatural; it can only exist in times of
social crisis; Isn't that precisely backwards. Hey, let's just surrender to
Al Queda, accept Sharia law and cut out the
middle man. Harper's one recalls did a story
on the Republican Convention last time, that
'came from the future'; had a story on Iraq
war deserters, which was surrounded by pictures of people who turned out not to be deserters; took the peak oil kooks seriously

Terry Gain

It's been Bush's war up to now but this is about to change. Everybody loves a winner and the signs of victory are becoming more evident with each passing day. The liberation of Iraq will soon have many fathers.

And as they scramble back onto the bandwagon they will lie every bit as easily as Krugman. Fortunately there is a record which even Hillary won't be able to deny.


Heh, I take it most people here don't think much of Krugman. Actually, I do wonder just why blogs continue to read his banter...but I would guess that somebody has to explain his far left philosophy.

Still seems that if a player if from the N.Y. Times, they get play...too bad. I have hopes for the future though...


speaking of death and legends. Dan Rather is suing CBS for $70 million saying they ruined his reputation. ROFL.

Summary Judgement. Then just depose Mary "still on the story" Mapes. Seriously, she is the only person needed.

Barry Dauphin

It is difficult to report publicly the ugly and vulgar provocation of many of the militants. They spat on some of the soldiers in the front line at the Pentagon and goaded them with the most vicious personal slander. Many of the signs carried by a small number of militants . . . are too obscene to print by James "Scotty" Reston, Oct. 21-21, New York Times, A-1

Yeah, but Krugman doesn't actually read the Times, he just writes for it.



It's been Bush's war up to now but this is about to change.

I think there is a bad moon rising that will put the Iraq War into the shadows-can't quite put my finger on it...but I think we are in for a nasty surprise during the UN's pow wow coming up in a few days.


The lies told by Krugman is a feeble attempt to wash the blood of 3 to 5 million people off of his hands. Yes he has his share of it as everyone that has voted for a democrat since 1970 has. The spitting and throwing stuff at the military members did happen. I returned from the Far East three times and was warned not to wear the uniform of the United States military in the United States. I was ashamed of the democrats them and am today, even though I left the party in 1979 when the world figured out how really stupid Dimmy Carter was, that is the world except for the left wing anti-american democrats. They know but are too weak kneed to admit it, as they are weak kneed about protecting America today. Well, weak kneed and jello backboned.

Terry Gain

I seem to recollect a lot of good posts from you so I'm curious as to whether you are prescient or spooked. So far my sense of how the Surge would play out is bang on.


It would take an idiot to call the war in Iraq, Bush's war. How many democrats voted for the war? The same ones that stated that there was WMD in Iraq in the late 90 and up past 2001. They now claim the privilege of lying and saying they didn't and don't support the war. That makes all but one democrat in congress a bold faced lier and there's not one there that I won't say that to they're face. The sheeple that follow the democrat liars and lick their crack after every dump are no better.


Oh,come on people,being a liberal means never having to say you're sorry.

No, being liberal is never admitting you have anything to be sorry about.

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Krugman, Schmugman. I'd much rather Rather.

Rick Ballard

OT -

Miz Clinton's Crooks are back in the news - Hsu suckers are after his assets and there's a new player in fraudulent bundling.

Perhaps they can get together and form a Clinton Racketeers Chapter?


'It's odd, you do something that looks illegal as hell, and you come under scrutiny'

clarice feldman

Rick, It's even better--the Wa Po reports that Toricelli is one of Hillary's bundlers.


This is what they mean by international consensus.


No, I am serious. Connections to the thugs in all the ethnic groups with connections all over the world. Joe Wilson advising.

Ralph L

Kim, money talks, so she knows she's getting more than lip service approval from "the international community." It builds her confidence and self-esteem, and affirms her cosmopolitianality.


Voters already bored and annoyed by the campaigns.


And Shrum ("I'm going to fight for you") is not even handling a candidate this time.

Ralph L

Shrum was always trying to butch up some effete candidates, which was probably counter-productive. I think boredom has more to do with non-partisans' attitudes to Iraq than the long trickle of US fatalities.
Another day, another car bomb.

Rick Ballard

"Shrum was always trying to butch up some effete candidates"

Miz Clinton certainly obviates that problem.

It may be that the McCauliff/Clinton 24/7/12/365/eternal campaign strategy wasn't as spectacularly brilliant as it was advertised to be. If, as it is said, DC is Hollywood for ugly people, the public's reaction is certainly understandable. "More" /= "better" when you're talking about additional exposure of the esthetically challenged.


Everyone with a temperature knows that the candidates all play to the base during the primaries, then move to the middle--necessitating some ridiculous tapdancing. And they know these debates are idiotic--just blurbs to stay on the above-described course without making a fatal gaffe.Tell me again , oh pundits, that Fred erred in entering the race too late and should have spent his time raking in millions to piss away on the virtually meaningless Iowa caucus and NH primary.

Ralph L

They got Kerry the nomination. Of course, the parties act differently, thankfully.

Rick, what I hate (second) most about Bill Clinton is his overwhelming need for attention. First has to be his smarminess.


If Rudy Guiliani's handlers are paying attention, they will put Rudy front and center in a wall of bodies to protect and defend the sacred site at Ground Zero from being defiled by the likes of a Holocaust denying Truther.

Think about the publicity he would gather by making it known that he intended to hold a silent rally at the site on the day of this vile and disgusting creatures visit to the UN.


Looks like Sunday might be interesting, according to Drudge:

"Sen. Hillary Clinton will be guest on FOX News Sunday w/ Chris Wallace this Sunday -- one year after the combative exchange between Chris Wallace and Bill Clinton... And the exact day that the Congressional Black Caucus debate was supposed to be held in Detroit that she boycotted... Developing... "

Oh, I do hope Chris Wallace has some questions about her Hsu refunds that the donors claim they haven't received, despite Wolfsen's statements that they have been.


Suitably Flip (who is doing an excellebt job on the Hsu deal) --- has an email

....I know this because I was a donor who had my arm twisted to make a contribution to Hillary Clinton’s campaign on behalf of Norman Hsu and I haven’t seen a dime returned.

....After three calls to the Hillary Campaign (703 469 2008) no one knew who was responsible for returning these donations. Now that seems strange as the press appear to believe Howard Wolfson is a senior representative of the Clinton campaign as they quote him frequently. ...

and I am sorry, Source Financing - Woodstock Rosenman doesn't seem like the innocent little victim he's so desperate to portray

...Out of all of us who invested in SFI and were "asked" to contribute to Hillary Clinton's election campaign I have only heard one person say he was told "the check was in the mail" when he called the Hillary Campaign offices to complain. As far as I know he has not received it yet.
Rick Ballard

Wallace should lead with: "Miz Clinton, if health care is such a concern to you, why don't you propose some legislation to fix it as part of your day job? What's stopping you? Inexperience, incompetence or the fact that you don't have a damn thing to run on should the legislation pass?


TSK9 - Yup. Like I said, I hope Mr. Wallace has a question or two about those "refunds" and also, what charity received the $23K (plus or minus).


Cent -- I have to dash but I do have a comment to your 1:49

I think Wallace should do a totally nicey nice softball interview and I will tell why in a few


TSK9 - I think I know where you are going and I agree.


Cent- Yep - I think you know where I am going. Hill is looking for a little Bill-Wallace finger pointing redo to rile the nutty nutroots in order take cover from her fundraising problems - Wallace should be nice and screw her nutroots cred - Hillary part of Fox and the VRWC.

Riiiiiiight poor innocent Source Financing -- you are selling the same bridge Hsu was...

The lawsuit brought by Source Financing Investors LLC says Hsu fooled investors into believing they were financing an operation to supply Chinese-made clothes to U.S. retailers when in fact he was running a Ponzi scheme, in which initial investments are repaid with money from subsequent investments until the operation collapses.

fooled -- uh huh


Flip has this too:

This past Monday, a search of the items recovered during Hsu's arrest in Grand Junction revealed a laptop, a Blackberry, thousands of dollars in cash, hundreds of thousands of dollars in checks from alleged victims, bank receipts showing millions of dollars in Hsu's accounts, and hand-written ledgers detailing the many illegal contributions that authorities say Hsu instructed his straw donors to make.

this mans is looking at no good future -- he's gonna talk.

Rick Ballard


Do you think that The Beast instructed Wolfson to lie or was he just lying because he thinks a Clinton associate can always get away with it? Lying about giving the boodle back may hurt her more than taking the money from crooks in the first place.

After all, everyone expects a Clinton to be associated with thieves.



I seem to recollect a lot of good posts from you so I'm curious as to whether you are prescient or spooked. So far my sense of how the Surge would play out is bang on.

Spooked-but not about Iraq.


The same ones that stated that there was WMD in Iraq in the late 90 and up past 2001. They now claim the privilege of lying and saying they didn't and don't support the war.

Preaching to the choir on this. One could extend this to the UN support for the Iraq sanctions and embargo regime. It is pretty clear the prior international support for "Saddam's cage" was to keep sanctions in place and the amazing rehabilition of Saddam's Iraq into a kite-flying paradise is a response to the elimination of those sanctions. The current Wyatt trial is a window, but doesn't go anywhere near enough.

At this point I can't figure out what the purpose of the "anti-war" movement is. Granted they have some trying to relive the glory days of the late-1960's, but what was the point of the Gen. Petraeus ad. The military is the most respected of all government institutions and political pressure isn't going to get him relieved. It was gratuitous and stupid.


It was gratuitous and stupid.

Gratuitous maybe, stupid no. It has us talking about moveon not Hsu, it has us talking about moveon not the progress in Iraq. It has worked, in my opinion, for what they wanted. The cynic in me wonders if OJ is also on the payroll of Hillary. Nice timing if he isn't.



It has us talking about moveon not Hsu, it has us talking about moveon not the progress in Iraq. It has worked, in my opinion, for what they wanted. The cynic in me wonders if OJ is also on the payroll of Hillary.

The cynic in me says the Craig story was the killbot on the Hsu story, and I'm pretty sure the Ickes "foot-dragging, f*** you" strategy will bury the rest of it. The MoveOn "Betray Us" campaign pre-dated the Hsu story by a couple of weeks and was probably intended to personalize the favorability ratings of the military in the form of Gen. Petraeus and the launch of a negative campaign against him [he's been in for more than 30 years I'm sure there are a few undotted i's and uncrossed t's that could be used to dirty him up or they can go to the old standby and make stuff up] would push the favorability ratings of the military down [and would explain the seperate, but related, Hollywierd full on anti-military campaign].


Talk about spitting on the military:

25 Senate Democrats Support “Betray Us”, Including Hillary



Runaround Hsu


On Fox right now-

Hsu's been charged with fraud by the feds in NY....


On our local talk radio http://www.wbap.com/sectional.asp?id=8659>WBAP Mark Davis interviewed Gen. Wesley Clark. You really need to listen to the interview if you want to hear a general that is a pompous ass.


Rick--- the press are their co-conspirators

Moveon and Democrats PR firmFenton scrubbed this from their website, but it's cached

4. Online documents help reporters in a pinch

When you've got a breaking story, a limited window to alert press and a 100+ page document as your centerpiece, the Internet can be a lifesaver.

That's what happened in April when Fenton publicized a class action lawsuit accusing AOL and Time Warner executives of pocketing nearly $1 billion in illegal insider trading before the merger, and bilking millions from investors in the process.

In just three days, we contacted top-tier media and made their jobs easier by posting the entire complaint online on the website for Milberg Weiss Bershad Hynes and Lerach LLP, the law firm representing the plaintiffs. Fenton then conducted a telephone press conference so that the lead attorneys could walk reporters through the story, reference key parts of the complaint, and answer questions.

Making lawsuits and long research reports available online can save both you and the media time and money. Another tip: if the news is not public yet, make sure to create access codes for reporters so they have access but also understand that a news embargo is in place until the official public announcement.

they also have these helpful tips

Create and fax to reporters a one-page "expert source" letter detailing your spokesperson's expertise, credentials and media experience. Encourage recipients to keep it on file for future stories, and make the case for why your spokesperson should be their go-to source on the issue. You'd be surprised how many keep these and call months later for comment.

Build relationships with reporters covering your issue by thanking them for good stories and providing your own perspective when stories break.

The best way to get in stories is to drive them yourself through media outreach on a campaign. Aside from the coverage itself, you will develop media relationships and learn who covers what. Focus on print and online first, since many journalists search past articles to find their sources.

Who exactly, are the McChimpy Monkeys? If a GOP firm tried this the reporters would be so offended and would hang up, pronto.

Via MMalkin:

Clinton aides believed Hsu had gotten their rooms on a complimentary basis because he was a frequent visitor to Mandalay Bay, the aides said.

Harry Reid anyone?


Does anyone know who bailed Hsu out the first time? I think I read somewhere that Rosenman's company bailed him out.


He paid it by certified checks is what I read.


Sue: I read your post above as "Weasley Clark," then realized my eyes were blurry.

After reading your post, I prefer General Weasley Clark!


So why isn't the FBI investigating the recipients of Hsu's funds as they did with Abromoff?


TSK9: I see that Sunday talk shows will be all Hillary all the time this weekend, so it appears Wallace doesn't have an exclusive - she is appearing on them all.

So, now I really do hope that Chris doesn't softball his questions to her. For sure, Big Russ, Steph, Bob S., and Wolfie will all be doing enough of that!


So why aren't the Source Financing investors suing Source Financial

this money still has not been returned – at least not to me. I know this because I was a donor who had my arm twisted to make a contribution to Hillary Clinton’s campaign on behalf of Norman Hsu and I haven’t seen a dime returned. ...

Out of all of us who invested in SFI and were "asked" to contribute to Hillary Clinton's election campaign I have only heard one person say he was told "the check was in the mail" when he called the Hillary Campaign offices to complain. As far as I know he has not received it yet.

Since when does an investment company force investors to donate to a political campaign to please the investEE?


Good point Cent.



Who exactly, are the McChimpy Monkeys? If a GOP firm tried this the reporters would be so offended and would hang up, pronto.

Wha...the msm only re-write the talking points they are handed and they call it news...


So why isn't the FBI investigating the recipients of Hsu's funds as they did with Abromoff?

The FBI's problem is that if they target the Hillary! campaign [and its target rich: Berger, Maculliff, Ickes] and don't derail it, then everyone that works on the investigation will be under "pressure" from Pinhead Hillary! Also I'm sure most of the FBI would welcome the refreshing change Clinton II will bring because tracking terrorists is so blase, much easer to track Republicans.


hmmmm....this was in the complaint and Michelle Malkin highlight a portion, but I am going to highlight what I think is iteresting --- cooperation

Hsu contacted FBI agents last Thursday and said he “wanted to speak with them about his current criminal activity without his lawyers present.” During a September 14 meeting with Hsu, who was imprisoned in Colorado on an outstanding warrant from California, the swindler waived his Miranda rights and admitted his operation of a multimillion dollar investment scheme.He **also** acknowledged that he “made implied threats to his investors to pressure them to contribute to political candidates he supported.” But the complaint, which was unsealed today in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, does not identify the federal candidates to whom Hsu steered money.

He didn't have to admit that and out of the presence of his attorneys --- he knew it was a given they get enough on him without admitting anything.



He didn't have to admit that and out of the presence of his attorneys...

Why would the Hillary! campaign use a convicted felon and fugitive to launder "campaign donations"?

Complaint Hot Air take


Is anyone else hoping the Rather lawsuit makes it to discovery so each side can point out the other's utter negligence in the matter. I think that would be so much fun.

Rick Ballard


I'm really looking forward to the deposition of Lucy Ramirez. Just to establish the actual provenance of the memos for all time, of course.

The complaint was entertaining. Not a particular credit to the legal profession in terms of factual content but very entertaining.


Jane, of course I think we all are. I want it to go all the way to court! I want to learn who Lucy Ramirez is. (Stupid Mary Mapes needed to make up a name and I betcha Lucy Ricardo led to Lucy Ramirez.) And, I think Mary and Dan typed up the fake but accurate documents themselves.

Okay, I have had my fun (but, I am starting to sound like a Ron Paul supporter - IOW, nutso)!


Hey there is a democrat debate on PBS. I just found it. I'm not sure I can bear to watch it.


Ooooh only Edwards, Biden, Clinton, Richardson and maybe Kucinich are there. No Obama. So far it's all about health care.


Not kucinich, Dodd.


ding bat Mary "still on the story" Mapes....just posted at ...drum roll please...Huffington Post, natch



Well I can't resist.

Dodd says he can bring people together to pass health care.

what about home health care aides?

Dodd: (gawd Hillary's ass just keeps getting fatter)

He wants to give $1 billion to local communities for home health care. WOw.

Biden: He wants to make it like paying for foster care. He can afford it(he's bilking the taxpayers in his own way.) He doesn't know how to do it but he would.

Richardson would give a care-giver credit, plus he will restore ss to mothers while they are at home - the credits for old age, not at the time; He will give long term care.

Hillary says her mother "lives with us". (Who does Hillary live with?)

it's a 300billion dollar cost to replace the care that comes from love.

(Oh please) and President Bush is supporting the tobacco industry instead of healthcare.

Edwards - you would repeal the tax cuts but that's not enough money so will you raise taxes on the "very wealthy" in the meantime.

Edwards reminds us he was the first with a health care plan. He has laid out a very specific health care proposal which includes raising the capital gains tax to 27% to treat work with dignaty. (Big applause)

Richardson disagrees with how you pay for it. shift the 1/3 of administration cost, and eliminate the war and something else.


Edwards limits insurance company profits to 15% and the country has been misled because it's not free.

oooh lobbyists money. To edwards. Is Clinton's proposal influneced by lobbyists. "no absolutely not, because it is a clone of my plan".

Hillary smirks.

You can't sit at the table with insurance company lobbyists and get universal healthcare. The system in Washington is broken.

Hillary "been there done that" It was lonely 15 years ago, but i never gave up. And I think it's tremendous that my lonely struggle is being adopted by all democrats.

The repubs don't have a clue. But we need a political coalition. (Can you say "Move-on") My experience means I can get it done this time.

Dodd - Ct is big on insurers. What about eliminating insurers. We just need control and oversite of the insurers. My plan is a national plan. We need to pull people together. (Hear that move-on). We need leadership in the country that can get that job done.

Richardson - I'm the only one here who has dealth with that issue directly. The bad Bush cuts hurt our kids, but i got rid of junk food.


MAN -- Learch's partner just indicted

This just in: A federal grand jury has indicted Mel Weiss for his involvement in an alleged class-action kickback scheme that has led to the indictment of the firm he co-founded in 1972. If convicted of the four counts in the second superseding indictment, Weiss faces up to 40 years in prison. Here are copies of the indictment and press release, which says he’s expected to be arraigned on October 15.

The second superseding indictment adds Weiss as a defendant and expands the scope of the alleged criminal conduct. The new indictment now alleges that the firm received approximately $250 million in attorneys’ fees over the past 25 years in lawsuits in which it paid individuals to act as named plaintiffs.

Weiss, Mel
Oyster Bay , NY 11771
Milberg Weiss/Attorney CLINTON, HILLARY RODHAM (D)
primary 06/14/07
Weiss, Mel
Oyster Bay , NY 11771
Milberg Weiss/Attorney CLINTON, HILLARY RODHAM (D)
general 06/14/07

and so on.


Biden: There is a growing consensus about the fact that the system doesn't work but you are tip-toeing around whether or not we should have a government run health care. "No" we should eliminate financing - of elections I think. "I love Hillary Clinton" (oh dear) What makes you think Hillary or John can pull over 15% of the republicans. What's the record of getting people in the red states to vote for this. We need 15-20% of the republicans.

Richardson: I can manage health care.

Single payer system? No says the entire panel.

Re: Greenspan - medicare is a long term crisis and medicare by wealthy seniors will have to be self funded. Hillary disagrees. In the first Clinton administration we were dealing with all the challanges because we had fiscal responsibility - we had a balanced budget - gawd she lies like a rug. We just need more preventive care. The costs won't be shifted when everyone is insured.

Edwards - we passed the patients bill of rights - Bush stopped it. Drug company lobbyists are evil. All the democrats wanted to stop it but because of evil washington the drug companies wrote the bill. We have to take power from the insiders.

Dodd - Greenspan is hostile to medicare and social security. Greenspan is wrong.

Gawd I am bored.

We are determined to keep social security and medicare.

Biden: Greenspan is protecting the stake-holders.

Richardson Greenspan is wrong because veryone deserves healthcare. We have to face the fact that social security is at risk. No privatization.


Question: Social security is not sustainable:

Hillary - the republicans never wanted us to have social security and medicare. When my husband left office ss was fine to 2055 - now we have lost 14 years bcause of Bush's fiscal irreponsibility, let's stop funding Iraq and put that money in social security.

Biden; She is right. raise the tax to 118k this is not a tough problem. All our fiscal problems are due to the tax cut and the gawd awful deficit.

Dodd - it took 42 presidents to get the debt this president has aquired. Those bad peopel wanted to privatize ss.

Richardson: we don't need to deal with the retirement age. 1. Take privatization off the table. Stop dipping into the trust fund. 3. Grow the economy. (yeah all those tax hikes will help that)And fix education.

Edwards: If you work on wall street you are not paying enough ss tax. He would raise the tax up to 200k because he considers 200k the middle class.

Clinton wants to go back to what was working in her husband's administration. (What exactly was that?)

If you take all the remedies off the table aren't you doing what you accuse the president of?

Dodd: It's a wonderful system, we need a universal 401k - we need a safety net regardless of economic circumstances and privatization is bad.

Biden: We fixed it in '79 because we raised the retirement age so let's not kid each other. Oooh and he says back then Bush estimate was right - but he probably doesn't realize it.

Would you do away with the early retirement at 62? No. (That's everyone)

Richardson wants a constitutional amendment to balance the budget. We need to restore fiscal discipline.


Oh dear moving to 401k's are risky. So what should we do?

Biden: The federal govt needs to get involved. every company must be forced to let the employees invest, and the CEO's are bad so I would change the bankruptcy code to hurt CEO's if a company wipes out a retirement plan.

Hillary: The decline of defined benefit plans is bad, and Halliburton is an example because they gave Dick Cheney a bonus. We need to force people to be fair and honest. (interesting coming from her) She will focus on this issue as president.

Edwards: we want workers to have benefits at retirement so we have to strengthen unions. We need to make it easier for workers to organize, and CEO's pensions have to be treated like the lowest workers.

Richardson. We need portability of pensions. Workers are not protected under bankrupcy laws. We need dedicated pension reform and universal pensions.

SUb prime crisis - Who is to blame?

Dodd - as chairman of the banking committee - what is washington going to do.

We have lots of forclosures and greed is responsible, they lured people into deals and the people were too stupid to know better. In the short term we need work-outs for those people. He will not tolerate anyone losing their home because a banker took advantage. The federal reserve has the right to go after bad brokers so now we are going to do that. He will make sure as the democrat in charge. we need leadership in the country. We have to make sure Home depot is okay.

Edwards: I have proposed a national preditory lending law - a cap of 36% on the predatory lenders and we need a national home rescue fund because these people have been taken advantage about.

Biden - do you want a bigger cut in interest rates? We are headed toward recession. It's the hedge funds fault. We didn't see this coming - there was no way to know.

Who's fault is that?

It's a failure to regulate.

By COngress?

By everyone.


Sorry if I have chased everyone away. I can't seem to help myself.

Richardson. I already solved this problem. we have to keep the liquidity in the markets and we need transparency. I am blaming the president, because it's not regulated. (huh?)

How is Bernanke doing?

Reasonalbly well (Edwards) it's not the president's job.

Hillary" it is too soon to tell but there is a looming crisis. we need much more vigorous action by the president and we doubt it will happen under Bush.

Dodd says Bernacke is doing fairly well.

Biden: It's in the interst of the economy to make sure these people don't lose their homes.

Global warming: Do we need a carbon tax? No I support a cap in trade system. And if someone else wants to do it, it's fine with her. Insurance companys are cancelling politcies due to global warming. Take away tax subsidies for oil companies.

Dodd: Corporate carbon tax. You can't be serious about global warming unless you tax more.

Edwards: What about the alternative minimum tax which affects 50 m people. "I would modify it". The accountants are bad and it hits many middle class families. It's part of a broader policy he has.

Clinton - would you eliminate the AMT? I would eliminate the impact on people it was not supposed to affect. A firefighter and teacher are getting effected. We would keep some diffferential. democrats will do this in 2009 - so she has given up on this congress - interesting.

Obama proposed a middle class tax cut - is that appropriate. Richardson. I did it and I paid for them. He'd keep middle class tax cuts. I would create new tax cuts for incentives - huh? Tax cuts to union shops. A carbon tax is weaker than cap and trade. Carbon tax will be passed on. (Dodd disagrees) It has to be by mandate.

Edwards - we need tax cuts for the middle class - childcare tax credit, we have a negative savings rate, and make the rich pay.

To Biden: Dodd has proposed a bill for paid family leave for caring for the elderly. Unpaid lead is burdensome. Would this not be more burdensome? "One man's burden is another man's relief".

Ten years ago we proposed a tax cut and lost. The problem is China and INdia who are not capping and trading anything so we need to join with them to stop them because the sea will rise 3 to 5 feet. Huh?


Richardson: we should have paid leave, a caregiver credit and an equal rights amendment. (huh)

Hillary: Bill's right and we have to change the Supreme court decision that denies women equal pay for equal work. Big applause - not one person clapping has a clue what she is talking about.

Re; Post war iraq: (not a word about war, just post war?)

Biden, my plan about division is endorsed by the "sage of the NY Times" and Madelaine albright and Charles Kraughheimer whose name he cannot pronounce (and I can't spell)

That's it on the war I guess. Does anyone disagree with Joe:

Dodd - we should terminate the funding for the military.

Richardson: I want to bring all our troops out. Bring Iran and Syria in. No other comments by anyone.

All of oyou are for withdrawing forces from Iraq, but most experts say we need some residual forces. On Jan 20, 2010, what will be the size of our forces:

Biden take them out if no political settlement and then put them close by.

Edwards - we don't know what the circumstances are. Take 50k out immediately and then withdraw them all over time except to protect our embassy and relief workers because iran wants stability and we should join with them.

Richardson - zero troops - the last 3 months have been the bloodiest (huh?)Put troops in Kuwait and Afghansitan.

Clinton: We can't answer that question because we don't know what we will inherit. She will have her advisors figure out what Bush is not telling us, and she will have a prudent plan and it's irresponsible to say otherwise.

Dodd: Democrats were elected to end war and we should do it tomorrow.

That's it.


Thanks Jane! You did good.

The candidates - I am sorry - blah, blah, liberal bullsh*t blah.


because iran wants stability and we should join with them.

He really said that??????? I don't know why I am continually amazed at the stupidity coming from the democrats. But one thing for sure, I can't wait to get me some of that free stuff they keep promising...


So, I finally get around to reading Best of the Web today and I notice two striking items.

1. Hit and Run is not credited under either of his usual nom de plume's for his Obama item.

2. Valerie Plame was finally sued by someone.

Of course, Scooter Libby is a co-defendant, but true conspiracy buffs can easily see how they colluded.

So much we miss when we take time to enjoy the great outdoors during the last gasp of summer.

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