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October 03, 2007

Comments

kim

Pere Ubu Alert.
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kim

We're about to be treated to the absurdities of arguing the polarities of 'Patriotism'. Actually, I'm glad the issue is front and center; I'm sorry it's already demagogued.
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kim

What's nice is the irony that this is a discussion the luxury of which is afforded by the fact that the war is nearly over. The corollary of 'Who lost China', it's 'Who won Iraq'.

So, I guess we can rejoice that we are all patriots, after all. It's a big tent.
==============================

Sue

Republicans used to be considered superior at drumming up a quick controversy over some actual or perceived Democratic outrage. But Democrats and sympathetic advocacy groups are catching up fast.

Where the hell was I when the Republicans were superior at drumming up controversies?

Jane

It's hard to get a handle on it but I think the Rush controversy doesn't really resonate with the middle of the road people. I do however think the Move-on ad did.

Of course that could be wishful thinking.

bio mom

What should outrage all Americans on either side is the fact that the United States Congress in both houses is issuing denunciations against a private citizen. Not a politician, not a 527 political group (Move on), not a member of the administration or the military. AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, A PRIVATE CITIZEN. What comes next? Gold stars that people must wear to point them out as people with opinions that are not to be listened to? What a total disgrace our legislators have become. And so dangerous to democracy.

bio mom

What should outrage all Americans on either side is the fact that the United States Congress in both houses is issuing denunciations against a private citizen. Not a politician, not a 527 political group (Move on), not a member of the administration or the military. AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, A PRIVATE CITIZEN. What comes next? Gold stars that people must wear to point them out as people with opinions that are not to be listened to? What a total disgrace our legislators have become. And so dangerous to democracy.

kim

It won't Jane for two reasons. The middle know where Limbaugh stands. This is a volunteer military. It is inauthentic to be anti-war in this military, no matter how legitimate it is, in fact. It is a measure of the desperation of this anti-war crew to think this point will resonate with anyone but themselves. Yet, you see the media tote that bale.
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kim

That's it, MSM's minds are enslaved.
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kim

Media Matters cracks the whip. Who owns the overseer?
==============

kim

And, bm, I do think that point about the effort to make Congress censor a citizen for speech will resonate. I surely suspect Limbaugh will find all the resonating frequencies, Kenneth.
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Jane

The problem is since the MSM carries the dems' water, the non-paying attention part of the country is beginning to think we are headed toward McCarthyism. I actually agree with them, but we disagree on which side is imposing that standard.

kim

Jane, it is a deception so fundamental it must fall, but in the meantime, it is worsening. I don't know what to do.
=============================

ann

National Review's Byron York and Andy McCarthy are must reads today.... Delicious!

Rick Ballard

Tom Maguire,

Thanks for an excellent skewering of the Times, for the 387th time.

Kim,

"The middle know where Limbaugh stands."

IMO, it's important not to overestimate the intelligence of the bread and circuses, free lunch muddle in the road. I keep thinking about the fact that by November '08 there will be an entire group of 64 million that have passed completely through the national indoctrination process since the Clinton's first rented rooms in the White House.

Working from an assumption that a group that has had the importance of "feeling deeply" inculcated, rather than any development of critical thought will possess the acumen to distinguish propaganda from fact is perilous ground.

The electorate is ever changing and the educrats have made damn sure that it's not for the better wrt basic logical skills.

Gmax

I thought it was out of bounds to question someone patriotism? I am certain I had this very same discussion with the likes TT or AM not so long ago. Did it suddenly become fashionable?

Rush BTW is loving this. He picks up listeners and gets to tie Hillary to Media Matters and smears, so its a big twofer.

ann

Perceptive and affectionate observers of Wesley Clark, who missed his interview this morning with Meridith Vierra need to go over to Newsbusters.org. What a Hoot!

Semanticleo

From the October 2 broadcast of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show:

LIMBAUGH: "VoteVets.org has -- they describe themselves as an organization comprised of veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns who oppose current policy in Iraq. They've put together a TV ad that takes aim at me. This ad's going to run on Fox News, on CNN, it's going to run on WMAL radio in Washington, $60,000 ad buy that's going to run, I think, on our local West Palm Beach station down here. And there's a man identified as Brian McCoff -- McGough -- it's M-C-G-O-U-G-H, I'm not sure how he pronounces it, McGo, McGuff -- I haven't watched the ad.

He discusses his service in Iraq, the wounds he suffered there, and he says to me in this ad, "Until you have the guts to call me a 'phony soldier' to my face, stop telling lies about my service." You know, this is such a blatant use of a valiant combat veteran, lying to him about what I said, then strapping those lies to his belt, sending him out via the media in a TV ad to walk into as many people as he can walk into."

You can't make this shit up.

The Vet, btw, has shrapnel in his head suffered at the hands of a suicide bomber.

kim

Cleo, you are deluded enough to miss the point of that irony.
==================

Gmax

Who told lies about his service? Unless he recently changed his name from "Jessie Macbeth".

Have you seen the list of Board of Advisors of VoteVets.org? Wiki has it if you search. See if any of the names shock you.

How did this organization raise $60K within days for a media buy? HMMMMM.

MayBee

Seman- I know. To think that vet with the tragic shrapnel wound doesn't understand that Limbaugh did NOT call him a phony soldier is really sad. Or perhaps he understands, and is being manipulative for his cause.

Rick Ballard

Kim,

See. There are heretofore unplumbed depths of stoopid yet to explore.

Don't worry, Tic's fully capable of reaching bottom and reporting back.

Patrick R. Sullivan

Actually leo, you did just make it up, Limbaugh was talking about these guys:

U.S. Attorney Jeffrey C. Sullivan today announced some of the results of “Operation Stolen Valor,” a year long effort to investigate and prosecute those who lie about their military service for financial gain or other reasons. Sullivan and Doug Carver, Special Agent in Charge of the Veteran’s Affairs Office of Inspector General detailed eight prosecutions in the Veteran’s Affairs Northwest Region in 2007.

“As a Vietnam Veteran, and the father of a decorated Army officer currently serving, I feel very keenly the damage done by Jesse Macbeth and these other fakes,” said Jeff Sullivan, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Washington. “Macbeth’s lies fueled hostility to our servicemen in Iraq and here at home. Those who falsely claim medals for heroism, cheapen the recognition of our true war heroes.”

“The ‘phony war hero phenomenon’ plagues the American landscape and tarnishes the service of thousands of veterans who have served honorably. It strangles VA resources from providing critical care and benefits to deserving veterans returning from war,” said Douglas J. Carver, Special Agent in Charge of the VA Office of Inspector General, Western Field Office. “It all boils downs to this: these phonies submit claims to the VA for compensation and medical benefits they are not entitled to, and it takes away valuable resources from those who are entitled.”

In a dozen cases under investigation in the northwest, the fraud totals more than $1.4 million. Eight of the cases have been publicly filed and are in various stages of being adjudicated:

*Jesse Macbeth, 23, Tacoma, Washington, sentenced today in connection with his fraudulent claims of military service. Macbeth sought medical benefits claiming to suffer from PTSD related to service in Iraq and Afghanistan, in fact, Macbeth was discharged from the Army about a month after he joined. Macbeth never traveled outside the U.S. with the Army. Macbeth duped reporters, claiming to be a decorated Army Ranger who had witnessed war crimes.

*Reggie Buddle, 60, Puyallup, Washington, sentenced July 30, 2007, for Unlawful Wearing of United States Military Medals and Decorations. Buddle posed as a decorated Marine Corps Chaplin presiding over weddings, funerals and baptisms. Buddle was sentenced to 500 hours of community service and two years of probation.

*Larry Lewis Porter, 52, Seattle, Washington, sentenced April 19, 2007, for Mail Fraud in connection with a scheme to fraudulently obtain disability benefits from Veterans Affairs. Porter was sentenced to 37 months in prison. Porter claimed he suffered PTSD from experiences in the Navy, however investigation revealed the events were fabricated. Loss Amount: $134,000

*Roy J. Scott, 71, of Port Angeles, Washington pleaded guilty August 31, 2007, to Use of an Altered Military Discharge Certificate to obtain VA Compensation and Medical Benefits, and Unlawful Wearing of United States Military Medals and Decorations. Scott claimed he had served in the Marine Corps in Korea, that he was wounded in combat in Korea, and that he had been awarded the Korea Defense Medal, Korea Star Medal, and a Purple Heart (due to alleged gun shot wounds sustained during combat in Korea). Scott claimed to be honorably discharged, when in fact, he never earned those medals, never served in Korea or any foreign country and was Court-Martialed out of the Marine Corps. Loss Amount: $21,960.

*Merrick K. Hersey, 64, of Vancouver, Washington, Hersey was indicted August 1, 2007, for Use and Possession of Forged or Altered Military Discharge Certificate and False Statements. Hersey is a fugitive and is being sought by law enforcement. Hersey applied for benefits claiming he served in 1967-68, was awarded two Purple Hearts (for wounds sustained in active combat) and the Bronze Star (awarded for heroism). Hersey claimed he suffered from PTSD and sought benefits. In fact, Hersey never served in the Marine Corps at all. Loss Amount: $2,688.

*Michael D. Heit, 58, of Harrington, Washington, pleaded guilty yesterday (September 20, 2007) in U.S. District Court in Spokane, Washington to Use and Possession of a Forged or Altered Military Discharge Certificate and False Claims of Military Medals. Heit claimed he was a Vietnam vet who was held as a prisoner of war. He claimed to have been awarded three Purple Heart medals and the Silver Star. None of that is true. Loss Amount: $3,500

*Elvin J. Swisher, 70, of Idaho, is charged with Wearing Unauthorized Military Medals, False Statements, and Theft of Government Funds. Swisher falsely claimed he was wounded in Korea and that he had been awarded the Silver Star, Purple Heart and other medals for valor. Loss Amount: $95,000.

*Carlos Riosvalle, 83, of Portland, Oregon, was sentenced April 9, 2007, in Multnomah County for multiple counts of Theft by Deception. Riosvalle collected benefits claiming to have been “shot down while a pilot in World War II.” In fact Riosvalle never served in the armed forces. Loss Amount: $22,818.

kim

Take my point, Cleo; we're all patriots, here, even the suddenly increasingly loyal opposition.
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Sue

You can't make this shit up.

Odd that we are thinking the same thing Leo.

Ed

Selective memory. Just like the selective tape-editing Rush did to try and weasel out from this. Where did that 1 minute and 35 seconds of transcript go that you don't mention above?

The Gun Toting Liberal shows that this is just another in a series of Limbaugh attacks on any soldier that disagrees with the GOP:

"Remember when Specialist Thomas Wilson questioned former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld on the lack of body armor in Kuwait? A PERFECT example of the FACT “El Rushbo” only supports the half of the troops in uniform who are allowed to fully voice their free speech via the UCMJ due to the fact their views are shared by the talk radio show host and their Commander-In-Chief. For those who might have forgotten, not only did Specialist Wilson get a rousing ovation by the majority of his fellow troops that day in Kuwait, “El Rushbo”, “The Truth Detector” LYING LOW-LIFE, called for Specialist Wilson to be busted for “borderline-insubordination” at the time…"

From The New York Times, May 22nd, 2005:

“… The right’s rage at Newsweek is all too reminiscent of the contempt it heaped on Specialist Thomas Wilson, the soldier who dared to ask Mr. Rumsfeld at a town hall meeting in Kuwait in December about the shortage of armored vehicles. Mr. Wilson was guilty of ”near-insubordination,” said Rush Limbaugh… “

MayBee

Ed- I'm unfamiliar with attacks on Wilson, and don't agree with any that might have happened. I do remember that a reporter (McClatchy?) had put him up to the question.

However, surely you aren't trying to say that any soldier that chooses to get involved politically can't be disagreed with or their opinions criticized?

It's the way it's done, IMO, that makes it acceptable or not.

Jane

Funny no one is talking about Beauchamp in this whole incident. It would seem like the perfect segue.

MayBee

Jane- Rush did bring him up.

Mike Sorenen

This Times piece is promoting the ‘moral equivalency’ narrative. I agree with Carl Hulse that calling Petraeus a traitor and calling anti-war soldiers “phony soldiers,” are equivalent insults. The fake accusation that Rush voiced that insult in no way affects the accuracy of the comparison of those two insults. So viola, we have another “fake but accurate” story.

RichatUF

I see that ed has gotten the updated talking points from Media Matters and they want to dredge up a story from 2005, which was shown then that the question was manipulated by a journalist.

Anyway, happy hunting ed, I'm sure one day Media Matters or MoveOn will get one of the whales of evil talk raido or evil fox.

Gmax

OK for the libtards. Here is my quick Dogpile search of the internet for Spec. Thomas Wilson and Limbaugh. The source is Columnist Clarence Page, no conservative apologist he, and here is his reporting of the 2004 commentary by Rush:

"Yet some partisan critics, apparently unable to defend Rumsfeld, attacked Pitts. "He created news in order to cover it," said conservative political commentator Rush Limbaugh. "... We found out the whole thing ... is a setup." Setup to do what? Tell the truth?"

Pitts in this case is the embedded reporter who admitted the questions asked were his. He did not question Wilson or call him anything like a "phony soldier".

Nice try though. Shame that the internet has made it harder for libtards to lie like Persian rugs ( or Persian Presidents, which is it?).

Sue

Ed,

I'm sure I'm missing the segue from phony soldier to insubordination but what exactly is wrong with Rush saying it was near insubordination? Anyway, this entire controversy with Rush has been set up to hide the fact that democrats have funded the war, again.

Appalled Moderate

Gmax:

Was not going to comment on this topic, but you brought my initials up...

Congress should not be in the business in condemning exercises of free speech in the media. This goes for both the MoveOn resolution and the Limbaugh resolution. Given the government regulation of radio, and recent moves to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine, I think the resolution on Limbaugh is a larger abuse. The goal of Reid and company is to get Clear Channel to do to Limbaugh what was done to Imus. That's a disgrace.

I have no thoughts on Limbaugh's patriotism, and think the "did not serve in Vietnam" argument cheap. Those who make it would not want to live in a USA where only veterans of foreign wars get to make policy.

Sorry to bother you all. You may resume your regularly scheduled commenting.

Gmax

And said they want to increase taxes through a war "surcharge". The Daily Double for Progressives. Defund the troops and get a new tax passed.

MayBee

Sue- they had to fund the war. Their patriotism was under attack by Rush Limbaugh. Don't you see?

Rich

Tom,
FYI, Rush's "morning update" is a one minute piece broadcast on various stations at various times in the morning.

Gmax

Perhaps it was TT but I had the discussion.

to your comments, calling MoveOn anything other than a branch of the DNC is pretty disingenuous. Which Democrat politician said they weren't going to attack Petraeus personally, they would leave that to their surrogates? It was definitely quoted widely.

In my book it aint the same and no about of mumbling through some equivalence argument is going to make it so.

MayBee

Did the so-called Move On resolution actually mention MoveOn? The draft I saw only included support of Petraeus.

Bill in AZ

Ed is also using the tired talking points of the libtards regarding the missing 1 minute 35 minutes of the transcript. err... it was from the previous days show - you can listen to it yourself if you're not lazy, stupid, or intentionally continuing the lie of Harry Reid and Media Matters. By the way, there is nothing new or exciting for you there - too bad.

RichatUF

Sue-

Anyway, this entire controversy with Rush has been set up to hide the fact that democrats have funded the war, again.

Drats, foiled again

I'm sure most of the crap [like the Kennedy amendment] will get stripped out in conference and with all the huffing-and-puffing the Democrats will pass a defense budget bill that will keep US soliders in Iraq well past the end of Bush's term in office.

boris

even though Limbaugh went on to cite a specific phony soldier, Jesse MacBeth, two minutes later?

As Rich points out the cite was Rush replaying his morning update, brodcasted the previous day. The spin about plural when it clearly was a legitimate example Rush referenced before and after the caller's comment is despicable.

Patrick R. Sullivan
Remember when Specialist Thomas Wilson questioned former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld on the lack of body armor in Kuwait?

That would be a neat trick, since he didn't. He mouthed a question--planted by a reporter from, iirc, Newsweek--about why the troops were having to add armor to their Humvees by their lil ol' selves, rather than have them shipped back to the factories to have it done.

It was a stupid question, the answer to which is 'logistics'.

Gmax

The reporter, Pitts, was with the local Chattanooga paper. He was embedded with the Guard unit, primarly from Middle Tennessee. He admitted he planted two questions with soldiers, including Thomas Wilson.

Ed

Except Patrick, we're not talking about the question about body armor, we're talking about how Rush has a history of attacking any soldier who disagrees with his view.

Enlightened

Wow - Rush sure took it to the GOP and conservatives as well. As usual, the spineless leaders of the GOP rolled over. They should have jumped to Rush's defense on the premise alone that the rising tide of fascism, and the efforts to crush free speech, that Hillary Clinton and her ilk represent must be stopped.

Rush's history of personal gratitude and honor, and unwavering financial support towards the military precedes him, and for the leftard morons to think for a moment that he is disinegenous about his military support is absolutely laughable. This is about the funniest thing I have ever witnessed. The leftard morons are flagellating themselves over a lie - and are foaming at the mouth in a near orgasim over a lie. It defines their side splendidly.

It has literally - as Rush has also found - energized me back solidly into the right. The fascist manifesto has got to be stopped. By all means possible.

boris

attacking any soldier who disagrees ...

The soldier did not diagree with Rush Limbaugh, he voiced an MSM challange to Rumsfeld.

Rush did not "attack" the soldier, he expressed an opinion regarding the appropriateness of the soldier's PUBLIC comment.

Enlightened

"we're talking about how Rush has a history of attacking any soldier who disagrees with his view."

Hahhahahhhahhhh - Leftwing idiots that have a history of attacking all soldiers, in all war, mainly with fake but accurate facts are now trying to prove Rush Limbaugh is really just one of them.

Priceless.

MayBee

Well then, Ed-- why don't you give some examples of Rush's history of attacking any soldiers that don't agree with his view? Show me his quotes attacking Wilson.

Rick Ballard

"we're talking about how Rush has a history of attacking any soldier who disagrees with his view."

Ed,

Lay a foundation for your baseless assertion or be consigned to "deeply stoopid troll" status - you'll have to sit next to Tic at the back of the short bus.

boris

On today's show Rush mentioned that he reread the morning update commentary from a printout after the caller's comment rather than replay it. I have heard him replay such updates on occasion and made the wrong assumption.

glasater

Hugh on Rush has a great blog piece on this issue.

Sue

If you get his show via the podcast, you will see him printing the phony soldier story from ABC, during this lull that Ed seems to think is nefarious.

Neo

Phony Senators and Congressones unaware of this "phony soldier".

clarice

I wonder what TM will do for material when Pinch loses control of the NYT which should be sooner rather than later. Honestly, the paper provides him with so much fodder.

ann

Must-read: Tom Maguire deconstructs the moral equivalence and trademark sloppy journalism behind the NYTimes story.

-Michelle Malkin

Enlightened

If you support Rush, or just if you support the fact that our service persons are entitled to pick what they hear on AFR, MacRanger has a e-mail form you can send AFR to keep Rush on the airwaves.

Wesley Clarke - What a maroon. What a phony, phony man.

ann

IF this doesn't bring back Other Tom, I think we should file a missing person alert in Italy:

Jimmy Carter Bravely Shouts in Darfur: "I'm Going to Tell!" Gatewaypundit.blogspot.com

Sara

OT - Patrick Ruffini takes on Kos's traffic numbers and says they are inflated by as much as 60%.

Link

On a personal note, I have noticed screwiness in Site Meter's numbers myself. I have Site Meter, an internal counter, and another external counter similar to site meter that is hidden running on my site. My internal counter and the hidden external counter tend to agree very closely, while the Site Meter figures are always at odds with the other two, although in my case, I see a deflation rather than an inflation. Ruffini says the higher the traffic the worse the miscount. I will say this, if Kos has visitors who stay less than 2 seconds, that is inflation. We may have very low counts, but those who come tend to stay anywhere from 2 to 5 minutes.

Gmax

Wes Clarke and Jimmy Carter are two cut from the same cloth. Once upon a time there was another fired general who ran for President. His name was George McClellan. Described as cautious, hesitant and even insubordinate he ultimately was relieved of command by Lincoln. McClellan then ran for President as a Democrat. I see amazing parallels. I think Rick makes reference to Copperheads frequently, and it fits in here too.

Gmax

Wes Clarke and Jimmy Carter are two cut from the same cloth. Once upon a time there was another fired general who ran for President. His name was George McClellan. Described as cautious, hesitant and even insubordinate he ultimately was relieved of command by Lincoln. McClellan then ran for President as a Democrat. I see amazing parallels. I think Rick makes reference to Copperheads frequently, and it fits in here too.

Forbes

By the way, back to the top--where TM suggests that the AP gets the story right, in two short sentences:

CLAREMONT, N.H. -- Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards criticized Rush Limbaugh on Friday for referring to some members of the military as "phony soldiers."

For his part, Limbaugh said he was referring only to one soldier recently convicted of lying about his service.

Apparently TM's normally sharp eye didn't even pick up on the AP's nonsense of referring to Jesse McBeth as "one soldier"--the Jesse McBeth that washed out of boot camp. I'd say the best that Jesse McBeth qualified for would be the description as a recruit rather than as a soldier.

Perhaps in boot camp he was called a soldier, but having never made it out, he did not qualify for, nor does he deserve the honor of that appellation.

centralcal

Enlightened: I went over to Mac's place as suggested and I saw another post about how to file an IRS complaint against Media Matters. He says that the IRS has already received some complaints and is investigating. Apparently, their status is set for renewal this December.

cathyf

Hey, we need a topic to descuss this: Neoconservatism's Future: It's still the only game in town from today's opinionjournal. Some things are just eery:

Contrary to Carter and the antiwar Left, neoconservatives believed that Communism was very much to be feared, to be detested, and to be opposed. They saw the Soviet Union as, in the words of Ronald Reagan, an "evil empire," unspeakably cruel to its own subjects and relentlessly predatory toward those not yet in its grasp. They took the point of George Orwell's "1984"--a book that (as the Irish scholars James McNamara and Dennis J. O'Keeffe have written) resurrected the idea of evil "as a political category." And they absorbed the cautionary warning of the Russian novelist and dissident Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn against yielding ground to the Communists in the vain hope "that perhaps at some point the wolf will have eaten enough."

Many in our history, both statesmen and scholars, had drawn a distinction between Americans' sentiments and America's self-interest. Where Communism was concerned, the neoconservatives saw the two as intertwined. Communism needed to be fought both because it was morally appalling and because it was a threat to our country.

For their passion against Communism, neoconservatives were accused of being "zealots" and "Manicheans." To this, one neoconservative rejoined: "we face a Manichean reality." That is to say, the struggle between the Communist world and the West involved, on the one hand, some of the most malign, murderous regimes ever created and, on the other hand, some of the most humane. The moral consequences were enormous.

Talk about history repeating itself!

POP

Its awful disgusting of Democrats to attempt to smear Rush Limbaughs being anti-soldier given Rush’s extensive record of support for the troops. What’s even worse, is the Democrats long history of disparaging our military and our soldiers to now attempt smear good people to make themselves look better.

If you’ve forgotten, here is a bit of the history of the Democrats and the military:

John Kerry smeared his fellow combat veterans as criminals and committers of genocide, etc.

He claimed thousands of our troops had committed atrocities in Vietnam.

In this conflict he went on to claim our troops terrorize women and children;

that they are stupid and uneducated and therefore get stuck in Iraq.

(Can you find similar quotes from Limbaugh)

Bill Clinton wrote a letter where he admitted he LOATHED the military.

(Can you find a similar letter from Rush)

The liberals and Democrats openly disparaged the Navy’s MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner

For the troops to celebrate accomplishing their mission of overthrowing Saddams government.

(Can you find a similar comments from Rush)

Senator Reid has repeatedly claimed are troops can’t win and the war is lost.

(Can you find a similar comments from Rush)

Senator Kennedy compared our troops to Saddams henchmen saying they just re-opened the

torture center that was Iraq under new management.

(Can you find a similar comments from Rush)

Senator Durbin said that our troops acted like Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot.

(Can you find a similar comments from Rush)

Congressmen Murtha claimed US troops were murdering civilians in cold blood.

And the list goes on:

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) Criticized Resolution Supporting Troops: Rep. Pelosi Called Resolution To Support Troops "Bitter Pill." "As to the resolution in support of the troops, Ms. Pelosi regards it as 'a bitter pill.'

In 2003, Eleven House Democrats Voted Against Expressing Support And Thanks To U.S. Military Personnel Serving In Operation Iraqi Freedom

Rep. Pelosi And House Democrats Have Repeatedly Voted To Prohibit Or Prevent ROTC And Military Recruiters On College Campuses

Then you have the leftist protestors

who carry banners saying: Will support the troops when they k-ll their officers.

ann

Thanks for yor link Glaster,

Hugh also has a great piece on General Peter Pace. Another honorable man the Left got rid of:

"A political party that can discard a man of Pace's caliber, character and credibility as easily as throwing out last week's leftovers for no other reason than their opposition to the war in Iraq is not a party that can be seriously considered to be placed in charge of this country in a time of war."

Patrick R. Sullivan

From the Newsday story Tom M. linked to:

Clinton's extended family of contributors, consultants and friends has played a pivotal role in helping Media Matters grow from a $3.5 million start-up in 2004 to its current $8.5 million budget.

Two years ago, she advised Brock on creating the group, encouraging the creation of a liberal equivalent of the Media Research Center, a conservative group that has aggravated Democrats for decades.

And while Clinton and Brock aren't exactly chums, she chats with him occasionally and thinks he provides a valuable service, according to people familiar with the relationship.

Kelly Craighead, one of the Clinton's closest friends, served as one of Brock's top advisers during Media Matters' formation in 2004. She was paid as part of a $202,781 contract with her husband, Erick Mullen's, consulting company, tax records obtained by Newsday show.


Sara

Bill Clinton wrote a letter where he admitted he LOATHED the military.

I think the actual word used was "despised." It was the reason I could never vote for Slick Willie, well that and his loathsome sneer he always has.

Sara

despise not despised.

Neo
Wes Clarke and Jimmy Carter are two cut from the same cloth.

Wes Clarke is diffently an odd guy. Back in 2004, we kept getting stories that other officers that served with/under him, loathed him, but the story always seemed to end there.

The whole story seems to revolve around Pristina airport, where some believe Wes Clarke recklessly risked WWIII with the Russians.

So, everytime this guy gets on TV, I think of "Dr. Strangelove".

Topsecretk9

Well, Stoyner is putting the resolution on the back burner!

I'm sure the Dems are in no hurry for floor speeches revealing their support of Jesse MacBeth.

PeterUK

"Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards criticized Rush Limbaugh on Friday for referring to some members of the military as "phony soldiers."

That's rich coming from the "Phony Pony".

Topsecretk9

Don Surber lays out the future:

Question in 2009: “Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Republican Party?”

PeterUK

"The problem is since the MSM carries the dems' water,"

In the same way as does a sewer.

Holly Garza

Sara, re Clinton's letter, do you have a link to that letter? I did a google search but couldn't find it. Can you give me a few more details?

PeterUK

"The Vet, btw, has shrapnel in his head suffered at the hands of a suicide bomber."

A tragedy for the young man.

How did you get yours,a mishap with a spoon and pusher?

Sara

I used to have the letter back in my old Compuserve days, which is to say in the mid 1990s, but I've been through so many computers since then, finding it would be impossible.

It was a letter he wrote to someone, I forget who, a draftboard person IIRC, and it was his attempt to get out of the draft. This is all sketchy memory. All I remember is the sentence giving his reasons for not wanting to fulfill his previous promise of joining up and one of the reasons was something like "I despise the military." It was around the time he hiked himself off to England and was conducting anti-war rallies in a foreign country, demonstrating against the U.S. while we had military in a combat zone in Vietnam. Try refining your search to Clinton and the Draft and see if that brings it up.

Enlightened

Here's what Clinton wrote in a December 3, 1969, letter to Holmes:

I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give

Sara

I'm having terrible connectivity problems today, but if I can stay connected more than 30-40 seconds at a time, I'll try to search too.

Rick Ballard

Someone's google skills need sharpening:

I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military...

Loathe isn't despise but Bubba's concern for his political viability is certainly despicable. It's very difficult to determine whether Bubba or The Beast is actually more loathsome but The Beast is the current consideration so a focus on her mistreatment of officer's so unfortunate as to have been designated aides is probably worthwhile.

clarice

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/hillary-files-eavesdropping-on-the-bimbos>Hillary eavesdropping

Sara

I'm having terrible connectivity problems today, but if I can stay connected more than 30-40 seconds at a time, I'll try to search too.

Sara

I was wrong. I claim a senior moment, sorry. I'll remember loath over despise now.

Jim M

This used to be called McCarthyism. Totally unhinged. I wonder if 30 years from now at the Oscars presentations some witless video star will be talking about the courage of those in this era; right or left.

An ol west texas saying about a corrupt politician--I like a man who knows he is bought and paid for. Harry Reid keep dancing to the strings that are pulling at you.

Holly Garza

Thanks ya'll for the info on the letter.

bio mom

A comment from Free Republic earlier today states that what is being done in Congress may be unconstitutional:

Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution bans Bills of Attainder, which in Constitutional context means a bill that has a negative effect on a single person or group.

Didn't check myself if this is true, just passing it on. And, of course, these things weren't actual bills. But the spirit of the constitution is certainly not being followed.

Rick Ballard

Sara,

Considering the close association with the Clinton's, the substitution of loathe for despise or loathsome for despicable is entirely understandable. Either would be acceptable as a descriptor for either. Sort of a "all parts of a single [w]hole" concept.

Patrick R. Sullivan

A bill of attainder declares a person to have committed a crime, and the punishment is inflicted without a trial, or any evidence being presented.

PeterUK

Mr Ballard,
In these parts "loathe and despise" are often conjoined since the former denotes hatred and the latter abominate.Good name for a political duo.

cathyf

I am curious about the 1st amendment and the censorship issues. Passing a resolution criticizing the NYT for the Petreaus ad is one thing, but the government licenses radio stations and so a threat against someone on the radio brings up 1st amendment issues that don't exist for newspapers.

Sara

I admit I had not thought about that letter in more than a decade. And the funny thing is, where I first heard about it was on the old "Roots" forum of Compuserve, which was a genealogy forum. Why it ever came up there is gone from my memory. All I know is that if I still have it anywhere it is on an old tape backup, which is unreachable since I no longer have the equipment to read tape backups. Probably more than half the people on the Internet were still in diapers when I made that backup. Ouch.

PeterUK

This probably all stems from the fact that al Qaeda in iraq are up against it.Al Demokrati are opening another front as a distraction,after all there aren't many surrendering days left until Christmas.

Sara

BTW, if anyone else is having connectivity problems, Time Warner Cable just informed me they are due to solar interference (solar flares) and the problem will go on until Oct. 12th, on and off.

Sue

Cue the scary music...

will go on until Oct. 12th

Wasn't that the date that Amamadhatter said we would have our answer? Coincidence? I don't think so.

::grin::

Sue

Just in case Rush is lurking, I have a brilliant idea. The ad that is being run with the disabled vet at the end he issues a request. Face to face with him and call him a phony. Issue an invitation for the vet to appear on your radio show. Do it publically, in case he refuses.

PeterUK

Is George Soros Open Society Institute funding VoteVets.Org?

Extraneus

PUK:

This probably all stems from the fact that al Qaeda in iraq are up against it.Al Demokrati are opening another front as a distraction,after all there aren't many surrendering days left until Christmas.

Exactly, and we should be prepared for this to intensify. The Bill Clinton gang was adept at pocketing items for a rainy day, which they could feed to their lapdogs in the press when things got hot. Since then, the campaign finance system has been changed, and many of these same capos and liutenants (Podesta, Ickes, Blumenthal, et al) -- or at least those who haven't moved over to the MSM directly -- have used these changes to their advantage, spawing 527 groups like Media Matters, Americans Coming Together and the rest. All of these groups now can conspire together, fueled with Soros and other big liberal money, ready to do Hillary's bidding without having to coordinate directly with the campaign. Imus was only the beginning. This very likely will get worse, and the bullying more brazen. More and more businesses will be cowed into submission, and this steamroller will get more powerful. Stalin would already be proud.

What can be done to fight this? I think there is real danger to an unchecked Hillary administration, and it's essential that a special prosecutor be launched before the election, just in case. Nearer-term, I was wondering what group was best prepared to take a poll of active-duty military regarding moveon vs. Limbaugh, their preferences relative to whether Rush's broadcasts should continue on Armed Forces Radio, what they think of Bush and his leadership, etc. Perhaps Rush should commission this himself, but somebody more neutral would be better. Anyone know of an appropriate recipient? Is Freedom's Watch the best choice? I'm feeling generous at the moment.

clarice

I was wrong. The MoveOn ad wasn't the dumbest move--this one is dumber.

saki

What should outrage all Americans on either side is the fact that the United States Congress in both houses is issuing denunciations against a private citizen. Not a politician, not a 527 political group (Move on), not a member of the administration or the military. AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, A PRIVATE CITIZEN. What comes next? Gold stars that people must wear to point them out as people with opinions that are not to be listened to? What a total disgrace our legislators have become. And so dangerous to democracy.

Posted by: bio mom | October 03, 2007 at 09:45 AM

Bio Mom, I could not agree with you more. What Rush said or did not say is inconsequential. Our government has no right to discuss this as part of the nation's business. Our Senators and Congresspersons have no right to condemn him on the floor of Congress. If they want to do so as private citizens themselves, that is their right also.
Move-on.org. is in a different position with their acceptance of government largesse via tax exemption. They have accepted government oversight of their affairs.

centralcal

Extraneus: "and this steamroller will get more powerful."

I feel as you do. And yet, our side just gets weaker and lamer! McCain and Romney joined with the Libs and tsk-tsked Rush, and became stars of HuffPo, etc.

Finally, today, a handful of Republicans have statements supportive of Rush posted at Red State. Where were they prior to this? Thompson's website has a statement supportive of Rush.

I am so underwhelmed.

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