After The Fall

The latest Hillarity about planted questions has me wondering what will happen to Hillary after she manages to lose the aura of inevitability.  Can either Barack Hussein Il Jong Obama or the Breck Girl win the hearts and minds of a Dem majority and seize the nomination?

Not to be a Gloomy Guss but here is my gloomy guess - in a brawling street fight Hillary will easily re-emerge as the toughest Dem out there and the press will be thrilled to unveil a whole new narrative about the Comeback Queen whose true depths of character and resolve have finally been revealed by the grueling primary process blah, blah, kill me now, and quickly.

Now, I have not fully given in to despair - the press would also be thrilled to tell us how Obama took the high road to victory, thereby teaching us Great Things about the wisdom of the American people and the press that guides them.  Edwards backers, however, feel free to despair - no one wants to hear a story about a triumphant middle-aged white opportunist.

Comments

[Other Tom]

I'm not in despair (at least not any more than I have been all along) because I long ago booked a Hillary victory. And (to the surprise even of me) her Tradesports nomination contract is holding at 71 cents, where it was before the debate, before the planted question, and etc.

[Clarice]

Where was Tradesports on Dean before the Iowa caucus?

[Rick Ballard]

It was at 69.5% for a Republican hold on the Senate in '06.

I think TM's assessment of the probability of her being nominated is correct but the early primary decision isn't a plus for a gargoyle - the longer you look the uglier it gets.

[TruthIsHere]

FACT: Bush is a self-admitted WAR CRIMINAL!
FACT: Bush is engaged in ILLEGAL SPYING on the AMERICAN PEOPLE!
FACT: Bush has rounded up THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of INNOCENT AMERICANS and IMPRISONED them in SECRET CIA PRISONS overseas!
FACT: Bush LIED! People DIED!!!
FACT: Bush RIGGED the 2004 ELECTION with the help of DIEBOLD, HILLARY CLINTON and AL GORE
FACT: The 2008 ELECTION is a SHAM!!! Our next PRESIDENT has ALREADY BEEN SELECTED by the MEGAMULTICORPORATIONS who RUN our SHAM GOVERNMENT!
FACT: If the TRUE WILL of the AMERICAN PEOPLE had been expressed in a TRULY FREE 2004 election, our PRESIDENT would be DAVID COBB!!!!

CONCLUSION: IMPEACH NOW!!! BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!!

[David Cobb]

I invented the Cobb salad.

[centralcal]

Moonbats. Netroots. Gotta love 'em. When you take away their use of ALL CAPS or their profanity, there is only drool and spittle remaining.

[windansea]

blah, blah, kill me now, and quickly.

my sentiments exactly

I invented the Cobb salad.

thread winner

[Jane]

OT,

You were in the paper today. Let me know if you want the link.

Cobb - it's a good salad.

Truthishere - we don't care. We have all been brainwashed by the great news coming out of Iraq. How do you bear up in light of that?

I'm not sure there is an alternative to Hillary - but then, when I remember the alternative to Howard Dean, I feel buoyed, knowing that democrats will always shoot themselves in the foot.

[Rick Ballard]

Second planted question story.

Are her visits to restrooms scripted?

[Not Rickety]

It is unknown how far the scripting of her life goes, but the stance question should be investigated.

Nevermind - I think I just made myself sick.

[anduril]

Were Larry Craig's?

[reliapundit]

i predict.... hillary loses iowa and lime dean her campaign collapses.

and we get a brokered convention which nominates gore and obama. or richardson.

[K T Cat]

FACT: I CANNOT FIGURE OUT WHERE THE CAPS LOCK KEY IS. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME? MY GIRLFRIEND JUST DUMPED ME BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT I WAS SHOUTING AT HER IN AN EMAIL. LAST WEEK MY BOSS TOLD ME I WAS ON THIN ICE AT WORK BECAUSE OF THIS. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, HELP!

:-)

[M. Simon]

I invented Simon Says, Simple Simon, and Simon. Plus Simon and Simon.

Do I get a prize?

[Bill in AZ]

strewth - you forgot the Walmart detention and re-education centers

[Jane]

What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

[Me Myself]

If Hillary is so tough, why does she need to script all her apperances? I read a story yesterday where she and Obama don't hold press conferences and don't speak to their beat reporters on a daily basis as it used to be. She has been in the public areana since 1991 and she still can't risk an unscripted public encounter.
That is not the sign of a tough or a smart woman.
She is what her and Bill always have been, phony cowards.

[Mucking Foonbat]

FACT: Bush stole my BIKE!
FACT: Bush does not even do his own LAUNDRY!
FACT: Bush did NOT invite me to THANKSGIVING DINNER at the WHITE HOUSE even though my TAXES helped pay for it!
FACT: Bush hides my KEYS every MORNING just to make me LATE!
FACT: Bush eats KITTENS! And PUPPIES! And GUINEA PIGS! And FLUFFY BUNNIES!
FACT: If the AMERICAN PEOPLE would just IMPEACH BUSH then CANDY will RAIN DOWN from the SKY! C'mon guys, FREE CANDY!!!!

CONCLUSION: AAAUUUGGGGGH! MY HAIR IS ON FIRE!!! GOTTA RUN!!!!!

[section9]

HUMA ABEDIN.

There. I said it.

Discuss.

[Wryter's Bloch]

The caps lock key is somewhere beneath the word "Caps Lock" on the keyboard.

Good luck.

[MikeS]

Do you mean Truthishere wasn't a parody????

[The Guy Who Yelled 'Free Bird! before Lynyrd Skynyrd Played Freebird]

Free Bird!

(not that I'm living in the past or anything.)

[Robbins Mitchell]

Call me crazy, but I am of the opinion that it isn't a coincidence that the prime anagram for 'Hillary Rodham Clinton' is 'Damn Chilly Iron Harlot'....that much about her IS inevitable

[Robbins Mitchell]

Call me crazy, but I am of the opinion that it isn't a coincidence that the prime anagram for 'Hillary Rodham Clinton' is 'Damn Chilly Iron Harlot'....that much about her IS inevitable

[Robbins Mitchell]

Call me crazy, but I am of the opinion that it isn't a coincidence that the prime anagram for 'Hillary Rodham Clinton' is 'Damn Chilly Iron Harlot'....that much about her IS inevitable

[Robbins Mitchell]

Call me crazy, but I am of the opinion that it isn't a coincidence that the prime anagram for 'Hillary Rodham Clinton' is 'Damn Chilly Iron Harlot'....that much about her IS inevitable

[Robbins Mitchell]

Call me crazy, but I am of the opinion that it isn't a coincidence that the prime anagram for 'Hillary Rodham Clinton' is 'Damn Chilly Iron Harlot'....that much about her IS inevitable

[Haickmes]

Ly nyrd, Sky nyrd. Free bird. NPR doesn't own the satellite, but acts like they do. Ly Sky can only mean eye sky time eye, ly.

Immpeach now, I can't until she's in office. Hilly contacts are future trades. HUMA(N) ABEDI( ). Skittles rain from the sky nyrd, not corn cobbs with butter and salt. Hokey pokey man.

Assessments of probability are futures trades, those are made in the past. Anyho, Plame's been spying since she was 14, like for the CIA. So, was she in that movie and get to use all the time and everything.

Blah, blah, blah. Russians really say this alot and explain that Bob, the man, blah blah blahed alot and he's, like, holy now. Nathan Hale was a spy and had only one life to give and did. All hale the ham nation.

[Hes]

I meant contracts, like in futures, not contracts like in lesbians working for the UN Human Rights and Paul o 'Serg' I Pinhero (yes, it's called pinning the Pay Ronnies).

Let's do the hokey pokey, man.

All hale hilly.

[Clarice]

Raw Meat!

The NYT does an election analysis based on the MRI's of a focus group.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/opinion/11freedman.html?pagewanted=print>MRAIN

And we have a year more of this to go............

[barometer08]

Why would anyone vote for the only booty Bill doesn't like?

She's just Rudy in a dress. Oh wait, Rudy has his own. Well, they both want the war, are both pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.

Can we get a real candidate, please?

[needlines]

Semel

World leader expecially in the field of needle braiding machines.

He got fired at yahoo, but I guess it was like 'Vanity Fair.'

[Ann]

Sorry for the long post but this is very interesting:

A post at politico.com says:

reading the other blog posts and comments on this topic, RKA made a great comment. there was another extremely suspicious incident involving clinton's camp and possible audience plants. a few days after hillary's disasterous debate performance in philly-- mainly over the way she parsed on the drivers license for illegal immigrants question-- i read a story where she was at an event in iowa talking about the issue and two or three people in the audience stood up to say they had been hit by illegal immigrant drivers. it seemed odd at the time, but now it's downright suspicious. here's a link to the story on cnn's ticker: ------------------------ http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/04/drivers-hit-by-illegal-immigrants-speak-to-clinton/ DES MOINES, Iowa (CNN) ? At least two people spoke up in front of Hillary Clinton on Saturday in support of driver's licenses for illegal immigrants, an issue Clinton said relates to a larger problem "we have to solve." The senator from New York had just finished speaking to a group of Polk County, Iowa, field staff in Des Moines and was getting ready to leave the room when Clinton supporter Lee Jolliffe started yelling over the crowd noise. "There are two of us here," Jolliffe said, "who have been hit by those unlicensed drivers. It's not a privilege, it?s a protection." Jolliffe was pointing out that drivers who can have licenses are more likely to have insurance. "Thank you, thank you, thank you," Clinton responded. "I appreciate you raising that because, you know, the federal government has failed. The federal government has failed, and states are trying to figure out what to do." She continued, "But two people right in this room have been hit, have been hit by people who are here and undocumented." That prompted one man to shout, "More than two!" "More than two," Clinton replied. "So, you know, at some point we have to solve this problem because we're seeing all sorts of consequences. So thank you for being a witness to that. Thank you." Jolliffe later told CNN she wanted to give Clinton an opportunity to defend herself on the issue, one that created some heat at Tuesday night's debate. -------------------------- anyone care to follow up with clinton supporter lee jolliffe to see if she was "encouraged" (read: coached) beforehand by someone from clinton's staff?

Posted By: theprofessional | November 10, 2007 at 06:56 PM

Another plant?

[Matt]

There was a time I loathed the comments that people post, but then I realized I should welcome them. Why? Just think, they are not on our highways driving (and killing) people, being rude in stores, smoking while filling their cars with gas, yelling during their children's sporting events and the list goes on. We can feel safer when these nut cases are in their homes away from educated people.....

[Jack is Back!]

Matt:

When email first became "office" popular, we called these folks "keyboard cowards". Stil applies in a lot of cases. By the way, I love Cobb Salad!

[Rick Ballard]

Vote Jmax

Jessica leads by a head in the stretch but it's a mile and a sixteenth race with another filly right beside her. The crowd is coming to their feet...

A few more clicks will carry her first over the line.

[Sue]

My gawd. I don't see any trackbacks. How did they find us? I am starting to think we should have some kind of sanity test before allowing people to vote.

[donald]

Please, somone tell me how the Federal Government has failed to address the problem of illegall drivers licenses. I realize the horror of not closing down our borders. But licenses?

[TruthIsHere]

FACT: Large MEGAMULTICORPORATIONS hide SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES in the backgrounds of ALL WEB PAGES on the ITNERNET!
FACT: These IMAGES trick YOUR MIND into a kind of SLEEP to keep YOU from SEEING THE TRUTH!
FACT: By selectively EMPHASIZING certain WORDS in a MESSAGE, this CONDITIONING can BE OVERCOME!
FACT: You ETHUGLICIAN STOOGES are SO FAR GONE that I have to OVEREMPHASIZE MY WORDS to GET THROUGH TO YOUR TINY BRAINS!
FACT: BUSH is RIGGING the ELECTION on behalf of HILLARY CLINTON so that the CHAIN of CORPORATE MISRULE will continue UNBROKEN.
FACT: HILLARY is a WHOLY-OWNED subsidiary of the MULTIMEGACORPORATE MASTERS! She has been RAISED FROM BIRTH to do their BIDDING!
FACT: Only the GREEN PARTY is free from DOMINATION by CORPORATE STOOGES!!!

TRUTH: VOTE GREEN and IMPEACH BUSH!!!! NOW!!! BEFoRE ITS TOo LATE!!!!!

[Jane]

FACT: THE HOKEY POKEY IS REALLY WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT!

[anduril]

Good read:

Oh man, Hillary Clinton's got guy trouble

Michael Goodwin in the NY Daily News

[Frank G]

FACT: you're a complete moron. Find the Lithium. Take it

[Clarice]

Goodwin's piece IS right on and politico is right--surely her shills were flakking for her again.

[Porchlight]

OT - Google honors Veterans Day. I believe this is a first since their inception (they have yet to honor Memorial Day). I'm honestly amazed.

Happy Veterans Day, all!

[windansea]

Do I get a prize?

nope, Cobb salad was funnier

[Other Tom]

Jane--thanks; I'd love to see the link. I did see a follow-up piece the guy wrote last week, but maybe yesterday's was something new.

Concerning the lust to impeach, I thought it was just tried for Cheney, and the Dems voted not to do it. (Somebody compiled a list of the 81 Profiles In Courage in the Dem caucus who first voted in favor, then switched their votes when it appeared the thing might actually pass.)

[Clarice]

Chalabi was wrongfully tagged with Curveball by the CIA (anonymously, of course) as they were backing an ineffectual rival of his--Here he is:Mr. Fix It. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article2848203.ece>Mr Fix It

Had we not followed DoS's pro-consul idea and done what DoD wanted turn the keys of civil administration over to him and other Iraqi leaders--we'd have avoided a couple of years of violence and chaos.

[MikeS]

I think Truthishere is a hoax. I don't believe anyone 'thinks' like he writes.

[SunnyDay]

Do you mean Truthishere wasn't a parody????
*****************************8

What?? No. Way. That was one seriously serious post.

[centralcal]

SunnyDay: That was one seriously serious post.

LOL. And, that is why it is so hard to take it seriously.

[nes]

JMAX, dead ponies:

Ella carpenter works at the haig and so does Valerie Hooker, but, no, thats a Wosnuk.

DoS wants to sell more with their blog?
They sold off the civil society Afghanistan ngo spy usaid cia money thing from the intelligence committee. Pakistan should be civil, but they had the ngo problem before Putin. CIA just wants to bomb them agian.

Chalabi is all accidents and diseases.

[Clarice]

Is Ella Scocth or is she just confused about where the Hague is?

[Ralph L]

No, Haig & Haig is a Scotch, Ena is a Bourbon (the late Queen of Spain), Ella is a Brandy, and Britney is a Floosie.

[Jane]

OT,

Click on my name to get your link.

[Steve]

Great site!

Would you like a Link Exchange with The Internet Radio Network? At the IRN you can listen to over 50 of America’s top Talk Shows via Free Streaming Audio! In addition you can email the President, VP and Congressional Leaders!!
http://netradionetwork.com

[TexasToast]

Heh.

R's have created almost the perfect storm for a Hillary candidacy and then become "gloomy guss' “ about their handiwork. This week we have the spectacle of an Attorney General who can’t define a war crime and a Secretary of State selling the “path to democracy “ in our biggest “ally” in south Asia – which also happens to be the sanctuary of our greatest enemies. Our buddy Musharraf continues to impress – in a Shah of Iran / Augusto Pinochet sort of style.

George Will today said there was a "computer chip" where there should be a soul – but it is hard to argue with a competence meme in light of the current disaster.

[anduril]

clarice, i've long been dubious of Tyler Drumheller, due to his role in Plamegate--Seixon dug up some interviews of his. Now he's a major source in this Curveball thing. I think you're dead on about their (the Agency's) partisan animus toward Chalabi--it was motivated by rivalry with DoD over DoD's increasing role in intel.

Here's a link to a great Veteran's Day photo from Weather Underground.

[Clarice]

To me, all the evidence points to Chalabi as the most brilliant Iraqi with the closest ties to all of the major players and the one man who could have early gotten the Iraqi civil administration together. Besides falsely tagging him with Curveball (and the msm played that up and then ignored the earlier Commission findings that he had nothing to do with it), The CIA falsely accused him of spying for Iran. That was the excuse for their raiding his hq, disarming his security detail and stealing his records respecting the OFF scandal.

It's not a pretty picture.

[MikeS]

"...hard to argue with a competence meme..."

Makes sense. A competent president ought to be able to control other countries the way Bill Clinton did with Somalia, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Kosovo, etc. Hillary Clinton will make the world love us and "candies fall from the sky", the way Jimmy Carter did.

[kim]

Chalabi is, and has been, the Master of the Bazaar. Sistani is the Master of the Mosque. In these gods we trust.
====================

[Fat Man]

"Senator Clinton, is it true that everything you do and say is very tightly scripted?"

P.S. Jane rulz

[hit and run]

Can't stay and play, and even don't have time to read through and catch up -- so apologies if Gmax or anyone else has already posted this --- BUT --- Jmax is on FSN RIGHT NOW!!!

UNC is leading Florida State 1-0....

GO Jmax!

Vote Jmax!

[Sara]

What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

Posted by: Jane | November 10, 2007 at 10:30 PM

-----------------------

Definitely "Best of Thread" and. Jane, you owe me a new keyboard and monitor for this one.

[Clarice]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/11/nora_ephron_its_hard_to_be_a_d.html

[Jane]

Sara,

I actually have a wooden sign with that written on it hanging in my house. I burst out laughing every time I see it. Go figure.

[Clarice]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/11/nora_ephron_its_hard_to_be_a_d.html>Ooops

[D8SRM6880]

Plame admits she worked at Los alamos for CIA! Laptops. Of course, there's that scientist in Cali that can't figure out all those dates.

DoD role in intel. CIA moved to DoD. Air Force.

Iran. Plame worked Iran. That spy left.

Philippines, Thailand, Fiji; the FBI thing just never worked out. The coups are not 'the Stans' or are they? Anyway, there's all these wiavers now and Georgia wants the opposition to make sure there are with 'bad' elections(how to get the waivers).

Chalabi probably had nothing to do with Rice getting to run Iraq. George just wanted his 'close friend(as in Peter....MacKay)' to have a country to run. It looks good for promotions.

The soul has always been something to sell because it's lucifer now and it you get another one, it's done by lucifer. A computer chip or device is the answer because we become perfect as when God created us, but, then again, that would be Satan making us perfect creations, again. The church sells off those who think there is a chip. There is no chip. There is a device, which luciferian things would call an I'm or I am, in which case you are the device, but it was created by Satan and not meant for humans, maybe aliens, which are creations of lucifer, so it does have a negative physical affect on a human, but it's so good if your not what we were, but want to be not like all humans want.

Spock is, and always has been; my friend. It's okay about the pointy ears and the logic(device) thing.

[Sara]

Armitage Says He Was Foolish in CIA Leak...

WASHINGTON (AP) - Former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said Sunday he was foolish to have revealed Valerie Plame's CIA identity.

Armitage's acknowledgment came in response to comments by Plame, who said the former Bush administration official had no right to talk to a reporter about where she worked.

A year ago, Armitage publicly apologized to Plame and her husband. The former No. 2 State Department official remains the only principal in the leak to have done so.

At least three one-time administration officials in addition to Armitage discussed Plame's CIA status with reporters. They are former White House political adviser Karl Rove, Vice President Dick Cheney's ex-chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby and former presidential press secretary Ari Fleischer.

Armitage and Rove were the sources for a 2003 newspaper column by commentator Robert Novak that disclosed Plame's CIA employment.

Novak's column came out eight days after Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, said the administration had twisted prewar intelligence to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.

Libby was convicted this year of perjury, obstruction of justice and lying to the FBI about his conversations with reporters regarding Plame.

After receiving immunity from prosecution, Fleischer admitted to a federal grand jury that he had told reporters about Plame.

Bush, who was questioned in the criminal investigation, commuted Libby's 30-month prison sentence and never took any individual to task publicly for the leak.

In July, the president said the criminal investigation had run its course and that "now we're going to move on."

Armitage has taken a different tack.

"I think it was extraordinarily foolish of me" to have disclosed Plame's identity, Armitage said Sunday. He was agreeing with comments by Plame that he should have known better.

Armitage said there was no ill-intent on his part. He said he spoke to Novak after seeing a reference to Wilson's wife in a memo, which did not name her.

Plame sued Cheney, Rove, Libby and Armitage for alleging violating her rights, but a federal judge dismissed the case, saying there was no legal basis for it.

Despite the dismissal, the judge said the lawsuit raised important questions relating to the propriety of actions undertaken by the nation's highest government officials.

[Sara]

Armitage Says He Was Foolish in CIA Leak...

WASHINGTON (AP) - Former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said Sunday he was foolish to have revealed Valerie Plame's CIA identity.

Armitage's acknowledgment came in response to comments by Plame, who said the former Bush administration official had no right to talk to a reporter about where she worked.

A year ago, Armitage publicly apologized to Plame and her husband. The former No. 2 State Department official remains the only principal in the leak to have done so.

At least three one-time administration officials in addition to Armitage discussed Plame's CIA status with reporters. They are former White House political adviser Karl Rove, Vice President Dick Cheney's ex-chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby and former presidential press secretary Ari Fleischer.

Armitage and Rove were the sources for a 2003 newspaper column by commentator Robert Novak that disclosed Plame's CIA employment.

Novak's column came out eight days after Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, said the administration had twisted prewar intelligence to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.

Libby was convicted this year of perjury, obstruction of justice and lying to the FBI about his conversations with reporters regarding Plame.

After receiving immunity from prosecution, Fleischer admitted to a federal grand jury that he had told reporters about Plame.

Bush, who was questioned in the criminal investigation, commuted Libby's 30-month prison sentence and never took any individual to task publicly for the leak.

In July, the president said the criminal investigation had run its course and that "now we're going to move on."

Armitage has taken a different tack.

"I think it was extraordinarily foolish of me" to have disclosed Plame's identity, Armitage said Sunday. He was agreeing with comments by Plame that he should have known better.

Armitage said there was no ill-intent on his part. He said he spoke to Novak after seeing a reference to Wilson's wife in a memo, which did not name her.

Plame sued Cheney, Rove, Libby and Armitage for alleging violating her rights, but a federal judge dismissed the case, saying there was no legal basis for it.

Despite the dismissal, the judge said the lawsuit raised important questions relating to the propriety of actions undertaken by the nation's highest government officials.

[kim]

Nora Ephron, who could help being Nora Ephron.
========================================

[kim]

Armitage is foolish alright. Foolish to throw in with Clinton and the Plame/Wilsons. I wonder how Joe feels about Woodward's direct quote.
===================================

[Ralph L]

From Ephron's HuffPo piece:
I salute any man who takes charge of a thinning hairline with so much product, but Schumer's makeover always seemed to me a worrisome sign, and not merely a symptom of my own shallowness
How does she feel about comb-overs?

[Steve]

There is simply no responsible Democratic candidate to choose from.

Honestly. It's that bad. Biden clomes closest to being simply a bad choice but even he has disqualified himself.

[DCPoliticsNews]

Hey, don't fear the inevitable. Hillary is the nominee. But is there a republican who is both (1) able to beat Madam Clinton and (2) someone you can pull the lever for without feeling like you've compromised core principles?

[Rick Ballard]

Would you care to identify a core conservative principle that either Thompson, Romney or McCain have actually abandoned? Take your time, we don't expect very much at all from Democrats when principles are involved.

[Bob]

I gotta believe that the PTB in the D party are getting nervous. If Hillary has a Howard Dean Moment and goes down in flames -- not unlikely given how well she takes to being asked questions -- the D's are absolutely hosed if their remaining choices are really the O-Man and the Silky Pony. Both are lightweights who have no business getting near the White House. My guess is that the Grey Suits are already speaking quietly to Gore (hey, he came thissssClose), lining him up to step in if Hillary falls down goes boom.

[D6880]

PLAME said the President was guilty of TREASON. Not wrong, mistaken or foolish.

Armitage said she is right because she did what she accuses Bush of doing, violating IIPA and committing TREASON. She is just going to say CIA won't let her talk, but she is as sure as she was of President. She was working for another intelligence service and knew that too. TREASON.

Woodward goes to Toronto to leak like Bill goes there to ask for cash. Maybe it's smarter to leak outside your own country.

Grey men. Grey men like men in grey. Like aliens or the guys in suits who chase the aliens and can zap you for time. Hillary goes boom. Al is Navy, okay if hillary go boom. Grey men too busy chasing aliens.

[Rick Ballard]

Well, if last nights dinner in Iowa was really a "big deal", then Miz Clinton is no closer.

I keep leaning closer to Clarice's view that stiffing the waitress and then lying was one of the stupidest moves possible. Planting questions is no big deal but calling waitresses liars just causes "nuts and sluts" to come to a light simmer.

If Obama can bring off a decent murmer campaign - a lowpitched "humahummahummma" in the background with a few thousand phone calls and emails then I'd say that Miz Clinton's next two months are going to be very interesting. Obama has the lefty scum that ran the phone campaigns last year on his side and last night's speech was directed at them.

Miz Clinton, meet some other Saul Alinsky acolytes. It's only fitting.

[Topsecretk9]

She was working for another intelligence service and knew that too. TREASON.

and the CIA knows it?

[Topsecretk9]

Byron York puts up the CNN transcript:

There was no ill-intent on my part and I had never seen ever, in 43 years of having a security clearance, a covert operative's name in a memo. The only reason I knew a "Mrs. Wilson," not "Mrs. Plame," worked at the agency was because I saw it in a memo. But I don't disagree with her words to a large measure.

BLITZER: Normally in memos they don't name covert operatives?

ARMITAGE: I have never seen one named.

BLITZER: And so you assumed she was, what, just an analyst over at the CIA?

ARMITAGE: Not only assumed it, that's what the message said, that she was publicly chairing a meeting.

BLITZER: So, when you told Robert Novak that Joe Wilson, the former U.S. ambassador's wife, worked at the CIA, and she was involved somehow in getting him this trip to Africa to look for the enriched uranium, if there were enriched uranium going to Iraq, you simply assumed that she was not a clandestine officer of the CIA.

ARMITAGE: Well, even Mr. Novak has said that he used the word "operative" and misused it. No one ever said "operative." And I not only assumed it, as I say, I've never seen a covered agent's name in a memo. However, that doesn't take away from what Mrs. Plame said, it was foolish, yeah. Sure it was.

So, it's pretty much established. Valerie Plame was very, very sloppy. Like CathyF said.

[Clarice]

Armitage has said before that he never saw a secret operative's name in a memo. It's nothing new. The apology is, though it should have been to the President who would have ended this in a minute had he known.

[RE]

Yes, as you know Wolfe (He blitz's her) now runs Hershey. The CIA says CIA is where the spies are and that is what they mean. Plame was run probably since Ames and, at least, since 95 when she started violating IIPAs. What's scary is the CIA allowed her to do the same killing Ames did. So, when someone says a operations officer is retiring and they are going to kill you I would listen very close. Maybe some friends in security can do ya a favor, never know.

Treason. No, the ones who didn't talk to Plame didn't get killed.

[Topsecretk9]

What's scary is the CIA allowed her to do the same killing Ames did.

So Re, you are saying the CIA was letting Ames --Aldrich?-- betray assets because in essence, it was really messing with the Russians heads, and they were killing a lot of their own people?

[RE]

:

Why would Americans want to kill Russians? would learn alot more from a person than a corps. Alot of corps and no one talks at all. Yes, CIA let them both kill people. Maybe the information he was selling was the answer to the murders. maybe Plame wanted to know more about that information, in which case she is Ames. Ames sold her like everybody else, she went over, others didn't. She was run the day she started with her Ames investigation. She began assuming lives of people she studied(violated IIPA) and went overseas, WMD. CIA said they really didn't allow the 'Vanity Fair' article, but I don't think, knowing Ames and running Plame, anyone would be that stupid.

Howard was found hung. Maybe it was his own people?

[Topsecretk9]

Clarice

I know it is not new, but that he reiterated the point is.

I'll highlight a new point

ARMITAGE: Not only assumed it, that's what the message said, that she was *****publicly chairing***** a meeting.

She also cabled around to get people on board with an idea that the Ambass in Niger said was not needed BEFORE Cheney asked.

Wilson and Plame went to such great lengths to say all she did was simply escort him into the building and introduce him. No one's disputing *that*. No one has disputed she "convened the meeting", did she leave for a minute to grab a memo or use the restroom and then return? Was she there the whole time, but the "they outed me" was to shut people up?

"Meeting apparently convened by Valerie Wilson, a CIA WMD managerial type and the wife of Amb. Joe Wilson, with the idea that the agency and the larger USG...

Anyways, Armitage confirms she and the CIA were sloppy. Well, if she wasn't covert than the CIA wasn't sloppy.

[Clarice]

Yes..and if they were sloppy she could not meet the IIPA test that the agency was doing everything in its power to keep her identity secret.

There's no way around that.She either was not covert or if she were covert, the agency conduct removed her from the IIPA.

[Topsecretk9]

RE

She began assuming lives of people she studied(violated IIPA) and went overseas, WMD.

She pretended to be her assets. And by "violated IIPA" betrayed them.

Howard was found hung. Maybe it was his own people?

FBI.

[Topsecretk9]

Clarice

Agreed. I think it's interesting he wanted to reiterate,

she was publicly chairing a meeting.

"A" meeting.

[ordi]

Plame and Sandy Burglar must know each other

SLOPPY SLOPPY SLOPPY

[DES]

Sloppy. Whatever. I thought the point was she had lost her IIPA or her spy things when she showed up behind Ames. Everything is designed in counter intelligence so that, if someone commits treason, they get caught. Ames did. Plame did. Ames was run for at least two years before his arrest. Plame, at least 7. Plame really had no IIPA after 95 when Ames got arrested and she started checking out the things left behind. This led to things happening which is how Ames worked. Plame was Ames, but can't be arrested.

What did she say to the VP while she escootered him to the meeting. How close was she and, yes, they use poisons twice.

[Topsecretk9]

Wait a second...who knows about the cryptic commenter, but:

She began assuming lives of people she studied(violated IIPA) and went overseas, WMD.

it's an interesting thought. What happens when CIA agents assume the identity of their assets and then do thing in their name?

I think cryptic commenter is saying in doing that, someone would be betrayed, but what sort of mayhem would that cause? Especially if the agent had an axe to grind OR was political or was just seeking financial gain?

[Clarice]

Oh, please..Just stop this nonsense.

[Topsecretk9]

Plame did.

She was caught?

[ES]

Betrayal, whatever. Cryptic comme n Tater is going away cause someone doeson't understand being outside oneself and observing. OOBs are generally one way.

[kim]

I wish you knew what you know.
===================

[Other Tom]

Thanks very much, Jane--that was my original e-mail to the author, the one that prompted him to invite me to call.

An interesting thing about our converstation was the extent of his amazement that so many people from all over the country responded, uninvited, to unload on Kerry and his essential phoniness. At the time I spoke with him, which was late morning (Mass. time) on the day of his original article, he said he had over sixty e-mails from guys denouncing Kerry. I just told him we're still here, and we still know what we know, and for us it's never going to go away. God damn the man.

[Clarice]

Well, Stay healthy ,OT The draft Kerry movement is at least 4 years away.

[Topsecretk9]

OH Clarice,
I love you honey, but lighten up for goodness sakes. It's not like it really means anything or matters, does it?

I've never understood Cryptic comme n Tater anyways.

[Topsecretk9]

OOBs

Operational Order of Battle.

are generally one way.

Dod vs CIA - historically the CIA has been wrong.

[SunnyDay]

Out of Body - Coast to Coast AM - George Noury - aliens, OOB.

remote viewing.

Serious stuff. :D