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November 05, 2007



Button up your lips,TM..Despite the easrly punditwisdom that failure to pass "comprehensive immigration reform" would hurt the Reps, Barone and Kaus argue convincingly that this like the Civil Rights for Terrorists gambit, is a big ,divisive, problem for the Dems.
Go for it Matt and Atrios! Here's hoping you get your party's standard bearer to buy your very shrewd argument.


In some states you can get the voting, SSN and other federal documents right on the license(helps if it says dem).

Rick Ballard

One year from tomorrow we'll be able to gauge the "wisdom" of the progressive's efforts. Fighting for wholly fictional "rights" for terrorists while extending privileges to illegals may seem rather odd but I'm sure that the truly insane progressive mind is capable of coming up with a rationale for anything.

The DMV seems to me to be closer to the Starbucks than to the airport in this regard. What, after all, does the policy of requiring verified legal residency before issuing a driver's license accomplish? It doesn't stop people from crossing the border or overstaying their visa. It doesn't stop illegal immigrants from driving.

Is this a joke? Tongue in cheek? The DMV issues a government document that allows you to do all sorts of things besides drive a car. Buying a coffee at Starbucks just sets you back about $4.50.

I take for granted that the entire Democratic goal here is to pander to immigrants,....

Don't discount illegal voting in select areas where the fix is in -- you can't expect the unions to carry the entire vote fraud burden.


The basic issue is that it is stupid to set DMV's up as immigration enforcement centers,

Aren't DMVs set up specifically to only license people that are legal to be licensed in that state? There are various requirements, including age, driving ability, prior driving record, and residence. It isn't that the DMV is supposed to just hand a license to all comers. If there's a requirement to check for age, there can be a requirement to check for legal residence.

If it is stupid to enforce one requirement, why isn't it stupid to enforce them all?
The flipside of Iglesias's argument would be that anyone that could get a coffee at Starbucks should be able to get a license at the DMV. Now that would be stupid.


How about something not stupid? Like voting for JMax?

Night time link:

http://soccer.seniorclassaward.com/public/women/vote.aspx>Vote like there is only two weeks left!


I don't know about other states, but in Texas you have to present proof of liability insurance to get your license. If you have to prove you have insurance, why is it asking too much to prove you are a citizen?



I haven't been around much the last two weeks, but I have voted everyday for your daughter! Go Jessica!


Psst. Hey, senor. You want a driver's license, man? How bout some coffee? Real Colombian.


It would be incredibly inconvenient for everyone to need to present documentation before buying coffee.

We require ID checks for buying alcohol, cigarettes, some forms of medication, guns and a number of other items. I certainly don't want ID checks for buying coffee but I think it's worth noting that the practice of ID check isn't as inconvenient as implied.


The normally insightful Matt Yglesias
It must be tough for that one to labor in the shadow of the much better-known, predictable hack Democrat Matt Yglesias.

I take for granted that the entire Democratic goal here is to pander to immigrants
They could also be pandering to the guilty white people who don't think America deserves control over its borders. Or it could be brain-stem-level reflexive opposition to something Republicans want to do.


What, after all, does the policy of requiring fewer than 10 DWI convictions before issuing a driver's license accomplish? It doesn't stop drunks from driving.

What, after all, does the policy of requiring no murder convictions before issuing a firearm license accomplish? It doesn't stop felons from shooting.


just as a matter of interest, does any of the requirements for the issue of a u.s. driving list include a tested ability to drive? in europe driving without a licence automatically invalidates your auto insurance.

David Walser
So my question - are there any sensible or even colorable arguments to justify this pander, or is it really about as pure a pander as a pander could be?
Yes, there are colorable arguments justifying the position. One of them goes something like this: Undocumented workers drive and engage in otherwise lawful commerce in our state. Denying these workers drivers licenses drives them underground. This causes them to flee the scene of accidents (even when they are not at fault) or to run from police when caught in even minor traffic law violations. Granting undocumented workers valid drivers licenses would avoid these issues and would, thereby, increase public safety. In addition, it would bring undocumented workers out of the shadows, making it easier for them to contribute to our great society.

I don't buy that argument, but it is one that can be cogently made.


I don't buy that argument either. What good is a driver's license in an accident if you don't have insurance? It's little solace to be able to identify the guy that hit you only to have him thumb his nose at your loss. And why would illegals want a license which makes them easier to identify. It seems to me they want to be below the radar?

I guess getting out there to cast your vote for Hillary might be worth the exposure, but sheesh doesn't that feed into the stereotype that all illegals are stupid?


I'll tell you a little story about illegals and insurance. A few years ago, my youngest daughter was hit by a Hispanic woman who ran a red light. She presented driver's license, proof of insurance and was ticketed for failure to yield, or something. She spoke no English, or at least pretended to not speak English. We were provided a copy of her insurance card. Guess what? Fake. The phone number was fake. The insurance company was fake. I called the police department and spoke with the officer who investigated the accident. Explained the situation. I had tracked down the owner of the vehicle through the license plate. Told him I had spoken to someone at the address who spoke little English. The young lady had disappeared. What did I want them to do, asked? And this was in Farmers Branch Texas where they have tried to crack down on illegals. Having a driver's license, having proof of insurance is not good enough. No one cares if they present fake documents. My daughter's car was totaled. We wound up negotiating with our own insurance company and you don't have much leverage to get an amount above the book value of the car. Made a nice down payment for a new car but certainly not enough to replace the one she was driving that was paid for.

Do not allow them to have a driver's license. It provides no protection.

Her driver's license was not fake, btw. It had been issued by the State of Texas.


jane- part of the theory is that a drivers license will allow illegals to buy insurance.
But Sue raises a good point- why go through the bureaucracy if fake is available?
The other argument I've seen is that getting a license will encourage illegals to take lessons and study for the test, thus they will be better drivers.
Of course, there is nothing stopping them from doing that now.
If you're being paid low wages, sending some of that back home, and trying to afford to live in the us, actually buying insurance is expensive. What is the penalty for getting caught driving without a license or without insurance? If it is less than the penalty for getting caught being an illegal alien, don't you think that's the option people will take?

Regardless of any of the practical effects, I just don't believe you can have the State documenting people it knows to be here illegally. The Feds have managed to control the State's drinking age and speed limit by threatening highway funds. I would support the same thing in this case.


Has anyone posting here tried driving their US licensed car in Mexico? You have to have Mexican insurance when crossing the border. Heaven help you if you hit a Mexican car without this insurance. It is directly to jail until things are sorted out.
I was hit in a parking lot by an illegal mexican without insurance in Washington state years ago and the cop who came onto the scene said he couldn't do anything because it wasn't on public property. And it played havoc with my insurance.


I was hit in a parking lot by an illegal mexican without insurance in Washington state years ago and the cop who came onto the scene said he couldn't do anything because it wasn't on public property. And it played havoc with my insurance.

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