The 'Dark Star' Sex Non-Scandal - Keep Al Gore Alive!

Let me throw in two cents on the Rosenbaum "Dark Star" non-scandal.  Despite an absolute absence of evidence I would like to toss Al Gore's hat in the ring:

So I was down in DC this past weekend and happened to run into a well-connected media person, who told me flatly, unequivocally that “everyone knows” The LA Times was sitting on a story, all wrapped up and ready to go about what is a potentially devastating sexual scandal involving a leading Presidential candidate. “Everyone knows” meaning everyone in the DC mainstream media political reporting world. “Sitting on it” because the paper couldn’t decide the complex ethics of whether and when to run it. The way I heard it they’d had it for a while but don’t know what to do. The person who told me )not an LAT person) knows I write and didn’t say “don’t write about this”.

Rosenbaum then delivers a thumbsucker about the media process rather than taking the icy plunge and delivering the dish (hmm, I cannot endorse or embrace my current Metaphor-Masher).  But as to plunges and dish, we have no such compunction!

Lots of reax at Memeorandum: Blog speculators are focusing on Hillary and Huma or Bill and a woman.  But I don't think anyone has mentioned Al Gore, mainly because he is not a declared candidate.  But so what?  Bettors have him trailing only Hillary and Obama in the Dem field; and yet, the "Will he or won't he" stories following his Nobel Prize disappeared almost immediately two weeks ago.  Is he really staying out of the simply because he thinks he can do more to save the planet and a private citizen wielding a Peace Prize?  Maybe! 

But if the guy who is the blindingly obvious alternative to Hillary - experienced, well-known, and a previous Presidential winner (or so Dems say) - is staying out because of a problem with his personal life, well, I can see an ethical dilemma in publishing that.  On the one hand the public arguably has a right to know why the best person to stop the Hillary Juggernaut has gone AWOL.  On the other hand, why should the LA Times slime a private citizen who is not a declared candidate?  Just wondering out loud here.

Meanwhile:

Captain Ed exhorts the media to stick to the high road; his commenters opine that since the high road would be the path less taken of the candidate in question were a Republican, this amounts to unilateral disarmament.  Advantage, commenters!

Patterico gets a denial from Matt Welch (formerly of Reason and now with the LA Times) and believes it.

Ace thinks "Ron Rosenbaum is either being played or is being a dink."  The "played" theory" is articulated in UPDATE 2 by Dave in Texas:

But, given what Rosenbaum has written, I think it more likely that he is being played by someone with a dirtier motive.

In DC media circles, the phrase "everybody knows about it" is often code. Political Operatives with sketchy info try to get a credulous reporter to disseminate their dirt by enhancing it's credibility with those 4 little words. Not only do the words obstensibly add credibility, but they also get the competitive juices flowing. Everyone wants to be first to break the STORY OF THE CENTURY!

Let's see - some blogger (link?) posted the notion that it's Hillary and Huma but no one will ever be able to prove it - Huma is supposed to be with Hillary 24/7, so waddya gonna write if she is spotted leaving Hillary's hotel room at 4 AM?.

CONTINUING...

Comments

[Topsecretk9]

from a coomment at pj blog with author response

We've had close experience of this in Oregon. For something like 17 years, "everybody" knew that Bob Packwood had been periodically groping women, including journalists, across the country. No one told until, coincidentally, a Democratic challenger had been groomed and was ready to take him on. The Washington Post broke the story, and for a long time I saw bumper stickers that said, "If it's important to Oregon, you'll read about it in the Washington Post" (a turn on an Oregonian slogan). More recently, "everybody" knew that Gov. Neil Goldschmidt had a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old girl. But for some reason it was never newsworthy until 30 years later. It seems like a club -- in both senses of a private association and a weapon to be wielded at the right time -- and the media's ethical issues are -- surprise, surprise -- directly related to their trust issues...

Yes! The "club" issue was what I was trying to write about, although after it was picked up it turned into a giant guessing game. ..

[colanut22]

It's very interesting that tim russert and the other candidates all grew 'big ones' and decided at the same time to go after Hitlery. Coincidences very seldom happen in washington. There has to be something swirling somewhere!

[Other Tom]

Even if it's true, and even if it becomes public, she'll still get the nomination and she'll still win in 2008. I hate to say it, but I believe it's true. You heard it here, folks.

[Clarice]

Loved this TM:"Captain Ed exhorts the media to stick to the high road; his commenters opine that since the high road would be the path less taken of the candidate in question were a Republican, this amounts to unilateral disarmament. Advantage, commenters!"

Absolutely so. Capt Ed (and I adore him) is always for unilateral disarmament in this context.

[MayBee]

Yes, I too adore Capt Ed. I fear he is such an honorable man that he never expects dishonor in others. He doesn't just turn the other cheek, he actually seems to present the first cheek and beg his opponents to slap it.

[Clarice]

As for Gore--get serious, Tom. Who puts on weight in the middle of an affair? Really!!

[Clarice]

BigHead has some mock ups for covers should the story ever break out.
http://bigheaddc.com/2007/11/01/possible-lesbian-hillary-titillating-tell-all-titles/>Tell all titles

[PeterUK]

"As for Gore--get serious, Tom. Who puts on weight in the middle of an affair? Really!!"

There doesn't have to be anyone else involved,just Al and his expanding ego.

[bgates]

On the other hand, why should the LA Times slime a private citizen who is not a declared candidate?
Because he's an actor who had a role as a white supremacist 15 years ago, and he's a Republican?

[GMax]

Hit:

I maybe incommunicado as tomorrow is a travel day and then a hotel with unknown connectibility and then the game.

If you do make it in, their is a designated parents ( of the players ) sitting area. Look for me there at halftime, I will be the 6 foot redhead with the UNC Womens Soccer hat on. If the weather permits I will also have on a tshirt with # 24 on the back.

Everyone else:

I need someone in my absence to post a link and remind the faithful to vote. She pulled ahead briefly today but then went back to 2nd ( although I think she is back in first as we speak ). You know that means its within a few votes at this point. Give her some cushion please. And as always, thanks a whole bunch.

[PeterUK]

VOTE!!!

[Topsecretk9]

Worth the read!

They’ll tell me that I should have expected it and that I should never have trusted a reporter from the country’s leading left-wing newspaper. But I did expect more, and still do....

...I’m glad that Blackwater has decided to defend itself, even if it means losing contracts. I’m betting the State Department bureaucrat who threatened to ruin them can’t wait to “review” their contracts — another reason why one of the biggest outrages here is the inability to fire incompetent, abusive career civil servants.

[Clarice]

Ah. but we can send them to SiberiaIraq

[hit and run]

Gmax - I'm still gonna try. I started running a fever last night, stayed home from work today, and have barely made it from my bed to the sofa and back. I'm officially downgrading my status to Doubtful, but am holding out hope that I'll wake up chipper tomorrow.

Now, off to vote...

[Kevin B]

Looking at this from Capt Ed's

his commenters opine that since the high road would be the path less taken if the candidate in question were a Republican, this amounts to unilateral disarmament.

And this from the story

Sitting on it because the paper couldn’t decide the complex ethics of whether and when to run it.

If the story were, say, Rudy had a gay affair 20 years ago, the complex ethics of when to run it boil down to "do we run it before the nomination and thus leave the Dems battling the arguably more conservative Fred or Mitt, or after when Rudy has the nomination and thus derail his candidacy."

Added to that is the fact that someone else might scoop them anyway.

The whether part of this complex ethical conundrum might be that if it comes to a Hillary v Rudy matchup, the LAT might find Rudy the more acceptable candidate. They did after all take point on the Hsunami.

[Clarice]

Hit, I'm sorry to hear you are sick. I see Jane's already been by and dropped off her home remedy.Take my friendly advice. Dump it. Here's some chicken soup I made for you.

[Jane]

Where is my home remedy? And more important, what is it?

[Clarice]

Right--try that innocent act elsewhere, sweetie.

[Enigmaticore]

Wouldn't this more likely be what Kaus was talking about a week or two ago? If so, it wasn't Hillary.

[Other Tom]

After reading Matt Welch, I conclude that Rosenbaum was duped and there's nothing there. More's the pity.

[Sue]

The fallout from last night's debate must be more than I thought it would be. Newt has dropped Hillary's chances from 80% to 50% and Bush 41 doesn't even think she'll get the nomination. She must be kicking herself for not being prepared for that question. I would like to volunteer to take over the kicking when she tires.

[Rick Ballard]

"I would like to volunteer to take over the kicking when she tires."

Could we, like, you know, trade off every once in a while? I'll be happy to take graveyard or weekends - even holidays. Anything to get on the team.

[Sue]

Rick,

We can tag team.

[Rick Ballard]

That would be fine. I'll start working on my left foot. Maybe Jessica could give me some tips? The power is OK but my accuracy isn't very good.

[Dave]

I'm guessing that if the Hillary/Huma thing pans out, it will improve her standing within the D party, pulling back over many of the people she lost with her (former) support of the GWOT, and helping her chances to win the nomination.
In the '08 general, I'm not sure.

[Mo]

Rumor has it that John Edwards was screwing Liberace's corpse but Liberace considered Edwards to fucking faggoty.

www.moronsinchapelhill.com

[Sue]

The power is OK but my accuracy isn't very good.

Have you seen that as...mmmm...that wasn't going to be very kind of me. Let me put it this way, you can't miss.

[Neo]

Will al Qaeda members in the USA get their own cards under the Clinton/Spitzer plan ? Proper identification would clearly entitle them to Geneva Convention status that is currently denied.
What about Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah ?
For that matter will there be vanity cards for Sandinistas, Black Panthers, Tupamaros, Basque separatists, Viet Minh, Bosnians, Bohemians, Nihilists, Tamil Tigers, Ulster Unionists, Nazis, neo-Nazis, Dominionists, Communists, Boxers, Janjaweed, Fedayeen, Underground Railroaders, Vegans, Dead Heads, and Earth First-ers ?

Since the comprehensive dhimmi-facation package hasn't been passed by the Congress, the states must step in and take up the matter on their own.

[Topsecretk9]

JMH is my hero!

Also, loving the rich tasty irony of a bunch of lefties bitching about bad reviews being made without reading the book, and desperate pleas not to do so...I guess it takes fascist book burners to think they know fascist book burning.

[Elliott]

Tops:

The Amazon reviewer in your link is called JHM so I don't think that's JMH.

[Rick Ballard]

Vote Jmax

Vote Climate Audit while you're at it. (Free carbon credits to the first 50,000 voters)

[Bill in AZ]

As long as you're all voting don't miss Vote JustOneMinute! Can't believe JOM isn't in one of the other categories.

[Jane]

Jess has pulled ahead!

(about bloody time)

[Neo]

The only thing that JMH left out was this statement from a letter by Joe Wilson to the Senate Intelligence Committee: "I never claimed to have "debunked" the allegation that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa. I claimed only that the transaction described in the documents that turned out to be forgeries could not have occurred and did not occur."

Of course, the "forgeries" part undermined his credibility.

[Tomf]

Here at the office everybody knows that it's Fred. He was helping Britney with the custody thing, she suggested a dip in the ocean and ...

[PeterUK]

How can you b so dismissive about Hil's rear end some people sing songs about it

[Rick Ballard]

Kaus again.

The thing that I don't like about this (he said, carefully adjusting his Vizzini hat) is that it gives Miz Clinton a nice excuse to drop HamaHamaHama without giving the girl a reason to make a pile off of the expose story. Hama is going to suffer Sox's fate (at least she'll be spared Buddy's) and Clinton's patented "Crodile Tears About Mean Republicans" will flow like the Nile.

At the same time, the Clinton Scum Team (hi, Sid!) will use this as the rationale for opening up a few of Rudy's closets.

Without pictures or Huma's sworn statement, this can't go much farther than innuendo and it ain't like anybody could be surprised if Miz Clinton showed up on a Harley wearing a long sleeved wool shirt and red suspenders.

She's an incompetent, graceless, whiny shrew without a single accomplishment worth mention - why not stick with that rather than contemplating her abuse of position by enslaving interns as sex toys? Hammering on Bubba for being a pervert and rapist actually cost seats in '98.

Why would this be different?

[Porchlight]

True, Rick. You are right that it would be much more preferable to hammer her on the issues and expose her rotten personality in the process. I was thinking that the media would be more or less forced to cover a Hillary sex scandal (as opposed to the campaign finance scandals they've mostly ignored thus far).

But the beating she's taking on Spitzer and the drivers' licenses, and her poor response, is encouraging. I was beginning to think no one could pierce that forcefield.

[Sue]

I was beginning to think no one could pierce that forcefield.

They can pierce it they just have no desire to pierce it. What's left if she goes down? They want the WH.

[Jane]

And for today's succint award:

She's an incompetent, graceless, whiny shrew without a single accomplishment worth mention

I say let the liberal media report the story and have the conservative media stay out of it. We can just sit here and laugh about it.

[Porchlight]

Sue, I was thinking that the forcefield = Hillary + media. The illegal immigration arrow seems to be one of the few that consistently makes it through despite MSM spin in the other direction. I hope and pray the GOP is paying attention...

[Clarice]

John Fund has a good piece today linking the drivers license plan by Spitzer with vote fraud.(Spitzer earlier ordered that the MVD stop requiring Soc Sec cards to get licenses..ergo............)

[Sue]

How long before Bubba shows up to correct what Hillary said in the debate? I read somewhere that Hillary tried a Bubba but she ain't no Bubba and shouldn't try to be Bubba.

[hit and run]

Sue:
but she ain't no Bubba and shouldn't try to be Bubba.

But if Hill is getting some Huma on the side, maybe she's got a little Bubba in her after all?

[Clarice]

She can sling it but she can't take it--Ladies First in Hillaryland! In that children's thing "Free to Be You and Me" starring Marlo Thomas, there's a cute song about a nasty girl who always insisted ,"Ladies First" and then came upon a hungry croc--her companions insisted "Ladies First" and she was eaten up. This could be a good UTube bit starring her highness.

[kim]

It's a metaphor for her whole campaign. First a gang of men Democrats, then a gang of men Republicans, last a gang of men voters. Ooh, the scars may be lustrous.
===============================

[Porchlight]

That Fund piece was grim, but this was a bright light:

While states such as New York are increasing the risk of such fraud, a half-dozen states have recently adopted laws requiring voters to offer proof of identity or citizenship before casting a ballot. A federal commission, co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker, gave such laws a big boost in 2005 when it called for a nationwide policy requiring a photo ID before voting.

I had to read the Jimmy Carter part twice, I couldn't believe he had done anything I agreed with.

'This Will Make Voter Fraud Easier'

[kim]

Dang, may they be lysistrous. Too bad, it'll be so sad.
===============================

[kim]

Schumer's war with Gonzales wasn't about torture, it was about voter fraud.
===============================

[Sue]

Sue: but she ain't no Bubba and shouldn't try to be Bubba.

But if Hill is getting some Huma on the side, maybe she's got a little Bubba in her after all?

Posted by: hit and run | November 02, 2007 at 11:32 AM

::horror::

::grin::

[kim]

Great minds run through the same Fallopian Tubes.
=================================

[hit and run]

Filed under "Life's simple pleasures"

What's better than when you look at the Soccer vote, seeing Jmax in second place -- and then when you record your vote, the leaderboard comes back up and she's in FIRST!!!!

OK, I've been away from the voting too long as it is, gotta get back to it....

[hit and run]

Oh, and apologies to anyone else that wanted to experience the joy of seeing Jmax move from 2nd to 1st.

She ain't slippin' back to 2nd again.

[kim]

Oh, and Sue, wouldn't it be so yeastfully aromatic if the story weren't yet done, and the complex ethics preclude loud talking or stomping in the room.
==========================================

[Jane]

Oh geez - I bold a word I misspell.

Succinct

Someone really should make fun of me.

[Neo]

he beating she's taking on Spitzer and the drivers' licenses, and her poor response

This is why it was a mistake to pass up the FoxNews debate a while back. Hiliary has had a softball romance going back to her first Senate run.

[Sue]

Someone really should make fun of me.

Why? So you can return the favor? ::grin::

[cathyf]

jmax was on top at 3am, get back to work you scallywags!!!

[Jane]

She's up again, but she needs a cushion!

[Sue]

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Headlines/frtHEAD01110207.htm>Wow Senator Craig should rethink his stance, no pun intended.

[PeterUK]

"But if Hill is getting some Huma on the side, maybe she's got a little Bubba in her after all?"

But she doesn't have a sense of Huma.

[MayBee]

My great regret is that Jane did not liveblog that Hillary moment. It coulda been great.

[hit and run]

Dang.

Them is some fightin' illini.

I can't even hold on to 1st, much less give her a cushion.

[Neo]

After 9/11, the Justice Department found that eight of the 19 hijackers were registered to vote.

This is disgusting.

[Jane]

My great regret is that Jane did not liveblog that Hillary moment. It coulda been great.

I actually watched it too. I logged on here before going to bed and H&R was wondering why I wasn't live-blogging - which was the first I'd heard of the debate. I regret it too because it was breathtaking.

[ann]

Security at the Palo Verde Nuclear power plant 50 miles west of Phoenix, Arizona stopped a worker from driving onto the grounds with a small explosive device, according to officials... Developing... Drudgereport

[Sue]

I'm listening to Hannity and he is telling a story about Bubba defending Hillary over the immigration flap. I knew it would happen sooner rather than later. He who walks on water is carrying the water for his lovely bride.

[RichatUF]

I'm done with a stripped out version of my review. It isn't my best work-I've be distracted with a lot of things going on. Look at is a really rough draft.

Introduction

Fair Game, the autobiography by Valerie Plame Wilson, discusses her career in the CIA and the controversy surrounding her being named in a Novak article and the trial and conviction of Scooter Libby. The book is difficult to quantify. Parts are heavily redacted [the Afterword by Laura Rozen tries to fill in some of the gaps, but is heavily sourced to the VIPS and their allies] and for some 300 pages [with an additional 80 page Afterword] on a central point of the Iraq War debate, weapons proliferation, it is surprising how little there is to the book. Two themes are readily identifiable in the work: the lesser one is the cultural politics of the 1990’s and how this shapes Valerie Wilson’s insights, and the other larger theme, is the debate between the Strategic Crime thesis of the Clinton Administration and the Bush Doctrine. These themes interact through: the state of knowledge on Iraq’s weapons programs as of 2001; the issues that Valerie Wilson terms as administration deceit: specifically, “The 16 Words”, the aluminum tubes, and Ahmad Chalabi; the media exposure after Joe Wilson’s NYT column; and the role the administration played in the leak of her name to the press and subsequent Libby trial and conviction.

[RichatUF]

Key Theme 1

A lesser theme that runs through the work is the cultural politics of the 1990’s and its power in driving US politics today. I could come up with something snappy and say that the cultural politics of the 1990’s can be called Clinton Progressivism and what it believes is “what polled well with soccer moms at shopping malls today”. That would trivialize it; however Wilson provides enough insights to tease out the issues. She provides the standard “reality-based” model of grievances: the Bush failures during Katrina, irresponsible tax-cuts, the importance of Title IX, the erosion of civil rights-all the key taking points are present and interspersed through the work.

[RichatUF]

Key theme 2

The larger issue in Fair Game that can be teased out is the conflict of the Clinton Administration’s Strategic Crime thesis, which has at its core, individual bad actors on the international stage commit “strategic crime” to affect policy. It can be summed up as “the law enforcement approach”, “narco-traffickers, weapons-proliferators, and terrorists” and “bring them to justice”. This was replaced with the Bush Doctrine which holds that the US will use military power to remove rouge nations that support terror groups that present a serious threat to the US. The creation of the CPD office in 1996, where Wilson would eventually work, fit with the Clinton Administration’s overall theme of conducting international relations through a legalist, transnational framework with bad actors being seen as criminals and a downgrading of the nation-state support that those bad actors receive*. The Iraq War debate brought the legalist, transnational approach from the seminar room to the field and produced its most memorable moment-the lawyerly presentation by Sec. Colin Powell of the US “case” before the UN on February 5 2003 and the eventual withdrawal of our bill. It has also produced that debates most enduring controversies-the President’s SOTU address in 2003 [the ’16 words’] and a lesser dispute centered on the possible uses of some specialty aluminum tubes. This argument between the two approaches is the oxygen that keeps the flame burning; moreover, this argument is a political issue [the best approach to trans-national concerns], not one of intelligence, and reading the book, it seems that Valerie Wilson cannot tell the difference.

*AQ Khan is an interesting case. Pakistan is not a member to the various counter-proliferation treaties regarding nuclear weapons [NPT, CTB]. How is it “illegal” under international law for AQ Khan to have done what he did, when Pakistan is not subject to its jurisdiction? He was conducting Pakistani foreign policy, why would we approach the problem like he was a nuclear bootlegger?

[RichatUF]

Insights

The intersection of her politics and her duties can best be seen in the publication of Joe Wilson’s NYT editorial. This is an interesting aspect of her character: she would rather serve [until she retired] and undermine a policy from the inside, with which she disagreed, than resign to bring attention to the policy in the first place. She says she did this out of a sense of duty [“truth to power”], but after one reads the book, it can only be summed up that it was taken as a calculated political act on her part. She says that the Bush Administration ruined her career, but this is difficult to support, seeing as she was allowed to retire and publish a book. Strip out the passion of the Iraq War and insert some other benign incident, and I’d be curious how likely a CIA officer would be kept around with an 8-page article with photos published in Vanity Fair, without a notice to her managers at the CIA-even accepting the proposition that it was an interview with Joe and that she went “for a walk in the park”. The Vanity Fair article provided a rich source of biographical information on Valerie Wilson-providing much more information than Novak ever published, and before that date, probably more than what could have been found from any other single open source document-on or off line.

[RichatUF]

Conclusions and Commentary

In Fair Game, Valerie Wilson, doesn’t cut a sympathetic figure. In parts of the work she is vindictive to former colleagues. In other parts she is unconcerned for other CIA officers who have been exposed by the press and to others caught up in her own scandal (Judy Miller especially, because during the relevant time frame, Miller didn’t write anything about Valerie Wilson, it was only after she testified to the grand jury that she wrote something). In other parts of the book she is seemingly clueless as to the impression that the A-lister name-dropping and glittering parties, which also intersperse the work, might engender. It would be easy to dismiss the work as the last word from a disgruntled CIA officer, whom realizing errors in judgment, is attempting the mother of all “CYA-by-whistleblower” moves. However, this would indicate some level of incompetence on her part, and the one thing that does not come across while reading the book, is incompetence.

The book has a through-going malice in its prose-against the Bush Administration, for Scooter Libby, for Karl Rove, for Judy Miller, and anyone else who might question her motives and practices. However, by my reading, it is surprising how little light she sheds on her actions regarding the Iraq War debate, almost as if the Iraq War and the debate surrounding it is an after thought. It comes down to three Bush Administration “lies”: the “16 Words”-which stated British Intelligence, not US Intelligence; and Africa, not Niger. She gets around this with subtle elation and then by not addressing the Butler Commission Report which found the remarks “well-founded”. Another issue is over the tubes. Again this is trivial-they were banned under the sanctions and Hussein had no legitimate use for them. Her role was discovering how they were procured, which took her around the world in 2001. As the Duelfer Report showed in their investigation, the Oil for Food program provided a rich front through which dual use and banned items were shipped into Iraq. The third administration lie is Ahmad Chalabi and the information he provided. She calls him Machiavellian and blames him for most of the “bad intelligence”. However, by her own account, Iraq’s activities were troubling and Iraq’s “denial-and-deception” efforts were successful. Couple this with the lack of independent, insider information, I’m curious how she believed we could get any information that would have answered the Bush Administration’s concerns to the President’s satisfaction [maybe she was angling to send Joe there as well, seeing as how, by her own account, one of the reasons why he was selected to go to Niger, is that we didn’t have anyone in Niger (and Africa generally) to sniff around looking for stuff and asking questions].

[Topsecretk9]

OUCH - Gereghaty and Kos are right.

The Edward's camp pulled off a brilliant campaign bust on Hillary.

[Jane]

Rich,

That is really fascinating.

[Rick Ballard]

The ad itself.

Now somebody needs to ask her about taking a position on Hama...

Rich,

Great job - thank you.

[MayBee]

It comes down to three Bush Administration “lies”: the “16 Words”-which stated British Intelligence, not US Intelligence; and Africa, not Niger.

The 16-words argument is fascinating to me. Those arguing the supposed import are also the first to point out it had been deleted from other addresses leading up to the war. It may have been wrong, but it certainly wasn't one of the main arguments for war.

Rich- Valerie has made a point of stating that by May 2003 Joe was working the back channels to determine what the 16 words had to do with his trip. Does she ever state what he found out in his 4 months of inquiry? Does she explain how the forgeries got mixed in with his story once he went public?

[Sue]

Rich,

Thanks for reading it, so I don't have to.

[anduril]

I searched for infoUSA on this page and didn't find it, so I'll paste in this FR url:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1920213/posts

One commenter claims Huma Abedin is pronounced "Who 'mah beddin'." I don't know any Arabic, but it sounds plausible.

[cathyf]

Her role was discovering how they were procured, which took her around the world in 2001.

So, Rich, (and thank you thank you thank you for reading it so we don't have to... :-) can you tell from her description how she was presented to foreign governments during her 'round-the-world aluminum-tubes tour? In a minimally-competent intelligence agency, a particular government's covert intelligence operatives would talk to its overt intelligence operatives, and overt intelligence operatives would talk to overt intelligence operatives in other governments, but a covert intelligence operative would never identify him/herself by any means but the cover story to any agents of any kind of any foreign government.

So, when Valerie Plame talked to foreign governments in 2001, did she identify herself as a US Government WMD expert?

[hit and run]

anduril:
One commenter claims Huma Abedin is pronounced "Who 'mah beddin'." I don't know any Arabic, but it sounds plausible.

I always claim to be an anti-conflationist just before doing something like this...

Hsumabeddin'

I'm not implying that Hsu was just being used to fund Huma's Prada fix...

[Clarice]

Richard, it is good. If you edit it a bit more and want to submit it to AT, let me know and I'll alert the editor. C

[cathyf]

*snort* Yeah, right, h&r. Conflationist is part of your fame. The alcohol-fueled conflations are the most impressive. (As opposed to the alcohol-fueled conflagerations, which are completely different...)

[MayBee]

Did she address why the CIA didn't pay the man?

Listening to NPR the other day, I heard her (again) defending the Vanity Fair photo by saying she was 'unrecognizable'. That she even asserts it is laughable, but I don't know if it reflects poorly on her alone or on the CIA in general.

Your point about her disdain for Judy Miller is a good one. Does she show similar disdain for other reporters that hesitated in revealing their sources but didn't print- such as Matt Cooper, Bob Woodward, and David Gregory?

[hit and run]

Cathy, let me assure you the alcohol-fueled conflagarations are much more impressive than any conflationations that I've done here.

Well, maybe that's bluster on my part, though.

I mean, "they" have only called the fire department on one of my fires once.

And I am a bit gun-shy this year because of the drought. Fine, whatever, say I lack conflagojones. I do. You can't build fires from a jail cell.

[PaulL]

The stupidest mistake with the "16 words" was the White House disavowing it later as a mistake. If they'd have insisted it was true, and it is incontrovertible that, as stated, it was factually true, there wouldn't have been such a fuss.

The British did find this information, as the President clearly stated.

It was the weakness of the White House in not standing their ground that led to the problem. And all over a trivial statement.

[Clarice]

I believe it was Hadley who did that while everyone was out of town. And I know it was that dunce Fleischer who told reporters the statement was made on the basis of the forgeries.

[MayBee]

And I know it was that dunce Fleischer who told reporters the statement was made on the basis of the forgeries.

Yeah, I think he had read the Kristof piece.

[RichatUF]

Thank you all for the compliments, and if anyone hates it thank you for that to. This striped out version is a stand in, because the book has really inspired me. I have a bunch of literature piled up in boxes, in my favorites folder, and scattered around my computer that has come together in a great idea-now I have to capitalize it.

Maybee-

Does she ever state what he found out in his 4 months of inquiry? Does she explain how the forgeries got mixed in with his story once he went public?

The first answer is the subtle elation that I mentioned-she says that Joe was engaged writing, making speeches, and media interviews [ie. politically engaged] at this point, but any larger "investigation" isn't discussed. The forgeries are explained by referring to "The Italian Letter" and I'd have to survey the Afterword more throughly to gleen any information.

cathyf-

can you tell from her description how she was presented to foreign governments during her 'round-the-world aluminum-tubes tour?

This is a heavily redacted section from Ch8-and I goofed, her trip was 2002 [another set of tubes, actually], not the 2001 set. The 2001 controversey begins on p. 122, which she calls, "The crime and colossal failure...was that these disagreements were relegated to footnotes... [another insight I suppose is that there were multiple sets of tubes]. In her travels, she traveled with a group which spoke to foreign government officials [its an interesting section, she talks about a place in the ME as "Las Vegas on steroids" {wonder where that could be}, and the beach club they stayed at. Wonder if they even bothered to sweep the place for bugs.

clarice-

If you edit it a bit more and want to submit it to AT, let me know and I'll alert the editor.

I'd like to send something over on Sunday if it wouldn't be a problem. I have a piece that is based on this that has better text references and more in line with the interests of the JOM community. This was more brainstorming for my other idea.

MayBee-

Did she address why the CIA didn't pay the man?

Specifically no. The genesis of the idea was that a phone call from the VP's office caused a reaction with "Penny", which caused her to speak to Valerie, which was overheard by "walking by guy"/"reports officer"/"debriefer" [another character that doesn't cut an impressive figure in her work]. She does go out of her way to say explicitly that Joe didn't sign a NDA however (p. 139), which is curious, because this is in Ch.9, with the genesis of the NYT op-ed.

Does she show similar disdain for other reporters that hesitated in revealing their sources but didn't print- such as Matt Cooper, Bob Woodward, and David Gregory?

I posted the strange passage about Matt Cooper in another thread (p. 220-1), when they ran into him after the SC declined cert on Miller etal.. This statement says it all I think [and without a hint of irony]: "In the debate over whether reporters should be compelled to reveal their sources, it seemed to me that some of the leading advocates of reporters' First Amendment rights has lost sight of a basic fact in this case: people in the administration had used reporters to advance their own political agenda." (p. 221)

PaulL-

It was the weakness of the White House in not standing their ground that led to the problem.

It looked like amature hour at the White House, but I am willing to give them a life line. The story blew up when they were away on the Africa trip and a large portion of DC was on vacation-say what you will about the rest of the story, the Wilson's know DC, and can launch one hell of a blackhat attack.

[Ralph L]

Rich, I believe you mean "elision", not "elation."

[Sue]

Rich,

Does Valerie address the move she was making from CIA to State in 2003?

[Sue]

Looks like everyone who was going to purchase the book has done so. Fair Game has moved down to # 84 on Amazon's list.

[RichatUF]

RalphL-

Rich, I believe you mean "elision", not "elation."

Yes...I should turn off the idiot check.

Sue-

Does Valerie address the move she was making from CIA to State in 2003?

Not specifically. The parts dealing with her career are well redacted [and a funny H&R moment with one of them]. From the text it sounds like she was trying to move sideways within the CIA, not jump ship to State. The book and Afterword isn't indexed so I'd have search for it from notes for find the specific passages.

Funny H&R moment with the redactions:

On p.46 one of the sentences is presented as follows:"[...redacted....] Many of my weekend trips[...redacted...]had a secret [redacted] agenda..."

[Topsecretk9]

RECALL ALL-- that the CIA's censorship-ness revolved round FICTION and that CIA viewed the book as fiction and told Princess she was fine to print it as fiction.

FYI

[Tonto]

Seen this?

Leave Hillary Alone!

[Sue]

Top,

I don't remember hearing that. Do you remember where you read it so I can?

[Topsecretk9]

he CIA had also demanded "significant portions" of Wilson's manuscript be "excised or rendered 'fiction'" to protect the secrecy of Wilson's service before 2002, it said.

This is most I can find now, but it was the CIA spokesman who said it -- it was a story before she sued the CIA -- it was about the problems she was having at the review board and Plame crew claimed the CIA was censoring her and preventing her from printing the book and the CIA guy said she was free to print the book in it's current form if she labeled it fiction and said the CIA can't basically endorse fiction as fact.

I recall reading it in WAPO but can't remember and I KNOW I quoted and linked it.- just can't find it now.

[PeterUK]

"It looked like amature hour at the White House, but I am willing to give them a life line. The story blew up when they were away on the Africa trip and a large portion of DC was on vacation-say what you will about the rest of the story, the Wilson's know DC, and can launch one hell of a blackhat attack."

It would be interesting to learn how Joe Wilson actually got the coveted op ed slot.Let's face it,most journalist would give up their seat at the bar,or a least sacrifice their first born to achieve the "Holy Grail" of a NYT opinion piece.
Who authorised it,was it an editorial board decision,did the NYT lawyers scrutinise the piece first? More to the point was there political influence to get this somewhat obscure B list ex-diplomat onto the pages of the NYT.
Of course you can question the timing,but who pulled the strings? It is doubtful that either of the Wilsons had the beef to do this unaided.

[kim]

Rockefeller and Kerry.
======================