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November 15, 2007

Comments

Other Tom

I hate her because her Tradesports number for the nomination remains steady as Gibraltar at 71 cents, right where it was before the debate, before the planted questions, and etc.

Will that do?

Jane

Ahhh finally a topic I can really get behind.

How do I hate Hillary? Let me count the ways...

centralcal

Oh, goody - a how many ways to hate Hillary contest! I wanna play.

kim

Seventy Million Ways to Hate Hillary.
==================================

Clarice

Jason was in my son's cub scout troop. I feel it inappropriate to comment.

kim

Denmother? Otherwise, fair game.
=========

Porchlight

Left and right seem to agree that the media is in the tank for Hillary (though they differ on the reasons why). Challenging her "anointed" status might carry weight with both sides.

Clarice

Good point, kim. I wasn't the denmother. The argument he makes is ridiculous.

MayBee

It's like The Simpson's Mr. Burns. While he appears perfectly healthy, he is actually so riddled with different illnesses that it all balances out.

Many people hate Hillary, but for so many different reasons you can't sustain a rally against her. I can see it, even if it is ridiculous.

Ralph L

The problem with not believing what comes out of her mouth is that most people believe that about most politicians. Years of her husband's mendacity have paved the way for hers.

dick

I like the idea of a general purpose reason. In my case the umber of ways approaches infinity. I don't trust her now, I didn't trust either of them before 1992 and I have seen no reason to change my point of view in either case.

dick

I like the idea of a general purpose reason. In my case the umber of ways approaches infinity. I don't trust her now, I didn't trust either of them before 1992 and I have seen no reason to change my point of view in either case.

dick

I like the idea of a general purpose reason. In my case the umber of ways approaches infinity. I don't trust her now, I didn't trust either of them before 1992 and I have seen no reason to change my point of view in either case.

Ralph L

dick manages a triple penetration.
Sorry, couldn't resist.

Elliott

The debate should begin shortly. I'm rooting for lots of stumbling.

Elliott

Wolf Blitzer tells us we'll have questions from undecided voters. They are bringing the candidates onto the stage one at a time.

Ann

Thanks for doing this Elliott. Great pick for the debate site, by the way. :)

Elliott

Enter Hillary: "Hello, Wolf. How are you? Good to see you."

The photographers are snapping away and CNN goes to its analysts. Whose idea was this intro?

Elliott

Thanks, Ann. I thought it appropriate.

hit and run

Three cheers for Elliott!!!!

Plus 2 more!!!

Times 2!!!!

Squared!!!

ONE HUNDRED CHEERS FOR ELLIOTT!!!!

Elliott

Now Wolf is going over the rules. First hour questions will be from John Roberts and Campbell Brown.

CB Q1: Hillary wasn't at best. Opponent says. Politics of parsing.

Hillary: Asbestos pantsuit. People have known where I've stood for 35 years on all kinds of issues. I've got specific proposals. It's an important elections and we need a president who's tested and ready to lead. I'll leave it to American people.

Wolf: Obama says Hillary running standard campaign.

Obama: Americans want straight answers to tough questions, which he haven't gotten from Senator Clinton, whose political skills I admire. Two weeks for straight answer on licenses for illegals. Disagreements on social security. People feel Washington isn't listening to them. We need to listen.

Clinton: Obama talks about stepping up. But he doesn't support universal health care, his plan leaves out 15 million. My plan covers everyone. I've been fighting on this for many years. I'll fight the Republicans. I'm tested and ready to lead.

Obama: I provide universal health care. People can't afford health care. That's the problem, not that it's not mandated.

Clinton: Most important thing is to level with the American people (gag). Obama doesn't cover everyone. Everyone will be able to afford health care.

Obama: She wants to mandate coverage, but she isn't garnishing wages. Not enforcing this mandate. Americans shouldn't be forced, they'll buy it if it's affordable.

Edwards: Nobody on stage is perfect. Can we have President who can restore trust? Questions to be asked of all of us. Clinton says end war but keep combat troops. She's voted with Bush-Cheney. She says she won't change social security cap in one venue and says she will in another. She says she'll change corrupt Washington.

Clinton: I respect all of my colleagues on this stage. We're trying to nominate best to win. I don't mind hits on my record, but when people start throwing mud I hope it's accurate and not from Republican playbook. I'm glad Edwards is for universal healthcare now. Need positive agenda for America.

hit and run

I do love Biden.

I mean, comparatively.

We are talking about dems.

Porchlight

This is pretty lively - the crowd is into it (so far).

Obama and Hillary are standing next to each other and his posture during that first exchange was interesting - he turned almost fully toward her and sort of stared down at her while she answered. I wonder if she'll complain she found him "menacing."

hit and run

"Hell no I wouldn't support any of these guys" --Biden

Joking of course.

I love Biden.

Elliott

Biden: American people don't care about what's going on up here tonight. Worried about things in their own lives, including whether their sons in the national guard will be killed in Iraq. About action, not experience nor change. Who will end war, who will fix Pakistan and Russia. I've got the experience, passed crime bill, violence against women bill.

JR Q2: Clinton says legitimate to take hits on record but Edwards has changed position (Yucca mountain, Iraq war). Why is it unfair for her to change?

Edwards: Fair to change based on new info. Wrong to say two different things at same time. The question is will America be fine, not who won the debate. 37 million live in poverty, 47 million without health insurance. Who do you believe will take on this corrupt system. This is about what America needs to be.

Blitzer: Dodd says Edwards has changed.

Dodd: Job is to unite party and attract independents to win both branches of government. Shrillness to debate but most Americans just want people who can get the job done. When a campaign is about who's angrier Americans tune out.

Richardson: By the way, I'm Bill Richardson. I'm the governor of New Mexico. Edwards wants class war, Obama wants a generational war, Clinton wants to continue war, I want to give peace a chance. Do our plans resolve the real problems affecting America (jobs, health care, energy). Let's debate the issues and be positive.

Blitzer: Will you support Democratic nominee?

Edwards: Is that a planted question. Yes.

Kucinich: Only if they oppose war as an instrument of policy.

Biden: Hell, no. I wouldn't support any of these guys.

Everyone yes.

CR Q2: Benefits for illegals.

Obama: Bush has done nothing to control problem. Americans justified in being frustrated. Illegals exploited. Comprehensive reform. Border security. Go after employers. Get people out of the shadows, learning English, and to the back of the line so they don't get an advantage.

Blitzer: Support licenses?

Obama: Voted to require illegals to have licenses in Illinois. Problem isn't drivers licenses. Undocumented workers don't come here to drive. Let's solve problem Bush administration has done nothing about.

Blitzer: Support without comprehensive reform?

Obama: I'm not proposing licenses. (Blitzer slams for equivocation).

Edwards: No. Anyone on path should have license.

Dodd: No. Coming here illegally causes serious problems and makes America more attractive.

Obama: Yes.

Clinton: No.

Kucinich: Take issue with "illegal immigrants." They're undocumented. No "illegal human beings." Give people path to legalization and don't criminalize.

Richardson: Yes. I did it. Congress failed, in addition to President. LE told me it's a matter of public safety. (11% of New Mexico drivers are uninsured now according to Richardson). Comprehensive reform.

Biden: No.

Soylent Red

Seventy Million Ways to Hate Hillary.

The problem is all inside our heads
It seems to me
The answer is not related
To her biology
Hilly will make it a bigger struggle
To be free

There must be fifty ways
To hate Hillary

But since it’s really not my habit
To be rude
And since she might send out
Some big pipehitting dude
I’ll just restrain myself
While writing this etude.

There must be fifty ways
To hate Hillary

Fifty ways to hate Hillary

CHORUS:
She’s a political hack, Jack
She’s not tough on Iran, Stan
She can’t hang with the boys, Roy
And she’s lying to me
I can’t figure the fuss, Gus
You don’t need to discuss much
She’s dumb as a tree, Lee
And she’s ly-ing tooo me.

hit and run

The most minor of points....and understand I haven't watched all the debates...but....

I miss Gravel.

Porchlight

Soylent, good work. I agree with all of that, only she ain't dumb. I wish she were.

Biden is good value. I'll be sad when he isn't on the debate stage anymore.

hit and run

I must also say, watching Silky Breck Pony Girl, that Rabid Gerbil is an unexpected but not unwanted and certainly not unwarranted addition to his list of names.

It probably won't stick, just as Pink Sapphire did not stick.

But it could, and be as accurate as any other name.

hit and run

Do NOT watch Hillary's forehead when she talks. It doesn't move. Unless she REALLY raises her eyebrows.

But don't look at that.

You might miss her hokem.

Elliott

JRQ2: Should good teachers get more money?

Dodd: If define excel, by having students do well in good schools in good neighborhoods I'm against it. Education is the most important issue, need best educated generation ever. Should spend more money on education at federal level. NCLB is a disaster and needs reform. I started children's caucus. Early screening legislation. One quarter of population, one hundred percent of our future. Need a debate on education alone.

Blitzer: Disagreements with unions, Dennis?

Kucinich: Union movement essential to upholding human rights. Renegotiating trade deals will improve working standards for workers in all countries. Only candidate from the working class. Don't want to drill in Alaska, unlike Teamsters.

Richardson: I want to be the education president. $40,000 minimum wage for teachers. Pre-school for everyone. Full day kindergarten. Better science, arts education. Help reduce burden of student loans (national service scheme).

Blitzer: Merit pay, Senator Clinton?

Clinton: I support school based merit pay. Need to get teachers to go into under-served rural and urban areas. Students each year have multiple teachers. Weed out the teachers who are doing a bad job. Our education system has served us well but need to re-imagine it in 21st century. Need to figure this out with teachers at the table.

Biden: My wife, the teacher, earned two master's degrees. Who decides on merit. More continuing education, more after school participation. Salaries for teachers lower here than in other countries. 30 billion dollar plan.

CBQ3: Pakistan.

Biden: I spoke to Musharraf and Bhutto before the president did. I told him to take off his uniform. I have a detailed plan on Iraq. Increase economic aid. (I got interrupted so I didn't get it all).

Blitzer: Cut off military aid to Pakistan? Bhutto says that might undermine US national security. Can it get worse?

Richardson: We forgot our principles. We said security is more important than human rights. I would make aid conditional on restoration of constitution, elections, supreme court. Better job rooting out terrorists. Islamic parties get 15% of the vote. Moderate forces can win.

Blitzer: Human rights more important than American national security at times?

Richardson: Yes. Show world it's not just about what Halliburton wants in Iraq.

Edwards: Control extremists in northwest Pakistan. Elections. Control nuclear weapons. Ad hoc policy on dealing with nuclear weapons will not work long term. Rid the world of nuclear weapons.

Obama: Human rights and national security complementary, not contradictory. Democracy in Pakistan will strengthen America's fight against terrorism. I will ensure that nukes don't fall into hands of extremists. Shouldn't prop-up tyrants.

Dodd: Bush is telling Turks not to invade, and Musharraf to restore constitution. How ironic! National security more important than human rights. President uphold constitution. Extremists would win. Shouldn't condition aid.

Clinton: Agrees with Dodd that most important thing is to protect and defend US. Having democratic societies helps US. But, Bush has failed in Pakistan and we're all suffering. White House didn't send the high level envoy I wanted earlier this year.

RichatUF

The Kook spoke-our problems in Pakistan started after the Iraq War. Riight-do the democrats think we are idiots [maybe drunk]?

hit and run

Do not compare Obama's ears vs Kucinich's ears.

For the love of all that is good and decent, do NOT miss out on the claptrap.

Soylent Red

Holy smokes...

Is Dennis Kucinich a Jim Henson creation?

hit and run

Rich:
[maybe drunk]?


Maybe? MAYBE?

Are you questioning my drunkeness????

Listen. There are lines that should not be crossed. It is a thin, but well-defined line.

Tread carefully.

Elliott

JRQ3: Is troop increase bringing security to Iraq?

Richardson: One American death is too much. Surge isn't working. 65% of Iraqi's say it's okay to shoot an American soldier. Physical and mental wounds for our troops. We need to get political compromise. Arab-Muslim peacekeeping force. Donor conference. $500 billion on war should have been used here in America.

Blitzer: Is surge working?

Kucinich: Occupation is fueling the insurgency. Bring troops home now. Shouldn't give Bush more money. Our aggression against Iraq is destabilizing Islamic countries like Pakistan.

Obama: There is no doubt that more troops in Iraq are doing a magnificent job and succeeding in certain neighborhoods. But, no political solution so we're failing. Withdraw and talk to our enemies like Syria and Iran. 3-4 tours of duties, highest casualty levels in both Iraq and Afghanistan this year. I'll end it.

CBQ4: Chinese toys. Are people who voted trade agreements culpable?

Kucinich: Yes. Same with Iraq, Yucca mountain. China doesn't have unions, workers rights. Edwards voted for China trade. A trial lawyer should have known better.

Edwards; America's trade policy has been a complete disaster. Powerful, corporate interests have taken over the government. Good example is the failure to pass universal healthcare in
'93, while NAFTA passed. Don't replace corporate Republicans with corporate Democrats. Shouldn't allow China to operate unfettered. Hold them to WTO obligations.

Blitzer: NAFTA debates. Was Ross Perot right?

Clinton: All I can remember from is the charts. All that is a vague memory. Need sensible trade policy. Giving worker and consumers rights around the world. Need third party investigatory agency in China.

Blitzer: NAFTA mistake?

Clinton: Mistake to the extent that it didn't work out as we had hoped. "Trade Timeout" as President and enforce labor and environmental obligations.

Dood: Global economy, need to expand markets. Should have had moratorium on Chinese trade.

Obama: Vote for trade agreement with Peru since it has labor and environmental agreements. Opposed to CAFTA. Japan has food inspectors in China. Why doesn't US do that? Should have reviewed China's WTO membership every year.

Biden: President won't enforce the law. We have power under the WTO agreement.

hit and run

Soylent:
Is Dennis Kucinich a Jim Henson creation?


Oh, you are BEGGING for it....

B-E-G-G-I-N-G

Jane

Okay, I'm back. what did I miss? Can I join in?

Rick Ballard

"Is Dennis Kucinich a Jim Henson creation?"

Henson's work was much more realistic. A quick recall of Kermit and Miss Piggy squelches that question.

Great lyrics.

clarice

Hi-Jane--It started with a kickline or something! What color is Hillary wearing tonight?

hit and run

From the Elliott liveblog:
Blitzer: NAFTA debates. Was Ross Perot right?

I. Have. Been. Vindicated.

More ears to compare!!!!!

hit and run

Hit mute. That's what I did.


Jane

Oh now Hillary is competing in the old boys club, and we go into the triangulation while Hillary smiles. Hillary demands she is not playing at anything. She is playing at EVERYTHING. Absolutely EVERYTHING. And she feels comfortable in the kitchen and she can laugh at everything and they are so diverse and it's all to her credit, and the cheers are deafening.

What did you mean when you referred to the "boys club"

From time to time there have been some impediments. She's the best qualified and the audience is completely stacked with Hillary supporters. Gross.

Jane

Is Hillary playing the gender card?

Gawd yes, but the candidates won't admit that because they never ever ever say anything that is true.

Edwards is not part of the system.

My gawd is this audience stacked with Hillary supporters. Who did Bill pardon to get that?

Elliott

JRQ4: Where store nuclear waste?

Obama: Not fair to send it to Nevade, which isn't producing it. Need to store it with sound science. Nuclear power should be part of energy mix. Cap greenhouse gasses. Fine polluters, clean coal technology.

Blitzer asks where he should store it given technology isn't where Obama is hoping it will be yet. Obama says Blitzer is too negative with all his questions about "assuming this can't happen." Obama is running for President because he believes we can do things.

Richardson: Future is renewable. Energy revolution to shift to renewable sources. Sacrifice from American people.

CBQ5: Are you exploiting gender, Senator Clinton.

Clinton: Not trying to play gender card, trying to play winning card. Attacked because I'm ahead. If can't stand heat, get out of kitchen. I like it in the kitchen. Look how diverse our field is. I'm proud to be running to be first female president. Impediments for women, from time to time. Has been progress. Not running because I'm a woman, but I am inspiring people.

Edwards; Every candidate should be held to the same standard. Good people running, we need a strong candidate. There are differences and voters are entitled to know what they are. Need to give better lives to our children. Clinton is the candidate of the lobbyists.

Up next: Voter questions.

Jane

Clarice,

I think she is in gold and black checks. I really haven;t looked because I just had dinner.

Ann

Jane,

How did auntie like the boyfriend?

You didn't miss much, except the best part of the debate is Soylent Red and Hit are here!

Elliott

Hit and Run:

I repeat, kalliplokamos.

Jane

Kucinich and Dodd embrace. What's that about?

Jane

The boyfriend is still here and really quite fabulous. Best one so far. Long story.

clarice

NRO says Blitzer's the loser. The Onion sends out an article called "Americans Announce They're Dropping Out Of Presidential Race,"

hit and run

Anyone ever play FMK?

I mean, there's a whole stage-full of candidates.

If you have to ask, don't.

RichatUF

Hit & Run-

Listen. There are lines that should not be crossed. It is a thin, but well-defined line.

Tread carefully.

I got started early-drinking that is...

Soylent Red

WTF? Did they just pull this woman out of the pub? She sounds hammered.

BTW, just keep quiet you. Hush up.

Soylent Red

WTF? Did they just pull this woman out of the pub? She sounds hammered.

BTW, just keep quiet you. Hush up.

Jane

oooh a standing ovation for a troop who has served 3 tours on a day when the congress cut off funding for the troops, and his mother wants a committment that we will not go into Iran.

Biden - don't ratchett up the winds of war. Oh gee. we have convinced the muslim world this is a war against Muslims and it ratchet up oil prices. The president should be impeached if he takes us to war in Iran.

Clinton voted for the resolution. The troop does not have to worry about going to Iran despite her vote, but he should worry about the president. No legal authority. we need agressive diplomacy. No diplomatic relations. I would negotiate. I would not ask them to give up their nuclear power and would charam them. And when they attack us 3 hours after I am elected it will be Bush's fault. (I made that last part up)

Edwards is proud of the troop and his mom. We must stop Bush Cheney and the neo-cons (which he can't even pronounce). Iran is not a proliferator of WMD. We have seen how this plays out.

Obama - the poor mama. The vote on the Iraninan revolutionary guard was bad bad bad. It gives Bush an excuse to perpetuate the failed strategy in Iraq. We have to end the war in Iraq. That is how you are a strong president.

Obama - you missed that vote. I know. I was running for president.

Elliott

Questions from the undecided voters.

First from a woman whose son has served three tours of duty in Iraq. Mom and son are worried about being deployed to Iran. How will show leadership and stop rush to war?

Biden: Slow the drumbeat. Shouldn't have declared Quds force terrorists. Now Muslim world thinks it's a war on Islam. Oil's higher. Iran's government consolidated power. Impeachment if Bush goes to war.

Clinton: No basis to fear going to Iran based on resolution. Justified fear about the President. President has let situation get worse because they refuse to engage in diplomacy. I'll talk to them. Should sanction Quds though. Important to go to table with carrots and sticks.

Edwards: Stop Bush, Cheney, and neocons. Could have done this on the Quds resolution. Bush will probably use it as a pretext.

Obama: Resolution said maintain force level in Iraq to contain Iran. Mistake. End war in Iraq. Change mindset. Bold diplomacy. I'll meet with our enemies. That's what strong countries do. Shouldn't increase troops in Iraq when eye is on Iran.

Elliott

Why do private contractors make more than my son in Iraq?

Richardson: Get rid of all the contractors along with all residual forces within a year. Reform military. War in Iraq has hurt military. More divisions, still volunteer though. More money, benefits. "Heroes health-card". More emphasis on mental health.

clarice

What unadulterated pap and drivel..No wonder young people responded they'd sell their votes for IPods.

hit and run

Dude. Are there no 12 year olds to ask a question of these dems available.

WTF?

Jane

My son is in Iraq and he is not making enough money. (I like that question)

Private contractors make more. Obama would pull them all out. Is that practical. Richardson would get them all out in a year. he would reform the military (Clitnon had nothing to do with that.) He would pour money into the military and give them a heroes health card so they could get health care anywhere, particularly mental health.

Sheesh.

Re; Racial profiling. He's a muslin maybe (i'm racially profiling) How will you fix that.

Edwards; The patriot act has been abused and he will stop the racial profiling, and the illegal profiling; no rendition, and he's amazed because he will stop all torture.

Kucinich voted against the patriot act because he read it.

Do those who voted for the patriot have blame. The muslim is owed an apology. Of course we would never ask Muslims to come out and support american ideals because it has to be in reverse. Blah blah blah Kucinich wants to impeach.

Elliott

Khalid Khan: I've been profiled!

Edwards: Change Patriot Act. No profiling when I'm President. No illegally spying on Americans, no Gitmo, no secret prisons, no rendition, no torture. Restore America's image.

Kucinich: I voted against the Patriot Act because I read it. This voter deserves an apology. Lots of flip-floppers on this stage. Just imagine a POTUS whose right the first time. Time for impeachment.

Biden: Nothing in Patriot Act allows profiling. Profiling is illegal. Voted against funding Gitmo. Wanted to close it 3 years ago.

hit and run

Clarice:
What unadulterated pap and drivel


Oh, it's adulterous.

RichatUF

Jane-

Re; Racial profiling. He's a muslin maybe (i'm racially profiling) How will you fix that.

I'm sure "racial profiling" would have done some good regarding Nada Prouty-

centralcal

H&R: I can only reiterate your question,

WTF?

Jane

Biden: The patriot act does not allow profiling. I voted against closing down GITMo, but it's not about who was right then.

Really? You could have fooled me.

Question: Lou Dobbs is bad because he hates mexicans and should we slow the immigrants.

Richardson. It's not my fault and I'm the only person who knows anything about anything. Dick Cheney's approval rating is better than COngress. I declared a border emergency and I'm against the fence. Secure the border with cops, punish hirers of illegals. Foreign policy - tell mexico to come up wiht jobs then legalize all of them.

RichatUF

Are the fighhts against terrorism and illegal immigration related?

No of course not-the 9/11 attackers came to the country legally, some only had expired visas on that day.

Elliott

Lou Dobbs is stoking populist outrage on immigration. AS MANY PEOPLE KNOW NO TERRORIST HAS COME FROM OUR SOUTHERN BORDER (yes I'm angry now, I hope someone calls him on it, I missed the rest of his question, probably about the fence).

Richardson: I've dealt with border problems, don't demonize immigrants, fence won't get built. Tell Mexico to give jobs to it's people. Legalization plan. Learning English, paying back taxes.

Dodd: In Spanish, peace core in Dominican Republic. Not fence across whole border. We don't have to give up rights to preserve our security.

Soylent Red

skinny muppet-man likes impeachment. Fat, drunken Army mom likes impeachment.

Dude speaks in Spanish about the poor, poor illegal immigrants. Senator is quick to show off how simpatico he is.

Granny simultaneously laments deficit and her eight grandchildren not getting their handouts.

Who needs Hollywood writers?

RichatUF

...blah, blah, blah...retiring and the country is facing a record deficit [not true]...blah, blah, blah...are you going to guarantee Social Security, Medicare, etc

Obama: small adjustment...raise the cap from 97k to 46M (Warren Buffett), universal health care...

I need a drink...oh, look...I already have one...brb

Soylent Red

CRISIS! CRISIS! CRISIS!

hit and run

Come on. If all the republican neocons are making so much damn money, any democrat who has any sense will become a republican neocon.

Join us. We're screwing everyone else!

Jane

Dodd tries out his spanish and announces he was in the Peace corps in the Dominican republic.

It's a false choice. we don't have to give up rights to be safer.

A casino worker She has 8 grandchildren. She is a baby boomer - gawd I don't look that old. She has a pension but others don't. how will you make sure SS lasts forever?

Obama - you do a great job. The problem is George Bush and if we weren't in Iraq we could pay for some baby boomers. I've been specific but i can't quite tell you how. Make warren Buffet pay on his whole income and the problem is solved. Re: medicare: premiums up 78 % under Bush. we need universal health care.

Clinton - you refuse to take a hard position on raising taxes on those who make more than 97k.

I am for fiscal responsibiliyt. Of course I won't define that. We were solving social security and then came george Bush. Oh you lie you lie. Then we need a commission. So she hasn't said she would raise the cap.

Obama says that only 6% of americans make more than 97k and he accuses her of pplaying with numbers and the audience turns on him because she has it stacked.

Clitnon is allowed to respond and says it is a tax increase. And some would find that burdensome. gawd who is she pandering to now? she attacks Obama. blah blah blah

Elliott

How preserve social security and medicare?

Obama: Bush raided trust fund to pay for war! Need to end war, have some fiscal discipline. Adjust cap on payroll tax. Medicare tougher, with healthcare premiums going up 78% since Bush took office.

Clinton: Back to fiscal responsibility. Social security was going to be solvent, thanks to surpluses, to 2055. Then have bipartisan solution. Doesn't think there should be 1 trillion dollar tax increase on middle class (social security tax cap). Should be able to negotiate drug costs.

Obama: Only 6% of American's make more than $97,000 a year. That's not the middle class.

Clinton: There are people I represent who would find that burdensome. Firefighters. Obama wants a bipartisan commission, as I've been suggesting all along. It worked in 1983.

Soylent Red

Join us. We're screwing everyone else!

I'd like to see that in eight-foot letters across the stage at the Republican Convention.

Everybody wants to be a winner...

Elliott

Soylent,

Yes that was over the top. However, the view that no terrorists have come across that US-Mexican border seems to be rather widely held. I'll dig up the link to the San Antonio paper's series from last year that blasts that view out of the water after the debate. Rich is correct though that many terrorists have had no problems coming legally.

clarice

Give them all top secret jobs in the CIA and FBI, I say. Diversity trumps national security.

hit and run

Soylent:
Who needs Hollywood writers?

Well, listen. When you go off to basic training, and then officers school, I admit....I fall into the temptation of embracing Hollywood writers.

When you are around, I don't need anything else. But in your absence, I am like a ship adrift at sea with a torn sail.

I mean, I know, defending our nation is much more important than my entertainment.

But I would be less than honest if I did not tell you that your absence means I'm watching Grey's Anatomy and Boston Legal.

If you can sleep at night knowing that, then God Bless You.

clarice

Fridays will never be the same around here without Soylent.

Jane

back from commerical and Dodd is in mid sentence. Gee that's not good. Something about the Court. Litmus test. Roe is the litmus test.

Would every candidate insist on abortion rights.

Biden - has provided over more supreme court justices than anyone on the planet - huh?

He wants someone who has lived life and he would appoint a women and they have to understrand the constuitution has a right to privacy in it. huh?

Richardsons criteria is diversity and he'd ask if they supported a right to privacy, civil rights and something about education - oh gawd.

Kucinich would have a litmus test. he will heal. and he tells you all the healing things he will do.

Clitnon: They have to share view about privacy and have to believe my view is embedded in the constitution. george Bush doesn't understand how the consutution works.

obama: I taught consitutional law and the ct has to protect the outsider. I want outsiders.

Edwards would insist they recognize a right to privacy and recognize Roe and understnad that I was poor growing up.

Elliott

Supreme Court appointments.

Dodd: Life experience. Ability to be fair and just. Don't want to apply litmus tests. (I think he then said he doesn't want someone who would be likely to overturn Roe v. Wade.)

Biden: I've voted on more Supreme Court justices than anyone. Too many ideologues and professors on bench. I'll appoint a woman. Won't appoint anyone who doesn't believe 14th amendment provides right to privacy.

Richardson and Kucinich say they'll put someone on the court who will uphold Roe v. Wade. Kucinich adds there'll be less abortion with a healer in the White House.

Clinton: Nominee would have to share my views on privacy, which is embedded in our constitution. George Bush doesn't understand way our government should work.

Obama: I'd appoint someone who believes in right to privacy. Court is supposed to protect the vulnerable and those without clout.

Edwards: Nominee would need to recognize right to privacy and that Roe v. Wade is settled law. Being from the south, I know how important it is to have federal judges who will make courageous decisions.

Soylent Red

Oh my God...

Democrats stand for "leaving people alone" now.

Excuse me while I go to the window and check to see if the earth is still turning...

Elliott

What will you do in the Middle East, which doesn't seem to be getting better, when half the country will probably disagree with you?

Obama: I can unite country better than Hillary Clinton. Convene continuous advisory meeting, not just with Democrats, but also with Republicans. Don't have politics stops at water's edge anymore. I'll say America is back and ready to lead. Building non-religious schools in Middle East. Talk to enemies in addition to friends.

Clinton: Running to be president of whole country. I reached out to everyone when I ran for Senate. We can listen to one another, find common ground and work together, even though we will still have disagreements. Start acting like Americans again to solve our problem.

Biden: I have the respect of my Republican colleagues. Republicans would be in my administration. Most Republicans and Independents think our foreign policy is a disaster. I'll be able to bring them along with my foreign policy. They're afraid to take on Bush.

Richardson: Diplomacy would be cornerstone of my foreign policy. I've brought people together throughout my career. Need Middle East envoy, two state solution, talk to Syria and Iran. The solution is called leadership and diplomacy.

Jane

We have a divided electorate, how will you unite everyone. (my question)

Obama - I can do it better than Hillary. I would convene a continuous advisory meeting on national security and Chuck hagel is a good republican who believes that our difference end at the water's edge, huh?

Clitnon: you are too polarizing. What do you say. I am running to be presidnent of the entire united states. You have to look to find common ground, but there will be differences. We can begin to listen to one another under my leadership. Not bloody likely.

Biden: I have respect. I would include republicans. Most republicans think our foreign poolicy is a shamble but I've already brought them along, they love me so they agree with us but they are afraid of Bush.

Richardson: Diplomacy and negotiaton are my cornerstones. I bring people together.

Hillary: Diamonds or pearls?

end of debate.

I learned nothing!!!!!

Elliott

Diamonds or pearls.

Clinton: I know sometimes I'm accused of not being able to make up my mind. I want both.

So it ends.

centralcal

What a sad, sorry state our country is in, if ANY of these candidates prevail and win the election for President of the United States of America.

clarice

Dan Riehl notes that the question from the mother whose son served 3 tours is probably planted. We've heard of her before:
"Down the block, a similarly sized group of counter-demonstrators gathered. The local anti-war activists and veterans said they supported Reid.

"My son was in Iraq three times," said Catherine Jackson of Las Vegas. "I thank God he's home now. Enough is enough. We need to bring our troops home."
"
http://www.lvrj.com/news/7571172.html

Rick Ballard

Did any Democratic candidate mention even one substantive achievement accomplished since first drawing breath?

Maybe third grade spelling bee runnerup?

hit and run

Whoops....Bunco's over. Gotta go. C-ya.

Gmax -- if you check in before you leave..........I'm coming after you gonna try and find you tomorrow at the game.

It is supposed to be pretty cold...so we'll see how long the kids last.

Jane

That same woman was shown on camera standing to applaud the idea of impeachment.

Jane

Elliott,

Nice job. It was hard to take it seriously and apparently I missed all the fireworks. What happened?

centralcal

Oh, Clarice! Recycling? This is just too much! How pathetic can these people be?

Tell me again, how with all of our flaws, the Conservatives are in trouble? I just cannot believe that we are in that much trouble.

Perhaps I am naive and a pollyanna.

RichatUF

centralcal-

I just cannot believe that we are in that much trouble. Perhaps I am naive and a pollyanna

Washington 2004. Coming to a state near you.

Elliott

Jane,

Thanks. There was a bit of a dust-up between Clinton and Obama early on (Obama was just getting going when a heckler interrupted things for 10-15 seconds), but the social security clash was probably better. We'll see whether Obama can make anything out of the social security taxes issue.

Over at Hugh Hewitt, I found an excerpt from the San Antonio Express series on people from "countries of interest" crossing illegally into the U.S.:

Other federal counterterrorism authorities, however, say they have connected some border jumpers to terrorism. Among them was a South African woman of Middle Eastern descent whose July 2004 arrest at the McAllen airport with wet clothes, thousands in cash and a mutilated passport made international headlines.

Farida Goolam Ahmed eventually was charged with a simple illegal entry offense and quietly deported, but key documents remain sealed. A Dec. 9, 2004, U.S. Border and Transportation Security intelligence summary, accidentally released on the Internet, states that Ahmed was "linked to specific terrorist activities."

Government officials familiar with the case now confirm Ahmed was a smuggler based in Johannesburg, South Africa, who specialized in moving special-interest immigrants into the United States along a United Arab Emirates-London-Mexico City-McAllen pipeline.

Houston-based federal prosecutor Abe Martinez, chief of the Southern District of Texas national security section in the U.S. attorney's office, was asked if Ahmed or anyone she smuggled might have been involved in terrorism.

"Were they linked to any terrorism organizations?" Martinez said. "I would have to say yes."

The questioner at the debate stated no terrorist has crossed the southern border and none of the candidates challenged him. If the Democrats want to argue that this isn't the best way for terrorists to infiltrate people and materials into the United States that's would be fine.

However, that's not what they are doing. Would Wolf Blitzer let a questioner or candidate at a Republican debate go unchallenged if he asserted that criticism of Bush on Iraq and WMDs was unjustified since Saddam Hussein always intended to produce nuclear weapons?

clarice

Via instapundit:"Last word goes to Stephen Green: "Lots of fireworks, yet still the worst debate I've seen all season. The blame rests squarely with CNN. They ran a bad debate on a bad stage with stupid questions from insipid people in a format that was neither fish nor fowl but spoiled meat nonetheless. Horrible, even by the low standards set by Fox News and MSNBC. Horrible, horrible." Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. I haven't seen all the debates, but of the ones I've seen this was far and away the worst."

glasater

Yes, Rich--I'm very concerned that Hilliary will steal the next election. And things have not changed here in Washington State as far as I can tell/read. Dino Rossi is going to run once again for governor and hope springs eternal.

sophy

We all love game, if you want to play it, please cheap habbo credits and join us.

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