And I Hear The Traffic In Baghdad Is A Quagmire...

The NY Times shocks us with the news that Iraq is corrupt.  Well, that settles it - if American auditors and comptrollers went into Iraq with no plan for winning the peace, and if we can't hope to bring about a reconciliation of the national accounts, it is time to withdraw.

MORE:  Don Surber notes that if you've lost the car washes, you've lost everything.

John Quiggin at Crooked Timber makes the point that the coalition encouraged this (as if the UN sanctions did not) and closes sensibly:

The good news in the NY Times report is that the civil war in Iraq, while still bloody has abated to the point that a report like this is worth paying attention to.  Meanwhile, in Afghanistan, things are getting worse. More on this later, but one general lesson is that war is unpredictable and should always be a last resort. All wars come to an end, but that doesn’t bring the dead back to life, or turn a tragedy into a triumph.

And Joe Klein, apparently desperate to regain some lefty cred after his FISA lashing, Keeps Despair Alive:

Two points: Obviously, there is absolutely nothing the U.S. military presence can do about this. And less obviously, there is very little the Iraqis can do about this, either....

This is another reason why Bush's "Freedom Agenda" has always sounded so foolish in the region. It is also another reason to begin the troop withdrawals now.

We went in with too few auditors, but maybe it is not too late for an international Coalition of the Billing to sort this out.  By the hour.

Well, even if Mr. Klein is right and a relatively honest democratic government is not a realistic goal for Iraq, it hardly follows that immediate US withdrawal is the only logical alternative.  Perhaps we can reasonably aspire to a stable but corrupt government where the Sunnis and Shiites bribe each other rather than shoot each other.  And the good news is, Mr. Klein can still declare this to be a defeat!

Comments

[kim]

You go into an audit with the figures you have, not the figures you want.
======================================

[Charlie (Colorado)]

That's right: a corrupt government, politicians and others taking bribes, inefficiency and waste --- get the troops out of Louisiana NOW!

[Dagpotter]

Corruption!?! Hey, at least two people in their tax department didn't steal $40 M over 7 years like in Washington DC.

[Dagpotter]

Corruption!?! Hey, at least two people in their tax department didn't steal $40 M over 7 years like in Washington DC.

[SteveMG]

It's odd (well, not really) that we're not hearing the typical lefty "Who are we to judge other cultures or countries when we have...[an unjustly applied death penalty, 40 million with no health insurance, 20 million starving children, blah blah blah]...?"

Of course, that response is only used against our enemies, not our allies. No standard for adversaries; a high one for our friends.

As the saying goes, "It may be unwise to be an enemy of the US, but it's positively deadly to be our friend."

SMG

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

If Iraq ended up looking like Turkey...or even Egypt or Jordan, that would be an improvement over Saddam.

[Other Tom]

It is a blissful pleasure to watch fools like Klein--and the New York Times--diminishing themselves.

[Semanticleo]

"It is also another reason to begin the troop withdrawals now."

Who has greater credibility, Scott Beauchamp or Joe Klein. I say it's a toss up.

No one is calling for immediate withdrawal, although I'm sure someone will name some names forgetting we're talking credibility.

[Other Tom]

Concerning who's calling for immeidate withdrawal now, that's a good question, Cleo. What's really fun is to list those who were calling for it a year ago, but who are now more or less on the victory bandwagon. Only W and most Republicans maintained their integrity and their courage through the tough times.

And what, pray tell, is Jack Murtha calling for? And what is he telling us was his position on the Surge? Very foggy...

[sbw]

Re: Keeping dispair alive

Notice that it's always about whether "we" are "winning" or "losing"; never about what's worth reaching for.

[sbw]

I just had a dreadful thought. It would be just like Time Magazine to replace TM as "Time's Man/Woman/Person/Thing of the Year" with the large carbon footprinted anti-scientific perpetrator of Global Warmening.

[Semanticleo]

"Concerning who's calling for immeidate withdrawal now,'

Ah yes, that slippery little devil called 'semantics' rears it's horny little head.

When you say 'withdraw now' and mean 'begin withdrawing troops now', it's similar to the difference between a lightning bug, and....
lightning.

Since many oppose any appearance of surrender by withdrawing troops (The Marines will shortly begin re-deploying to Afghanistan, btw) in any measurable way,
an attempt is made, by some, to suggest that those who favor relief or redeployment for Armed Services want IMMEDIATE evacuation of all troops YESTERDAY.

As for the surge and Murtha, I suspect he is still in favor of GRADUAL redeployment and his fogginess is the conflation attempted to parallel success with the surge as progress on the domestic political front, which is abysmal and will remain so for decades.

Hope that's clear.

On January 12, sixteen Democrats in the House of Representatives sent a letter to President Bush calling on him to begin the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. (The letter and list of signers is included below.)

This initiative is a clear reflection of the breadth of antiwar sentiment across the country, and a sign that the demand to bring the troops home now is gaining more and more mainstream support. The Congressional letter comes at a pivotal moment when, according to the New York Times (January 10), discussions of how the U.S. might disengage from Iraq are "bubbling up in Congress, in the Pentagon and some days even in the White House."

The grassroots antiwar movement can make a real difference right now, if we act quickly and decisively. See below for details on action steps you can take today.

Every day brings news of more defections from Bush's "stay the course" policy:

• North Carolina Republican Rep. Howard Coble, head of the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, declared January 8 that "it's time for the U.S. to consider withdrawing." Noting a shift in public opinion in his largely conservative district, Coble's office announced that "letters, phone calls and messages that had been overwhelmingly supportive of the war are now about even."

• Brent Scowcroft, National Security Adviser during Bush's father's presidency, stated January 6 that the situation in Iraq now raised the "fundamental question of whether we should get out now." At the same Washington, D.C. insider event, former National Security Adviser under President Carter, Zbigniew Brzezinski, flatly declared, "I do not think we can stay in Iraq in the fashion we're in now. If it cannot be changed drastically, it should be terminated."

• The government of the Ukraine (which recently elected a "pro-Western" leader) announced it was accelerating the full pullout of all its troops from Iraq.

• The latest U.S. opinion polls indicate that a majority of the U.S. people believe invading Iraq was wrong or not worth the price.

• Mel Gibson, a hero of many conservatives shocked many of his fans after the People's Choice awards January 9 by declaring that he liked Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 911" and exclaimed: "What the hell are we doing in Iraq? No one can explain to me in a reasonable manner that I can accept why we're there, why we went there, and why we're still there."

Now, as the nation honors the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, is the time to re-double our efforts. UFPJ encourages you to make sure that newspapers large and small around the country are deluged with antiwar letters, and that everyone in Washington, D.C. is flooded with antiwar calls, letters and e-mails. Now is the time to call for an end to the war in Iraq and for the troops to be brought home.

The overwhelming majority of the Iraqi people want the U.S. out. The overwhelming majority of the world's people want to the U.S. out. If we can do our part in mobilizing and activating millions of people here, success is within our grasp.

"Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

WHAT YOU CAN DO:

The Congressional letter to George Bush gives us an opportunity to strengthen our grassroots cry for peace and up the pressure on Congress. Sometime in the next month to six weeks the Bush Administration will be asking Congress to approve additional funds for the war in Iraq to the tune of $80 to $100 billion! Now is the time to start
our work
to halt this deadly use of our tax dollars.

1) If you are represented by any of the signers of the letter to Bush be sure to call their office and thank them for this initiative. We've listed their phone numbers after their names below.

2) Ask your member of Congress to send a similar letter to the President and to release it to the media. (Visit http://www.congress.org for contact information.) Ask your member to condition any future funds for Iraq on an explicit commitment to begin withdrawing the troops. Try to set up a meeting with your representative, or their aides. For ideas on how to talk about ending the occupation see the Institute for Policy Studies' "Ending the U.S. War in Iraq: How to Bring the Troops Home and Internationalize the Peace." http://www.ips-dc.org/iraq/bringthetroops.htm

3) Send a letter to editor of your local newspaper - or several papers in your region - voicing the demand to bring the troops home now. Use the media directory at
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/dbq/media/ to find contact information for newspapers in your area.

4) Share this email widely. It is important that people across the country know about this initiative and the growing momentum to bring the troops home now.

5) Begin building for the global day of action to end the war on March 19. The two-year anniversary of the Iraq invasion is approaching, and people all over the world will be taking to the streets to call for the troops to come home now. Start organizing a March 19 action in your community, and list your event at http://www.unitedforpeace.org/events

LETTER TO PRESIDENT BUSH FROM 16 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

January 12, 2005

The Honorable George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, D.C. 20500

Dear Mr. President,

We write to urge you to take immediate steps to begin the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq.

Although the initial invasion of Iraq may have occurred with minimal troop deaths, the subsequent occupation of the country has been anything but successful. Already more than 1,300 American troops have lost their lives since the war began on March 19, 2003. At least 10,000 American troops have been injured as well, and it is impossible to know exactly how many thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians have been killed. Despite the enormity of the war's casualties, the Iraqi insurgency continues to grow stronger with every passing day.

Iraq is no closer to becoming a stable democracy today than it was two years ago, as evidenced in recent weeks by the daily torrent of insurgent attacks on American forces and Iraqi civilian leaders. On January 4th, insurgents assassinated Ali Haidari, the governor of the Iraqi province that includes Baghdad. Just as devastating to the prospect of democracy, on December 30th, al-Jazeera satellite channel reported that all 700 electoral workers in Mosul quit their posts out of fear of being killed. Two weeks later, on January 10th, the entire 13-member electoral commission in the Anbar province, just west of Baghdad, resigned after being threatened by insurgents. If even Iraqi election officials fear for their lives, how can we possibly expect Iraqi citizens to feel safe going to the polls? How can we continue to put our own troops in harm's way, the continued targets for Iraq's thousands of malcontent insurgents?

It has become clear that the existence of more than 130,000 American troops stationed on Iraqi soil is infuriating to the Iraqi people - especially because Saddam Hussein did not possess weapons of mass destruction and did not have a connection to the tragic events of September 11th, 2001 or to the al Qaeda terrorist organization. Indeed, the very presence of Americans in Iraq is a rallying point for dissatisfied people in the Arab world. The events of the last two years have not only intensified the rage of the extremist Muslim terrorists, they have also ignited civil hostilities in Iraq that have
made Americans
and Iraqis substantially less safe. Therefore, by removing our troops from the country, we will remove the main focus of the insurgents' rage.

Again, while it may be logistically difficult to immediately remove every American soldier, we urge you to take immediate action to begin the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq. This is the only way to truly support our troops. Thank you for your consideration of this request.

Sincerely,

Representaives
Lynn Woolsey (CA-06) 202-225-5161
Danny Davis (IL-07) 202-225-5006
Lane Evans (IL-17) 202-225-5905
Sam Farr (CA-17) 202-225-2861
Raul Grijalva (AZ-07) 202-225-2435
Alcee Hastings (FL-23) 202-225-1313
Maurice Hinchey (NY-22) 202-225-6335
Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-02) 202-225-0773
Dennis Kucinich (OH-10) 202-225-5871
Barbara Lee (CA-09) 202-225-2661
John Lewis (GA-05) 202-225-3801
Jim McDermott (WA-07) 202-225-3106
Grace Napolitano (CA-38) 202-225-5256
Major Owens (NY-11) 202-225-6231
Jose Serrano (NY-16) 202-225-4361
Pete Stark (CA-13) 202-225-5065

[Semanticleo]

sorry about the unintended portions of that paste.

[Rick Ballard]

That's OK, stupid. You're just living down to everyone's expectations. Isn't there any traffic nearby in which you might spend some time playing?

[bgates]

Scrolling through that comment - there's 3 seconds I'll never get back. Couldn't help noticing that among the recent developments Cleo cites for growing antiwar sentiment is a statement by Mel Gibson from January 2005. Cleo, while your head is in that position, take a moment and check yourself for polyps, k?

[PeterUK]

Well,that's a scrollover if ever I saw one.

[Semanticleo]

Yeah. 2005.

That's the point.

>idiot>

[Semanticleo]

Yeah. 2005.

That's the point.

>idiot>

[PeterUK]

"Is it a coincidence that the hostage taking took place at a time when a fund raising event for Hillary starring Bill Clinton was canceled because the host attorney Richard Scruggs is under a federal indictment for attempting to bribe a state court judge?"

Will there be a counter invasion to clean up the Democrat party? Or will al Qaueda simply pack up and go home?

[Rick Ballard]

Dear >idiot>,

Congratulations on learning how to sign your posts.

Who says remedial education is a waste of time?

[Semanticleo]

"Who says remedial education is a waste of time?"

Who says Marmalard has no sense of humor?

Self-parody qualifies.....................

[boris]

You should know

[GMax]

Maurice Hinchey, Barbara Lee, Jim McDermott, Pete Stark

HMMM I am detecting a pattern here. Anyone else see it? Yah thats it. Moonbat Progs all to the man. Never met a current admin policy they did not like.

These are your heros? You may be more terminal with the rectal/cranial inversion than your dr. has even let on to you...

[PeterUK]

"Self-parody qualifies....................."

Just like one of those movies where someone says,"The money is in the ......" then keels over.In this case the signal between synapses timed out.

[Rick Ballard]

Jim Miller (always a good read), points to a Politico piece detailing the Copperhead Murtha's shift[y]ing views on the surge.

He (and the Democrat party) must feel as Vallandigham did upon hearing the news of Sherman's brief sojourn in a very warm Atlanta prior to making his trip to Savannah and Columbia.

I find it entertaining to consider that the nouveau Copperheads may be spending an inordinate amount of effort in selecting the proper latter-day McClellan upon which to pin their diminishing hopes.

[Walter]

McMahon:

Lynn Woolsey, Alcee Hastings, Jesse Jackson, Jr., Dennis Kucinich, and Barbara Lee.

Carnac:

Name five people who have yet to change to change my mind* on any issue.

*Well, at least not in favor of the position they advocate.

[Jane]

international Coalition of the Billing

Clearly the phrase of the day!

[Other Tom]

Here's a bulletin (dated October 17) for Cleo concerning her suggestion that the Marines are about to start redeploying to Afghanistan:

"Last week, the Washington Post reported that a bid by the Marine Corps to take responsibility for the primary U.S. military mission in Afghanistan generated a heated debate inside and outside the Pentagon, with some senior officers arguing that the Marines are ideally suited for the Afghan war while others contending that the move would undermine the counterinsurgency strategy there.

"Yesterday, Inside Defense reported that Secretary of Defense Robert Gates has nixed that proposal:

"Defense Secretary Robert Gates today shot down Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway's proposal to shift Marines from Iraq to Afghanistan, which would leave the Army to handle operations in Iraq.
Gates dismissed the idea when asked about it at a Pentagon media briefing.
'I have pretty much literally, up until this point, heard one sentence about it, that they were thinking about it,' he said. 'So I would say that if it happens it will be long after I'm secretary of defense.'"

Any day now, Cleo, any day.

And I seem to recall that Mr. Murtha's suggesstion last year was that we begin an immediate redeployment to Okinawa.

By God, the success of the Surge has made listening to the Democrats more fun that a barrel of monkeys.

[kim]

They seem more like a roomful of monkeys at keyboards.
===================================

[Rick Ballard]

SHERMAN FORCED TO WITHDRAW TO SAVANNAH!

[GFD]

Iraq is turning into money. There will be less military and more non military spending. The non military NGOs, etc. are fighting over the money. Congress won't fund the military because they are already after the money and jobs for the NGOs, etc. Now, Bush is cutting the terror money to States. Dems in congress look dumb because they wanted to control all the non military money, but won't approve the military money because of the non military money and long term Fed jobs that dems want to control. The State Department made them look even more stupid because they won't go and should have listened to the dems who believe they control all federal employment. Rice wouldn't fire those who refused to honor their contract, which is why they are paid so much; go anywhere. Rice looks more dem like every day.

Dems are corrupt, so why blame Iraq?

[Patton]

Semanticleo and the Democrats are just pissed because Bush isn't killing Iraqis with the speed, skill or any where near the numbers they managed to kill them when Clinton was in charge.
If Bush can't even manage a simple genocide of a country of 24 Million, how's he going to manage healthcare??

Clinton could kill 500,000 Iraqi children, declare their deaths worth it, reporters would swoon and he'd have a cigar sodomizing an intern before you could say dysentery, cholera, hepatitis, or typhoid.

[PeterUK]

Would that have been a Cuban cigar?

[clarice]

This is a really find post, TM. I don't know that I can avoid writing a satirical piece on this--how, for example, the party that pays attention to such nonsense controls the gloriously uun-corrupt venues like N.O., Washington, D.C., New Jersey, St Louis. If anyone knows corrupt...Just sayin'

[PeterUK]

Why do the Democrats want to pull out now the Weapons of Mass Corruption have been found?

[hit and run]

From the article:

Abu Ali is a 23-year-old Sunni with a soft middle and a common tale. Identifying himself by only a nickname, which means father of Ali...

[8 paragraphs later]

The details of Abu Ali’s story could not be independently verified, but they fit a pattern of bribes and payroll schemes found in nearly every nook of Iraq’s government

No, of course, it's Iraq, independent verification would be next to impossible. That's why it was limited to 10 paragraphs in an article, and not, say a byline and a multi-part series.

Well, yeah, being in Iraq is one issue -- not having married a fact-checker at the publication is another, I suppose.

[Cecil Turner]

It is also another reason to begin the troop withdrawals now.

Quick, run away before we win. Because, of course, the primary goal of our national security apparatus is weeding out corruption in Iraq. And if that utterly stupid argument isn't persuasive, the liberals have lots more that make no more sense, but all come to the same conclusion. One of 'em must be right. Right?

[JM Hanes]

Don't these people realize that earmarks are a much more efficient, morally superior, way to steal from your central government? Joe Klein is right! Tribal corruption obviously undermines the whole democratic concept of electing representatives to bring home the bacon. Any society which is fundamentally ambivalent about pork should have been crossed off the Freedom Agenda from the get go.

[Patton]

"""The details of Abu Ali’s story could not be independently verified"""

What this means is we couldn't reach Scotty Beauchamp before deadline....

[PeterUK]

Baksheesh has been an ancient and well established custom in the Middle East for millennia .It is time the left ceased the cultural imperialism of judging other cultures by western values and started thinking like true Democrats.

[clarice]

JMH, Puk--I'm laughing my head off. I blogged this post before reading your comments or I'd have included them.

Both are so right on target.

[Semanticleo]

Iraqi corruption?

They are shaping their government according to our vision of democracy, aren't they?

'Rule of Law'?. Same smell.

I don't hear much from you folks regarding their ability to govern.

We can scream 'Successful Surge' until camel toes evolve prehensile dexterity. We won't
achieve victory until they take accountability for their country.

T.E. Lawrence tried in 1917 Damascus.

Little has changed since then.

[clarice]

I predict the Iraqis will take responsibility for their own fate before the residents of Newark,NJ do.

[GD]

Carvelle was from New Orleans. Eveyone had to vote for Clinton or it's seeing and pain. Corruption?

[syn]

Has the NYTimes reported that corrupt Hillary should be held accountable for corrupt fundraiser Hsu?

That said, Iraqis will end up rebuilding an entire country before Bloomberg can rebuild the Twin Towers.

[PeterUK]

Septic Dear,
They didn't send in a couple of divisions of Sunday School teachers,the military aren't the Woodcraft Folk,they aren't there to make moral and ethical judgements,they are the to quell the violence.That the are achieving.

I take it this is the new meme du jour,pull the troops out because there are unpaid parking fines?

[SteveMG]

Gosh, the critics have been complaining about Bush trying to impose democracy around the world.

Now they complaining that he's not doing enough to impose goo goo government around the world. Goo goos in Iraq? Please.

Sure, we should try to limit or mitigate the corruption; if for no other reason than to try and establish some confidence among the people in their government.

But c'mon folks, are there any adults among liberals anymore? If so, they sure don't post here (see above).

SMG

[kim]

Baksheesh is both the beggar's cry from Egypt to India, it is also the side trades made to equalize transactions in a barter economy.
=============================

[JM Hanes]

Good grief, Semanticleo. Same ole, same ole since 1917? Santayana would be rolling over in his grave if he hadn't already been terminally spun by folks who can't tell a spurious analogy from a jellyfish.

[PeterUK]

"I don't hear much from you folks regarding their ability to govern."

There we go again,cultural imperialism,Mesopotamia,one of the cradles of civilisation,thousands of years old,cannot in the view of this leftist mollusc,govern itself.

[narciso]

Actually Cloe, Stanley Maude tried it in 1917; didn't you read Lapham's latest. Lawrence and the Australians as you know, took Damascus in 1917; you saw the film didn't you. He backed the Hashemite Husseini
clans; the ones who had Guardians of the Mosques of Mecca and Medina for a generation
on the Arabian peninsula. They were driven
out of Arabia, by the Sauds who were backed
by St. John Philby who backed the Wahhabis
despite their role in disrupting British efforts in India during the Mutiny and subsequent events; their followers actually
murdered Governor General Mayo in 1871. The
reputation of the Wahhabis even emerges in the work of Kipling; in a story about Lahore's walled city. Despite these facts,
the end credits to the film; acknowledge the
cooperation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
The Wahhabi kingdom would play a further role later in the decade; as Ilkwan (the
forerunners to Al Queda) raiders would sweep into Southern Iraq, pillaging the
Shiite holy sites of Najaf & Karbala, as they had done more than a century before; under the 1st Wahhabi empire in 1812.

[maryrose]

cleo:
Just admit it- you were totally wrong on the surge. We are winning and so de facto the Iraq people win. Now you and your dem friends are on the wrong side of history and will forever be known as retreaters and defeatists. Dems won't get the presidency because everyone knows-say it all together with me-Dems are SOFT on terrorism.

[maryrose]

Happy Birthday to all the birthday girls-clarice ,Ts and mrs. hit and run! Hope you all had a great day!

[Elliott]

Hit and Run,

I hope that Mrs. Hit and Run is having a great birthday (aside from the 3:38 p.m. lapse—what must the VIYH be saying now?).

[Doc]

There's entirely too much corruption in Iraq.
Signed, Rep. William Jefferson, LA

[clarice]

Thnx , Maryrose. I was a great cozy day.

[clarice]

**It was****

[clarice]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/12/weapons_of_mass_corruption_fou.html>Weapons of Mass Corruption

With apologies to JMH and PUK whose hilarious contributions came too late for inclusion.

[Hammurabi]

What is all this shit about my people not being able to rule Mesopotamia? I wrote the first written law code in history.

[Fat man]

A couple of years ago a couple of employees of the city government here in Columbus, OH stole $300,000 of change from the parking meter collections. Lugged it home a few hundred bucks at a time. Quagmire!

[Scribs]

Wow. Corruption in government. And here I always thought that the primary motivation for imposing democracy for the native leaders is that in a democracy, you can skim a lower percentage while getting more in absolute figures.

Afterall, every democracy does it to one extent or another -- take Canada for instance.

Please, take it.

[narciso]

Abu Ali, it's curious that was the name that Hitler was known by in the Arab world. It was also the name of a PLO commander, and
more to the point, it was the nom de plum of
an AQ insurgent in Iraq that then beat correspondent Brian Bennett (and future Time Baghdad bureau chief) juxtaposed with an American member of the 101st division (ODA 555)stationed in Iraq at the beginning of the insurgency, to show some equivalence between the two. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

It would be hard to think that the greatest American efforts in a year or two; can reverse 25 to 80 years of neglect and oppression by the Sunni tribally based ruling classes from the Al Ghailani and
Pachachi clans to the Tikriti mafia known
as the Hussein family. Who the nation's oil
wealth,(since 1927) the water, and to a large extent even the electricity of the Shia/Kurdish majority. A microcosm of the plague of Baathism can be seen in Bill Sammon's account of Saddam's massacre of Dujail; in "The Evangelical President". The fate of the villagers of Dujail sent to the prisons of Hakimiya and Abu Ghraib (back
when real torture, not naked twister with Lyndie Englund, was in session) makes for
harrowing reading. After a few such experiences followed by the deliberate campaign of terror by the 'insurgents' from 2003-2005: it was little wonder there was push back by the SCIRI's Badr brigades and
Sadr's Jaish al Mehdi (JAM)specially after
the attack on the Golden Mosque of Samarra, which touched off the 'so-called Civil War'
as opposed to the assasinations of Al Hakim
and Khoi; those were just civil disturbances
I guess. I can't rationalize the former's actions but I can see what drives them to it; specially when American indifference seen in the failed Shia uprising of 1991
made our promises of support turn to ashes.
(graphically represented in the movie;
"Three Kings" helmed by future anti-war star George Clooney,who ironically in his
capacity as con man Major Archie Gates, was for this current war before he was. . .) Well you get the idea. After the myriad betrayal of the Kurds in 1958, 1963, 1975, 1991, 1996, et al; one is surprised that they'll work with us. It's not that surprising that some took up the tie with
the IRCG; as a back up plan.

[Scrapiron]

Corruption in government, say it isn't so. Bribes in Iraq are like campaign contributions in the U.S. (only the U.S. has more $ involved), it puts moldy money from the rich trying to buy an election into circulation and some of it bleeds down to us. What are the democrats spending next year, $50,000 for each vote they get? If they get any votes after all the screwup get done screwing up.

[Carol Herman]

Maliki hates Bush's guts.

It's amazing that no one reports on just "how" (up the ying yang), Bush was with Bandar. And, all the saud's.

Instead, we learned there's an Osama cave in Afghanistan with billions! Sometimes, ya just gotta laugh.

It's like there's a bunch of magicians on the stage, doing deflecting tricks with their hands. So the obvious doesn't get noticed.

On 9/11 the Saud's hit us.

In Iraq, the Saud's brought the terror, thinking they'd subjugate the Iraqi's. Instead? Allawi didn't win. Chalabi didn't win. The People chose Maliki. And, to "win," Maliki went to Iran. And, got help to counter the Saud's terror machine.

Whose winning? Half the sunnis are gone. And, that means there are millions of people now in Jordan, syria, and other parts ... as far as their legs could carry them. Or else, they're dead.

After we leave? The dust will clear. And, it will become obvious that the Iraq prize went to Iran.

And,the Saud's got screwed.

Of course, "for his legacy," Bush intends to leave office chopping off parts of Israel, and renaming this a terrorist state.

Turns out we were with the terrorists all along.

You need Alfred Hitchcock to tell you the ending to this movie? CAROL HERMAN

[bgates]

Cleo, were you born this stupid, or did you have to take lessons? I crap smarter than you. What's the argument, that John Murtha is complaining about legislators bribed by Arabs? Alcee Hastings is whining about the lack of an independent judiciary? That's like you saying somebody in Iraq will die alone and unloved.
No crime has been committed by anyone in the Iraqi government in the past 4 years that hasn't been committed by a current Democratic officeholder - yet the Republic survives (mainly thanks to Republicans). Iraqi corruption will finally guarantee bipartisanship, since the Republicans who want to do what's best for America will be joined by the Democrats who want to fleece the Third World almost as much as they want to steal from Americans.

[narciso]

Actually the people didn't choose Maliki, he was the runner-up to Jaafari, the London
based eye doctor whose coalition run the
2005 elections. Bayan Jabr, the former interior minister now at finance (what they
copied the Italian parliamentary system) really did hate the Wahhabis (Ilkwan) with
a passion. You did here that the exiles are coming back from places like Saida Zeynab; right. Chalabi doesn't have the top job, that's a thankless job anyways, but he does
have important job coordinating, Allawi's playing the "Bin Minh" card through his
contract with Barbour's Law firm;selling the compassionate strong man angle, he did rehabilate the more reasonable Baathists for the Muthanna brigade. Bandar's gone away as has Turki, yet another time serving
functionary (Al Jubeir) doesn't have nearly
the clout; Wolfowitz is back on an advisory panel at State. We'll probably have to wait
for Charles Hill, to really bring policy back on track. Unless we end up with Huckabee, in the Oval Office then it's anybody's guess. Netanyahu will likely prevail in the next elections, so any peace deal will like be moot. It will still take
a while for the rejectionist (Hamas, PIJ) to gin up a war. Iraq is as close to a direct war with the Saudis as we are likely to see for awhile. Alawite Syria and Twelver Shia Iran, bring up the rear flank.
Pakistan is an equally tough issue, that doesn't lend itself to easy resolutions. N

[clarice]

WEll.narciso,one thing is clear:Pan-Islamism has proven as illusory as the vaunted Arab Street.

[clarice]

Some good news. It appears Chavez has lost which means he will not have the cover of an election mandate when he destroys Venezuelan democracy.

[ic]

An immediate cure for govt. corruption: call all bribes to politicians campaign contributions, call all largesse of tax payers' money to cronies earmarks. Right away, the Iraqis would have the "cleanest" govt. that can call other kettles black.

[MarkD]

Corruption is a reason to withdraw? Let's quit the U.N. now. We can credibly claim progress in Iraq.

[Appalled Moderate]

Looks like the NYT is channeling its 20th century reporting on Tammany Hall. Paying kickbacks for government jobs has a long history in the US.

The real issue of Iraqi corruption is how much of the proceeds are being used to fund the Civil War. To be honest, I only caught one reference to the money going to the militias. That may be progress. The second issue is whether significant taxpayer dollars are going to the significant enrichment of corrupt Iraqi officials. I would not be thrilled with that.

The issue that is evolving is how the local progress being caused by the surge is going to translate into governance of Iraq. I'm curious how that wil happen, and wonder whether the deadline of Jan 20, 2009 will light a fire under those guys.

[Other Tom]

OK, let me pass this on unedited and uninvestigated, and let the discussion begin. Sorry about the all caps; that's the way it came in via e-mail:

IN SPITE OF MY CURRENT DISTRACTIONS AT HOME I AM FORCED TO ENTER THE PUBLIC
ARENA TO EXPRESS MY OUTRAGE AT THE CURRENT REPUBLICAN DEBATE AS MANAGED
BY CNN. GAY KEITH IS NOT A BRIGADIER GENERAL. HE IS NOT EVEN AN ACTIVE DUTY
RETIRED ARMY OFFICER. HE SPENT HIS YEARS AS A RESERVIST SOLELY IN THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA MILITARY BUREAUCRACY. HIS BIO IS PUBLISHED IN THE GAY
ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO VOIDING THE "DON'T ASK DON'T TELL" POLICY.

FOR DETAILS. YOU MUST NOTE THAT KERR WAS RETIRED FROM THE INACTIVE ARMY
RESERVES IN THE GRADE OF COLONEL. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A FEW YEARS
SERVED ON ACTIVE DUTY AS A LIEUTENANT HIS ENTIRE SERVICE WAS IN THE RESERVES IN
CALIFORNIA. HE WAS PLACED IN RETIRED RESERVE STATUS WITH THE CALIFORNIA
NATIONAL GUARD RESERVES AND PROMOTED TO BRIGADIER GENERAL IN THAT
FEDERALLY UNRECOGNIZED STATUS.

THIS IS CONSIDERED AN "HONORARY" TITLE SIMILAR TO THE PHD AWARDED BY
UNIVERSITIES AS HONORARIUM. WE WOULD NEVER REFER TO SUCH AWARDEES AS
"DOCTOR". IT IS ALSO NOTEWORTHY THAT HE WAS A GRADUATE OF UC BERKELEY AND

SERVED AS AN INSTRUCTOR IN ACADEMIA. HE HAS NO COMBAT EXPERIENCE DURING
HIS 43 YEARS OF "SERVICE" AND IT IS A DISGRACE FOR HIM TO BE ASSOCIATED BY
THE MEDIA WITH THE ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY!!!!

THANKS FOR LISTENING TO THE VOICE OF WRATH OF THIS OLD MILITARY AVIATOR.
BRIGADIER GENERAL BILL BECKER UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, RETIRED COMBAT
VETERAN WWII, KOREA, VIETNAM

[clarice]

OT, Someone else posted that yesterday. Must be some email list.

[Jane]

Someone should send it to Drudge and Instapundit.

[PaulL]

As Mrs. Clinton says: “Now the fun part starts.”

[Other Tom]

Sorry, Clarice (and all). I didn't see it here yesterday, but I did not when I got the e-mail that there was a November 30 date on the thing. Anyhow, I've seen no commentary elsewhere. And I doubt many people think the misleading identification of the guy matters much anyway.

[kim]

It's a phony argument to false authority, but what else she got, anyway?
===============================

[SunnyDay]

I saw that letter on one of the military blogs a few days ago.

[boris]

Sara had it on Nov 30.

[clarice]

OT, I wasn't being critical of you for reporting it.I agree, it seems small potatoes, however, compared to the entire CNN fiasco.

[centralcal]

I have had a stomach ache all weekend over the news that Huckabee is not only ahead in the polls in Iowa; but has risen to 2nd place nationally.

[Porchlight]

I agree re: Huckabee, centralcal. It is quite depressing.

[clarice]

I doubt that will last long. But then I'm a hopeless optomist.

[Cecil Turner]

Huckabee is not only ahead in the polls in Iowa; but has risen to 2nd place nationally.

Huckabee? F**k Me!

[sorry, couldn't resist]

[Other Tom]

My faith in the GOP's willingness and ability to do the suicidal thing is unbounded. That's the only way I can understand the Huckabee thing.

Let me state what ought to be obvious to everyone, and probably is obvious to everyone except Republican voters: no matter what his positions are, no matter what his record is, the people of the United States will never elect as president a person named Huckabee.

[Porchlight]

Thanks, Cecil! LOL, that was pretty good. Not particularly safe for work (especially the lefty hellhole conclave that is my place of employment) but it cheered me right up.

[Jane]

Nor should they.

Huckabee gives me the creeps.

[Rick Ballard]

"Huckabee gives me the creeps."

Me too. Not quite as much as Paul or Tancredo but close.

[clarice]

Me, too.

[Appalled Moderate]

What's the problem with Huckabee? He has all the religion and spending of Bush, without that Cheney aftertaste. This guy is the logical end of "Compassionate Conservatism".

[boris]

IMO Huckabee is more evidence of US culture confusion between principle and sanctimony. The conservative version of symbolism over substance.

[centralcal]

"....creeps." Amen.

Which is why I am astounded about his rise in the polls. Is that all it takes? Some cute one-liners in televised debates (that supposedly not very many were paying attention to) to catapult a candidate upward?

But, what is worse seems to be how ineffectual the other candidates are in stopping his "momentum." Good grief!

[Porchlight]

I'm fine with Bush's religion and not fine with the spending...guess I must like the Cheney aftertaste.

Huckabee is the Democrats' idea of a great Republican candidate. That should tell you all you need to know.

[Appalled Moderate]

Porchlight:

I thought the Democrats were for Ron Paul...

[kim]

No, it's the Deaniacs behind the curtain for Ron Paul.
================================

[centralcal]

Porchlight, you are once again dead on!

Over at Hot Air they have quite the discussion going on the subject of Huckabee. I like the following commenter (so hope he is right!):

"My theory: that mass of voters who like to get breathlessly excited by the flavor of the month - formerly known as Fred!heads - caught a whiff of the Huck and Chuck show and leaped onto the bandwagon.

Now we’re watching a cyclical process: the Tribe of the Excited People bump up the polls, the press and the pundits report the bump, the Tribe of Eager Beavers gets even more excited and bumps up the polls again … etc.

Ask President Howard Dean. He knows all about the phenomenon.

It’ll stop. Soon. Not that Huckabee can’t win … but the current roller coaster will soon stabilize and you’ll see numbers that approach reality.

In short, there’s not much to see here - it’s mostly a media-fed creation, with the press both feeding the monster and then reporting on it as it rampages through Tokyo. Or, in this case, Sioux City.

Professor Blather on December 3, 2007 at 1:01 PM"

[Porchlight]

I think there is a certain flavor of leftist that plumps for Paul, AM. In fact I got into an argument with one of those guys at a party this past weekend. He was a Truther to boot (a shock, I know).

But I was referring more to the mainstream Dem caricature of Republicans as nothing but pro-life Bible thumpers. As if no one in the GOP could possibly have disagreed with Bush on anything, such as spending.

[Jane]

I think as soon as some opposition ads about Huckabee's tax and immigration policy get aired, he will be toast.

OTOH I think Hillary is toast!

[kim]

Paul himself is sort of a truther, No, not shocking.
===============================

[Ann]

I agree Jane, Huckabee's tax and immigration policies are as bad as Clinton's. And she recently got booed in Iowa on immigration.

Besides, with all do respect or should I say "God bless him"...Huckabee reminds me of Gomer Pyle with bad teeth.

He is a media creation of what they think of republicans.