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December 12, 2007

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Jane

Okay guys, I can do the first 40 minutes of this debate. It's an important one, so somebody better jump in.

Will Huck survive or even thrive? Will Fred be declared dead? Will Rudy do his duty? Will Mitt have a hit.

Ron Paul wasn't invited. Tee hee.

It should be a good one so hold on to your hats!

Elliott

Thanks to special circumstances, I'll be able to do the whole thing. Where are you seeing that Ron Paul won't be there, Jane? I thought the deal was that Gravel and Kucinich won't be at the Democratic debate tomorrow and Alan Keyes will be at the one today.

Jane

Here we go! Britt Hume will narrate - so I'm a happy camper. The final debate before the Iowa caucuses. Will they ask Huck if he had bariatric surgery?

Immigration is front and center, as it should be given the republican upsets in VA and Ohio (?) yesterday.

The moderator is Carolyn Washburn the editor of the Des Moine Register.

Frank Luntz will show you (not me, my back is to the TV) who is doing well. If you are out there, post the reaction.

Jane

Oh thank goodness Elliott. We can now rest easy, and I can come back and read about what I missed.

I read the Ron Paul non-invite somewhere. Gawd knows where at this point.

Typepad is moving slowly today, so patience is the key.

Jane

The moderator accuses the republicans of not debating since summer. Hmmm perhaps she does not get national news. The issues will not include Iraq or Immigration because we cannot of course discuss the republican strongholds. And Ron Paul is there so I'm wrong from the beginning and now we have that crackpot Alan Keyes. Can you say sabotage?

Jane

We have a Tsumani of debt and that's a national security risk.

Rudy; It's a major problem which has not been addressed for 20 years. 1. Reduce government spending. (he co-opts Romney's plan of not rehiring) 2. Reduce taxes. It's a threat to economic not national security.

Hunter: Yes the trade loss is a big threat to national security. Level the playing field, stop China from cheating on trade. Something about medicare.

Ron Paul: It's a threat blah,blah,blah and we have a bad foreign policy.

Tancredo: It's a threat because of the import of oil. We shouldn't supply funds to people who want to hurt us.

Fred. We are bankrupting the next generation. It effects our national security because it underfunds our forces. Get rid of entitlements. Fix SS and medicare.

Mitt: Overspending is a challange. The future is bright. The best answer is jobs, schools, healthcare and growth of the nation.

Huck: It's a national security threat. We have to feed, fuel and fight for ourselves. Outsourcing is bad.

McCain: Economic strength begats military strength. We can't increase taxes. Energy independance, in 5 years.

keyes: It's obvious. I'll now tell you about the constitution, and abolish the income tax, fair tax, blah blah blah. Bash politiians.

Sue

Cool. Maybe Keyes can pull some of the evangelicals away from Huck.

Elliott

Fox switches to the feed from Iowa, the intro is very PBS.

Moderator: First debate since summer for Republicans, 6 in 10 could change mind. Won't talk too much about immigration or Iraq because Iowans know where the candidates stand on those.

Introductions and rules. Zzzzzzz......

Q1: US fiscal policy. Does country's financial situation create a security risk.

Giuliani: Major problem that hasn't been adequately addressed. Reduce government spending. Caps, don't replace retiring workers, cut taxes. Corporate tax first, inheritance tax. Islamic terrorism much more of a national security issue.

Hunter: Trade deficit is the big problem. China is our banker and we don't want a banker who doesn't have our interests at heart. Don't let them cheat on agreements and bring manufacturing jobs back home.

Paul: Threat to security. We're destroying the currency by living beyond means. Unaffordable foreign policy.

(I won't be able to follow the PeopleMeter).

Tancredo: (missed a bit) Energy independence is important so dollars don't go to countries hostile to us.

Thompson: 9 trillion dollar debt. Bankrupting children. Harms security because won't be able to spend more on military given the entitlement situation. Reforms needed.

Romney: Overspending and overpromising problematic but future is bright. Rein in spending and grow economy. Level playing field, no foreign oil. Strong America doesn't start in Washington, starts with American people.

Huckabee: Country needs to feed itself, fuel itself, helps itself fight. Enslaved to others when we outsource those.

McCain: Economic strength necessary to maintain military strength. Been on spending spree. $100 oil means $400 billion to other countries, some to terrorism. Energy independence in 5 years.

Keyes: Get rid of income tax, fair tax. Will limit power of politicians to secure support through how they direct public money.

Q2: What sacrifices from Americans to lower deficit and debt (I'm pretty sure this was the question)?

Giuliani: Restrain central government, cut taxes. Let people make own choices on health care. Bold American solution.

Paul: Sacrifice unnecessary. More liberty. Cut military overseas.

Huckabee: Not sacrifice, just doing things differently. Focus on prevention with health care. That will save money. Focus on snake not snake bite.

Romney: Don't need to run deficit to pay for important things, because we can eliminate the unimportant things. I learned in the private sector how to focus on important things. 342 programs, many of which we don't need. Get health insurance for everyone, better schools. Sacrifice is letting go of bad programs.

Tancredo: Follow the constitution. Limiting document. Protect and defend country. Focus on constitution, other things extraneous. Don't ask government for womb to tomb protection. Politicians make promises along those lines for votes.

Thompson: I'd run a deficit for the military, to protect Americans, and for research and development. I'm going to take chance by telling truth to Americans. Entitlements will doom us. We're not so selfish to kick this can down the road. Can't afford Warren Buffett's medicare.

Jane

What sacrifices will you make?

Rudy - restrain the federal government. (phone)Lose the nanny government.(yes)

Paul: People don't need to sacrifice anything. Just cut foreign policy. Blah blah blah blah.

Huck: Just do things differently - no sacrifice required.

Are there programs that are so important you would run a deficit -

Mitt: not necessary - just get rid of the unimportant programs. He emphasizes his private sector experience.

Tancredo: Follow the constitution. It is a limiting doc. Concentrate on defending and protecting the country. Don't ask the gvt for womb to tomb protection.

Fred: I'd run a deficit for military, R&D and infrastructure. Entitlement programs will eat up our entire budget. We can't kick the can down the road, we have to do it nwo. no medicare for the super rich.

Who is paying more than fair share of taxes?

Keyes: the question is bad, it's the media's fault. Get rid of incumbents.

McCain: Low income, and let's reform the tax code. (phone)

huck: Fair tax. it will make poor people rich.

Mitt: he's concerned about middle tax payers.

fred: He wants to be as rich as Mitt. (me too) (Mitt says he wants to be like Fred - fred retorts that he is getting to be a pretty good actor)

Hunter: Need a new tax system.

Paul: Inflation tax is bad. blah blah blah.

Tancredo: The IRS.

Rudy: reduce corp tax, income tax, death tax.

kim

Oh please let Thompson, Giuliani, and Romney all be in the next administration, and none of the rest!
============================

Elliott

Q3: Who in country is paying more than fair share of taxes?

Keyes: Foolish question, we need to sacrifice some incumbents. Republicans who have spent too much.

McCain: Low income Americans don't pay taxes except payroll tax. Need reform, can't raise taxes. Not sure who's paying too much.

Huckabee: Fair tax. Gives people a shot at American dream.

Romney: I'm not concerned about taxes on rich, I worry about the taxes that middle class has to pay with rising prices.

Thompson: My goal is to get into Mitt Romney's situation where I don't have to worry about taxes anymore.

Romney: I want to be in you're situation.

Thompson: You're getting to be a pretty good actor.

(missed Thompson's stats, and Tancredo's answer).

Paul: MIddle class being wiped out by a tax I missed (payroll?).

Hunter: Costs too much to prepare taxes.

Giuliani: Flat tax might be option. Lower taxes and get rid of inheritance.

Candidate statements.

McCain: Involved with national security issues for a long time and has gained judgment. Maintain greatness.

Hunter: Fix bad trade deals. Served and son served. Know what it takes to secure country, helped build border fence and will finish it in six months.

Jane

Jobs: We depend on exports and are exporting jobs. How do you keep both open.

Ron Paul: Let's get along with Cuba. blah blah blah.

Mitt: Invest in education, technology, get off foreign oil, renegotiate with China, don't put up trade barriers.

Huck. 3 things cause job migtation - he has a slogan for everything. Too much litigation - I missed the other two.

Human rights violations happen. Should we alter our trade regulations as a result.

McCain - panders to Iowa, then says No ethanol subsidies .

How should we change Nafta?

Rudy: Enforce nafta. Free trade is good.

Fred: Free trade and fair trade is the backbone of our economy. Mexico should think about that. Commit to free and fair trade.

Tancredo: Nafta is a disaster. That's why we have all the illegals. Borders are now meaningless.

Hunter: We went from surplus to loss. Nafta is a bad business deal.

Sue

Oh Gawd. Global warming.

Jane

How many think global climate change is a serious threat caused by human activity

Fred refuses to raise hand and says let me talk or I won't vote. Applause.

The rest talk over each other. McCain knows climate change is real. But let's pretend it isn't, it's still good to be green. (So the moderator who said you can't comment let's him)

Rudy agrees.

What impact on the economy would be acceptable to reduce global warming.

Mitt: It can be good for the economy because we will get off oil. Energy independance is key - and it's not just us, it's the whole globe.

Keyes: All the politicians up here are jerks

And now I have to go. Take it away Elliott!

Sue

The moderator is an ass. I thought it was Brit Hume?

Elliott

Q4: 1 in 5 jobs in Iowa depends on foreign trade. How maintain without losing jobs to outsourcing?

Paul: Continue free trade, even with Cuba. Monetary systems is the big problem.

Romney: I know why jobs come and go, done business in 20 countries. Invest in education, technology. Level playing field. Energy independence. Don't let people close markets on us. We can and must compete anywhere.

Huckabee: Job migration comes from excessive taxation, regulation. I can't part the Red Sea but I can part the red tape. Too much litigation.

Q5: Human rights abuses by trading partners.

McCain: Advocate for every country to respect human rights. I'll open all markets to Iowa's crops but I will eliminate subsidies. They are a mistake and no one who supports them is a fiscal conservative.

Q6: Changes in NAFTA.

Giuliani: Enforce it. I was concerned, but I've seen that it works. Embrace free trade and a global economy. There are many, many new customers for the US.

Thompson: Free and fair trade is the backbone of our economy. Need to make commitment to it and enforce agreements. (Something about Mexico and immigration). Problem is too many markets closed to us.

Tancredo: NAFTA disaster for Mexico. Destroyed our sovereignty.

Hunter: Trade deficit with Mexico when NAFTA was supposed to increase our surplus. We have not reached good agreements.

More statements.

Paul: More freedom. Drifted too far from constitution. Constitution used to restrain people not government. Economic crisis.

Thompson: Strong consistent economic conservative. Most important issue is national security. Who would you want representing you when we sit down to talk with enemies?

Q7: Global warming caused by humans?

Thompson: Won't do show of hands. Won't answer unless given time.

Everyone is talking over each.

McCain: Real and have to address it. Cap and trade. Cleaner better world for our grand children.

Giuliani: Real, humans contributing.

Q8: What impact on economy acceptable to reduce emissions?

Romney: It will be good for our economy because we'll invest in new technology and we'll be off foreign oil. Global warming, not just American warming.

Keyes: Who represents the voice that's not being represented on sovereignty, moral issues, loss of jobs. People on stage have undermined US.

Thompson: I agree with Alan Keyes position on global warming.

Keyes: Need to control hot air emissions produced by politicians.

Q for Huckabee: Will you enforce alternative mandate even if it hurts Iowa's economy?

Huckabee: (missed most of answer) Cleaner world for children. Government can help create marketplace.

Hunter: Don't need mandate. Opportunity to create new industry. Incentives are the way to go.

Tancredo: Leave it to the market.

Ann

Sue,

The moderator is an ass and has a big one, too. :)

Sue

Well, there goes Fred's support from the NEA. ::grin::

PaulL

I had to quit watching when, with the exception of Fred Thompson, these idiots fell all over themselves rushing to be against global warming.

Would it be that hard for them to say that carbon is not a pollutant, and that global warming is non-scientific nonsense designed to separate taxpayers from their money.

I'm extremely disappointed that Rudy and Mitt swallow this Chicken Little scenario. I expected McCain to be this stupid, so I'm not surprised with him.

Fred looks like the only sensible person up there.

Sue

Paul,

I agree.

Elliott

Statements.

Tancredo: 45 years of unlimited massive immigration. Even worse because no assimilation. Will end up with polyglot boardinghouse.

Huckabee: People looking for leadership, change. Elected to be a serving class not a ruling class. Represent ordinary, not elite. Remember who we work for. Most important job is to keep America safe. This country has give me great opportunity and I won't forget where I came from.

Q10: Education. American children are behind, what standards needed to compete in global economy.

McCain: More choice and competition needed k-12. More charter schools, vouchers, homeschooling, reward good teachers, get rid of bad teachers. Some charter schools fail, but the competition improves the product overall. NYC, Bloomberg and the superintendent doing great things.

Giuliani: Here because of educational choices parents made. Educational standards should be decided one not by bureaucrats, but by parents. Higher ed, best in world, and comes from competition and choice. Take that to k-12 and give people choice.

Hunter: Story about Hispanic calculus teacher in LA who did a great job. Get rid of bureaucratic credentialing. Need teachers who can inspire. The great teacher was run out of town by the unions.

Q11. Does the federal government need to change it's policy to improve education in short term?

Romney: Education important, President right to fight for NCLB. In Massachusetts, English immersion, scholarships for good performers on graduation exam. Higher pay for good teachers, more parental involvement. Best students in country 4th and 8th grade testing.

Huckabee: State issue, not federal issue. Federal government can make sure that the best ideas in some states are shared with other states. Personalize education. Students are bored. Unleash weapons of mass instruction. Music and art for every student. Need to develop right side of brain as well as left side.

Keyes: Let me answer question, because I've been getting skipped. Our schools our failing because god is out of the schools. Need to pass along moral heritage. Other candidates only talk about this when discussing their own faith. Need solid ground of a moral education.

Paul: Federal government biggest obstacle to improving education. We said we'd get rid of DOE but instead we doubled budget. Release creativity of teachers at local level. Increase private and homeschooling. Predictable that quality goes down with bureaucrats in charge.

Thompson: NEA biggest obstacle to improving education. They always oppose choice, freedom, and competition with their scare tactics and misrepresentation. Inner city people need to have benefit of choice. Moving to a different neighborhood for a better school is an example of people making choice.

Tancredo: Don't need DOE. Encumbrance on ability to teach children, along with federal involvement. Huckabee, run for governor if you want to dictate curriculum

Huckabee: I had executive experience for longer than anyone else and the best record on education. President should use bully pulpit to encourage best practices. 1/3 of our kids don't graduate and a president should speak out against that.

Romney: I had a better record on education. Agree with Thompson on NEA. Need everyone, parents, teachers, government to work together to improve education.

Elliott

Q12: What can you accomplish in first year as President?

Giuliani: Secure against terror and on way to winning GWOT. Stop illegal immigration. Reduce size of government, start accomplishing energy independence.

Hunter: Strengthen military. Emergence of NK, Iran, China. Strengthen border, build fence. Bring back industrial base of USA. High paying manufacturing jobs need to be brought back.

Paul: Difficult to do a lot in a year, but could end war and bring troops home. Become diplomatically credible. No preemptive war, no threats.

Tancredo: Free Ramos and Compean. Secure borders, enforce laws on hiring illegals. Use bully pulpit to explain we have battle in Iraq and a war against radical Islam which a threat to Western Civilization.

Thompson: Go before American people, tell them we haven't come to terms with threat facing us, bankrupting children. Tell Congress if they won't act I'll go over your head.

Romney: Stop radical jihad, decrease tax burden, strengthen military and economy.

Huckabee: Not going to happen until we end polarization. Government will be paralyzed unless next President represents all. Need to be united people.

McCain: First obligation to keep America safe. Diplomatic, intelligence, military, cyberspace challenge. Restore trust in government. Spending, borders, corruption have lessened trust.

Keyes: Restore sovereignty of American people. Protect unborn, abolish income tax, replace with fair tax. Seal border.

Candidate statements.

Romney; Thank you to people of Iowa. My son has been in all 99 counties, I've done lots of meetings. Iowa is great. I'll keep America strong, jobs in America, and I'll get health care for all. Focus on values. Need your help, I want your vote.

Keyes: Restore credibility of Republican party. Let government grow and didn't secure border.

Giuliani: Been tested, had to provide leadership in crises, not just September 11th. Problems with terrorism, border, economic security remain unsolved. 12 commitments and I can get results.

Ann

Huckaboo is going to unite us all, except well the Mormons.

Fred is doing great, so is Mitt.

I want to slap the moderator and Alan Keyes.

Elliott

Q13: Voters concerned about character and values.

(Videos of candidates:

Giuliani: Need to get input from voters or get out of touch.

Hunter: Hard to vote for budget and against pork.

Paul: The internet is great, you can get correct answers for just about everything there.)

For Giuliani: Security expenses not transparent.

Giuliani: All information available and known, I'd make sure government was transparent as it was in NYC. I haven't been perfect, but I've learned from mistakes. Open and transparent government and open and transparent life. This was an accounting practice, been known for 6 years.

Keyes: Be authentic about who you are. Don't flip-flop like Romney. Don't abandon heritage of Republican party by supporting Giuliani. Allow people to communicate with leadership.

Romney: Everyone know that I was pro-choice, but when a bill came to my desk, I couldn't come down against life. Lots of politicians changed their mind. I'm proud to be pro-life.

Giuliani: I oppose abortion but choice should be left to women. Limits on abortions, increases in adoptions.

For Thompson: When would you disagree with IC?

Thompson: Most important question today. Problems with IC. It like military has been neglected. Changed mind in 2 years. Have to rebuild from bottom up. We need to rely on others. President can't let piece of paper from bureaucrat alone determine decisions.

(Videos:

Huckabee: Faith drives life, can't say you have it but doesn't influence.

McCain: People, courts, Congress, President have to be on same page with measures we take on terror.)

For Huckabee: How will faith influence policy on health care or education?

Huckabee: Give poor same treatment as rich in health care and education. All created equal with same rights. Can't have some more equal than others. Choice in education, great health care for Congress but not for many Americans.

Q: Is it more important to have fiscal or social conservative as next president?

Romney: It's most important that it be a conservative. Three legged stool of Reagan. Conservative principles work.

Hunter: Repeat question, I was lost in Romney's good answer. Both important. Don't send technology to our enemies. Bain and a Chinese company are trying to buy a defense contractor.

Sara

Well it isn't over, but I'm giving it a tie between Mitt and Fred. What is Alan Keyes doing there with his constant whining? He is such an a$$.

Elliott

(Video.

Romney: People should be legislating, not judges.

Tancredo: Good and human sides.

Thompson: Look at social policies. Take long term view and consider how to leave country in best shape. That's real patriotism.)

Q15: For Tancredo: Aren't you weak on foreign policy?

Tancredo: It's just a battle in Iraq, the war is against radical Islam. We can stop being the police force in Iraq.

Q16: How will you get your agenda passed?

Paul: My agenda will appeal to left right and middle.

Q17: For McCain: Did you ever wished you'd compromised instead of standing firm?

McCain: I can't think of any time I'd want to abandon principles. My legislative record is better than anyone else. I'll hold to principles and reach across aisle.

New Year's resolution for one of opponents:

Keyes: Americans, remember we're created equal.

McCain: Raise level of debate, don't accuse others of lack of patriotism.

Huckabee: I'm going to be more careful in what I say. (When challenged) I'd have my opponents make it to.

Romney: Come to together to defeat Democrats.

Thompson: Be a better man, husband, father, have faith.

Tancredo: (For Huckabee) How are going to convince Americans you can be trusted on immigration.

Paul: Follow constitution, beware of domestic enemies.

Hunter: Buy American goods.

Giuliani: Take a look at America and realize how lucky we are. Let's not be pessimistic. We've faced challenges before and we've overcome them.

It's over.

Sue
It's over.

Not soon enough.

Sue

That was horrible. I think Fred won because he didn't take it serious. I would have loved to reach around and smack that moderator. Really hard.

Sue

Other blogs are saying the focus group picked Romney. Well, okay. So long as they didn't pick the Huckster.

Sara

A panel man just called Huckabee the Huckabomb. LOL

Sara

Yes the panel was near 100% in agreement that Romney won.

Sara

I thought the candidates did a whole lot better than the woman asking the questions. On the Britt Hume after talk, she was called a "school marm."

Rick Ballard

Elliot,

Thank you for another excellent job.

Sue,

Was it just the ugliness of the pander suits that everyone but Fred was wearing concerning AGW or was there something else (aside from the idiot moderator) that was drawing your ire?

Sara

Pander suits? I don't understand. How many different types of suits can a politician or businessman wear? Short of coming out in some hip hop suit dripping with bling, how can they look much different?

Sue
Sue,

Was it just the ugliness of the pander suits that everyone but Fred was wearing concerning AGW or was there something else (aside from the idiot moderator) that was drawing your ire?

Interesting question, Rick. I am trying to remember if I felt ire before the question. I didn't make a comment before that so maybe that is why my ire kicked in. But it definitely kicked in. I wanted all of them, including the nuts Paul and Keyes, to walk off the set in unison. I think it was the moderator that caused my ire to peak. But I didn't like the answers either. I didn't like Johnny-boy reminding me he reaches across the aisle (McCain-Feingold, Kennedy-McCain), I didn't like Huckster's what he thinks is important when he first takes office. I don't care if we are polarized, we will be polarized as long as the president is a republican doing what needs to be done. I liked all of Fred's responses. Maybe he'll shoot through the middle!

Sue

Sara,

He was talking figuratively, not literally.

Sara

Oh, blush.

SunnyDay

Fred will be on Hannity in a few minutes. He also had a decent writeup in WaPo.

Jane

When I left it seemed clear to me Mitt was winning - simply because as I was driving to my appointment, his words resonated. I guess that is as good as any way to judge. What I started thinking was that he really is quite competent, and we really do need some competence, and he might be the guy who can solve some of our big financial problems, e.g. Social Security.

Rick Ballard

"Maybe he'll shoot through the middle!"

Iowa is an organizational test. Romney has spent enormous sums in order to project an illusion of strength to carry him past South Carolina. I'm not at all sure that Thompson is shooting for more than 2nd place in Iowa, or that he needs more than a 2nd place finish. He's skipping New Hampshire and he needs to beat Romney in SC, which is an extremely plausible scenario.

There may not be a clear leader even after February 5th, which would be fine with me.

The Red Witch is counting on having a clear target after the 5th for her minions in the DeMSM to demolish. It will be delightful if she is still struggling with Hussein Il Jong while the Republican field still has three (or four) contenders out firing away at her.

Sue

Jane,

Mitt has been my husband's pick all along. I admit to being a Rudy supporter and still hope he pulls it off, but I wouldn't be opposed to Romney or Thompson.

Ann

Thanks Jane and Elliott.

That trully was the worse debate ( if you can even call it that).

Fred Barnes called the moderator Nurse Ratchet. LOL

Alan Keyes got more time than Rudy or McCain.

Sara

Hillary is now losing in both Iowa and New Hampshire, although it is sort of seesaw in N.H. I think she is toast at this point and I think nearly any of the Repubs can beat Obama in the General.

I don't know how Romney will do in S.C. but he will be carrying a big win from N.H. and I still think he is going to take Iowa. I don't think Florida is as much in the bag for Fred as some do, especially with the Jeb Bush machine most likely behind Romney. We'll see.

Fred made some headway today, although I still think Romney won.

Jane: Remember back to Nixon-Kennedy. Those watching TV thought JFK won, those listening on the radio thought Nixon won. It all had to do with the sweat and 5 o'clock shadow factor, as I recall.

Ann

And what was with those taped videos? Just stupid, IMO.

Porchlight

Elliott and Jane, thank you so much. I had a meeting so I missed the whole thing.

I love Fred Thompson. I know the CW is that he's not in it to win, but damn if I don't agree with just about everything he says as well as the way he says it. Good for him for not going along with that global warming b.s., too.

Ann

Did the moderator remind you of Hillary? Just thinking.

Will the moderator be the same tomorrow? Should be interesting for people to see the similarities. Especially, the wide angle shot from behind.

Sara

I'll bet no one saw this one coming!

ABA Magazine Names Gonzales 'Lawyer of the Year'

hrtshpdbox

JOM quotes:
"Fred looks like the only sensible person up there."
"…I'm giving it a tie between Mitt and Fred."
"I think Fred won because he didn't take it serious."
"I liked all of Fred's responses."
"When I left it seemed clear to me Mitt was winning…"

Isn't it clear that Fred Thompson is an unexciting candidate who won't win a single primary? Isn't it also clear that Mitt Romney has spent a tremendous amount of money and time in a state where he'll be lucky to finish 2d. And isn't it also clear that the "winner" of this and any GOP debate is Mike Huckabee, even if you don't happen to like him, as he IS the news and the headline, and will continue to be?

Huckabee, Republicans Say Economic Woes Pose Risk
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aUL5IB15rEt0&refer=home

Garth

Glenn Greenwald suggested,

One of the most interesting aspects of the presidential campaign thus far (and there have actually been dreadfully few of those) is the almost universal animosity towards Mike Huckabee from the right-wing establishment (animosity that matches and even exceeds that which they had been directing at Ron Paul).

The party's dominant neocons, its business interests, its hard-core immigration restrictionists, and its chattering class all seem alternatively embarrassed by Huckabee's support and furious that their top-down decrees are being ignored.

Most of all, they seem resentful that the monster they created and exploited for so long -- the infusion of evangelical dogmatism into their party -- is now a monster they can't control.


Ann

Re: Huckaquotes [John Derbyshire]
A reader: "Wouldn't 'Huckabites' be a better term?"

[Me] I like that. "Huckabites." Pass it round.

Sara

Okay, how 'bout a Romney/Thompson ticket. Romney can be our CEO, Fred can replace Dick Cheney as the attack dog tell it like it is guy. I think he would perform a much needed function in that role and drive the MSM and left bonkers.

Bill in AZ

hrt - did you sneak around and read that off the teleprompter?

michaelt

Has the Huckabomb hired the Paultrolls?

SunnyDay

Hogwash

Sara

Via NRO The Corner:

More Huck the Disingenuous   [Mark Hemingway]

I'm still getting barraged with emails regarding my post about about Huck's portrayal of Mormon theology, mostly pointing out various theological distinctives on both the Mormon and Christian side that I glossed over. But this email I received from a pastor puts things in context:

I tend to agree with you. I do believe that, while Mormonism is obviously derived from Christianity, it is a different religion (cf. First Things, March 2000 and June/July 2000). But we are not electing the leader of my church, faith, or religion.

The issue is not theology, but governance, and however much I disagree with Romney’s theology, it has led him to advocate a form of governance that I like, while the converse is true in Huckabee’s case – I like his theology, but his record of governance leaves much to be desired. Let Huckabee preach. Let Romney rule.

Syl

It's really weird hearing McCain use forceful words with such a tired voice. I thought Fred did great, as did Romney.

Rudy has lost his footing a bit. Policy is fine--in fact he got the highest off-the-chart (literally) response when he answered re his first year in office. But he seems weary of answering the attack questions.

I understand what he's leaving unsaid, that he's answered these same questions for YEARS and is getting tired of it because nobody listens and just asks them over and over and over again. He's used to a hostile press and expects it. Would serve him well as president (especially after Bush's ineptitude on that score) but who seems to realize that?

Anyway, somewhat glad that Huck didn't get a soundbite that the dems can use over and over to show how clever/nice he is. I really like the guy but don't want him near the Whitehouse (VP okay). I'd vote for him over any Democrat, but don't want to have to.

I do agree with him about the arts in education, though.

I didn't care for the moderator's style but I thought the questions were better than what's come out of the cable moderators' mouths (except for that one time with Britt).

Okay, two more things. Why have so many gone isolationist re trade? Gotta watch it, guys.

and re AGW I think 'accepting' it as a pseudo fact may be a good thing. If you can't lick 'em, join 'em and thereby have credibility to control the policy.

Rick Ballard

"Okay, how 'bout a Romney/Thompson ticket. Romney can be our CEO, Fred can replace Dick Cheney as the attack dog tell it like it is guy."

Sara,

That wouldn't be bad, nor would vice versa be bad. Giuliani (if he would take the second slot) wouldn't be bad either. Giuliani on top would be problematic - way too many skeletons for the DeMSM to drag around.

Those three ought to pool resources and set up their own debate right after Iowa. If the DeMSM wouldn't carry it, go U-Tube and tell the networks to shove it.

Sara

Has the Huckabomb hired the Paultrolls?

I saw this discussed the other day and many think this is where his support is coming from or from the left in general just to screw things up. But, I looked all day yesterday and could not find the link I had seen the day before.

Garth

I Heart Huckabee.

I would vote for him over Hillary, but none of those other nut jobs.

And definitely not Rudy. There's so much more dirt on him, he's a walking time bomb.

There's no way he can win.

Huckabee's like a Republican Jimmy Carter.

And I mean that in the best possible way.

Sara

I threw out the Romney/Thompson suggestion sort of in jest, but now the more I think on it, the more I'm liking the idea. It would be perfect. We get the high energy executive, good with facts and figures and the CEOish type things, Fred, more laid back, not so anxious to have to be on every minute 24/7 as well as expected to be diplomatic at all costs, can do what he does best, tell the dopes to put it where the sun don't shine. And Romney can use someone who knows his way around Congress and especially the Senate. Plus he brings in the South and those lingering religious conservatives.

By tomorrow, I will have myself convinced that this is the true "dream team." :)

Sara

Huckabee's like a Republican Jimmy Carter.

And I mean that in the best possible way.

What could possibly be good about being like Jimmah? Ye Gads!

Huckabee and Paul are the two I absolutely WOULD NOT vote for. I'll stay home from the polls if he is the choice. But not to worry, he won't be.

He is too Carteresque. I lived thru the Carter years once and once was more than enough for anyone's lifetime. Gas lines around the block, having to wear sweaters to keep our heat down, no Christmas lights, a disaster in foreign policy, a bigger disaster if you happened to be military (which we were). THE worst president in history.

Carter + Huck = religious bigot personified

Elliott

I believe I erred in the 2:40 p.m. post. I'd thought Thompson had said, "I agree with Alan Keyes position on global warming," but Jim Geraghty at The Campaign Spot reports:

After a lengthy sermon that covers just about everything but global warming, Fred Thompson chuckles, "there's Alan Keyes' position on global warming."

That makes a lot more sense.

Jane

Jane: Remember back to Nixon-Kennedy. Those watching TV thought JFK won, those listening on the radio thought Nixon won

I was 8, but I do remember hearing about it. I'm not sure it was that year tho. FTR I was for Nixon. I went to a cocktail party with my mother and the guests asked the kid who she was for (I grew up in Massachusetts) and I announced "Nixon" because he had more experience having been VP. Everyone thought I was just so cute.

FTR That was the last time I supported tricky Dick.

glasater

Huckabee comes off as very personable but for some reason I hearken back to Mayberry RFD and Gomer Pyle. No offense to Jim Neighbor's singing skills.

Porchlight

Jane, in 1972 (I was three) my dad asked me the same question and I answered "Walter Cronkite."

Sara

Ike Turner, of Ike and Tina Turner, has died. I can't believe he was 76.

Sue

Can we make Rudy the AG? I really hate for my guy to be left totally out in the cold.

Sara

The first time I was eligible to vote was 1968 and I proudly voted for Nixon. Back then you had to be 21 to vote.

Sara

I think the voting minimum should still be 21, with a military exception.

Sara

Sue: I've pushed Rudy for AG since he first announced.

Rick Ballard

The Red Witch must really be planning on going after Hussein. The Times reports that sludge pumper Howard Wolfson has been called to Iowa to set up the "War (sic) Room" because the Witch is melting so fast.

I don't think that Hussein is going to be such a shiny penny for much longer.

Jane

Jane, in 1972 (I was three)

Porchlight,

In 1972, I was a hippie.

Sue

Elliott,

Let me clear it up. Thompson refused to participate in the hand waving and the moderator went to Alan Keys who proceeded to go on a 1 minute tirade about anything but global warming. That is why Thompson said he agreed with Keyes on global warming. Keyes never touched the subject.

Ann

Thanks Elliott

I don't know how you do it, but you do it good. And how you keep from not making snarky comments is beyond me.

There is some other information over at NRO's Campaign Spot:

Huckabite does not have a theology degree. He has a BA in Biblical Studies.


Keyes didn't meet the criteria to be at the debate but was allowed.
and
Kucinich will not be included on a technicality at the Dem debate.

Ann

Rick,

Have you been over to riehlworldview.com? Very interesting goings on in Iowa.

Porchlight
In 1972, I was a hippie.

Ah, that explains why you were no longer supporting Nixon. :)

Elliott

Rick Ballard:

I'm not at all sure that Thompson is shooting for more than 2nd place in Iowa, or that he needs more than a 2nd place finish.

I think you have it exactly right. Such an outcome would improve Thompson's prospects immeasurably.

glasater

Kucinich does not have campaign office in Iowa but is operating out of a home. So that is the technicality that keeps him out of the Dem debate.
I wasn't old enough to vote for Nixon but became a college young republican in the aftermath of his and Ford's presidency. Was one of the youngest county vice chairs locally.
Used to kid that I have a "past"--was involved in partisan politics.
Gave it up after Reagan because I got tired of trying to raise money.

bgates

Huckabee's like a Republican Jimmy Carter.

And I mean that in the best possible way.

You mean, you think he'll serve 1 term and be followed by a tremendously influential conservative?

Rick Ballard

Ann,

If you think about the semi-decent people the Clinton scum have driven from active participation on the Dem side, guys like Bill Bradley and Bob Kerrey, it's very easy to understand that folks in Iowa aren't going to particpate in the Red Witch's annointment. Toss in the fact that Screamin' Dean did more for grass roots efforts in two years than Clinton bootlicker Terry "Bill's Rolodex" McCauliffe did in his entire stint, add a snip of the Red Witch sucking up cash like an industrial vacuum in this cycle and one might begin to question just how many Dems would like never to hear the name "Clinton" ever again.

The Red Witch is as powerful as a candite in 2007 as the USSR was as a country in 1988 and for exactly the same reason. David Copperfield has absolutely nothing on the illusionists employed in the media.

Elliott

Sue,

Thank you for clarifying that.

Ann,

Thanks for the compliment. I'm sorry I'll be unable to do it tomorrow, but I will enjoy Jane's liveblog (if there is one) along with the humorous remarks that will be made. It should be a target rich environment and I'm already eager to see what everyone will have to say about the moderator tomorrow.

Sara

Krauthammer: debate, transcendingly and crushingly dull

Ann

Rick,

That was very good. Still laughing and I agree, I have never thought she would be annointed.

The Democratic Congress is going down in flames and so is she, with the help of Bill.

It is enjoyable to hear many of them say Al Gore will step in and save the day. You really can't make this stuff up.

Sara

Latest Gallop Poll, Dec. 6-9:

Bush 37%, Congress 22%

RichatUF

Ann-

link for Ann's comment I think.

Hussein-the dopehead-and the Clinton campaign couldn't throw that bomb and make it look like Rush Limbaugh. This could get interesting. And in other news, isn't it about time that another Clinton Shady Fundraising™ story make some wood.

RichatUF

Rick-

The Red Witch is as powerful as a candite in 2007 as the USSR was as a country in 1988 and for exactly the same reason.

LOL. However, I'm still in the camp that Hillary's nomination is a done deal. I think she can weather an Iowa loss [not so sure if she can lose both Iowa and NH and still have enough in the tank for the rest of Jan and Feb 5 though].

We live in interesting times.

glasater

Hillary has so much money that it's hard to think she would not get the nomination. But then I think of two candidates for president that also had a ton of money--John Connally and Phil Gramm--who did NOT make the cut. So there is some hope that Hillary follow the same path--along with John Dean.
However, on Real Clear--the polls so far show every republican candidate losing to a democrat except for McCain.

Sara

In this format, how will they ever keep Biden within the allotted 15 second answers tomorrow? Just askin'

maryrose

Obama is poised to run the table in Iowa,N.H. and S.C. Hil is imploding as we speak. Wolfson is driving to Iowa-he doesn't like to fly-Patti-Solis-Doyle is going belly-up in Iowa.And I am munching on popcorn and enjoying the show!

Rick Ballard

Rich,

Rasmussen does a tick tock on Red Witch Melting which is pretty thorough. When Bob Kerrey stated that "Clinton's an unusually good liar. Unusually good. Do you realize that?", he was referring to Mr. Jello On The Wall, not the Red Witch. She is not a particularly gifted liar. In fact, she's not gifted at all in the mendacity department. She has all the believability of a four year old with a chocolate smudged face, denying any knowledge as to the whereabouts of the cookies (insert "crazed pyscho", "bloody knife" and "body" if imagery presented is unacceptable).

Glasater is correct in noting that money ain't everything. The Red Witch is brittle, shallow, vindictive and obsessively controlling. Kerry without the charm or self knowledge.

The election is beginning to get interesting.

Sara

Huck rumored to be picking up MAJOR foreign policy endorsement tomorrow.

Any guesses?

Me: Jimmah Carter?

Ann

The Des Moines Register has a website where you can see videos of candidates answering questions. Hilllary's is fascinating. When she is asked "Where do you frequently visit to renew your soul (she has one?) and what do you do there? She answers that she loves being in nature, long walks with her husband and her dog (Buddy is dead. Does she have a new dog?), she walks back and forth to the Capitol and she loves to hike!!!!

Watch the whole thing. Complete Rubbish but Fascinating.

Hillary Rubbish

Ann

Good Question:

Why Is Keyes In and Kucinich Out? [Byron York]

Rick Ballard

"Where do you frequently visit to renew your soul and what do you do there, Miz Clinton?"

The basement of the house in Chappaqua is built as a perfect pentagram. That's where I mix the eye of newt, three leeches, the liver of a toad and the toenail of a bat. I boil them until thick and then I drink the potion under a full moon at midnight. What does your coven do, my dear?

Other Tom

The Odious Slattern is now clocking in at 60.1 on Tradesports, and appears to be trajectorizing like a lead balloon.

Bill in AZ

Huck with a foreign policy endorsement? Wouldn't surprise me at all if Soros starts funding him.

Bill in AZ

oh, wait, foreign policy... somehow I read foreign convict... still won't surprise me if Soros funds Huck. Any idiot on the left can beat Huck.

Ann

Huckabee comes off as very personable but for some reason I hearken back to Mayberry RFD and Gomer Pyle. No offense to Jim Neighbor's singing skills.

Posted by: glasater | December 12, 2007 at 05:34 PM

Well someone else agrees with us, glasater:

Gomer Huckabe

centralcal

Other Tom: '...Odious Slattern...trajectorizing like a lead balloon."

This is what I love about JOM and all the commenters. The best damn laughs in the blogosphere!

Porchlight

Ditto centralcal...I was just typing that Other Tom's name for the she devil are killing me...Vile Harridan has been a favorite so far, but Odious Slattern might dislodge it from the number one spot.

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