Hillary - Experience The Inexperience

Pat Healy of the Times (cross-posted at MSNBC?!?) ponders Hillary's "experience".

But during those two terms in the White House, Mrs. Clinton did not hold a security clearance. She did not attend National Security Council meetings. She was not given a copy of the president’s daily intelligence briefing. She did not assert herself on the crises in Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda.

And during one of President Bill Clinton’s major tests on terrorism, whether to bomb Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, Mrs. Clinton was barely speaking to her husband, let alone advising him, as the Lewinsky scandal sizzled.

Comments

[kim]

No worries, mate; Joe Wilson's on her team. See what TSK9 found about him and the Sudan?
========================================

[Jane]

Well now she has 35 years of experience not just the 10 she started out bragging about. Perhaps that counts as the number of years she has been married. I bet that's been an experience.

Funny how the MSM has turned on her.

[BumperStickerist]

Actually, Hillary scared the bejeezus out of the President's senior advisers and the West Wing staff for the better part of eight years ... so she has some experience in that regard.

Maybe she could campaign on that.

-

[PeterUK]

Hillary's part in the Irish Peace Process
All these claims are indicative of a serious personality defect,this girl is out Kerrying Kerry.

[Rick Ballard]

"Funny how the MSM has turned on her."

It's completely understandable based upon Rasmussen's survey of the muddle. A candidate with a 48% strong negative within the "centrist" independents isn't going anywhere.

It was nice of the Times to highlight some of Bubba's foreign policy "achievements":

Cut n' run (in disgrace) in Somalia - advantage Bin Laden.

Stand n' watch in Rwanda - advantage savagery.

Bomb Christian Belgrade - advantage muslims.

Launch camel butt missile strikes to distract attention from Monica's Ministrations - advantage stupidity.

While I learned absolutely nothing from the Times piece, it was a good reminder of reasons why a Clinton in the White House isn't among my "hopes for the future".

[clarice]

Her experience with Bill in the WH makes her the candidate most qualified to head a secret police force.

Seriously, this is the most overrated candidate..glad the NYT has finally caught on to that.

[MayBee]

Wow, you guys are cynical.
I read that article and came away knowing that everything Bill did right, Hillary counseled him to do. And everything he did wrong, Hillary had told him to do the opposite.
And she chose Madeline Albright for Secretary of State.
So I'm voting for Hillary.

[Pauline]

I think the American public needs to base their opinion on Hillary not on her marriage to Bill and its ups and downs. She has my vote on stamina, knowledge and class.

[MayBee]

Actually, this reminds me of something my husband and I were talking about the other day. He's actually a pretty big Bill Clinton fan.
But this idea that Hillary was the face of foreign policy during the Clinton administration is ludicrous. In fact, I (and my husband) imagine that foreign leaders will go to Bill rather than Hillary. They are used to dealing with him. Can you imagine the Chinese and the Saudis and the UAE guys bypassing Bill to listen to Hillary? I can't. They'll go to Bill.

[PeterUK]

"I think the American public needs to base their opinion on Hillary not on her marriage to Bill".

I agree,that would be like basing one's opinion of Mrs Soprano on her husband Tony.

[Other Tom]

Well, the Vile Banshee has crept back up to .64 at Tradesports.

What everyone knows about both Clintons is that they lie incessantly, often lying when there is no real reason to do so. And one thing they lie about with consummate skill is the question of which of them is responsible for exactly which decisions. You can be assured that a Hillary presidency would be an enless four-year carnival of such dissembling.

[Other Tom]

New ARG poll, from CNN:

"Call it an early Christmas gift for Hillary Clinton’s campaign: A new Iowa poll seems to show the New York senator with a stunning double-digit lead over her nearest rival among likely Democratic caucus-goers.

"Clinton and Obama were neck-and-neck in last week’s American Research Group poll. But in the new survey, conducted December 20-23, she leads the Illinois senator by 15 percentage points, 34 to 19 percent. Obama is now in a statistical tie for second place with former North Carolina senator John Edwards, who has 20 percent of the vote."

She wins Iowa and it's over. Let us pray that there is something more than Mike Huckabee standing between her and the Oval Office.

[Neo]

Face it, after the HiliaryCare debacle, the whole idea of 2 for 1 disappeared from the Clinton Administration chatter, as Bill distanced himself from the mess.

[clarice]

OT--I think that poll is absolutely bonkers--given the margin of error for example, Obama could still be ahead. Forget these hamburger helper polls, and have a drink.

[vnjagvet]

Good advice, Clarice. I haven't seen any fundamental reason for that kind of turnaround.

Has anyone else here? Rick? OT? MayBee?

Is it just Bill's genius comment, last week?

Back to the milk punch.

[Other Tom]

I tend to agree that the poll is probably screwy--and I think I recall that ARG has often been an outlier.

But in two minutes it will be past the magic hour of nine a.m., and I will dutifully take Clarice's advice. What the hell, it's the holiday season.

[RichatUF]

Curious that all these Clinton experience stories are showing up now. Here is another one...

graf-

Hillary oversaw the hiring of White House staffers and pressed her husband to fill half the top positions with women. In particular, she insisted he choose a woman as attorney general, which led to the derailed nominations of corporate lawyer Zoe Baird and federal Judge Kimba Wood. The president finally settled on Janet Reno...

I'd like to know if she was the one who wanted all the US Attorneys fired and Bill went along. That might make for a well targeted advertising campaign...

[reliapundit]

isn't there a law against a les Rodham-Clinton serving a THIRD TERM!?

[Rick Ballard]

Vnjagvet,

Here is the ARG poll. We know that 1 poll in 20 is a stinker, we can't always tell why. I would note that ARG shows a drop for Huckabee that is similiar to Hussein's drop and that both are in the 20% range.

A one week, 20% swing is a "dead girl, live boy" type of hit and neither Hussein nor the Huckster had any stories out with that level of impact.

Unless Rasmussen comes in with changed numbers in the 10%+ range I'd call it an outlier and forget it.

[RichatUF]

Rick-

Rasmussen has the Huckster from Hope tied with Romney. The item is dated 19 Dec and survey looks to have been done on the 17th. Haven't seen anything more recent and would be surprised if any surveys would have been done this weekend.

[PeterUK]

"Hillary oversaw the hiring of White House staffers and pressed her husband to fill half the top positions with women."

This certainly puts a question mark over Hillary;s judgment,a bit like staffing Castle Dracula with virgins.

[Other Tom]

Which Clinton came up with Lani Guinier for Asst. A.G. for Civil Rights?

[RichatUF]

OT-

That had to be Hillary!- but get the clips of the weepy Bill cutting her loose and animate the Red Witch into the background puppeteering. We could do that for a lot of Bill's weepy moments.

[clarice]

The ARG poll was done Dec 20-23 when most non-misanthropes were out wassailing.

[MayBee]

The ARG poll was done Dec 20-23 when most non-misanthropes were out wassailing.

And perhaps those home and available to respond had already wassailed for the day.

[RichatUF]

from the Times article-

There were times, though, when Mrs. Clinton did not appear deeply involved in some of Mr. Clinton’s hardest moments on national security. He faced a major one in 1998 — the bombings of the United States Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and subsequently whether to bomb Afghanistan and Sudan.

To get to her left Obama [the only one who could credibly do this] could flog the point that the Clinton's were liers regarding Iraq's ties to terrorism and in WMD development-the 2 reasons provided for the al-Shifa bombing.

I am curious if the DNC has done some internal polling that has shown Obama's numbers collapasing among men because of the Oprah endorsment. Moreover, the Clinton experience articles really are curious-pointing out her "hidden hand", but trying not to focus on her disastrous role regarding Hillary!CARE and leaving open the question of her advice and temperment during the aggressive growth phase of al-Qeada.

[PeterUK]

Surge makes Iraq a fading issue for Iowa Democrats

[clarice]

Richard--there's an interesting article detailing a fight between Hil's advisers with Mandy (Ms Cooper) etc arguing she should go to her "human side" and Penn arguing she should stick with her "I'm more experienced line"--Penn apparently lost the argument and now there are these articles..Coincidence, or further evidence that in Hillaryland Penn's days are numbered?

[bio mom]

Whenever holiday polls come out they are screwy. I think the people who are contacted at home on holidays are not the usual people contacted at other times. I suspect a lot of high school and college students on holiday breaks are answering these polls. Also, ARG polls, according to other sites that predominantly monitor polls, are the most out of whack compared to other polls often.

[PeterUK]

"Human side" Hillary Clinton - Alien?

[clarice]

If I were Hill and came home to find Bill cleaning up the house as she claims, I'd get out the shotgun if you get my drift.

[Rick Ballard]

Jay Cost isn't particularly impressed with the ARG poll. He does a very nice job with caveats - my bet remains that it's an outlier.

I'll bet that the sample skewed heavily to older men.

[Jane]

OT: I just read where the president signed the funding bill without dealing with the earmarks. I'm disappointed.

[PeterUK]

Oh come now Clarice,what is wrong with a housedude shampooing the carpets?

[centralcal]

Hi guys. I promise not to interrupt again, but, Fred Thompson is holding a special fund raising drive at Fred08dotcom and Rick Moran is calling for a blogburst for Fred (over at Redstatedotcom).

I made a donation and watched the ad Fred wants to air in Iowa. I hope some of you will do the same.

Back to your regularly scheduled comments ... (I really do apologize for the interruption, but the discussion of Hillary made me do it!)

[Elliott]

ARG does">http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/">does not seem to have polled on the Iowa caucuses in the last Presidential cycle. Neither that nor the disparities with other polls are evidence ARG is wrong, though I do note that the example of Scott Rasmussen, whose polling was far less accurate 2000 than it has been in subsequent elections, suggests that experience is helpful.

Here are Real Clear Politics' final Iowa and New Hampshire polls and averages for the Democrats in 2004. In the case of New Hampshire, ARG's tracking had the numbers for most candidates about where they finished, but didn't have the order of finish quite right.

[centralcal]

Oh, btw Jane, where did you read about the President signing the funding bill?

[clarice]

Rick the poll never passed my smelll test--glad to see womeone who knows polls inside and out like Jay agrees.

[clarice]

Rick the poll never passed my smell test--glad to see womeone who knows polls inside and out like Jay agrees.

[Jane]

Centracal,

I read it at Fox: the link is under my name.

[clarice]

Jane..read all the way to the end of the article--There's a possibility he may still do something with those earmarks that were granted only in committee and did not make it into legislative language. A number of reputable commentaters seem to think he'd be on sound legal basis to throw those out.

[Sara]

This ought to raise some eyebrows:

George W. Bush and Hillary Clinton top Gallup’s list of people whom Americans most admire.

[centralcal]

Thank you, Jane.

I read it and agree with Clarice, there may still be a chance that Bush will seek avenues through the OMB to ignore some of the earmarks. NOTE, "ignore" is my phrase, not from the article.

[Sara]

OT: I hope all JOMers had a great Christmas and Holiday season. We did something very different for Christmas Eve. My son gave us all a ticket to the Monday Night San Diego Charger football game. We went early and had fun at a gigantic Christmas tailgate party with caroling and great food and lots and lots of good cheer. Plus the Chargers won. Very different from our traditional family Christmas Eve celebrations, but the most fun I've had in many years.

[Other Tom]

Good for you, Sara. My stepson and I watched the game together on big-screen HDTV sitting by the fire with martinis. And we hooted at the hapless, once-proud Broncos with the lout Cutler as their QB.

[Jane]

WEll I hope the President does something altho I'm worried about the "out of sight, out of mind thing".

Other than the war on terror, pork is issue numero uno for me.

[Sara]

Other Tom: We had a very vocal Bronco fan sitting behind us. She kept yelling, "c'mon San Diego, its Christmas, let us score just once." After San Diego brought in their 2nd and 3rd stringers to play in the 3rd and 4th quarters and the Broncos got a field goal, I heard her say, "there is a Santa Claus."

[clarice]

I hope he does, too, Jane.
I also hope that the Reps make a quorom call over the holiday, the Dems can't pull one together and the President makes a raft of interim appointments..And then makes a speech explaining that this partisan shit is interfering with the operation of the govt--that, for example, w/o these appointments the FEC and NLRB can't operate.

[Larry]

Sara, I was at Balboa 12-24-61 when Houston Oilers beat Chargers 10-3 to win the second AFL championship. Remember Ron Mix, an all-time great Charger and H-O-Fer vs. Houston's George Blanda (in only his second or third reincarnation), Billy Cannon and Elbert "Golden Wheels" Dubenion. Guessing maybe 20,000 attendance. Pop and I bought cheap tickets same day or day before. My, how times have changed.

[Larry]

Aww, it wasn't Elbert. It was Charlie Hennigan. My recollector gets afu sometimes.

[vnjagvet]

On the "experience" issue, Hillary!'s supporters, must have suspicions that the NYT's knives are out for her. It will be interesting to see how the coven responds.

Maureen Dowd has been particularly biting in her commentary. It is hard to say who she dislikes most, GWB or the dissembling Yalie duo that ruled Arkansas and the USA in the 90s.

[centralcal]

" also hope that the Reps make a quorom call over the holiday "

Clarice, is that just a "hope" or has there been talk that they might?

[clarice]

Hope.

[Sara]

Larry: You have me beat. In 1961, I was still in high school in Pennsylvania and a diehard Steelers' fan. My first Charger game was 1969, another Charger-Bronco game. We were so broke we couldn't even buy a soda. We were there on free tickets that my husband got as part of his Sailor of the Year package of goodies. As we left the stadium, I put my hand in my jacket pocket and discovered a $20 bill that had gotten stuck in a small hole in the pocket lining. It was like a gift from heaven and we treated ourselves to a Fillipi's pizza after the game.

[RichatUF]

clarice-

The Clinton Experience! or No Joy in Hillville-

this clip caught my eye-

“What I would like people to know about Hillary is what a good person she is,” Rodham says in the spot, as the words “Hillary’s mom lives with her” appear on screen. “She never was envious of anybody — she was helpful. And she’s continued that with her adult life with helping other women. She has empathy for other people’s unfortunate circumstances.”

Wonder what else the tinkergnomes at Minitrue will cook up-

[PeterUK]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to ask Hillary what her response to this would be.Ask all the candidates because as sure as hell one of them is going to have to deal with it.

[clarice]

PUK, this will surely happen shortly after a change in administrations, especially if the Dems win. It is the enemy's way of testing the new guys' mettle. (That is what happened here--by Sept 11, Bush barely had his key positions filled thanks to Gore (and Clinton's) transition shennangins.

Richard--the mom is always the last to know.

[PeterUK]

Interesting that Didn't you get enough of that with King George?

[Rick Ballard]

Peter,

The problem with Col. Bay's analysis is that there is no Comrade Uncle Walter to do a number on the muddle, besides which, American public opinion didn't actually shift until '73-74. The Copperheads have been screeching "failure" to the heavens since D-1 in Afghanistan. If Abu al-Splodeydope wants to give the Tet option a whirl, nothing can stop him. He might want to remember that Dick Nixon was sworn in after Tet and gave North Vietnam tons and tons of presents (airmail, special delivery) as a token of his appreciation.

Had it not been for Watergate, Gen. Giap might never have had time for interviews and memoirs.

[clarice]

Maybe we ought to give her remarks serious consideration---and target those damn women's colleges full of overachievers who are always, it seems, struggling to find their voices.

[PeterUK]

Clarice.
Perhaps it won't happen if the Democrats can surrender fast enough.If AQ doesn't make such a statement as 9/11 it can be glossed over,something "small" like the Cole,the Kerryesque "nuisance" atrocities.

[RichatUF]

PeterUK-

That's easy! Call in the heavy hitters Bill Clinton and Tony Blair and get a peace deal between the Palestinians and Israelis. Bill almost, almost had one...wonder what role Hillary! might have played, aside from installing Albright at State, in the Bill's hunt for peace [a bit like Ahab in that regard]

And speaking about the matter of the whale:

Another question I had about all these Hillary! experience articles. Now they all seem to indicate that she was very influencial and could veto staff and staffing decisions. Did she know that Bill Clinton was bringing in Dick Morris after the 1994 crash-and-burn [which would have been difficult to hide, seeing as how Morris was hidden in the residence] and what was her advice about hiring him and keeping him secret from most of the White House staff.

[Rick Ballard]

"struggling to find their voices."

Clarice,

One might think that mastering the Harpy's Shriek wouldn't require a full four years...

[PeterUK]

Rick,
We are dealing with lunatics,al Qaeda are even worse ,anything can happen.
9/11,in military terms was an insane miscalculation,but in the event it generated a large number of people believing it was an inside job.
Any president who can deliver peace will gain a lot of good will.Look at Tony Blair's surrender in Northern Ireland,earned him enough goodwill to sell us all down the river.
The arsehole could do no wrong for two terms.

[SD]

The Times article is really Sen. Obama's case on Sen. Clinton's experience. It's a real contrast to former Ambassador Joe Wilson's endorsement of Mrs. Clinton's foreign policy credentials.

I have posts about both pieces if anyone is interested...thepoliticalpost.wordpress.com

[PeterUK]

"Bill almost, almost had one...wonder what role Hillary! might have played"

Bill threatened to fire her in like a Shrew's Missile.

[clarice]

9/11 was Sadaam, not some slopeydope and the next attack with be Iran .

[clarice]

**will be Iran***

[Other Tom]

I caught my first Charger games in Balboa Stadium in '62. I had the honor to be present for the final game of the '64 season, which the Chargers designated "Tobin Rote Day" in honor of their ancient quarterback. They presented him with a brief tribute at halftime. The halftime score was 35-7 in favor of the Chiefs, and Rote was one for eighteen passing. During the ceremony he was booed lustily, and I kept thinking "I hope his mother isn't here."

My all-time AFL moment was when the Texans and Oilers were headed for overtime in the championship game. The Texans won the coin toss and their captain, Abner Haynes, elected to kick into the wind.

[hit and run]

Other Tom:
My stepson and I watched the game together on big-screen HDTV sitting by the fire with martinis.

OK, I already took climbing Mt. Everest off my "life list" to make room for eating a Clarice cooked dinner.

I am now contemplating taking cycling from Vancouver to Banff off my "life list" to make room for "having martinis by the fire with Other Tom while watching football on his big-screen HDTV".

[PeterUK]

Rick,
What we are up against is moral defeatism a large number of people do not believe in their culture anymore.

[HA! HA! HA!]

Everyone stays in.

Respect.

Then we go on the hunt.

People really are changing.

Teamwork.

Student Leaders needed!

You have access. Facilitate. Find what's in your heart. Feel your pain. See amazing things! Use what you have to make a difference!! Use your life for someone else!!!!

Maybe some nice music or spice, don't forget to bring up the food. Relax, maybe a rapture.

Anyone order from Best Buy online? I got this furnished suit. What's the return policy? Regift? I'm calling Congress claiming the money!!!!

[clarice]

Hmm, Hit I notice all your shifts are from hard labor to ease and pleasure. You aren't growing up on us are you?

[Sara]

I seem to recall John McCain saying in an interview that their treatment in the Hanoi Hilton vastly improved when Nixon began the intense bombing campaign.

[clarice]

I believe I tracked down Hill's Sunday school teacher, Rosalis Bentzinger of Donnellson, Iowa. Her no is 319-835-3330. I wonder which of you would like to call her and ask how she just happened to be at Hill's appearance, who was the person who signaled to Hill that she was there, and was she in contact with Hill's campaign between their first meeting in April and her last appearance?

[maryrose]

I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday!It just reaffirmed to me how important family is in your life. My sister-in-law"s sister lives in Iowa and says everyone is sick of the candidates at this point!I'm ready to predict the results...
Obama, Edwards, Clinton in that order. Romney, Huckabee, Guiliani or Thompson in Iowa.\
The ARG poll is not to be trusted. After reading Jay Cost I am encouraged.

[clarice]

From your mouth to God's ears, maryrose..esp if Thompson comes in ahead of Giuliani.

This is certainly an anything can happen year.

[SunnyDay]

PUK - read John Bolton's book. He details similar end-around plays in our government. It's fascinating and very well-written.

[vnjagvet]

A great title for a movie:

The Harpy's Shriek: It Was All For the Chillllllldriiiiiiiin.

[hit and run]

Clarice:
I notice all your shifts are from hard labor to ease and pleasure. You aren't growing up on us are you?

Yeah, growing up or growing old.

This was the first time I've been at the house I grew up in for Christmas in a number of years. We went to the church I grew up in for the Christmas Eve service. Poor church is aging and may not make it much longer.

But I did see one of my dearest friends I knew when we were in high school youth group together. To her credit, she is aging much more gracefully than I.

It made me feel old. Not a bad old, mind you, an old that comes with years spent living full and living fast. An old that means looking back on lots of good memories. But an old nonetheless that means a recognition that the duties and obligations of life, ones that are fully embraced and fully enjoyed, mean a redirection of what you aim for...

Climbing? Cycling?

Shoot. I just want to hang with beloved friends. Even if I have to break in to gated communities and/or risk trespassing charges to do so.

[clarice]

Nonsense. My door is always open to you, sweetie.Just give me a warning so we'll not be in dishabille and there'll be food and libations.

[RichatUF]

Obama: warm-blooded, clean, human

Hillary!: cold-blooded, experienced, not-so-human

Is Hillary! going to lose this thing?

[clarice]

That last article reads like a satire of bad journalism--check out the graphs at the end on "Slug", for example. My high school journalism teacher would have failed him for terminal hackism.

[hit and run]

Clarice:
Nonsense. My door is always open to you, sweetie

Whew. If I get thrown out of my in-laws this weekend, you'll be the first person I call.

::smooooooches::

[RichatUF]

clarice-

Steve Hinderhofer, 25, a high school teacher, said he is a blue-state New Yorker who recently moved to Iowa and likes Edwards' ideas but would go with Huckabee if the caucuses were held today.

That is a big endorsment for Huckabee-The Other America's Choice!

[Elliott]

Via Powerline, I came upon Andrew Ferguson's deconstruction of books by Presidential candidates. He highlights various "action steps" from Mike Huckabee's 12 STOPs to Restoring America's Greatness, including this one:

"Watch classic films made before 1968."

He's right about that, but in my book it's still "a simple 'no'" on Huckabee.

[Daddy]

Ah but are you experienced,...
Have you ever been experienced...
Not neccessarily stoned...
But beautiful

[kim]

Beautiful? A simple no because of the simple fact that I simply don't know what you're talking about. A simple yes because of the simple fact that you simply guess what I'm talking about.
=============================

[Jane]

Bhutto has been seriously injured in an attack in Pakistan. She is in surgery.

[Jane]

Bhutto has died in the suicide bombing.

Hold on to your hats.

[Jane]

She was shot in the neck (the suicide bomber was a decoy) she disappeared for 30 minutes after the attack and then went to the hospital and died.

[centralcal]

Yeah, Jane, indeed. I am watching Fox.

One could see this was coming (re:Bhutto).

[kim]

Bhutto was supposed to return to Pakistan to lead the nation to democracy, but she probably doublecrossed Musharaff and threw in with the lawyers. He and the military didn't trust them to withstand the radical Islamists, so she and they were sidelined during the coup. Those are the three main political forces in Pakistan. I've no idea who assassinated her, but more suspect the radical Islamists than the military.
=====================

[Donald]

When do we start to understand that we're dealing with animals here? Beings lacking the ability to reason.

[Rick Ballard]

"Beings lacking the ability to reason."

Unfair and untrue. The shaheed who committed the act were/was compelled by the reason articulated within the belief system which he/they valued more than life. One can't even call the belief system beastial, for no species of which I am aware engages in intraspecies savagery and butchery on such a wholesale and continuous basis.

These are just run of the mill muslims practicing islam - well within the tenets laid down 1400 years ago, unchanged and unchanging. Ms. Bhutto appears to have miscalculated the changes in Pakistan that have occurred since the Saudi funded madrasas have so generously spread the true faith among the population.

[Donald]

I think of them more as rabid pitbulls. Sorry Rick, maybe that's just me.

[Rick Ballard]

Ms. Bhutto would have had a much better chance of survival had she been dealing with rabid pit bulls.

[clarice]

AQ is taking credit.
I'm sorry but I think she was a foolish woman--probably corrupt--who allowed herself to be used. The western press loved her because she could speak their lingo. Had she by some miracle become head of state, she wouldn't have stayed in office long.

[hit and run]

Steyn on Bhutto

[Jane]

That is fascinating Hit. I've long been confused about Pakistan as what is going on there has never quite made sense to me. I was telling my business partner about Bhutto's history, and her return to Pakistan and the problems leading up to today, and I had no idea if I got it right. Turns out for the most part I did, but the confusion is understandable. Steyn's piece gave me some needed perspective.