Kerry's Christmas In Vietnam

How long has this excerpt from Kerry's war diary been hanging around at the Boston Globe?  This is his account of his Christmas in Vietnam; essentially, it is a re-telling of Kerry's "Christmas in Cambodia" story that was seared in his memory, but the geography is right this time and he is in Vietnam:

You are running on one engine to preserve gas because your station is at the mouth of the Co Chien River and there is no outpost to give you fuel and no LSP to (unable to read) with milk and warm food. Today though luck is with POF 44 and her small generator is still running; still capable of warming the hotplate and giving you fried eggs for breakfast. For some reason though you don't feel like fried eggs and so you open a O-ration can that has peanut butter in it -- (unable to read) 11 which is smooth -- and also a can of strawberry preserve and a sandwich satisfies an already deranged stomach.

Today you move to the northern end of the area -- towards Cambodia -- and excitement tingles the nerves that appreciates the new and the unexplored and you enjoy starting the other engine, hearing the deep throb of the diesel engine and the hums as the boat reaches for the step and shoots spray out on both sides as she moves up the river.

...

Ahead lies the APL from which you will refuel and steal a morning meal. Both operations completed you pass from the Navy and again enter the world of beauty that surrounds you as you move up the meandering channel of the main water route to Cambodia. Its daylight now and moving with you are junks and barges and swamps of all sizes and shapes and colors and within each person with a world of his own fears and hopes and aspirations.

...A briefing with the Navy and another refueling and then away again. You have lost half the day just relaxing at Sa Doc, taking in the scene and basking in the security of your thoughts and the memories that today come steadily and quickly.

Again you pull away from a pier and you start out on patrol -- through a rickety drawbridge that pulls only one side up at an angle and that forces you to daringly pas your radar only inches away from destruction and court martials and investigations and when you get through you say the hell with the world and bask in self congratulations and cockiness. Again out into the big river where you can move with Huck Finn and the myriads of rafts that have traveled rivers and where you can again sense the life of the peasants around you.

No snow, no sleighs, no fat jolly Santa Claus on a corner with frosted lips and frozen hands and an outstretched arm that begs for the little more that people have at this time of year. Indeed, there is no familiarity with the date. Endless green and rainbows streaking cloud swept skies; more green and palm bushes swaddling muddy banks with knee deep footprints, soldier and peasant.

...

You head back towards Sa Dec to make your report while transiting the night darkness is broken by tracers flying up out of a Vietnamese outpost that is celebrating Christmas. The bullets pass dangerously near your boat and you think of the stupidity of the whole thing and the ridiculous waste of being shot at by your own allies and so angry you jump on the radio and ask who the hell is shooting at you and inform your seniors that they had better squared away before you return fire. Apologies are quick to (unable to read) but they mean nothing amidst all the chaos and waste.

It's cool now and the evening has closed around you to become full night. The night for once is comforting and you take a coke and some peanut butter and jelly and go up on the roof of the cabin whit your tape recorder and sit for a while, quietly, watching flares float silently through the sky and flashes announce disquieting intent somewhere in the distance. You call down to one of your men and ask him to draft a message to the Admiral in Command of all Naval Forces in Vietnam and also to the Commander of Market Time. IT says "Merry Christmas from the most inland Market Time unit."

Weird.  I don't think I am alone in having missed this - this telling phrase, "the night darkness is broken by tracers flying up out of a Vietnamese outpost", gets no hits other than the Globe on Google.

And Kerry describes a wildly dramatic ambush somewhere upriver, but what he told the Herald in 1979 was

I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas.

That seems to track with the "tracers flying up out of a Vietnamese outpost that is celebrating Christmas" incident above.

I see that the new book about the Swiftees, "To Set The Record Straight", includes a passage from Kerry's journal as the last bit of their chapter on Christmas in Cambodia.  (Footnote 55, ch. 9).

HMM:  That journal is extensively excerpted in my own comments section from Aug 9 2004.  Well, I am reading it as if for the first time.

Comments

[Rick Ballard]

Perhaps a link to Emmett Tyrell's Crybaby Kerry Clock is in order?

[kim]

Bill Whittle Ho.
===============

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Hmm. I was beating this drum back in 2004. Here, and at Beldar's. Just another example of Doug Brinkley not being able to read. Because it's clear that Kerry was patrolling around Sa Dec that night.

[MaxSpeak]

I can't wait to read G. Bush's war memoirs . . .

[Jane]

Yeah, since he won one, and Kerry helped lose one.

[sbw]

"G. Bush's war memoirs . . ."

Snide and pointless remark. Anyone who flew the aircraft GWB flew in and survived was a competent pilot and deserves respect.

[Rick Ballard]

What I see with absolute crystal clarity from this excerpt is the fact that the Navy obviously used defective pyschological screening for would be officers. The sophomoric third person narrative tripe would certainly support the claim that his superior officers were quite happy to sign off on Purple Hearts in order to get him out of sight.

Clarice related a very convincing story concerning Kerry's delight in devising "hero" plays with his sister[s] when he was a young boy. He obviously maintained the mind of a 7 year old while charged with the responsibility for other men's lives in Vietnam and his current petulance underscores the fact that he remains a 7 year old to this day.

It must be the consistency of his lack of character that elicits such contempt among those who endured serving with him for such a short period of time.

[Rickter]

C'mon, this is clearly just a case of us common folks, not being able to see through the fog of nuance.

[MarkD]

Why do we continue to kick this deluded fool? His time came, he was found lacking, and banished from the stage.

Mass. keeps electing him, but they keep electing Teddy as well. That is their business. I live in the state that elected Clinton and Schumer, so I can hardly complain.

[clarice]

Shows that Brinkley is eligible for the Arthur Schlessinger/Doris Kearns Prize for Hagiography.

[Other Tom]

Don't know where, TM, but I clearly remember reading that passage back in 2004. What stuck in my mind was the passage about "the most inland Market Time [Swift Boat] unit." It made me laugh at the time because, while true, it was ludicrously insignificant. The PBR's and the Mobile Riverine Force had been operating routinely from the mouth of the Co Chien all the way to the Cambodian border for well over two years by that time. It was a great adventure for Kerry to go to Sa Dec, because the Swifts had been operating exclusively out in the South China Sea until Adm. Zumwalt brought them up into the delta in November of 1968. At the time Kerry wrote his little bit of drama, there were probably a half-dozen two-boat PBR patrols between him and the border.

I would guess that in late 1967, when I was running patrols on the Co Chien, I stopped in for a beer at the VN Regional Forces oupost at Sa Dec on a half dozen occasions.

Kerry seems to have felt put upon by the lack of hot food. Jesus. I'm sure that at some point somebody must have clued him in to the fact that you could crack a small hole in the lid of a C-ration can (to keep it from exploding) and then setting it on the manifold of one of the diesels for about ten minutes. Delightful! We use to draw straws to see who got the pork and beans, and whoever won felt like he was on top of the world.

Somebody should have told this guy: Real men don't complain.

[PeterUK]

Amazing how Kerry manages to turn a routine patrol into HMS Amethyst in the "Yangtze Incident" Hollywood lost a screenwriter when John F went into politics.

[PeterUK]

OT,
It is obvious why nobody told Kerry about heating the C rations,probably the same reason they told him to wait for waitress service.

[clarice]

HEH

[Bridgap]

Since someone mentioned perpetual motion as a key to time, Kerry is a Peace Corps volunteer writing in a foreign language converted to English and as record.

The you is confusing because it is a foreign language/mind - set and further confusing because you get that security records are recorded in the the other person; The writer proceeded.......... and if your taking a record and converting it into local foreign thinking and language you might end up with: The writer proceeded...........noticing large sun beautiful was on the crew seasoned from the the light very strong.

[kim]

Hah, hah, MinThink; Bush changed and Kerry didn't.
================================

[kim]

I agree with Rick. The narrator was immature and clumsy(also psychotic, but that's another story), but the outline of the future man is clear.

Integrity, integrity, integrity.
=================

[Other Tom]

There's another issue in this Cambodia flap that I don't think has gotten a lot of attention.

Kerry's whole premise was that he was in Camodia while Nixon was "telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia." Lots of people have noted that Nixon wasn't even president in December of 1968. But what I think has been overlooked is that the presence or absence of US forces in Cambodia never even became an issue until the Spring of 1970 (when Kerry was long gone). Nixon sent troops across the border on May 1, and didn't disclose that fact to the public until May 10. Thus arose the whole furor about "Nixon's secret invasion." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone besides Kerry had ever claimed that Nixon falsely told the public that troops weren't in Cambodia--the whole uproar was about his failure to disclose the invasion until ten days after it occurred.

Kerry never made his claim until he did so on the Senate floor in 1986. I'm quite certain that he was simply misremembering what the nature of Nixon's "deception" was. And as he had done so many times, Kerry falsely placed himself at the center of events that he remembered, or had heard about. On this occasion, his memory about what Nixon had done was faulty, and that led him to tell an outright lie about what he himself had done.

[kim]

Note B, at 10:49 for excellent exposition of 'another story'.
================================

[clarice]

OT, I can't place it, but I seem to recall a report that Kerry had mentioned Christmas in Cambodia on an earlier occasion. If so, that would mean he was more delusionary than simply in error.

[kim]

Another Munchausen story, OT.
====================

[kim]

It is as good a metric of the delusion of the left that they defend Kerry, that they defend Mann. What is up with that?
==============================

[clarice]

Yes,OT,"In 1979 Kerry wrote a letter to the Boston Herald in which he said, "I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas."

In 1986 Kerry gave a speech in the Senate in which he said he spent Christmas Day of 1968 "sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia."

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:v0jvfDuPv9wJ:www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_08/004487.php+Kerry+first+mention+of+Christmas+in+Cambodia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us>Christmas in his head

What's interesting is that in 1986 with all those vaunted fact checkers no hourno called him on the obvious inconsistency.
Michael Ledeen calls Kerry nuts per this article. I second the notion.

[Fanseason]

Writer noting that writing national for good hears local dealer time maintaining good fucking for dead female shoulder parts victory in not hearing thing buy eye for shit kill slow season for good gene not police family as traded for other minister Bhutto.

Writer received oil feedback per barrel as coversion to other than not oil minute walkerspring cable not #1 street punk ready.

[Jane]

Sheesh - who talks like that?

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Here's the JOM first sighting of Kerry's diary in the Boston Globe; August 9, 2004.

[fanseason]

Since Kerry talked in 1992. The CIA insertions were not dem leader brother? Travellers first sighting? Like fucking disease not flesh rubber maid bot no brain?

[clarice]

Man, he is the worst writer,isn't he? Tell me again that Adam Walinsky didn't author his stuff before the Fullbright committee..........."cascading" eyelids, "conglomeration of noises"...barf

[Sue]

And as he had done so many times, Kerry falsely placed himself at the center of events that he remembered, or had heard about.

Wow. A real life Forrest Gump.

[PeterUK]

Fanseason,
Urgent! Please call home, you need re-chipping.

[Other Tom]

You're right, Clarice--I simply forgot. The authors of "To Set The Record Straight" make it pretty clear that the 1979 Boston Herald article was the first time he asserted that he had been in Cambodia, and on that occasion he also dreamed up the idea that "President [sic] Nixon claimed there were no American troops there."

That article was actually a movie review of "Apocalypse Now." He saw Martin Sheen going upriver in a PBR, and presto!--John Kerry himself was there, an eyewitness to history. ("On more than one occasion I, like Martin Sheen, took my patrol boat into Cambodia.")

Note that when he was ultimately caught in the lie, he was reduced to having his spokesman claim that he had been pursuing the enemy and may have "inadvertently" crossed into Cambodia. That is a far cry from his earlier assertion that "we were told, 'Just go up there and do your patrol.' Everybody was over there. Nobody thought twice about it."

He was lying.

[fanseason]

Phonehome is not Jesus, but okay for bot human brain maid rubbers. Congolomeration fucking spoon out clue.

[clarice]

Thank you,PUK.

[PeterUK]

"I don't think anyone besides Kerry had ever claimed that Nixon falsely told the public that troops weren't in Cambodia--the whole uproar was about his failure to disclose the invasion until ten days after it occurred."

Yes,obviously better to announce it publicly and get more troops killed.Sounds like Democrat surrender move number one.

[kim]

Hoohaw, the Pogo bit says a lot.
====================

[kim]

I wanna see the pix this fabulist took.
======================

[clarice]

Yes, Pogo does, doesn't it?
Man should not have passed any reasonable psych exam..

[Latex Lord]

fanseason

You are going to Hell for revealing this,you were sworn to secrecy.

[kim]

Well, C, I'd guess from the warm skin on cold leather that he never did enough littering in his young life.
============================

[Neo]

Wow!
Somebody make this guy the President of the United States for goosh sakes.

[fanseason]

Sware? La Tex fuck lord.

[clarice]

Warm skin on cold leather? He wore shorts in Mass. in winter?

[kim]

That's right, Neo; but for the Swifties. Perilous, parlous, times.
=========================

[fanseason]

PUK exam pass fuck?

[Sue]

Totally off topic, but our firm needs an attorney that practices family law in the Roanoke Virginia area. Can anyone recommend one?

[Neo]

This doesn't paint a good picture for Gore's reality.

[narciso]

So he was not ferrying weapons to the Khmer Rou. . .Serai. This is of a par with his throwing away his own metals,(not) allowing the slandering all his veteran comrades by
not vetting the 'Winter Soldier' testimony.
Allowing the conspiracy minded Christics (the truthers/Move On) of the day to pollute
the media atmosphere; slandering Felix Rodriguez and Gustavo Villoldo (the last got
close enough to Che's to take a souvenir. Let's not forget echoing the Salafi/Baathist
propaganda 'terrorizing Iraqi women and children' and ridiculing the intelligence and committment of soldiers like my brother.
I know the DNC could sink lower, (hey they promoted Dean to DNC chair, right) but not much lower, Mike Gravel isn't going anywhere.

[005]

Yes, but CIA scares away lucifer eye killer Clinton.

006 die good.

[Der Hahn]

Who cares when Nixon invaded Cambodia, I wanna know when Buddhists started celebrating Christmas.

[Rickter]

Gravel, at least, tells us who he is. Which insures he's not going anywhere.

[kim]

French colony, muchos Catolicos. There was a Jesuit long ago who translated the Chinese pantheon into the Catholic tradition. His work was rejected by the Vatican. Had they not feared satanic influence, China would be Catholic today.
=========================

[PMII]

I honestly wonder if he believes anything he says?

[Jenson]

Gavel convinced China Satan is bad and they passed?

[Other Tom]

In 1968 about fifteen percent of the population of South Vietnam was Roman Catholic. In the delta provinces up adjacent to the border there were a lot of adherents to something called Cao Dai, which as I recall was a sect, and which was not likely to celebrate Christmas.

[Topsecretk9]

Sorry OT - but Powerline has a response to some of their confusion from Philip Zelikow

So we posed, in writing, two lengthy sets of questions in October 2003. The second of these, the one I sent directly to the CIA general counsel, requested any information that the CIA had that was responsive to numerous questions about the context of the interrogations, how they were conducted, the demeanor of the detainees, and so on. The report you have has clauses describing the topic headings in my memorandum, and there were various questions posed underneath each of these headings.

Our disappointment with the responses to those sets of questions then led us to the conclusion that we had no option, if we were to find answers to these questions, except to question the detainees ourselves, and the interrogators too, in at least the cases of the seven detainees most important to our investigation (which included Abu Zubaydah). The report to Kean and Hamilton describes what then occurred.

I have been careful not to accuse anyone of committing crimes. But it is important to understand that, under the applicable federal law, this is not a parlor game of "twenty questions." Under the applicable federal criminal law, our written and very detailed requests established certain issues as being material to our investigation. Officials were obliged by law to provide any responsive information in their possession (or withhold with a claim of privilege) and they were obligated not to conceal, knowingly, any fact related to such material issues. In addition to the various discussions at staff levels, Lee Hamilton pointedly reminded DCI Tenet and his chief aides of the breadth of their obligation at a meeting, one occasioned by these very issues, on December 23, 2003.

The CIA briefed and presented the actual tapes to Porter Goss, Pat Roberts (IIRC) Nancy Pelosi, and Bob Graham Nov. 2002...Rockefeller and Harmon were aware of them by Feb 2003. So a bunch of Dems that were for the interrogations were aware where the 9-11 commission was not? The Pres said he does not recollect even being told of the existence of the tapes much like the 9-11 commish.

via the Times a few days ago and My Speculation is looking more and more likely

Yet agency officials decided to float the idea of eliminating the tapes on Capitol Hill, hoping for political cover. In February 2003, Mr. Muller told members of the House and Senate oversight committees about the C.I.A’s interest in destroying the tapes for security reasons.

Well, they didn't get cover from the Hawks. What do you bet this is the investigation that reveals how rogue and the war CIA was waging against Bush with Dems in Congress?

[clarice]

humph--I do not recall one significant thing I ever learned from an independent prosecution. Does anyone?

They all seem to get balled up in insignificant side shows.

[kim]

Breakin' Rocks in the Hot Sun.
===================

[Sara]

Emmett Tyrrell: Adieu, Crybaby Kerry Clock

Here is just a taste, read it all:

WASHINGTON -- James Taranto, The Wall Street Journal's resident anthropologist, put it perfectly when he described Sen. Jean-Francois Kerry as "a comic perpetual motion machine." And as such, the junior senator from Massachusetts provides an invaluable service to us. He provokes us to laugh about wholesome excess -- not the ribald mishaps of a Sen. Larry Craig or, if your memory is well-tuned, of Rep. Barney Frank. The Hon. Kerry -- with his ponderous gravitas, his implausible presumptions to achievements in the arts, in athletics and, who knows, perhaps in ballet -- is the reductio ad absurdum of the modern American politician's colossal claims to greatness in all the departments of human endeavor.

Sen. Kerry is a confirmed C student -- confirmed so by inquiring journalists after he tried to present himself as summa cum laude in comparison with his Republican opponent in 2004, President George W. Bush. President Bush never has claimed to be anything but a C student; though, as it turns out, his Yale grade-point average was slightly better than that of his fellow Yalie Jean-Francois. We know this because The Boston Globe eventually laid hands on Kerry's Yale transcript. Kerry had refused to release the transcript for years. Nonetheless he boasted of his intellect and complexity. Similarly, he boasted of his war record after exaggerating it and claiming to have witnessed American atrocities. It is this shamelessness combined with his obvious mediocrity that gets him into the hilarious fixes that have distinguished his career.

[MaxSpeak]

If only Kerry had stayed Stateside, getting drunk and chasing skirt, then he would have assembled a glorious, heroic war record truly deserving of the admiration of this august conclave, in keeping with the entitlement of his birthright.

[GMax]

For your "if only" comment. Hell yeah, run him again. I am sure the American people will like him better the second time around. ( Of course that might make him a two time loser, but heck he already is a loser so what a few modifying adjectives?)

[Cecil Turner]

If only Kerry had stayed Stateside, getting drunk and chasing skirt . . .

Or perhaps jetted off to merry olde England after signing up for ROTC? That's what's known as a "tu quoque" fallacy, by the way. Dem partisans' latter-day discovery of their patriotism in support of John Kerry's puffed-up war stories--after eight years of claiming Clinton's draft-dodging was a non-issue--does not impress. And that would be so even if one accepted the risible claim that GWB's creditable TANG service was equivalent to draft-dodging.

[Sue]

Fightin' a losin' battle, Cecil. Clinton didn't take us to war, yada, yada, yada. They don't count Kosovo, etc., because it is sanctioned by the UN. Anytime the UN is involved, it is a good thing. Even when rape and murder ensue, I suppose.

[Topsecretk9]

Still OT

Scott Muller

``Even if the videotape does not constitute an official record that must be preserved under the law, the videotape would be the best proof that the written record is accurate, if such record is called into question in the future,'' Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., wrote in a Feb. 10, 2003 letter to then-CIA general counsel Scott Muller. ``The fact of destruction would reflect badly on the agency.''

Harman's office released the declassified letter on Thursday..

...In his response to Harman's letter, Muller did not address her concerns about destroying the tapes. Instead, he reassured her that the interrogation techniques used were legal. And he added: ``I think it would be fair to assume that policy as well as legal matters have been addressed within the Executive Branch.''

I knew that name was familiar...dug this up a while ago

[Other Tom]

Clarice, I think the press may be getting it wrong in describing this guy as a an "independent prosecutor" or "special counsel" or whatever terms they are using. I think he is simply an Asst. U.S. Attorney from another district who has been temporarily assigned to the Eastern District of Va. because that office had some sort of prior involvement that might become an issue in the case.

[Cecil Turner]

Fightin' a losin' battle, Cecil. Clinton didn't take us to war, yada, yada, yada.

Yeah, I know, and things like blowing up aspirin factories doesn't count. (And Congress doesn't declare war, the President does, along with a bunch of other faulty premises.) You can't argue with that sort of logic, but pointing up the fallacies is entertaining.

[Topsecretk9]

OT

You are correct.

[Sue]

You can't argue with that sort of logic, but pointing up the fallacies is entertaining.

It used to be. Now it is just frustrating.

[clarice]

Thnx for that tip,OT. I do so hope no one willingly cooperates, everyone takes the Fifth and Congress gets the finger it deserves for playing these games.

[Soylent Red]

The sophomoric third person narrative

Sheesh - who talks like that?

HFS. When I read that I immediately thought to myself, "This guy is ghostwriting his own biography."

Which led me to further reflect...

Isn't it interesting how a lot of libs seem very interested in "dramatizing" their lives? It seems to me that a lot of the current trends in society as a whole, particularly in popular culture, have capitalized on the notion that everyone's life is suitable material for dramatization.

It's very difficult to specifically quantify, but I get the feeling from reading this narrative that it is very similar to what is going through the heads of some of our favorite lefties, and probably a good portion of the fundamentally narcissistic Baby Boom generation. Everybody is the star of their own internal after school special.

Then again, thinking like this is one thing. Actually putting pen to paper in this voice, and then allowing it to be published is a whole special breed of self centered a-hole.

[mockmook]

Boy, Kerry sounds Beauchampian.

"The bullets pass dangerously near your boat and you think of the stupidity of the whole thing and the ridiculous waste of being shot at by your own allies and so angry you jump on the radio and ask who the hell is shooting at you and inform your seniors that they had better squared away before you return fire. Apologies are quick to (unable to read) but they mean nothing amidst all the chaos and waste."

I'm not a military man, so I'm wondering if this sounds credible? How are your seniors going to help? How likely is it that they apologize for friendly Viet fire?

"While you sit in the river and rearm the smaller boats beside you receive twenty rounds of sniper fire from the bank on the other side but it falls short of the boat and so you don't give a damn."

So, you have no concern that the VC might raise their aim point a few degrees and hit you?

[Sara]

It is the victim mentality of today's society, Soylent. Everyone vying to be more of a victim than the next guy. Tragedy and scandal, scandal and tragedy. My childhood was worse than yours, my boss harrasses worse than yours, my spouse beats me more often than yours, my father molested me more often than yours, and on and on and on.

[Other Tom]

Mockmook, I think this was probably the fantasist Kerry's first encounter with a common phenomenon along those rivers and canals. The friendlies in the outposts would fire off a lot of ammo into the air at the drop of a hat, whether it was some kind of feast, or holiday, or a birthday party or whatever. At night, with tracer rounds involved, it could be difficult to determine whether it was coming your way or not. I suspect that the "apologies" he's talking about would have come from the local militia guys who were doing it.

And there's no way his seniors could have done anything about it. People up the chain of command from Kerry had no means of communicating with those outposts, and were a long way away. It's just more garbage from the Drama Queen.

[Jane]

the fundamentally narcissistic Baby Boom generation.

I don't disagree with your characterization, but I warn you that narcissism is one of those traits that is passed down thru generations.

[Soylent Red]

No slight intended Jane, if you are a Boomer.

And I agree with you about it being passed down to subsequent generations. In fact, I think it becomes amplified with each passing generation.

But, IMO, the Boomers were the first to raise self-esteem and individuality over norms and the common good.

[Sara]

This is just my impression Jane, but at least the Boomers, at least the older ones, were grounded by parents who had lived thru the "Great Depression" and tended to be very careful with their money. We, in turn, spoiled our children badly, mostly because we had more money to spend, had never really faced a true financial crisis or had to sacrifice for the greater good and so the next generation became very much one of instant gratification. Also, my Mother used to say that we handed over teaching our children to minimum wage day care workers who shared little in common with our own values, then we paid bribed our children off out of our guilt.

[Rick Ballard]

Soylent,

There's an element of fantasy involved that might make narcissism slightly imprecise. Bubba is a true narcissist but Kerry (and Gore) lean toward something closer to OT's "drama queen". Think of Kerry dressing up for his Genghis Khan speech - no different than his play acting as a child. The self centeredness is narcissistic but there's another ingredient, the name of which I cannot say.

[Topsecretk9]

Clarice

From that old link i left that mentioned Comey etc.

Scott Muller had caused a stir by ruling that CIA agents could not join with the military in the interrogation of Iraqi prisoners.

Isn't this exactly what Lebanese double agent Prouty was recruited for and did for the CIA - sent to Iraq to interrogate Iraqi detainees?

[clarice]

Yes. Presumably she did it without military interrogators being there.

[Soylent Red]

The self centeredness is narcissistic but there's another ingredient, the name of which I cannot say.

That's what I mean Rick. It's difficult to identify what is going on, only that something is twitching my line.

Something is definitely going on with Kerry and many others like him, both in and out of politics. Kerry just serves as an archetype.

[bgates]

Boy, Kerry sounds Beauchampian.
Another morning starts with unusual cries of delight from the mess hall. You enter and see a crowd of GIs taunting a young Doris Day lookalike whose face has been seared - seared - with napalm. Your natural instinct is to be a leader of men, and tame the base nature of those who lack your moral and physical stature, but you're so worn down by the heat, the bugs, the 200 hours you've spent in country, this whole stinking war (plus seeing tears collect in a little fold in the scar tissue is so gross it's kinda funny), you join in the laughter.

The jeering continues as the woman runs towards the exit, but stops when a grunt shoots her in the head. You tell yourself this is going too far, and you should really see about getting someone to write that guy up, when you see the spent cartridge: it's hexagonal. That means it comes from a Colt .45 - and those are only used by Company men. "We need you," says the spook.

[Soylent Red]

You enter and see a crowd of GIs taunting a young Doris Day lookalike whose face has been seared - seared - with napalm.

Brilliant.

[Rick Ballard]

Bgates,

Bravo.

[bgates]

Hey, thanks.

You wonder what the mission will be. Upriver? Cambodia? "Burma," says the agent. "Christian aid workers have gone missing". You wonder how the government can justify expanding operations into another country when you just saw President Ford on tv announcing the evacuation of the embassy in Saigon.
Saigon...shit; I'm still only in Saigon.
"What?" asks the spook. You didn't realize you had said that out loud. You tell him to mind his own business, and head out to his boat.
The CIA boat, like the CIA itself, is a leaky wreck that only gets worse the closer you look at it. Aft is a sign saying 'poop deck' that's actually stuck in a 1m-high pile of poop. Fore are the cut off limbs and blown up bodies of what used to be chickens. You want to scold the agents on their poor seamanship, comparing the condition of their boat to...oh, some ancient barbarian who had never even seen a boat owing to living in a desert. But you're not sure how to pronounce the only barbarian whose name comes to mind, so you drop it and ask where they got the chickens. The skipper grins.

[Cecil Turner]

. . . when you see the spent cartridge: it's hexagonal . . .

[snortle] Heh. Nicely done, thanks.

[bgates]

Typing this stuff is a lot more fun than reading about how well Huck is doing in the other thread....

You thought your crew pushed the limits of a boat's capabilities, but the Virginia Farm boys show you some new tricks. They point the boat at a chicken coop on the riverbank and gun the engine, turning only when it seems to late to avoid grounding the craft; the net effect is to swing the rear of the boat in an arc over the shoreline, neatly slicing chickens in half with the propeller before splashing down back in the inky wetness where boats, properly speaking, belong. Unlike America's policy in Indochina, these chickens won't be coming home to roost.
You ask the chief how long until you reach Burma.
"We're going to Laos," he replies tersely.
"Why'd you say Burma?"
"I panicked."
You figure that's for the best, since it turns out Burma is a thousand miles by boat from Vietnam.

NOTE: As I look back on the events now, I recollect some additional details about the scarred young woman we all laughed at on the base: that was in Honolulu, she hadn't been scarred she had spilled some tapioca pudding on her lapel, and I was the only one who laughed, at which point she beat me with her hat for several minutes until restrained.

I still have the hat.

[clarice]

bgates , you're on a roll. Haven't laughed so hard since our last Friday night live series.

[BR]

Thanks for the link to Bill Whittle's site, Kim. Just finished reading the great 2-part article! Fluidity - intelligent force, wow!

[Antimedia]

You should read the article which references the journal entry that you cite. found here.

"In any case, Kerry said he was appalled that the Navy's ''free fire zone'' policy put civilians at such high risk. So, on Jan. 22, 1969, Kerry and several dozen fellow skippers and officers traveled to Saigon to complain about the policy in an extraordinary meeting with Zumwalt and the overall commander of the war, General Creighton W. Abrams Jr. ''We were fighting the [free fire] policy very, very hard, to the point that many of the members were refusing to carry out orders on some of their missions, to the point where crews were starting to mutiny, [to] say, `I would not go back in the rivers again,''' Kerry recalled during a 1971 television appearance on the Dick Cavett Show."

So he said on the Dick Cavett show. But Kerry also needed to be the intrepid hero, venturing into danger and displaying great bravery. So.....

"On Feb. 20, 1969, Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh. According to a previously unreported Navy report on the battle, a two-boat patrol spotted three men on a riverbank who were wearing black pajamas and running and engaged them in a firefight. While not criticizing this engagement, the Navy report did challenge the decision of unnamed skippers to fire at other 'targets of opportunity' in the area.

'Area seemed extremely prosperous and open to psyops action, minimum number of defensive and no offensive bunkers detected,' the report said. The naval official who wrote the report concluded: 'Future missions in this area should be oriented toward psyops rather than destruction.'

The destruction included 40 sampans, 10 hut-style hootches, three bunkers, and 5,000 pounds of rice. The crews from two swift boats had expended more than 14,000 rounds of.50-caliber ammunition. No enemy casualties were reported."

Now think about this. We know that Kerry was wounded because he was too close to a grenade that was used to blow up a pile of rice.

But here we find out that two boats, his being one of them, expending 14,000 rounds of .50 cal ammo!! without killing a single enemy. In the process they shot up 40 sampans, 10 hootches, 3 bunkers and 5000 pounds of rice.

This from the guy who only days earlier was personally lobbying Zumwalt AND Abrams to rescind the free fire zone policy - to the point that they were mutinous and refusing to carry out orders.

Talk about nuance!

[liontooth]

So, on Jan. 22, 1969, Kerry and several dozen fellow skippers and officers traveled to Saigon to complain about the policy in an extraordinary meeting with Zumwalt and the overall commander of the war, General Creighton W. Abrams Jr.

I don't remember reading this before. So, this meeting has been verified as having happened?

[kim]

Ooh, somebody's gonna have fun writing the definitive biography on John Kerry.
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[Antimedia]

liontooth, from my recollection (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) the meeting did take place, but Kerry totally mischaracterized it. The purpose of the meeting was to announce the new strategy of going up into the rivers and canals and taking the fight to the enemy instead of only patrolling along the coasts of Vietnam and the deltas of the rivers.

According to other officers who attended, there was no discussion of free fire zones. Furthermore, free fire zones only existed in areas where there was no known civilian population, something that would not be true at all of the areas that Swift boats patrolled routinely.

[Cecil Turner]

Furthermore, free fire zones only existed in areas where there was no known civilian population . . .

I'm not sure how the zones were administered in VN, but I suspect this is not true. In any case, it isn't the meaning of an FFA. A free-fire zone merely means there are no friendlies present, and thus you do not have to coordinate with higher headquarters (to comply with the general rule to see if there are any friendlies present) before shooting. It does not mean you have the right to shoot women and children, inflict atrocities on the civlian populace, or commit any other sort of war crime.

Kerry's (and other war protesters') claims that that's the purpose of an FFA either indicates ignorance or is a conscious attempt to portray US military types as war criminals. (And I think this is an exception to the old "never attribute to malice" adage.)

[liontooth]

Thanks AntiMedia. I figured as much. It seems to me that Kerry should have no problem proving his claim that at least 24 'skippers' were at this meeting and that its purpose was to discuss,
"...to the point that many of the members were refusing to carry out orders on some of their missions, to the point where crews were starting to mutiny, [to] say,",

Unless mutinies were a dime a dozen in the Riverine Force in January 1969 and it was simply no big deal.

[Antimedia]

Cecil, the literal meaning of an FFZ was that you didn't have to coordinate with headquarters before engaging the enemy or before deciding what sort of force to bring to bear. So, for example, you can call in CAS or artillery without having to first get permission.

In practice, civilians were frequently relocated before an FFZ was declared. After that, the ROE still applied. An FFZ was not a ticket to shoot anything that moved.

[kim]

I wonder what 14,000 rounds of '50 calibre ammo weighs. I believe his testimony about Genghis Khan was projection. Fire discipline was a problem for Kerry.
===============================

[Antimedia]

14,000 rounds of .50 cal ammo weighs about 1500 pounds. At its maximum firing rate, it would take about 25 minutes to expend that much ammo from one gun - but the Swift boats had two .50 cal guns in the tub, so two boats would have four guns and could expend that kind of firepower in about six or seven minutes of firing. The ammo cans held 500 to 600 rounds, and each boat usually carried about 25,000 rounds of ammunition.

[Cecil Turner]

Cecil, the literal meaning of an FFZ was that you didn't have to coordinate with headquarters before engaging the enemy or before deciding what sort of force to bring to bear.

Yes, and that hasn't changed in decades. (Nitpick: the technical term is "free fire area", abbreviated FFA.) And the practical requirement is for no friendly forces to be present (thus not requiring coordination).

But the anti-war types have been using that (and still are) to imply that an FFA is a war crime (because, you know, it sounds bad). And my only winge is with letting them get away with it in casual conversation and pretending their nonsense is the actual meaning by repetition (e.g., that wiki entry).