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January 15, 2008



Obama: We don't have an energy policy, that's why these funds can come in. No investment in alternative fuels by this administration. Subprime lending mess because administration doesn't believe in oversight. I proposed regulations that would have stopped some of this stuff, like more transparency on teaser rates. We have best financial markets but people need to trust them. More transparency.

OK, IIRC it was Bill Clinton who forced them to loosen the lending regs, am I right?

How surreal with Hill and her answer too.

hit and run

Human Events just endorsed Fred, so this is to be taken with as much salt as you can fathom...but...

from Geraghty:

Jeb Babbin: "It's NO-mentum." He calls Romney's key to victory "a Kruschev-style five year plan for Detroit."

JM Hanes

Hillary sounds majorly hyped. Wow. Black and Brown people! Suddenly realized she'd forgotten the Yellow people, and wanting to be subtle, quickly mentioned Asians.

hit and run

Nobody suggested drinking on "corporation"? Or did you not want to lose consciousness too quickly?

I'm not watching the debate, and I got tired of going downstairs after one beer at a time, so I brought 3 up with me on the last trip.


Email: Capital gains make up my income. Will you raise taxes?

Obama: Make sure that middle income people are protected. Warren Buffett shouldn't be paying less than his secretary. That has to change. Tax relief for those under $75,000. Lower payroll taxes, not taxing social security. Bubble early in decade because of income inequality. Middle class will spend the money and spur growth.

Email: Long term effects of interest rate freeze?

Clinton: Short term, medium, long term goals. Fed cutting rates to spur economy. But peoples mortgage rates still going up. My plan would bring mortgage rates in line with Fed policy. $30 billion foreclosure fund. Property tax receipts down at local level. Give money to people who can't pay energy bill. More money for unemployed. $5 billion for green collar jobs. Tax rebates for the middle class.


Don't worry - Barack opposed all the bankruptcy bills. The banks are bad, the credit cards are bad, no one should be forced to address their own financial situation, the government should do it for them. Get special interests out - because I've already got mine. Give people money - we will just print it and hand it out. The American dream for everyone, with no responsibility, and no work!!!

Barack I'm gonna exempt middle income people from capital gains tax, and tax Warren Buffet more than his secretary. I'll change the tax code and give money away. And that will make the economy grow.

Hillary: What are the long term effects of freezing interest rates on the economy. She ignores the question. Says it will stabalize the housing market, and stimulate economic growth - still ignores the question. She will give money to people for fuel and more unemployment money. I guess this will rid us of any problems.

hit and run


Uncommitmum [Mark Steyn]

Kathryn, I think it's terrible, after his terrific performance against Hillary in Michigan, to exclude this guy Uncommited from the Democratic debate. I'll bet right now Bill and Hill and co are trying to figure out how to play the commitment card against him. Go, Unc!


Obama is yammering about Buffett paying a lower tax rate than his secretary. Bother-more billionaires for dems.

HEY IF YOU DON'T PAY ENOUGH IN TAXES CHECK HERE!!!! 2007 looks a bit light, they only took in about 2.7 million.

JM Hanes

Don't you know Dem voters are just lovin' all this wonky economy stuff. Ooh, Hill tries a chuckle, it gets stuck in her throat cause she tried to smile at the same time.

Rick Ballard

¡Viva Uncommitted!


JM Hanes,

Those big bad corporations that hire people, yeah, Drink if you are only part sailor!


Ooh, Hill tries a chuckle, it gets stuck in her throat cause she tried to smile at the same time.

Conjured up a vision of a Biden teeth flash for some reason.

Carry on.


Obama is yammering about Buffett paying a lower tax rate than his secretary. Bother-more billionaires for dems.

I like the way it sounds like he's going to target people like Buffet by not giving tax relief to those making more than $75,000.
That's about what Buffet makes, right?

JM Hanes

Hillary wants Obama to join her in a legislative end run around executive power.

Let the changing of goal posts on Iraq commence!


Williams: There is a time limit. Candidate questions.

Edwards: Campaign finance. Lots of money raised by everyone. We all want to do something about healthcare, Hillary had raised most money from health care companies until Barack passed her. Do these companies expect something?

Obama: I don't take money from lobbyists. I'm happy to take money from employees of these companies who are inspired by my message of change. I have most small donors. I'm the only one who's taken away power of lobbyists with my bundler transparency legislation. I would like public financing of campaigns. Need to make progress against lobbyists.

Clinton: I ask Obama to join me. Bush continues to stay stubborn in Iraq. He says he can enter into unilateral agreement to keep US in Iraq. I have legislation that requires Bush to go to congress to get permanent bases, etc. approved. Will you cosponsor my legislation.

Obama: We can work on this Hillary. We have unity. Bush can't tie hands of next president. I've opposed war, have plan to get troops out by 2009. Iraqi minister says we'll be there to 2018. Spending $9 billion per month. Hotel in Kabul blown up. I'll tell joint chiefs to get our troops out.

Williams: Join Obama in getting troops out in 2009?

Clinton: Yes, I'm on record.

Edwards: I'm more agressive.


Okay, I took a dinner break. Trying to catch up on the thread here. Tops - just like my name says Central California. Smack dab pretty much in the center of the state - semi-arid desert (also known as farm land all around me - or at least is used to be (snark) lots of subdivisions now. oops Fred's on Fox.

hit and run

¡Sin compromiso!

JM Hanes

John Edwards wants to tie his own hands as President.


JM Hanes-

Nobody suggested drinking on "corporation"? Or did you not want to lose consciousness too quickly?

I can't have a hangover.

The Red Witch is yammering on about the base agreement and making sure the President has his hands cuffed. Is she actually stupid-or have I just had too much to drink tonight.

"Troops out in 2009...look at Afghanistan a bombing...failure..." This is what passes for reality based...they are taking the pledge...NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Rick Ballard

I'll surrender first!

No, I will!!

No, I surrendered yesterday - not just that but I awarded our AQ allies basing rights in Baghdad!


Cent - duh me.


Kos influence record still sucks

Despite urging from some activists like Markos Moulitsas that Michigan Democrats vote for Mitt Romney over John McCain, CNN exit polling indicates the Arizona Republican won the liberal vote.

McCain captured 41 percent of Democrats who voted in the Republican primary, 10 points more than Romney. Mike Huckabee meanwhile, only captured 14 percent of Democrats.

Though the Democratic primary race was rendered essentially meaningless after party sanctions, few Democrats decided to vote in the Republican primary — according to the exit polling, Democrats only constituted 7 percent of the vote in that contest.

JM Hanes

No permanent bases from Obama too. Jeez talk about campaign promises that are dangerous as well as stooopid. Forget about tying yourselves up guys, just go ahead and handcuff yourselves to the bed.


I can't quite understand the lightening rod of having a deployment in Iraq and it has to end ASAP, but we have had soliders stationed in SK for over 50 years.

Combat troops+bases in Iraq=occupation

RRF in Kuwait=good policy


Russert: Troops out by end of first term? You didn't say that at another debate.

Obama; No permanent bases. End war and combat missions. Have to protect Americans there. Might have to strike Al Qaeda. Not war though, even if we have a few troops there.

Clinton: Agree with Obama and Edwards. Not just George Bush, Republican candidates are saying troops can be there for a long time.

Edwards: Have to have troops there to protect embassy, dishonest to say otherwise. All combat troops out.

Obama: Starts to ask Edwards question, but takes it back. What is Edwards going to do if there are terrorists in Iraq?

Edwards; Quick reaction force in Kuwait. No combat troops in Iraq, that would continue the occupation.

Obama: Distinction without a difference. Could have strike force outside Iraq, which would be preferable.



Sheesh I just lost everything. Go Elliott.



Jeez talk about campaign promises that are dangerous as well as stooopid.

No doubt. Hillary sounds desperate too.


I'll surrender first!

No, I will!!

No, I surrendered yesterday - not just that but I awarded our AQ allies basing rights in Baghdad!

Well that sums it up nicely!


What's the uncommitted vote right now?

hit and run

Hannity: Will you go after McCain?

Fred: Yes and I think that....

Sean: Sen Thompson, sorry to interrupt you here, but I just have to ask you, will you be willing to go after Mccain.

Fred: Stop asking me if I'm going to go after McCain -- I'm going after McCain.

Sean: Yes, but Sen Thompson, will you go after McCain.

Fred:Dammit numbskull, I said I will go after McCain.

hit and run

Oh, and at the end...

Sean: Sen Thompson, remind me not to ever debate you.....



Their promises regarding Iraq [and the wider war on terror] are about the dumbest, unserious proposals I've heard yet. We had a thread the other day about "a pivot" on the Iraq issue for the general. There will be no pivot, they are far to committed to letting the Islamists win.


It finally dawned on me that Kucinich was missing, and that the judge was overruled who said he had to be there.


JM Hanes

Truly astonishing. All three candidates have just articulated policies on Iraq without any reference whatsoever to events on the ground in the Middle East or the larger region. If you want to know what separates the Dems and the Republicans, that's is in a nuttyshell. From folks who insist we need to be paying more attention to the world outside our borders.

Russert actually calls it a rotsy program?


oooohhh - Fred is on fire. He ain't taking no crap from nobody. Talked over Hannity, which is pretty hard to do. Not arrogant, but I think he has just about had it with the media narrative and framing.

yuck, Huck is on now. He beat everybody but the two people who had deep roots there. Yeah. that'll work.

hit and run

What's the uncommitted vote right now?

On Fox...

Hillary 58%
Uncommitted: 37%

Fox said earlier their exit polls showed Hill ending with 55%


I can never express enough my gratitude to Jane and Eliott for their great work on the debates.
Hit, I thought the Thompson- Hannity exchnge was hilarious.


Their promises regarding Iraq [and the wider war on terror] are about the dumbest, unserious proposals I've heard yet.

They really, really are. My hunch is -- as Jane explains it "me first, no me first and I will do this too, no will do that and will do this and this and this and so on -- this debate will turn out to be a big mistake eventually.

They all sound like they aren't thinking clearly, the pandering is gettin' the best of them.



We have two sitting Senators here, and one ex-Senator, what did you propose that would have done anything to correct what you complain about and blame BUSH THE EVIL ONE For?


Huck says Fred is a foreign registered agent. So there! Huckahooey is the only conservative (he says).

JM Hanes

We should be taking care of our vets -- they're going to be really depressed after we make 'em lose the war and come home.

Rick Ballard


The life purpose of Copperhead vermin is to bitch and moan - never to do anything.


Russert: Some say volunteer army has too many poor. Will you enforce Solomon amendment?

Clinton: Yes. Those in military are among best in country. I want them to have chance to buy home and go to college. Bush sends mixed messages. They're trying to take away signing bonuses of wounded soldiers. National service of all kinds honorable and essential. I want to expand civilian national service. Encourage ROTC.

Russert: Top schools don't have it?

Clinton: There are options. They shouldn't do anything to undermine it.

Obama: Yes (enforce). (Missed some). Volunteer army fine if deployed wisely. Should expand so don't have multiple tours. National service plan, military and civilian. More foreign service officers.

Edwards: Yes. Shouldn't just talk about extraordinary service. 2 million veterans are homeless. Psychological problems for returning veterans. Life difficult financially for military families. Reservists don't make as much as they did in civilian life. Medical service, job training for veterans. Increase in military pay. More money for VA.

Obama; Bush has failed veterans. Soldiers paying for meals and phone calls at Walter Read. I passed a bill to change that.

Clinton: Do everything to help returning veterans. Traumatic brain injury. I passed legislation to help treat this.


The Red Witch will enforce the Solomon Amendment [yammering about ed benefits, health benefits...blames Bush for "failure"...nevermind that the GI Bill+CF is up to 55k, SL Repayment is 65k, and ed benefits are only used by about 20% of those elegible]

Obama is also a yes

and so is Edwards [now he is playing up the "crazy vet syndrome"...wonder if he is helping astroturf another WSI-type attack]

Obama: Bush has failed. Walter Reed...missed what was said

RW: TBI...support funding and screening

Yucca Mountian-yea!!!! Make that thing glow like a Christmas Tree

JM Hanes

I had no idea that Hillarity and Obama had passed soooo many bills! And here I thought all they were doing was campaigning.


More foreign service officers.

That's the ticket!


Now on Fox - the brilliant, articulate, and clean Sen. Brownback, rambling on and on. He supports the Maverick, btw.

Easy to see why he didn't go anywhere.

JM Hanes

New Clinton bumpersticker #zzzz: Consistent and Persistent.

Edwards, yeah I was for Yucca Mtn, but I was duped! No Nukes!


I look forward to Rush tomorrow.

Hannity is socking it to Brownback about McCain's less than stellar conservative record in the Senate.


Hill will enforce ROTC, and says the troops are great (except general Betrayus) she wants to make up for "Bush's negligence."

It's okay if the top ten schools don't have ROTC. So I guess she will only enforce it for other schools.

Obama - the volunteer army is unfair. Limit the tours of duty. National service program.

Edwards: I will also enforce the statute (but I don't really mean it either.) All the soldiers live under bridges. ( Don't make them work in the mills. Give them more money, more money, more money, and the government will evaluate them for their needs and find them jobs and give them homes and child care, and anything else they want. (we can just destroy a few more corporations to do it)

Obama bashes Bush. I passed a bill.

Hillary - there is traumatic brain injury and I past a law to treat it, and we will put chips under their skin so we can track them all thru their lives. Now that's an incentive to join! Bring back the draft!

End Yukka mountain, put nuclear waste in a red state. Hill has always been against Yukka mountain and held hearings. No ideas and Obama has donaters from bad companies who like Yucca mountain and Edwards didn't vote against it, but he is now against it.

Edwards is against nuclear power plants - he will just print money.

Hillary is smirking.

Oh dear Obama you voted for nuclear power, did you realize that? Oh don't worry Tim, i was voting for clean power.

JM Hanes

Energy independence and No Nukes!


Per KLO at NRO - 40% of dems went for McCain.


Maybe the Red Witch can have Joe Plame do the recruiting.

The money spent on Yucca Mountain would make Con. Murtha weep. It has also employed lawyers and environmentalists for about the last 25 years.

JM Hanes

Obama has a lot of science to catch up on. Cap & trade: [ Shoot, why not just print more money?]

Drink on special interests!

Hill calls Obama a little piece of the puzzle.


What does it say when you are the only one on the ballot and only your party is voting and yet almost 4 out of 10 still say "none of the above"?

Those who think this is a bad year for Republicans need to think about the immortal words of Governor Connelly when asked aboutwhat made him think he was qualified to be President. His reply " I have seen the other guys running."


From the incomparable Steyn at NRO:

"Kathryn, I think it's terrible, after his terrific performance against Hillary in Michigan, to exclude this guy Uncommited from the Democratic debate. I'll bet right now Bill and Hill and co are trying to figure out how to play the commitment card against him.


I regret that vote, though it never became law.


si..si puedo equivocar!!

hit and run

Gmax -- I hope you had a wonderful holidays with the family. Tell Jmax that princess hit and run still talks about her.

JM Hanes

Jane: put nuclear waste in a red state, ROTFLMSAO

Moratorium on nukes andcoal.

This needs to be our Apollo moon shop [that concept is not bad actually]

Obama calls Edwards a low hanging fruit!


Williams: Yucca mountain. Kill it?

Obama: Yes. Not based on sound science that assures Nevadans they'll be safe. Just because billions have been spent shouldn't stop us from recognizing mistake and keeping Nevadans safe. Get a bunch of experts together to reach solution.

Clinton: I'm against Yucca Mountain. I held a hearing. One of Obama's supporters is in favor of Yucca Mountain. Edwards voted for it.

Obama: My state has most nuclear plants and I'm still against Yucca Mountain.

Edwards: (missed some). Obama open to more nuclear power, Clinton agnostic. I'm against nuclear power because they aren't a safe solution.

Clinton: Voted for it twice.

Edwards: Science debunked and there were forgeries. That's been my position for years.

Russert: Obama voted for energy bill, Clinton against. Nuclear power big winner from that bill. 29 plants in the works. Did you know this would happen?

Obama: I voted for the single largest investment in clean energy ever. If cost efficient, safe way to produce nuclear energy that can be stored safely there should be more nuclear power to stave off the evil of climate change. Unleash the innovative spirit of America. Cap and trade. See whether nuclear power can survive the marketplace.

Clinton: 2005 energy bill written by and for Cheney and special interests. Many of us said it wouldn't bring green energy. Break lock of special interests. Take subsidies away from oil companies. Put money into green energy. Not enough investment so far to break foreign oil addiction. Take away the giveaways. Solar, wind, geothermal.

Russert: Population, CO2 will grow. Wind and solar not enough.

Edwards: If doubled nuclear power it would solve 1/7 of greenhouse problem. Should invest in biofuels. Agree that need to break iron grip of oil and gas companies. Clinton has raised most money from them. Need to take them on. Cap on carbon emissions. Polluters penalties should go to alternative energy. Moratorium on coal plants, until capture carbon. We're worst polluter on planet.

Clinton: Comprehensive energy plan not reliant on nuclear power. Coal only if really modern and clean. Alternative energy is like going to moon--big challenge that we can reach.

Obama: Reduce consumption. Inefficiency. Ordinary citizens have to make a change. Buildings, lights, etc., need to be more efficient. Low-hanging fruit. Won't lower standard of living.


From Hotline - Romney BEAT Huckabee with evangelicals in Mich.:

"Mitt Romney leading Mike Huckabee 32-31% among born-again/evangelical Christians, with John McCain at 22%. Born-again/evangelicals made up 41% of GOP primary voters in Mich."

hit and run

es mejor para tener amó y perdió
que nunca tener amó en todos


Clinton: It was all Dick Cheney's fault. It helped Haliburton, Obama is bad. Dick Cheney now wrote the bill - gee I didn't know that. Hill is going green.

Edwards MIT says you are wrong. We are all doomed. What will you do? Nuclear is not the answer. I say bring on biofuels and now I'll change the subject because it is all the corporation's fault and Hillary gets money from them.

And stop coal too. we don't need any energy at all - we can all bask in the sun.

Hillary: I've got a plan - it doesn't rely on nuclear power. And I will have projects, al Gore can help. I'll be like Apollo or something like that.

Obama: we are inefficient. I will demand it. And all those middle class hurting people will be forced to buy it.

Immigration: Edwards - english as an official language -what's the problem? we will fine the illegals. and you should learn to speak english. We will help.

Clinton - your pollster says hispanics don't vote blacks - is that your posiiton. No that's historical. I want to get hispanics to vote for blacks - ooops no I don't. I'm relying on them not doing that, but let me change the subject.

Obama - latinos voted for me in Illinois.

JM Hanes

windansea: Saludos! Long time, etc.

Do you suppose Hispanics like being called the "brown people."



Drink on special interests!


Edwards-Path to Citizenship!!!!

RW: Pollster said...this is black/brown issue...wonder if there are a bunch of eyeless newts™ in NV.

Obama: Not in IL, they all voted for me...I stood with Ted Kennedy and John McCain [I smell campaign commercial]


Williams: Why can't English be official language?

Edwards: Comprehensive immigration reform, earned citizenship. Fine to earn citizenship because we are a nation of laws, also learn English. We should help people learn English.

Russert: Pollster said Hispanic's haven't been eager to support black candidates?

Clinton: He was speaking historically. We're trying to bring people together. We haven't talked enough about black brown issues at this black brown debate. (missed some). We should all be united.

Russert: Hispanic reluctance?

Obama: They all voted for me in Illinois. When Latinos know how committed I am to them they support me. I took on immigration reform with McCain and Kennedy. When Latinos learn about that leadership they know I'll be an advocate for them when the going gets tough.

Email: High dropout rate for black males. What would you do?

Obama: Similar reason as Latinos. Children start school behind, more money for early childhood education so children get help they need. It's money well spent. Improve K-12. Reward good teachers. NCLB shouldn't be tool to punish people. Summer, after school programs because minority youth don't have supplemental programs they need. No urgency in White House. I didn't have money and privilege when I was young but I did have a good education. Parents, especially fathers, have to take their jobs seriously. I grew up without father, I know it's important.

Clinton: Black brown debate, one of the most important issues. Get families the tools and support they need. I worked with the 100 black men in New York. More involvement from community. We all have a role to play.

Edwards: Universal pre-K. Should go earlier with that on childcare, nutrition. Second chance schools to compensate for dropout factories.

JM Hanes

Hillary this black/brown thing starts with families. 100 black Men like me, they really like me!

Edwards: why should we wait till your kids are four before we start spoiling their education?


Obama: talking about parents, fathers, schools can't do it by themselves

Hillary: this is a black-brown debate and commend Obama...commend 100 Black Men Inc...

Does she realize what that sounds like?

Edwards: Second chance schools...

Yea-guns and gun control

JM Hanes

Russert: People don't kill people. Guns kill people.

Hillarity agrees, but she's a realist, so she's gonna let the guns go on killing.

hit and run

And stop coal too. we don't need any energy at all - we can all bask in the sun.

Oh fine, I'll do it...

Who said this?

And we ought to declare that we will be free of energy consumption in this country within a decade, bold as that is.

Well, Huckabee, of course.


t was all Dick Cheney's fault. It helped Haliburton

clinton was the first to give Haliburton gov contracts, right?

JM Hanes

They all want to take your guns away, but they just don't think you're gonna let 'em do it.


HIT where ya been bud?

Hope your holidays were great. I had the whole gang home for the holidays and my parents joined us for 9 days too. Nothing better than family together at Christmas.

Whats with all the spanish on the thread tonight, is it a function of the blue agave plant?


Oooh Barack - why are black men so unsuccessful? They need early childhood education so they know their numbers, colors and letters. Once they get that down, it will save us $10 a person. Lots and lots and lots of programs, because apparently black families don't have any commitment to that stuff. Ahhhh he bashes black fathers. would you legislate that?

Hillary wants in. She is after all the first black first lady. It takes a village, and we have to give them more stuff. It's one of her highest prioities.

Edwards - mandatory education from the womb.

Gun Deaths!!!!! And they kill blacks. HOMOCIDE!

Hillary is against illegal guns and they cause death. But she knows that everyone else loves guns. A working registry for the unbalanced (would that include all vets Hill?) She believes in the 2nd amendment.

Obama: We can't get guns registered. But I will get all the bad guys. It's the NRA's fault.


Obama thinks that you shoot fish. Oh dear.

Russert acknowledges that the dems have lost on this issue. Edwards talks about guns in the mill.


Russert: Guns numbers one cause of death for young black men. Clinton said everyone purchasing gun should have license, purchases should be registered.

Clinton: I'm against illegal guns. I'm a realist, I know the wind is blowing against us. Federal government shouldn't preempt New York. We need a registry to stop criminals and mentally unstable. Crack down on gun dealers. Reinstate assault weapons ban. Police deaths going up. I believe in second amendment.

Obama: Can't get that done (registry?). Need to help law enforcement trace guns used in crimes back to unscrupulous gun dealers. Tradition of lawful gun ownership that we see in rural parts of country. Hunting, fishing, teaching kids to shoot. On other hand, 34 school children killed in Chicago.

Russert: Dems can't win election supporting registration.

Edwards: I've always been against that. Would support reinstating assault weapons ban. Second amendment gives hunters, sportsmen rights.

JM Hanes

TSK9 -- and Bill & Maddy had their hands in the Dubai pot, too, IIRC.

Edwards: You have a constitutional right to hunt!

JM Hanes

OK, I get it now. Guns kill people in cities.


This is hysterical. And very very sad.


Man I cant even make myself read through the thread. Such pandering and shallowness should not be allowed to take up that much valuable time on tv, we could be watching Little Rascals rerun or something.


Fox said earlier their exit polls showed Hill ending with 55%

I guess I should have taken my Michigan predictions on the Democrats to the bank. I think I was way off on Giuliani though.


Hey - how did uncommitted do?

hit and run

Whats with all the spanish on the thread tonight

¿Tu esta' en Texas, no? ¿Espanol no es la langua primera alli'?

(started with the fact that Obama v Hillary and white v black could end up hinging on Hispanics...)


On second thought -- I know that Clinton did give contracts to Halliburton, in that Kosovo quagmire were still involved in.

I was conflating Blackwater.

Clinton Admin first to give Blackwater contracts.


Mark Steyn wants to know why after such a strong showing in Michigan that the Dems are excluding this candidate "Uncommitted" from the debates. Good point.

hit and run

Uncommitted is at 38% right now


The government has done such a bang up job with passports and visas, lets give them another database that doesn't work, isn't used, and is eventaully abandoned.


I know I'm late on this, but I've been engaged with She Who Brings Critical Faculties to Evaluating Even Her Democratic Candidates.

Regarding the Three Stooges'* comments on Yucca Mountain, is it better that the stuff would be stored in the desert or near major bodies of water and population centers around the country?

Do they think that the rest of us are too stupid to Google that graphic? Are they right?

*Is Kucinich 'Shemp'?


La lengua primera aqui? Son Texan.

If that not clear, I am fixin to splain it to ya. Hear?


Why not have the government take unaborted babies at birth and educate them properly without interference from parents, especially Republican parents? Wouldn't Republicans welcome this anyway, since it would give them more time to shoot their guns and stuff?


9/11 is the politics of fear...the tragedy...will take a while to get through...Iraq was a strategic error that has made us less safe. Get out of Iraq to find bin-Laden [because it would be soooo easy to drop in the 3rd Infantry Division into Afghanistan].

Fear as a political weapon. We have real enemies and we have to be ready on day 1.


The Agent of Heartache, so grain of salt time ...Andy

Blacklash? 15 Jan 2008 09:27 pm So far, in Michigan, the African-American vote is going 69 percent for "Uncommitted" against 25 percent for Clinton. That's a brutal judgment on the front-runner in the Democratic race. I wonder if the Clintons have badly damaged their own party in their attempt to quash the hopes raised by Obama.

Frank Luntz has a focus group on the Dem debate (on Fox now)


9/11 is the politics of fear...the tragedy...will take a while to get through

Who said this?


Williams: Criticized Rove fear card. Said on eve of NH AQ tested Brown right away intentionally, suggesting needed President to be ready upon taking office.

Clinton: That's what I said and it's true. We face dangerous adversary and next president has to be prepared. Attacks will continue. Should talk more about homeland security. I represent New York so I might feel it more acutely. (missed some) Need to repair relationships, get other nations to help us. I feel prepared.

Williams: 9/11 invoked too much in both parties?

Obama: Too much politics of fear. But we do have real enemies, understandable in the aftermath. Senator Clinton did good work in aftermath. Mistake for Clinton to use terrorist attack to make political point. Money that should have been spent on homeland security, chasing bin Laden was spent in Iraq. Bad judgment. I'll be honest with American people, build alliances around world.

Russert: You're not suggesting they'd attack earlier if Obama were elected?

Clinton: There were two failed attacks early in Brown premiership, tasked by al Qaeda operatives. It matters who's President. No rest for the President. Difference between fear (Bush) and recognition of enemies and the need to meet them (me).

Russert: Musharraf called you back. Was that appropriate when Musharraf needed legitimacy?

Edwards: I placed a call to Pakistani ambassador. I had tough things to say to Musharraf, which is what a President should say. Continue with democratization. Bhutto lost her life for that. Musharraf said he would, take it with grain of salt. Let in international investigators. Hold fair elections as scheduled.


Whats with all the spanish on the thread tonight

cuz we can

hola JMH

Jane, your summaries are classic!


Ooooh Hillary on terror. She is better. Mucho mucho better (See I can speak spanish too). She is going to protect our country, I'm sure General Betrayus will help. It's all Bush's fault, and I'll make friends with everyone again.

Obama, we are dominated by the politics of fear. Tragedy in NY was a trauma to the country, not so much on PA or Washington. Hillary is trafficking in the politics of fear. Iraq made us less safe. we should instead be preparing for them to attack us here. I'll make friends and that will reduce terrorism.

Hillary - if a democrat is elected al Qaeda will know he or she is weak and they will attack. I'll be better at operating the bureaucacy when we get attacked. There is no time off for a president, well that didn't apply to my husband but I'll be prepared.

Edwards - you called Musharrif, and the Pakistani's think he was involved. Did you give him cover. ooooh I didn;t call Mushariff, but to an ambassador and told him I had tough things to say to Mushariff - I told him to get on with democracy. He said he would but I didn't believe him. I told him he had to have international investigators, because as a candidate for president it's my job to run Pakistan. And I told him how to run his elections.

When did you decide to run for President? Clinton decided New years last year - 2007. WOW. thaat's pretty recent. droning, droning, droning.

Edwards, December 2006.

Obama - december '06. gee. They all lie like rugs.

Rick Ballard

"Uncommitted is at 38% right now"

I expect him to do much better after tonight's debate. There is no question that his intelligence and charisma outpace the total displayed by all three Copperheads in Las Vegas.


CNN panel is sad sad sad

wonder why..


Email: When did you decide to run?

Clinton: Over New Year's holiday (06-07) because our country needs a new beginning. Get back in solutions business in America, I want to solve problems. Year of my life.

Edwards: December 06. The cause of my life is helping middle class. Giving them opportunity I had.

Obama: Dec 06 on vacation. Could family survive rigor? Because my wife is extraordinary and my children are above average I thought they could. I wasn't could I win presidency but should I. I can bring people together. Bring American people into the process of change.

Williams: Thanks everybody.

It's over.


Luntz focus group voted for EDWARDS!

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