Does Obama Heart Hillary, And Should He?

The NY Times grapples with Hillary's newfound appeal to women.  After warning us that she is poised to ride a wave of victimization and gender solidarity to the Democratic nomination they present, without commentary or appropriate background, some absurd interviewee responses from their women in the street.  The Times is especially slack on the Hillary-Obama relationship, so I throw then a lifeline from their own archives.  Here we go:

Women’s Support for Clinton Rises in Wake of Perceived Sexism

By JODI KANTOR

If the race wasn’t about gender already, it certainly is now.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has been running for president for nearly a year. But in the past week, women in Iowa mostly rejected her, a few days before women in New Hampshire embraced her. All over the country, viewers scrutinized coverage for signs of chauvinism in the race, and many said they found dismaying examples.

...

Until a few weeks ago, Mrs. Clinton, of New York, hardly seemed like someone in need of defending — from sexism or anything else. She was the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination. She was a Clinton. And as a former first lady, she was a complicated test case for female achievement.

By losing the first presidential contest, Mrs. Clinton may have succeeded in getting more women to see her as she presents herself: not a dominant figure of power, but a woman trying to break what she has called “the highest and hardest glass ceiling" in America.

“I do want Hillary Rodham Clinton to take the White House, but until she lost Iowa, I didn’t realize how much, or how much it had to do with her being a woman,” said Allison Smith-Estelle, 37, director of a program against domestic violence in Red Lodge, Mont.

So Hillary the Victim is Hillary Ascendant!   Or not.  But the Times irked me here with their casual and uncorrected presentation of interviewee insanity:

What bothered them as much as the Iowa results, said several dozen women in states with coming primaries, was the gleeful reaction to her defeat and what seemed like unfair jabs in the final moments before the New Hampshire voting.

Michelle Six, 36, a lawyer and John Edwards supporter in Los Angeles, said she was horrified to hear Mr. Obama tell Mrs. Clinton she was “likable enough” in a Democratic debate on Saturday. Ms. Six said she found the line condescending, and an echo of other unkind remarks by other men about women over the years.

The likability question, initially raised by a moderator, “wouldn’t be coming up if she wasn’t a woman,” she said.

First, I understand that Jodi Kantor is only passing along an interviewee's perception, but mightn't a responsible reporter want to note the daftness of the assertion that likability is only an issue because Hillary is a woman?  Al Gore and John Kerry famously failed the "who would you rather have a beer with" test in their efforts against George Bush. 

Secondly, and this requires a bit more research, the Times might want to introduce a reality basis to the Obama-Hillary relationship.  Per the quote presented with a straight face here, Obama was condescending when he said that Hillary is "likable enough".  Yet only last August the Times was telling us that Hillary had put Obama in the deep freeze:

Competitors, Once Collegial, Now Seem Cool

By JEFF ZELENY

WASHINGTON, Aug. 4 — They work in the same building. They slog through the same rigorous travel schedule. Along the way, they often cross paths several times a day.

But Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama have barely spoken to each other — at least in any meaningful way — for months.

The tension between the two Democratic presidential hopefuls, which has spilled into public view in the last three weeks, has been intensifying since January. It is clear that the genteel decorum of the Senate has given way to the go-for-the-jugular instinct of the campaign trail.

As the Senate held late sessions of back-to-back votes before its summer break, the two rivals kept a careful eye on each other as they moved across the Senate floor. For more than two hours one night, often while standing only a few feet apart, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama never approached each other or exchanged so much as a pleasantry.

...

The relationship began to change when Mr. Obama began musing aloud about a presidential bid. The day he opened his exploratory committee, several Senate observers said, he extended his hand and said hello on the Senate floor. She breezed by him, offering a cool stare.

Many Senate observers, even those close to Mrs. Clinton, say they believe she set the less-than-collegial tone.

...

As he walked through the Capitol recently, Mr. Obama paused for a moment to answer a question about their relationship.

“She’s said hello a couple times,” Mr. Obama said, a slow grin spreading over his face as he walked away.

Turning back, he added, “It’s been fine.”

Hillary threw Obama in the deep freeze but he is "condescending" for saying she is "likable enough"?  What, was he supposed to lie on her behalf on national television?  The Times might have wanted to include a bit of balancing background in their current story.

Oh, well - I did predict that MSM coverage would boost Hillary and drop Obama, so I won't feign surprise.  In my on-going quest for fairness and balance I suppose I ought to scour the Times for an Obama-booster, but right now I am just taking what Memeorandum gives me.

HMM:  Now Karl Rove is infected; from his "Why Hillary Won" column:

Second, [Ms. Clinton] had two powerful personal moments. The first came in the ABC debate on Saturday, when WMUR TV's Scott Spradling asked why voters were "hesitating on the likeability issue, where they seem to like Barack Obama more." Mrs. Clinton's self-deprecating response -- "Well, that hurts my feelings" -- was followed by a playful "But I'll try to go on."

You couldn't help but smile. It reminded Democrats what they occasionally like about her. Then Mr. Obama followed with a needless and dismissive, "You're likable enough, Hillary."

Her remarks helped wash away the memory of her angry replies to attacks at the debate's start. His trash talking was an unattractive carryover from his days playing pickup basketball at Harvard, and capped a mediocre night.

OK, as he described it Obama missed a good opportunity to shut up.  I still think the Times could have offered some background.

LATE HIT:  Frank Rich thought it was a dreadful moment for Obama.  I may be all wet here.

Comments

[Ralph L]

What, you mean they aren't trying to kill each other with kindness?

[Jane]

Hillary is calling herself the great liberator. Finally women are free.

"Maybe I have liberated us to actually let women be human beings in public," she said. "You know, we are. Let's be that."

I know that I for one I have always been so withdrawn in public - so completely afraid to be myself. It's really sweet of Hillary to free me up. Excuse me now. I must go dance naked in the public square.

[kim]

The power of it was in the condescension; 'likeable enough'. Since when has Hillary ever been condescended to, or any woman, for that matter.
==============================

[anduril]

Karl Rove has an article in the WSJ today: Why Hillary Won. The article covers not only postive reasons, but also goes into some of Obama's weaknesses that were exploited by the Clinton team.

Jane, no sweat--I'm a great one for giving advice, needed or not.

[anduril]

JMH, I'm using an elastic bandage to keep my jaw in place (re Reuters).

[centralcal]

News Flash. John Kerry just endorsed Obama.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

Ann said this would be fun last night, by golly it is fun!

[Sue]

News Flash. John Kerry just endorsed Obama.

Great. Now who is Gore supporting?

[GMax]

Karl Rove explains to you the weaknesses of the haloless messianic candidate:

Former President Bill Clinton hit a nerve by drawing attention to Mr. Obama's conflicting statements on Iraq. There's more -- and more powerful -- material available. Mr. Obama has failed to rise to leadership on a single major issue in the Senate. In the Illinois legislature, he had a habit of ducking major issues, voting "present" on bills important to many Democratic interest groups, like abortion-rights and gun-control advocates. He is often lazy, given to misstatements and exaggerations and, when he doesn't know the answer, too ready to try to bluff his way through.

For someone who talks about a new, positive style of politics and pledges to be true to his word, Mr. Obama too often practices the old style of politics, saying one thing and doing another. He won't escape criticism on all this easily.

[centralcal]

In Michigan, a key Obama supporter is backing Huckabee (Obama is not competing in MI). This could really affect the Republican race.

See link to Human Events in my url.

[kim]

Say, a, it might help explain why our local 'He who must be decoded' keeps maundering on about Plame taking over Agee's role.

I can see it now; Joe Wilson, travel agent for Middle East and African tours. Oh, wait.
=========================

[Appalled Moderate]

TM:

Is it time to start projecting the effect of the media backlash against the tear stained media backlash against Obama? Because. Seriously. The current analysis (My God, she cries! And that awful Obama was smirkily snarky to this sniffiling fair flower of first ladyhood) makes me want to hurl.

[Soylent Red]

John Kerry just endorsed Obama.

Wheee! Empty suit endorses empty suit! They don't have a resume between them.

This should definitely capture the idiot vote for Obama.

[centralcal]

Barack is probably asking: Why me? Why? Why?

[centralcal]

Re: Kerry endorsing Obama, a commenter from the HuffPo say:

"Clearly a crafty move by the Clinton campaign -- the kiss of death for Obama"

[kim]

I would love it if the poobahs of the Democratic Party, are you listening Howie, would turn to Gore to salvage the wreck of the Democratic Party after it tries to traverse the Scylla and Charybdis of race and sex, just as dropping temperatures become impossible to ignore.
============================

[kim]

I've got to congratulate Obama and Hillary. They have now jointly managed to make race and sex pillars of these primaries, issues out of the blue, so to speak.
===================

[kim]

Kerry figures its just a crafty way to get Obama's support for him, after the Clintons dissect Obama.
==============================

[Jenna]

file under: 'backlash', 'more harm than good'

[PeterUK]

The psychology of the Democrats Denial.Repression.

"Great. Now who is Gore supporting?"

The Ice Queen.

[RichatUF]

Sue-

Now who is Gore supporting?

Don't be silly, The Weight of the World™. Gaia won't just save herself.

[kim]

Now that's funny, a Gore-Kerry contest.
===============================

[RichatUF]

kim-

...would turn to Gore to salvage the wreck of the Democratic Party after it tries to traverse the Scylla and Charybdis of race and sex, just as dropping temperatures become impossible to ignore...

And as Gore droned on about global warming and gaia, a freak snow-storm buries Denver, CO as the Democrat Convention is held during the coldest August on record [it could happen]. I hear that the lower circles of hell are very cold.

[kim]

TNX for the link to MsHygeia, Pete. One of the most radicalizing moments of my life was listening to feminists defend Clinton a decade ago.
==================================

[kim]

Frozen Hell circles Ahmadi-Nijad as we speak.
=======================

[Rick Ballard]

Careful Rich. The Dems will steal the idea and start peddling tickets to "Kayak the Cocytus with Maleficent" before the convention.

[RichatUF]

Rick-

The banner above the dias reads-Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate- as the Opportunists are hypnotized by the entertainment.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

From Karl Rove's WSJ piece:

Mr. Obama comes across as a vitamin-starved Adlai Stevenson. His rhetoric, while eloquent and moving at times, has been too often light as air.

Which supports something Lanny Davis told Michael Medved. Davis said he fully expected Obama to defeat Hillary by double digits, and had even left New Hampshire on election day, so as not to be around to be embarrassed.

In hindsight though, he realized that some of the responses he had been getting when he made phone calls for Hillary on Monday were telling. Many people said they'd initially been attracted to Obama, but as time passed they realized there was nothing to him but rhetoric.

[Elliott]

In Michigan, a key Obama supporter is backing Huckabee...

Good call, MayBee. Let's hope the Dems' efforts at meddling prove ineffective.

[Rick Ballard]

Barack Hussein Obama is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

Karl Rove is just being mean.

[Jane]

Elliott,

Big debate tonite. The vaunted Ron Paul will be included. Are you around?

[kim]

'vitamin-starved Adlai Stevenson' is some sort fertilized hothouse rhetorical bloom.
========================

[Other Tom]

Kerry knows something we don't know: Obama has made secret missions into Iran, actually getting shot at on Christmas Eve by the Revolutionary Guards, US Special Forces and a platoon of dope-crazed Zouaves.

I relished this one from R. Emmett Tyrell:

"My guess is that a sizable number of Democrats have had enough of it. Obama represents a clean break with a troubled and mediocre past. As Hillary leaves New Hampshire, she challenges Obama on the question of experience. The junior senator from Illinois should take up her challenge. Hillary can chide him for his lack of experience, and he can remind us all of Hillary's unique experiences, beginning with the Clintons' 'holiday from history,' and Travelgate, Filegate, missing billing records, lying under oath, her cattle-futures bonanza, the Riady family, Johnny Chung, John Huang, Charlie Trie -- and suddenly, you see it, too, the large hairy monster that is the Clinton legacy."

Hillary was right--now the fun part begins.

[Other Tom]

An anguished query to Anduril: how would the Latin for "a voice crying out in the wilderness" differ from "the voice of one crying out in the wilderness?" (I realize that the latter is the English translation adopted by Dartmouth--but couldn't the Latin phrase support either translation?)

I have been pondering this at three a.m. lately...

[PeterUK]

"Kerry knows something we don't know:"

???????????????????

[Rick Ballard]

OT,

Don't you need to begin with a decent koiné/vulgate crib? I believe that the problem with the aorist tense may apply.

[RichatUF]

When the politics of "wiretaps" don't work out, just stop paying the phone bill. It is hard to imagine that something this basic can't get done right.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Excuse me now. I must go dance naked in the public square.

Pictures?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Don't you need to begin with a decent koiné/vulgate crib? I believe that the problem with the aorist tense may apply.

Graecum est.

[Plageee]

Agee had issues with the administration. Bush. Plame had issues with the administration. Bush. Agee published names and at least one got assassinated. Plame sold off 10 agents in Iraq who were assassinated the day after her 'Vanity Fair' admission and had a Madrid follow through. Plame was watched since Ames arrest, probably because she went bad.

Agee/Plame have allot in common and, I guess, Plame wouldn't like this discussed. So, no one really discussed it, with the exception of Agee who noted she probably went Russian with Ames. Her follow through would indicate she intended the same for those involved as she intended for the agents in Iraq and the people in Madrid. Ames did allot of killing of Russians before he was arrested. This is why CIA waited to have him arrested. This is what is found upsetting. Plame did the same thing and CIA said nothing except they never approved the 'Vanity Fair' admission. Agee passed on this type of killing. CIA apparently views these types of killings as good. It's bad for business and it is now difficult to talk to Russians and the other countries in Iraq that had people killed.

Plame is a security nut. She found out investigating the Ames arrest that security is there and there is allot of it. Once she was put on a watch, she probably saw allot of it, but didn't bother checking if they were friendly, so when it left after she got Iraq, she wanted it back. It's not back because she was off the watch. She had already done the damage. She wasn't arrested.

Hillary is crying, let's all do the Macarana and she'll be okay!!!!!!

[Rick Ballard]

OT-Anduril,

The translation sequence is Hebrew (Isaiah 40:3), Aramaic, koiné, vulgate, English. The phrase "Get thee to a yeshiva" occurs to me but I doubt that it would render a satisfactory answer.

[Other Tom]

PeterUK, I'm suggesting that Kerry and Obama have that special bond that can exist only among true war heroes who undertook risky clandestine missions for their country, even though they nobly opposed their contry's military adventurism.

[PeterUK]

OT.Black ops?

[Nick Kasoff]

Michelle Six, 36, a lawyer and John Edwards supporter in Los Angeles, said she was horrified to hear Mr. Obama tell Mrs. Clinton she was “likable enough” in a Democratic debate on Saturday. Ms. Six said she found the line condescending, and an echo of other unkind remarks by other men about women over the years.

The likability question, initially raised by a moderator, “wouldn’t be coming up if she wasn’t a woman,” she said.

The likability factor wouldn't come up? Seems to me that the "guy I'd most like to have a beer with" question is precisely that.

Besides, what sort of a stupid last name is Six anyway? Is this gal 1/3 of the mark of the beast, or what?

Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report

[anduril]

Vox is in the nominative case, but the participle clamantis (as used in the actual text of Mark) is in the genitive case, so you know it can't modify vox and must mean "the voice of one crying out." To have the participle modify vox you'd simply put it in the nominative and say vox clamans = "a voice crying out." In other words, the participle clamantis, while technically an adjective, is being used as a substantive in the text as we have it, whereas clamans would be a properly adjectival use modifying the noun vox.

In this verse the Greek is actually somewhat clearer, since the Greek phone (like the Latin vox) is a feminine noun. While the Latin present active participle doesn't flag for gender, the Greek participle has a mixed declension (masc. + neut. 3rd, fem. 1st) that does make gender readily apparent: thus, in addition to the case agreement flag you have the extra gender agreement flag in the original Greek--the relevant Greek participle is genitive in case and masculine in gender, in obvious contrast to the feminine noun.

Don't let this fool you--my Latin is rusty as all hell: I agonized over this post lest I say anything really stupid. Anything more complicated and I'd have had to defer to my son. I took an interest simply because on another forum certain posters like to put on intellectual airs by mangling the lingua latina-- which I find amusing because it actually exposes them as wannabe's. I was pleased to see you use it correctly, even though I don't particularly enjoy Latin: I wish I'd devoted the time I spent on Latin to more Greek. That's life, I guess.

[anduril]

Rick, are you sure Is. 40 isn't in Hebrew? Modern commentators tend more and more to assume that Jesus may well have known Hebrew, even if many of the NT refs to the OT are to the Septuagint.

[anduril]

Rick, sorry, I was cross-eyed from proofing that other post. But I do wonder about that "Aramaic."

[Jane]

Charlie,

Under my name. (Not for work)

[Rick Ballard]

Anduril,

It's a convention I picked up in arguing exegesis. Kinda like, "What language did Paul use to keep notes?".

[JM Hanes]

Shoot, I was rooting for the voice, not the one.

[kim]

They're not plastic, Jane.
===============

[Other Tom]

Thanks, Anduril. Rick, I don't see no aorist tense issue.

[PeterUK]

So that's how Joan Baez got her start,hope she warmed the guitar up first.

[Jane]

I'm just celebrating Hillary's liberation of me. What do you expect?

[vnjagvet]

Rick, Anduril:

Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Accusative, and Ablative come flooding back to me from 1955.

YAGGGGHHHHHHH! I didn't get it then, and I ain't any better now.

More power to you, though. It is more interesting to me now, BTW.

Jane, Kim:

It is clear that her two best points are not her musical ability or her voice. And she definitely needs work on her guitar technique. But noone seemed to notice.

[steveaz]

Appalled Moderate,
Agreed. And it is the triviality of the differences between these candidates that gives away the Dem's media-plan.

In phase I, their media will emphasize trivial discrepancies between their candidates in order to impress donors that this is a real contest. This is pablum for the base.

In phase II, at the convention, a maneuver that TM calls the "pivot" is planned. In this phase media will present Obama and Clinton as putting aside their "differences" and "coming together" to form a "uniting" ticket so they "fight". The "contest" and their "stark differences" forgotten, they will "link arms" for the sake of "America's Children."

BTW, I believe that the media's pre-choreographed "pivot" demanded that Obama skip-out on Michigan's primary. Reason is, Obama's glossy imprimatur cannot survive Michigan's racialist politics, and if Obama's brand is slipping it'll be more difficult to execute the "pivot" with any hope of winning the final election.

Obama's team didn't skip the state of Michigan just becauseit bumped its primary up by a few months, although my pet Iguana thinks otherwise.
-s

[JM Hanes]

Lord, please let the gender phase of this election comes to a swift end! I blame Obama, actually. The press seemed to think they'd hit the jackpot when they found out his campaign was doing grass roots outreach in local beauty parlors. I could swear that's where they've been going for quotes from women ever since.

[Sue]

But noone seemed to notice.

Which I found very odd. Most everyone just walked around her, never even looking.

[BarbaraS]

What a laugh I got at the picture of Hillary weeping. This woman has single handedly destroyed the reputations (and one wonders maybe the lives) of too many people for me to be sympathetic to her woes. She wants to be one of the boys, then stop with the feminine tricks already. Of course, it is understood that she will use anything to succeed. That goes without saying.

I firmly believe that Hillary won New Hampshire because her supporters came in from the surrounding states. When you have an open primary you are opening yourself up to a pile of garbage. It seems that New Hampshire, like Iowa had too many voters for these districts.

I don't want a woman to be president. I want someone tough who will pull the plug when needed. Who will not hesitate to destroy anyone getting in her way. Oh wait.........

[kim]

Let it be known to the readers that Sue, who has obviously wasted way too much time trotting through the city, is an extremely alert young woman, extraordinarily aware of her surroundings. That she should find the viewing odd is a testament to her powers, not the oddity of the viewers. Or else they edited out the gawkers; I'll go with this one.
==============================

[vnjagvet]

Having Obama and Clinton duking it out with both hammering each other about gender, race, experience, judgment, religion and skeletons in the closet. All of this is under the scrutiny of the MSM, and, more importantly, of the opposition.

Gaffes, stories, and exposed deficiencies all will be recycled in the general election.

The Republican candidates seem to understand this, and so far, their internecene struggles are a bit less cutthroat and more muted then those of their Democratic colleagues.

[MayBee]

Lord, please let the gender phase of this election comes to a swift end! I blame Obama, actually. The press seemed to think they'd hit the jackpot when they found out his campaign was doing grass roots outreach in local beauty parlors. I could swear that's where they've been going for quotes from women ever since.

Oh, JMH, I fear there is a scary, untapped majority of these people out there. Yesterday our local NPR station had a call-in show about this very topic, complete with Ann Lewis.
A caller made the suggestion Hillary run as the "wise mother" candidate. Only 1 or 2 callers pled with voters to drop the woman talk.
The new important voter: out with the soccer mom, in with the Lifetime Network viewer.

[Other Tom]

Close your eyes and picture Maggie Thatcher crying.

[clarice]

If only there were an Hispanic still in the race..we could make this a WWF all grievance and victim tag team match.

[Porchlight]

I'm afraid the Lifetime Network part of the campaign has only just begun. (It's practically all she's got, after all.) These women are her go-to reserves in the general, if she can survive the primary.

[Sue]

Let it be known to the readers that Sue, who has obviously wasted way too much time trotting through the city

Or not enough time. I assure you, had the young lady stood on a street corner in any city I trot around, they wouldn't have been able to edit out the gawkers.

[mg]

Females are genetic mutations. God did it.

As far as viewers, like are you talking about the world leaders at the UN using the TV to stare and hear through CIA agents heads? Enough time?

[JM Hanes]

The real irony is what the new, improved, more human Hillary was actually saying when she ostensibly let some emotion bubble up to the surface. Like the idea that she takes all this personally was some kind of news -- from the grudge nursing folks who brought you the politics of personal destruction.

It occurs to me that we ought to be able to do something useful with the acronym for said politics. When the Clintons go for the jugular, have you been PoPD or PPD?

[JM Hanes]

MayBee:

And I'm afraid you're right. So much for Gloria Steinem's thesis that women get more radical with age. Young women are wearing sports bras out on the playing field, and their mothers are lounging around in the tube in sweatsuits.

[JM Hanes]

...lounging around in the tube...

I hate it when that happens.

[cathyf]

Females are genetic mutations. God did it.

*snort* I always enjoy this argument... It's funny, because thousands of years of philosophy and theology have been based on the "obvious" physical argument that a female is some sort of defective male because she is "missing" the external male anatomy. Then, in the 20th century, we developed microscopes that show us just as "obviously" that a Y-chromasome is an X-chromasome which was so badly damaged that 90% of it wasted away. All of a sudden those arguments from Aristotle or Aquinas *poof* disappear, hidden out of sight, never to be referenced. Of course it's not the conclusions about "natural" female inferiority that disappear, merely the underlying arguments about "missing" and "defective" (or, in modern language, "mutation") which might be turned from goose to gander...

(Hey, this wasn't any more off-topic than the latin lessons!)

[JM Hanes]

cathyf: nor any less classic either!

[clarice]

All those womens mags and shows aimed at women are designed to and do suck their brains out. Watch/read them and see--all glorify emotion over reason and promote whatever crap is on the kettle that day.

Mush and more mush--and dangerous pap. When Nader was shutting down the most environmentally friendly energy sources in this country--nuclear power--every damned women's magazine followed like lemmings his latest nincompoopery..now it's global warming and universal health care.

These things should be on the surgeon general's list as unhealthy for the normal brain.

[cathyf]

Oh, but you didn't mention the best part of the genre... You know, the headlines on the front cover say things like "Lose 20lbs In Two Weeks!" or "LoCarb Magic!" or "Lose Weight Without Deprivation!" or the like, right next to the lurid cover picture of the 10,000-calorie bakery product which is featured in the recipe section of the magazine.

[Porchlight]

I don't let any glossy mags into my house - as far as I'm concerned, they're all like that. Women's mags, style mags, gossip rags, you name it. I think it kills brain cells just to glance at the cover.

The parenting ones are the worst, imho.

[clarice]

Absolutely, cathyf--that's a must feature. Or the ads featuring 9 foot tall 100 lb models in the middle of a sad story about anorexia.

Anyway, if you are really stupid, go work for the FBI--no matter how badly you f*** up you will never apparently be fired.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/5443975.html>Fed Bur of Idiots