Fearmongering From Hillary?

I want a transcript but did Hillary say that the next President will be attacked by Al Qaeda?  I certainly heard her say it is "a fact" that Gordon Brown of the UK was greeted with a Qaeda-backed attacked after taking over from Tony Blair.  [Old news; where have I been?]

I thought it was Bush and Evil Dick Cheney that were keeping fear alive for their own sinister political ends.  Baffling.  Of course, I have been assured that Republicans had a monopoly on race-baiting, but Hillary sure turned me around on that.

MORE:  In the debate transcript Brian Williams refers to old Hillary criticism of Bush and Rove; here we go from Hillary.2006:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton on Wednesday accused Republicans of "playing the fear card" of terrorism to win elections and said Democrats cannot keep quiet if they want to win in November.

The New York Democrat, facing re-election this year and considered a potential White House candidate in 2008, said Republicans won the past two elections on the issue of national security and "they're doing it to us again."

She said a speech by presidential adviser Karl Rove two weeks ago showed the GOP election message is: "All we've got is fear and we're going to keep playing the fear card."

And from the debate:

Question for Senator Clinton. In 2006, you railed against Karl Rove and the Republicans for playing what you called the fear card.

But on the eve of the New Hampshire primary, you said this: "I don't think it was by accident that al Qaeda decided to test the new prime minister, Gordon Brown, immediately. They watch our elections as closely as we do, maybe more than some of our fellow citizens do. They play our, you know, allies. They do everything they can to undermine security in the world. So let's not forget you're hiring a president, not just to do what a candidate says he or she wants to do in an election. You're hiring a president to be there when the chips were down."

You were suggesting, it's been suggested that you would be a better president to deal with a possible terrorist attack than, perhaps, Senator Obama.

CLINTON: Well, what I said is what you quoted, and I'm not going to characterize it, but it is the fact. You know, the fact is that we face a very dangerous adversary, and to forget that or to brush it aside, I think, is a mistake.

So I do feel that the next president has to be prepared because we are up against a relentless enemy. And they will take advantage of us. They will certainly, as they have over the last several years, continue their attacks against our friends and allies around the world.

You know, we haven't talked as much about homeland security as I think is necessary in this campaign. Maybe I feel it acutely because I do represent New York.

CLINTON: But the highest and greatest duty of the president of the United States is to protect and defend our country. And at the end of the day, voters have to make that decision, among all of us, Democrats and Republicans, who are vying for the votes.

Because it is a critical question. It always is. There are, you know, reasons going back in our history why that is so.

But in this time, in this period, where we're going to have to repair a lot of the frayed relationships coming out of the Bush administration, where we're going to have to summon the world to a concerted effort to quell the threat of terrorism, to root them out wherever they are, it's going to be one of the biggest jobs facing our next president.

And I feel prepared and ready to take on what is a daunting but necessary responsibility.

She really is shameless.  Here is a bit of Obama:

WILLIAMS: Senator Obama, if you look just outside where we are tonight, they're building 40,000 new hotel rooms in this city. National security is never far from their minds in Las Vegas, either.

You are fond of saying you won't use 9/11 as a kind of hook.

WILLIAMS: Do you think some of that goes on in both parties?

OBAMA: Well, I think there's no doubt that we've been dominated by a politics of fear since 9/11. Now, some of that's understandable. We have real enemies out there. The tragedy in New York was a trauma to the country that it is going to take a long time for us to work out.

And Senator Clinton did good work in terms of helping the city recover. But I have to say that when Senator Clinton uses the specter of a terrorist attack with a new prime minister during a campaign, I think that is part and parcel with what we've seen the use of the fear of terrorism in scoring political points. And I think that's a mistake. Now, I don't want to perpetuate that.

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE PSYCHIC POWER OF AN AGGRIEVED VIEWER:  At two critical junctures I was able to exert mental control over the proceedings.  Stand back, Pack!  I will be using my new-found powers on behalf of the Eli Giants this Sunday.

Oh, as to the incidents themselves - first, I have no doubt it was my yelling at the television that prompted this guy to get up and get himself tased.

Secondly, when the candidates were asked to identify their greatest strength and weakness I was able to mind-meld John Edwards into delivering the extended-play version of "I care too much".  However he did a great job of keeping a straight face.

SOME KEEN OBSERVER:  I lost count of how many past Senate votes Edwards repudiated.  I am sure of one on the 2001 bankruptcy bill, and I think Hillary mentioned another two related to Yucca Mountain.  Can't they get this guy off the stage?

WORST EVER?  There have been a lot of debates over the years so I am reluctant to fully concur with Ezra Klein when he writes "WORST. MODERATORS. EVER."  But anyone keeping a list of nominees needs to keep this performance in mind.

SECOND AMENDMENT:  From K. Seelye of the NY Times excellent live-blog:

10:48 p.m. | Gun Laws Wow, if you ever needed evidence that the Democratic party has lost the national conversation over guns, this debate offers it on a silver platter. Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Edwards are both against a national registration and licensing plans for guns. “I believe in the Second Amendment, people have a right to bear arms,” Mrs. Clinton says. Mr. Edwards agrees with a statement from Mr. Russert, that it’s fair to say you can’t win a national election by favoring gun control.

Comments

[mance]

It's the Jack Bauer episode from last night. No one called it in and her SS protection expired anyway.

'successive metrics, which exemplify trends in individual performance'

[JM Hanes]

TM:

" I lost count of how many past Senate votes Edwards repudiated."

Somebody (else) should definitely compile those stats!

[PaulL]

It's time for Gore to give a speech:

"SHE PREYED ON OUR FEARS!"

[michaelt]

Just don't have him do it in Philly - I like not having snow.

[Other Tom]

To me, the biggest story for either party last night was Hillary getting 55% of the Michigan vote against Uncommitted and Dennis Kucinich.

Nevertheless, she's going to be the nominee. And she'll lose in November unless she gets Obama to run with her.

Think he'll agree to do it?

[MayBee]

Think he'll agree to do it?

Maybe, but it's hard to see giving up a safe-for-life Senate seat to be Bill's first man. Would you want to be VP with Bill Clinton in the WH?

[clarice]

OTOH, I do not see Hill and Obama as a winning ticket, either.

[bio mom]

I am filled with amazement that there are so many Democrats enthralled with John Edwards! Don't they see him for the phoney baloney that he is? It is glaringly obvious. Just the slimiest person out there.

[Topsecretk9]

But the highest and greatest duty of the president of the United States is to protect and defend our country.

If anyone is wondering why the CIA failed to see a dot let alone connect any under Clinton's watch leading to 9-11...this might help

Here is just one example from Legacy of Ashes

"Thus the CIA report, three weeks after the fact, the biggest mass murder of civilians in Europe since Hitler's death camps fifty years before. 8000 people were dead, and the agency had missed it.

On the other end of Europe, the CIA's Paris station had run an elaborate operation trying to steal the French negotiating position on trade talks. Locked into the idea that free trade was guiding force of American foreign policy, the White House had aggravated the CIA's woes by demanding more and more economic intelligence. The Paris station was pursuing secrets of minimal importance to the national security of the United States –– such as how many American movies would be shown on French screens. The french interior ran a counterespionage operation that included the seduction of a CIA officer working under non-official cover as a businesswoman. There was pillow talk, and secrets were spilled....

[MayBee]

Is that during the Clinton admin, Tops?

[kim]

"non-official cover". Hmmmmm.
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[vn]

Thailand had the CIA torture prisons too. They destroyed tapes too, but they won't say if they flew in Doctors from universities to supervise the torture like in Iraq.

They send vets later to ask for cash. Maybe they weren't tortured, but others were.

[Topsecretk9]

Is that during the Clinton admin, Tops?

Yes. And pin points the time to mid 1995.

[MayBee]

such as how many American movies would be shown on French screens.

It sounds like he was using the CIA to find out business opportunities for his benefactors (like Spielberg and Katzenberg).

[Topsecretk9]

MAybee

That's what I thought too.

[MayBee]

Heh. France only allows a certain number of American movies in, so it can protect its culture. So having that information would be pretty helpful to his Hollywood friends, I would think.

[Topsecretk9]

Maybee

Read:

this

The undercover operative posing as a foundation representative made fundamental mistakes: communicating too openly with the C.I.A. station and communing too secretly with her target, a French official. ... Either through sloppy work or through pillow talk, the undercover operative had revealed her secret status as a spy. The operation quickly unraveled.

and

this

...The question of whether or not the French allow fewer Disney movies into their country does not affect the national security of the United States."...The orders to the intelligence agency's Paris station to steal economic data from the French and the entrapment of the agency's officers by French counterintelligence reflect the fact that the C.I.A. thinks that the risks of stealing trade secrets are worth the potential payoff.

[MayBee]

Either through sloppy work or through pillow talk, the undercover operative had revealed her secret status as a spy.

Apparently, the CIA forgot to train it's women not to tell the men they are sleeping with that they are agents.
I wonder if it dampened this guy's ardor.

I can see using the CIA for competitive economic advantage, but it is just too cute to use them for the film industry when Clinton's biggest fans were the film industry titans.

[Porchlight]

Would you want to be VP with Bill Clinton in the WH?

It wouldn't be pleasant, but as a stepping stone to being the presumptive nominee in 2016, it might be worth it, I suppose.

While I'm speculating, wouldn't it be interesting if that scenario did play out, and we had Obama v. Jindal in the 2016 general?

[Other Tom]

I don't see how any man with an ounce of self-respect could agree to serve as VP in a Hillary administration, given the omnipresence of Bubba.

My guess is that that won't deter Obama. Even if the ticket loses, I think he'd be the presumptive nominee in 2012, or for that matter in every year as far as the eye can see. And I agree that a Hillary-Obama ticket might solve the black voter problem, but it sure would be tough for a lot of people to swallow, imagining her with her hand on the trigger and him a heartbeat away from it (have I missed any cliches?).

[Topsecretk9]

this is pretty long - sorry

france, 93-95 downplayed by cia, paris incident has wide impact. Five americans -- four of them cia officers -- accused by france in february of conducting an economic espionage op against french gvt. Affair briefly made headlines, then faded. Now, u.s. officials acknowledge that episode has had far graver consequences. Bungled op forced cia to suspend virtually all its ops in france earlier this year. Suspension, ordered by cia hqs apparently left the agency without a significant presence in one of the world's most important hubs for espionage in the post- cold war world. A cia source said a state department official warned an agency case officer in paris not even to conduct clandestine ops against non-french targets inside france. Paris fiasco may have had a chilling effect on cia's ability to conduct spying ops elsewhere in western europe. Episode so angered french that they may have shared info about cia's economic espionage ops with other european intel services, including those in germany and italy. Incident has prompted an investigation by cia's inspector general, fred hitz, who is trying to determine whether agency officials failed to properly notify ambassador harriman. Hitz is also trying to ascertain whether carelessness by cia agents was responsible for op's exposure -- what the cia calls in spy jargon "poor trade-craft." Hitz investigation is expected to be completed by the end of year. Case has frustrated senior lawmakers on capitol hill, some of whom complain cia once again failed to keep congress adequately informed. "they didn't tell us anything before op blew," said one member of senate select committee on intel. "they only told us about this at time that it was hitting the papers." This is the latest skirmish in an economic spy war that has been under way between the united states and france for years. U.s. officials accuse the french intel service of repeatedly conducting clandestine ops to pry industrial secrets out of u.s. corporations, angering both the cia and the fbi. In french op, the cia was, in effect, spying for hollywood: at least part of the mission was reportedly designed to determine strength of the french bargaining position in television and telecommunications trade negotiations. U.s. was opposed to french demands to restrict imports of u.s. television programming into europe. Op was blown when french uncovered one of spies, a part-time contract employee with cia. French then trailed her, eventually connecting her with four cia case officers, who were operating under diplomatic cover out of u.s. embassy in paris. Spy whose cover was first blown had had problems in previous ops, cia hqs had been reluctant to use her again. But the paris station chief decided to let her participate anyway. It remains unclear whether the cia has resumed its paris ops. Cia has named a replacement for former paris station chief dick holm, sources could not say whether new chief has arrived in france. Potential for spy wars among allies in the post-cold war era seems to be generating friction in europe. new republic magazine said dci deutch was warned during a summer trip to bonn that german officials would fight cia efforts to engage in economic espionage inside their country. They also demanded that the cia scale back its staff in germany. Deutch also traveled to paris this summer in an effort to smooth relations with both france and harriman. Los angeles times 10/11/95 a1

[Porchlight]

Even if the ticket loses, I think he'd be the presumptive nominee in 2012, or for that matter in every year as far as the eye can see.

I agree. Maybe it would be best to get it over with and have him be elected now, when he is at his most callow and ineffective.

[R. Flanagan]

PRESS
Published: January 16, 2008
Filed at 9:36 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A former congressman and delegate to the United Nations was indicted Wednesday on charges of working for an alleged terrorist fundraising ring that sent more than $130,000 to an al-Qaida supporter who has threatened U.S. and international troops in Afghanistan.

Mark Deli Siljander, a Michigan Republican when he was in the House, was charged with money laundering, conspiracy and obstructing justice for allegedly lying about being hired to lobby senators on behalf of an Islamic charity that authorities said was secretly sending funds to terrorists.

The 42-count indictment, unsealed in U.S. District Court in Kansas City, Mo., accuses the Islamic American Relief Agency of paying Siljander $50,000 for the lobbying -- money that turned out to be stolen from the U.S. Agency for International Development.

End of ap item
............................................
I'm a democrat and I admit tht if it had been one of my lot I'd probably be saying " innocent until proven guilty". Instead he's one of yours so I'm free to say.... "innocent until proven guilty."

In fact if lobbying on behalf of a group meant you could be charged with abetting its activities that would trouble me

I'm also a little doubtful that a former congressman , of either party,
would commit treason for $50,000.00

We'll see

[Mike G in Corvallis]

OBAMA: Well, I think there's no doubt that we've been dominated by a politics of fear since 9/11. Now, some of that's understandable. We have real enemies out there. The tragedy in New York was a trauma to the country that it is going to take a long time for us to work out.

And Senator Clinton did good work in terms of helping the city recover. But I have to say that when Senator Clinton uses the specter of a terrorist attack with a new prime minister during a campaign, I think that is part and parcel with what we've seen the use of the fear of terrorism in scoring political points. And I think that's a mistake. Now, I don't want to perpetuate that.

This is scary. Parse what he said: The attacks of 9/11 were a "tragedy" that just sort of happened, and we all need to recover by working through our feelings about them. But any attempts to mention why we were attacked, or by whom, or to note other attacks, or to prevent future attacks, are just fearmongering.

The Politics of Feeling, folks. And we have tens of millions of citizens who feel but don't think, and buy into this crap.

[Mike G in Corvallis]

Even if the ticket loses, I think he'd be the presumptive nominee in 2012, or for that matter in every year as far as the eye can see.

I agree. Maybe it would be best to get it over with and have him be elected now, when he is at his most callow and ineffective.

Please, no ... If Obama becamse VP, he'd have nothing to do for one or two terms, and could coast along on an unearned reputation without any need to actually do something or develop any identifiable policies. He would be Vice-President Rorschach -- all things to all people, and you could see in him whatever you were looking for. If he remained in the Senate for another one or two terms, people either might begin to notice that there's no substance to him, or might begin to discover what his political beliefs really are and reject them.

Of course, Kerry got away with it in the Senate for two decades, so go figure.

If I were Obama, the one thing I wouldn't do is head up the ticket with Hillary as my veep. Accidents do happen, after all.

[kim]

Oh, and do feelings get hurt?
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