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January 30, 2008



It's a smart bomb to the central nervous system. It must be regulated because it has humane usefullness when time is of the essence in gathering intelligence.


As I understand it waterboarding is NOT used by our military and in fact is forbidden.

The option to use it is only held open by the Executive for use in special circumstances by trained interrogators. In order to protect interrogators IF they were to use the technique, the desire is for it not to be specifically made illegal.


... is provoking head-explosion illegal?

Obviously, we need a special prosecutor to determine whether any laws may have been be violated.


I certainly don't expect them to stand up and be counted.


If homicide can be justified under certain circumstances, I would think that not killing someone could also be justified.

Cecil Turner

As I understand it waterboarding is NOT used by our military and in fact is forbidden.

It was used in SERE school until recently . . . and as far as I know it's still being used there. It is not on the list of acceptable techniques for POWs in the Field Manual for interrogations, but that's really a different subject.


Either Senator Leahy should be waterboarded or the Gitmo prisoners should be released and each one of the democratic senators should have to take one of these charming, innocent, victimized fellows in as a house guest.


The mexican version of water boarding is sitting a guy in a chair--tying hands behind the chair--tipping the chair back--and pouring soda pop down the nose. Read that somewhere.....Lines and Shadows?


CT: Sorry, I haven't been hanging out in these parts, much lately--What is SERE school.


Cecil Turner

What is SERE school.

Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape (SERE) school. A two-week vacation in sunny Warner Springs, with your own personal trainers. Very nice.

Seriously, all the "torture" there is definitely of the "lite" variety, since permanently injuring our own is frowned upon.


It will never happen, but I would prefer President or an AG give us some history (1) and then (2) set a particular policy that allows comfort on the part of citizens and doubt on the part of terrorists.

1) No less a gentleman than George Washington explicitly set humane treatment for prisoners as American policy during the Revolutionary War and that policy reaped benefits on the field and internationally during the war. (See David Hackett Fischer's book, "Washington's Crossing.")

2) Our policy should be that we do not torture prisoners -- the same policy as Washington's. But, as with Washington, a prisoner who is about to be interrogated should never know beforehand when that policy might change.

Leahy, Bush, and Mukasey should follow Washington's example.


The most controversial aspect of SERE is the 'resist and evade' section. Based on the experience of POWs in Korea, Vietnam, Gulf,
they devise ways of resisting the program.
Waterboarding is part of this repertoire of techniques. By now thanks to Kiriakou, Ross,
Susskind, et al, AQ probably has compiled enough information to devise their own version of SERE to counteract any remaining aspects of US interrogation policy.

Irregular and/or counterinsurgent warfare, is different from conventional warfare. The British and American soldiers dealt honorably
with each other. But the Taliban whose recent exploits include fitting a child with a suicide vest deserve no such reciprocity. U.S. experience in counterinsurgency, notably
the Phillipines noted this reality. It's true
that several soldiers were reprimanded for use of the 'water cure'; however, the one who directed and supervised the policy rose to Army Chief of Staff. If the Mukasey regime at Justice; involves actual prosecution of intelligence and interrogation personnel; the likely result will be the battlefield execution of all suspected AQ insurgents; which because of the cell structure of orgnizations will be a limited solution


The focus on waterboarding is truly a tribute to the powers of propaganda. There was definitely an anti-torture outrage in search of a method to decry, and the koran-flushing, fake menstrual-blood techniques just wasn't cutting it.

I can't imagine there is any real person out there that thinks waterboarding KSM for 30 seconds is morally worse than dropping a bomb on him or letting him drop a bomb on innocent Americans.

And yes, if the legislative branch wants to make it illegal, they are the ones with the power.


I can't imagine there is any real person out there that thinks waterboarding KSM for 30 seconds is morally worse than dropping a bomb on him or letting him drop a bomb on innocent Americans.

Indeed there are - the same person who calls me "traitor" and "coward" constantly because I don't oppose waterboarding.

Bunch of crackpots.


I know they say they care, Jane. I'm sure they even think they mean it. But until I hear more outrage about Clinton/Gore's extraordinary renditions than I do about water boarding, I simply don't believe them.


Oh I don't believe them, about that or any other issue.


I'm just a plain ol' country boy who loves his grandchildren. To protect any of my grandchildren from so much as a skinned knee I would gladly gouge out the eyes of the AlQ types and eat them in front of them.
I'm sick of these preening idiots who value their reputations more than our children's lives.


JMHanes probably remembers a parade of preening parrots in Belgravia Square last May, when waterboarding was the issue.


The concept of improving Human Security using torture is a mistake because the torture is based on not needing medical or psychiatric care before, while and after being tortured. Psychiatric care is neceassary and probably medical care. The idea of a doctor or psychiatrist not being part of the torture is why waterboarding is considered acceptable torture.

The idea of torturing based on not needing medical and psychiatric care is the problem with waterboarding. We have to accept this premise when it is not logical.


Without taking into account the issue of establishing a stone by God, which he won't be able to pick up, how do you think, may be something in this world, what can God never see?


Welcome to our game world, my friend asks me to buy some Hellgate London gold .

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