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January 11, 2008

Comments

dwightkschrute

I'm confused, is this a liberal site? Because all I can find are posts about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Wasn't there some kind of Republican debate last night? God forbid anyone should talk about the GOP.

JM Hanes

dwight:

I'm confused. Are you telling us that Hillary and Obama are liberals?

kim

Chill, dwight; now you've got Gaia confused. It is snowing in Baghdad.
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kim

So, dwight, did you catch the debate? How do you like the new boss? He's gonna hire Mitt to run the show while he thinks up things to get under your skin with.
====================

PMII

Will the NH recount change anything?

clarice

Yes, Kucinich has demanded one! Maybe we can fix him up with Ron Paul. They'd make a perfect odd couple.

Jane

Can you believe Kucinich asked for it? Maybe it was a request from outer space.

hrtshpdbox

"Maybe we can fix him up with Ron Paul."
They're already a dynamic duo, being the only two congressmen who voted "no" to a floor vote condemning Iran's threats to blow Israel off the map.

anduril

Worth reading: Kimberley Strassel's Barack or Hillary, which explores which Democratic candidate Republicans would prefer to face.

clarice

He's also suing the Dem party in Texas for not allowing him on the ballot. Hillary is charging that caucus' "disenfranchise" voters as she desperately reaches out for Hispanic voters and single moms in Nevada.


Everytime someone who might support you doesn't make it to the polls apparently, they are "disenfranchised" or "mine!mine! all mine!"

And just in case that doesn't turn on you your sense of injustice , there's always some journo hacks who'll write about which candidate the world would pick if only everyone could vote for the US President.

anduril

OT

It's not Latin or Greek grammar, but still well worth reading and considering: Widespread Warrantless Wiretapping of the American Media?

kim

Now, a, do you suppose we can electronically intercept what foreign intelligence agencies are talking about what is going on in American newsrooms. Is an indirect wiretap of Keller's office illegal?
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anduril

Jay Cost does some number crunching on the New Hampsters, and comes up with some interesting thoughts for the future of this primary season--and into the general election: Clinton v Obama: Moving Forward

One area among the many that he discusses I consider to be particularly important: the Catholic vote. Consider what Cost says:

A similar story can be told about the Catholic population, which also broke decisively for Clinton in New Hampshire. The following chart delineates Super Tuesday states by the percentage of the population that is Catholic.

[Table omitted: follow the link yourself.]

Note the same features. Delegate-heavy states tend also to have many Catholics. And, once again, Catholics tend to be disproportionately Democratic - so their numbers in the primaries will probably be greater than those represented here. The candidate who wins a plurality of the Catholic vote will be well positioned indeed.

Back in the summer I wrote a number of emails to most of the major conservative talk shows about Huckleberry's obvious anti-Catholic animus. No, I wasn't referring the Sam Brownback kerfuffle--I was referring to a WSJ interview in which Huckleberry thought it was relevant to discuss carbon credits by comparing them to what he presented as the Catholic doctrine of indulgences: a kind of get out of jail free card. I thought then and still think that that was bizarre behavior for any politician being interviewed by perhaps the nation's leading newspaper. It is particularly bizarre in a politician seeking the nomination for president from a party that cannot win a general election without substantial support from Catholics--a major part of the old Reagan coalition.

Slow forward over the months since I wrote those emails--which were universally ignored. The GOP has been obsessing over Evangelical voters. These are the types of people with whom many Catholics, myself included, have had highly negative contacts. Contacts in which we are importuned by people who grotesquely misrepresent our faith and tell us that we're not even Christian.

I and other conservative Catholics can look past such knuckleheads but, human nature being what it is, it's worth considering whether the GOP is not, in this primary season, running a risk of identifying itself as the Evangelical party in the eyes of average Catholics--who as Cost notes, make up a substantial demographic in most delegate rich states? Guess what? Those delegate rich states are also electoral college rich states, as well.

Catholics were an extremely important part of the Reagan coalition. Before the GOP alienates a significant partner in that coalition they need to consider whether they have a viable alternative. No, I don't mean the GOP is consciously writing off the Catholic vote, but in the ferment surrounding the Huckleberry candidacy they may be paying insufficient attention to nurturing that relationship. I freely grant that this is a difficult situation, but it's vital. In that regard, it's encouraging to see that GOP candidates in SC are at least talking up the Reagan legacy.

RichatUF

Whoa...I didn't realize that Al Gore headed to Baghadad today.

anduril

kim, to do it you'd need to find out that the direct activity is going on and identify the location from which it's being conducted. Not easy if proper security is maintained.

kim

Race and sex rear their ugly heads on the Dem side, and religion its two faces on the Repub side.
=======================

rogera

Whoa, Kim: We GOPers do OK with sex too, you know: David Vitters, Larry Craig, Bob Livingston, and Mark Foley. We have libidos too!

Patrick R. Sullivan

Maybe the Dem voters have been reading Barack's book. From page 140 of Dreams From My Father:

Pot helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack though--Micky, my potential initiator, had been just a little too eager for me to go through with that. Said he could do it blindfolded, but he was shaking like a faulty engine when he said it. Maybe he was just cold; we were standing in a meat freezer in the back of the deli where he worked....He had pulled out the needle and the tubing...then an image popped into my head of an air bubble, shiny and round like a pearl, rolling quietly through a vein and stopping my heart....

Oh yeah, he was also a racist.

Patrick R. Sullivan

Oops, the first sentence from Barack should have read: Pot had helped.....

rmil

Obama was seeing. Seeing without dreaming. Dreaming is Lucifer damning and so is seeing. This would have been Lucifer warning him about air bubbles in needles and death. Obama should have figured here that Lucifer had him 'made.' He knew what he was involved with and wanted to help. Lucifer is an idiot and a coward. Obama might have explained that he had no intention of shooting up and Lucifer should get out of his head and life.

If they are using a cell phone it's easy. GPS chip and the cell phone codes have been brokenby most intelligence agencies. So, all's you need is to detect the chip, locate the phone,clone it and break the code. You couldlso triangulatebut that's more work when the chip is sitting in the phone identifying it from a satellite.


Sue

Kucinich is asking for a recount in NH? Maybe we should check the emails, text messages or phone calls between Kucinich and Obama.

clarice

Speaking of women's mags and their idiotic copy and obvious agendas:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/01/019514.php

JorgXMcKie

The Maggie Burns link is interesting in that it repeats the Lefty meme that exit polls are 'the most accurate indicator' of the *real* vote short of a hand recount. That is just incredibly bogus. I would have told her that, but the comments are limited to her chosen circle, evidently.

Anyway, exit polls suffer from all the weaknesses as pre-vote polls *except* the 'likely voter' problem. Here you're polling people who you know voted. Aside from that, the problems are the same, PLUS, you get additional problems. First, if you 'randomly' select precincts (and use only 40-50) you either run the risk of getting a very skewed pool or you stratify and further reduce randomness. Second, there is the problem of 'randomly' selecting exiting voters to poll, plus the incidence of refusal from any specific group increases bias. Third, the actual precincts are used for their history to predict this time's outcome, and in addition to the randomness problem, there's no reason except hope to expect history to be a guide, especially when turnout is high.

There are more problems, but exit polls are bright, shiny objects which attract the attention of the MSM and moonbats, near as I can tell.

Other Tom

I invite everyone to go to the URL below and vote "yes." It's the Kos poll on whether NH was rigged, and it now stands at 50% "yes." Love to drive those dopes crazy.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/9/134532/8188/515/433738

clarice

OT, ypu are so deliciously wicked.

Told you our Evita was pressing for the Hispanic vote. Here's her latest:
"Clinton said unscrupulous lending leads to bad mortgages, which lead to foreclosures, which lead to people with nowhere to go and vacant neighborhoods that can go rapidly downhill. "We treat these problems as if one is guacamole and one is chips, when ... they both go together," she said. "

PMII

I personally beieve any time a liberal wins an election (including a primary), it has to be rigged. People have to be smarter than that.


On another note, if you remove the #$E#6 stuff (yes, I know it's long), Ron Paul is right on a number of issues - spending, Dept of Ed, illegals - enforce the law, to name a few.....

PMII

OT,

Thanks for the url

Here's hoping for many pi##ing contests between the 2 in the upcoming weeks

PMII

OT,

Thanks for the url

Here's hoping for many pi##ing contests between the 2 in the upcoming weeks

Jane

OT,

I pushed it to 51%. I should get a prize. I find the wording spectacular: "Diebold steals the election for Hillary". I really want to meet this Diebold character. He sounds powerful.

kim

It's the difference between a secret ballot and one that is not. Sure, news to liberals.
==============

kim

And ooh, the secrets do tell.
=================

PMII

By COB today, I'm sure there will be a special persecutor assigned - maybe 2.

Other Tom

Diebold and Rove, as everyone knows, are thick as thieves. And both have mystical powers.

Meantime, I now make so bold as to declare the winner of the Democratic nomination: it is Hillary. Sorry to take all the suspense out of it, but I had me a vision, see...

But that doesn't mean it won't be a fabulous cartoon to watch in the coming months.

My tinfoil hat is not yet getting a clear signal on the GOP, but Stolichnaya, properly applied, has been known to tweak up the reception. Stay tuned.

RichatUF

PMIII-

...Ron Paul is right on a number of issues - spending, Dept of Ed, illegals - enforce the law, to name a few...

A broken clock is right twice a day. He regularly sides with the most radical leftists in issues regarding national defense, "civil liberities", and immigration. He may talk as a "libertarian", and want pie-in-the-sky solutions, however, his support for some conservative issues is distracting from those issues.

Why any "libertarian" would believe that someone who has been earning a government paycheck for over 20 years would actually support a "libertarian agenda" is beyond me?

And a curious question-has he accepted federal matching funds for his nomination run?

David Rogers

Maybe its not true that "the Hillary puzzle has to be explained by covert racism on the part of New Hampshire Democrats." But it's the Occam's Razor favorite. On top of being the simplest explanation, it has the advantage of being consistent with more than two centuries of Democratic tradition: slavery, segregation, white-flight, race riots are all part and parcel of the Democratic tradition.

While Republicans were literally killing other whites to free black slaves, while Republicans occupied whole states to keep those slaves free and begin their education under Freedmen's Bureaus, while Republicans defeated Democratic efforts to create de jure segregation in Republican states, and while Dwight Eisenhower pushed a Civil Rights Act over Democratic objections, while Nixon pushed racial preferences in hiring, and while Reagan appointed the first black National Security Advisor and Bush appointed the first two black Secretaries of State, the retrograde element in the country has consistently been Democrats.

From Democrat Dixie to Democrat Chicago (the most racist city in America, according to Dr. King) to Democrat New Hampshire, racism is the common theme in two centuries of Democrat tradition.

It sounds to me like someone is trying to hard to excuse Democratic racists. Da Nile isn't just a river in Egypt.

Sue

Last night, when Ron Paul was talking about the Iranian gunboat incident, I was throwing things at the tv. A small boat hurt our big ships? Uh, yeah, USS Cole. Anyway, I read this over at http://ace.mu.nu/archives/251692.php>Ace's. For those of you who aren't used to Ace's style, beware the site sometimes uses dark humor and really bad words. ::grin::

David Rogers

RichatUF

Congressman Paul not only has not accepted federal matching funds for the presidential run, he doesn't even accept all the money the feds allocate for him to run his offices.

As a doctor in private practice, he never accepted Medicaid.

You can say this for him -- he's consistent.

kim

And the Mississippi ain't the only river that blacks have been sold down.
======================

kim

Consistency is the hobgoblin of oh never mind. Besides, accepting or not accepting Medicaid has its own barrelful of motive torquers. And flying Paulites are having a barrelful of monkey fun.
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peterike

"Poorer, less well-educated white people refuse surveys more often than affluent, better-educated whites... But here’s the problem: these whites who do not respond to surveys tend to have more unfavorable views of blacks than respondents who do the interviews."

That's because poorer, less well-educated white people are far more likely to suffer the effects of black people's behavior (the subject that dare not speak its name). Affluent whites have the luxury of rarely encountering the Hood, so they can luxuriate in their own self-conceived moral grandeur and congratulate themselves about how accepting they are of "the other". And since "the other" can't afford to live in their neighborhoods, that's a pretty easy call.

kim

Worse yet, Sue, sometimes they slit stuff. Slippery!
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kim

Don't tell Kohut that 'diversity' makes you want to lie to the poll-taker.
==============

cathyf
Everytime someone who might support you doesn't make it to the polls apparently, they are "disenfranchised"
Yeah -- but did you ever notice that when one "community organizer" forges 50 absentee ballots that never counts in their minds as disenfranchisement of 50 people who took themselves to the polls and voted the other way?
cathyf
He regularly sides with the most radical leftists in issues regarding national defense, "civil liberities", and immigration. He may talk as a "libertarian"
But he doesn't talk as a libertarian. Good heavens, he's against free trade! Against homosexual marriage! And the "hate America first" crap is all strikingly un-libertarian, too -- libertarianism has always been it's most curmudgeonly when defending the Founding Fathers' principles of liberty, which are quite decidedly of the bent that America is the "city on a hill".

Paul has spent 30 years playing cutsie pie games of whether he is a libertarian or a republican, and he doesn't seem to me to be much of either. It amazes me that he ever got the Libertarian Party nomination... I suppose there was a pretty large exodus of the Party when they joined the Reagan coalition (and lots of them actually joined the Reagan Administration.) Must have left mostly the stupidest behind...

glasater

Here is a YouTube video of a Google exec interviewing Ron Paul.
It is lengthy.

anduril

Some links re McCain. First, one that attacks his free speech/pro life record:
Your Speech or Your Life

Next, his record on domestic/economic issues:

The Real McCain Record

And links to posts on another thread, where I linked to an interview with Rick Santorum:

Santorum Rips McCain A New One

and a Human Events editorial endorsing Thompson:

Human Events Endorses Thompson

JM Hanes

Sue:
Ace is sort of like a smarter, funnier, good natured Lenny Bruce. Every once in awhile, when some of his crowd do a real world get together, I'm soooo tempted to show up. Do you suppose he might be surprised by how many grandmotherly types are reading his stuff too?

David Rogers: "As a doctor in private practice, he never accepted Medicaid."

That's not necessarily inconsistent with being a racist either. Assuming he actually accepts any patients at all, an idea that I must admit really creeps me out.

Clarice:
Guacamole and chips...Hillary is definitely going for the Dan Rather Kinko vote. Scuttlebutt has her picking up the Lucy Ramirez endorsement any day now -- confirming her cross cultural appeal to older, low income, Latino women.

JM Hanes

peterike:

"That's because poorer, less well-educated white people are far more likely to suffer the effects of black people's behavior (the subject that dare not speak its name)"

That's where economic pressures and competition for jobs come into play too, and where people feel the crunch. If you look back at the racial violence in Boston a few decades ago, the role that economic uncertainty played in the tensions that erupted seems pretty clear.

Bill in AZ

"Scuttlebutt has her picking up the Lucy Ramirez endorsement any day now -- confirming her cross cultural appeal to older, low income, Latino women."

older Latino? I always guessed Lucy Ramirez (since no one has ever seen her) prolly looks a lot like Larry Johnson.

kim

Wouldn't it be nice if Lucy came up in discovery. Mary! You've got some 'splainin' to do.
====================================

peterike

JM Hanes:

That's where economic pressures and competition for jobs come into play too, and where people feel the crunch. If you look back at the racial violence in Boston a few decades ago, the role that economic uncertainty played in the tensions that erupted seems pretty clear.

Agree completely. Along those lines, it boggles my mind why Republicans don't pursue more black votes by arguing that unchecked immigration puts huge downward pressure on wages in the low-end of the economy. Kind of an anti-immigration class warfare approach.

I mean, if you can find a Republican that's actually against unchecked immigration. They're kinda thin on the ground lately.

JM Hanes

peterike:

At the moment, I think they're too busy trying to defend themselves against the "nativist" slam by prominently insisting that they're only against illegal immigration. In general, however, I think they're justifiably conflicted over whether a "protectionist" stance on immigration really accords with "free market" principles.

At the other end of the equation, the immediate benefits of victim status just seem easier to sell than the long term benefits of self-reliance, alas. In large part, however, its also because the ideological struggle within the party itself which is coming to surface now has really been going on for years. That has seriously inhibited any coherent effort to attract new constituencies, a need which has been trumped by factional efforts to shore up/and or expand positions within the existing coalition.

Topsecretk9

--Wouldn't it be nice if Lucy came up in discovery. Mary! You've got some 'splainin' to do.
====================================

Posted by: kim | January 11, 2008 at 02:52 PM=


that's funny kim.

clarice

NH is hand counting all the primary ballots. OT and Kos win.

Other Tom

Hey, man, it's Helter Skelter! From the Politico:

"A series of comments from Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, her husband and her supporters are spurring a racial backlash and adding a divisive edge to the presidential primary as the candidates head south to heavily African-American South Carolina.

"The comments, which ranged from the New York senator appearing to diminish the role of Martin Luther King Jr. in the civil rights movement — an aide later said she misspoke — to Bill Clinton dismissing Sen. Barack Obama’s image in the media as a fairy tale' — generated outrage on black radio, black blogs and cable television. And now they've drawn the attention of prominent African-American politicians."

The Dream Scenario edges closer to reality.

clarice

OT,I told you those little dolls and pins were MAGIC.

JM Hanes

Hey, OT had henchmen too!

hit and run

The comments, which ranged from the New York senator appearing to diminish the role of Martin Luther King Jr. in the civil rights movement — an aide later said she misspoke ...

Well, and here is the real score for Obama in getting the Kerry endorsement. Kerry would know just what to do when he's put his foot in his mouth...

It was a botched joke, of course.

"You know being a leader in the civil rights movement, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get shot by an escaped convict."

clarice

AHA,Rove,you bastard, now we've got you!
From Newsbusters:"Insisting he's “not a conspiracy theorist,” Bill Maher, on the Friday night season debut of his HBO show, suggested that because Republicans prefer to run against Hillary Clinton than Barack Obama they engineered her victory in New Hampshire's Democratic primary."


Stephen Rose

It is too early to draw the conclusions of this post. They may or may not tell the whole story. Hillary had last minute out of state financial help. The most documented potential explanation remains the "Bradley effect".

http://stephencrosehome.blogspot.com/2008/01/last-minute-outside-money-helped.html

clarice

Well, Stephen, I am unpersuaded of that.
Maybe the fact that the night before the primary Blumenthal was in the slammer...

Primary polling has always been iffy--and in a cross over state like New Hampshire with a you'all come up and vote law that permits true non-residents to show up and vote without preregistration, it's probably a special kind of crap shoot.

Jor

There have no been multiple theories posited about what happened with the pre-election polls in NH, and none of them are really all too plausible on their own. It definitely looks to me it was probably multi-factorial, with all the posited reasons playing some role, but i haven't seen anything convincing that one reason or the other was the MAIN reason for the poll discrepency.

BLACKS/ AFRICAN AMERICANS VOTING FOR HILLARY CLINTON

BLACKS/ AFRICAN AMERICANS VOTING FOR HILLARY CLINTON.
I happen to like Hillary but as a Black/African American woman I will never vote for a white women over a black man. This is why:
1- As a Corporate American black woman and Business Owner in the USA, I have never been fairly promoted or recognized fairly by a white woman. I’ve been better qualified than many and white women have enviously overlook me, however asking or demanding me to train or assist her/ them with my knowledge and network????????
2- I have never been hired by a white woman unless she was directed to do so; and if I was hired I was Greatly cold-bloodedly sabotage during the process.
3- In corporate American there is a huge amount of Rank pulling to say the least against the blacks.
4- As Hillary is an 'Idol' to many of which the bible ten commandments warns us of idols. but like I was saying Hillary is a great person and she will always be working to do better anyway- So being the president will not be a big deal.

CAN YOU AMAGINGE and you wasn’t born yesterday how white women would treat black women if Hillary was in office??? THINK ABOUT IT... White women are for themselves, then their white men, then OUR BLACK MEN (NEED I GO INTO DETAILS).

White women are INTIMIDATED BY SMART, ATTRACTIVE, STRONG BLACK WOMEN and will ALWAYS RESENT THEM and be JEALOUS OF THEM.....

JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. We all know this is not ULTIMATELY intended to happen as such but when a group of people get control things CHANGE and sometimes for the worst.

So, to all you Blacks who love Hillary think about what is stated here. She is a great person, but just like them--- WHEN THE SH*T HIT THE FAN THEY PULL RANKS AND SUPPORT THERE OWN.

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO STOP BEING DICTATED TO AND DICTATE FOR OURSELVES THIS IS THE TIME TO GIVE OUR ANCESTORS WHAT WAS COLD-BLOODEDLY SABOTAGED AWAY FROM THEM BACK.

WHITES HAVE HAD THERE TIME NOW IT IS OURS. LOOK AROUND THEY ARE TAKING OVER OUR LIVES, CULTURE- BIG LIPS, BIG ASSES IMPLANTS- TANNING IS A BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS- OUR MUSIC- OUR DANCING………………..

YOU REMEMBER WHEN THEY HATED US FOR THIS AND WHEN THEY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST US BECAUSE OF THIS??????

AND YOU KNOW WHAT---- EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE TRYING TO BLEND THEY STILL DON’T LIKE US ENOUGH TO BE 100% FAIR AND NON-DISCRIMINATORY TOWARDS US.

THEY DON’T EVEN KNOW WHO THEY ARE!!!!!!!!

AMERICA IS SUPPOSED TO BE A LAND OF LAWS AND LOOK HOW THEY SUPPORTED BUSH AND CHANEY BREAKING LAWS OVER AND OVER AGAIN-- AND WILL SAY THEY DONE NO WRONG. When the democrats do win, then they will decide it’s time to follow the laws they wrote. Talk about flip flop.

kim

Uh, it's Cheney.
=========

wordtodawise

Barack Obama, an equal opportunity candidate.

It's obvious that Obama is not white enough and certainly not black enough. He does however presents himself as an equal opportunity candidate.

There's a piece of him for the white color conscious voter and a piece of him for the black color conscious voter. It would be nice if race was not a factor but let's not kid ourselves; we are all not so blind.

For the first time, African-Americans are presented with a candidate who shares their heritage and has a legitimate chance to be nominated and eventually elected president of the United States.

Obama is not an ordinary candidate. He is specially gifted and standing head to head with Hillary, is far superior both in judgment, character and intellectual endowment. He also has sufficient relevant experience to make good decisions where others like Hillary failed. Moreover, he will do more for blacks than Hillary will ever do.

Blacks should not allow themselves to be held back by fear and self doubt and be misguided into voting for Hillary instead of Obama. If Iowa can do it, why can't they?

Blacks are intelligent enough to know that simply being black is no grounds to be supported. Heaven knows there are enough ineffective black individuals parading as leaders out there. Obama without a doubt is as qualified a candidate for the White house as there is on the campaign trail.

The tag teams of Bill and Hillary Clinton have mounted a serious negative campaign to diminish the stature of Obama. They have introduced the race and gender cards in an effort to bait and destroy him.

They have also turned loose all the big media dogs to intensify their attacks on Obama. In other words, the Clinton machine is in full war mode and will take no prisoners.

This is the moment for African-Americans to stand for something. This is the time to make their vote count. If they capitulate to the Clintons and allow themselves to be duped into selecting Hillary, then they will be for a long time relegated to the bottom. The Latinos are coming.

Blacks should not allow themselves to be pimped by the Clintons. They should free themselves from mental slavery and exercise wisdom by giving Obama victory. They should reject any so called leaders who may try to persuade them from doing the right thing.

Blacks should cease this moment and set a new course for their future. Let's face it; Obama is the closest blacks will ever come to having a black president. Bill Clinton is not black and never was. Remember also that Hillary is no Bill and therefore, doesn't deserve any blind allegiance.

Help defeat the Clinton machine, select Obama and set the stage for change. That's the challenge to blacks

clarice

Heh--In Nevade (per instapundit) an Obama precinct capt is urging reps and indeies to become Dems for a day just to vote against Hillary.

Topsecretk9

Heh--In Nevade (per instapundit) an Obama precinct capt is urging reps and indeies to become Dems for a day just to vote against Hillary.

Double Dutch Daily Kos Heh.

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