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January 23, 2008

Comments

Merrilyn

Great post.

kim

All these fakirs winging it with the breeze off the press; only Romney has a plan to pre-empt the press. Well, Fred did too, but poor fella, he is not just honest, but ingenuous, something with which Mitt will not be charged.
==========================

Ann

This is so delicious on so many levels, because I asked my husband when he came home from work tonight (long before this post) why do men hate Mitt? Is it his hair, his wealth, his great family and wife, his religion? My husbands reply was something like "its a gut feeling". What does that mean? As I pointed out to my husband, you don't raise five boys, have eight grand children, still love your wife, believe in god and country without some core principals and goodness.

I think the men at JOM are going to have to answer this question not the women.

Syl

Romney is an outsider. That's all. He doesn't belong to any of the same social, political, ideological clubs and think tanks.

So Mitt is everyone's Rorschach and it looks like everyone sees something different.

mefolkes

Hey, now that Fred has dropped out of the race, I'm a solid supporter of Mitt. I'm so happy that I provide something for someone like you to laugh about. I previously held this blog in high esteem.

kim

Aw Hell, it's easy; whoever likes the Boss?
====================

kim

But you don't have to be scared of the Boss, like if it were Hillary, and your Boss doesn't have to be crazy, sorry OT for that Swift Kick in the Boat, but it is good that the Boss you envy and dislike is keeping the company together so you get a paycheck.
============================

glasater

I would like to echo--Great Post Mr. Maguire. Also, terrific comment Ann.
I like the way Mitt Romney campaigns. It is far better then I have seen from any of the other candidates.
I do not understand why it is that mentioning an opponents name in a campaign ad is an attack.
That person's name must be mentioned if one opposes the particular position.

MichelleK

I have to agree with Ann's husband, it's a gut feeling. Maybe you have to be very perceptive but there are people that right off the bat you know not to trust. As for the wife & family, personally I think his wife looks a little plain & soccer mom-ish. I think that Cindy McCain is beautiful and so is their daughter for that matter. She has more elegance than Mrs.Romney. I don't think he is great looking either. Actually I think his head looks large for his body. For me, I am just really bugged that some say he is the conservative and turn their head when you question his "I will do more for gays than Kennedy" for example. He just reminds me of Kerry only republican. He changed too many positions in the name of running for President for me to be able to put any faith in him. Yes, he raised children but so does most of America so that hardly means anything. I think that Huckabee is probably the most far right candidate on the social issues if thats what you are looking for. Romney just has that say anything to get elected thing going on and its very transparent. He is just not going to win a general election.

Ralph L

This NRO article gives one explanation. In "Boots" vs. "Suits", Boots wins, and Mitt is definitely a Suit. He needs to break out the earth tones!

Tom Maguire

This is so delicious on so many levels, because I asked my husband when he came home from work tonight (long before this post) why do men hate Mitt?

Interesting question, but... do we?

Glancing at the New Hampshire and S Carolina exit polls I would say that Romney is pretty gender-neutral.

Huckabee does better among Rep women (no surprise) and Ron Paul does much better with men (also no surprise). In SC, Fred Thompson was also a guy's candidate.

But Romney doesn't seem to have a gender gap.

Jim in Chicago

MichelleK hit the nail on the head:

"He just reminds me of Kerry only republican."

I'd add it's even worse than that. He's like a Kerry/Edwards combo.

Yeck.

Ralph L

I would say that Romney is pretty gender-neutral
That can be interpreted any number of ways--many of which would upset Mrs. Romney. Talk about flip-flopping.

Ralph L

If you could see my half-a-head of hair, you would call it sour grapes, but I'm put off by the Baptist minister hairdo.

embee

I have seen three different McCain ads here, obviously he approves of this thread. Paid for by John McCain 2008.

JM Hanes

They hate him because they can't imagine having a beer with him -- and they don't think he looks like he'd want to have a beer with them either, if he even drinks beer.....

There are all sorts of political reasons for hating Romney; the part that I don't get is why the press hates Romney, because they're really controlling the adjectives here. Amy Goldstein isn't half as funny as folks like Ron Fournier. As I noted then, when Romney talks "research on energy, fuels, automotive technology and material sciences" to Michigan voters, Fournier dismisses it as "empty rhetoric." McCain, of course, is all straight talk: "Instead of pandering, McCain said political leaders must 'embrace green technologies'" to cure what ails Detroit.

When it comes to who is going relentlessly negative on whom, the press coverage on Romney beats the candidate's ads all hollow. Maybe McCain doesn't get tarred for flip flopping on his immigration bill, because nobody can figure out which one of the eleventy seven modified limited hangouts he's actually talking about at any given point in time. The putative skinny on Romney, however, is pretty short on substance too.

Corey Cronrath

This as a great thread. I'm with McCain all the way, though I realize that he is disliked by many conservatives. In fact, I share some of their concerns(CFR,Immigration, ANWAR).However, I am sick and tired of Romney getting a pass from conservative blogs and the MSM. People question how a conservative can support McCain, but I keep hearing that conservatives support Romney. How can anyone with half a brain not see that this guy is a complete phony who will say and do ANYTHING to win. I do not want smeone who decides his 'core' beliefs by opinion polls in charge of the National Security of this greatnation in a time of war(didn't work very well in the 90's!). McCain:low taxes with low spending, pro-life, strict constructionist, strong military. They used to call that 'conservative' if memory serves...

Jane

I met two chaps who had raised major bucks for Romney in the 90's. They were quick to use the word "hate" in describing their current feelings towards him, and cited his lurch to the right on social issues, as well as his retirement on active duty while ostensibly Governor of MA.

AS opposed, I guess, to our current governor who is on active duty and doesn't let a day go by without raising a tax or increasing a fee.

Are your friends complaining about less government TM? It sure sounds like it.

syn

Romney may be perceived as 'phoney' but McCain was 'phoney'. The candidate the media loves the most is the one I most distrust.

Now that Fred's out, Rudy is my next choice. I figure that if Methodist ministers are prefectly willing to endorse politicans who vote for things like abortion and lawlessness then it really makes no difference whether the President is pro-choice or not. Vice-versa, just because a candidate is pro-life doesn't make his vicious progressive Left ideals any less evil.

Plus, Rudy has the spine necessary to stick it both to vicious progressive Leftists and Islamofascists.

In any case, nominating McCain/or Huckabee is the same as nominating an Al Gore's Greenie groupie so I rather have a democrat held responsible for a high Misery Index; I can survive four years of Misery and since I live in the city twice attacked I'm prepared for what's to come.

Dennis D

If not for Amnesty I would be supporting John McCain. But he cannot be trusted with securing borders. I will support Mitt unless Rudy gains more support.

Cory

Fred's out and the liberals Huckabigot and McAmnesty must be stopped. Go Mitt!

windansea

heh, they can't find any dirt on Mitt so all they got is his religion and this "hate" meme

personally I like the fact that these bloated pols like McCain don't like him, he's not part of the "club" thats been robbing us blind for years.

anyway, I don't care if Mitt is popular with the pols or the press, I am looking for a manager not a prom king.

centralcal

First - with Fred out, I am now supporting Mitt.

Could a lot of people not like Romney because of his success in the business world? Stop and think for a moment, of all the really successful, rich, businessmen you can. Wouldn't you find many of them equally admired and hated? Is it due to that perception of "successful?"

His "success" is always presented as a result of his business acumen, rather than his political acumen -- unlike nearly all of the other candidates. I think that is what many are jealous and dismissive of.

Rick Ballard

"But he cannot be trusted with securing borders."

Among many, many other things with which he should not be entrusted. His disloyalty to the party from which he seeks the nomination is the highest bar that he must lie his way accross. In the event that he possesses the ability to defeat RW (which I sincerely doubt), he would be dealing with a Senate which, even if Republicans regained the majority, would profer him no support sufficient to enact a "McCain program". Aside from a program which gained initial support from Feingold and Kennedy, of course.

If he possessed the minimum competence necessary to actually formulate a program and could focus long enough finish a proposal, it would resemble nothing so much as CFR or the fatuous immigration bill.

Romney has a low Q (so does McCain, although his extraordinary age and obvious infirmities garner him higher negatives than does his lack of appeal) but Bushes have won three out of the last five elections with Qs as low or lower.

This evening's debate should be very interesting. It's about time that the health and age issue gets tossed on the table because it certainly will be in the general if McCain or Rudy is the candidate.

Bill in AZ

I suspect a lot of folks don't like Romney because the MSM lays these little "memes" out there for people to stick in the back of their heads - sort of a subliminal messaging. The same thing they did with Fred, who they were absolutely scared to death of. If they ever mentioned his name at all, it was always in association with "too late to start", "too laid back", etc, then would never cover him to make sure the memes stayed true. Sure enough, folks would pick up on it and make it "fact" - even conservative bloggers.

The fact MSM is doing the same thing with Romney means he is the next most feared target, which says Romney must be OK. I honestly haven't paid much attention to him, being pro-Fred and anti-McCain. But if the MSM wants to target him, that's a ringing endorsement to me. Ultimately electable?? I don't know... I'm not sure any reps are now. I would just as soon he went head to head against Hillary than Obama. Obama is too much American Idol for any of the Rep candidates. Hillary at least gives half of the country a target rich environment.

Bill in AZ

heh heh - but I already voted for Fred in the AZ primary, the morning before he withdrew...

centralcal

Bill in AZ: You are right about the MSM. Always watch for who they build up and who they tear down to tell you exactly what they're thinking and worried about.

They also revealed in NH what they are thinking about the Clintons, because they were convinced (albeit by their own choir voices) that she was being defeated. When she pulled out the win, they had left themselves exposed and have scurried back under cover (some more effectively, than others).

McCain is the MSM's man. He always has been. He always will be. He is exactly what they are wishing, hoping, and praying for. Of course, they tried it with Huckster too - but he imploded too soon.

kim

McCain won't implode. The 'plode' part is right.
==============

vnjagvet

The old MSM "reverse english" play. Beware any time anyone with established MSM credentials lauds a Republican.

Keep in mind that the MSM loved Adlai Stephenson over Ike, and even loved Carter over Reagan.

On the other hand, in 1996, Bobdole got pretty good coverage from the MSM ("it was his turn") if I recall correctly, whereas Jack Kemp and others were given the silent treatment.

windansea

Mcgrouchy is a code red moment away from cratering.

You're damn right I ordered the amnesty!!

Other Tom

I have an intense, visceral and instinctive dislike for Romney, and I can't do much better than the simple "gut feeling" formulation. Trust me, it has nothing to do with the MSM--for the life of me, I couldn't tell you what the MSM is saying or not saying about him. It is based entirely on what I see on the tube, very predominantly Brit Hume. And I don't mean what the All-Stars say, I mean the clips of Romney that I see. And for what it's worth, my beloved sister, lifelong Republican, has exactly the same reaction.

And I'll say it again--and again and again, and never stop saying it: whether my gut feeling is fair or unfair, it is shared by enough people that this man cannot and will not be elected president. Take that to the bank. So if the GOP nominates Mitt Romney it is electing Hillary Clinton. Not a good move.

clarice

He seems somehow very inauthentic to me. On the other hand Hill seems like an authentic grifter and Obama like an authentic neophyte so I can live with him.

MayBee

I believe Romney would make a very good president. He is an accomplished and successful man.
I don't know why, but I can't get myself to care about him. I fear much of the electorate would feel the same way if it came to voting for him vs. Obama! or Hillary!
Romney just seems so....Republican. The stereotype of Republican, I mean. I don't think he could pull the number of excited voters he would need to beat the two !'s.

oak

Mitt Romney's successful results in business and child-rearing are well-noted. He appears well-able to handle the media. Honestly, I remain undecided as to which candidate possesses the most-needed skills for steering our country through crisis and conflict, at home and abroad.

Rick Ballard

MayBee,

Something for all taxpayers to hate.

The jumbo cap will get raised though - just as I hoped.

centralcal

Other Tom: "I have an intense, visceral and instinctive dislike for Romney..."

I respect that feeling. It is the same one I have for McCain.

If McCain wins, which you predict he would do against Hillary, what is the upside for our side? War on terror? Judges? Immigration? Economy?

With the exception of WOT, would he really be all that different from Billary? I am not asking this as snark. I am very seriously concerned.

Ann

OK, this is even better. Pressing my husband to explain "gut feeling"
further, he came up with this: "It's like the guy in high school that gets all the good looking girls. You know he is lying and cheating to get them put you can't prove it." :)

MayBee

Thanks, Rick
likely individuals earning $75,000 or less and couples with incomes of $150,000 or less.

Now let's watch as the couple making $149,000 become "rich" when we begin talking tax increases again.
Here's a rebate. Now pay more toward social security.

MikeS

Mitt does give me a vibe similar to the vibe I got from Eddie Haskel who was a character on the "Leave it to Beaver" TV show.

I haven't been 'inspired' by any of the top three Republicans, but I could easily vote for any of them as an administrator or a 'custodial' President.

Brainster

The Amy Goldstein reads like the first draft of a high school essay by an infatuated teenager. The only think missing are the hearts.

cmblake6

The displeasure with Mitt seems based on indoctrination. The MSM says they LOVE McVain and Huckleberry. They caused FRED!s drop-out by media exclusion. The one true hope, and they bounced him. Now Mitt. But they can't beat him because he's got the big bucks. But the very fact that the MSM loves the others, the demoncraps speak so highly of McV & H should tell you everything you need to know. THEY don't like Mitt because he, after FRED!, is the best hope. Experienced businessman, just may save us from the D-planned financial suicide of the upper-class.

Other Tom

I posted this response to Centralcal's questions on the wrong thread. Here's a repeat:

Centralcal, I think the principal difference between McCain and Romney is that McCain has a good chance of winning in November, whereas Romney has no chance whatsoever.

McCain would differ sharply from Hillary in the WOT, which is the principal issue for me. The federal judiciary is the number two issue, and again, they would differ sharply in that McCain will not nominate Laurence Tribe, Janet Reno, Lani Guinier, Stephen Reinhardt or Harry Pregerson to the Supreme Court, whereas Hillary might well nominate any or all of them. And stand by for a horde of radical feminists on the lower federal courts, from Eleanor Holmes Norton to Gloria Allred to that whacked-out woman from the University of Michigan.

I don't spend much time worrying about immigration, and don't understand why so many others do. And I've never felt that any president can or does have much impact on the economy, with the notable exceptions of Herbert Hoover and Ronald Reagan.

Bad news for those musing about having a beer with Romney: Mormons don't drink.

Ann

Nine "Lawyers for Fred" [Kathryn Jean Lopez] NRO
join Romney.

Lawyers Like Mitt

RichatUF

Amy Goldstein ♥'s Mitt Romney

centralcal

Other Tom: I listed the issues in my order of importance and I see we agree on 1st and 2nd.

That illustrious list of potential SCOTUS and lower court nominees for Billary troubles me greatly too. But I am concerned that there is a high probability that McCain's list would only be marginally better.

Anyway, I do appreciate you taking the time to answer.

I'm sticking with Romney.

It is way too soon, probably for this question, but do you see any potential VP candidate with Rommey that might alter your concerns?

For me it doesn't really matter who McCain picks. He is an egotist, will never share any substantial duties, probably not even consult much with HIS choice -- who will be consigned to a closet. For McCain the VP choice will only be to help him get elected.

 RAH

I believe that a lot of the visceral dislike of Romney is that "gut" feeling. Basically he looks great and well groomed and never seems to lose his cool. He has a constant smile. Some refer it to plastic. He was brought up in a very upper class home with constant pressure to behave with good manners. That accounts for that feeling of distance.
Basically he looks aristocratic and many have the base feeling of envy. He is too smart, too succesfull, family is too great etc. Many men feel badly in comparison. My own husband could not stand to see a family video of Romney on his family farm starting off a 6 am with such energy and he was 59 at the time. It made my husband feel bad. Now many women like a rogue and Romney is not a rogue.

I do not feel smaller if Romney is so smart, I have always liked smart men so that does not put me off. I like a man that is sucessful. I am not a religous person so his being LDS does not offend my religous beliefs.

Also Romey is pragmatic and he is basically conservative from his upbringing. His economics philiosophy was honed in a capitalistic venue. So he is a capitalist and not a socialist.

Other than that, he can be fluid and probably does not have the conservative principles well internalized. Like gun control. Lived most of his adult life is Massuchusettes and has absorbed the idea that guns are bad because only bad people are using guns in crime. So a good idea to limit guns. Many people think that way and it takes a bit of deep thinking to come to the realization that if people are to be trusted with governing themselves , they have to be trusted with the use of weapons.

If people can not be trusted to use weapons properly then maybe the basis of our government needs to be examined.

So he has no issue with hunters and people having a gun at home, but can't see why people should have military style weapons. He has not absorbed the concept that free people can have any thing they choose, even if they do not have a practical need for it.

Romney is a conservative but does not have the charisma that Mike Huckabee has, that makes it so easy to like Huckabee, even if you disagree with his economic populism.

glasater

I can survive four years of Misery
To me the economy, WOT--read safety--and other things are in place so that everything isn't going to go to heck when a new administration takes office no matter which party it is. It is what is enacted down the road thereafter.

Other Tom

Glasater, don't forget the Supreme Court. Stevens is going to be replaced during the next four years, and possibly Ginsburg as well. And keep in mind the lower federal courts, too. Those appointments are for life; they don't evaporate after four years.

Centralcal, I've come around to the view that VP choices rarely make a difference to the electorate, and I don't think they do with me either. But I'd rather see Thompson than anyone else in sight.

Seixon

Romney is an outsider. That's all. He doesn't belong to any of the same social, political, ideological clubs and think tanks.

Which is exactly why, he, like Obama, is hated/loved.

With McCain, all I have to say is - immigration. Think about it folks. Plus he is mean, like in an old grumpy man kind of way.

hit and run

I think Other Tom and I line up pretty squarely on things Mitt. Though I am probably only 75% of where he is and where he ends up. But that's Other Tom: Toujours, L'audace!

I'm Other Tom-lite!
(whoops, no exclamation point, it would be much too bold)

I think it very disingenuous when people say that if you don't like Mitt then one or more must be true 1) you're a religious bigot; 2) you take cues knowingly or not from the MSM; 3) you are jealous of a brilliant, successful, handsome, man.

And when those arguments are employed against non-Mitt supporters, it does nothing but drive them (us? not sure, because there's that 25% of me that exists, and will probably end up at Mitt eventually) further away from the man and his candidacy.

hit and run

Ann:
Pressing my husband to explain "gut feeling"
further, he came up with this: "It's like the guy in high school that gets all the good looking girls. You know he is lying and cheating to get them put you can't prove it."

I would put it more like this...He's like the guy in high school that figures out the hot cheerleader likes poetry, so he goes and checks out all the books on poetry he can find and makes sure she sees him reading them. But then, when a new hot girl moves into town and starts at school -- he discovers she likes chick flicks, so he heads on off to Blockbuster and...

Hey...for all I know that's an MSM implanted thought, to which I am especially susceptible because of my deep-seated if unconscious hatred of Mitt's looks and riches and my evangelical experience that has ingrained an acute if subconscious anti-Mormon bigotry.

clarice

Think of Reid, Pelosi, Waxman, Conyers et al with a Dem in the WH. Hold your nose and vote for whoever gets the Rep nomination.
Love,
Mom

Porchlight

Pretty much, Clarice. There's just about nothing that would make me stay home this year. Except Huckabee getting the nomination, maybe, but that's not going to happen.

hit and run

I will support whoever is nominated on the republican side. I won't even be holding my nose.

That is, unless Uncommitted goes third party and makes an independent run.

glasater

I appreciate all three leading candidates and McCain's bench--with Phil Gramm in there--is impressive.
The bureaucracy in DC is a major concern of mine and which one could diminish that power the best is the one I tend to gravitate to. Tell me McCain is that person.
It is unbelievable that the CIA for the past six years could wage such a war as it has against this President.
There are some serious problems with all the various departments and it has just got to change somehow.

windansea

for all the Mitt-doubters who think he can't win in the general

1. forget national polls, Romney has won more actual votes than anyone else.

2. national polls are meaningless at this point, a month ago Rudy was leading them all

3. In January 1980 Carter led Regan 60% to 30%

4. Think Mitt is a glib pandering phony, read this and try to imagine any other presidential candidate NOT bringing a camera crew along.

clic on the pics and you can see Mitt with his hair messed up if you have RHDS

centralcal

Gosh, have you all noticed that Giuliani has completely fallen off the radar vis-a-vis comments here? Surely an omen.

centralcal

Terrific link, windansea!

centralcal

Terrific link, windansea!

centralcal

Sorry for the stuttering. My internet connection was hanging up.

Ann

Hit,

I hope you don't think I am accusing anyone of anything just because they don't like Mitt. I just found it fascinating that so many guys did not like Mitt and were hard pressed to explain why.

What's troubling to me is that my husband got the hot chick at our high school. IMHO :)

hit and run

No, Ann, I don't think that. I do think it's sweet that you and your husband met in highschool!

windansea -- thank you for presenting your argument regarding Mitt as a case that stands on its own, and not tied to some theory on what the underlying root causes of the Mitt doubters' doubts are.

hit and run

Oh, and by the way, windansea -- mrs hit and run was watching some show -- some silly "reality" real estate show where people look at 3 houses and decide which one to make an offer on -- usually it is in CA, but this time it was in Mexico (Cabo). She said..."hey it's a lot less expensive than I thought. Maybe we should just sell everything and move down there".

I said yes. But maybe in 13 years when the kids are out of the house.

[VIMH: Hah! You hope they're out of the house then]
Dood. I'll change the locks.

windansea

no problemo H&R

a little honey attracts more bees

Rasmussen Markets data suggests that McCain has a 40.5% chance of winning in Florida while Romney is given a 56.5% chance. Immediately following his victory in South Carolina, McCain was given a 70% chance of winning Florida. But, expectations for the Arizona Senator have declined in recent days. According to the markets, Giuliani is a distant third with a 8.0% chance of victory. Numbers in this paragraph are from a prediction market, not a poll.

mitt surges on Intrade

windansea

we have a project in Cabo also, but it's twice as expensive as Vallarta

personally I like Vallarta a lot more, more diverse, more real Mexico, and less expensive to visit or live

MayBee

She said..."hey it's a lot less expensive than I thought. Maybe we should just sell everything and move down there".

I watched the same show. I said the same thing.

JM Hanes

Hit/Maybee: A lot folks aren't just saying the same thing, they're doing it. Retirement $$ go a lot further in Mexico.

hit and run

I WANNA BE MAYBEE'S NEIGHBOR!!!

(BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF GIVING UP JM HANES' NEIGHBOR!!!)

WHY AM I SHOUTING!?!?!!

glasater

I've traveled pretty extensively and spent quantities of time in Mexico and love the country and people. But I don't think with the current decline in the value of the dollar it's all the cheap to live there if you want to maintain the same quality of life here in the US.
If you can reduce your standard of living it would be much cheaper to live there.
One thing that really bothers me is the litter. It is absolutely everywhere. They should never have allowed plastic bags to be produced.
And it helps to speak some basic Spanish.

windansea

But I don't think with the current decline in the value of the dollar it's all the cheap to live there if you want to maintain the same quality of life here in the US.

the peso is pegged to the dollar so it doesn't really matter, tight now we are getting 11.7 pesos to dollar

yes litter can be a problem here, I live in a pretty expensive area where it is kept clean.

speaking spanish helps for sure, but lots of my friends here only know a little

MayBee


I WANNA BE MAYBEE'S NEIGHBOR!!!

(BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF GIVING UP JM HANES' NEIGHBOR!!!)

WHY AM I SHOUTING!?!?!!

JMH will come to Mexico, too.
We'll make good neighbors. I loooove margaritas.

glasater

windansea--I was wondering if you had picked up on my brief observation of Mexico.
Was in Puerto Vallart in '94 right when the currency crisis hit. For a couple of weeks I lived like absolute royalty but it was so sad to see what the ordinary folks were dealing with.

JM Hanes

windansea:

I've been spending my time over on the east coast, and have been interested in how little English is spoken on the Merida side of the Yucatan. The ex-pat community there is still pretty small, although it's clearly growing. They're the ones who are restoring the colonial section of the city, house by house.

It doesn't take long to discover why it's so easy for Mexicans to get along in the States without speaking the language -- when you do your household shopping, you just go to Walmart, Sam's Club, Home Depot & Staples, and you'll find everything in exactly the same aisles that you find it at home. The only difference is that Walmart Merida has a pastry department you can't even walk through without adding a gazillion calories to your shopping cart. The anti-globalization folks have flat out lost that battle.

cathyf
"hey it's a lot less expensive than I thought. Maybe we should just sell everything and move down there".
Really? How does it compare to this: linky? Folks speak English there, two...
sophy

Please do not hesitate to have Metin2 gold . It is funny.

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