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February 19, 2008

Comments

MayBee

David Shuster suggested that All Americans should be proud of Chelsea Clinton, so perhaps that could be our great unifier.

Sue

TM,

Maybe it is because that is a phrase that has been repeated, ad nauseum, since Bush took office, but to me, it doesn't rise to the level of Michell Obama's statement. Hillary is talking partisan politics. That is a clear shot at Bush/Cheney.

Now, I need to go spit after defending Hillary.

bgates

Following a discussion of Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Taylor Marsh with an approving cite of a time "when men were men"...I am proud of America, but maybe I would be a little prouder if one of its top bloggers could have phrased that more gracefully ;)

anduril

I remember the last time Hillary was in the WH, and I wasn't terribly proud of our leadership and their moral authority. I wonder, when she suggests that we will once again be proud of our leadership and moral authority, how far back is she going to the last time? If she gets another chance, will she allow humble government servants like Billy Dale to run a travel office without being smeared by her? Will she take a pledge on that?

MikeS

I, for one, am extremely proud of the hope, the change, and the audacity that ... zzz.

Jane

Someone ask Mrs. Obama is she has taught her children to be ashamed of their country.

I dunno, I think that remark really hurts Obama with independents. He is gonna have to straighten it out, which for many will make it worse.

It's funny, both Hill and Barack's spouses are tanking them. Maybe Michele should marry Bill and Hill should marry Barack.

bgates

It's an unforced error by both of them. If they had said they hadn't been proud of the government since ___, or they would restore pride in the executive branch, they would have had run-of-the-mill partisan political statements. The problem is, they equate America with the government, and if possible with themselves. "L'etat, C'est moi," is how I believe John Kerry would have put it.

Cecil Turner

Yep, unforced error. And though Hillarity may have trouble blasting Obama with it, the GOP will have no such difficulty. Moreover, it (as well as the Che poster in campaign office, and the silly "invade Pakistan" remarks) plays to his primary weakness: a lack of credibility on national defense. Get a couple more, and they'll make a nice montage.

(Cindy McCain piles on and gets some coverage on it.)

GMax

Isn't funny how neither of the nitwits can really take on the other on their weaknesses? because when they do, some wiseguy wants to know exactly their own qualifications on the matter. When your resume is a little thin, you dont point out another candidates similarly short resume, unless you want the job to go to the candidate with a long resume.

So lack of experience? Oops hard to discuss. Not much legislative accomplishment, oops same problem. Bashing America, well never mind what I had to say on the matter recently, really.

maryrose

Obama had a crowd of 6000 yesterday in Youngstown.
Have you heard the latest- Hil will go after Obama's pledged delegates. what a piece of work she is. The problem is no one can get these two clowns-Bill and Hil off the stage. lokk at Huckabee1 No one will make him stop. Don't these candidates have any pride. Clintons have no moral compass and are loathe to give up their strands of power in the DNC. A sad state of affairs. The good news ; In the teens in Wisconsin . I guess all Hil's little old ladies won't venture ut to vote.

maryrose

should be out.

Pofarmer

Can somebody help me out with the reference to "kafhkaesque", well, at least how to spell it properly so I can search it. Need a little background.

Should be doing accounting.;0)

GMax

PO

Franz Kafka wrote some very bizarre books, including one where the prtagonistic was on trial but could not find out what he had done only that it was "very bad". A simile for sinister and bizarre behavior is Kafkaesque.

OT

Get this, proof there really is a God:

While pursuing his thus far quixotic quest for the presidency, Congressman Paul has fallen behind by over ten points in the polls (43-32) in the fight for the Republican nomination in the Texas 14th to challenger Chris Peden, according to internal polls from both campaigns, which Pajamas Media was told were quite similar. Peden is a 43-year old CPA and city councilman from Friendswood, Texas. The primary takes place on March 4.

He is going to be thrown out by Republicans. Maybe the Dems who were pushing him will adopt him? Not likely they just used him and he is of little use any more.

Rick Ballard

"kafhkaesque" - Kafkaesque is a reference to any trial conducted under Fitzlaw. Franz Kafka wrote about Fitzlaw in his book The Trial, just before 1920, showing an eerie prescience concerning the future that would have turned Nostradamus green with envy.

Some say that Patrick Fitzgerald used the book as his primer for conducting valueless prosecutions based upon process "crimes" induced through interminable interrogation but I believe that Kafka really just had a clear vision of a man as yet unborn.

glasater

I rather liked the Kafka story of the guy who turned into a bug....can't remember the title.

Mr. Maguire--that was an awesome article you wrote back in 2003. Thank you for the reminder and link.

Referring back a thread or so--Native Americans like to be called--Indians. At least those that reside in this part of the country do.

SteveMG

Kafka story of the guy who turned into a bug....can't remember the title.

The Metamorphosis.

I'm going to give Michelle Obama a pass on this until, er, further review. It seems to me that candidate's spouses (Billy Jeff excepted) should be given a bit more rope than the candidates.

Cecil Turner

While pursuing his thus far quixotic quest for the presidency . . .

By far the most entertaining part of that post is the PaulBots' spewing nuttiness in the comments. I doubt it's having much effect on the local race, but one wonders . . .

Don

Quixotic? How about Guiliani spending 50 million for 1(!) delegate? Was that quixotic, or more like retarded?

Or what's an adjective for Thompson's campaign? At least Quixote was awake for most of the book.

That you cretins continue to lambaste Paul when your own favorites were so fuckin' pathetic is kinda funny.

Don

Incidentally TM-I showed up here to see if you were posting about the Supreme Ct. denying the ACLU's petition re: wiretaps, and instead you're gossiping about Osama's wife.

I know you and your kind are increasingly irrelevant, but at least try to go down with a fight eh?

glasater

Thanks SteveMG for Metamorphosis.

I watched a speech given by Michelle O on C-span's Road to the White House series not quite two months ago. It was at a retirement center--large room but not particularly filled--'way before the "big MO" was going.
She spoke effectively--but I was somewhat surprised that her phrasing was a little on the poor side grammatically--for someone as highly educated as she is.

glasater

"How about Guiliani spending 50 million for 1(!) delegate?"

John Connally spent 11 million dollars in 1980 for one delegate. How would that translate into today's dollars.

Cecil Turner

That you cretins continue . . .

Heh. See what I mean? My favorite, though, was "His delegate strategy is working . . ."

Don

Equally stupid. But at least those guys were spending other people's money.

Romney spending 30 million of his own bucks to get 280 delegates and barely edge out Huckabee (Huckabee!) has to take the cake for stupidest campaign ever. Well, maybe Steve Forbes...give him the fruitcake.

hit and run

Jane:
It's funny, both Hill and Barack's spouses are tanking them. Maybe Michele should marry Bill and Hill should marry Barack.


Dood, you're harshin my buzz. I have a yet to be released comment waiting for the right moment on just that.

1) Bill must be caught cheating.
2) With Michelle.
3) Billary divorces as does Barelle(?) Michrack(?)
4) Hillary and Barack wed -- after agreeing to a co-presidency.
5) But constiutionally they must select one to be president and one to be vice president -- but how to decide who gets what?
6) Easy. They [editor's note: this comment was originally drafted for Ace of Spades and point 6 has been removed for placement on the more family friendly JOM blog. Our apologies for any inconvenience]

michaelt

They.......compare?

Other Tom

Connolly's $11 million in 1980 would be $31 million in 2007 dollars.

One thing about those Paul folks, they've got class...

hit and run

Other Tom:
One thing about those Paul folks, they've got class...

And a blimp!

Jane

With people like Don on his side, Dr. Paul will soon be off the government dole. He can go back to delivering babies and insulting blacks.

Hit, can you give us a hint, or must we travel over to Ace's place?

anduril

If they had said they hadn't been proud of the government since ___, or they would restore pride in the executive branch...

Posted by: bgates | February 19, 2008 at 04:00 PM

The real trick would be to restore pride in the legislative branch--from the polls I've seen the worst presidential ratings are way ahead of Congress' ratings.

PeterUK

"Equally stupid. But at least those guys were spending other people's money."

Spoken like a true socialist.

hit and run

Jane:
Hit, can you give us a hint, or must we travel over to Ace's place?

No, it own't end up there since it has now been here.

Against my better judgement...

Super Double Secret Encoded Hint: cillaG htiw semyhr ecnerefer ehT

invernessie

Metallic? ;-)

invernessie

Italic (o) ...

Jane

Maybe a PH at the front Hit.

Otherwise, I'm lost.

hit and run

Yes, Jane.

It was a play on the longstanding idea that Hillary had one, and the recent introduction of the Edwardsification of Obama.

Beyer [wife of former VA Lt Gov Donald Beyer] said Obama's "warmth" and his early opposition to the war in Iraq are big selling points with female voters. "In many ways, he really will be the first woman president," she said.

There. Enough.

hit and run

Fine. And a Bob the Builderesqueish "Can we measure it? ... Yes we can!" to determine the presidency.

Mrs. President and Mr. Vice President in such a scenario, not out of the question?

(the Cooper Question Mark™ keeps me out of trouble!)

That's talking in wide circular patterns to avoid talking about it directly. If anyone is confused, I'm okay with that. If everyone is, Mission Accomplished.

If you're not confused and okay, you're okay, I'm okay.

If you're not confused and not okay, wait right here, I'll get the manager....

Jane

"In many ways, he really will be the first woman president," she said.

Oh dear/

Pofarmer

Thank you Gentlepeople, for that little primer on Kafka.

Would somebody care to explain how the recent Supreme court ruling on the wiretap program(that they won't hear it) is "Kafkaesque"?

Cause I don't see how declining the rights of trial lawyers to shake down the telecoms fits that description.

section9

That said, Taylor Marsh should be forced to dance tabletops at Bike Week in Daytona. The woman is a complete toady.

Meanwhile, Obambi has won Wisconsin and now we're having to suffer through yet another Party Day Rally in Nuremburg while the Leader talks about Hope.

Ja! Jesus Hussein Christ! Where's Pontius Pilate when we need him?

Ralph L

Pof', because National Security prevents the ACLU from proving they've been wire-tapped, and thus have standing to sue.

Cecil Turner

Cause I don't see how declining the rights of trial lawyers to shake down the telecoms fits that description.

But, but, but . . . they're spying on you. And unless you can prove it, you can't make 'em stop. And you can't prove it, because they won't tell you, because it's national security. And so they are breaking the law with impunity . . . [gasp]

Yeah, I don't see it either. The idea of enforcing the law through torts apparently appeals to a bunch of Dems who can't get a Justice Department or congressional investigation, get legislation passed to forbid an obviously required practice, or find any other lawful way to advance their policy goals. And since Pelosi refused to bring it up for a vote, the FISA bill died in the House, over immunity now apparently moot.

r flanagan

Three comments pointing in disparate directions.

o I want her husband to win, and that didn't help.

o Saying what you think is the truth even when it's unpopular is admirable

o It's easy to understand how someone could reach her position. Certainly how a Black could. (I'm old enough to have chosen to move to the back of a bus when a black army officer-in war time- was ordered to go there). And more than two decades of living in various foreign countries made it impossible for me not to observe how much better care the best of them take of their needy..

Are there also countries that are far worse than the USA ?. Absolutely. Even ones that I've otherwise found enjoyable: Turkey, India, Italy, South Africa, Argentina and on and on.And I'm proud we are better than they.

But as well there are a host of others;the Netherlands, all the usual Scandinavian ones, even Belgium , France and the UK with certain policies I deeply wish we would emulate.

Michelle is still young enough to reach a more nuanced position.Not, I'm afraid,in time to cease being an easy target in the coming campaign.

Pofarmer

But as well there are a host of others;the Netherlands, all the usual Scandinavian ones, even Belgium , France and the UK with certain policies I deeply wish we would emulate.

I'd say good luck with that, but I'd be lying.

glasater

"I'd say good luck with that, but I'd be lying."

Pofarmer--exactly.

The Danes don't even like to talk/interact with each other outside of their families.

Cecil Turner

Michelle is still young enough to reach a more nuanced position.

Seems to me nuance ain't the problem. If she's really first-time-proud of her country, what's the remarkable event? A resilient government system by the people inspiring others to become beacons of liberty and democracy? A hard-working economy providing superior living standards for its people and prosperity for the world? Technological advancements opening new frontiers and providing hope for future generations? Shouldering burdens of security for those whose wishful thinking and neglect would lead to League-of-Nationsish fecklessness and eventually another major conflagration? No, it's that people are "hungry for change" and some swoon over her husband's oratory. I've taken craps deeper than that.

As to European policies, the two major rubs we have with them are: economic and security. On the econ front, we favor open markets and individual decisionmaking, they favor socialized policies and command economies (or pieces thereof). They like stuff like government pensions, universal health care, setting goals for government "charity" (.7% of GDP) and capping GHG emissions by fiat. They're wrong, and emulating them is expensive stupidity. On the security side, they like feel-good agreements with no actual teeth. They refuse to enforce security agreements when made, shun military action, and can't take effective economic action (or honor sanctions long enough to have an effect). Watching the useless UNSC machinations resembles nothing so much as a single adult in a room full of kids. And I'm certain there are many on the left who'd just love for us to "see our country moving in that direction" and play nice with the other kiddies. But there are worse things than playground spats.

TexasToast

R Flanigan

Don't take it seriously - they are just looking for a hook - any hook - and this is a pretty weak hook.

This is real early in the oppo war - and, thankfully, they don't have boxes and boxes of dirt to throw - yet.

Gentlemen - man your shovels!

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