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February 21, 2008


Thomas Collins

I must be missing something. What of substance has the snoozepaper of record dug up about this matter that wasn't known eight years ago?

I actually think it is unfair to The National Enquirer to be calling the NYT story tabloid journalism. At least a tabloid would have found something juicier after eight years to even consider running this story.


Yea, I have to agree with you. They'd do the country a service by writing stories instead about how McCain has gutted the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Did you know that the McCain-Feingold Act doesn't limit money in politics, but does outlaw anyone saying anything untoward about Senator McCain 60 days before an election?

Is this the party of Lincoln? Or Lenin?


And Democrat Bob Bennett, the special counsel in the "Keating Five" S&L scandal, has this to say (in his new book) about McCain:

"At the completion of my investigation, I filed my report with the committee. I recommended that no further action be taken against Senators McCain and Glenn principally because once they learned that there was a criminal referral, they stopped aggressively doing Keating's bidding with the regulators. However, I also recommended that the committee proceed with ethics charges against Senators Cranston, DeConcini, and Reigle and hold a hearing to look into their conduct. I believed that the evidence showed clearly that these three had violated Senate Rules and should be held accountable. My recommendation that the only Republican in the group, John McCain, be exonerated caused a big political problem, but my recommendations were based on evidence and not politics. Perhaps those who knew me to be a Democrat thought I would act differently, but they did not know me very well. ...

This was perhaps the first time the recommendation of a special counsel not to charge a senator was rejected. This was pure politics as the Democrats on the committee did not want to cut McCain loose so that only Democrats would remain in the proceedings. If Senator McCain was not going to be cut loose, in retaliation the Republicans were going to keep Senator Glenn in the proceedings. McCain was the victim of politics, and poor Glenn, he was held captive to the decision on McCain. So much for nonpartisanship." (from John J. Miller over in The Corner)

Politics--you don't have to like it, but you've got to live with it.


Is it routine for a Senator from Arizona to pressure regulatory agencies on behalf of companies based in Florida?

What a knucklehead! Does he think good government comes cheap, or that it's covered by salaries? Of course Paxson spread the money around--what's he supposed to do when they've all got their hands out?

Cecil Turner

Is this the party of Lincoln? Or Lenin?

"Lenin" would be the "Feingold" part.


John Weaver has issued a statement that exposes the New York Times story on John McCain as a hack job. Part of their supposed corroboration of the gossip about an allegedly budding romance between McCain and lobbyist Vicki Iseman was his alleged intervention to stop it. Weaver, who no longer works for the campaign, says he told the Times that his intervention had nothing to do with an affair:

Iseman had bragged about her connections to the committee in order to expand her client list. Weaver heard about it and told her to knock it off, or she’d get frozen out. Lobbyists collect clients by making themselves appear influential, and apparently Iseman got a little too hyperbolic about her connections.

That’s the extent of the supposed “intervention” — and the Times knew it.

Opinksy also said that the Times use of the phrase “associates” to describe their McCain sources suggests that the leak may not have come from his campaign staffers at the time.
“There was only a handful of us [working on the campaign in 1999],” Opinksy said. “We never had a staff meeting to address any of this.”

Asked who was behind the story, Opinksy said: “Lobbyists tell a lot of tall tales.

“What’s behind this is money. There were a bunch of lobbyists in town who knew that if John McCain became president they were going to have a hard time.”



And the newsmonkies on the radio dutifully repeat the story every 15 minutes, with the "McCain denies" caveat, of course.


This broke too early to be useful to anyone but McCain. The public pays no attention to policy initiatives--sex, scandal, lies, and hope are the themes they seem enthralled with--and media bias. He's going to play Pinch like a well-tuned harmonica.


According to the NYTs, 8 years ago McCain was friendly with with a female lobbyist. Since 2000 NYTs reporters have investigated McCain's relationship with that lobbyist's client Lowell Paxson.

Over that time period the Times reporters could find no evidence of anything illegal, unethical, or immoral about McCain's behavior toward the lobbyist or her telecom client.

The NYTs reporters found this lack of evidence very suspicious, and decided to publish a story about their suspicions.

I think Shakespeare had it wrong. First we should deal with the journalists.


You know at some point the big fall has to come for journalists. Enough people are going to realize they have been lied to for years. I wonder how it will play out. Hopefully it will start with the bankruptcy of the New York Times.


Newsbusters is reporting that one of the four journos was caught in a play for pay scandal already, paid to dig up dirt on a republican.

You know, it's time to do the same thing to all the reporters involved--check out their lives with a fine toothed comb and report one's suspicions. Let's see how the Fourth Estate likes playing by the same rules.

Bill in AZ

"Hopefully it will start with the bankruptcy of the New York Times."

And hopefully someone will mark a grave for the NYTimes - with a beer garden close by...


You don't, well, shouldn't, run a story of this magnitude with the seriousness of the allegations against a party's presidential candidate based on two anonymous sources.

That's not nailing a story down.

It may be true; or parts of it.

But this story is way too weak to run as it is.

My guess is that they rushed it out before the New Republic piece was published.


Jeez..between Linda Greenhouse et al, does the Times hire anyone not in the liberal advocacy tank? One of the reporters was involved in a liberal pay for play doo dah


oh. Clarice already commented this.


Do you suppose this piece was ghost written by the now freed up Jason Leopold?


Jason Who? I thought he changed his name to Scott Beauchamp!


More Kentucky

A reader has alerted us to another Kentucky connection to the McCain story. Vicki Iseman, the lobbyist whose connections to McCain are at the center of the NYT story, is ably assisted by Kentucky native and UK graduate John Esham. Esham, who is described as "Iseman's right-hand-man," has served as a staffer in Congressman Ben Chandler's office.
Tom Maguire

I am taken by Bill Keller's explanation that in December the story was not ready but now it is tied down. Geez, it must have been soap bubbles back then; now it is upgraded to a balloon in the wind.


Enough people are going to realize they have been lied to for years

Unfortunately, if you look at Daily Kos or the Huffington Post, some of the outrage seems to be that the NYTs didn't go with this story sooner- that they held it to benefit McCain.
And Jay Rosen, who has never seen a forest with all the trees in the way, says:

Lots of people will be asking why now? but my first question was different: why endorse?

He apparently never got around to wondering "why?"



Wrong analogy. More like a fart in the wind. Same scent.

Other Tom

James Taranto:

"The biggest beneficiary of the way the Times handled this may be McCain himself. The allegations are insubstantial to begin with, and the circumstances of their publication make it easy for his campaign to draw attention away from the story and toward the Times. What's more, the story ended up coming out late enough not to stand in the way of McCain's getting the GOP nomination, yet early enough that it will be long forgotten come November."


Dont bother looking at Kos or Huffpo, those folks are not going to ever vote for a Republican, even John McCain is far off their mark.

But there are plenty of moderate Democrats, and an even bigger pile of independents who will vote for him. And pounding the NYT like a big mouthed step child will garner him both respect and votes. Lots of these folks have an innate sense of fairness and the Times did not just step on the line they jumped totally out of the circle.

New polls before the faux scandal of course have McCain up on Obama in Pennsylvania. Go to an Electoral College map and see how big a hole that would rip in their electoral quilt. Damn near fatal, and best of all it would likely be reported early in the evening before poll close in the West, maybe depressing turnout there for the Dems and adding House seat to the R side of the aisle.

Avalanches usually start with a rumble and there is a pause and its not immediately evident that one is taking place for a bit. We may be right there in the Presidential race.


"I am taken by Bill Keller's explanation that in December the story was not ready but now it is tied down. Geez, it must have been soap bubbles back then; now it is upgraded to a balloon in the wind."

I think Bill Keller just wrote his ticket out of the bldg..or secured a seat next to Pinch when the SS NYT goes down for the final count which I predict is in 12 business months.


How in the hell are people questioning the timing?

Go re-read their endorsement of McCain-it has an eery similiarity to the current piece.

The McCain endorsement one part McCain, five parts negative on Rudy.

Similiar in this piece is one part Iseman and five parts Keating.

How naive is Gergen-he doesn't think there is anything to the "timing".

Well it's funny that if you read the TNR piece the Washington NYT office wanted to run with it but it was the NYC offices of the NYT dragging.


Is it that hard?

Mo Do and Frank Rich-

Mo Do:Well if we run this piece now in December who would it help?

Frank Rich: Oh my stars and theatre tickets it would help our first nemesis Giuliani!

Mo Do: Well exactly because you know my dumb brother -the Republican told me that- Rudy and McCain's voters overlap like a Viennese Diaphram or something.

Frank: Ooooh a Viennese Diaphram how exciting!


Maybe Murtha's campaigning for Obama or Hill will turn the tide. *heh* By now even his uninformed district must have caught wind of his Haditha outrage.



Pennsylvania baby.

Put Ridge as VP...

Speaking of which they could be remembering him pretty fondly in comparison to Rendell.

Plus next to Obama Ridge's resume as VP would make the Presidential Creds of Obama look like-

What they are...


David Gergen is invited on shows for one reason, he is nominally a Republican but can reliably be counted on to say stuff that sounds like a Democrat. The Ex Senator from Maine Cohen? is exactly the same.

Gergen served under Clinton remember. Nuff said?

Rick Ballard

"Ooooh a Viennese Diaphram how exciting!"

OK Anon - if that's your real name - that takes thread and day.


Murtha was also just named Porker of the Year. What a guy! (he looks like a porker, too.)


NO way on Ridge. Pennsylvania in the bag I want to move to another decent sized state. Maryland or Minnesota. That means Pawlenty or Steele. Either has the potential to draw in a surrounding state that is competitive as well. Add in NJ to Maryland or Wisconsin to Minn and you have a bunch of EC votes.


GMax, so did Cohen.

Bill in AZ

OK, we've been had by MSM repeatedly... the real question is what are RW and BHO up to today that MSM is hiding? Or did they lob this dud just to get us off of MO's troubles?


I had forgotten about Cohen but I knew there was something I detested about the guy.


Pennsylvania has 21 EC votes, 1 more than Ohio and just 6 less than Florida. A big Prize, as Minnesota and Wisconsin together are only 19.


Howard Dean on McCain

“He doesn’t seem to have an instinct about what is the right thing to do and what isn’t the right thing to do.”

and “doesn’t seem to really have an ethical compass”

Sooo. I guess Bill's, ahem, documented BJs really, really, were bad and made him unfit for office, Democrats were just lying and dishonestly defending him.

Thanks for clearing that up Howard.


The same Howard Dean who quit his church in a huff over a dispute over a jogging path? What might he know about moral compasses?


Dont bother looking at Kos or Huffpo, those folks are not going to ever vote for a Republican, even John McCain is far off their mark.

I know they'll never vote for McCain, but it is their ability to fan a flame that bothers me. Or is it that they are bellwethers?
Either way, I've seen the stories they focus on too often remain in focus and harmful, even if there is no there there. See: Valerie Plame, Cindy Sheehan, Jeff Gannon


shoot sorry


Geez the guy on Fox just called the New Republic "right leaning".

And on the panel they talked about Obama being clean with lobbyists and McCain getting lots of money, when Obama has gotten 10 million on lobbyist contributions and McCain 2 million.


Looks like an attempt to Foley MaCain.

Rick Ballard


Bill Roggio reports that Sadr has extended the hudna for another six months. That may allow completion of the oil revenue sharing agreement in addition to providing a guarantee against an increase in sectarian violence.

More good news for the Iraqi people and bad news for AQ and their Copperhead allies.


More bad news for the media which was just reporting without any fact that Sadr would break the truce.
As for the McCain story, Capt Ed seems to agree with me--Bill Keller is insane,

Bill in AZ

OT good news - AZ Congressman John Shadegg, who announced last week that he would not seek reelection, has reconsidered (at the urging of MANY) and will run for election again. He is one of the sharpest members at understanding House and Senate rules, and has helped the Reps sidestep several IED's placed by the likes of Pelosi and Reid.


Last Thursday, 146 of my colleagues in the U.S. House signed a letter asking me to reconsider, an unprecedented event. Yesterday I received a letter signed by the leaders of 33 different Conservative organizations from across America also urging me to reverse my announced intentions.
One event I will never forget, epitomizes their messages to me. Last weekend, returning to Phoenix from Washington, I was trudging through Sky Harbor at 5:30 in the morning, having spent four hours sleeping at the Las Vegas airport awaiting a delayed flight. As I walked toward the baggage claim, an airport security worker was walking the opposite direction down the corridor, presumably on his way to work. We exchanged tired glances as we each headed on our separate ways, but just as we passed, he said "Run again!" Shocked, I simply said, "Thanks." I did not know him, and we exchanged no other words. But he, like thousands of my constituents, just wanted me to know what he thought.
hit and run

You know what would be totally audacious?

Obama making a statement decrying the politics of personal destruction on the part of the NYT, publishing a story full of innuendo with little or no substance or evidence -- saying he believes John McCain to be an honorable man, full of integrity, and dedicated to public service. That he disagrees with him sharply on many policies, most notably Iraq, but that in terms of ethics and moral standards, John is a public servant he trusts.

I only say this because I know that I am one of the last persons Obama would ever take campaign advice from.


Pot? Meet kettle, I mean Keller

...Gilbey, at the time, had a reputation as something of a power-dater; her exes included Senator John Kerry and Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour. An affair ensued, which shocked Keller’s friends.


The other day you proposed a slogan "Change you're used to...." and I've been chuckling about it to myself ever since. Brilliant!


I wonder if the NY Times broke the McCain story to get Obama's plagerism out of the news. Or maybe it was Bush's successful trip to Africa. Or perhaps Hillary's crash. There clearly was another motive than bashing McCain, given the timing.


Okay where is Elliott and where is out new thread? Harummph!

hit and run

Jane, dear, I know you know and you know that I know you know, but I want to make sure the we both know that we know we know. But I don't want to make it easy for "them" to know that we know that we know, so let's put it in code...

dratsab tnecifingam uoy evoR


I notice donations to Democrats John Dingell, Charles Rangel, Ed Markey (House Dem and Telecom Subcommittee Chair), Bob Graham, Harry Reid, Bill Nelson, Daniel Inouye, Mark Foley (oops!), Max Cleland, and Ernest Hollings, as well as many Republicans.

Was the "oops" because it was a bad idea to donate to Foley, or because you listed Foley among Democrats when he was a Republican?


Don't know if this is the right thread. Ooh, Campbell Brown is hosting tonight. Univision and CNN have one questioner. And now comes the terrible CNN candidate walk-in.


Here we are in Austin with Campbell Brown. (What kind of name is that anyway?) The Nafta superhighway is supposed to be the big issue, it Lou Dobbs is to be believed. Hillary gets cheers and is all in black. Obama gets the same amount of cheers and then it builds. Hillary claps for the audience, but Obama only waves. (He's a rockstar you know)


Now the people about to ask the questions are doing some punditry, I think. Have they done that at the previous debates?

hit and run

Where's porchlight?


I've watched all of the debate I can stand already. The crowd is disgusting, with its cheering of these two candidates like they're part of a rock concert.

hit and run

Oh, wait....right there, 6th row back, right?

Pat Curley

Clara Peller had the appropriate comment for this story. It's a monstrous bun around an extremely small amount of cow.

JM Hanes

We don't want a "real conversation," we want a real fight!

Rick Ballard

Let's not forget my probably incorrect speculation concerning ownership change at the Times. The almost 50% jump in share value since January 22nd accompanied by a steep increase in volume indicate that change is more than in the wind.

Firing Junior and Keller would be a natural first move by a reconstituted board and this little stinkpot might just be their goodbye present.

Cross all fingers and toes.


Hillary smiles like a 6 year old. Small talk is made with the local officials. And now they take their seats. Sitting again - harder to attack when you are sitting. (I made that up)

Hillary expresses he delight and recollects some of that 35 years of experience, this time registering voters. She invokes a black woman (a dead one so there can be no refutation, and the liberal hero Ann Richards, which brings the house down (- well sort of.)

She tells us she has made real differences, but we don't believe her - no we don't. She has very stubby fingers. she wants to amend the constitution to force insurers to cover pre-existing injuries.

Now the Messiah:


Messiah tells us about all the hardship in Texas, and it's all George Bush's fault. Hail Obamism - where when a black man sneezes you rise to your feet and swoon. The Messiah has already lost me, but I can hear the lilt in his voice and that's enough for me. I think I have the vapors.


Sit down debate tonight. Campbell Brown tells us we want a real conversation so no rules (sort of like the Democratic Convention).

Opening statements.

Clinton: Happy to be back in Austin, where I had first political job, registering voters. I lived in Austin and San Antonio made friends. We shared values. Hard work, etc. I was friends with Barbara Jordan, who taught me about courage and it's her birthday. Ann Richards is another friend. Politics is about making real differences in people's lives. I've done that. Children's health insurance program. More healthcare for national guard. I've done lots but there is more to do. Healthcare companies shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against the sick.

I'll take care of our veterans. We can do so much better. Lifetime of experience and results. Take on special interests. Take from Bush's friends to give to middle class. Campaign about your families, your future, your healthcare.

Obama: Thank you UT. I'm honored to be here with my friend Sen. Clinton. Nation at war, economy in shambles. People are feeling the failure. I met people in San Antonio who were victimized by predatory lender. Full-time student and worker who gets 3 hours of sleep and can't pay for sister's health care. Problems resulting from NAFTA, jobs shipped overseas.

I've met the parents of the fallen. Wearing bracelet from mother whose son died in Iraq, a war that never should have been waged. We could have used the money we spent on so many things at home.

Talking about these issues for 13 months. Aren't lacking good ideas. Problem is Washington is the place good ideas go to die. Lobbyists and special interests have stranglehold on agenda and politicians want to score points rather than get things done.

Bring country together, fight special interests, be honest about how we will solve problems and enlist Americans in solving them. Barbara Jordan, an inspiration to me, said we want "America to be as good as it's promise."

hit and run

I'm sorry, what did I miss? I fainted.

Rick Ballard

Non hablo espanol muy bueno. Que dice?

hit and run

Hillary: I lived in Austin and San Antonio

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- forget this whole securing the Southern border thing.



And I spot George Lopez in the audience. Won't he be tired for his Nick at Night rerun if he claps that much?

The Messiah will make America "as good as its promise" but only after we throw out the constitution.

Ahhhh Fidel is gone - long live Raul. Would you sit down with him? Hillary now wants democracy in Cuba - just not in Iraq. She clearly didn't hear that raul rebuked Hugo in favor of Bazil today. But she will create momentum for Raul to fall in place. Hill wants change before she has tea. (Now Syria is a different question)

What will the Messiah do?

You already promised to meet, nah nah nah. Now he hedges - and hedges back. He will change Cuba - we don't know how, but he will.


Foley was term limits. Thus, all the dem killing and the Foleys.

Huffpo has weighed in with foreign military intelligence services pretty heavily, but KOS isn't talking, so we have to say Plame here and KOS got bought and Huffpo has decided to be stupid for the enemy.

Why now? The US won.

JM Hanes

Barbara Jordan's birthday, eh? Hillary's great friend Anne Richard. That explains a lot.

End discrimination against sick people!

Per this site, the NYTimes summed up Hillary's role in the passage of SCHIP: “Participants in the campaign for the health bill both on and off Capitol Hill said the first lady had played a crucial behind-the-scenes role in lining up White House support.” Ya think?

Obama Barbara Jordans Hillary.

Rick Ballard

BHO the Red says: Viva Raul! Cuba no libre!

Rick Ballard

Red Witch just said that Bubba was a total failure at diplomacy? I can buy that.


Oh dear, Campbell nails the Messiah - he has changed his position. My gawd I'm shocked he's been around long enough to have a position. Yes it is a failed policy and blah blah blah, he's like John Kennedy. I have no clue if he will meet or not meet.

Hillary wants diplomacy with Iran. And she points out her difference with the Messiah. She wants to wait until she figures things out, and he's already got it figured out. Boring.

So let's bash Bush. She will send the republicans and the democrats. Chelsea is so proud.

The Messiah steps back again and says he will do what Hill does. And he bashes Bush and says it's Bush's fault that he has to be a bigger diplomat that Hillary.

Yeah that's right. Moron.


Univision guy Jorge Ramos: Will you talk with Raul Castro or whoever succeeds Castro at least once?

Clinton: Chance for change in Cuba. Need release of political prisoners, freer press and economy. Government needs to demonstrate it will change. US will welcome that and I'll try to create momentum that might lead to presidential visit. Has to be real change.


Clinton: I won't meet until they make clear that change is happening. We need full diplomatic engagement but that doesn't mean the president should be visiting.

Obama: I'd meet with new leader of Cuba. Liberty of Cuban people is starting point of our policy. Opportunity for change in US-Cuban relationship. Without preconditions, but human rights, freer press would be on agenda. Talk to enemies not just friends, that's where diplomacy makes the biggest difference.

Lessen restrictions on travel, remittances. Wouldn't normalize relations until changes have happened.

Brown: You had a different view in 2003.

Obama: I want to get normalization, but I still think U.S. policy was failure. No progress made in Cuba my entire adult lifetime. Ease restrictions then have talks. Never negotiate out of fear but never fear to negotiate said JFK.

Clinton: Should be willing to engage diplomatically with anyone. I've thought that about Iran for years. We want adversarial countries to engage the world community. We disagree on the president meeting without preconditions with countries with whom we don't have diplomatic relations.

Eliminate policy of Bush administration. Haven't reached out. Alienate friends. Emboldened enemies. Bipartisan diplomacy needed. The era of unilateralism, preemption, and arrogance is over (ed: she says in a shocking break from her husband's legacy).

Obama: Step back from Bush policy. President needs to be more active because of Bush's errors. To undo the damage the president needs to go the extra mile.

JM Hanes

Why would we need economists to tell people the economy when Democrats are already doing that job?

Obama is clearly planning to stick to his talking points, so anybody who wants to skip the debate, can read it all in his last big speech.


Did people just clap when Obama said the US shouldn't stand up above the rest of the world?

JM Hanes


She apparently thinks Bubba's trade policies sucked too.


If GM lays people off in the US and opens a plant in China, does that count as "shipping jobs overseas"?


Oooh how is the Messiah different than the red witch.

He hedges, and says how bad bad bad things are.

blah blah blah - one slogan after another. He will stop those bad Chinese. He is clueless. But all the democrats are fab. And they are all very smart. As for "how"? He's gonna form a coalition. He won't say how.

The Hill is ready on Day 1! How so Hill?

Obama is a southpaw. How many southpaw presidents have we had?

Hill says Bush is bad bad bad - she should be saying that the Messiah is bad bad bad.

Ooooh a trade time out, and a trade prosecutor. (I hear Spitzer will soon be available). And she will protect dogs, and probably cats too.

Stop the foreclosures!!!! They were all hoodwinked. Freeze interest rates for 5 years - I wonder at what rate?

End the war on science!!!! George Bush's war!


CNN guy John King: How differ on economy?

Obama: Don't need economist to tell Americans the economy is in trouble as it's been for four years. People have been struggling for a long time, in some communities for decades. Fairness and balance needed. Tax code shouldn't favor companies shipping jobs overseas, end Bush tax cuts, tax cuts for middle class, offset to payroll tax. No taxes for seniors on social security. Engage in trade, but viewed through the lens of main street (labor, environment, safety) not just Wall Street so don't have toys with lead paint.

Lots of money goes overseas to pay for oil. Cap greenhouse gases. It can put people back to work. Sen. Clinton and I are in agreement on most of these issues. Question is how accomplish what we want. Need a successful coalition. President needs to overcome dominance of special interests, which is where Sen. Clinton and I might have small disagreement.

Clinton: I agree with a lot of that. Get rid of loop-holes, no subsidies for companies that outsource. Rich have a President now, I want everyone else to have President. Trade timeout and trade prosecutor. Tougher standards on importation, more vigorous enforcement.

I've been trying to crack down on lenders for a year. Moratorium on foreclosures for 90 days so people can stay in homes. Freeze interest rates for 5 years, otherwise "millions of Americans will be homeless."

Clean green jobs will put people to work. Invest in infrastructure. End George Bush's war on science. We've got to be the innovation nation.

JM Hanes

Sheesh. The writers' strike is over, people! Get yourselves some new human interest stories.

They both support the Huckabee infrastructure plan.

A new slogan is born: We want to be the Innovation Nation!

hit and run

I don't usually watch this carp and rely on reading about it (from you fine folks).

Why my judgement lapsed tonight, I do not know.

I Blame Bush.


"Out of the shadows," drink!

JM Hanes

How do you do that Elliott? I can't even transcribe my own snark that fast.


Hate crimes against Mexicans has increased? Where?

JM Hanes

Shoot. I don't think they're going to fight at all. Hillary's just nodding her head like she's Obama's proud mentor.


Immigration - will you stop the raids?

Of course I will, except when I won't. We can't leave babies without parents (why? we have a village to take care of them?)

Don't worry, I'll send you money. And I'll also help Mexico make more jobs in my spare time. I have a billion ideas. Hail the illegals!

The Messiah has lots and lots and lots of experience, altho nothing past. Bummer.
"Tone down the rhetoric" skyrocketing hate crimes. Oh dear. Hillary nods. Blame the employers and give all those illegals minimum wage. And in state-tuition, and affirmative action, and a new car in the drive way and a chicken in every pot. And the Messiah too will create jobs in Mexico. And it's all Bush's fault.


Elliott and Jane have mad typing skillz


Ramos: Raids on illegal immigrants. Would you stop them?

Clinton: I'd consider that except in egregious situations. It's terrible that babies are left with no one to care for them, children coming home from school to find their parents gone. That's not the America I know. Failure of federal government. We need comprehensive reform. Crack down on employers, more help for communities.

Need to help Mexico create more jobs there. Bring immigrants out of shadows, pay fine, taxes, try to learn English. Deport criminals.

Obama: I'd add a couple things. I've worked on comprehensive immigration reform too. We got a bill through earlier, but it didn't this time because it was used as a political football. Tone down the rhetoric on immigration. There is an undercurrent that has been ugly directed at Hispanics. Hate crimes have gone up. Need comprehensive reform, crack down on employers without Hispanics being discriminated against. Learn English, back taxes, fine, back of the line.

Fix legal immigration system. Backlog runs into years. Fees increasing. Discriminatory against people with good character who don't have the money.

Work with Mexico to get jobs on that side of the border. Administration has not delivered on promise of US-Mexico partnership.

hit and run

Hate crimes against Mexicans has increased? Where?

Right there. Your question. Expressing doubt that hate crims have increased


is a hate crime agains Mexicans.

For shame.


My Gawd. Our economy is in the tank but the Messiah is going to fix our economy and Mexico's economy. He really is the Messiah.


Would you build the fence?
I voted for it, but the Bush administration is so bad that I'm able to try to wiggle out of it in case you all hate the fence.

Crew v1.0

More al-QaQaa from Keller.


Responsive if people try to cross the border? What exactly does she have in mind? Throwing more border agents in jail for stopping them?

JM Hanes

John King is doing a good job on the questions, I think. I love it when pols "explain" their votes.

We need Smart fences!


We've learned a lot about smart fencing. Wasn't the vote just last summer or so?
When Hillary opens her mouth I hear that Jell-o wiggle jingle.


Hillary knows more about the border than a governor of a border state who supports the same damn thing she is spouting.

JM Hanes

I'd settle for smarter Democrats.


Are we still doing fish metaphors?

Will Hill finish the fence? She voted for it. Bush is dumb. The fence is now bad, she is changing her mind now that she is in Texas. Her policy is "wait a minute". Her vote really wasn't a vote for the fence, because Bush is bad and so it's not her fault.

Was your vote wrong?

Oh don't worry we will have smart fences. We will use smart technology, like machine guns instead. It's Bush's fault. We need to deploy. (She is showing that she can speak military - she can't)

Messiah: I agree completely with hill and I'll have diplomatic relations with every community. I'll meet with every citizen personally about the fence.

We have 12 milllion people to help. what's a few million more?


Obama's answer, while not really an answer, is better. Although I'm against the Dream act.


John King: You voted for fence. Will you finish it?

Clinton: We both voted for it. I was in Brownsville and learned that the Bush administration would cut off part of UT Brownsville campus with the wall. I've been objecting to Bush administration policies on the Northern border. Could have physical barrier in some places.

Bush administration has gone of the deep end. I'd listen to people on border.

King: So was vote wrong or implementation wrong? Fence in San Diego shifted problem to Arizona?

Clinton: There is technology we can use and not just physical barriers. The Bush administration has gone crazy filing eminent domain actions. We don't need to interfere in the wonderful of border dwellers.

Obama: We agree almost entirely in this area. Consult with local communities. Bush administration isn't good at listening. Fencing could work in some areas. Border patrol and technology will work better in most places.

American people want fairness. Realize can't deport 12 million, but want some order. Won't be able to deal with these in isolation. That's why need comprehensive reform to deal with those here and keep the border secure. Pass DREAM act (ed: Mickey Kaus must be very unhappy).

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