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March 09, 2008

Comments

Sue

I can't say I'm surprised. I think we are in for a long, hard drought of republicans. Tighten your seatbelts. The ride is going to get bumpy.

Jane

Bumpy and expensive.

kim

We're going to get awfully sick of hearing about Bush's Three Trillion Dollar mistake, even though it was not three trillion dollars, and not a mistake.

These demagogues are bad. Just plain naughty. There is such pathology. But the disease is insidious, and the patient seems to prefer illness.

Or Obama's faith cure.
==============================

ben

WASHINGTON - Dozens of U.S. troops in Iraq fell sick at bases using "unmonitored and potentially unsafe" water supplied by the military and a contractor once owned by Vice President Dick Cheney's former company, the Pentagon's internal watchdog says.

A contractor ONCE owned by Dick Cheney's FORMER company....

Pofarmer

Or Obama's faith cure.

Good thing I wasn't sipping coffee right then.

Pofarmer

A contractor ONCE owned by Dick Cheney's FORMER company....

47 degrees of seperation?

Pofarmer

I wonder what the turnout was???

kim

Yeah, it is funny, PoF. Funny enough to make me sob.
================================

D. M.

This election was more of a comment on the candidates involved, and nothing else, with limited predictive value to other upcoming races. Foster is a blue dog in a conservative district who was running against a Republican candidate who had split the party during the primary race for this seat. Oberweis (Foster’s opponent) is now a five-time loser in Illinois politics, even when running against weak opposition. He had the support of the NRCC solely because he could “self-fund”—and, in fact, he ran a very expensive and very bad campaign.

The NRCC still almost managed to salvage the race in the end by spending money like water for a very short period of time. That speaks to how much this was a statement about how badly Oberweis did, not about how damaged the NRCC is.

Ranger

This may actually be more of a causionary tail for the Dems this time around. It shows what happens when you run a vicious primary race that spilts the party. You lose the general.

Rick Ballard

DM,

Thanks for the info. Will there be another primary now to determine who runs against Foster in November? If so, any guess as to whether Oberweiss is smart enough to take a hint?

Jane

Did you guys see Fox News Sunday today? I caught the first 5 minutes before I went to the gym. Britt (substituting for Chris) asked superdelegate Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz what her idea was to fix the voting problem in Florida:

Superdelegate Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz: "It's all the republicans fault"

Britt: "Who sponsored the bill"

Superdelegate Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz: "It was sponsored by a democrat but for other reasons.

Britt: How many democrats voted for it? (It passed unanimously)

Superdelegate Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz: "That's an inappropriate line of questioning."

I laughed all the way thru my work-out.

Semanticleo

"We're going to get awfully sick of hearing about Bush's Three Trillion Dollar mistake, even though it was not three trillion dollars, and not a mistake."

George Will was asked how Condi would fare as
potential Veep to McCain on 'This Week' today and responded;

"With McCain as the Iraq War candidate, I don't think it helps to have her reinforcing
that message"

Oh, I forgot. The ultra conservative Will opposed the NeoCon clusterf**k.

kim

Your sympathies lie with those who are going to blame Iraq for the instability of Social Security, and for the housing mess. Sad, semi, sad. You have my sympathy.
===================

Jane

"Ultra conservative Will"? I hadn't noticed.

centralcal

Jane, your recount of Fox News Sunday with Wasserman-Schultz is a howler! Funny stuff -- it plays later here, so I don't want to miss it.

Other Tom

Turnout was surprisingly low--about 100,000 as compared to 190,000 in the 2006 off-year election.

For all my unrestrained loathing of the modern Democratic party, it's awfully hard to make a case that the Republicans don't deserve everything that has happened to them, and is likely to happen in 2008. Recalling the elation I felt when the GOP finally took the House in 1994, it's genuinely depressing to reflect on how things played out. Newt came in bristling with optimism, energy and ideas, and got completely euchered (very easily) by Bubba and was helpless in the face of the onslaught from the press.

After that we got the useless, unprincipled ciphers Trent Lott and Bill Frist in the Senate and Denny Hastert in the House. Then it just became a garden-variety spend-a-thon, indistuguishable from any of the Dems' worst excesses, and leavened with guys diddling around with gay pages. The GOP managed in twelve years to make itself as revolting to the electorate as the Dems had done in forty.

Surveying the scene now, we have a presidential nominee who is either a moderate or a maverick, depending on which spin you believe, for want of a single attractive, principled conservative alternative. Right now, who's your favorite Republican Senator? Congressman?

Would you like to see the GOP regain control of the House? Why?

centralcal

It always amazes me how many comments there are on JOM that employ an occasional oath, or curse, but almost never vulgar profanity. But, let a Liberal appear and it is almost guaranteed that there will be one or more vulgarity in the comment.

Semanticleo

"You have my sympathy."

We'll all of us deserve sympathy when the chickens come home to roost after that unconscionable diversion of resources and manpower

centralcal

Other Tom: The first Senator name that comes to mind as a favorite is Sessions.

Semanticleo

"it is almost guaranteed that there will be one or more vulgarity in the comment."

Sorry. It just seemed an appropriate military-type derogation for that situation.

kim

From your point of view, unconscionable. From mine, necessary and useful.
=================================

kim

As I say, Semi, you have my sympathy. It's a shame and a paradox to have your intelligence combined with your lack of understanding.
===========================

Other Tom

Sessions is a good choice. I admire Mitch McConnell as well; nothing wrong with Sam Brownback, either.

Meantime, what are we to make of all this gratuitous chatter from Bubba and the Vile Banshee about the unity ticket? The one thing we know for sure is that it is calculated and utterly unspontaneous. My take on it is as follows:

I have already seen reports of a significant number of superdelegates who say that they are going to cast their convention vote on the basis of which candidate appears to be best positioned for November, based upon how the two rivals fare between now and then. Very little question that Hillary will do all in her power to diminish Obama's chances to win at the top of the ticket; that loathsome effort has already begun, and in earnest.

So when Bubba talks about the unity ticket being "unstoppable," he is suggesting to Obama that he might as well settle for number two, since he'll be assured of a victory. Does he have the fortitude and integrity to say "shove it?" I hope so.

Jane

OT; Tom Coburn comes to mind for me because of his position on earmarks. But I know very little else about him.

boris

garden-variety spend-a-thon, indistuguishable from any of the Dems' worst excesses

I caution against this general line of argument. Bush ran as a compassionate conservative and McCain is running as a maverick conservative. When high taxes is a fait accompli the question of how it gets spent is an important consideration.

Fiscal conservatives would say it is better for people to spend their own money because they have the best information about their needs and spend more effectively than any central government could. Absolutely IMO. However that argument already allows that how money is spent is at least as important as how much. GOP and dimorat spending may be comparable in amount, but ...

... dimorat spending money works like acid ...

GOP spending may be wasteful, may be comparable to soda pop, chips and candybars but it is not as bad as dimorat acid.

You can't change this dymanic by scolding politicians. It has to come from voters deciding to take more control. As long as the state can control your kids and your money it's not going to get better. Don't expect or hope some state politician is going to fix it either.

Other Tom

Just because it's so much fun to do so, let's list a few of the Senators who voted for the Iraq war:

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Harkin (D-IA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Nelson (D-FL)

That, apparently, was John Kerry's 3:00 a.m. moment, and according to him he flunked it. Thank God he never got his unstable finger on the nuclear trigger.

kim

Brownback is a mess. He is socially conservative to an ugly faretheewell, but his Christianity has provoked some interesting compassion.
===================

Pofarmer

Right now, who's your favorite Republican Senator? Congressman?

Well, I like Kenny Hulshoff. However, he is way too quick to pile on Republicans in trouble. He was one that was behind the ousting of Tom Delay, one of the few that could actually get something done in the House.

He'll be running for Gov of MO. I almost expect him as a presidential candidate one of these days.

Semanticleo

I am so fed up with the choice between 'paper
or plastic' that I am seriously considering going 'Green' rather than voting none of the above.

I continue to be cautious about Obama, but the coup-de-gras in my asessment of Hill was her
"Not Present' vote on TelCom immunity. I replied to her campaign email with brevity;
'I will be spamming all future emails from you'.

Two Party system.......horseshit.

Sorry, centralcal. It seems an appropriate politcal derogation under the circumstances

clarice

Jane, thanks for posting that exchange. It was marvelous.

MikeS

Beating [on] Republicans and Conservatives has been a favorite pastime of the news media over that last few years. Their unanswered attacks have successfully redefined Republicans as mean, greedy people who hate children and kick puppies.

In this election people are being asked to choose between Liberalism and Conservatism. Conservatism needs McCain to declare conservative principles and to become a spokesman or a champion of Conservatism.

Though I can’t be sure, what follows are some of the principles that I think most conservatives believe in.

Conservatives generally believe in limited government, rather than government that gets progressively larger and more intrusive.

Conservatives believe in government by the people, rather than government by some faceless bureaucrats in D.C.

Conservatives believe that power should be held closer to the people, by state and local government, which can be more easily held accountable.

Conservatives don’t believe in the Soviet style “Central Planning” model that has failed everywhere it has been tried.

Conservatives believe that the U.S. should keep its word and honor agreements made with other countries.

Conservatives believe it is better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish, i.e. to give the needy a job or another means to become self sufficient rather than to provide only a check.

And on and on and …

kim

Rolling Stone calls Obama the new Lincoln. They're wrong; he's the new Edsel.
=================

Pofarmer

NeoCon clusterf**k.

As compared to what?

kim

Go ahead, H&R, steal it; it's public property.
====================

kim

Things really get whirly when you have Neocon Deniers.
==================================

bio mom

We really don't want one party in charge of everything! That was the problem with the Republicans. And if Democrats, who philosophically believe in big government, control everything it will be very bad for the country. I hope McCain wins just for that reason.

centralcal

Kim, I agree about Brownback. And, I agree with OT on Mitch McConnell. I think he has done a much superior job than Frist. There are a lot of Congress people I like too.

Also, Kim, Edsel is an apt choice.

centralcal

"I continue to be cautious about Obama..."

That is wise on your part, what with Rezko and the homegrown terroism crowd -- his friendships have and do pose some serious questions.

Rick Ballard

MikeS,

That's a good start. I'd put "personal responsibility" right at the top though. The diffusion of responsibility to the collective is the hallmark of the idiot progressive. It's usually tied to a phony compassion which believes that solving "problems" involves reaching into my wallet "for the general good".

It will be interesting to see if the Reps can craft a platform with the simplicity of the Contract With America. If they can get a plank which focuses help for the truly helpless and a firm boot for the hapless leaches (with concurrent reduction in spending) it would be a plus.

Ranger

D.M.'s summation is a good one, but I would add that this race also show how important the local party organizations are. Oberweis ran a very nasty primary that beat the favored candidate of (what remains) of the GOP in Illinois. The result was that the local GOP made no real effort to help Oberweis in this election. The NRCC did try to help, but without the local aparatus working to get the vote out, it wasn't enough.

The question is how much of this dynamic gets replayed with the Clinton/Obama struggle in the fall. If it gets really nasty, how many local party activists will just sit the election out over how their favored candidate was savaged during the primary?

I do hope though that the GOP in congress gets the scare out of this they deserve. Maybe they will start thinking they need to act like republicans to get repulbican votes.

Pofarmer

I'd like to know. Aside from Medicare prescription, and the wasted Katrina aide, what spending have you opposed?

Before you say all the money spent in Iraq, if you go to Heritage.org, you'll quickly find that military spending today is just about even, and actually lower than a good part the previous 40 years, as a percentage of GDP.

Other Tom

I hadn't realized that Brownback had the public religiosity affliction--a pox on him.

RickB, I think the days of such platforms are gone forever. If there is one event that captures the whole decline perfectly, it is the near-universal reaction to Katrina. It was assumed, unquestioningly, that it was the responsibility of the federal government to take care of these people and to rebuild their homes. (Contrast with the aftermath of the 1906 San Francisco earthquake). I think that feature of the collectivist impulse is irreversible, and we now see it playing itself out with the mortgage "crisis": banks make bad loans to people who can't pay them unless the value of the property continues to increase, and when the whole house of cards collapses it is generally considered the duty of the government to bail out both the lenders and the borrowers.

We are well past the point of no return on much of this stuff. I'm just glad I got mine when the getting was good, and I can sit back and watch the whole depressing carnival in personal comfort.

Pofarmer

Wow, that was one terribly worded sentence.

boris

I think that feature of the collectivist impulse is irreversible

Agree. At this point (if ever) it can not be addressed through the political process.

It will have to be a cultural change.

Porchlight

In progressive circles, "personal responsibility" is considered to be Republican code for "screw the poor." The default progressive position has long been "of course it's the government's job to take care of people." And I'm afraid Other Tom is right - that is slowly but surely becoming the default view of a majority of Americans.

I think it was Bob Novak who said that the Democrats are the mommy party and the Republicans are the daddy party. Well, the country is fast deciding (socially and politically) that mommies are preferable. Who needs a dad anyhow?

Other Tom

There is something terribly wrong with the shape of Howard Dean's mouth. Terribly wrong. It appears to be an equilateral triangle pointed downward.

Paul van Dame

THIS IS AMAZING! http://www.spymac.com/details/?2350301

ben

"Would you like to see the GOP regain control of the House? Why?"

Well yes I would actually, if only for some checks on a horrendous agenda the Democrats will pass if they have the Presidency and both legislative branches. Fairness doctrine, surrender to terrorists, economic protectionism, all kinds of goodies for big labor, tax increases of all sorts, open borders, voting right for illegals (or lack of enforcement thereof) etc.
I know its popular to say among conservatives that McCain is a liberal, that it doesn't make a difference etc. But it does, there is no doubt the legislation the Democrats will push through if they get complete power will be profoundly negative and lasting. So whether Republicans deserve what they got or not, let's not cut off our noses to spite our faces.

Porchlight
There is something terribly wrong with the shape of Howard Dean's mouth. Terribly wrong. It appears to be an equilateral triangle pointed downward.


Heh, OT. He also has that "big head, short arms" thing going on. Like a fireplug - a fitting physique for his personality.

Jane

What's with this "spymac" guy who posts a link every 12 hours? I have visions of clicking on it and getting a virus that will permanently put me out of business.

How bout an explanation Mr. Van Dame?

hit and run

Semanticleo:
I am so fed up with the choice between 'paper
or plastic' that I am seriously considering going 'Green' rather than voting none of the above.

YES!!! Power to the People!!!!

She is the best of Obama and Hillary all rolled into one. That is, she can play both the gender AND race cards.

Perfect!

Charlie (Colorado)

It always amazes me how many comments there are on JOM that employ an occasional oath, or curse, but almost never vulgar profanity. But, let a Liberal appear and it is almost guaranteed that there will be one or more vulgarity in the comment.

Fucking A.

clarice

VIMH Has Barack of Ages---Rolling on the floor. Hit, you are too great.

kim

Jane, I think it is an art gallery with donations accepted. The Bilo Baby was cute.
=======================

hit and run

Yes, I feel very guilty. The idea came to me during church this morning, and I was completely distracted through the whole sermon.

Other Tom

I've always said I'd prefer McCain to any Dem in the White House. If we get him there, he can stop the horribles of a Dem House. If we don't get him there, there's not much point in discussing what a GOP House might do, because they'll be back to an Eisenhower-era minority.

But I have, to be sure, overstated my case. My case is simply that, finally given the chance after forty years in the wilderness, the GOP did as horrible a job as it was possible to do with a House majority, particularly given that they had a Republican president. One of the great political disappointments of my lifetime.

Other Tom

What is the address of VIMH?

clarice

Hit Hit's name on posted by, OT

centralcal

Oh great. Yesterday I was humming Camptown Races all the doo-dah day. And, now it will be the Barack of Ages hymn.

Larry

Rolling Stone calls Obama the new Lincoln. They're wrong; he's the new Edsel.
================= Posted by: kim | March 09, 2008 at 01:26 PM Lincoln is merely the most expensive Ford, Sue.
Awe-inspiring post at: http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcomDOTcom/index.
php?url=archives/7821-Major-Brian-Shul-I-loved-that-jet.html&serendipity[csuccess]=true

centralcal

Dean looks like Sponge Bob Square Pants come to life in human form. Square head, no neck and the fire-hydrant physique Porchlight mentioned.

Charlie (Colorado)

It always amazes me how many comments there are on JOM that employ an occasional oath, or curse, but almost never vulgar profanity. But, let a Liberal appear and it is almost guaranteed that there will be one or more vulgarity in the comment.

Fucking A.

Pofarmer

Things really get whirly when you have Neocon Deniers.

Not really a denier. I'd just like to know.

Let's for example, compare the costs of invading Iraq and deposing Saddam, with the costs of allowing the Ayattolah to come to power in Iran. Could the whole Iran/Iraq war, and the current situation have been avoided totally??????

Or, let's wait and see what laying the groundwork for an Islamic govt in western Europe is going to be. That is Bubba's legacy, as much as Iran is Carters.
It's not a hard arguement to make.

hit and run

OK, I hear a lot of griping about daylight savings...you know, you spring forward, so you lose an hour.

Wrong! You spring forward, so you get to start drinking an hour earlier!

Stop the whining...the beer bottle is half full!

Oh wait....mmmmm.....mmmmmm.....mmmmmm....ahhhhhhhh....no it's not....it's empty.

Going to get another one.

kim

I meant 'denier' in the specific meaning of global warming denier.
========================================

Rick Ballard

"I think that feature of the collectivist impulse is irreversible, and we now see it playing itself out with the mortgage "crisis": banks make bad loans to people who can't pay them unless the value of the property continues to increase, and when the whole house of cards collapses it is generally considered the duty of the government to bail out both the lenders and the borrowers."

Dunno about that. Countrywide is gone - and the Feds are on the hunt. I wonder if CITI is one of the 15? It's stock went through the floor last week with no resistance.

Of course, it might also be part of JPM's "cut their throat and buy the carcass cheap" strategy.

We're a very long way from the election and RW turning BHO into a toad is the act in the center ring at the moment. VDH (lifelong Dem) offers an interesting assessment of the success of Dean's Revenge to this point.

Charlie (Colorado)

Wrong! You spring forward, so you get to start drinking an hour earlier!

Dude, how can you do that? That was years ago.

Other Tom

Does that mean you have to stop an hour earlier?

And yeah, the impulse to bail out the lenders is far weaker than that for the irresponsible speculators. The only ones who got treated unfairly by the meltdown were the people holding securities with these bad loans invisibly imbedded in them.

Other Tom

VDH's piece is priceless--he very rarely disappoints. I saw the incomparable Dorothy Rabinowitz confidently predicting all of this about two months ago. She characterized Obamamania as a movement, not a campaign, and noted that "movements always fade." If you think he's fading now, wait and see what he looks like when everyone arrives at the convention five-and-one-half long months from now.

I continue to think Hillary will end up with the nomination, although I just don't see how she can get it without seriously cratering the party and her chances. And Obama's best hope for avoiding the backroom deal is to say right now, as forcefully as he knows how, that under no circumstances whatsoever will he accept the VP position. Brother, would that strike the coldest kind of fear into all of their hearts. The poor dears...

sbw

Charlie (Colorado), I thought it but didn't have the brass to write it! -- Here's to you!

Porchlight

Off topic, here's your daily race-baiting story from the AP:

Moreover, some analysts think it's possible Obama's heavy black support is nudging some working-class white Democrats into Clinton's camp....[snip]

Ronald Walters, a University of Maryland political scientist who tracks racial trends and is writing a book on Obama, thinks Obama's strong support from blacks made it easier for some whites in Ohio and Texas to vote for Clinton.

"There's some of that," Walters said in an interview. He pointed to exit polls from Ohio, where 62 percent of all whites lack college degrees and many are anxious about their jobs in a weak economy.

"This is a racially sensitive group," he said, referring specifically to whites who earn less than $50,000 a year and did not attend college.

"They are the quintessential Reagan Democrats," he said. "They feel they've been left" and their resentment can have social and racial overtones.

Ohio exit polls support Walters' view. Eighteen percent of white Ohio voters said race was an important factor in their decision, and of that group, three in four voted for Clinton.

So 75% of 18% of white Dem primary voters in Ohio are apparently racist, according to an unidentified exit poll. No contrasting view to that of the AP's carefully-selected analyst was presented.

I was curious about this fabled exit poll, so I tried to look it up. This article from Boston.com repeats the "Eighteen percent of white voters" stat from the AP article, and says the exit poll was done by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International, but doesn't give the Democratic sample size.

This blog post from a Dayton paper says the Edison/Mitofsky poll had a sample size of 1,162 Democratic voters.

I can't find any info on how many of those sampled were white, nor can I find the actual questions asked, so I can't do the math any further. But if the AP article was indeed referencing the Edison/Mitofsky exit poll, that's a pretty small sample size.

Yet it was good enough for the AP, even though they couldn't be bothered to tell us where they got their information.

glasater

OT "My case is simply that, finally given the chance after forty years in the wilderness, the GOP did as horrible a job as it was possible to do with a House majority"

While your sentiments are pretty straight on--it just seems to me that more is expected of R's than D's.

Elliott

Right now, who's your favorite Republican Senator? Congressman?

McConnell, whom you cite, is a good pick I think. He was staunchly opposed to CFR (I believe he is the plaintiff in the BCRA Supreme Court case) and he is doing himself no harm in my estimation with his pwn3rship of one Harry Mason Reid.

As to my favorite Republican congressman, may it please the court to grant a continuance until next January?

Ranger

One more tidbit on the Republican loss. I was listening to one of the Chicago sunday evening politics shows on the radio, and an organizer for the Republican party said that Oberweis' primarry opponent was actually mobilizing his network of supporters to vote Dem as payback for the nasty primary campaign.

Sue

While your sentiments are pretty straight on--it just seems to me that more is expected of R's than D's.

I don't mean to sound flip, but duh...I do expect more of republicans than I do democrats. It is the reason I vote republican.

glasater

Sue--I've always felt that Reagan, current President Bush and to a certain extent Clinton have held back socialism in this country for just a bit of time.
When folks get tv and say that americans are going to have to lower their living standards--to level the playing field so to speak--with the rest of the world--the whole thing seems inevitable to me.
That's of course in my darker moments:-)

Sue

glasater,

I know. It reminds me of a commercial where a guy takes his chewing gum out and sticks it in a leak in a dam. It lasts for a second or two and then bam, the water starts leaking again, only faster. We have merely stemmed the flow towards socialism. We can't stop it entirely. And I fear this year it will be the bam moment.

Bill in AZ

Elliott, I'll second your motion for Tom McClintock - I've been reading stuff from him for a while now. How he survives and thrives in the socialist republik of Kalifornia is beyond me.

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