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March 08, 2008

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hit and run

No way Obama would be Hillary's VP.

He's too big for her, she's too small for him.

Like you say, she wouldn't want his star power. But he wouldn't want to be in that position for four years.

Here's how it goes down (if she were to get the nomination which is doubtful at this point):

She offers, with an understanding that he would gracefully refuse to try and heal the rift.

He declines. But he declines by saying, "I think that in the past 8 years, the Office of the Vice President has been abused by Dick Cheney, rising to powers never intended by our founders. I believe the office should be returned to its historical place in an administration. In this campaign, the people have made it clear that I have a role to play in our nation that far exceeds that role as Vice President. I shall return to the Senate to go about the business of [change, hope, unity, lining my pockets, whatever]."

And then we can pity the poor sap who then gets the nod -- who will be given the position of "the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination conceived." [John Adams]

And thus Obama keeps open the position of Dem frontrunner in 2012 if Hillary loses (and his declining the VP slot helps achieve this), 2016 if she wins, and a possible 2012 contender if she falters in her first term.

Paul Zrimsek

Only for a generation? Andy's getting practically phlegmatic in his old age.

Bill in AZ

please, no exit strategy - what in the world would I do with all this popcorn...

clarice

I'm just going to hum Camptown Races , heavy on the doo- da day for a couple of months..People who are constantly doubled over in laughter seem to attract people interested in getting them help--but humming seems safe.
"Goin' to run all night
Goin' to run all day
I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
Somebody bet on the gray

Oh, the long tailed filly and the big black horse,
Doo-da, doo-da
Come to a mud hole and they all cut across,
Oh, de doo-da day

Goin' to run all night
Goin' to run all day
I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
Somebody bet on the gray"

anduril

This is all quite a conundrum for the Dems. I look forward to seeing how they attempt to solve it.

kim

I bet on the gray mare,
I bet on the bay.
If I'd bet on ol Stewball,
I'd be free man, today.
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kim

Given the ignorance and idealism of many of the Obamamaniacs, mudwrestling will still be 'hope for change'. True believers are pretty faithful.

Especially when you are tangling with monsters. It's the essential delusion of high expectations.
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MarkJ

I keep thinking that if Hillary or Obama get elected this fall, the Democratic Party is going to rapidly decline into "Menshevik/Bolshevik" or "Girondist/Jacobin" factions.

And as we know, things didn't turn out so hot for the Mensheviks and the Girondists.

kim

Utimately, not for the Bolshevik and Jacobin factions, either. But what makes you think the Democrats will copy the Republicans?
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Jane

Well I could make a movie about a lusting-for-power red witch who will do anything to get rid of the young upstart. And she gets her thugs to carry out the much predicted inevitability for the likable black candidate and manages to blame it on the racist republicans.

I wonder if it would be a hit?

Ranger

Well, either way, McCain ends up with some very powerful stuff to use against either one.

If it is Hil, then he just keeps using the phrase "Clinton Restoration" every chance he gets to remind people of what is at stake.

If it is Obama, he just keeps asking 'what does he mean by change?' and pointing out that Obama was one of the most partisan Dems in the Senate while he's been there. I can just see McCain saying in a debate:

You know, Sen. Obama, you talk a lot about changing Washington and uniting people, but when you first arrived in Washington I tried to work with you on ethics reform, and you backed out after agreeing because your party decided they wanted to use a "culture of corruption" mantra in the next election cycle rather than actually fixing the problem. Now, your party is in charge of both houses of congress, and it is more corrupt than it ever was under Republican control.

Other Tom

I take no stock at all in Obama's current rejection of the VP possibility--there have been too many such disclaimers in the past by people who went on to accept the invitation.

On the other hand, I strongly agree with the purely tactical reasons why he would turn it down. (And it's hard to imagine any self-respecting politician accepting it. Think about it.) Ditto for the many reasons not to offer it to her if he is the nominee. So I think Bob Beckel is simply wrong when he says they'll both be on the ticket one way or another.

It's all very delicious to behold.

PeterUK

The trenches are being dug,the gun emplacements built,soon miles of barbed wire will be strung, mines planted.This looks to be a war of attrition which will leave both sides decimated.McCain should take a fishing trip for a couple of months,come back to finish off the "victor".

vnjagvet

It is now official. The Dem Primary Season is a "quagmire". I for one am appalled that there was "no plan" by either of the leading candidates for dealing with this situation. Clearly, neither is qualified for CIC.

clarice

Heh,vnjagvet

ben

I think Obama would turn down the VP for the obvious reason that if Hillary loses (without him as VP) he will be the frontrunner in 2012 against a 76 year old President. If she loses with him he is damaged goods. And he knows that if he accepts to run on her ticket he can say goodbye to his only ace in the hole, that he is a different type of politician. Once you are on Hillary's ticket, you are as establishment as they come, and corrupt establishment at that.

Jane

I think it depends if Barack is a true believer in that he believes democrats must save the nation at any cost, or if he is just in it from BO.

Jane

Oh - not "from BO" but for BO.

maryrose

Hil did not win the most delegates in Texas ergo she did not emerge with the prize . He won more delegates in texas in the caucus. She did not win where it counts-the delegate count.

drjohn

"Andrew Sullivan believes that Hillary is poised to fight a scorched earth battle that could alienate young voters and blacks from the Democratic Party and/or the political process for a generation."

Polls have Obama 87-11 over Hillary with black voters now. What could it go to? 95-5?
I think there's little downside to a vicious attack. And they're sure as heck not going to vote Republican.

kim

I happen to agree, dj; all those Democrats who hate the other faction hate Republicans even more. Nonetheless, let 'em have at it. It couldn't happen to better, or rather, more deserving, people.
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Fat Man

"I think it depends if Barack is a true believer in that he believes democrats must save the nation at any cost, or if he is just in it for BO."

Jane: If the answer to that question is not immediately obvious to you, then you would be as stupid as the people who think that there breathes a politician who is not in it for himself, first, last, and always.

Lutak

There is a way to sling mud, and there is a way to sling mud...

How do either of the candidates represent themselves on the major issues?

Websites like the one listed below could ultimately determine why more and more Democrats will defect to John McCain's camp.

Unfortunately, there is little about Obama that a website like this says that can be argued with...that is, unless you've flunked Philosphy 101 in college or never got to college in the first place.

Check it out:

http://www.chilkootmarketing.com/index.htm

What can be done?

Sooner or later all of us have to reckon with our consience and our higher intellectual powers and when this happens we will be invariably forced to choose between our higher principles or a particular candidate.

Which candidate is traveling down the wrong road with this?

Which do you think is going to win out? Our higher principles or the intellectual and physical attributes of a particular candidate?

Predictably, older voters will vote in favor of their 'principles'...obviously, because they are more concerned about what happens after death and the legacy they will leave behind.

The younger voters (in contrast), since they have more time left in life to recant, are more likely to be reckless and prograstinate with principle in favor of 'idealism'.

These are the young and youthful voters that Obama appeals to and also why a lot of us older folks see Obama as 'the Pied Piper of the niave'.

However, (which is the next question to beg itself): 'When does Barack's own conscience begin to bother him?'

Personally, I think Obama needs to start thinking about what he can do to 'remake' his image if he wants to win this election.

I'm not sure that he'll want to be that person he's beginning to look like against John McCain...who today represents everything that America stands for.

BUT, if Obama thinks he can win going the way he's headed, then let him go for it.

But, as for me and many like me who still sit on the fence until election time in November, we'll still be thinking that we'll have to live with ourselves long after this election is over in November and maybe these are the thoughts that the new young voters haven't considered yet...and there's still a lot that can happen between now and then...

And, this probably means that Obama faces a huge political swamp ahead...one that he has created for himself by already being impetuous on some very important issues.

-Jim Carder

kim

You're assuming Obama has a workable conscience. From the evidence so far, he hasn't.

Nice comment.
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