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March 17, 2008

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clarice

I wouldn't say you'd missed your calling, but this isn't so improbable that one of the spin doctors--having failed at all the other excuses--won't grab at it in desperation.
If I hear Bob Beckel for example reach for it tonight, I'll let you know so you can demand a cut.

kim

It's pretty obvious that Obama's spirituality is tortured, and will continue to torment him. His own spiritual transformation is what he has been waiting for.

Too bad he has to project so tragically.
===============

Sue

Clarice,

Bob is so into Obama. I have always liked him, even though I hardly ever agree with him. In fact, I've emailed him on occasion when he has said something truly outrageous and he has responded, usually with tongue in cheek, knowing full well he was spinning. Last night I wanted to reach through the screen and pull a Clarice. Grrrrrr..... About the only thing Bob and I have in common is we both dislike Hillary.

Jane

Sue,

I feel the same way about him, (and I thought that was a pretty good show - I liked all 4 consultants). I did think he was coming across as a raving lunatic last nite.

MayBee

Which show is Bob Beckel on?

PaulL

Victor Davis Hanson's conclusion is spot on:

****Any middle-of-the-road Democratic voter who sampled five or six of Wright's sermons, juxtaposed them with Obama's references to him as not particularly controversial, an uncle, a scholar, etc., wouldn't vote for Obama in a million years.****

Jane

Maybee,

Fox had a new show on last nite - I think it was called "Strategy Page". It was on at 10 here. Kristen Powers, Bob Beckel, the former campaign manager for Mitt, who was spectacular and a woman whose name escapes me, Michele someone, who was also really fabulous.

clarice

Exactly so,Paul..

Sue

Maybee,

Bob Beckel is on every Sunday night on Fox at 9:00 (Central), I think. It is Brett Baer's show.

GMax

I missed Beckel last night but he can be a horseass too. Anybody remember him during the Gore recount debacle? He was a slobbering partisan and not particularly well versed in the facts either. He is smart enough to know better I will grant, and at times he can seem engaging enough.

MayBee

Thanks, you two. I'll have to look for it. I have to sneak my Fox watching around here.

jane- was the guy from Romney's campaign the George Clooney looking guy? I would vote for him.

Jane

Speaking of Beckel - from The Campaign Spot:

Can Obama Come Back, Wright After This?

Melanie Morgan reports from Fox News Green Room:

After the segment was over, I exchanged seats with [Democratic strategist Bob] Beckel. As he was leaving, he slammed the studio door so hard that it almost broke some expensive audio/video equipment, according to the technican who was threading my microphone.

He was STEAMED.

Later, I asked him why he was so upset.

He replied ..."because Obama's people didn't vet him and now Hillary's going to win.'

This cam after Beckel had had to discuss Jeremiah Wright with Sean Hannity.

The fact that Clinton surrogate Nita Lowey refused to go after Obama on this suggests that either Team Hillary thinks the damage is being done, and that there's no need to intervene when their foe is self-destructing, or Lowey was simply unprepared. (Bill Bradley seemed to run rings around her yesterday.)

Shannen Coffin sees some wiggle room in Obama's statement that he never heard these kinds of statements, and that if he had heard them repeatedly, he would have left the church. (Ronald Kessler and Newsmax say Obama was in attendance for at least one sermon in this vein; but the Obama campaign contends their man was in Florida that day.)

For most, the idea that Jeremiah Wright hid these views and statements from Barack Obama over the course of a 23-year relationship as mentor and pupil strains credulity. Obama just happened to sleep in every week that Wright sounded anti-American or raging notes? Did Wright check to see if Obama was in attendance before deciding what tone to take with his sermon?

Jane

Maybee,

Yeah altho I thought he looked enough like Mitt to be one of his kids - which he isn't.

clarice

Well, then we get back to Obama's judgement. Wright apparently told him early on their relationship would be a problem and yet Obama highlighted him on his website and touted their connection in his speeches.

I take it, he's supporters would say he did that to answer the charge that he was a Muslim..If so, whoever floated that, put him in an airtight box.

GMax

So maybe Barry will go back to using his middle name and talking about his madrassa upbringing? It surely will get a more favorable response that "I hate Honkies".

GMax

OT

Did anyone else catch the series on John Adams on HBO last evening? I love history, and its portrayal of Adams and his hand in the birth of our country was so well done, I did not leave my seat. Its a 7 part series I believe, so I think there is more to come. Dont miss it.

kim

Well, now, half of America is scared to death of Hillary and three quarters angry at Obama. Good going Dems. Get out the vote is going to be fun this year, because a lot of people will like none of the candidates.

I'm sending mind rays to Rove to get him back in the saddle. He should be in his glory; horse poop as far as the eye can see.
===============================

clarice

GMax, My husband's been reading a book on the Adams family which he adores and I promised to hold off watching the series until is return.

clarice

**His return***

Jane

So maybe Barry will go back to using his middle name and talking about his madrassa upbringing? It surely will get a more favorable response that "I hate Honkies".

That made me laugh.

HoosierHoops

Obama spoke a mile from my house saturday at 1:30pm at the local high school.
The tickets were snapped up in a half an hour. I really wanted to hear him speak but shy of that i decided to get on the bandwagon. I got my yellow robe out, shaved my head, fired up the incence and headed out to the airport do do some chanting, singing and dancing.
My question is this..Do i have to give the money i begged to the obama campaign or can i keep it? If not, will i need to fill out a W99 form?

HoosierHoops

headed out to the airport do do some chanting, singing and dancing.

That would be 'to do' some chanting..
But do do was pretty funny if you think about it.

Porchlight

I'm still scratching my head as to why Wright is news to anyone. Everything relating to Wright and TUCC has been readily available for scrutiny since before Obama's campaign began. There were even pointers in both Obama's books if you didn't know what or whom to look for. Bob Beckel is supposed to be a Dem strategist and even he seems to have been blindsided.

I just don't get it. Did Obama have all these people hypnotized or something?

Ann

Has John Kerry declared that his candidate is being swift boated, yet?

Wouldn't that be fun?

Tom Maguire

He replied ..."because Obama's people didn't vet him and now Hillary's going to win.'

In defense of Obama's handlers, look at the slow waltz that greeted Al Sharpton when he ran for the Dem nomination. The notion that neither the media nor a rival Dem would attack a black minister probably seemed like a good bet, or at least, a bridge they could cross (or jump off of) later.

Did anyone else catch the series on John Adams on HBO last evening?

I have not been able to take Paul Giamatti seriously in any other role since I saw him turned blue in "Big Fat Liar".

That especially ruined the movie where he was supposed to be the hard-bitten chief of police in old Vienna... The Illusionist? That was it.

Anon

OK remember Wright's 9/11 screed-

Well I just realized last night when I watched it on FOX instead of the internet that the date of that screed was on-

Sept. 16, 2001

He's going on like that, and the crowd is cheering only five days later.

And he's spewing that when the chickens come home to roost line/vile.

I thought that was Ward Churchill's or are they both borrowing that line from someone else?

What came first the damn chicken, the damn roost, or damn everybody but us?

Anon

Let me go research that date again and make sure that I've got it right...

Because when I saw it last night I was wondering why -the pundits on FOX-were not mentioning how soon after 9/11 he was spewing that brew.

Porchlight

I thought that was Ward Churchill's or are they both borrowing that line from someone else?

Ann, Malcolm X described JFK's assassination as "the chickens coming home to roost," because America had been responsible for so much violence around the world. IIRC X's speech was made within a week or two of JFK's death.

Count me in with the folks who would like to know if Obama in the pew on 9/16/01 during that sermon. Hard to imagine he would be anywhere else...

Rick Ballard

"Did Obama have all these people hypnotized or something?"

BHO Fever - It's a combination of early onset Alzheimers and wild hallucination (vide Dean Fever Fall '03 - "we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House! YeaAHarrrrrgh!!!")

I expect that BHO will just rise above this. About as well as Senator Lamont did.

Anon

Thanks Porchlight-somehow I missed that class at Boulder...

How I got through that school without knowing that-I'll never know.

Gad-I'm going to have to turn in my hippie license.

Too many nights at Tulagi's.

Wait I only danced on a table there once..

GMax

I have not been able to take Paul Giamatti seriously in any other role since I saw him turned blue in "Big Fat Liar"

No blue, and a patricians wig most of the time. He was good, and I did not think about the " They told me to pick up and tow a little blue car, they never said anything about a little blue man." line until you brought it up.

I am sure Jefferson will use it when Adams aces him for the Presidency by a few votes.

kim

Obama repackaged junk spirituality and slipped it past the regulating agencies. Now the buyers are remorseful. The Democratic Party is nearly bankrupt and the Clintons can buy it for a song.
===================

Porchlight

Oops, sorry, Anon not Ann. Need to put my glasses on.

You didn't miss much at Boulder, that's for sure. Although I did think Malcolm X's stories of life as a young man in Harlem (before he became famous) were fascinating.

sbw

[OT} As far as reading John Adams books, put the David McCullough CD in your car and listen. Makes you want to drive.

Then donate it to your library when you're done.[/OT]

Anon

NO problem Porchlight-I can't really find proof of the date except that other commenters on blogs noted it too,but they don't link.

I did find this though at the Sun Times-the new pastor is in the house, and the trinity Church has made a statement about Wright's character being assassinated-

"Nearly three weeks before the 40th commemorative anniversary of the murder of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.'s character is being assassinated in the public sphere because he has preached a social gospel on behalf of oppressed women, children and men in America and around the globe,'' the church said in a statement released Sunday.

During a Sunday evening service, Pastor Otis Moss III spoke of "external forces" that want to "box us in and vilify us."

In a Palm Sunday sermon laden with symbolism, Moss seemed to liken a biblical donkey or colt to the oppressed. To undermine it, "You have to assassinate the colt's character," Moss said to shouts of "Preach."

"....The domesticated donkey says, 'You need to stop talking that social justice stuff" and speak only of Jesus, Moss said.
Link

I dunno are we the donkeys? Or is-man just who is he callin' donkey?

Ummm...

fdcol63

"Did Obama have all these people hypnotized or something?"

Yeah. It's called hallucinogenic Kool-Aid.

MayBee

Anon- ABC has the date you say:
In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

At this point, I would really really really like some evidence that Obama supported the Afghan war before it started. Before it became the 'good' war.

clarice

Jane, that's an interesting report from Morgan..I'd say Beckel knows when the cause is lost.

Appalled Moderate

TM:

Frankly, what bothers me is not how Obama wants to micro-manage the teaching of history in American scholls, but that he wants to micro-manage it at all.

None of you guys have pointed that out. Has Bush-ism on education been so corrupting that you can't see a good argument on Federalism when it presents itself?

Neo

There is still enough time for Pennsylvania Republicans for re-register as a Democrat for the primary, then switch back to Republican for the general election.

Just all it payback for Rendell's opposite suggestion, which many Democrats took up, to do the same to Toomey when he ran against Specter last time.

Sue

a book on the Adams family

My favorite family. Though I have trouble deciding between Morticia and Gomez which is my favorite. Oh, wait, you said Adams family, not Addams family. My bad.

::grin::

Sue

Jane,

I didn't see Beckel on H&C. I wonder if there is a transcript? Very interesting stuff you found.

MayBee

None of you guys have pointed that out. Has Bush-ism on education been so corrupting that you can't see a good argument on Federalism when it presents itself?

But we have been pointing it out, AM, from the early days of the Dem primary debates.
He isn't running for school board; they aren't running for school board. Whether it's changing curriculum or increasing teachers' salaries, the President of the US shouldn't be doing it.

Anon

Neo-

Oh Justice!

Not only payback for that to Ed Rendell.

Remember that story where he sent absentee ballots to the military about a month late and then would not allow them enough time to get back CONUS while at the same time making it easier for prisoners to vote in PA-I think that was back in 2004.

Jane

Too many nights at Tulagi's.

Anon,

I did that - well not the dance on the table part.

Some guy is holed up at the Boulder Hospital in a wheel chair and oxygen tent as we speak, saying he has a bomb.

kim

Maybe his spliff is 'Da bomb'.
=================

Sue

Obama to give a major speech tomorrow on race. What should we expect to hear? How we have trashed a man of God for telling the truth? We are being divisive?

clarice

Is he taking questions afterwards?

Would he be doing this if his internals didn't show the effect the Wright disclosures on having on his campaign?

clarice

**Are having on his campaign*******

fdcol63

MayBee,

"At this point, I would really really really like some evidence that Obama supported the Afghan war before it started. Before it became the 'good' war."

Me, too. Unfortunately, the only thing I can find is this transcript, supposedly from a speech he gave in Oct. 2002 when he was preparing for his run for US Senate, that seems to corroborate his claim that he supported the war in Afghanistan:

http://www.politicaldiscussion.info/forum/about139092.html

Money quote:

"I don't oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again."

Sue

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VEE9OO0&show_article=1>Obama decries racial rhetoric

You would think he was talking about his pastor, right? He isn't.

"It reminds me: We've got a tragic history when it comes to race in this country. We've got a lot of pent-up anger and bitterness and misunderstanding. ... This country wants to move beyond these kinds of things."

He wants us, you and me, to move beyond what we have learned about his church. He doesn't want his church to move beyond it.

clarice

If he wants us to move beyond it why did he give tens of thousands to a man who stirs it up?

Sue

Clarice,

Exactly. Except, over at http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/obama_will_speak_on_wright_rac.php>Marc Ambinder's they don't agree.

P.S. I think I found Maggie over there.

Anon

Jane-

Oy well I think I only was there twice and then ended up at the Delta Tau Delta's which, umm got disbanded shortly there after.

Hell the guy I hung out with from there is currently a Washington lobbyist...

Umm let's just say he knew how to have a good time.

It didn't involve chickens roosting, more like a snake -boa constrictor that got "lost" in the house but sometimes you could smell it.

Gawd!

Anon

Sue-

Hell I found Maguire...

Sue

I know I found Tom McGuire over there. He's everywhere, like Savoir Fare.

Sue

Anon,

::grin::

Jane

Oy well I think I only was there twice and then ended up at the Delta Tau Delta's which, umm got disbanded shortly there after.

LOL - I don't have any idea if that's a sorority or a fraternity - and I can honestly say I've never been in either in my entire life - wait - I take that back, once at Dartmouth, a long long long time ago.

(And there is a guy I used to hang around with there who I expected to be president by now. Hmmmm, I wonder what happened to him)

Charlie has more than passing familiarity with The Hill. I'm sure he will be around at some point.

Anon

Jane-

OMG LOL! It's a fraternity...

Umm they kid of adopted me. The Hill crap all I remember is twice at Tulagis, and maybe a beer crawl on Pearl Street during Halloween...

I only spent the last two years there-first at Nichols Hall and then the Quad.

GMax

Sue

Gosh Maggie didnt sound like a Republican leaning independent AGAIN!

And the true believers just chose not to read TMs comment, it was just too painful to contemplate.

BTW if you have seen it The right rev Jeremiah Wright Jr. in his book "Blow the Trumpet for Zion" recounts his life at College and list a quote about how he grew to hate "honkies" daily while there. Page 5 I believe.

Can we all just get along?

MayBee

Is Maggie the one that wrote "Me, shuddering" on a thread here the other day?

Sue

Maybee,

Yes.

Neo

aren't given enough attention.

When was the last time Obama or AP looked at a modern day history book ?

The last one I looked at portrayed history as a series of screw-ups, in a bi-partisan manner for the most part.

I was left amazed that any progress had ever occurred.

Charlie (Colorado)

Boulder cops just plugged the guy.

Sue

Charlie,

Wait for the firestorm. It's always the cops fault.

MayBee

Thanks, Sue. I keep trying to imagine who would write like that.

fdcol63 - thanks. I've seen that speech before. It is pretty carefully phrased, and of course after the fact. Many people had 'always' supported the war in Afghanistan after it was clear it was pretty successful. Just as we hardly ever hear people talking about how they'd advocated delaying the votes in Iraq after so many people came out and there was so little violence.

Look at this little bit of hyperbole, though:

I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy [9/11] from happening again.

Why would he say that? He obviously wouldn't and isn't. What tripe.

Jane

I only spent the last two years there-first at Nichols Hall and then the Quad.

That's so funny - I was only there for 2 years too and I think I lived off campus altho I remember Nichols - but it's been so many years I can't possibly remember.

How sad is that?

Charlie (Colorado)

Sue, the Boulder cops train with the Denver cops. It's not a bad first guess. But this sounds like a suicide by cop.

Anon

Jane-

Ummm ya I'm having the same memory fades.

Cripes depressing between that-the memory thang- and-this Dem nomination process-I'm getting stressed out.

I need to hit the tread mill-since this extension of the primary I've been gaining weight like a...

Yes damn it I'm going to get all liberal and blame the damn dems for my weight problems.

maryrose

New CNN poll has Obama up 53% to Hillary47%. Hil is a joke inher speech today trying to get to the right of Obama on Iraq war. Too funny! Bill on ABC this morning saying Obama made up his use of race card in SC. Just got back from St. Patrick's Day celebration and was relieved to learn my in-laws didn't vote for Hillary . I also came face to face with Dennis Kucinich at an inner-city catholic church which may be scheduled for closure. Our new Bishop is from Boston and is known in these parts as the Terminator.Dennis worried about losing his seat-hence his appearance at the parish.

GMax

See your CNN and raise you one Scott Rasmussen.

The question was after the remarks of Pastor Wright are you more likely or less likely to vote for Barack Obama. The results:


Less Likely 56%
No Impact 30%
More Likely 11%

Even Democrats said less likely 44% of the time. Only some blacks thought it was RIGHT ON!

maryrose

Clintons made this a black/white election. We need to move on from this old time prejudicial religion. Ultimately I will vote for Mccain but the war for middle class people still takes a very high position in Ohio.Appalachian whites that Hillary got are the really uneducated and poor people of southern Ohio. Obama needed a better turnout in Cuyahoga county in Cleveland. Obama has won the most delegates in Texas and Nevada so I don't put those two states in Hillary's win column.

GMax

Scott Rasmussen again explaining how the fever was broken:

Looked at from a slightly longer perspective, Obama’s overall favorable ratings peaked at 56% on February 21, shortly after he won the Wisconsin Primary. At that point, Clinton began raising questions about Obama as part of the campaign that ultimately enabled her to win the Texas and Ohio Primaries. Since then, Obama’s net favorability ratings have fallen seventeen points (from plus 14 points on February 21 to minus 3 points today).

Porchlight

Gmax,

Put another way, the second Obama was held to any kind of scrutiny, he began taking on water and hasn't yet stopped. Not much of a candidate once the shiny paint starts to peel, huh?

clarice

Neither Willie Brown nor Larry Elder (H & C) were buying the black experience/out of context defenses offered by Kristen )

ben


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7299569.stm

I wish the MSM would cover this story, about how the Iraquis themselves feel things have changed...but that's wishful thinking.

vnjagvet

Is anyone watching Greta VS interviewing Slick Willie tonight.

For me this is tough to say, and it may sound like apostasy or at least hypocrisy.

He sure was engaging, and I would love to take a practical political science seminar from the guy.

Better yet I would love to talk politics with him in an Irish Pub over a few pints.

He is the best bullshitter I have ever seen, bar none.

For a trial lawyer, that is really saying something.

Got to give credit where it is due.

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