New Barack Thread

Don't stop thinking about Barack's lack of tomorrows.

Michael Crowley of TNR has an otherwise good assessment of the speech which includes this howler of an aside:

One of Bill Clinton's greatest political assets (before this campaign) was his ability to be a Nixon-in-China when it came to race; his successful mid-90s defense of affirmative action is a perfect example.

A Democrat defending black interests generally and affirmative action specifically - gee whiz, who could have seen that coming?  Lest Mr. Crowley has forgotten, Nixon had a decades-old reputation as a bitter anti-Communist when he made his 'I will go to China' announcement.  Clinton's promise to end welfare as we know it was more of a Nixon-China thing, although it took a Republican Congress and the threat of an election to turn that promise into reality.

Well.  This from Mr. Crowley is good, or at least, I had a similar reaction in that I completely failed to hear this segment of Obama's speech:

The second way in which Obama's speech may have come up short was the scant attention it devoted to social failures within the black community. This, again, was a theme that Bill Clinton used masterfully to establish himself as both a student of black culture and someone unwilling to indulge its worst excesses. It's true that Obama did urge blacks to avoid "becoming victims of our past," and take "full responsibility for our own lives--by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them." But this was a small part of his speech and not at all its tonal emphasis. Yet it seems quite likely that millions of white voters still see black America as indulgent of criminality and insufficiently devoted to education and work. Obama's fleeting lines about victimhood and reading to children do little to address that audience. As an alternative, Obama might have benefitted from invoking the example of Bill Cosby, who has morphed from comedian to one of black America's sharpest internal critics. "Your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other [the N-word] as they're walking up and down the street. They think they're hip. They can't read. They can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere," Cosby told a group of black activists in 2004 (who, it should be noted, cheered him on). There was nothing like that here from Obama.

C'mon, Obama didn't even take a shot at violent, misogynistic hip-hop - even Al Sharpton is on that bus.

"OUCH" FROM KAUS:

Troublesome Equivalence II

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street ...

The most disastrous sentence in the speech. If Obama's saying that those who fear young black men on the street are racists, the equivalents of Rev. Wright in offensiveness, then he's just insulted a whole lof ot people. If he loses the votes of everyone who fears young black men, he loses the election. People fear black men on the street--as even Jesse Jackson once momentarily admitted--because they cause a wildly disproportionate share of street crime. Does Obama want to be the candidate who says that thought is verboten?

Later he  says:

So when [whites] are told to ... that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Who would tell them such a thing? Obama, a dozen paragraphs earlier, dissing his own grandmother.

Someone is sure to mention the famous Jesse Jackson comment - may as well be me
NewsBusters:

There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. -- the Reverend Jesse Jackson, as quoted in US News, 3/10/96

As I recall Jackson later apologized for that remark, but the apology was for going off-message and providing ammo to, well, cranks like me.

Comments

[clarice]

He only reounces it when you call him on it's being offensive,TM. You know that!

[clarice]

**reNounces***

[Jane]

From what I've heard, the Messiah's speech hasn't gotten better over time. His supporters loved it. Everyone else, not so much.

[anduril]

Thank goodness, I found it--this is the all Bear all the time thread, right? I'll leave those chumps behind on the Obarack thread.

[anduril]

And just to be perfectly clear--I don't give a rat's ass about Bear. What I care about is where the economy is going and how that will affect the election.

[GMax]

Jane

Here is what I saw. Shep Smith, ( not my fav ) was almost giddy about the speech. He is a lone talking head for awhile and he cant think of enough adjectives, all are a theme on superlative. Then he has Juan Williams on. Juan tells him that the transcendent candidate just became the black candidate, and that is not good for his chances. He is calm and rational and I guess cuz he is black, Shep figures out that maybe he got it all wrong. Shep is visibly more subdued in the aftermath.

It was a tourniquet, applied in the field quickly to stop the hemorrage. It will not be enough, and wont stop the discussion. Hill wants the discussion to continue, it plays to her advantage.

[hit and run]

TM:
C'mon, Obama didn't even take a shot at violent, misogynistic hip-hop - even Al Sharpton is on that bus.

But TM, after VaTech...

Oh carp, is AT down?

[fdcol63]

At some point, we're all just going to have to say "F**K it! We all got screwed, sometime, somewhere, by somebody, over something. Instead of competing to see who's the biggest victim, we need to accept that we're all in the same boat NOW, so let's just put all this crap behind us and move forward, and promise to treat each other as full-fledged AMERICANS, with the respect and dignity that we all expect and deserve from each other."

As long as we continue to look in the rearview mirror, we're gonna keep hitting the potholes of the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdaM8mxEBtY

The Eagles - Get Over It

I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me"

They point their crooked little fingers at everbody else
spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if they gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers - kill 'em tonight
You don't want to work; you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing

Get over it
Get over it
If you don't want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, get over it

It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak

You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass

Get over it
Get over it
All this bitchin' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit
Get over it, get over it

Get over it

[clarice]

I think it is Hit.

[GMax]

Speaking of taking shots, the 2nd amendment case against the D of C was heard today. If oral arguments tend to reveal a justice's position ( I tend to believe they do ) then there will finally be a Supreme Court decision that indicates the Framers intended an individual right, not a right to a militia.

How that plays into how far a government can go to regulate the weapon possession is likely to be fought in future cases. D of C is an outright ban, and that wont fly if its an individual constitutional right.

[hit and run]

I didn't do it.

[clarice]

I never thought you did,Hit.

[hit and run]

Once more, with feeling...

TM:
C'mon, Obama didn't even take a shot at violent, misogynistic hip-hop - even Al Sharpton is on that bus.

OK, Obama:

was also quoted by The Associated Press in April as saying that rappers were "degrading their sisters. That doesn't inspire me."

Oooh, Bold!

But wait..

Obama told Vibe that he was misquoted — he was talking about the culture as a whole, not rappers in particular

Er, well, that would be < /b >

[hit and run]

I never thought you thought I did, Clarice.

::grin::

[yarrr]

isteve gave a good summary of the grannie section.

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/03/obama-throws-his-own-living-grannie.html

[Anon]

OMG!

Yuck! Help!

I was trying to find the lyrics to that chamillioniare song that Al Yankevich makes fun of and I saw the "urban dictionary" definition...

The title of which Wright refers to when talking about Bill Clinton..

Man hell ummm, I didn't know it meant that...

Damn nuns didn't teach me nuthin'.

[Anon]

In the pulpit no less.

Riding Dirty

[Jane]

It was a tourniquet, applied in the field quickly to stop the hemorrage.

He lost the independents. He's done. All the people not paying attention have just decided they can't vote for him.

All the Obama lovers think he did a great job. They saw themselves in his words. So what else is new?

Now the real battle becomes how Hillary steals the nomination against the guy who won, but can't win.

It's gonna be fun.

[Sue]

Obama isn't going to say anything against hip-hop music. His new pastor, Moss, has already given a sermon on it and it is corporate America that caused hip-hop to become gangsta rap. I would look it up, but my internet connection is sporadic. Storms everywhere. If it hasn't been pulled someone should be able to find where Moss blamed Sony/MCA for blacks calling their women ho's, bitches and the like.

[Jane]

Allah simply dismembers Obama - link under my name:

[docweasel]

Hell, even Chris Rock admits, when he's at the ATM, he's not afraid of the media, he's afraid you black men (he actually used another word for black men).

[hit and run]

Duck and cover Sue!

NRO's Media Blog, quoting Moss:

But then something happened in 1984 at the same time that Time Warner/AOL and SONY and MCA realized they could make money off of this music, guess what, we will give you a contract and distribute your song if you put in the N-word, if you put in the H-word, if you put in the B-word...so when we talk about gangsta rap, we are not talking about something that came from the street, we are talking about what came from the corporate boardrooms...

"And the same time that gangsta rap rises, we also have crack hitting the streets...I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it's mightily strange that gangsta rap and crack hit the same time in our community."

[centralcal]

I guess, I am alone in thinking this, but I believe that Obama's speech today made things worse.

Worse for relations between the races.
Worse for Obama.

Today was a sad day for me. I was never going to vote for BO, because of his liberal positions -- never because of his race. But, I was proud that we could have a viable black candidate who could win.

Now, never mind.

[Sue]

Thanks H&R.

[hit and run]

Oh, and Sue -- no need to duck and cover after all.

Obama calms the storm.

"Who is this man that even the wind and waves obey him?" Mt 8:27

[windansea]

Obama as Chance Gardener

President “Bobby”: Mr. Gardner, do you agree with Ben, or do you think that we can stimulate growth through temporary incentives?
[Long pause]
Chance the Gardener: As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.
President “Bobby”: In the garden.
Chance the Gardener: Yes. In the garden, growth has it seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have fall and winter. And then we get spring and summer again.
President “Bobby”: Spring and summer.
Chance the Gardener: Yes.
President “Bobby”: Then fall and winter.
Chance the Gardener: Yes.
Benjamin Rand: I think what our insightful young friend is saying is that we welcome the inevitable seasons of nature, but we’re upset by the seasons of our economy.
Chance the Gardener: Yes! There will be growth in the spring!
Benjamin Rand: Hmm!
Chance the Gardener: Hmm!
President “Bobby”: Hm. Well, Mr. Gardner, I must admit that is one of the most refreshing and optimistic statements I’ve heard in a very, very long time.
[Benjamin Rand applauds]
President “Bobby”: I admire your good, solid sense. That’s precisely what we lack on Capitol Hill.

[Ranger]

If Hill is smart she starts to publicly worry about Obama's "pattern of evasion." He did it with Rezko, denying then admitting. First it was no relationship over the house purchase, then he admitted they took a joint tour of the property. First it was "a boneheaded mistake', and now he is now finally admitting 'a series of bad judgements.'

With Rev. Wright is was 'I was never there when he said anything like this.' Now it is, 'I was there when he said some things.' More evasion.

Why do people have to drag the truth out of him?

[Sue]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/WN/Vote2008/Story?id=4473696&page=4>Jake Tapper isn't letting it go after all...

Why wasn't this issue dealt with until now? What else do voters not know about Obama? And how will voters receive his pledge to unite the country given his attendance at a church where those of his mother's hue might not feel comfortable?

Amid much keen thought and fine oratory, those questions, today, went unanswered.

[Jane]

I guess, I am alone in thinking this, but I believe that Obama's speech today made things worse.

Oh no no no. You aren't alone.

Hey I'm from the northeast. I was raised to love differences. My whole life I have found people who are different more interesting than people who are the same. Over the last week Obama has made me more skeptical of blacks then I have ever been in my life. I'm scared of people like his beloved reverend. I know a lot of people who are different than I am, but I don't know anyone like him.

Now that may be my charming Yankee naivety, but he's done real damage.

[MikeS]

I think Barack speaks well. But when I consider the influence, or lack of it, that he has had on Michelle and Rev. Wright, I don't think he leads well.

[Rick Ballard]

"But, I was proud that we could have a viable black candidate who could win."

We still may have one. McCain could easily pick Steele as his running mate. That would be a very welcome relief from a candidate so pathetically puerile as to speak on race from the state in which Lincoln gave his most famous speech, honoring men who marched to battle singing

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free;

I'm not about to forget the fact that there are millions of black Americans who understand, embrace and hold dear in their hearts the sentiments which Lincoln expressed and abjure with disdain the sentiments expressed by Wright. I understand that Obama may have felt that he had to have that base in Wright's church within that particular Progrssive Plantation and that political expediency dictated that he allow his daughter's to be poisoned if he were to have any hope of political success. That understanding precludes any desire to see him advance beyond reaping what he has sown.

[MeTooThen]

TM,

Man, you are still On-Fire!

Really.

I'm home from work.

Had a look around the blogosphere.

And as predicted, and called, the Speech was a Home Run!

Now I am not only certain that Barack Hussein Obama will be the Democratic Nominee for POTUS, but I am beginning to believe that he actually will be the POTUS.

Glory!

Glory!

Hallelujah!

For the all of the nay-saying, and "toast" saying, and fretting about the Jewish vote (the Jews will OVERWHELMINGLY vote for Obama), the Hispanic vote, (them, too) the shear excitement and frenzy that is Barack (The Blessed) will prove to be unstoppable.

Let's get beyond Move-On!

I tried that here and it didn't work.

It's time to Get Out of the Way.

Way.

Really.

Just sayin'.

[MeTooThen]

Rick,

Nice post.

I am sorry I missed it.

Michael S. Steele.

Now that's more like it.

I'm on that bus, bus driver!

[invernessie]

The thing I detest most about Obama is that he is unwilling to take a position on any issue in which others may disagree.

Sure, it's easy to diss Grandma, when the consequences are minimal. Obama's multitude of "Present" votes tell you all you need to know about him as a person. If he is afraid to take a stand on any issue, he won't take a stand when the stakes are high. He is all about expediency and positioning. What value has he brought? He's all form, no substance.

Obama refused to participate in a proposed Fox debate. What was he afraid of? His consituency? Do they carry more weight than his obligations to his state and country? Obviously so. If he is not willing to enter a relatively benign environment on behalf of his candidacy, how can we ever expect that he will stand up to the tyrants of the world?

[MeTooThen]

Invernessie,

You see, you are making the same mistake so many others here are making.

By not appearing on Fox he is standing up to the enemy.

What you fail to understand is that it is BushCo, Cheney, Halliburton, Big Pharma, White, Christian, JewNazi, Neocon (same thing, see JewNazi) Republican, Death Star, Fox News, US Military, HeteroFascists, that are the enemy,

So who are these tyrants of which you speak?

?

Chavez?

Castro Jr.?

Ahmadinejad?

Hamas?

Putin?

?

It is to laugh.

[bgates]

We can start using the middle name again.
The 'H' is for 'has-been'.

[Tom Grey]

A good, almost great speech.

No mention of partial-birth abortion.
Abortion is the social issue at the heart of the culture war.

No mention of how the overwhelmingly Democratic Party supporting teachers are in control of schools.

Too little or now mention of lots of things, BUT ... now we can talk about race!

[sammy small]

Obama forgot to include in his rationalizations the terrible toll a black woman had suffered at the hands of the Duke Lacrosse team....or something.

[RichatUF]

If he is afraid to take a stand on any issue, he won't take a stand when the stakes are high. He is all about expediency and positioning.

One of my fav's-Machiavelli's Indolent Prince

graf-

As Machiavelli wrote in The Art of War: "They thought . . . that it sufficed for a prince in the writing-rooms of palaces to think up a sharp reply, to write a beautiful letter, to demonstrate wit and readiness in saying and words, to know how to weave a fraud...to keep many lascivious women around, to conduct himself avariciously and proudly, to rot in idleness, to give military rank by favor, to be scornful if anyone might show them any praiseworthy path, to want their words to be oracular responses, nor did these no-accounts realize that they were preparing themselves to be the prey of whoever assaulted them..."

Not to go to far out on the limb, but BHO has enough characteristics of Pres. Clinton that BHO's term in office would mirror it in many respects. Weepy near apologies to Iran, genuflecting to the Palestinians, carousing with all manner of loathsome dictators-in short, BHO will be the first black Bill Clinton, but without the surprising good fortune that the first iteration had.

The difference is that Bill Clinton was willing to indulge Gingrich's program to a certian degree because Clinton was more interested in popularity than policy. BHO seems much more of a believer in progressive policy solutions and would ruthlessly pursue them (even more so than Hillary!) even in the face of unpopularityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[RichatUF]

Whoa-seems that the y key got a bit stuck.

Here's the link that I goofed

[Elliott]

I've usually been impressed by Steele, but I was taken aback when I was listening to C-SPAN and heard him say, "Race always comes before party," at Tavis Smiley's State of the Black Union event. (Video here; I believe he made the statement shortly after 5 p.m.) I would like to hear his explanation of that statement.

[sammy small]

"BHO will be the first black Bill Clinton."

I would change the word Clinton to Carter and we'd be in agreement.

[anduril]

centralcal, you're not alone. BO's candidacy has been disastrous for race relations.

[Paul]

Upon second reflection, the more I think, read and hear about Obama's speech the angrier I get.

How dare Barak lecture Ameica on racism!

Few Americans I know of any color quote, applaud and contribute to an anti-American racist like Jerimiah Wright.

Few Americans I know marry an anti-American racist like Michelle Obama.

Almost all Americans I know will salute the American Flag and wear a flag pin if asked at a political rally.

No Americans I know willingly talk several times a day to a cousin (Raila Odinga in Kenya) who leads a party expousing sharia law and participating in racial cleansing.

No Americans I know write glowing words about a half brother (Roy "Obonga" Obama who wants to "purify his life of all European influences".

He is the racist, not us.

This man will not lead us to racial healing. He will lead us to a race war. Here in Los Angeles, Latino gangs imbued with the same welfare state victim's anger perpetuated by Victimcrats like Jerimiah Wrights, are already picking off blacks drive by style, at bus stations, outdoor parties, driving throught the wrong neighorhood, etc. in an attempt to drive blacks out of Latino neighborhoods,

This is what Black ( and Brown) liberartion Theology will get ya.

[GMax]

Just when things seem to be going pretty well for Hill, something jumps the track. Today Superdelegate Jack Murtha throws his support to Hill. The gal cant catch a break.

[Soylent Red]

Hit:

Obama calms the storm.

Wouldn't it be cool if we could put all of Obamessiah's pithy words of wisdom in red letter text?

If by some fluke He gets elected we're gonna have to figure out how to do that.

Rick:

As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free

I have this printed on the flip side of my official card. I never get tired of it.

The Rest of You Worried About Race Relations:

Please don't stress about this. It is my experience that most blacks, educated past the fifth grade, see this for the BS that it is. Most don't hate whitey

[Soylent Red]

Typepad hates Soylent though

[Blenheim]

If memory serves, Jesse Jackson didn't just apologize for his remark, he completely denied its obvious meaning (that he's afraid of black men too) and offered an amazingly lame alternative explanation that went something along the lines of "...because whenever white people are around the police are always close by in order to protect them."

Priceless.

[Barry]

off

OK

[Barry]

dang

Turn it off, then turn it on.

[Elliott]

Rick,

That story datelined New Harare was pretty funny. I much prefer the Battle Hymn of the Republic to the Star Spangled Banner.

[Barry]

Success!

[Elliott]

If at first you don't succeed...

[Elliott]

Barry,

Have been over on the mainland?

[Bill in AZ]

"even in the face of unpopularityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy."

I thot you broke out in song :)

[TexasIsHeaven]

And while we are mentioning Abraham Lincoln - the Great Emancipator - let us also remember that the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 only set free the slaves in the South - not the North. In spite of the present day worship of Mr. Lincoln - he did not give a damn about the slaves.

I wonder if Senator Harris Wofford thought about that as he compared B_O to Lincoln this morning in his intro speech.

There are a couple of black ministers that I listen to a lot and there is no way what I hear in those black churches is even remotely close to what was being preached from the pulpit of Obama's church.

[GMax]

Where in the North do you contend there were slaves? Isnt that what the Mason Dixon line and the whole Missouri Compromise was about? The Underground railroad et cetera et cetera. Seriously. I think you may have jumped the rails about Lincoln. He put that nincompoop Johnson on the ticket as a balance. I see nothing in the record that indicates Lincoln did not truly wish to abolish slavery.

[Barry]

Elliot, I've been in China twice this year and just returned from Korea last week. It gets old...

I'm still reading as I have time and a connection.

[GMax]

The only place that you might have a small but legit point would be Maryland and Missouri. Both are considered border states and both did abolish slavery during the War, but other than that and the fact that West Va came about because of Va wanting to secede and these western counties not wanting to do so, I am pretty confident that all Northern States had abolished slavery before the War between the States. Most places in the Midwest never had slavery and thus never had to abolish it.

[Barry]

Heh GMax, not to start a civil war, but consider:

The undergroud railroad ended in Canada. Why? Because the northern states would hunt down escaped slaves and return them. Several northern states (escapes me which at the moment) had laws forbidding blacks from entering the state or requiring a hefty fee for doing so.

The Emacipation Proclamation did indeed only free slaves in the southern states and came as Lincoln was afraid the north might lose. It was a defensive move, intended to promote rebellion in the southern states. As I recall, Lincoln arrested, without cause, about half the Maryland legislature to prevent them from voting for succesion, which would have left DC surrounded by the South. Lincoln had newspaper editors arrested that did not print the Lincoln line. Lincoln ordered the arrest of the Chief justice of the Supreme court, but the order was not carried out.

Without the slavery issue, there would have not been a civil war, but the war was fought over money. The federal budget was about 85% funded by the south (import duties, the ones Lincoln wanted to raise), while the south received in return about 15%. Raising the import tarifs was going to kill the trade between the south and Britain/Europe, killing the south economically.

[TexasIsHeaven]

"The Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves in the United States. Rather, it declared free only those slaves living in states not under Union control. William Seward, Lincoln's secretary of state, commented, "We show our symapthy with slavery by emancipating slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free." Lincoln was fully aware of the irony, but he did not want to antagonize the slave states loyal to the Union by setting their slaves free."

This quote from PBS website on Emancipation Proclamation. Certain parishes in Louisiana, certain counties in Virginia, Kentucky, the border states GMax.

I'm not defending slavery GMax - I'm just saying that to Mr. Lincoln the issue of slavery was secondary - preservation of the Union was number one on his list.

[Cln]

Is Bill going to pain us if we don't vote for him? Heart attacks, accidents? Obama is no different from Bill. Dem painer.

[Sara]

TT, I can't speak for other Northern States, but here is Pennsylvania:

In 1779, Pennsylvania passed the first abolition law in America. The measure was praised for embodying the spirit of enlightenment at the time, but its gradual terms were no godsend.

The law did not emancipate a single slave - anyone who was a slave the last day before it went into effect March 1, 1780, remained a slave until death unless freed by his or her owner. All children born of slaves after the law took effect could be kept enslaved until age 28. So it would have been possible for a slave girl, born on the last day of February 1780, to live out her life in slavery. And for her children, theoretically born as late as 1820, to remain slaves until 1848.

Total abolition didn't come to Pennsylvania until 1847.

However, by 1810, the number of slaves in PA was 795 down from 3,760 the year the law was passed.

In any case even the final compliance in 1847 was years before the Emancipation Proclamation.

[Sara]

Just for comparison purposes to the PA numbers, here are the numbers from the 1860 census:

Total number of slaves in the Lower South : 2,312,352 (47% of total population).

Total number of slaves in the Upper South: 1,208758 (29% of total population).

Total number of slaves in the Border States: 432,586 (13% of total population).

[bgates]

You know, the slave trade to North America only got started after Europeans managed to sail there. And they would never have done that if they weren't in Europe to begin with. And they wouldn't have been in Europe if they hadn't moved from their previous home. And human nature being what it is, they probably moved because they were forced out by the people living in the ancestral home of Europeans and everybody else: Kenya.

If Barack's dad's family hadn't been such sunsabitches to the ancestors of white people, no black people would ever have come to North America as slaves.

[Elliott]

Do we know for certain that Obama's daughters would have heard Wright's sermons? Might young children have been elsewhere during the service, stuck in Sunday school or engaged in other activities for kids?

[kim]

Hate filled that church, and flooded the basement, too.
==================================

[r flanagan]

I heard Julius Lester make a comment very similar to Jesse Jackson's about black criminals .And why be surprised ? Shouldn't we expect Blacks to react the same as us?
Not just Condi and Colin but the person next to us on the subway. Prick a Black, doth he not bleed?

When I moved to New York in the 70s I had my own automatic but unvoiced assumptions about the Blacks around me on the subways. For a while. Then, waiting on the platform I watched a blind ,white woman feeling her way along. Her cane missed a metal stanchion and she was headed towards it until a black woman
literally leapt sideways to stop her.

And I gradually came to realize that while the troublemakers on the subways were more apt to be black , so were the "good samaritans"- who until they acted looked exactly the same as the blacks of whom I was suspicious.

Ultimately my mother in law moved in with us when suffering from a degenerative disease.
We hired helpers to spend the day with her.
Low income blacks with no educational credentials. Three in particular. One was a bitch. The other two were exemplary human beings who remain our friends 20 years later.

We've just attended the ceremony at which one of them, now 50, was the oldest student in her class when she graduated from a demanding college with a nursing degree .

Prick a Black, doth she not bleed?

Some of the posts above express perfectly acceptable sentiments. Maybe most. Some are
racist. And those of you who aren't should
rebut them

[kim]

P
R
A
Y
=

[Great Banana]

R. Flanagan,

Nobody on this board ever stated that there are no wonderful human beings who happen to be black. Instead, as you also point out, people have pointed out that the vast majority of street crime is committed by blacks - so that BHO's grandmother's fear of black men on the street were grounded in fact - much like your own fear on the subway.

the point goes further - that BHO's use of his grandmother's fear of black men on the street is the moral equivalent of the hatred spewed by Wright is absurd and, frankly, racist. It demonstrates that BHO has nor moral compass and no true understanding of race issues in this country, does not have good jugment, and demonstrates that his underlying political philosophy (which he refuses to divulge even while running for president) is likely closer to Wright's than to rational thought.

[Great Banana]

Indeed, from this speech it seems BHO's take on race in America is:

- Black people are angry and have a right to be angry;

- White people need to give black people more money and do more for black people.

This is hardly a thoughtful or realistic view of how to improve conditions in the black community in America or how to improve race relations.

Indeed, it is simply the same cliche riddent b.s. that the left spews constantly.

How anything in BHO's speech is considered "great" is beyon me. Yes, he speaks well and has great delivery. But there was absolutely no substance there. No new ideas, no new insights, no new policy proposals or solutions. No hard truths to the black community - just the same ol', same ol'. How does this pass for "great" or "inspirational"?

[Rick Ballard]

"but the war was fought over money"

Standard Marxist sophistry. A comparison of the cost of the war to the "potential economic benefit" to be derived by either side would indicate that an analysis of the potential ratios involved had not been conducted by anyone who could count beyond their fingers prior to the opening of hostilities. Only someone weaned on Beard and Zinn would be able to believe that nonsense.

The total Federal peace time budget of 1860 was about $63 million. The Civil War cost about $6 billion (Union only and not including pension benefits).

[Rick Ballard]

Here is an interesting contemporary account of the costs and purposes:

WE must never lose sight of the main object of the war, and of the means by which that object can be attained.

This war is prosecuted for the maintenance of the Union and of the indivisible nationality of the United States. It is not, as foreigners suppose, a war for tariffs, or on account of slavery.

Of course, Harper's hadn't the benefit of Beard's or Zinn's nuanced hindsight.

[r flanagan]

"his underlying political philosophy (which he refuses to divulge even while running for president) is likely closer to Wright's than to rational thought"

He disclosed quite a bit in Dreams from my father". You could read it and see where it falls on the spectrum between Wright and rational thought.

"No hard truths to the black community"

Why should he be expected to express hard truths to the black community?

No one asked Bush to speak hard truths about
southern whites. Or JFK to speak hard truths about Irish Catholics.Or Joe Lieberman to speak hard truths about Jews.The phrase "self hating Jew" is an epithet not an accolade.

In fact ,there doesn't seem to be a universal outcry for politicians to criticize the particular segment of society from which they come. Or have I missed those demands ?

[boris]

Why should he be expected to express hard truths to the black community?

Actually he didn't need to give them the hard truth, but it might have helped Obama to be perceived as leading the inevitable.

The hard truth is all too obvious now. Any in the black community who still don't get it never will, but pretty sure the rest do.

It's over. As motivation and disinspiration based on exaggeration and lies it has been discredited because it's now toxic. Unfortunately Obama made excuses for it and will cravenly follow (out of necessity) the hard truth he could not bring himself to speak.

[DC]

Sometimes the stuff I read on mainstream blogs astonishes me: do you REALLY think that having a general fear of black males, when walking on "the street" is NOT racist? Of course it IS racist to actually believe that. There's no rational basis for that kind of feeling, and if you think there is, then you need to examine your reason for that gross exaggeration. Now, if you were to change that general statement to something situational -- like, it's 2 am on a deserted street in the worst section of town -- well, maybe you would have a point (even though I would be wary of anyone in that situation). BUT the general statement you make here is just wrong-headed, and demonstrates why discussions about race attitudes must be well thought out. You can do better.

[Sue]

About all I've gotten out of this is no matter what I do, blacks are in their churches preaching damnation against me. It was sure an eye opener to find that blacks weren't offended, in fact found nothing wrong with, what the right Rev. Wright was preaching. Why should I put forth any more effort than they do at uniting the races?

[Sue]

and demonstrates why discussions about race attitudes must be well thought out

What? You don't think we put as much thought into race attitudes as the right Rev. Wright did? Obama says it is okay to blame whitey as long as you are respectful to them while face to face.

[boris]

When 5% of the population is responsible for 80% of street crime it is only human nature for an elderly woman to feel apprehensive about them. Human nature is not always fair or PC but calling an old lady names is ugly and mean.

[clarice]

Well, the msm can continue to Kerryize* the speech, but the truth is that the air has been bleeding out of the Obama balloon since late Feb and the coming races are not likely to go to his way meaning the aura of invincibility has faded everywhere except the press rooms.Reuters today:"WASHINGTON - Democrat Barack Obama's big national lead over Hillary Clinton has all but evaporated in the U.S. presidential race, and both Democrats trail Republican John McCain, according a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday. The poll showed Obama had only a statistically insignificant lead of 47 percent to 44 percent over Clinton, down sharply from a 14 point edge he held over her in February when he was riding the tide of 10 straight victories. "

And the Dem's dilemma remains. Because of their idiocy he holds the most elected delegates and there is no way in hell he will win the general election, but if the superdelegates act on that the party will explode.And the party will explode, in part, because the msm is not adequately and accurately covering this development.

As for whether his grandmother's remarks were racist--she was relating to her left wing kook of a husband why she wanted a car ride from his sorry ass to work--because a burly black man at the bus stop was intimidating her. Now she was working to support her grandson--her Black grandson--dumped on her lap by his Black father and his lefty mother who thought studying blacksmithing in Indonesia was more important than her obligation to her son.

Am I sexist if I say being harrassed by men on the street or even hearing them walking behind me on a dark street makes me somewhat anxious? If so, tant pis. It is simply prudence and self-preservation to my mind.

*Kerryize--the ability of the msm to suck out its own brains to advance a left agenda as it did in treating as a serious endeavor Kerry's effort to camapaign as a war hero "reporting for duty".

[Sue]

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWY2NDViOGE0YjNhNjU3NTI0ZGE5MGQ3NmJhODE2Y2E=>Hanson once again knocks it out of the park.

Yet in the general election, millions will still remember how Obama’s pastor and confidant Reverend Wright cursed their culture and their country, and they will still remain confused about his relationship with and influence upon their would-be next President—and in the end they will be very much angered by all that indeed.

[r flanagan]

Boris:"The hard truth is all too obvious now. Any in the black community who still don't get it never will, but pretty sure the rest do."

I'm part of the rest and I don't get it. What is the hard truth?

DC:"do you REALLY think that having a general fear of black males, when walking on "the street" is NOT racist ?"

Yes I do. I believe there's a higher probability of my being mugged by a black than by a white and Obama was wrong to consider that that was a racist reaction on his grandmother's part. I don't hold that against him , I think it shows he's just as unable to be objective as most of us- certainly all those who posted above.Including me.

[boris]

I'm part of the rest and I don't get it.

Well then I won't say that again. Let me rephrase: "Any in the black community who still don't get it never will, but pretty sure the rest (excluding FlimFlanagan) do."

[clarice]

Is the test whether anyone can be purely objective about everything? If so, all of mankind fails, rf.

I think the test in this context is whether one's words or actions advance the sort of atmosphere necessary for a well functioning society appropriately cognizent of the legitimate rights and aspirations of all.And if it is the latter, Wright fails and Obama's failure to honestly address the failings of Black liberation theology is a major shortcoming for a Senator and an aspirant for the presidency.

[Extraneus]

I think this is all good, especially if Barak flames out over this.

No longer will Wright and his ilk be so easily tolerated, and congregants will have to wonder about their future political viability when they worship in such places. Until now, these so-called "Reverends" could preach this stuff in full view without a care. If Barak goes down over this, that'll end if it hasn't ended already.

[MayBee]

As for whether his grandmother's remarks were racist--she was relating to her left wing kook of a husband why she wanted a car ride from his sorry ass to work--because a burly black man at the bus stop was intimidating her.

Where did you find this scoop?

[GMax]

This seems to be a refrain of the whole "driving while black" argument. Taken to its PC extreme, we were frisking 80 year old grandmother in wheelchairs at the airport.

Crime statistics are facts. And part of any real conversation on race would include the "inconvenient truth" of a very disproportionate occurence that is well beyond mere statistical aberration or random error.

[clarice]

Jay Cost who thinks more highly of the speech than I did, has essentially the same criticism though worded far more elegantly than I put it:
[quote]Obama clearly understands Wright's philosophy - even if he never heard Wright say what has generated this firestorm. If nothing else, yesterday he contextualized Wright into the broader narrative of the American racial division. He would not have been able to do that so ably if he had only learned about this philosophy last week.

This philosophy is divisive, and Obama was aware of it even if he had not heard its most extreme articulations. At the same time, this philosophy is clearly not the core mission of Trinity United Church of Christ. Jeremiah Wright does not wake up every morning dedicated to dividing people. However, the antipode of this divisiveness is the core mission of Barack Obama. He wakes up every morning dedicated to uniting people. This is why Obama thinks Wright is not just wrong, but "profoundly" wrong. Wright's divisiveness constitutes a grievous mistake on what Obama takes to be the central question of American identity - are we one people or are we not?

Accordingly, this inclines me to ask what Obama did about this profound philosophical error. He has been a parishioner for twenty years, and he has been a strong believer in this philosophy of unity for at least four years, since his keynote address in 2004. I appreciate that he cannot walk away from Trinity because the church speaks to who he is. However, I must ask whether he worked to persuade Wright and the parishioners who applauded so jubilantly at his divisive words that they were wrong on a matter of existential importance. If he did, what was the consequence of those efforts? Did he succeed in bringing about change at Trinity?

These are reasonable questions to ask. They speak to the implicit warranty that a candidate offers when he or she runs for any office. Candidates make all kinds of promises about what they will do, and voters need to find some way to gauge whether they will keep their word. One way to do that is to look at what they have done. By contextualizing Jeremiah Wright in the broader dilemma of American divisiveness, Obama has identified his experience at Trinity as a small instance of a larger problem that plagues the country, the problem to which he intends to dedicate the 44th presidency. It is therefore reasonable to ask what he did - empowered as he was as a high-profile, long-standing parishioner - to change the viewpoint of Wright and Trinity, and whether those efforts were successful.

The essential problem of the speech is that it gives no answer to these queries. [/quote]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2008/03/on_obamas_speech.html>what was the question again?

[clarice]

It is in one of his two books,MayBee, and was quoted on one of the many JOM threads on Barack's speech.

[fdcol63]

OMG! If you thought Wright was bad, watch this guy slamming Obama and defending the Clintons:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU

According to him, Obama had a "trashy white woman momma" and Obama's a "long-legged freak"!

No wonder we've got race problems.

[clarice]

PPA poll on Penn.CLinton ahead by 26 points

Talk Left:"It is not surprising that Clinton leads Obama by 40 points among whites. What is surprising is PPP's finding that Clinton gets 27 percent of the African American vote."

[GMax]

Certain parishes in Louisiana, certain counties in Virginia, Kentucky, the border states GMax.

Lousiana seceeded from the Union. Ditto Virginia.

I grant that KY did not outlaw slavery during the war unlike both Maryland and Missouri who did. But Kentucky never had been a place of great numbers of slaves and the numbers declined dramatically from 1830 to 1860. Reports that I read say around 75% of those remaining either were freed or escaped to freedom during the conflict.

As I had already stated Maryland and Missouri specifically passed laws during the conflict to outlaw slavery.

To say the North, and especially Illinois where Lincoln was from were indifferent to slavery is historical revisionism. Illinois never had slavery so never had anything to abolish.

[clarice]

MayBee--here are the details and the quotes from Barak's book:

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/03/obama-throws-his-own-living-grannie.html>sharper than a serpent's toungur

[MayBee]

Thanks, clarice. I was in and out yesterday. I'll look for it. I certainly think he characterized her unfairly in his speech.
Safety experts say over and over again that too often, women are victimized out of politeness. We don't listen to the inner voice telling us there is a dangerous situation because we don't want to look mean or stupid or even bigoted.

[MayBee]

Ah! Cross posted. Thanks for finding it for me-- I'll go read.

[clarice]

The point is in his 1995 book he never said she expressed a general fear of Black men--but rather of one burly guy at the bus stop who'd been harrassing her.

She's old and sick and he apparently hasn't even made an effort to see her--though she took on the burden of raising and educating him when both parents deserted him. And now he makes up lies about her for political reasons and makes an utterly specious equivalency argument about a crazypants race baiting minister who he chose versus a perfectly reasonable fear by the woman who took care of him.

PHEH on this man.

[MayBee]

Thanks clarice.

Ug. I have read almost nothing dopier in my entire life's experience of reading dopey things.

[clarice]

I see a pattern in his self-promoting none too true doo doo.