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March 23, 2008

Comments

centralcal

I think Al Gore is insane. Seriously, his eyes are the windows of his soul - and they look very troubled to me.

clarice

To me, too, centralcal.

ben

PUK
"Glad you mentioned beach front properties,SCAM is offering $1 per square foot for prime locations.My advice is to take the money now,it will be down to 50 cents next year."

What do you think the impact is going to be on Florida swampland?

ben

"Time for some class actions.The human race versus Al Gore would be a start.As suggested above."

That's a great idea....if I had big bucks I would do it for the symbolic impact it would have. And if you pick the right jurisdiction you might even get a fair hearing.

Barry

"What do you think the impact is going to be on Florida swampland?"

Frow which of the climate change? Global warming or global cooling? And aren't they just the same, evidence of mans disregard for Mother Earth?

Rick Ballard

"What do you think the impact is going to be on Florida swampland?"

Are you buying or selling?

RichatUF

Rick-

I wonder why we haven't heard more about that Climate of Corruption these days?

HEH;)

I'm never going to catch up with all these threads...

ben

"Are you buying or selling?"

Well considering old Al was growing tobacco while he railed against it in Congress probably the best policy is to go the opposite way of what he says will happen.

M. Simon

I'm reposting this from another thread where it was OT:

Rick, Kim, et. al.

You might want to have a look at

Climate Audit - Unthread #32

Starting at comment #169 (I got lucky).

kim

Yes, MS, CO2 rising while temperatures are falling makes even the unscientific wonder. Then they wonder some more when asked to make sacrifices to encumber carbon.

icecap.us is an excellent aggregating site for skeptical articles. Joe d'Aleo, ex chief meteorologist for the Weather Channel, runs it.
=================================

M. Simon

Here is something from Instapunk's latest that I can definitely defend:

Black people are not the only U.S. immigrants who have ever had all the odds against them. And don't even dare to ask about the Jews black preachers hate so much. From the beginning and to this very day, they have prevailed against reverse Affirmative Action in all the top schools that granted entrance to the corridors of power. But you must know this. Why do all the politically correct leading lights hate them as much as the Palestinians do? Even though blacks owe their civil rights victories more to the Jews than to any other demographic or political group you can name.

Instapunk

I have my Ear to the ground in the Jewish community: if The Big O is nominated he is not going to get their votes (excepting the usual die hards). My 88 yo yellow dog Democrat mom will write in the RW - voting McCain is a bridge too far for her.

M. Simon

slag,

Here is one for you:

Obama's Communist mentor Frank Marshall Davis.

kim

Shall we tell Slag about Meeks? Or ask him?
============================

glasater

Kim--here is another link that you may or may not have hooked into. Britt Hume mentioned Jennifer Marohasy from "down under" land. She has some interesting things to say on climate.

Boy did you ever give slag heck earlier on this thread. You Rock!

kim

Thanks. That silly biotch.

Yes, Marohasy's interview is getting around. I just love it when memes like this one spread. This is easily understood by everyone.
=======================

glasater

Isn't there something about keeping messages at the fourth grade intelligence level?

Or maybe we've graduated to the fifth:-)

Syl

While I agree with the concept in the Marohasy interview, I disagree with the tone.

If we want to spread the word, then let's spread the scientific word, ie, sun cycle stuff, lateness of Cycle 24, length of cycle is more important than amplitude, sunspots, cosmic rays, lack of negative feedback in all GCMs, coming cooling period, charts, sites, articles, etc., rather than polemic.

We can share the giggles among ourselves 'til the time comes (soon) when we can pounce with shadenfreude on all our AGW proponent neighbors. :)

kim

Whoa, you are up to date, Syl.
==================

PeterUK

"What do you think the impact is going to be on Florida swampland"

Well Bill says he has a soft spot for Hillary.

PeterUK

"Global warming or global cooling? And aren't they just the same,"

That is up there with Monty Python's theory on dinosaurs

"evidence of mans disregard for Mother Earth?"

Well,leaving aside the Earth ain't yo momma,merely a piece of spacial detritus, would you explain how the human race is causing both warming and cooling at the same time,and how?
Answers on a bankers draft, Cheque,money order or fifty dollar bill to SCAM Environment.Please us one side only,you can use more than one sheet.

PeterUK

A simple way to disseminate the message is on the casual and personal level.When you meet a neighbour freezing in the street say,"Where's this Global Warming then",or "We seem to be getting the wrong sort of Global warming".
Surprising how many people have noticed.
Any dialogue of the type which started the French Revolution that can be applied th GW is useful.
"The IPCC flies to Bali whilst our children freeze" is nice.
"My mother can't afford to run the central heating but Fat Al runs his limo on polar bear oil".
My favourite is "2008 Frozen to Death".

kim

Speaking of schadenfreode, isn't gavin a hoot? The desperation of the warmistas is evidence of their cognitive dissonance. Mahorasey's blog has the latest. Apparently she's been a skeptic of one sort or another for 20 years.
====================================

kim

My favourite was from about six months ago when I started my latest tear about global cooling, I announced to my neighbor that the globe was cooling, and she came back without missing a beat with "No doubt".
=======================

Lisa

What if Obama does get elected? Seriously. What if McCain does something really bizarre and implodes (that is pretty much how Obama got his senate seat - his opposition self-immolated).

Will white people be running through the streets, shrieking in terror?

Interesting.

boris

Before the Wright revelations Obama looked like a reasonable guy. Now, however, the shared reality necessary for reasonable people to agree on anything seems remote.

PeterUK

Kim,
There is no doubt that AGW,GW Gorephilia was and is a huge scam. This was planned like any other leftist assault,right down to the language.
Thanks Al.

ben

"Well Bill says he has a soft spot for Hillary."

HEH

"Will white people be running through the streets, shrieking in terror?"

I wouldn't put that past myself, no.

kim

Yes, Peter, I ran across that link several weeks ago, to my horror. But that is still just from a couple of years ago.

The origins of this 'madness of crowds' is going to keep sociologists of science busy for generations. Fundamentally, I think it most stemmed from a good intention of James Hansen, that is to save the world. But we know that the road to Hell, as well as to Paradise, is paved with good intentions. James Hansen has simply lost his way, and is now actively damaging the world and the people in it.

There is no question that it is important to keep the world as clean as possible, balanced against the needs of the creatures encaged. But CO2 probably has a minimal effect on climate. The ingrained belief that it is much greater, engrained foremost if not first in Hansen, and shortly thereafter taken up by Gore, both encouraged by a huge chorus of environmentalists, has created this massive popular delusion.

It's just wrong, however, and we are gradually figuring it out. I'm worried that science, and also environmentalism will take huge hits to their credibility as a consequence of this initially inadvertent hoax.

Misunderstanding of the effects of clouds modifying the influence of the sun has led to this great error in science.

I think I've never heard so loud
The quiet message in a cloud.
======================

fdcol63

Indeed, AGW is a liberal-manufactured and hyped fraud, being pushed by those who want to see a global government run by an entity like the UN.

What better way to do this than to create a global panic concerning an issue that requires a governing authority with powers greater than those held by nation-states?

Syl

Kim

Gavin is becoming quite incoherent in his remarks in other people's comments. Quite.

But, believe me, what hit me so strongly this weekend was the concept that life on earth REQUIRES CARBON.

And what life has done over millions of millenia is remove carbon from the atmosphere and ocean and hide it in deposits that are now far far underground. Life itself is depleting the carbon.

WE, the current people, are PUTTING THE CARBON BACK where it belongs--into the atmosphere and oceans.

WE are saving the planet by doing so!

Other Tom

A gem from Mickey Kaus:

"The Nightmare of Illumination: Jon Alter writes of his candidate (Obama) that '[even] if his legislative agenda founders, he might be able to help the nation raise its sights ...'

"'[P]residents must do more than rally the country enough to win backing in polls for a course of action. That's relatively easy. The hard part is using the bully pulpit to instruct and illuminate and rearrange our mental furniture. Every great president has been a captivating teacher. By talking honestly and intelligently about a subject that most Americans would rather ignore, Obama offered a preview of how he would perform as educator-in-chief. ... Barack Obama knows how to think big, elevate the debate and transport the public to a new place.'

"Hmmm. After last Tuesday, I'm not sure I want to be instructed and elevated any more by Prof. Obama. I'd kind of like to rearrange HIS mental furniture on welfare and affirmative action, where his vagueness suggests incoherence more than brilliance. Alter holds out the prospect that an Obama Presidency will not be four hears of merely winning 'backing in polls for a course of action'--oh no, that's easy!-- but ... well, four years of insufferable pedagogic condescension.

"And here I thought Hillary was the self-righteous scold. Obama lectures even when he's the one who's been called into the principal's office. Alter has presented the most compelling case for Al Gore I've read..."

kim

Yes, Syl, and hydrocarbons are only a small part of it. Carbonates, also probably produced by life have sequestered far more carbon than the critters making hydrocarbons.

I've thought for awhile that life, by its action to virtually irreversibly sequester carbon, has kept us on the thin edge of glaciation for the last many millions of years. But is that exaggerating carbon's role in temperature? I don't know.

There is a fella, whose name escapes me now, whose thesis is that the development of agriculture and animal culture has kept us from already descending into an ice age. I don't think it is a broadly accepted thesis, but for sure, we teeter far more precariously on the brink of another ice age, than on the edge of the earth cooking all of its inhabitants.
==============================

clarice

Well if we're heading into another ice age you know who has enough blubber to make it safely from SUV to private jet.

fdcol63

What really confuses me is that many of the people pushing the concept of AGW are the same people who push Darwin and "natural selection".

They apparently don't see the irony:

Either Man will adapt to his changing environment, or he'll become extinct.

The further irony is that many of the cranks in hysteria over AGW actually believe that Mother Gaia would be better off without "human infestation". LOL

Syl

kim

I don't see how another ice age can be avoided. The greenhouse effect isn't nearly enough to counter the orbital variations and cycles.

However, if we're rich enough and technologically advanced enough, many can survive it.

But many plants and animals will die out. Sorry lefties, life is not forever...and that includes snail darters.

What really soured me on the whole environmental ethos was learning that Yellowstone is a super volcano and its 40,000 years overdue in a 600,000 year cycle.

Life as we know it is all going to go away anyway and there's nothing we can do about it.


kim

It is indeed fortunate, Syl, that humans are among the most adaptable of species.

Nothing to the cockroach, apparently. Or trilobite.
===============================

M. Simon

Kim,

Pielke? Father and son.

kim

Yes, fdcol63, that is the most disturbing bit about the ethics of so many of those avid for carbon encumbrances. They, the 'typical' ones, are usually urban elite who mistakenly believe, in their precious little bubbles, that they can survive the holocaust of long-term cooling.

What small effect on temperature that CO2 has, and what large effect as a fertilizer, will keep millions of people from starving and freezing if we are headed into long term cooling, but only if we don't encumber it. The poor and powerless(intended) will suffer most greatly, but it will effect us all.

Every time Gore opens his fattened mouth, somewhere something sentient freezes. Not good karma, me boy.
==================================

kim

Roger that, MS, two of my heroes. Senior is on a black carbon tear recently. Check out soot.
===========================

ben

"What really soured me on the whole environmental ethos was learning that Yellowstone is a super volcano and its 40,000 years overdue in a 600,000 year cycle.

Life as we know it is all going to go away anyway and there's nothing we can do about it."

This is true but if we can keep Obama or Hillary out of the Presidency it might keep life as we know it for at least 4 or 8 years, (or 30 depending on SCOTUS retirements), so I can't help but being focused on the extreme short term.

fdcol63

Eventually, we're all going to discover that things like Milankovitch Cycles (Orbital Eccentricity, Earth's Axial Tilt, and Precession [wobble]), combined with other solar and planetary activity, have greater influence on our climate than anything anthropogenically induced.

http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/geo/egeo/flash/18_2.swf

The keyword is CYCLE.

M. Simon

Kim,

My friends (and wife) all call me Simon. In fact most of the male members of my family have always been called Simon.

In high school when my brother and I were together it was Big Simon and Little Simon. Little Simon was a shrimp at 6 ft. :-)

So you can refer to me as Simon. Or MS if there is a "real" Simon on the thread.

But I'm not fussy about it. What ever suits you.

kim

Hiya Simon. I've known you for awhile. Your creativity about drugs and fusion are inspiring.
========================

GMax

Kim

You do know that the roots of this whole debacle trace back to Maggie Thatcher and her need to bash the extraction industries unions to try to wrest control of the Brit economy back?

The greenies and then the progs simply latched onto this as a reason to stop economic development. No pause even for the fact that one of the largest "greenhouse gases" was water vapor.

Soylent Red

Slightly tangential to topic, but involving former Vice President Pork Chop, is this.

Please let this man run for something again.

PeterUK

If anyone thinks that climatist have hijacked the thread,it should be born in mind that Fat Al is a Democrat as are Obama and Hillary Hillary "anti-christ" Clinton.
Democrats,as good socialists equate to carbon poverty for all.This would bring a disaster for industry and food production.The only way to survive will be to eat leftists,or Soylent Blue as it is known.

Soylent Red

You've got to tell people...Soylent Blue is liberals!

And pretty tasty on crackers too!

Syl

LOL!

Other Tom

I would never want to be a preening, self-righeous prig, of course, but allow me to be so immodest as to announce that I have taken this pledge: I vow that every year for the remainder of my life, my carbon footprint will be smaller than that of Al Gore. What more could ever be expected of a responsible citizen?

I'll go a bit further: all those who don't join me in making this pledge are morally bankrupt.

PeterUK

The Soylent Blue made from Al Gore contains too much saturated fat,like goose pate.

Soylent Red

Back on topic...

Interesting take on carbon taxation from the most unlikely of sources: NYT Op-Ed page.

Basically makes the case that carbon taxation revenue should go back to companies as a subsidy for cleaner emissions practices. Rather than back into the general fund, or Al Gore's doughnut fund.

Here.

PeterUK

"I vow that every year for the remainder of my life, my carbon footprint will be smaller than that of Al Gore."

A most commendable proposal,I will sign up to that.Nor will I ever harm a 1000 pound polar bear should I ever meet one.

fdcol63

The scary thing is the extent to which the AGW movement has become a complete industry of its own AND a quasi-religion.

PeterUK

Soylent,
Something similar to that is being done here.Carbon credits were allocated to the power utilities,free.The utilities immediately charged to customers for them.

Soylent Red

Off topic again...

More Kilkenny Cat antics. Video footage emerges depicting Hillarity's tenuous grasp on truth.

Serpentine Hillary! Serpentine!

Soylent Red

Nor will I ever harm a 1000 pound polar bear should I ever meet one.

I'll go one further. When confronted by a 1000 lb. polar bear, I will perhaps provide him with a meal.

Something similar to that is being done here.

I found it interesting because the underlying premise of the piece is that taxing carbon footprints doesn't decrease emissions.

So it's a typical liberal solution to a problem: extract money for a solution that never materializes. The fix for that? Extract more money!

clarice

Whenever she opens her mouth a lie comes out. Remember her fanciful tale about Chelsea jogging near the Twin Towers on 9/11? The Clintons are truly sociopathic liars,

PeterUK

"I'll go one further. When confronted by a 1000 lb. polar bear, I will perhaps provide him with a meal."

I'm only sorry I cannot match your selfless altruism.You have my utmost admiration,I hope, that if I do meet one, you will be with me.


The whole scam of carbon credits is brilliant,rationing and charging for something which doesn't exist,and government does not own.Of course the coming black market is a wonderful business opportunity for concerns like family businesses

M. Simon

Kim,

Honored.

I always know it is the real you by the:

======================

I used to do that a lot as a topic separator in comments when I spent a lot of time on usenet.

These days I'm more economical:

==

I always like your comments. Mostly short. Always pithy. A man after my own heart.

GMax

Ramussen today on the effects of the Dem mud wrestle:

The division in the Democratic Party is highlighted by the fact that just 71% of Democratic Primary voters now say they will vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election campaign. If Barack Obama is nominated, 64% of Democratic Primary voters are ready to vote for him. The way in which the Democratic Nomination is resolved will ultimately determine whether the nominee will enjoy stronger support from the party’s base.

Soylent Red

you will be with me

Better yet, let's hope Pork Chop Al is with us. Should keep the bear busy for months...

GMax

OT

I see the Detroit Free Press is calling for Kwame Kilpatrick to resign today. Its online and has a comments section. You want to see how this is playing in those crucial suburbs of Macomb and Oakland counties? Well here is one commenter there and there are others. Its got to be a nightmare for the Democrat Governor who does have the power to remove local officials but does not want to piss off blacks as a constituency.

I find it very hard to believe that the mayor keeps blaming the media and non-Detroiters for his troubles. It's not like the news agencies went to him and said "here you go Mr Mayor - we got Beatty all liquored up and she's waiting for you in your hotel room." How can he or anyone else believe he's been unjustly crucified? I guess it's because his team is saying the introduction of the text messages were illegal. Who cares how they were first introduced to the public. Fact is he was having an affair, fired some folks for investigating wrong doing, and tried to cover it all up for a mere drop in the bucket of 8.4 million. And last, I hear all the time that this is a Detroit thing and if you live in the suburbs - mind your own business. Up until recently, I worked in the city of Detroit and paid several thousands of dollars in Detroit income taxes. So maybe I don't have the write to vote, but my hard earned money helped pay for his wrong doings.
3/25/2008 11:39:00 AM

GMax

Mess with the staff and piss off some voters. Mess with their pocketbooks and piss most of them off. And then tell the suburbanites, many of whom must pay a Detroit income tax, to butt out honkie. I cant imagine elected Democrats sleeping well, this happening just as we are having our dialogue on race. Detroiters have been having a monologue on race for quite awhile now. Lets see if I am right about this being last straw.

Jane

Can I interrupt?

Do you guys have a working understanding of why the democrats would be supporting FARC over the elected government in Columbia. The WSJ piece under my name talks about a congressperson in an adjacent district to me, so I'm trying to figure out why he would be doing this:

The conclusion from the WSJ:

"We think the documents reveal something else entirely: Some Democrats oppose the Colombia trade deal because they sympathize more with FARC's terrorists than with a U.S. antiterror ally."

My question: What's the motive?

hit and run

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VK1VO84&show_article=1”>Confirmed: global warming --> carp

RENO, Nev. (AP) - A new study predicts water circulation in Lake Tahoe is being dramatically altered by global warming, threatening the lake's delicate ecosystem and famed clear waters.


The University of California, Davis study said one likely consequence is warmer lake temperatures that will mean fewer cold-water native fish and more invasive species—like carp, large-mouth bass and bluegill.

Sequester carbon...for the cold water native fish!

Won't somebody think of the cold water native fish!!!

Soylent Red

Jane:

I don' know but I can speculate...

FARC was originally a Marxist guerrilla group, before devolving into narco-terrorists. But they still maintain the Marxist background and pose a threat to Uribe's government.

Chavez is a socialist, and supports FARC's moves to oust Uribe on the common ground of Marxism. Chavez doesn't really care that FARC is socialist in name only, only that the outcome of Uribe being overthrown by FARC is that he (Chavez) will have greater influence in Colombia, and could potentially emplace a puppet socialist government (a la Bolivia).

Uribe is supported by President Bush. Chavez is opposed by President Bush.

And thus the circle is complete.

GMax

BDS Jane, plus an affinity for socialists.

Jane

Do we really have a bunch of marxists in Congress? Where have I been?

I sent an email to McGovern. Not that I expect an honest answer.

PeterUK

"hope Pork Chop Al is with us. Should keep the bear busy for months..."

A Fat Al isn't just for Christmas,with careful portioning, it will keep you through hibernation.

Soylent Red

Do we really have a bunch of marxists in Congress?

It's worse than that Jane.

Forget their politics (which is simply a front to gain legitimacy). FARC is fundamentally an international crime syndicate. Guns, drugs, human slaves, support to AQ and MS-13...every sort of vile and corrupt activity you can think of.

IOW, truly evil people. Make sure Sen. McGovern is aware of who he wants to dialogue with.

Soylent Red

A Fat Al isn't just for Christmas,with careful portioning, it will keep you through hibernation.

All I ask is that the bear eat him head first.

fdcol63

Do we really have a bunch of marxists in Congress?

Listen to Obama's own voice narrating his "Dreams From My Father" audio book, and you'll have your answer:

Yes.

PeterUK

Jane,
Business?

PeterUK

"All I ask is that the bear eat him head first"

Too fatty,even polar bears have to consider their diet.

Jane

Make sure Sen. McGovern is aware of who he wants to dialogue with.

I wonder how I do that. I could get really really informed on the issue, blog on it, get linked to Instapundit, and bring the issue to light.

Or in typical fashion I could wait for TM to do it and learn from the rest of you.

GMax

Found this on the coming attractions from the IPCC:

Having failed to convince the world that human-caused warming of the atmosphere is dangerous, IPCC has been casting around for new causes to espouse. A Royal Society of London report in 2005 on “Ocean acidification due to increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide” has proved to be good feedstock, because of its claim that the average pH of the oceans will fall by 0.5 units by 2100 if global emissions keep rising at their current rate. That this estimate is known to be exaggerated by a factor of about 3 has not prevented the IPCC and others from recently publicizing the ocean acidification legend. Clearly, they now seek to move the epicentre of the climate scare from the atmosphere, which stubbornly refuses to warm, to the ocean, whose depths doubtless still contain many scientific surprises.

The roughly 50 computer experts and scientists who form the core advisory group for the IPCC’s stance must have realized for several years now that the game was up. There is indeed copious evidence that climate is changing, as it always has; and that natural biological and physico-chemical systems - again as always - are changing in response. But as to human causation – the evidential cupboard is bare.

For the last three years, satellite-measured average global temperature has been declining. Given the occurrence also of record low winter temperatures and massive snowfalls across both hemispheres this year, IPCC members have now entered panic mode, the whites of their eyes being clearly visible as they seek to defend their now unsustainable hypothesis of dangerous, human-caused global warming.

To try to top “The Ring of the Niebelung”, composers after Wagner abandoned classical key structures and turned to the apparent aural chaos of atonalism. Similarly, to pursue the higher cause of saving the planet, the IPCC has now largely abandoned classical (empirical) science and adopted the sophistry of deterministic computer modelling. The result is neither melodious nor meaningful, let alone useful for sensible environmental planning. The time has surely arrived for the New Zealand government to commission an independent reassessment of the UN’s hysterical global warming scare.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Dr. Bob Carter is a Research Professor at James Cook University, Queensland, Australia, who studies ancient environments and climate, and whose website is at http://members.iinet.net.au/~glrmc/new_page_1.htm

Jane

No one can say I don't know how to kill a thread!!

fdcol63

The IPCC and computer climate modelling:

G I G O.

Sue

Haven't you guys heard? Soot is the cause of global warming. Black Coal.

PeterUK

"Soot is the cause of global warming"

Soot of the Antarctic?


Does the higher acid level in the sea mean the bottom will fall out of Ted Kennedy's boat? Or is that vice versa?

Ann

Jane, Gateway has more information on FARC with links.

Busted!... Democratic Point Man on Colombia Caught Dealing With FARC

Soylent Red

Black Coal.

I thought only white things were the cause of problems.

And uh, Sue, please... "Coal of Color" is the preferred nomenclature.

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