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March 18, 2008

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capitano

Obama's Modified Limited Hangout Route version 2.0 -- for the benefit of wavering white supporters, here's a bone for you:

For the African-American community,...it means taking full responsibility for own lives....

Can't wait to see version 3.0!

Michael Erwine

America will fly to Paradise on the wings of Barack!

takenaway

One thing Obama taught me today...

Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect

The question should be----What does Obama say when he is alone with the Rev. Wright or say to the other members of his congregation or how about conversations with the wife ---specifically with respect to rich white folk??Saying what people want to hear when speaking to them is not noble its just more say old same old.

Jane

WOW. Go ABC

tyree

Good speech, but considering that he is running for President, it might have been a good idea to mention Abraham Lincoln (R). Considering his problems supporting the US military, he might have picked up some points had he mentioned that all the protests and petitions against slavery didn't end it, the Army and Navy did. He also might have mentioned that the US military integrated sooner than most of America. Also missing was the first civil rights bill, introduced by a former general Dwight D. Eisenhower (R) who was of German descent but who considered himself an American first. Of course, that isn't what he wanted to talk about.

TexasToast

Therefore the association tells us something about Obama, as boris points out. So denunciations and repudiations aside, to ask Obama why he chose this friend - and stuck with him all these years - is perfectly valid.

Are you folks telling me that you have no racist friends? Do you refuse to associate with those who you disagree with? Are you removing them from your life at the first opportunity? Are you "rejecting and denouncing" them?

Or do you choose to celebrate the good, recognize the not so good, and engage your friends in order to achieve something better?

Blessed is the man
who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
or stand in the way of sinners
or sit in the seat of mockers.

Psalm 1.1

So said the Pharisees.

Jesus’ response?

A father who never gave up on his prodigal son.

Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

A shepherd who never abandoned his lost sheep.

How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

A woman who never lost hope of finding her missing coin

Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin which I had lost.' Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.

Perhaps the views expressed by the Reverend make him a lost coin?

Extraneus

I imagine a lot less of Rev. Wright's sort of preaching went on this past Sunday than usual -- and if any still did, more furtive eyes than usual looked around for cell-phone cameras.

If he goes down over this, there could be a real silver lining here, and not just for race relations.

Ranger

Interesting. Now ABC is playing a completely different soundbite in their bottom of the hour news brief. Maybe someone in their editorial staff realized the implications of that quote. Would love to be a fly on the wall in that office as they debate which soundbite to use.

Appalled Moderate

Ranger calls the abc news stance correctly. Header on the website notes that Obama is "Parsing Wright from Wrong"

Asinistra

Time to throw a little light on the vermin...
"I read the various posts here on "The Corner," mostly pretty ho-hum or critical about Obama's speech. Then I figured I'd better read the text (I tried to find a video of it, but couldn't). I've just finished. Has any other major American politician ever made a speech on race that comes even close to this one? As far as I'm concerned, it is just plain flat out brilliant—rhetorically, but also in capturing a lot of nuance about race in America. It is so far above the standard we're used to from our pols.... But you know me. Starry-eyed Obama groupie."
Charles Murray
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjI3MWMyOGFkNmQ2MGFjNzRhYzYwMGVhZWJhMjcyOGM

takenaway

TT---what scriptures quote Jesus trying to foment hate for others?

GMax

He did not have much choice. Not that many folks believed his " I sat there but didn't inhale" explanations. And he is trying to get nominated by progs, for christ sake. Its dangerous to tell them stuff that does not fit the layers and layers of dogma.

ABC has been doing Clinton's bidding on this from the start. If they keep it up, not even white guilt speech from the great one are going to give him a pass on this. He must be destroyed or else its a problem for Hill getting to 50% + 1. He will be destroyed.

Like it or lump it progs. She is your gal.

Sue

Are you folks telling me that you have no racist friends? Do you refuse to associate with those who you disagree with? Are you removing them from your life at the first opportunity? Are you "rejecting and denouncing" them?

They aren't my spiritual advisers. They aren't my mentors. They aren't on my campaign staff, or rather weren't on my campaign staff until it became expedient to drop them. They aren't spreading their message to thousands week in and week out...

You want me to go on? Or can you really not see the difference in friend and spiritual adviser? Mentor? Someone he cares about and listens to as much or more than his own flesh and blood?

And to answer your question about racist friends, if I have any they know enough about me to keep their opinions to themselves.

tyree

Also missing from the speech was any mention of the muslim international slave trade and all the guilt that the muslim community should feel from profiting from it. He could have worked in a "shores of Tripoli" reference about the US standing up to muslim slave traders in North Africa, but again, that isn't what he wants to talk about.

Porchlight

Are you folks telling me that you have no racist friends? Do you refuse to associate with those who you disagree with? Are you removing them from your life at the first opportunity? Are you "rejecting and denouncing" them?

TT, everyone has friends with whom they do not always agree. However, if I had such overtly racist friends, I would not:

1) sit in their church every Sunday listening to them preach for 15-20 years
2) bring my kids to listen to the above
3) have them baptize me and my children
4) have them officiate at my wedding
5) consult them on spiritual matters, as well as when I am making career moves
6) use a phrase from their sermon as the title of my book
7) put them on my religious outreach committee when I run for President

Etc.

Come on. This is not that hard.

capitano

Here's an interesting article via Powerline by a young Chicago reporter who has some insight on how Obama enjoyed unusual success in the Illinois legislature after six years of treading water. Obama got his break when Democrats took over the both legislative houses and the governorship:

The white, race-baiting, hard-right Republican Illinois Senate Majority Leader James "Pate" Philip was replaced by Emil Jones Jr., a gravel-voiced, dark-skinned African-American known for chain-smoking cigarettes on the Senate floor.

Jones had served in the Illinois Legislature for three decades. He represented a district on the Chicago South Side not far from Obama's. He became Obama's ­kingmaker.

Several months before Obama announced his U.S. Senate bid, Jones called his old friend Cliff Kelley, a former Chicago alderman who now hosts the city's most popular black call-in radio ­program.

I called Kelley last week and he recollected the private conversation as follows:

"He said, 'Cliff, I'm gonna make me a U.S. Senator.'"

"Oh, you are? Who might that be?"

"Barack Obama."

Jones appointed Obama sponsor of virtually every high-profile piece of legislation, angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills.

"I took all the beatings and insults and endured all the racist comments over the years from nasty Republican committee chairmen," State Senator Rickey Hendon, the original sponsor of landmark racial profiling and videotaped confession legislation yanked away by Jones and given to Obama, complained to me at the time. "Barack didn't have to endure any of it, yet, in the end, he got all the credit.

"I don't consider it bill jacking," Hendon told me. "But no one wants to carry the ball 99 yards all the way to the one-yard line, and then give it to the halfback who gets all the credit and the stats in the record book."

During his seventh and final year in the state Senate, Obama's stats soared. He sponsored a whopping 26 bills passed into law — including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked as inexperienced.

It was a stunning achievement that started him on the path of national politics — and he couldn't have done it without Jones.

GMax

And now a dose of reality from the Pittsburgh Gazette:

Sen. Clinton now leads Sen. Obama, 53 to 41 percent among likely primary voters, the poll said. This compares to a 49 to 43 percent Sen. Clinton lead in a Feb. 27 poll. In that survey, the momentum was with Sen. Obama, who had narrowed a 52 to 36 percent gap from a Feb. 14 poll.

Sue

This is what is so frustrating. It isn't just the words he preached. It is the front page of their damned website. Click on about us. See what their goals are. Africa is the mother country? Black values? And he doesn't mean what I thought black values would mean. I'm told they have removed that link, but I haven't gone back to see for myself. It isn't just a few words of anger. It is the church Obama chose to associate with for 20 years.

GMax

The deomographic breakdowns in the poll are even worse for Obama. The only group he is doing better with than previously, is blacks. So maybe racist blacks have flocked to his side.

He retains a slim lead among college educated likely voters but loses both men ( narrowly ) and women.

And this speech addresses which group that he needs to win back?

PeterUK

Dum-dum-dum-dumdy-doo-wah
Ooh-yay-yay-yay-yeah
Oh-oh-oh-oh-wah
Only the guilty

Only the guilty (dum-dum-dum-dumdy-doo-wah)
Know the way I feel tonight (ooh-yay-yay-yay-yeah)
Only the guilty (dum-dum-dum-dumdy-doo-wah)
Know this feelin aint right (dum-dum-dum-dumdy-doo-wah)

There goes my Pastor
There goes my heart
They're gone forever
So far apart

But only the guilty
Know why
I cry
Only the guilty

Rick Ballard

Porchlight,

How in the world will we ever get beyond this [insert dystopic view here] if you persist in your hardheaded trust in your lying eyes? If you really feel you must look at something, then why not gaze in wonder at He who will lead us to [insert your fantasy here]?

boris

Roy Obamason

GMax

Anybody else see some of those videos with everyone wearing costumes? Is it church or is it a thespian society? I had not seem so many dashikis since I watched an Out of Africa rerun. It sure looked pretty silly to me anyway.

Jane

I bet most people here don't have racist friends whose job is trafficking in racism; and that seems to be Wright's mission.

My issue with the whole mess is the victimology. I hate that stuff. We've been harmed so you have to atone

I really really really hate that stuff.
Reverend Wright encourages victimology. Obama echoed that sentiment in his speech. Yuck!

Appalled Moderate

GMax:

Speech plays well with college educated voters and white liberals. Not hard to figure. And it is a reminder of what people like about Obama.

Everyone:

Question for all-- Why is it so important Obama not only denounce the ideas he dislikes, but cast his pastor aside like trash?

John McTruth

Wow...only days ago Obama stated that he NEVER heard Wright make inflammatory comments in church. Today, in his speech, he confesses that he did in fact hear his pastor make "controversial remarks" while he sat in church but that he did not agree with him. Appears like Mr. O got caught in a lie to the American people! Likely not the last.

John McTruth

Wow...only days ago Obama stated that he NEVER heard Wright make inflammatory comments in church. Today, in his speech, he confesses that he did in fact hear his pastor make "controversial remarks" while he sat in church but that he did not agree with him. Appears like Mr. O got caught in a lie to the American people! Likely not the last.

boris

The speech was soothing enough but it tries to deflect from the issue. Wright is not a symptom like an uncle's or grandmother's prejudice. Wright is more than divisive, those blame shifted rationalizations impair more than race relations, they impair success of their adherants and followers.

clarice

AM--All hehad to do to regain some respect from me was to acknowledge he'd misspoken, that he did hear that stuff, did know about it, erred in not speaking out forecefully against it and, instead, supported it.

That was for me the only honest way out and he didn't take it.
Punk street organizer on the make.

clarice

***forcefully**

Porchlight

Rick,

All I know is that if we don't get beyond [insert dystopic view here], it will most assuredly be spun as the GOP's fault. This is the beauty of Obama as the nominee - even if Republicans win, they lose, because they'll be blamed for the failure of [insert utopian fantasy here] to materialize.

PeterUK

Obama may be a brilliant speaker,but he is certainly a mediocre thinker.

"the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family."

It is alright pandering to social groups but a woman trying to up her income 10-20 k is not the same as an unemployed man or a poor immigrant.Nor do the two latter have anything in common with the woman,they are at the opposite end of the spectrum.
The poor lamb just didn't read his Marx closely enough.

Jane

AM,

The issue is whether you can believe him. I don't.

I actually like that he didn't trash his pastor. And if he had called upon his pastor to stop encouraging the flock to consider themselves the victims of Whitey I might have given him some kudos.

But he didn't. So I don't believe that he's actually opposed to what Wright says.

takenaway

Or do you choose to celebrate the good, recognize the not so good, and engage your friends in order to achieve something better?

TT- So you think Obama has actually achieved an improvement in the good Pastor Wrights ideas over the last 20 years, not the other way around? Well if this the kind of improvement that Obama has planned for Amerikka, we should all be very afraid.

MlR

"remarks that could have been considered controversial..."

Oooooooooooooooooooooh, big man, big man.

In a perfect world this person would be laughed off the podium. A racial healer who actively sought out a racist church. And then has the gall to lecture other people.

MlR

"The issue is whether you can believe him. I don't."

If you accept the fact that we're now quibbling over 'details' of visits.

The entire church is as much the issue as the sermons.

boris

not only denounce the ideas he dislikes

How is comparison of Wright to grandma a denunciation? Sounded more like a request for understanding and tolerance for views. Ignore them and their "divisiveness" is not a problem because we are no longer "offended" by them. It is up to us to nullify the divisiveness by not letting ourselves be divided.

Frak that! Being offended at that drek might be a problem for blacks, but the ideology absolutely is holding many of them back.

LogicalSC

Appalled Moderate:
"Question for all-- Why is it so important Obama not only denounce the ideas he dislikes, but cast his pastor aside like trash?"

Why are you so caught up in a politician trying to cover his arse with some speech rather than looking at this prior actions to determine exactly what type candidate and person he is?

Looking at :
- comments of Obama wife and her dislike of America and men.
- raising his children and having them baptized into this ideolgy and donating close to 20K for its spread.
- choice of foreign policy advisors who advocate use of the US military to force Israeli acceptance of a Palistinian state.
- friendships with known Weatherman terrorists.

tell me that Obama is a typical America-hating, anti-semetic, racist leftist in a shiny new package.

But you are persuaded to overlook 20 years of actions and associations because of a flowery speech written by Axelrod and his handlers. Please!

Ranger

Question for all-- Why is it so important Obama not only denounce the ideas he dislikes, but cast his pastor aside like trash?

Posted by: Appalled Moderate | March 18, 2008 at 02:59 PM

I don't know. Maybe for the same reason it was so important that Robert Byrd denounce the Klan and cast it asside like trash?

Or is the Klan now just a manifestation of the frustraitions of poor whites after the Civil War, an organization we may not agree with, but who's outlook we must understand?

And if you think that comparison with the Klan is over the top, remember the Rev. Wright has at least twice (that we know of) from the pulpit accused the US Goverment of a deliberate campaign of genocide against African Americans, once through deliberately developing the AIDS virus and once through the application of the criminal justice and education system.

Cindy martin

Like John Kerry who ran as a hero on his Vietnman experience, and that heroism was found to be in question, so too, Obama runs as a candidate that unites and transcends race while attending a church and praising a mentor that preaches racial hatred and division.

Chickens are coming home......to roost.

Rickter

"Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism." ---- Wow, that's a poke in the eye!

Jane

OT

Oh dear, Joe and Val are hanging with Hill in Philly.

Pix at link under my name.

takenaway

Yes let's talk about the members of Pastor Wrights church, I read somewhere that he has 8000 in the congregation? That's alot of hate believin' black folks, that I am sure the Obama's socialized with on many occasions, everyone of them in the pews had heard this kind of spewing many times before and worse they believed it. There was no shock on a single face, how many in the congregation did Mr Obama (demoted now from Saint) manage to lead to the white light of unity? Obviously his genteel views did not sway a single congregant---yet he will unite us all, I think not, maybe he should practice on his own church and friends for a few years, then when he has more experience, we'll talk about the presidency.

bgates

Has anybody in the history of politics ever taken shots at his own grandmother in a speech? A speech about reconciliation?

anduril

Steve Sailer has a highly relevant new article up, Is Brown the New Black? Sailer notes that "The relationship between blacks and Latinos will become increasingly central to American life, but it’s a murky phenomenon, poorly understood by the white-dominated press." Then he goes about trying to shed some light on this murky phenomenon.

If this article were less relevant I might be tempted to quote it extensively. As it is, you'll have to follow the link if you want to educate yourself on a topic that could be central to Campaign 2008.

GMax

well Juan Williams was just on with Shep. He basically said this. Barack was in a box, if he trashed Wright he lost support especially among Blacks. But he put himself in another box. He basically has made himself the black candidate, instead of the guy who transcends race.

He further said, this will not help him with older white voters, hispanics and jews. All of whom he needs more of not less.

So if you want to give a speech to your campaign staff, you dont know television. As AM agrees this appealed to blacks and college educated liberals who for the most part were already Obama supporters.

Can we now have another helping of Rezko?

Ralph Phelan

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community

I don't want you to disown him, just call bullshit on his claim that the US government is spreading AIDS.

Or rather, I want you to have publicly disagreed with him about it at some time in the past, before it became a political problem for you. It's too late now.

The Ace

I didn't hear him blame anyone. He repudiated the blame game and suggested we must get past the habit of blame.

You're either illiterate or deaf.

Legalized discrimination - where blacks were prevented, often through violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force, or fire departments – meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today’s urban and rural communities.

But don't worry, you "didn't hear" it.
And that's all that counts.

Please note: the above statement from Obama is unadulterated baloney.

The Ace



Sorry about the ital!

John Rawlings

Barack is right. Our politics have become too much about distractions. Thanks to the opinion leaders, FOX and CNN.

Pastor Wright said some nasty things but he is no danger to Chicago let alone Illinois or the USA.

Barack did well in denouncing the speech but not the person!

I hope this author runs away from his family members who get into trouble.

Appalled Moderate


Tom asks if his questions were answered. I only see one unanswered question out of five. So, let us roll the TM/Obama press conference...

When Obama attempted to quell this on Saturday he warned us that "over the last several weeks that the forces of division have started to raise their ugly heads again."

Does Obama consider his own minister to be one of those "forces of division"?

Obama: And yet, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that the discussion of race in this campaign has taken a particularly divisive turn...On the other end, we’ve heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.

How can he rationalize his twenty year association with this man, and how does he explain his minister's sermons to his daughters?

Obama: Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety – the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity’s services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions – the good and the bad – of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community.

Again, last Saturday Obama told us that "[Our country has] got a lot of pent-up anger and bitterness and misunderstanding. But what I continue to believe in is that this country wants to move beyond these kinds of divisions."

Does Obama really believe that Wright wants to move past these divisions?

Obama:[No answer]

Has Obama had much success moving Wright past his anger?

The profound mistake of Reverend Wright’s sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It’s that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country – a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past.

Or if not, is it only white people that are supposed to give up their anger and end their divisiveness?

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances – for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans -- the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives – by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.


RomaD

*I Changed My Mind, Like I Did for NAFTAGATE* More Lies?

March 14, 2008:

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: "Well, first of all, Anderson, you know, I strongly condemn the statements that have been shown on the tape.

I have to confess that those are not statements that I ever heard when I was sitting in the pews at this church. This is a church that I have been a member of for 20 years. This is a well-established, typical, historically African-American church in the South Side of Chicago, with a wonderful set of ministries.

And what I have been hearing and had been hearing in church was talk about Jesus and talk about faith and values and serving the poor."

[snip]

Obama Speech, March 18th, 2008:

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."

[snip]
-------------------------------------------
Do I believe the Senator? No, but it doesn't really matter. What matters is what the voters who support him think. I hope they're not fooled...again.

MayBee
- Black people have reasons to be angry about slavery, Jim Crow, and ongoing discrimination;

- Whites have reason to be unhappy with (pre-reform) welfare, affirmative action, busing, and being called a racist for worrying about black crime rates.

I'm guessing the Asian vote is just too small for Obama to worry about.

PeterUK

It sounds like that "transcendental masturbation" that was all the rage four decades ago.

Ralph Phelan

white grandmother ... a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street

A rational fear based on a sad statistical reality about who the perpatrators and victims of crime really are.

"I hate to admit it, but I have reached a stage in my life that if I am walking down a dark street late at night and I see that the person behind me is white, I subconsciously feel relieved."
-Jesse Jackson.

A fear even Jesse Jackson can admit too, but that Obama appareently consider shameful when his frail old grandmother shares it.


White people who are afraid of black crime are gonna break two ways over that line. Those susceptible to PC guilt over their thoughtcrimes will be ashamed, and support Obama even more strongly than they do already.

Those not susceptible to such guilt will be pissed off.

fdcol63

RomaD,

Even here, Obama is waffling and trying to give himself some room.

"Controversial" in his March 18 statement does not necessarily mean the exact same comments he was referencing on March 14.

Perhaps "factually" correct .... but definitely PARSING.

tp

I wonder if Obama took his children to any of Reverend Wright's sermons.

The Ace

I only see one unanswered question out of five.

Thanks for the laugh.

This, is not the "answer" you think it is.

But it also means binding our particular grievances – for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans

Why do all of you leftists have such glaring literacy problems?

Mars vs Hollywood

I didn't want to hear Obama throw Wright away like trash. It's too late for that anyway.

What I wanted to hear, and didn't, is specific addressing of a few of Wright's points. This "remarks that may have been considered controversial" nonsense is crap.

I want Obama to say the idea that the government created AIDS to kill black people is ridiculous.

I want him to point out that the Tuskegee Experiment did not involve the government infecting black men with syphilis. What they actually did is bad enough, it doesn't need extra embellishment.

He won't, of course. Because he knows a significant portion of his base believes those things.

Thomas Collins

The speech will keep the superdelegates in a holding pattern and will give MSM the excuse to attempt to bury this story. I still don't think B_O wins the nomination. The morning after the Pennsylvania primary (which I think will be at least 60-40 for HRC) will be a reality check for the Dems.

Ralph Phelan

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy.

In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people

Now, this thing about the US government spreading AIDS. Is that one of the things that "cause such controversy" or one of the ones that "does not just exist in the minds of black people"? I still don't know.

Obama's annoyingly unspecific in where exactly he disagrees with Wright. I can see two reasons for that:

(1) He's hoping most of his listeners haven't heard Wright's actual words yet, and he doesn't want his apology to reveal to them that what he's apologizing for is even worse than they had known.

(2) He's playing his usual appeal to wishful thinking double game, hoping that white part of his audience will make the widest possible assumption as to what it is he's disagreeing with, while the black part will take the narrowest one.

Roy E

OK, the speech is over. BO wants to have it both ways. It settled nothing.

Can we go back to Obama, Rezko, and corruption now?

Charlie (Colorado)

Anduril:

Perhaps I have a more expansive view of what's on topic.

Or perhaps you have a less developed understanding of when you're being a dick.

Ranger

I want Obama to say the idea that the government created AIDS to kill black people is ridiculous.

I want him to point out that the Tuskegee Experiment did not involve the government infecting black men with syphilis. What they actually did is bad enough, it doesn't need extra embellishment.

He won't, of course. Because he knows a significant portion of his base believes those things.

Posted by: Mars vs Hollywood | March 18, 2008 at 04:04 PM

Yes, exactly. Some enterpriseing reporter should put together a list of the Rev. Wrights lies and ask Obama directly. Do you accept this or reject this. None of this trying to have it both ways. Rejecting for one audiance, but not specificly enough to cause a backlash in the other audiance.

Ralph Phelan

I'd like to know how this played with folks whose only knowledge of Wright is from the MSM - in some cases they've been kind of covering for him by paraphrasing, and/or choosing his less outrageous quotes.

That may have been Obama's real audience.

GMax

Althouse draws a diverse mix of commenters. I see very liberal Obama supporters pre and post love the speech. I dont see a lot of folks changing their minds and now being for a transcendent candidate. In fact that is probably all Obama could hope for, to stop the bleeding and pray that maybe he can give an "asked and answered" response to the next dozen Rev Wright questions.

But Hill is sharpening her attacks and I think Pennsylvania may end up 55 43 or thereabouts, a trouncing.

Superdelegate Howard Dean how do you cast your vote?

Sara

Juxtaposed in my feedreader, the report of Obama's speech and this article:

Tiger Woods buys $65M house in Hamptons"> to go along with his $40M house in Florida, a 155' yacht and a 16,500 sq.ft. "palace" in Dubai.

All I want to know is, does Obama's speech allow me to start "hating" Britain for confiscating my ancestor's farm and hounding him out of the country and to America because he left the Church of England to become a Quaker, or how 'bout the French for killing my 13thGGrandfather and imprisoning his family for the sin of being a Huguenot?

anduril

That's the second time in a week that you've made my day.

The Unbeliever

Was it just me, or did it sound like Obama was trying to shoehorn in "black credentials" using his wife's biography instead of his own at one point?

I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners – an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters.

Is it still identity politics if you try to use someone else's identity to bolster your victimhood credentials?

(And am I the only one legalistic enough to nitpick the ramifications of denoting blood as an "inheritance"?)

TexasIsHeaven

"Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.
Psalm 1.1
So said the Pharisees."

See, this is the problem with liberal thinking in a nutshell. This is why their view of life is so screwed up and their thinking processes are so flawed.

It is not the Pharisees who are speaking here.

I rest my case.

LindaK

Church choice is a very personal decision and mostly revolves around whether you feel comfortable with the message of the pastor and the make up of the congregation. So, despite BO's denials to the contrary, 20 years of history with Trinity Church and its pastor leads to only one conclusion: BO chose that church because it is comfortable for him and his family.

But this speech also raises another question about him. If he is planning on being an agent of change, wny did he not try to change the anti-white, anti-American commentary? Why did he not try to send it in a less "divisive" direction.

This guy is a charlatan, a no-go showboat.

fdcol63

I think someone else mentioned it above:

Obama's safe for now, and will probably be the Dem nominee in Nov. His speech today was enough for those who already supported him and who still want to believe that he's transcendant.

Hillary and her team, as well as the rest of the DNC leadership, don't want a civil war within the Democratic Party that challenging Obama further on this issue will cause. Perhaps they'll do what's "best" for the party by somehow sharing the ticket in 2008, hoping that their joint support will be enough to defeat McCain.

But even if not, they'll only need to suffer through ONE probable term of a "maverick", "independent" McCain presidency, while they'll control both houses of Congress.

Rather than exacerbating racial tensions within the Democratic Party that would create a schism that would last for years, this may be seen as the lesser of 2 evils for them.

vnjagvet

If BHO or his handlers intend for "the speech" to turn the thing around, they will be disappointed. It did not nail it for the tough Pennsylvania ethnic european and hispanic traditional dems, i.e., the kind that (the sorry) John Murtha represents.

But if they intend to use it to create snippets that can be used in spot advertising appealing to this group, it might have some chance.

In either event, I don't think it turns PA around.

Flash:

Newt asks, "if he can not turn his pastor of 20 years from his errant ways, how is he going to turn around Putin, Ahmadinijad, etc., etc?"


Sue

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1>Jake Tapper at ABC is not letting this go.

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."
Sue

Forget the first part where I said he wasn't letting it go. It is an April 2007 story that drudge linked to.

GMax

Fdcol63

You have a quite charitable view of Queen Hill. She may not want a civil war, but in my opinion she wants the nomination and thinks she has a right to it, and is not afraid to act like the monkeys at the zoo and fling poo, if that is what is required.

No Obama basically succeeded in placing a tourniquet on the wound, and will get to have his head handed to him in Pa.

Then the superdelegates real headache will begin. Who wants 11 PM phone calls from Harold Ickes and Sid Vicious?

Sue

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/03/analysis_obama.html>I actually read all the way to the end

But this speech will be remembered as the moment that Obama got a little more down and dirty, and grounded his candidacy in serious mechanics of governance. He tried to take apart the engine and get some grease on his hands rather than just pat the hood.

This wasn't the gauzy vision of diversity draped in tapestry metaphors and colored in rainbow hues: It was a nation confronting its sins and overcoming its deeply held fears and prejudices.

GMax

VDO nails it pretty well from where I sit:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWVkMThjN2RjNDU2N2EzODE1YWRmZmQwMTE0YWFkMzg=>AN Elegant Farce

fdcol63

GMax,

When I said that they might "share the ticket", I meant that she might agree to a joint ticket with her on top, Obama as VP.

I agree, she's ruthless enough to pursue her own dreams at any cost, but this incident may have given her enough cause to insist - in a deal to save the Democratic Party - that Obama take 2nd fiddle, especially since he's young enough to run later on top afterwards.

Would this satisfy Obama? I don't know. But there are many who'd settle for an African-American as VP .... for now, with the good chance that in a term or 2 Barack would be the sure nominee for P.

But perhaps I am giving Hillary and the Dems too much credit! LOL

GMax

VDO nails it pretty well from where I sit:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWVkMThjN2RjNDU2N2EzODE1YWRmZmQwMTE0YWFkMzg=>AN Elegant Farce

LogicalSC

"What I wanted to hear, and didn't, is specific addressing of a few of Wright's points. "

Someone nailed this exactly as he didn't want those who weren't aware of his pastor's racist and anti-sementic rantings to get to here them now. Heck, people who only listen to NBC or CBS have not idea this is even an issue.

So he gets a two-fer...they tell these uniformed boobs that the "Messiah" gave a speech on race today or they can say that Obama responsed to some racist upset with his pastor's right to speech in church.

At the very most they will play the part where he is angry with America and since most liberals hate this country as much as Wright, it could win him more votes.

Sara

Isn't MSNBC an Obama cheerleader? Say Anything has the screen shot:

MSNBC Advertises Oreos During Obama Speech

The Unbeliever

This wasn't the gauzy vision of diversity draped in tapestry metaphors and colored in rainbow hues: It was a nation confronting its sins and overcoming its deeply held fears and prejudices.

Why were they talking about the appointments of Secretaries Powell and Rice?

Oh wait...

LogicalSC

sorry...un-informed

clarice

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/03/obamababble.html

PeterUK

How will Obama's speech fare if,to use a technical term,the world economy goes tits up?
Who will heed this pap when the cost of building the pyramid of Pharaoh Algore starts tearing the heart out of the treasuries of the West?
When the economic crisis collides with the astronomical costs of "global warming" measures the politics of grievance will become very small beer.
The just ain't no grandeur in the man.

GMax

In case you dont click links the ending flourish of VDH which says it all:

Obama is right about one thing: We are losing yet another opportunity to talk honestly about race, to hold all Americans to the same standards of public ethics and morality, and to emphasize that no one gets a pass peddling vulgar racism, or enabling it by failing to disassociate himself from its source — not Rev. Wright, not even the eloquent, but now vapid, Barack Obama.

leavemealone

Is it just me ?? I just finished reading the entire transcript and what I see is someone that wants to be my DADDY. I am not looking for a Daddy for president, to tell me what is right and wrong or tell me I must learn to play well with others, I don't need or want him to kiss my boo boos. I want the government to get out of my way and out of my life and let me live it as I see fit. I am not a big McCain fan but at least I don't see him trying to stick his nose into every nook and cranny of my life, I do not need a nanny!

Sue

Clarice,

Yep.

SteveMG

That's a great speech (reading it; I've not seen the tape).

I know of no other American today who could give anything remotely similar to it. Of course, his own history is the great enabler for him to give such a speech.

In it are the seeds of a future post-racial America.


Pofarmer

Has anybody in the history of politics ever taken shots at his own grandmother in a speech? A speech about reconciliation?

That kinda struck me, too.

It seems to me that Barak Hussein is supremely uncomfortable in his own skin, skin that's more arab and European than Black.

He says Grandma was afraid of Black men. Well, her and Jesse Jackson, I suppose.

Sara

Aaaaah, Hillary is saved, saved I say:

PHOTO: PLAME/WILSON COME TO HILLARY'S AID...

MayBee

Didn't Michelle Obama once say Barack was black enough to get shot anytime he goes to the gas station?

GMax

Clarice I wish one day you would lose your calm and just really tells us what you think about Obama.

Oh wait I think you just did!

RHSwan

Overall, I was disappointed by Obama’s speech. I wanted a speech on race relations. What he delivered was a campaign speech on race.

He didn’t need to say white Americans were losing their jobs because they were being shipped overseas. And what does healthcare have to do with race? He brought “special interests” in Washington DC as a way of saying this is the thing white people would be fighting against if it weren’t for all these conservatives and talk shows talking about phony discrimination and “political correctness”. And the only reason to bring in Ashley in the end was to say white people support me too. And we need health care.

Is it just me or does anybody else see a resemblance between some of Michelle Obama’s comments (in particular the “This is the first time I have been proud of my country” comment) and Reverend Wright’s. I can easily see Reverend Wright making that exact same statement.

Porchlight

Has anybody in the history of politics ever taken shots at his own grandmother in a speech? A speech about reconciliation?

His grandmother who is still living, at that. I hadn't realized that she is still alive.

TexasToast

TexasIsHeaven

Wow! You showed me - you biblical scholar you!

Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

Luke 15:1-2 KJV

In the tradition of

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Psalms 1:1 KJV

Note the startling difference!

So, despite BO's denials to the contrary, 20 years of history with Trinity Church and its pastor leads to only one conclusion: BO chose that church because it is comfortable for him and his family.
But this speech also raises another question about him. If he is planning on being an agent of change, wny did he not try to change the anti-white, anti-American commentary? Why did he not try to send it in a less "divisive" direction.
This guy is a charlatan, a no-go showboat.

The speaker here knows the mind of Barack Obama. There is only one conclusion. She also knows that he made no effort to “… change the anti-white anti-American commentary.” And you say liberals have a flawed thinking process? Can one detect any thinking process in the above quotation? A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste.

MayBee

I know of no other American today who could give anything remotely similar to it. Of course, his own history is the great enabler for him to give such a speech.

But don't you think that is at least partially because white people have been shamed (through PC and cries of racism) out of talking about such things?
What white person is allowed to talk about black racism toward whites without being called a racist?

The Unbeliever

Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect.

How many of those whites with whom he interacted were non-contributors to his church, or friends of the same?

But in the interest of healing the divide, Obama gets points from me for good grammar. Too many politicians throw out good form in the interests of slightly more effective rhetoric. Now if only his policies were as good as his delivery...

clarice

*wink*
Shuffle, tap, swirl and bow...tap,tap,tap.

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Wilson/Plame