Different But Equal

Jake Tapper tells us about Jeremiah Wright's speech to the NAACP:

The bulk of his remarks addressed, however, different groups seeing each other as deficient. He acted out the differences between marching bands at predominantly black and predominantly white colleges. "Africans have a different meter, and Africans have a different tonality," he said. Europeans have seven tones, Africans have five. White people clap differently than black people. "Africans and African-Americans are right-brained, subject-oriented in their learning style," he said. "They have a different way of learning." And so on.

Hmm - I would have guessed that clapping on the downbeat was a social construct, but I am not as well educated as Jeremiah Wright.  That said, I am trying to imagine the reaction if a white figure announced that black brains were different.

UPDATE:  Hilzoy disputes the interpretation which understood Wright to be making (or Tapper reporting) a neurological distinction between brains based on race:

Likewise, Wright claimed that black and white children tend to have different learning styles. I have no idea whether this is true or not, as a generalization, but suppose, for the sake of argument, that it is: it would not begin to imply any differences in brain structure. By the time kids arrive at school (and Wright was talking about school kids), they have, obviously, absorbed a lot from the people around them. In particular, they have gotten used to learning from the people around them in different ways, to paying attention to different sorts of cues, and to different kinds of activities. These are the sorts of things that go into a "learning style": are you a kid who learns best by silently reading? by talking things through with other people? by trial and error? by putting things in your mouth, taking them apart, turning them over so you can see what you can do with them?

There is no earthly reason to think either (a) that kids from different cultures might not have very different learning styles, or (b) that if they did, this would reflect some sort of neurological difference. None at all. In a culture in which children are taught that they should be seen but not heard, they are probably less likely to learn by talking things through, at least with adults. In a culture in which children are expected to be very quiet and not cause trouble, they are less likely to learn by seeing what they can do with things. This is obvious. And it's what Rev. Wright was talking about.

I suppose that what sent Ed Morrissey off on this tangent was this: “Africans and African-Americans are right-brained, subject-oriented in their learning style,” he said. “They have a different way of learning.” If you just focus on the adjective "right-brained", and leave out what that phrase is supposed to modify ("learning style"), I suppose it can sound neurological. But a right-brained learning style doesn't have to involve any neurological difference; it's just a learning style that tends to draw more on right-brain capacities than on left-brain ones. There's no reason that I can see to assume that the reason someone ends up with a given learning style has to be the structure of that person's brain, as opposed to the ways in which the people around them act.

Well.  Some of these things are not so obvious to me.  If an entire culture was oriented to a particular learning style, I would be reluctant to assume that this was simply arbitrary, and that another learning style would be just as effective.  It strikes me as plausible that a culture would have hit upon a teaching style that matches up well (on average, obviously) with their chidren's learning style; if a different culture has a wildly different style, it would suggest that differences in the kids should be considered.  (I am certain people have pondered the elaborate Asian lettering/drawing schemes and its impact on learning styles).

And to say a "right brained style" versus a "left brained style" does not automatically have to imply a neurological difference is true enough, but it is equally true that it does not have to imply a neurological sameness.  The unanswered question is whether the style choice is arbitrary or reflects some cultural adaption to the innate ability of that culture's children.  At which point I suppose a proper lib will complete the circle by insisting there are no differences, so the style choice must have been arbitrary.

Or to step away from race for a second to illustrate my point - what of the popular notion that boys prefer to play with trucks and girls with dolls?  Biology, or social construct?  My strong impression is that lots of research documents fundamental sex-based differences in brains, and suggests  a differentiation of sex-based learning styles.

There are two issues in play here - what is the "truth" (good luck with that) and what did Wright actually say?  From the transcript:

Dr. Hale's research led her to stop comparing African-American children with European-American children and she started comparing the pedagogical methodologies of African-American children to African children and European-American children to European children. And bingo, she discovered that the two different worlds have two different ways of learning. European and European-American children have a left brained cognitive object oriented learning style and the entire educational learning system in the United States of America. Back in the early '70s, when Dr. Hale did her research was based on left brained cognitive object oriented learning style. Let me help you with fifty cent words.

Left brain is logical and analytical. Object oriented means the student learns from an object. From the solitude of the cradle with objects being hung over his or her head to help them determine colors and shape to the solitude in a carol in a PhD program stuffed off somewhere in a corner in absolute quietness to absorb from the object. From a block to a book, an object. That is one way of learning, but it is only one way of learning.

African and African-American children have a different way of learning.

They are right brained, subject oriented in their learning style. Right brain that means creative and intuitive. Subject oriented means they learn from a subject, not an object. They learn from a person. Some of you are old enough, I see your hair color, to remember when the NAACP won that tremendous desegregation case back in 1954 and when the schools were desegregated. They were never integrated. When they were desegregated in Philadelphia, several of the white teachers in my school freaked out. Why? Because black kids wouldn't stay in their place. Over there behind the desk, black kids climbed up all on them.

Because they learn from a subject, not from an object. Tell me a story. They have a different way of learning. Those same children who have difficulty reading from an object and who are labeled EMH, DMH and ADD. Those children can say every word from every song on every hip hop radio station half of who's words the average adult here tonight cannot understand. Why? Because they come from a right-brained creative oral culture like the (greos) in Africa who can go for two or three days as oral repositories of a people's history and like the oral tradition which passed down the first five book in our Jewish bible, our Christian Bible, our Hebrew bible long before there was a written Hebrew script or alphabet. And repeat incredulously long passages like Psalm 119 using mnemonic devices using eight line stanzas. Each stanza starting with a different letter of the alphabet. That is a different way of learning. It's not deficient, it is just different. Somebody say different. I believe that a change is going to come because many of us are committed to changing how we see other people who are different.

I suppose one could insist that Wright is talking about a strictly cultural phenomenon.  One implication of that interpretation would be that in this country, African-American families persistently raise their pre-school kids with a learning style that makes them dysfunctional in white-dominated schools (and I say that based on all sorts of gloomy standardized test scores).  Sort of non-adaptive and self-destructive, yes?  Are the cultural influences from Africa really that strong that they overcome Sesame Street and a million other clues as to what the dominant white culture is doing to educate their kids?

Wright is describing a trend so strong that it seems to me to be race-based, not culturally based.

Comments

[Daryl Herbert]

I'm disappointed in you, Tom.

You didn't think to refer to it as "Wright-Brained."

Obviously, you were truly gob-smacked by his remarks.

[larwyn]

Hey you guys, don't worry, I've forgotten how to even attempt italics or bolding so you're safe. Just wanted to note that I was floored listening to Wright's left brain/right brain theory of the races.

Tom just wrote it perfectly.
(pretend it's italics)
I am trying to imagine the reaction if a white figure announced that black brains were different. (pretended italics end)

I've been sending out private emails this evening, that the essence of what Wright said is that the Black brain has not evolved from the primitive, depending on the oral (traditions) for learning.
That eliminates developing a true written language and reading it.

Wright pointed out that they have learned all the Hip Hop lyrics. So must we now train math and chemistry teachers to rap their lessons. The Periodic Table in Hip Hop could be the next Grammy winner...sigh.

Bottom line is that African Americans don't learn because you have never ever taught them right. Never. Ever. You used books, you fools! So don't you dare blame us, just pour in more money for William Ayers new RAPPING SOCIAL JUSTICE MATH, available for download, as CD and "way cool" (lordy, does my generation show) DVD.

This from a man who preaches anti-middleclassness and who is moving into a 10,000 sq ft mansion in a gated community of more than 90% white neighbors..

It's beyond satire.

Just recalling all the trouble Charles Murray got in for "The Bell Curve" and , my memory is not serving, that funny outspoken very old gentlemen who lost his foundation position and his invite to speaking engagements within the past year for drawing similar comparisons.

As McCain said today, Obama opened door to considering Wright.

Wright has just opened the door to considering a lot more. Hope the outcome is finally some honest discussion.

[lonetown]

"I am trying to imagine the reaction if a white figure announced that black brains were different."

Wasn't it called "The Bell Curve"?

and it didn't go well.

["Robert H]

Rev Wright has shown me that I am a racist after all.

Sadly, I had thought, along with the other Unconscious Racists at Obama rallies that chant "Race doesn't matter", that Blacks and Whites were only different in skin tone.

NO, NO, NO....

Rev Wright's speech tonight has opened my eyes. Blacks and Whites are truly different. "Not deficient, just {genetically} different". White school children use their Left Brains; are Object Oriented; and thus sit quietly at their desks learning the Algebra that will allow them to become engineers, brain surgeons and Astronauts,.

Black school children, however, use their Right Brains; are Subject Oriented; and thus crawl over their desks, ignoring their books and their teacher's lectures. Suiting them to be basketball players, jazz musicians, and hip hop artists. "Not deficient, just different".

While White children say "he went to the store", Black children speak an Entirely Different Language, saying "he be gone da store"..."not deficient, just different". In the same way, for instance, that Bostonians say "cah", instead of "car".

No longer will I expect Blacks to meet White standards on test scores; learn Objective Subjects; or speak grammatically correct English. Their schools have not failed them, they are just racially "different".

Rev Wright has opened my eyes to my racism, expecting Blacks to meet White standards. I'm so ashamed of my racial ignorence.....

[Jane]

I just want to know what happened before "hip hop"?

As I said before, I'm trying to reconcile Obama's 2004 speech about "One America" with all this separate but equal rhetoric from his spiritual mentor. I guess it's "just words".

Oh and Good Morning!

[Neo]

Wasn't it called "The Bell Curve"?

If you read it, you'd know that Herrnstein and Murray's point was that "if there were intellectually deficient groups" not that they identified such groups. Even they we're that non-PC.

I'd say it's safe to say that Wright is a bona fide racist, but that would miss the real point. Don't send your time thinking gangsta, when you should be thinking huckster.

You have to realize that pastors of black churches often think of their congregants in a niggardly or "less than" terms, its part of the huckster role that demands "no noise" or "paper-only" in the basket.

When you finally realize that Obama's 20 year apprentice in hucksterism at Trinity Church was to gain "street cred" and train his skills at manipulating the black community, it becomes clear why he spend 20 years there becoming a modern day carpetbagger.

[Rick Ballard]

Larwyn,

Welcome back. You've been sorely missed. Fire away with italics and bold - no damage was ever done before and none will be now.

"RAPPING SOCIAL JUSTICE MATH" does seem like something Ayers would support. Tag a "how the man keeps you down" subtitle on it and Annenberg and the Wood foundation would pour money into the program.

[Ralph L]

Good Morning, Jane.
The Periodic Table in Hip Hop could be the next Grammy winner...sigh.
Tom Lehrer, call your agent.

[centralcal]

What a wonderful weekend! And, it only got more so, when I read around the web this morning!

Wright Brain - Left Brain! Who knew?

Craig Ferguson - Funny, patriotic, called out the NY Times! (Audience members [some] apoplectic.)

Obama saying Wright is a "legitimate" issue.

McCain seeing funding going to the NC GOP, seizes onto Obama's open door and calls out Wright for comparing the Marines to Romans who crucified Jesus.

OH HAPPY DAY.

[centralcal]

Dang it! I have to go back to work today. I hope Jane and Elliot will be covering the Press Club event with Rev. Wright Brain.

[Jane]

It's on now, in the background, but I too have to at least pretend to work.

[kim]

Holy Corpus Callosum. larwyn hopes for some honest discussion, finally. What brought you to such dire straits?
====================

[MayBee]

How does the African learning thing work for mixed-race children?

Upon watching the NAACP speech, I finally came to the conclusion that Obama had to be attending that church for political reasons. I had not previously believed that.

Another surprise was Soledad O'Brien giving the speech rave reviews, saying how funny it was. Yikes.

[Jane]

Maybee,

Wright praised Soledad in the speech itself. I can't remember why, but she and he are buddies in something.

[BumperStickerist]

Well ...

Theresa Heinz is an African by birth.

Go figure.

-

I'm curious how many many "tones" the Reverend thinks the Jews have.

.

[Rick Ballard]

"I had not previously believed that."

I find that surprising, MayBee. What set Obama apart from Sharpton, Jackson or Farrakhan in your mind? I marked him as a two bit hustler with a strong voice and and a slick delivery from day one and I haven't been able to determine why others see him as something apart. The Alinskyite training led him to TUCC as an organizing base, he learned a little extra patter there and used the church as a springboard.

What's different about that?

[DrJ]

that funny outspoken very old gentlemen who lost his foundation position and his invite to speaking engagements within the past year for drawing similar comparisons.

That would be Nobel-laureate Jim Watson, of Watson and Crick fame. He was forced to step down from Cold Harbor Springs, the lab he founded.

[clarice]

Hi, larwyn!
Can Ebonics(again) be far behind the right brain, different tones for different hues school?
It's hard to pull a fast one on Mr. Ballard but as soon as PUK and I figure out hard to, he's on the street with his shares in SCAM in our accounts.

[MayBee]

Wright praised Soledad in the speech itself.

Yeah, I heard him praise her and Roland Martin (who earlier in this bruhaha had tried to 'contextualize' Wright for the CNN viewer without mentioning their friendship).
Soledad said everybody there was laughing at his hand-clapping comments, but then everybody at his church was cheering the AmeriKKKa comments. I really don't like Soledad, but I was surprised that she didn't at least have enough sense to see this speech was divisive, not just different.

[clarice]

How much did this Wirght tour of America cost the Hillary campaign, do you suppose?

[DebinNC]

Right after his primary win in 2004:

Obama: I have a deep faith

"These days, he says, he attends the 11 a.m. Sunday service at Trinity in the Brainerd neighborhood every week -- or at least as many weeks as he is able. His pastor, Wright, has become a close confidant."....

"Another person Obama says he seeks out for spiritual counsel is state Sen. James Meeks, who is also the pastor of Chicago's Salem Baptist Church. The day after Obama won the primary in March, he stopped by Salem for Wednesday-night Bible study."

[kim]

Portugajewish, tooish, croyish. Daughter of a doctor, she married well, the first time, to a man who's dad 'made soup'.
===================================

[kim]

Meeks is a bad homophobe.
===================

[MayBee]

I find that surprising, MayBee. What set Obama apart from Sharpton, Jackson or Farrakhan in your mind?

Hmmm...I'm not sure how to answer that.
I suppose previously I thought Obama somewhat agreed with Wright, and that's why he went to that church.
However, last night's speech seemed so opposite of policies Obama seems to present that I can't imagine Obama agreed with him on much at all.

(I have to use the word "seem" a lot with Obama.)
I always knew he was more liberal than most, and he wrapped his liberalism carefully in a unitey theme. I liked him, though, because he did seem sincere that he wanted pleasant discourse. I do not believe he is as liberal as Wright, though. Or whatever it is that Wright is, because last night's speech was so way out there.

[kim]

'The Promised Land'. Yeah, right. I hope ta' change.
================================

[clarice]

James Lewis has a great piece today on how Wright represents the hatefilled left--here's a sample:
"

We have been nursing a viper in our national bosom. Seven years after September 11, 2001, this is the moment of truth, when the Left must finally decide what side it's on. Wright's sermons may signal the end of the Obama campaign, and they may mean the breakup of the Democratic Party as we know it. I don't see how any centrist Democrat can still belong to this partyif Obama is its nominee. Jeremiah Wright may mean the historical end of the Civil Rights Era, because fifty years after Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Left's presumption of victimhood and innocence is now gone.

The Rev is only the visible bulge of this lethal political tumor. This is Saul Alinsky's sociopathic teachings on display, and this is what Hillary Clinton learned back at Wellesley College. It is the voice of feminists who hate all men, and of radicalized blacks who hate all whites.

Hate mongers collect injustices. If you and I did that, we could collect an endless laundry list about all the bad things somebody did to us. Maybe we have been hurt by men, or by women. Maybe we have been hurt by rich people, or by the angry poor. Maybe we have been hurt by Jews or blacks or whites, and we can put all our built-up rage on their heads. It's been done many times in the human past; that's exactly the psychology we see at work in Africa, the former Yugoslavia, Sri Lanka, and various Muslim nations (among others), when explosive massacres take place. Mob psychology has been manipulated by demagogues throughout history. This is simply the another version of the Kluxers and Jim Crow lynch mobs. Today I see that psychology clearly enough on the Left, but outside of the ranting rooms of verifiable paranoids I don't see it many other places in this country. "

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/the_moment_of_truth_for_the_le.html>Hate

[DebinNC]

Apparently Soledad is biracial:
"Interracial marriage in Maryland was illegal back then (O'Brien's mother is a black Cuban), so the couple married in Washington, D.C.."

It sounds like she comes from a family of high-achievers, but I can see how Wright's message would resonate with her.

[Danube of Thought]

I'm sensing a groundswell of support for giving the Rev. a weekly show on a major network, running from now until November.

[narciso]

Technically, right, she was born in Mozambique, possibly the most repressive of
Portugal's colonies. It was also a rather exclusive vacation destination; Harold Robbins,of all people wrote a novel about it. Her ex Luftwaffe daddy; Paris education,
marriage to the Ketchup king; all combined to form a whole new flavor of moonbat; with
islamist sympathies.

[DebinNC]

More from James Lewis:

"Just as William F. Buckley denounced the anti-Semites on the right, and sensible Americans rejected segregation and the Klan, just as American unions expelled Stalinist unions from the AFL-CIO, the time has come for the decent Left to draw a bright line in the sand, and keep the hate mongers out."

At the NPC this morning, Wright repeatedly said, "This [fallout] is not an attack on me, but on the black church." I hope some reputable, non-BLT black ministers will step up and publicly defend Biblical Christianity. For instance, both Wright and Obama have stated they believe all faiths are equal in God's sight. Asked about that today, Wright quoted Jesus mentioning having "other sheep not of this fold", which has always been a verse motivating Christian missionary efforts. I don't think a majority of Christians agree with Wright's interpretation.

[MikeS]

Rev. Wright is intolerant. He preaches racial intolerance and victimology.

He claims that his 'enemy' made him a slave and put him in chains, and made him "this color."

Now, Rev. Wright knows he's not a slave, but he still believes he is one. He knows he is not in chains, but claims he is in chains.

The Rev. Wright knows I don't understand this.
He says it's because I don't understand the Black Religious Experience. That may be the one thing the Reverend is right about.

[clarice]

Really good writers are having a field day in Obamamama ding dong land today. I think Don Surber is the winner.
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2008/04/27/obama-to-debate-himself/>Flag Pin Tap Dance

[pagar]

Clarice, great link.

Compare from James Lewis~~~~"We have been nursing a viper in our national bosom. Seven years after September 11, 2001, this is the moment of truth, when the Left must finally decide what side it's on. Wright's sermons may signal the end of the Obama campaign, and they may mean the breakup of the Democratic Party as we know it. I don't see how any centrist Democrat can still belong to this partyif Obama is its nominee."

and over at Obama Watch,, where they have posted a Howard S. Katz Article

"So now we know what the election of 2008 is really about. The Democrats may nominate a racial bigot who hates the large majority of the people in the country he is trying to lead. The campaign will be very simple. The Democrats probably won’t come right out and say it, but their position will be, “We hate America.”

"I first met these people at Harvard in the late 1950s. The issue has nothing to do with black or white. They hate America because America is the country based on freedom. They are not liberals. Neither are they democrats (with either a lower or upper case “D”)."

"The formal name of these people is Social Democrat. This was a movement founded in 1875 in Germany to prevent the ideas of freedom and democracy from advancing across the continent of Europe. In 1912, the Social Democrats took control of Germany and fomented W.W.I. Then another Social Democrat, named Adolph Hitler, fomented W.W.
II."

"Barack Obama does not care about rights. With his wife and his pastor, assuming he wins the Democratic nomination, we can look forward to a very sorry few months in which the media repeat every current (academic) lie intended to discredit America. As this issue plays itself out, do not fall into the trap of thinking that it has anything to do with African-Americans. It was born in Germany in 1875, and its motive was hate for America."

[Jane]

This sort of sums it all up nicely I think. (From the James Lewis AT piece Clarice linked)

But what are the choices available?

[clarice]

Jane, babes--let's swirl on the dance floor to "You can't always get what you want........"

[DebinNC]

Here are the sponsors and speakers of the "black theology symposium" Wright touted.

[Enlightened]

Ok, to be totally honest, I find myself very uncomfortable about this subject - not so many years ago white people were saying things just as ignorant and hateful about blacks as Rev Wright does about whites. Not all white people - to this very day - think that blacks are their equals. Clearly not all blacks will ever think of whites as their equals. I don't know where Wright's personal hatred of whites stems from, but I don't think it's fair to say it's completely unwarranted, whites are responsible for unimaginable crimes against blacks. I'm just saying - it seems weird that whites are getting so up-in-arms about his racially tinged blather. I'm feeling like alot of people think we (whites) are even MORE racist because of the very fact we are so offended by it. Meaning that, blacks have put up with this crap from whites for a long time, why can't whites put up with it when the tables are turned? I'm not speaking to his actual statements - those are another issue entirely and define him as a man, albeit a psychotic man, I'm referring to the act of a black person publicly declaring his utter hatred of whites, and whites seemingly aghast by the act.

I'm offended by his hatred of America, by his leftwing psychosis, by his Truther conspiracy, AIDS conspiracy, and virtually every political platform he plays to, but I am not offended that he hates me because I am white. And that's where I get uncomfortable, - I could care less if he hates me. So if I take away his racial overtones, all that's left is another f--ked up leftwing blithering idiot. So am I racist because of this? I am honestly not offended in the least by his anti-white rants. I don't hate him, I just despise his philosophies.

[MayBee]

it seems weird that whites are getting so up-in-arms about his racially tinged blather.

He could have blathered all day for years on end at his church in Chicago and NAACP meetings and nobody would have batted an eye.
It is that he was the pastor of the man running for President of the United States of America. Why did that man, that potential POTUS, choose this church, this man to be his spiritual advisor & his campaign advisor.
That's the issue. That's why people are up in arms.

[MarkO]

Different tones for different homies?

Ebony and Ivory? (Yeech.)

Clearly the Reverend is a racist. His world view is divided into the keys on a piano. The five tones are the black keys. There is a long held theory that all African-American music is based on the pentatonic scale, which for the Rev means only the black keys. One can successfully, if not happily, play Amazing Grace on just the black keys. To play it only on those keys, makes Pat Boone sound deeply impresonistic.

The seven tones are, of course the white keys. (I didn’t know that there were so many pianos in Western Africa in the 1700's.) But, we white folk, for example Mozart, have strayed from the narrow path of the key of C (without accidentals) and have even evolved into the miscegenation of the minor scale. Perhaps, that is why that scale sounds so melancholy. Good musicians don’t need no Loving v. Virginia.

The Rev is an idiot. If his real IQ is above 70, I’ll kiss DOT. No, make it Clarice.

If white voters feared the “unknown other” of a black (or semi-black) candidate, before this fool started explaining himself, they will be wholly (or holy) against that unknown now that his association is known.

As for me, I will continue to practice the chromatic scale and leave no key untouched.

[Danube of Thought]

This is a candidate who simply does not seem to like this country very much, although from time to time he makes appropriate noises suggesting that he is at least willing to give it a chance (provided that it elects him to the presidency).

And whatever his personal views, it is very clear that he has a number of long associations with people, including his wife, whose attitudes toward the country range from general disapproval to visceral hatred.

Americans have never elected such a person president, and they won't do it this time. They don't need a Weatherman...

[MarkO]

Sorry. "impressionistic."

I can play by ear.

Apparently, I spell by ear.

[Danube of Thought]

Well sure, MarkO, but how do you account for those 9th and 13th chords? I mean, in the key of C you got your G 7th, right, but what about those 9ths and 13ths? See?

[hilzoy]

Tom: I watched the speech (by accident; flipped on CNN while eating dinner.) Nothing he said implied neurological differences at all. The only mention of right and left brains was in a discussion of learning style, and a left-brain learning style, supposing there is such a thing, would just be a learning style that draws more on stuff in the left brain.

He plainly thought that the clapping thing was social. It was, in any case, in a different part of the speech from the learning styles point, and had to do with different musical traditions.

[MarkO]

Great DOT. Which of those little white keys do you push to get a 9th or a augmented 13th? Hell, you can't play any Buddy Holly song without Am7.

The Rev ain't no Chuck Berry. I'm starting to wonder if he can even dance with that little right (what a pun) brain of his.

[DebinNC]

Americans have never elected such a person president

And the "such a person" part has nothing to do with his race. I wish a majority of blacks understood that.

Another donor revelation from Obama's past:
"After an unsuccessful campaign for Congress in 2000, Illinois state Sen. Barack Obama faced serious financial pressure: numerous debts, limited cash and a law practice he had neglected for a year. Help arrived in early 2001 from a significant new legal client -- a longtime political supporter."

I think the Obama family's financial problems were due less to college loans, and more to misplaced priorities.

[Enlightened]

I get that too - I really don't care if Obama hates me because I'm white - which I think is true based on his associations and his wife's mini-Wright rants. I just think the white v black overtones should be extracted from the debate.

What's left after race is removed is a man with an angry wife, an angry pastor, angry friends, angry associates, violent associates, maybe even latent violent tendencies in himself - no different than Ward Churchill who would never be considered as a viable POTUS candidate. So I guess that is racist too.

I'm formally declaring that I am racist then. I would rather be a racist and never act on it, than be a closet racist that might imperil the future of our country.

[MarkO]

hilzoy, in your tepid defense of the indefensible, do you know the first thing about music? Do you have any idea how wrong Wright is? Not just about the scales but every narrow view he posits?

[clarice]

I suppose that hatred is at least as a transcendent an emotion in politics as love and good will ..in fact, (per Hitler and Stalin and their ilk) it may be the most usual unifying force....for a while.

[MarkO]

hilzoy,

Just how would the black folk of Wright’s group have done the “clapping thing” on “Here Comes the Sun,” for example? It’s just an innocuous little social difference. It’s like, well, Baby’s Got Back, right?

[MayBee]

He plainly thought that the clapping thing was social.

Are you sure, Hilzoy? What was the bit about do re mi fa so la ti do that they teach in schools being "European-- italian" then?

[MayBee]

Enlightened-
The other thing I meant to say is this:

I think Wright's rhetoric leads to politics and policies that are dangerous to the most vulnerable among us. If he were just howling in the wind, it wouldn't bother me as much. As it was, he was preaching the politics of victimization and it was right at home in Detroit, a city which has been led by politicians saving it from the white man for so long it has nearly reached the bottom.

[MayBee]

(you can point out that the white man has not always treated Detroit well either, and that is true. We should be able to talk about *both* sides without feeling racist)

[bio mom]

Once it was the white racists who held blacks down and now it is the black racists who do it. Virtually all other minority groups: Vietnamese boat people, the Chinese who were indentured here to build the railroads, Cubans fleeing Castro, dirt-poor Irish immigrants fleeing the potato famine, Jews fleeing pogroms in Russia, and now the Hispanics, manage to rise out of their poverty in one or two generations and enter the American mainstream. African Americans could do this too but the race-baiters insure otherwise. For example: Instead of working with the government to help after Hurricane Katrina, instead we got charges of Bush allowing it to happen and not helping because New Orleans was black. They blew up the levees, etc. nonsense. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson agitating there within days to stir up resentment. How did that help anybody? The further and further we get away from the years of Jim Crow the less tolerant the non-black Americans will be of the Rev. Wright types. Only when Bill Cosby, Ward Connerly, Condoleezza Rice, and Colin Powell are accepted by their own black community will the race issue in this country be solved.

[Danube of Thought]

May I simply offer up the fact that it was white people, in the form of the British Royal Navy, who undertook an entirely selfless effort to stamp out the slave trade (in which black Africans were willing participants)? And that it was white abolitionists who started the campaign to end slavery in the US, and that hundreds of thousands of white men died in a war to end slavery?

Let's face it, it is already certain that this is going to be an election largely about race. It is Democrats and a number of Obama allies, not Republicans, who have ensured this. And it's not at all good for Obama's candidacy.

[MarkO]

I'm struck by how little things have changed in Wright's mind and church since 1968. Maybe I'm still a kid. Yeah, that's it. Let's do the time warp again.

[MikeS]

If Obama loses this election it won't be because of white racism.
I will be because of his elitism, his racism, his extreme liberalism, his deceit, and his corruption.

[Danube of Thought]

Just posted this on another thread, but this one is a more appropriate place for it:

"Obama has two constituencies -- African Americans and college-educated liberals. They're both passionate bloc voters and will turn out in droves. But their numbers are limited. They'll give Obama Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Mississippi, Illinois, and maybe California and Oregon, but that will be about it."

That's from William Tucker in the American Spectator today.

[PeterUK]

Reve Wright Compares Marines to Romans who persecuted Jesus

[DebinNC]

NewsBusters has the NPC video.

"How bad was Reverend Wright's appearance before the National Press Club this morning? Bad enough that even CNN contributor Roland Martin--who yesterday enthused about Wright's address to the Detroit NAACP, who gave Wright's chat with Bill Moyers an 'A'--flunked it with an 'F.' Bad enough that David Gergen condemned it as "narcissistic beyond belief." Bad enough that, introducing a panel discussion of the speech, the palpably distressed CNN Newsroom host Tony Harris let out an audible groan of "ah, boy," and later wondered how much damage had been done."

[clarice]

Even CNN and NPR can only hold their fingers in the dike for so long before they are themselves swamped.

[PeterUK]

"Africans have a different tonality," he said. Europeans have seven tones, Africans have five."

In fact most races have pentatonic (five note) scales.Two of the principal western major and minor diatonic (seven note) scales could be seen as expanded versions of the major and minor pentatonic scales.It was the two extra note which allowed the development of harmony (the Tonal System)which was so richly utilized by black musicians in Jazz.
Where has this geezer been since Sydney Bechet? Pity Duke Ellington isn't around to slap him about his ears.

[DebinNC]

"Africans have a different tonality," he said. Europeans have seven tones, Africans have five."

Some commenter I read said Obama has six.

[Enlightened]

Seriously, be he white or be he black - anyone that believes and perpetuates that "tonality" crap is utterly deranged.

I just think we can cut to the chase and call the guy a paranoid schizophrenic and move along. But of course, we just can't - which Wright is mining furiously.

Pretty soon the GOP will have to change the (R) next to anyone's name lest they be labeled with the Scarlet R.

[hilzoy]

"hilzoy, in your tepid defense of the indefensible, do you know the first thing about music? Do you have any idea how wrong Wright is? Not just about the scales but every narrow view he posits?"

All I am saying is that nothing -- nothing that he said implied neurological differences. I wrote about this here. Among other things, I questioned some of the scholarship. But saying he's wrong about music is different from saying: what he says about music (right or wrong) involves saying that there's a neurological difference between blacks and whites. It doesn't.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

I wish someone had thought to ask for Wright's ideas on Duke Ellington, Billy Strayhorn, and Fletcher Henderson:

Fletcher Henderson was born in Cuthbert, Georgia. His father was a former slave who was freed by General Sherman during the Civil War and who went on to become an educator during Reconstruction, and his mother taught piano. He attended Clark College in Atlanta, Georgia and graduated in 1920, where he was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, the first intercollegiate Greek-letter organization established for African Americans. After graduation, he moved to New York City to attend Columbia University for a master's degree in chemistry. However, he found his job prospects in chemistry to be very restricted due to his race, and turned to music for a living. ....

In 1922 he formed his own band.... For a time his ideas of arrangement were heavily influenced by those of Paul Whiteman, but when Louis Armstrong joined his orchestra in 1924 Henderson realized there could be a much richer potential for jazz band orchestration. ....

While Henderson's music was loved by the masses, his band began to fold with the 1929 stock market crash. The loss of financial stability resulted in the selling of many arrangements from his songbooks to the later-to-be-acclaimed "King of Swing" Benny Goodman.

[hilzoy]

I mean, does anyone think that whether a group of people uses a pentatonic scale depends on brain structure?

If not, can anyone point me to where Wright said it did?

[DebinNC]

VDH on the scary legacy of the 2008 Dem primary..

[Enlightened]

And on a purely discordant level - his voice is the most aggravating noise I think I've ever had the displeasure of hearing. How anyone can listen to that tonality for one sermon, let alone 20 years or more of it, is way beyond my auditory grasp.

[PeterUK]

"How does the African learning thing work for mixed-race children?"

He uses a six note scale,very irritating when he is shaving."Do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti"

"I woke up this mornin" La re do la.

[Ralph L]

non-BLT black ministers will step up
They'll be toasted and kicked out of the Club. I wouldn't rye to you.

[PeterUK]

"I'm curious how many many "tones" the Reverend thinks the Jews have."

Thirteen,but to you twelve.

[DebinNC]

Transcript of Wright's NAACP speech

[Enlightened]

OK - He is just a f--king idiot. I love Frankie Beverly and Maze. So apparently a tonality-impaired whitey like myself should not be keyed into black music. I mean, won't it make my tonality-synapses start misfiring or something?

[boris]

G9 is all white keys snd so is G13.

Write is wrong about scales. The scale that Africans "hear" is the blues scale which is 6 tones and can't use white keys only or black keys only.

Five tones for Jeremia: Do Re Mi Fa Q

[boris]

* Wright * right?

[MikeS]

Didn't Stephen Hawking proof Rap Music was an oxymoron?

[Jane]

They'll give Obama Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Mississippi, Illinois, and maybe California and Oregon, but that will be about it."

Obama won't get Massachusetts. WE already have buyers remorse. We call him Governor Patrick.

[artfldgr]

Wright is not a racist.

in order to understand this, and to understand what happened in teh bell curve and to watson, one has to understand class (communist) conciousness.

i keep explaining it, but so far, the only ones getting it are the ones following it.

in the dialectics of class politics, you have oppressor classes, and the oppressed classes.

the oppressor class can never become the oppressed class (which means no matter how it changes over, the oppressors are always that way till they are exterminated).

the opressed class, can also never become the oppressor class. no matter how they behave, they are only acting out justice. because whatever ill the oppressed class can visit the opressor class, is called justice.

so reverend wrights racism is not racism, but justice... and a white man believing the same, is racism.

in the dielectic their is no way for the oppressed class to become oppressors. and there is also no way for the oppressor class to help, or to even bow out.

what most americans dont get is that they are serious, adn ahve been for nearly 100 years. and we have been ignoring them as our judeo christian roots say to do... live and let live etc.

they are black natinal socailists... outher than the special qualifier black, there is nothing to distinguish them from the white national socialists... you know.. the NAZI party... (which is now the green libertarian party!).

when the change comes, it will come fast. it will come too quick to pull back. it only took a week in latvia...

then it takes about a year and a half to consolodate.

if we get to that point, there will never be free humans on teh planet again except for a small ruling class that oversees the human animals below them. (which is why their rules are causing homogenization of the population as we on teh bottom dont care who we mate with anymore... if allowed to progress, you get morlocks and eloi)

the whole idea not to accept genetics as truth, is a way to get us not to think of the implications of their policies in genetic terms.

ghosts are not real, so do we think of things in terms of ghosts. no

but if thye were real, or if genetics really is what it is, then their policies are breeding programs. and the best and brightest of the west are self exterminating, using sangers negro project to do it.

[clarice]

Boris "Fa Q"--did you really think no one would catch that?

[Sue]

What?

[Enlightened]

Hah! FaQ in A minor?

[Gmax]

OT

I did not have to time to scroll through the posts of this morning but the Supreme Court has upheld Indiana's photo ID to vote law, by a vote of 6-3. Photo ID laws across the country now have Supreme Court guidance to allow them to construct a law that will pass judicial review for constitutionality. Amazing that we even had to argue about such a common sense item, you can not cash a government check without photo ID. I can t imagine that this impacts anyone negatively, except those that want to dilute my vote by enhancing their by many multiples.

[MikeS]

Wright's argument is that he is not a racist because his belief in racial rhythms, and black brains and white brains, etc., is part of his religion.

[Gmax]

I just caught Bill Press, as flaming a liberal as there is on tv, he was desperate to put some distance between Obama and Wright and said that Obama needs to denouce the guy. I missed the performance, but if Bill Press is not making all kinds of contortions on why its no big deal, it must have been a nuclear explosion. What did I miss?

[Sara]

I'm just saying - it seems weird that whites are getting so up-in-arms about his racially tinged blather.

For me, and many, I think, there is shock. We honestly thought things were much better between white and black in this country than they apparently are, as far as the black community is concerned.

Katrina was the first shock. As white donors were giving thousands, millions, and opening their homes to anyone in need, we heard the black leaders blaming everything of misery in their lives on the very people trying to help and provide rescue.

Why do anything, if everything you do is criticized and labeled as racist? And like spoiled children, it is always give me more, but no matter how much is given or how many special considerations are given, it is never enough apparently.

You know, having a darker hue to your skin doesn't guarantee hardship. Many of us have known some real hardship too, have had doors of opportunity closed to us, yet somehow if we are white, it is our fault, whereas if you are black, it is still our fault.

[Thomas Collins]

Is it possible that Wright is trying to sink B_O? Wright may feel that B_O's steps to distance himself from Wright, even if they might seem small steps, constitute disloyalty. Wright may think that B_O's affiliation with Wright's church has helped B_O in Chicago politics, and that B_O is now stabbing Wright in the back. How else to explain that Wright seems to be intentionally inflammatory in his recent public remarks?

[Enlightened]

And now, according to Joe Klein - Wright is purposely trying to destroy Obama. Seriously - to take him down a notch or two for distancing himself from the guy.

This is just fascinating. Does Wright really have that kind of power? He can assist in getting BHO to this point, first black man ever etc....and have the power to destroy him? Kinda scary.

[clarice]

Either (a) he's deliberately sabotaging O (b)He's on Hill's payroll, or (c) He's insane in which case O's 20 year membership in and contributions to his church speak ill of his own sanity and judgement.

[pagar]

"Katrina was the first shock. As white donors were giving thousands,"

"Where is the Katrina Money?" Article

"ATLAS EXCLUSIVE: OBAMA'S PASTOR WRIGHT!WHERE IS THE KATRINA MONEY?"

"Bill Warner has been doing some serious investigating on Obama's spiritual mentor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. Back on September 19, 2005, Trinity United Church of Christ ran a plea for cash on their bulletin. They were directly taking contributions/donations for "Hurricane Katrina" demanding that the check be made payable to Trinity United Church of Christ. "We are not taking clothing or non-perishable items". JUST CASH....why not the Red Cross as the "Pay to", who monitored the money, where did all the cash go, who monitored Rev. Wright and his non-profit church ?"

"Due to the overwhelming response to the needs resulting from Hurricane Katrina, Trinity United Church of Christ is not accepting any clothing or non-perishable items. The church is accepting all monetary donations, however. Please make all checks or money orders payable to Trinity United Church of Christ."

[Jane]

It all went to that pretty stainless stell kitchen in the 10,000 square foot frimly deserved new home Pagar. Certainly as good of a cause as Katrina!

How much did BO contribute?

[MarkO]

Boris, good point. The key of G, however, has one sharp, that F key (which you point out in your own personal scale. Maybe you are that sharp one. If an open G is good enough for Keith Richard’s guitar, we can take it to the bank.

[MarkO]

Boris, here's that wayward punctuation mark: )

[DebinNC]

Since his videos appeared, Wright has only appeared before friendly crowds. Even today at the NPC, the seats were filled with his supporters as the press looked on from the balcony. What puzzles me is the joy and ebullience Wright shows. He's obviously loving this.

There's something in it for him beyond just the media circus of the moment, but what? Does he want to lead a national movement of some kind? Does he want to join JJ and Al as one the media run to every time there's a noose found on a doorknob? Did Obama need a Sister Souljah foil and Wright happily volunteered? The only scenario I find hard to believe is that Wright knowingly set out to damage BO's nomination and being blamed for it by black America.

[jb]

Don't imagine.

Think "The Bell Curve."

[cathyf]

It all depends on what key you're in. In the key of F#/Gb, even "Mary Had A Little Lamb" is on all black keys.

That's rather the point of equal-temperment tuning. But I suppose Wright has shown ample defects in temperment, eh?

[MarkO]

Enlightened, you will go to jail if you FaQ in A minor. Oooh. You are so nasty we all love you.

[Porchlight]

Did Obama need a Sister Souljah foil and Wright happily volunteered?

This is what I think, in my more cynical moments. This is just one big set up for Obama to smack down. He knows that his earlier speech wasn't convincing, so he's going to give it another whirl.

[Danube of Thought]

If Wright volunteered for the Sister Souljah role, Field Marshal Obama has been fatally slow on the uptake. If he denounces him--or disowns him, or whatever-- for what he is saying now, the next chapter will be devoted to the question, "what the hell is so different about what he's saying now as opposed to what he's been saying for lo these many years?"

I rank this one well above the disclosure of Tom Eagleton's electro-shock therapy, and McGovern's ensuing "1,000 per cent" support, followed quickly by Eagleton's withdrawal. Except there is no withdrawal option here; Obama's the one.

[Porchlight]

I see your point, DoT. I don't think such a move on Obama's part would be convincing. But for the Muddle who is barely paying attention, it might work, at least in the short term. After that he can say "old news, I already denounced the guy, let's move on" and maybe the media will be relieved to get off the subject of race and let him off the hook.

In any case Obama is desperate and running out of options.

[MarkO]

The Wright Rev says that he will put the arm on Obama when the young prince becomes President. That calms my concerns. Does he have pictures of the young prince with farm animals, and you know how sheep can lie. What I believe we will see as this train shoots off the tracks (like in the Fugitive), is that the thinking inside the Wright Church and in the looney offices of Ayers, while considered odd by most of us, is, by the young prince’s life narrative, the truth.

The arrogant dismissal of Ayers’ terrorist activities as irrelevant because of some passage of time, like a political statute of limitations, tells us that the YP so enjoys today’s Ayers (the same as yesterday’s Ayers) that he is willing to overlook not only the felonies, but the unrepentant reaffirmation of that political view.

In Wright we have the oppressed vision of American history, to which the young princess seems to adhere even in public. It’s like a bad marriage in which one spouse is always responsible for every misadventure. If something affects Wright’s people, the American White Government caused it. We would be wrong to believe that none of this seeped into the YP’s view of the world, inasmuch as he chose this clown to be his spiritual advisor. Even in the YP’s insipid race speech, he called the comments only “divisive,” as if that were a substitute for “lies,” “defamation” “bad science” and “bullsh*t.” Many things are divisive and not all of those things are lies. This country is divided over many things, but mere division is not inherently bad. When those division are fostered by self-aggrandizing claims against “whitey,” those claims need attention, not the divisions caused.

I tend to think YP believes many of those things. I wonder what Hillary has on him that gives her the strength to go out in public with WJC and hang in. This will be so much fun. I may even watch CNN.