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April 27, 2008

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Jane

The split in the democrat party is simply breathtaking!

Danube of Thought

Careful, Maguire--if you get too close to Larry you may find yourself becoming dangerously fat and unattractive.

clarice

Johnson couldn't find his ass with his own hands--someone fed that tidbit to him. Does it help that he's been backing Hill all along? Oh, naughty me for suggesting that.

Danube of Thought

He and Joe Wilson have been huge Hillary backers throughout the campaign. I honestly believe they thought they might get jobs in a Clinton administration. If the next prez is anyone other than HRC, Larry will go back to being a security-guard wannabe like he's always been.

And I eagerly await Joe's being frog-marched out of court by the D.C. Circuit.
Anyone know the status of that appeal?

DebinNC

Stray Thought - wasn't Michelle Obama hired to work for Daley in some capacity?

"In 1991, the death of her father [a Dem precinct captain] from complications related to MS caused Michelle to re-evaluate her life. She left corporate law to work in the public sector, first as assistant to Chicago mayor Richard M. Daly, later as the assistant commissioner of planning and development." link.

ed

if you know anything about Chicago, you know the amazing failure of the Chicago public schools. if this is an example of the Ayers/Obama synergy, get ready for a disaster.

DebinNC

Did Obama ever attend an American public school? Are his daughters still in the private U of C school?

pagar

IMO, Ayers would not consider it a failure as long as he can present his Anti-American agenda to students and get converts.

Foo Bar

Lots of folks have worked with Ayers. The right-leaning Chicago Tribune, which hasn't endorsed a Democrat for president since 1872 and which endorsed McCain in the Republican primary, has published several Ayers pieces over the years.

Ranger

Mr. Johnson notes a possible overlap of Michelle Obama and William Ayers' wife, Bernardine Dohrn, at Sidley Austin.

That is a facinating tidbit, if true, because Dohrn was apparently hired, but then let go by Sidley Austin because she couldn't be admitted to the Bar in Illinois due to her citation for criminal contempt in the case where the two police and one security gaurd were killed. If Michelle Obama was there when that happened, then she presumably knew that Dohrn (and probably Ayers too) had serious issues that would be a political liability for Barack when he entered politics.

It also leads one to think that, rather than the way it has been presented (that Barack and Ayers are friends because they have crossed paths on these public endeavors), in fact, they partnered up on the public endeavors because they were already friends.

MikeS

This is not the relationship that BrockO described when he was asked about his association with Ayres.

Jane

Lots of folks have worked with Ayers.,/i>

Only one running for President. (This from a right leaning republican)

Jane

oops

Ranger

Lots of folks have worked with Ayers. The right-leaning Chicago Tribune, which hasn't endorsed a Democrat for president since 1872 and which endorsed McCain in the Republican primary, has published several Ayers pieces over the years.

Posted by: Foo Bar | April 27, 2008 at 02:17 PM

Yes, Old Man Ayers' money and power certainly purchased young Billy and his Wife a lot of forgiveness in Chicago. As the chairman of the board of Commonweath Eddison, the main electricity utility in the Chicagoland area and the chairman of the Board of Trusties of Northwestern University, he had a lot of both. As one member of the Northwestern Law faculty noted, the hiring of Dohrn due to her father in laws influence ammounted to the "laundering of evil."

Well, as far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter how many times you launder it, it is still evil, and those who have willingly done the wash for it, will carry its stain as well.

Its also interesting the way so many on the left now jump to defend Ayers and Dohrn. I though the kind of old boy networks and interpersonal relationships that were used to grease their way into positions of power and comfort were exactly what the lift is always fighting against.

MikeS

Lots of folks have worked with Ayers

It's not the crime, but the cover up that concerns me.

Cecil Turner

Lots of folks have worked with Ayers.

Looks to me like Ayers wrote several articles about Chicago Public Education (which he is apparently well-informed about), and the Trib published 'em. How that is compelling evidence others worked with him (or redeems his political [terrorist] past) is beyond me. And Larry Johnson was actually informative about something. A first!

windansea

Here is a 60 page history of the first three years of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge

PDF created 9/15/1999
modified 9/29/2004


Bill Ayers is mentioned repeatedly, but Barack Obama is only mentioned in a late supporting note, and it is far from clear what his role was.

And who was the Chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge Fund from 1995 to 2001? That would be Barack Obama.

does not compute, how can Obama be the inaugural Chairman and not be mentioned in "The First Three Years"?

wayback machine on the websites?

Foo Bar

(or redeems his political [terrorist] past)

It doesn't redeem Ayers' past, but I do think it's useful perspective when assessing how (un)usual it was for Obama to have some affiliation with him or whether it was a truly grave error in judgment to associate with him.

Do you want to argue that his association with Ayers reflects very poorly on Obama but the Trib's association with Ayers does not reflect poorly at all on the Trib? Is Ayers a guy that's supposed to be shunned by polite society, or isn't he?

Danube of Thought

"The right-leaning Chicago Tribune...has published several Ayers pieces over the years."

This is supposed to prove something? The New York Times regulary publishes David Brooks and William Kristol. The Wall Street Journal has published George McGovern and Alan Dershowitz. National Review has published Garry Wills. The Boston Globe and the Washington Post have published William F. Buckley, Jr.

Please, Foo Bar, tell us what it all means.

Ranger

does not compute, how can Obama be the inaugural Chairman and not be mentioned in "The First Three Years"?

Well, it could have been a purely cerimonial position being "President of the Board of Directors." If so, then it was given to him as a plumb to pad his resume for future political endeavors. In fact, that is exactly what I imagine it was, because administering a 50 mil grant is a big deal and might actually show some executive experiance. The fact that he doesn't mention it means that there probably was minimal actual work involved in the position.

Danube of Thought

"Is Ayers a guy that's supposed to be shunned by polite society, or isn't he?"

Of course he's not, Foo Bar--he's as mainstream as apple pie. Keep hope alive.

MikeS

does not compute, how can Obama be the inaugural Chairman and not be mentioned in "The First Three Years"?

Cover-up?
To me, it seems that Obama has not been forthcoming about his relationship with Ayers.

Cecil Turner

Do you want to argue that his association with Ayers reflects very poorly on Obama but the Trib's association with Ayers does not reflect poorly at all on the Trib?

What association does the Trib have with Ayers? He apparently founded one of the education funds, and advises the Mayor on education. Should they not publish his pieces on a topic in which he is obviously expert? Isn't that a perfectly ad hominem argument?

Ranger

Do you want to argue that his association with Ayers reflects very poorly on Obama but the Trib's association with Ayers does not reflect poorly at all on the Trib? Is Ayers a guy that's supposed to be shunned by polite society, or isn't he?

Posted by: Foo Bar | April 27, 2008 at 03:02 PM

I think it reflects very badly on the Chicago Tribune (which, by the way, is far from "right leaning" and paved the way for Obama's Senate seat by going to court to unseal Jack Ryan's divorce papers).

The fact that Daddy Ayers' wealth and power was able to "fix" things for Bill and his wife is a shame on the entire Chicago political and social system (one of many I may note).

Foo Bar

Please, Foo Bar, tell us what it all means.

Your analogy doesn't work. If Ayers were merely a guy with far-left views with no history of violence, this wouldn't be much of a story. Brooks, Kristol, etc., are not ex-terrorists.

Danube of Thought

For some reason Foo Bar wants us to know that the Trib has published Mr. Ayers, but makes no mention of the fact that the New York Times has done so as well. (It also published the Unabomber.)

Could that have anything to do with the fact that in his NY Times piece the mainstream Mr. Ayers regretted not having set off more bombs?

Foo Bar

Should they not publish his pieces on a topic in which he is obviously expert?

Right, Ayers is an education expert. Should Obama have not worked with Ayers via this Chicago Annenberg Challenge Fund, which was about reforming public schools?

windansea

scrub a dub dub
I've got terrorists in my tub

MikeS

It appears that FooBar, The Chicago Tribune, and Barack Obama have all forgiven Ayers.
I do think that is an example of bad judgment.

Tom Maguire

Lots of folks have worked with Ayers.

Lots of folks have run for President, too, but the two circles seem to overlap with just one person. And that one person seems to be pretty hazy about what his relationship with Ayers has been (see the Fox transcript or the recent debate). Where there's smoke and a guy with a fire extinguisher, there may have been a fire.

Ranger

If Ayers were merely a guy with far-left views with no history of violence, this wouldn't be much of a story. Brooks, Kristol, etc., are not ex-terrorists.

Posted by: Foo Bar | April 27, 2008 at 03:14 PM

Ironically, you hit the nail directly on the head.

"If Ayers were mearly a guy with far-left view with no history of violence, this wouldn't be much of a story"

This is a man who attempted to commit mass murder at Ft. Dix the same way the Tim McViegh and Terry Nicholes did in OKC. The fact that his cohorts blew themselves up with the nail bombs before they could plant them does not erase the fact that the intent was there, and that, to this day, Ayers has not admitted any regret at all except that they didn't succeed at killing all those NCO and their wives and girlfriends that night.

So, yes, the calculus is different, and this is a story because of his violent past and his refusal to repent for it. Do you think that if Terry Nicholes prosecution had been preveted by government action, and he went and got a PhD in education and wanted to publish something on school reform, anyone would touch it regardless of how well thought out or written it was?

Danube of Thought

How about working with him to give a hefty donation to a racist pastor's church?

Ayers's "expertise" is manifested in his November, 2007 remarks describing the US as a place of "great stress, and oppression, and authoritarianism," and bemoaning "a kind of rising incipient American form of fascism."

Foo Bar is exquisitely correct in noting that the persons I identified, unlike Ayers, are not ex-terrorists. They are simply people who get published in organs that disagree with them editorially, an event that happens every day.

If you think Ayers's views of today's America are mainstream, go ahead and say so. And say so as often as possible from now until November, and we'll leave it up to the electorate to decide.

Foo Bar

(It also published the Unabomber.)

Kaczynski's terrorism was ongoing at the point, he hadn't been caught yet, and the Justice Deparment recommended that the NYT and WaPo publish the manifesto out of concern for public safety and with the hope that someone would recognize his writing style and help catch him.

That's completely different from the Ayers situation. He was a prof at UIC and hadn't been considered dangerous for decades. The suggestion, though, is that decent people should not have associated with him.

pagar

Larry's blog does provide some entertaining
Reading

"The truly scary part is that Obama stands for, essentially, nothing."

"Obama stands for Obama."

"His entire campaign has been premised on creating a cult-like adoration of him as a transformational figure."

"The issues be damned."

"That worked incredibly well for a rather long time. As po’ Barry himself has complained, this campaign has gone on so long that babies have started walking and talking since he began running for president."

Cecil Turner

Right, Ayers is an education expert.

With no association with the Trib.

The suggestion, though, is that decent people should not have associated with him.

Yep.

MikeS

I'm thinking that either another shoe will drop on the Ayres connection, or somebody will come up with a racial angle and say we can't discuss it.

M. Simon

I came across a tit bit on a Dem site today (I'd have to look it up) that through various foundations and boards Bomber Ayers was Words Obama's boss for 8 years.

Might have been a different thread on the Larry Johnson site.

Foo Bar

Lots of folks have run for President

Now that I have your attention, I wonder if you would be willing to fix your McCain/maverick post to reflect that fact that McCain-Feingold got eleven Republican votes in the Senate, not one, as you incorrectly recalled. I don't know if you maybe meant "got one Republican vote" as some sort of humorous exaggeration, but I'm sure it was read literally as your recollection of the facts by the majority of readers.

Foo Bar

With no association with the Trib.

Decent people shouldn't "associate" with him, but it's fine to publish him in the leading paper of one of America's largest cities, thereby increasing his prestige and influence. OK, then.

M. Simon

Did Obama ever attend an American public school? Are his daughters still in the private U of C school?

It is called the Lab School. They still attend.

BTW the Trib hasn't been right leaning for years.

They traded places with the Sun Times. (which is nominally the South Side [black] paper)

The Trib now leans liberal and the Sun Times leans conservative.

MikeS

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Danube of Thought

"The suggestion, though, is that decent people should not have associated with him."

Not if they want to be president of the United States. Not close. Obama will suffer for this association, and he should. Just as McCain should suffer if he'd had a long association with David Duke or Pat Robertson. G.W. Bush was pilloried for a single appearance at Bob Jones University. The idea that Obama's associations with these nutballs ought not be discussed is simply ludicrous.

And if it were merely an effort to associate with those holding a wide range of disparate views, we'd have a list of his associations with conservatives over the years. We don't; there are none. Pressed to come up with one recently, the best he could do was to call Senator Coburn--whom he met in 2005--a "friend."

He's an oily fellow with a bad habit of hanging out with fringe loonies. Go ahead and tell me that's off limits in a presidential campaign.

Danube of Thought

Poor Foo Bar is still hung up on Maguire's innocent typo.

Cecil Turner

. . . but it's fine to publish him in the leading paper . . .

He was advising the (Democrat) mayor on education. Pretending that there's something wrong with publishing his views on the subject--or that that constitutes a right-wing endorsement--is silly. (The mayor working with him in the first place displays some questionable judgment, however.)

MikeS

Poor Foo Bar is still hung up on Maguire's innocent typo.
sometimes genetic in certain breeds

Rick Ballard

"To me, it seems that Obama has not been forthcoming about his relationship with Ayers."

BHO's not exactly "all in" wrt his candidacy, is he? Gotta keep the Chicago wheels greased if he doesn't want to repeat Carol Moseley Braun fantastic single term performance. That is, unless he's already awaiting indictment for some Rezko (or other) indiscretions.

One might think that he already knows what's written on the last page of this farce pretending to be drama. He should.

Foo Bar

BTW the Trib hasn't been right leaning for years.

Their endorsements for other offices aren't entirely predictable, but they endorsed GWB in '04, and they haven't endorsed a Dem for president since 1872. In any case, the relevant time period is the period over which Ayers' pieces were published. That goes back at least as far as 1988.

MikeS

BHO's not exactly "all in" wrt his candidacy, is he?

Yup, and it's not just passive omissions. Obama seems to have been actively obfuscating on the Ayres connection.

Jane

He was a prof at UIC and hadn't been considered dangerous for decades.

By whom?

Appalled

I want all those who are in an uproar about Ayers to state their position on Oliver North -- whose prosecution was similarly stymied for technical reasons.

North, while no terrorist, was certainly willing to sell arms to a terrorist nation. And, last time I checked, he is being hailed as a hero in certain right wing precincts (not here, to my knowledge). North is now worth millions and giving speeches with the sponsorship and the support of the US marines.

So, how do you feel about that, folks?

Oh -- as for Ayers -- you can take the measure of a leftist's sincerity and intelligence by whether or not he openly supports Hugo Chavez. If he is a Chavez supporter, he is either not capable of thought, or too anti-american to bother with it. As for Obama's association -- it still feels far more tangental than hsi association with Wright, and far more explicable.

sylvia

Obama says "And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago..."

So when did a certain amount of time make someone's evil acts okay? Would Obama have said that about Hitler if Hitler came back to life and served on a Chicago board with him? Would he say, "oh well, Hitler... yeah he did some bad stuff, but that was soooo long ago, before I was born, and we are just friendly, serving on a board together, it's no big deal," and then expect to be elected President?? I doubt it.

SlimGuy

Perhaps I am reading it wrong but the pdf for the Chicago Education Fund seems to list the two as donors to the cause and not as members of the Leadership Council itself.

Is there an earlier pdf reflecting actually being in those positions?

Chicago seems to have a love affair with ex social radicals since Bobby Lee Rush was founder of the Ill Black Panther Party who is currently serving in the House defeated Obama in the 2000 primary for that seat before Obama ran for the Senate in 2004.

Foo Bar

He was advising the (Democrat) mayor on education. Pretending that there's something wrong with publishing his views on the subject--or that that constitutes a right-wing endorsement--is silly

I'm not claiming that publishing Ayers amounted to an endorsement of his views.

You seem to be suggesting that if Ayers was advising the mayor then the Trib had no choice but to give Ayers space on their Op-Ed page (which is clearly beneficial to Ayers) as opposed to merely reporting on Ayers's influence with Daley in their hard-news education coverage.

MikeS

I think Oliver North was convicted (later overturned because of an immunity agreement) of destroying documents and accepting a security fence around his house. He apologized for his crimes and said he was ashamed of the mistakes that led to them.

SlimGuy

link

First and foremost is the notion that Obama "led" the Chicago Annenberg Challenge in any meaningful way. "As a private citizen, he led Chicago’s portion of the Annenberg Challenge school reform initiative financed by the late philanthropist Walter H. Annenberg—an experience that shaped Mr. Obama’s perspective on the critical importance of principals and teachers."

If he did, it's news to me and a lot of folks in Chicago. I wrote a long report about the CAC in 2001 (From Frontline Leader to Rearguard Action PDF) that failed to unearth Obama's name as anyone of any influence -- and never came across his name in an education context in the following six years during which I wrote a book about school reform in Chicago. Obama gets barely a mention in the Chicago Catalyst magazine, which goes back further and deeper than I do.

I don't mind Hoff and EdWeek delving into Obama's education history, and he's clear in other places that Obama's involvement in education is thin, but the Annenberg angle seems like a reach and I'm surprised none of the folks Hoff talked to told him so.

UPDATE: A couple of folks have pointed out that the claims about Obama's involvement in the Annenberg Challenge are from Obama's book and staff as much as from the article, and that they are not new. I'm also told that there is a somewhat parallel dispute about how much Obama actually led the way as a community organizer working on asbestos issues in Chicago's Altgeld Gardens housing project.

M. Simon

North was guilty as sin.

His note book was full of stuff about transporting kilos. No doubt rice and beans. His associate Blandon had few good things to say about what he was involved in.

And funny thing all that Iran Contra stuff is no longer on the 'net.

The CIA for a very long time has been involved in arbitrage - guns in one direction - drugs in the other. No dead heading for them.

Air America.

OTOH. I think it would be good if we stopped all price supports for criminals. i.e. end drug prohibition.

BTW after the furor died down the CIA admitted obliquely that Gary Webb was essentially correct although he got some details wrong.

sylvia

Now that Chavez's name has come up, I have a conspiracy theory for the day. Is it possible that Chavez has anything to do with Obama? We know that Obama is a closet leftist, we know that Chavez loves to meddle in elections and has mucho bucks, we know that Chavez probably would love Obama to be Prez. We know Chavez is conected to companies with internet voting. Hmmm.

So, all these massive internet donations Obama got.... He got all these donations from the kids apparently, but they haven't really bothered to vote in much larger numbers. Do the kids really bother to send that much cash online? Just a crazy thought, but how hard would it be to mask donations from one wealthy source as coming from various sources on the internet? Something to ponder.

M. Simon

Foo bar,

WTF difference does it make what the Tribunes position on all this is. It is a distraction.

We are talking Obama's relations with Ayers.

MayBee

It's a shame Daley was advised by Ayers. It is a shame the Trib published his writings. It is a shame that Ayers has become respected by many on the left.

For whatever reason, Obama has been hesitant to discuss his association with him. At one point his campaign denied there was evidence of any connection (I'm looking for that cite).
He could do something to demonstrate that he understands why many are bothered if they do indeed have a relationship, but instead he chooses to obfuscate.
The whole "I was 8 years old!" thing doesn't work.

Charlie (Colorado)

I want all those who are in an uproar about Ayers to state their position on Oliver North -- whose prosecution was similarly stymied for technical reasons.

Appalled, my position is that if you think North's involvement in selling weapons to Iran is in any way equivalent to Ayers' multiple felony murders and attempted bombing murder of civilians as well as members of the military, then you are a moral cretin whose opinion is only interesting in a vaguely clinical sense.

Charlie (Colorado)

Just a crazy thought, but how hard would it be to mask donations from one wealthy source as coming from various sources on the internet?

Sylvia, just as a technical point, in my professional opinion as a computer security expert, it wouldn't be hard at all.

I have no evidence that it's been done, but I can easily imagine technical approaches that would make it possible.

Jerry Bowles

Why do we keep refighting the Viet Nam war after all these years? Although I was part of it, I'm getting sick of "My Generation" and its endless, pointless obsession with 40 year old battles. It's not 1968 anymore, people. No wonder the Barackers want to move on.

Patrick R. Sullivan

There were some interesting things going on in Chicago's public schools in the mid-nineties:

Paul G. Vallas is the new superintendent of the Recovery School District of New Orleans in Louisiana.

He first gained fame as CEO of the Chicago Public Schools (CPS). During his tenure from 1995 to 2001, he led an effort to reform the school system, and his work was cited by President Bill Clinton for raising test scores, improving relations with the teachers' union, balancing the budget, and instituting several new programs included mandatory summer school, after school programs, and expanding alternative, charter, and magnet schools.

The position of CEO of the CPS was created by Mayor Richard M. Daley after he successfully convinced the Illinois State Legislature to place CPS under mayoral control. Vallas had previously directed the budget arm of the Illinois State Legislature and served as budget director for Daley.

Controversy plagued Vallas towards the end of his reign as CPS CEO. Following criticism from the mayor, and the election of a union president who ran on an anti-Vallas platform, Vallas resigned in 2001 and ran for Governor of Illinois as a Democrat. Vallas placed second in the Democratic primary, losing narrowly to now-Governor Rod Blagojevich while running ahead of former state Attorney General Roland Burris.

Following the election, Vallas was appointed CEO of School District of Philadelphia. In 2006, his initial five-year contract was renewed through 2008. In Philadelphia, he presided over the nation's largest experiment in privatized management of schools, with the management of over 40 schools turned over to outside for-profits, nonprofits, and universities beginning in Fall 2002.

I'd guess Ayers wouldn't have like Vallas style and would have been opposed to his regime.

Cecil Turner

North, while no terrorist, was certainly willing to sell arms to a terrorist nation.

Oh, please. Do you really think Ollie made the decision to sell arms to Iran? (And "terrorist nation" is an oxymoron.)

You seem to be suggesting that if Ayers was advising the mayor then the Trib had no choice but to give Ayers space on their Op-Ed page . . .

Not quite. I'm saying that Ayers was news. And it was perfectly legitimate to report his views, especially as he was counseling the decisionmaker. Choosing him as political ally is an entirely different subject.

ben

What did Obama know and when did he know it?

ben

"No wonder the Barackers want to move on."

Actually, considering how leftwing he is, no wonder MoveOn wants the Barrackers.

section9

Trust me, TM, if you keep scratching the Ayers connection, you'll find a connection to the Palestinians. I can almost guarantee this.

A lot of Lefties in Academe who are not Jewish find their way into anti-Zionist politics, usually starting with attendance at a Palestinian Land Day Event. It's only a short jump from there to fundraising for Holy Land and other Al Quds and Hamas terrorist money laundering fronts.

There was a reason that Obama's arab friends were scrubbed from his website; they give money to the Fedayeen. Some of that Fedayeen money makes it's way to Palestine, and I would not be surprised if we found that a whole lot of that Fedayeen money makes it's way to places like Al-Anbar, Diyala, and Nineveh provinces. Radioactive city....

Foo Bar

I'm saying that Ayers was news. And it was perfectly legitimate to report his views, especially as he was counseling the decisionmaker

Right. It would have been one thing for Ayers's quotes to appear only in hard news stories. That would be reporting the cold, hard fact that this guy, however terrible he may be, had Daley's ear.

It was something else entirely to give him Op-Ed bylines. A paper like the Trib obviously publishes a wide variety of viewpoints, but anyone who's allowed to publish an op-ed in their pages is afforded a certain level of respectability as someone worth reading, i.e., not someone to be shunned.

Patrick R. Sullivan

And, my guess turns out to be a good one:

It is not surprising that the contradictions between network activities [of the Annenberg Challenge] and new [Paul Vallas] district priorities created conflicts. The 1995 reform was a political accountability strategy, while the 1988 reform -- and the Challenge that was in so many ways tailored to it -- was built around the idea of expert-driven school redesign. To that extent, the 1995 reform was fundamentally at odds with the deeply-held beliefs of those who created the Chicago Challenge. ....

Perhaps the [Annenberg] Chicago Challenge simply had no room to maneuver. "They threw in with the grassroots reform community where the energy was in the early 1990s," said John [bro' of Bill] Ayers of Leadership for Quality Education. "They bet on that horse. And when the energy and the activism kind of changed towards Vallas..." ....

Wondering about a potential Vallas-Annenberg coalition is nothing more than Monday-morning quarterbacking, according to at least one of the grant's authors. "The context is different today," said William Ayers, who points out that there was no strong district leadership when the Chicago Annenberg Challenge was conceived. "If we were to do it all over today, we would work on creating a more robust inside-outside partnership with the district."

It may be true that the momentum behind the 1995 reforms was not immediately apparent. But it is hard to deny that the Chicago Challenge had opportunities to revamp its approach during the following years.

Not that adjusting to this massive change or working with the highly controlling Vallas would have been an easy feat. ...who was quoted in 1997 as saying, "I don't know what I have to do to satiate some of these groups. I don't have time to meet with them and wax nostalgic about the old days of school reform. I have a job to do."

MayBee

pages is afforded a certain level of respectability as someone worth reading, i.e., not someone to be shunned.

So the newspapers decide who should be shunned? Is that what you are trying to say? Or are you saying it isn't Obama's fault he had bad judgment on this, he was just following the Trib's lead?

Danube of Thought

"It's not 1968 anymore, people."

It wasn't 1968, it was 2001, when the estimable Mr. Ayers expressed his regrets about not having exploded more bombs. And it was 2007 when he declared the US a fascist nation.

It is my fervent hope that the Foo Bars of this world will continue to trumpet for the next six months their belief that Ayers is "mainstream," and that the oleaginous Mr. Obama's relationship with him is of no concern.

And trot out the innocuous Reverend Wright, the "biblical scholar," just as often as your please.

More cowbell! More explanations! Wa-HOOO!

ben

So Appalled wants to equate Ayers, a terrorist bomber in the U.S. who considers the U.S. a terrorist state with Oliver North, who was involved in an arms deal to support the Contras, sanctioned by his superior. We are really getting surreal here in Obama's defense, and someone actually questioned the other day as to whether Appalled qualified as an Obamabot.

"So, how do you feel about that, folks?"
I think its fine Oliver North is doing well..I don't think of him as a hero, but he is a patriot and he does a great job supporting the military. And that has absolutely NO parallel to the Ayers story.

Danube of Thought

On March 1, 2001, CNN published Osama bin Laden's praise of the people who attacked USS Cole. Welcome to the mainstream, Mr. bin Laden! You've been published!

Ayers Hearts Bombing

"Past crimes and present friendships"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-ayers-obama_thinkapr27,0,676479.story

Danube of Thought

This just in: Since 1979, Houghton Mifflin has been publishing a tract entitled "Mein Kampf," by one A. Hitler. Which goes to show that Mr. Hitler should certainly not be shunned in polite society.

Welcome to the mainstream, Mr. Hitler!

ben

"Welcome to the mainstream, Mr. bin Laden! You've been published!"

Right, and that other mainstream guy, the Unabomber, didn't he get published?

Foo Bar

So the newspapers decide who should be shunned? Is that what you are trying to say?

Rightly or wrongly, in reality they certainly have considerable influence in shaping perceptions about who is beyond the pale vs. who is sufficiently mainstream to be given Op-Ed real estate.

Or are you saying it isn't Obama's fault he had bad judgment on this, he was just following the Trib's lead?

I'm not claiming that my point about the Trib is utterly devastating for critics of Obama re:Ayers. I just think it's useful perspective when trying to gauge whether Obama's association with Ayers was truly egregious, shocking bad judgment as opposed to a relatively minor and commonplace bit of bad judgment. If you were following the story casually you might have gotten the impression that it was only Obama and far-left kooks who had anything to do with Ayers, and any folks with the "good sense" to endorse GWB would know enough not to give Ayers the highly valuable privilege of a Trib Op Ed.

Tricia, Charlotte, NC

The writer of this article was trying to analyze and perhaps find a link between Michelle and the term "education" Obama used.

I remembered seeing Sidley within the information his article provided so this is what I came up with. I hope it helps. It also shows this goes back many more years than Obama admits.

Michelle Obama worked for Sidley Austin, I found this here: http://womensissues.about.com/od/influentialwomen/p/MichelleObama.htm

Professional Career: After graduating from Harvard Law School, Michelle joined the law firm of Sidley Austin as an associate specializing in marketing and intellectual property. In 1988, a summer intern two years older by the name of Barack Obama came to work at the firm, and Michelle was assigned as his mentor. They married in 1992.
In 1991, the death of her father from complications related to MS caused Michelle to re-evaluate her life. She left corporate law to work in the public sector, first as assistant to Chicago mayor Richard M. Daly, later as the assistant commissioner of planning and development.

In the PDF file in the article, which is: http://www.cpef.org/pdf/annual_report01.pdf I found that Members of the Fund's Leadership Council included Sidley Austin Brown & Wood is listed on pages 9 & 10. The on e on page 9 displays it related to Virginia Aronson Managing Partner, the other on Page 10 is they are on the investor's list.

The Members of the Fund's Leadership Council It also includes Mr. John Ayers Executive Director of Leadership for Quality Education and Mr. Thomas Ayers Retired President & CEO of Commonwealth Edison.

The Annenberg Foundation was a "Regent" 1,000,000. and above Investor (page 10). We already know Obama was related to this in a big way.

Side note:

Pritzker Cousins Foundation is also listed as an Investor. There's the relation to Penny Pritzker of the Obama campaign.

Also, is the Wood in Sidley Austin Brown Wood the Wood in Wood's Foundation? I believe so.

PeterUK

"He was a prof at UIC and hadn't been considered dangerous for decades."

An educationalist is probably more dangerous than an incompetent terrorist.

pagar

"a connection to the Palestinians"

" The letter was published on the "Pastor's Page" of Sen. Obama's pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, by an activist named Ali M. Baghdadi. Originally printed March 6, 2007, in the Palestine Times, a "pro-Palestinian newspaper published in London", Ali M. Baghdadi "labels Israel an 'apartheid' regime and claims the Jewish state worked on an 'ethnic bomb' that kills 'blacks and Arabs'," Klein wrote."

"Who would have guessed that the same Ali M. Baghdadi who published the Arab Journal, and who wrote the vile letter published by Sen. Obama's anti-American, hate-spouting pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, would turn out to be a good friend to Tony Rezko, currently on trial in federal court for corruption?"

"Who would have guessed that the same Palestinian-American Ali M. Baghdadi, who accompanied Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan to Mali in 1997, and served as his Middle East advisor, was only one-degree of separation from Sen. Obama?"

"On April 26, 2008, the Chicago Sun-Times published a list of people who helped to bail indicted political fixer Antoin "Tony" Rezko out of jail a week ago. On that list are Ali M. Baghdadi and Darlene Bagdadi, who put up a "two-story retail building in Chicago" as surety."

Article

PeterUK

"I want all those who are in an uproar about Ayers to state their position on Oliver North"

Would have made a great president.

ben

"trying to gauge whether Obama's association with Ayers was truly egregious, shocking bad judgment as opposed to a relatively minor and commonplace bit of bad judgment. "

Yeah Foo Bar, interesting quandary...and just two months ago we were discussing whether Obama was truly illuminated by a burning bush, was he the uniter, the supra-racial, the chosen one.
Now its about the degree to which he consorted with terrorists and America haters.
Different playing field, huh?

sylvia

"Sylvia, just as a technical point, in my professional opinion as a computer security expert, it wouldn't be hard at all."

Ah hah! I don't do hardly anything financial on the internet, so I don't even know how this donation business is done. But I imagine just generate a list of fake credit card numbers and take the money out of thousands of fake accounts in Venezuela shell banks in which the fake accounts are generated, transferred $2,000 money in, transferred $2,000 money out, and then destroyed and then repeated. It's all just running a simple computer program. This could be done without the Obama campaign knowledge even. Could be weird but it's also weird if Hugo is just sitting back and being passive in this election. I wonder what the laws are that would allow the Feds to investigate just whose credit card donated to whom.

Chris

D(o)T,
"It is my fervent hope that the Foo Bars of this world will continue to trumpet for the next six months their belief that Ayers is "mainstream," and that the oleaginous Mr. Obama's relationship with him is of no concern."

You can fold or play the hand you're dealt. It's all they got at this point.

PeterUK,
"An educationalist is probably more dangerous than an incompetent terrorist."

A "typical" wackademic, in other words.

FooBar,
Are you a paid Messiah op or serving an internship?

Danube of Thought

"...commonplace bit of bad judgment."

Yeah. Altogether too commonplace for this strange poseur, and altogether too commonplace for any aspirant to the presidency. And the increasingly strained contortions of his groupies in defending his radical left-wing connections is becoming more comical by the day.

Alert readers will no doubt inform us of the US publishers of such other mainstreamers as Che Guevara, Karl Marx, Daniel Ortega, Lyndon Larouche, David Duke and a host of others who should never, ever be shunned by polite society--get yourself published, and enter the mainstream of American political thought.

Foo Bar, where were you when Barry Goldwater and Robert Bork needed you?

ben

"He was a prof at UIC and hadn't been considered dangerous for decades."

By whom? Is there a dangerousness meter and/or expiration date for terrorists? Is it published? Does he have a certificate?

Danube of Thought

Glen Greenwald locates the mainstream for us:

"This leads to an obvious and overarching point: If Robert Bork was so far out of the mainstream in 1988 as to be unfit to serve on the Supreme Court, how can Sam Alito be in the mainstream in 2006?"

Robert Bork and Samuel Alito: outside the mainstream.

Bill Ayers: in the mainstream.

Bring it on...

PeterUK

"Is there a dangerousness meter and/or expiration date for terrorists? Is it published? Does he have a certificate?"

Uni Professor,11 on the Dangerometer.

Chris

He'd make a good (likely?) Secretary of Education for Obama.

ben

More on Obama's "new type of politics"

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/patriotroom/2008/apr/27/obama_got_8_000_per_month_in_return_for_political_favors

Someone better qualified can make into a real link

ben

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/patriotroom/2008/apr/27/obama_got_8_000_per_month
_in_return_for_political_favors

Jane

My goodness, Fox News is showing a demented Jeremiah Wright singing and screaming at the NAACP dinner. He's incomprehensible. Compare him with the 60 Minutes interview I just saw of Scalia, and you will never take a left turn again.

ben

Ok last try..or go to redstate

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/patriotroom/
2008/apr/27/obama_got_8_000_per_month_in_return
_for_political_favors

sylvia

http://www.scottfish.com/barack-obama-internet-donations/

"Here’s some important stats:

-Obama had 385,000 new contributors for a total of more than 1 million donors.
-
-All told, Obama has raised $193 million during his yearlong bid for the White House.

-The Obama campaign said it raised $45 million through the Internet in February ($55 M total).

-Clinton reported raising $6 million online, and a total of $34 million for the primary in February. "


So some facts. "The NCES (National Center for Education Statistics) gives the number of first-time freshmen enrolling in fall 2004 as 2,630,000. This includes both 2-year and 4-year colleges." So guessing about 10 mill students total. One mill donated to Obama. One out of 10 donating to Obama? When many students can't even be bothered to take half their exams? Of course add in the non-students and African American voters, etc. But I don't know. Seems a little high to me.

pagar

"Why do we keep refighting the Viet Nam war after all these years? Although I was part of it, I'm getting sick of "My Generation" and its endless, pointless obsession with 40 year old battles. It's not 1968 anymore, people. No wonder the Barackers want to move on."

No one I know wants to refight the Viet Nam War. What I and most of the veterans I know want is for every every single American to know that we did our job; the US military and our allies did not fail. We were sold out by Anti America Americans like Jane Fonda. Ramsay Clark, Walter Cronkite and John Kerry. There is no chance the North Vietnamese would have been declared the winner of that conflict without the aid of the Anti America Americans.

The efforts of the Anti America Americans continue today at an even strong pace. It is no accident that John Kerry supports Obama.
They both have the same goals.

MikeS

What happened to the old Obama? He was a new style politician who transcended race and partisanship. Remember the Obama who was going to heal our souls and change our mindset? He was a magical politician who could bring people together just by talking to them.

Where did this slimy snake oil salesmen with all the scumbag friends come from?

glasater

Jane--I'm watching/listening to Wright on Fox and what he is saying is indeed "different".

He just set back Brocko another ten points.

Danube of Thought

The revelation is just beginning, MikeS. This is gonna be lots and lots of fun.

Chris

Wright is going off the deep end. Holy cow! Sounds like carefully couched separatism.

Jane

The most interesting thing about Wright's speech is that he preaches how blacks are different, and need different education, and different understanding, etc etc - while his protege is preaching one America. Or he used to. How did that come about.

Maybe it's the "different is not divisive" thing - except he is so divisive.

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