When Is A Maverick Not A Maverick?

When is a maverick not a maverick?  When an Attack Dem is fantasizing out loud about how to defeat McCain:

McCain is hardly the most devious politician on the national stage. But there's plenty of evidence that his MO is to get outsized credit for a very small number of mavericky stands while spending about 98% of his political life doing all the usual things that career politicians do. He hangs with lobbyists, he does favors for big contributors, he waffles on positions that might hurt him, he panders to constituencies whose votes he needs, and he very rarely takes a politically risky stand on anything. In other words, he's just a normal pol with a really good PR shop.

Let's see - just recently and offhand, immigration reform nearly scuttled his Presidential run and the Gang of 14 bipartisan team-up to prevent a filibuster of judges annoyed partisans on both sides.  Going back a bit, McCain-Feingold got one Republican vote in the Senate (IIRC [OK, not really]) and is still loathed by his party; McCain proposed a greenhouse gas cap and trade plan in 2003, and promoted the creation of the 9/11 Commission, both to howls from Republicans. 

Lots more Maverick coverage in this multi-part home state profile.

I would be delighted to see a similar list of Obama's efforts to reach across the aisle and deliver on a new kind of politics.

DAWN BREAKS OVER MARBLEHEAD:  I see through Kevin drum's sinister scheme!  Every time someone presents McCain's list of bipartisan "achievements", two moderates become interested in his candidacy and three Republicans have aneurysms.  We can't afford much more progress on this topic.

Comments

[Thomas Collins]

This is why I think that B_O is not as "toasty" or "crotounny" as some other JOMers. Substantially all of MSM is going to be completely behind B_O (the coverage of the Ketchup Queen's Boy Toy and Mr. Internet Inventor will seem positively balanced by comparison). Coming up soon will been some pseudo-elite university psycho-shrink with an analysis of how McCain has impulse control problems that could lead to rash decisions.

[Thomas Collins]

Add "think he is" to the first sentence of my post. I didn't mean to suggest that JOMers are "toasty" or "crotounny." :-))

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Who is the tall, dark stranger there?

Obama is the name.

Ridin' the trail to who knows where,

Luck is his companion,

Gamblin' is his game.

[DebinNC]

McCain the maverick favorably compares to Obama the gelding and Hillary the jenny.

[SteveMG]

For someone to claim that McCain hasn't shown political guts by going against his constituents ("very small number of mavericky stands") is risible.

I've got the dent marks in my walls from thrown objects after he did so as evidence.

The overall number may indeed be small (how does one quantify maverickness anyway?); but the issues on which he showed his independence were quite large (and so are the dents in my walls).

And compared to Obama, they are infinitely larger.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Sol Stern says we shouldn't be asking Obama about where Charming Billy has been, but about where he might be going with our children:

Ayers’s politics have hardly changed since his Weatherman days. He still boasts about working full-time to bring down American capitalism and imperialism. This time, however, he does it from his tenured perch as Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois, Chicago. Instead of planting bombs in public buildings, Ayers now works to indoctrinate America’s future teachers in the revolutionary cause, urging them to pass on the lessons to their public school students.

Indeed, the education department at the University of Illinois is a hotbed for the radical education professoriate. As Ayers puts it in one of his course descriptions, prospective K–12 teachers need to “be aware of the social and moral universe we inhabit and . . . be a teacher capable of hope and struggle, outrage and action, a teacher teaching for social justice and liberation.” Ayers’s texts on the imperative of social-justice teaching are among the most popular works in the syllabi of the nation’s ed schools and teacher-training institutes. One of Ayers’s major themes is that the American public school system is nothing but a reflection of capitalist hegemony. Thus, the mission of all progressive teachers is to take back the classrooms and turn them into laboratories of revolutionary change.

....Ayers’s influence on what is taught in the nation’s public schools is likely to grow in the future. Last month, he was elected vice president for curriculum of the 25,000-member American Educational Research Association (AERA), the nation’s largest organization of education-school professors and researchers.

[Bill in AZ]

Right on que, and minutes too late to make TM's post, McCain pulls one of his classic conservative-artery-popping Maverick moves...

``Never again will a disaster of this nature be handled in this terrible and disgraceful manner,'' McCain said after a walking tour of the Lower Ninth Ward, a predominantly black neighborhood that was devastated by Katrina. ``History will judge this president,'' he said. ``This was an unacceptable scenario.'

And, of course, MSM repeats all of the standard canards that have become fact through repetition. I volunteer in search and rescue operations, and this one was done well at all levels in all areas, including the local levels where the hurricane actually hit - right up until the New Orleans levees failed many hours after the hurricane passed. Then the local response failed on a massive scale, partly due to the fact that many people at all levels thought New Orleans had dodged the bullet.

[ParseThis]

I take back everything I've said. McCain will make a fine president.

[windansea]

He hangs with lobbyists, he does favors for big contributors, he waffles on positions that might hurt him, he panders to constituencies whose votes he needs

of course he's a horse of course of course

he very rarely takes a politically risky stand on anything.

oops! surge

[JB]

"oops! surge"

The ugly truth (to base conservatives like myself) about McCain's nomination is that he openly and unequivocally staked his campaign on the success of the surge ("I'd rather lose the campaign than the war") while others (Romney included) did a bit of the old dance around it.

That's balls and character, and nothing in Obama's paltry record approaches it.

[rhodan]

This is the point, isn't it. parse this, when he undermines conservatives attempts to reverse the stealth control of the judiciary that began with Brennan, 50 years ago. When he lets an independent commission
stocked with professional hacks, milquetoast
politicos tied to Saudi interests, serve as a greek chorus, prevent timely information on likely terrorist personnel & strategies (and "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US," doesn't count; that's as particular as " Water is wet, likely to rain". Then you can tolerate him. When he's defending us from retreating from Wahhabis and Iranian
agents, not so much.
Look a year before Katrina, Maestrpredicted that New Orleans would go under water, to a degree, that you couldn't reach the pumps, to dredge out the city. "The saucer and bowl" problem, formed by the confluence of Lake Poncetrain, the Mississippi Delta and the Gulf of Mexico, That's not likely to change anytime soon, no matter what resources are thrown at N. Orleans. This was before we knew of the criminally mismanaged levie boards, that refused to actually shore up the levies. Even after the storm hit, the expectation was of the toxic stew that would linger in the Gulf of Mexico, that shipments would be blocked from getting food and supplies. Did I imagine all that.

Another bit of stupidity, comes from Errol Morris, the man behind S.O.P. yet another
wallow in Abu Ghraib. This nutbar really thinks that Abu Ghraib really helped re-elect the President, whereas in reality it made our operations in Iraq and in the Arab world, immeasurably worse, by allowing the
region's strongmen to turn attention from their failings, including practices at the many Mukharabats 'abu quarib' against the
U.S, He also sheds tears for Saddam's execution, saying it was humiliation, where
more likely it was justice, for the hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Shias

[rhodan]

This is the point, isn't it. parse this, when he undermines conservatives attempts to reverse the stealth control of the judiciary that began with Brennan, 50 years ago. When he lets an independent commission
stocked with professional hacks, milquetoast
politicos tied to Saudi interests, serve as a greek chorus, prevent timely information on likely terrorist personnel & strategies (and "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US," doesn't count; that's as particular as " Water is wet, likely to rain". Then you can tolerate him. When he's defending us from retreating from Wahhabis and Iranian
agents, not so much.
Look a year before Katrina, Maestrpredicted that New Orleans would go under water, to a degree, that you couldn't reach the pumps, to dredge out the city. "The saucer and bowl" problem, formed by the confluence of Lake Poncetrain, the Mississippi Delta and the Gulf of Mexico, That's not likely to change anytime soon, no matter what resources are thrown at N. Orleans. This was before we knew of the criminally mismanaged levie boards, that refused to actually shore up the levies. Even after the storm hit, the expectation was of the toxic stew that would linger in the Gulf of Mexico, that shipments would be blocked from getting food and supplies. Did I imagine all that.

Another bit of stupidity, comes from Errol Morris, the man behind S.O.P. yet another
wallow in Abu Ghraib. This nutbar really thinks that Abu Ghraib really helped re-elect the President, whereas in reality it made our operations in Iraq and in the Arab world, immeasurably worse, by allowing the
region's strongmen to turn attention from their failings, including practices at the many Mukharabats 'abu quarib' against the
U.S, He also sheds tears for Saddam's execution, saying it was humiliation, where
more likely it was justice, for the hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Shias

[BumperStickerist]

I think Barack Obama could be a modern day Cincinnatus - except for the whole 'farmer' thing. My understanding is that Harvard doesn't have a 4H club.

-

[Danube of Thought]

"Substantially all of MSM is going to be completely behind B_O (the coverage of the Ketchup Queen's Boy Toy and Mr. Internet Inventor will seem positively balanced by comparison)."

The MSM were as much behing Gore and Kerry as it was possible to be, and they ridiculed Reagan without mercy. The effect of the MSM in today's politics is hugely overrated--as, for the matter of that, is money. Field Marshal Obama outspent the bejeezus out of Hillary in Ohio and again in Pennsylvania, and he got routed in both places.

There will be much learned by the electorate about the young Field Marshal in the coming six months. I venture to say that not a single yet-undiscovered fact will be favorable to him.

[hit and run]

DoT:
I venture to say that not a single yet-undiscovered fact will be favorable to him.

Well, there's a thought.

Fun Facts about Obama

Like the Chuck Norris facts or Fred Thompson Facts

Only, well, dare I say it....cynical, divisive, and distracting.

Oh gosh, that could be fun.

[JB]

"Substantially all of MSM is going to be completely behind B_O (the coverage of the Ketchup Queen's Boy Toy and Mr. Internet Inventor will seem positively balanced by comparison)"

There is a point of diminishing returns with increasingly biased coverage, as we've seen with Globaloney hysteria. The trick is to be just biased enough to fool the rubes into believing you're being fair. Even an imbecile will recognize the piling on at a certain point.

[Syl]

That's balls and character

And that's why McCain will have my full support! He's an honorable man, a hero, who loves and serves America. To him, America is more important than John McCain.

I really don't care that there are positions of his I disagree with.

[Porchlight]

Speaking of Fred Thompson, he's on Hannity tonight. First interview since he dropped out of the race.

[SteveMG]

Syl:
I really don't care that there are positions of his I disagree with

That's exactly my view.

He's teed me off not because he wanted to impress the liberal press or inside Washington type. He did it because he believed it was the right policy regardless of the blowback he would get.

From his fellow conservatives or the liberal press.

E.g., amnesty and the surge respectively.

Why would someone who, according to the narrative, is more interested in impressing the press or the beltway Brahmins than conservatives support the surge? The press was overwhelmingly against it and so was much of the public.

He put his career on the line there. If the surge fails and Iraq blows up completely, his national career is kaput. Over. Finished.

The man has guts. And everything he does is, in my mind, driven by his love for this country.

I believe that absolutely.

[Foo Bar]

McCain-Feingold got one Republican vote in the Senate (IIRC)

YDNRC. 11 Republicans voted for it, for a 60-40 final vote. Also note that the vote to end debate got 68 yeas.

How hard would that have been to check?

[Anon]

Bumperstickerist-

Can't we just call him-

Cleveland?

[hit and run]

Sorry, On Topic:

Red Wings Suck

Oh, wait, did I say On Topic?

Silly me.

Of course I meant, ON Topic.

As it always is.

But especially since Game 1 is tonight.

I'm sorry -- I didn't mean to offend anyone.

Well, unless you're a Red Wings fan.

Muuuwahhahaahhahahahahhhaaa!!!

[Jane]

Okay, I'm official on record saying that the new "next/previous" comments thingy makes this place caw like a snail. It's a big not a feature.

[hit and run]

Me too, Jane.

[SteveMG]

How hard would that have been to check?

Can you point out one substantive issue - one major stance - that Obama's held where he broke ranks with his party and joined with the Republicans?

For someone who likes to talk about his ability to transcend the partisan divide and bring disparate groups together, he's got nothing to show that he's able to do it.

He's in fact the antithesis of a maverick. At least when he's not reading Ted Sorenson written speeches off a teleprompter.

[Foo Bar]

Can you point out one substantive issue - one major stance - that Obama's held where he broke ranks with his party and joined with the Republicans?

See my comments in this thread for some examples.

[SteveMG]

See my comments in this thread for some examples.

Sorry, I don't think those are substantive issues. Do you?

Certainly you don't think they're in any way comparable to the legislation that McCain sponsored that transgressed party views.

I'm quite sure we can find occasional votes by Ted Kennedy where he voted against the Democratic majority. Yet no one considers him a bipartisan figure of note.

Try again.

[Jane]

caw like a snail. It's a big not a feature.

Sheesh and not a drop to drink.

[clarice]

Kill the next and previous please..
I can't find anything.

[SteveMG]

Obama's vote, against his party's stance, in favor of an amendment to have greater transparency in earmarks is considered a substantive difference with his party?

Is he against the Snail Darter Protection Act too?

Gosh, these cynical times makes me want more.

[JM Hanes]

Clarice & Jane: I dittoed those sentiments at the tail end of some other thread somewhere.

[PeterUK]

There is only one Maverick,James Garner.

[JM Hanes]

Finally found the comment -- but the hotlink for it now just takes you to the original item page!

[clarice]

Down with "next" and "previous"!!!!

[SteveMG]

Down with "next" and "previous"!!!!

No pasaran!

Or should it be "Hemos pasado"?

Anyway, get rid of them.

[hit and run]

PUK:
There is only one Maverick,James Garner.

You are absolutely right, of course.

But I am on record as a big fan of Maverick the movie with Mel Gibson in the lead. I would link to that record as recorded in a JOM comment, but for the Next/Previous hell that we have now entered ... it extends to historical threads as well.

Yippee!

[HoosierHoops]

Hoopster update:
we have been waiting here for a week in Oceanside, Ca. for Jordan to arrive from ighIraq.
They have delayed him till friday night at 10 pm. I've extended our stay for a week.
This has really hurt many families that can't stay another week and mrs. hoopster is out of her mind.
We are staying another week, we have 10 family members here so the expense is quite
high.. Personally, And this is not bragging
but we rented a 1.8 million dollar beach house to greet Jordan at..that was alright for a week but 2 weeks and changing 10 plane tickets is killing the hoopster..
( This place is great.. It's 3 stories and the deck on the roof overlooks the ocean..I've got a sunburn already..So this is how the other side lives )
Bastards..hahaha
I'll post again when we pick up Jordan from Camp P. friday night.

[Jane]

We are thinking of you Hooserhoops. Have a blast, and enjoy the accommodations!

[hit and run]

HH, thanks for checking in!

You give Joran a hug and a kiss for hit and run.

[hit and run]

Sorr, Jordan, of course.

Just my natural aversion to Democrats, ya know?

heh, kidding -- just trying to get the post in fast to beat Jane...oh, wait...Damn, she's fast.

[Porchlight]

In poking around a bit in the Typepad knowledge base I see that comment pagination is considered a "new">http://everything.typepad.com/blog/2007/09/new-comment-fea.html">"new feature" in TypePad. (Looks like it was rolled out last year but it took awhile to update all the blogs.)

Maximum of 50 comments per page. No indication that the pagination can be turned off, but maybe "Advanced" users have that option.

If that's the case and TM needs some $ to upgrade and turn this off, I will be happy to pitch in. Why anyone would consider this a "feature" is beyond me.

[clarice]

Give him a hug and kiss from me and a handshake from Hit who must be drunk already.

[Porchlight]

Best wishes for a wonderful reunion, hoosierhoops! Hope he isn't delayed much longer...

[boris]

Why anyone would consider this a "feature" is beyond me

Really. it doesn't even work with the Recent Comments feature. Great idea, kill the good feature with the bad bug.

[boris]

Yikes Italiacto!

[Pofarmer]

I volunteer in search and rescue operations, and this one was done well at all levels in all areas,

Well, considering that the National Gaurd considers it one of the "most successful search and rescue operations of all time" there certainly is a disconnect there.

[Foo Bar]

Sorry, I don't think those are substantive issues. Do you?

Yes, I think earmark reform, class action lawsuits, and merit pay are substantive issuers. I'm not sure why you don't.

You didn't ask me if Obama was McCain's equal in terms of breaking with his party. I concede that he is not (taking the long view of McCain's career, although he's done some backsliding on tax issues in recent years). Given McCain's (sometimes) centrist tendencies, I am looking forward to getting a new president regardless of who it turns out to be.

That said, your suggestion that Obama never breaks with the Dems on anything of signficance and has nothing to show that he can transcend the partisan divide was a definite overstatement.

[hit and run]

Yeah, I'll be the first* to say it: I'm bitterly clinging to memories of pre-Next/Previous JOM days.

-------------
*unless someone else has said it on another thread. I sure as hell ain't going back there to check, having to navigated through the fuggin next/previous mess.

[Pofarmer]

O.K., I'm gonna pile on.

The next/previous thing sucks.

[Ann]

Catching up on the threads, I have a few notes:

*Just got back from my daughter's Lacrosse game and they are still undefeated! WooHOO (Who cares...I know). Lacrosse has great cheers like: "Sticks Up"!! (My personal fave..nevermind!):)

*Bgates is brilliant. "SwiftQuoted" should be in the dictionary.

*Hit, I thought your VIMH was the best yet. For those that might have missed it due to "Previous" or "Next" it is a must read!!!!!

*Down with "next" and "previous"!!!! PUH-LEEZE!!

*And finally, HH, you and your family have been in my thoughts all week and will be for weeks to come. God Bless.

[hit and run]

Clarice:
Hit who must be drunk already.

Don't listen to her, HH -- give him a hug and a kiss for me.

I am not ashamed to think it entirely appropriate for what he has done for us.

I didn't even say on the lips.

But you do whatever you hoosiers do to show the love and affection appropriate for such an occasion.

::hic::

[MayBee]

Hoosier! I'm sorry the joy has been delayed, but I'm sooo happy for you that you're able to wait for him.
Give him a big hug and kiss from me, too. And you should probably, you know, post pictures of him on the beach and stuff. :-)

[hit and run]

Ann:
*Hit, I thought your VIMH was the best yet. For those that might have missed it due to "Previous" or "Next" it is a must read!!!!!

Well, since that comment was the last one on the second page -- and we are now moving to page three -- no matter how much I want to thank you for the comment -- no matter how flattered I am at your description -- no matter how much personally it brings me joy to read it -- due to the next/previous abomination I am afraid that I can't thank you for it on principle.

No matter how much gratefulness I feel.

I just can't do it.

[MikeS]

Hoopster,
Give Jordan a Hooah for me too!

[Danube of Thought]

"How hard would that have been to check?"

I suppose it wouldn't have been hard at all. The time to check, instead of simply saying "IIRC," is when the difference would be at least arguably significant. The difference between one and eleven GOP votes on this matter is entirely insignificant when you're discussing whether the man has frequently departed from his party's line. He has; Obama has not; if you want to frame the debate as to which of these propositions is or is not true you're going to be flayed alive if you're on the demonstrably wrong side factually.

Poor Foo Bar's hopelessly in love--there's no helping him.

[ben]

"Can you point out one substantive issue - one major stance - that Obama's held where he broke ranks with his party and joined with the Republicans?"

Powerline thinks this would be a great question to ask the Obamamessiah himself, with the implication of how can you be a uniter if all your positions are completely partisan.

McCain could use that in a debate too: "Here are five instances where I stood by my principles in contradiction to my party's position. Now you name the five times you have done that".

Obama would have trouble naming 5 times he disagreed with DailyKos.

[MikeS]

This new navigation feature reminds me of a house I once had where I could control the hot tub from inside the house ... but not from the $#%&*$#*& HOT TUB!

Blows baby chunks!

[SteveMG]

That said, your suggestion that Obama never breaks with the Dems on anything of signficance and has nothing to show that he can transcend the partisan divide was a definite overstatement

Where has Senator Obama succeeded in leading his party in a direction that it didn't wish to go? That is the true measure of a maverick, of an independent politician who believes that sometimes the party asks too much and must be opposed.

And succeeds in doing so.

Words, powerful as they are, aren't enough. Campaign promises (from either side), as I'm sure you agree, have to be taken with a great deal of scepticism (Note: Obama's not pulling out of Iraq; he's not raising capital gains taxes; and he's not going into Pakistan).

For me, you've shown no evidence where Obama lead (sponsored legislation, not simply voting for an amendment) in enacting legislation that was opposed by a majority of his party.

Second, if you think those are substantive issues (I agree that taking on the NEA on merit pay potentially is; but you would have to admit that promises are not evidence of success) you and I have a fundamentally different view on what substantive is.

Finally, it's apparent to me that the fact that Obama suffered no political damage or criticism from the netroots over these meager votes is evidence of how substance free his votes were.

Everyone who follows politics knows when a public figure transcends party orthodoxy on a major issue. When that occurs, howls of anger ensue from the party faithful. Nowhere has Obama engendered the animosity of the liberal community.

He gives a good speech; but that's all he's got to show us.

[Danube of Thought]

More about the John Judis analysis from Taranto:

"Is Barack Obama the next George McGovern? John Judis of The New Republic thinks so, and the Pennsylvania primary results bear him out:

"'If you look at Obama's vote in Pennsylvania, you begin to see the outlines of the old George McGovern coalition that haunted the Democrats during the '70s and '80s, led by college students and minorities. In Pennsylvania, Obama did best in college towns (60 to 40 percent in Penn State's Centre County) and in heavily black areas like Philadelphia.

"'Its ideology is very liberal. Whereas in the first primaries and caucuses, Obama benefited from being seen as middle-of-the-road or even conservative, he is now receiving his strongest support from voters who see themselves as 'very liberal.' In Pennsylvania, he defeated [Hillary] Clinton among 'very liberal' voters by 55 to 45 percent, but lost 'somewhat conservative' voters by 53 to 47 percent and moderates by 60 to 40 percent. In Wisconsin and Virginia, by contrast, he had done best against Clinton among voters who saw themselves as moderate or somewhat conservative.

"'Obama even seems to be acquiring the religious profile of the old McGovern coalition. In the early primaries and caucuses, Obama did very well among the observant. In Maryland, he defeated Clinton among those who attended religious services weekly by 61 to 31 percent. By contrast, in Pennsylvania, he lost to Clinton among these voters by 58 to 42 percent and did best among voters who never attend religious services, winning them by 56 to 44 percent. There is nothing wrong with winning over voters who are very liberal and who never attend religious services; but if they begin to become Obama's most fervent base of support, he will have trouble (to say the least) in November.'"

But hey--he's a maverick, right? I think the Kennedy family's Profile In Courage Award awaits him, in recognition of his gritty bucking of leftist orthodoxy.

Oh God, this is gonna be fun.

[Ann]

Hit, I think it was so good that it should be blogged on AT.

Porchlight,

"Well, considering that the National Gaurd considers it one of the "most successful search and rescue operations of all time" there certainly is a disconnect there."

I heard McCain's comments on the radio on the way home. I got mad at him all over again. Why can't he just be a leader and praise the millions of people that gave money and time to families from New Orleans. Praise the outstanding job of the incredible National Guard. Stop pandering and blaming Bush for a natural disaster . Put some of the blame on the Democrats in charge at the time. Sheesh, it made me sick.

I am one of a million volunteers that helped house, get jobs, pack schoolbags, feed, etc. here in Ohio alone. Maverick, not! Pandering Maverick, Yes!!!

[Jane]

Congrats to your daughter Ann. I'll pitch in to nix the upgrade too, happily. Does TM even know about it? At this point it's too much trouble to follow more than one thread. And that sucks.

BTW I thought Fred was fab on H&C. He's a superstar in my book!

[Porchlight]

Here's a workaround for the next/previous problem:

1. Go to the thread you want to view

2. Scroll down as far and hit Preview. All the comments will load.

It still suggs, because you won't have all the functionality of the normal thread view, and you'll only be able to see the comments, not the original post. But at least you can view all the comments w/o hitting Next.

[Porchlight]

Oops, that should be "scroll down as far as you can and hit Preview."

[hit and run]

Oh gosh!!! This wasn't supposed to happen.

Scalia defends Bush v. Gore on 60 Minutes. I didn't mean to cause him to have to do this with my piece.

(CBS) People who believe the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision giving the 2000 presidential election to George W. Bush was politically motivated should just get over it, says Justice Antonin Scalia.

[boris]

nothing to show that he can transcend the partisan divide was a definite overstatement

If a few minor votes count then just about every senator has transcended the partisan divide rendering the phrase meaningless.

[Porchlight]

Ann, I completely agree with you on Maverick's Katrina comments, but I think the comment you were responding to may have been Pofarmer's, not mine. Totally understandable with this fudged up Next/Previous business!

[Rick Ballard]

"Sheesh, it made me sick."

Ann,

I'm checking into the cost of a five year supply of clothespins. Enduring vanity backed by truly mediocre intelligence is going to be very trying. At least we won't have to have a debate on who is smarter.

That's a very, very small blessing.

[boris]

Linking to specific comments seems to be no longer possible. What's that all about?

[Ann]

Thanks Jane.

Thanks Porchlight.

Sorry Pofarmer, for my mix up.
Posted by: Pofarmer | April 24, 2008 at 09:30 PM

Rick, Clothespins Indeed!

TM, stop this madness if you can. I am not complaining. I love JOM!

[hit and run]

AAAAAAHHHHHGGGGG!!!!

You know what's worse than this next/previous carp?

Obama just appeared on my tv.

I think I swooned and fainted.

[hit and run]

You don't come into my house uninvited, Obama.

Not without me putting a shoe through my tv.

When's that stimulus check supposed to come?

[SteveMG]

In defense of Obama, his supporters can cite his vote against the Iraq force authorization as evidence of his heterodox party views.

The majority of Democrats in the Senate voted in favor of the authorization (29); Obama was in the minority (23) (Roll call vote).

So, here we have a substantive vote where he broke with party ranks and showed some maverick abilities.

Darn it, I'm attacking my own arguments.

Hate when I do that.

[Soylent Red]

TM:

Make

NEXT>>

it

NEXT>>

stop.

NEXT>>

Please.

<

[hit and run]

SteveMG:
In defense of Obama, his supporters can cite his vote against the Iraq force authorization as evidence of his heterodox party views.

You mean the Illinois state senate voted on Iraq?

[Foo Bar]

The time to check, instead of simply saying "IIRC," is when the difference would be at least arguably significant. The difference between one and eleven GOP votes on this matter is entirely insignificant when you're discussing whether the man has frequently departed from his party's line

Not when the point of the post is to portray the degree to which McCain is a maverick. I don't deny that he is one, but if he had been the only Republican to vote in favor of that bill, that would have been a lot more risky and a lot more defiant of his party than the reality of having the political cover of 10 other Republican moderates voting with him.

If TM just didn't have the time to look it up, he could have gotten the maverick point across and avoided spreading misinformation by saying something along the lines of "he went against the majority of his party on McCain-Feingold".

[SteveMG]

You mean the Illinois state senate voted on Iraq?

That's right, he wasn't in the Senate back then. I had forgotten that he's only been there since 2004 (well 2005 really; he was elected in 2004) and the vote was two years earlier.

So, I didn't undermine my own argument.

Thanks for the embarassing correction.

[DM]

Comments need fixing. Why do I have to read about everyone's families? Can't there be a thread for all that?

[Ann]

Operation Chaos Update : (You have to love this.!!)

Pelosi, Dean, and Reid — Oh my!

[JM Hanes]

HH: Many thanks for the update. The wait must be absolutely crazy-making. On this end, we just get to keep imagining your joyful reunion a little longer. I'm so grateful for young men like Jordan -- and their parents!

[Soylent Red]

Thank him for me Hoosier.

Glad he's back.

[Ann]

I want to ditto Maybee, by the way:

Give him a big hug and kiss from me, too. And you should probably, you know, post pictures of him on the beach and stuff. :-)

Posted by: MayBee | April 24, 2008 at 09:44 PM

LOL

[JM Hanes]

DM: "Why do I have to read about everyone's families?"

You don't. There are like eleventy seven gazillion blogs out there just hoping you'll stop by.

[Ann]

DM, I am sorry you have no sticks!

[vnjagvet]

Hoops:

Sincere thanks from another old vet who deeply appreciates and respects your son's service and his family's support.

God Bless you all.

And that money you are spending for the beach house will probably be some of the most appreciated money you spent in your life. Have a great time.

[SteveMG]

Well, Obama has agreed to appear on Fox News Sunday.

He's courageously breaking new ground here. A true profile in courage (but remember to shoot his profile from the left side and not the right; makes his ears look too big).

Well, as Bill Ayers would say, a march of a thousand miles starts with a single match.

Er, step.

[charlie]

Tom, either read Newsweek or Obama's wikipedia page and you'll see that Obama has reached across party lines going back to the Illinois state Senate. In short, he has successfully worked with Dick Lugar, Tom Coburn, and other Republicans in the U.S. Senate and Newsweek did an article not too long ago about his bi-partisan work in the IL state senate. Just google it, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

As far as McCain is concerned, he WAS a maverick, NOW he is not and has moved to the right almost as fast as Mitt Romney did over the last couple of years. Even on immigration Tom, McCain has stated that his own comprehensive bill is on the back burner and if it was brought up to a vote today, he would NOT vote for it. That's a flip-flop.

There's many more, as Free Republic has pointed out in recent months. And those flip-flops, with the exception of climate change, are a move to the right and does smack of political pandering (i.e. seeking out pastor Hagee and another radical pastor whose name escapes me, reconciling with the late Jerry Falwell, being for Bush's tax cuts in 2006 when he voted against them years earlier, etc).

Like I said, he is no longer a maverick; he is a political opportunist, doing whatever it takes to get the republican nomination for president.

And by the way, being part of the "Gang of 14" does not make McCain a "maverick." If that's the case, then all 14 senators who took part should be considered "mavericks."

[glasater]

HH--God Bless on your reunion with your precious son.

Let me add my sincere thanks for his service.

[Ann]

Vnjagvet, Well done!

HH, if you give us an address, I would love to send a gift basket. Can someone figure out how HH can give us an address without the trolls finding out?

[DM]

Okay JM Hanes underwear India CIA CFO guy. You win. Don't be embarrassed when they explain why age is so important. Personal things are that and dealing with someone who doesn't understand that is................... what comments are for, so enjoy sharing.

JOM was good for some politics. No, they aren't equals.

Bye.

[glasater]

McCain has stated that his own comprehensive bill is on the back burner and if it was brought up to a vote today, he would NOT vote for it

Charlie--I'll bet McCain at this point would not even vote for McCain/Feingold.

[JM Hanes]

But back to Tom's original question: When is a maverick not a maverick? When he gets mixed up with a Shadow Government.

I love watching just how hard the Dems are already struggling to cast McCain as Bush Lite. Ron Klain assures himself that McCain cannot escape the historically inevitable shadow of the sitting Prez. Then, apparently at a loss for actual substances, he posits Bush as Clinton Lite, unable to resist meddling in the election in a last ditch attempt to salvage a legacy for himself in some otherwise unspecified fashion. He polishes McCain off with a fine rhetorical catcall: "He can run, but he can't hide!" And there you have it: state of the art partisan punditry, and oh what a state it's in.

[JM Hanes]

"Okay JM Hanes underwear India CIA CFO guy."

LOL! This must be the same space cadet who stalked off in a similarly nonsensical huff a couple of months ago. Or it's his brother Daryl. Or his other brother Daryl.

[bgates]

As far as McCain is concerned, he WAS a maverick, NOW he is not
We need to know what he is like NOW. TODAY. 2004. In the Illinois State Senate.

Newsweek did an article not too long ago about his bi-partisan work
How lovely for them. Here's an equally bipartisan news source:
Durbin and Obama Join Bipartisan Group of Senators in Calling for FTA Rail Study
...
Other Senators signing on to today’s letter include: Senators Evan Bayh (D-IN), Robert Casey (D-PA), Hillary Clinton (D-NY), Christopher Dodd (D-CT), John Kerry (D-MA), Edward Kennedy (D-MA), Joe Lieberman (I-CT), Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Charles Schumer (D-NY), and Arlen Specter (R-PA).

[JM Hanes]

charlie:

"As far as McCain is concerned, he WAS a maverick, NOW he is not and has moved to the right almost as fast as Mitt Romney did over the last couple of years."

Oddly enough, the political analysts over at the New York Times seem to think that As Democrats Fight, McCain Seeks the Middle .

[vnjagvet]

Ann:

I'll go in with you if you find out where hoops is.

Clarice and Rick have my email address.

[charlie]

Glasater, you're right. And what the MSM is ignoring is that he has exceed primary campaign spending limits already: "According to published reports, since late-February Republican presidential candidate John McCain has exceeded federally mandated limits on campaign spending. According to some bloggers, that makes McCain a possible felon." (That's from Blogher.com, BTW).

[charlie]

Glasater, you're right. And what the MSM is ignoring is that he has exceed primary campaign spending limits already: "According to published reports, since late-February Republican presidential candidate John McCain has exceeded federally mandated limits on campaign spending. According to some bloggers, that makes McCain a possible felon." (That's from Blogher.com, BTW).

[ben]

"In defense of Obama, his supporters can cite his vote against the Iraq force authorization as evidence of his heterodox party views"

Obama was not even a US Senator, at most he stated an opinion against authorization. This whole thing about how he was right and Hillary was wrong is more BS. Nobody knows how he would have voted had he been privy to the same informations Hillary was.

[charlie]

JM Haynes, I don't know if you read that NY Times article you linked, but it talks about the growing sector of the electorate being in "the middle," and that McCain is trying to appeal to them in his campaign.

I don't know what you thought the article was trying to say, but one thing it did not say was that McCain himself is "in the middle" of his party now. Like I said before, he was a moderate Republican. Now he's a full-blown conservative. And I don't have a problem with that, as long as he doesn't pull a bait-and-switch as President (should he get elected) and go back to his moderate ways.

[clarice]

TM, I love you. I love your blog.I love most of the posters here. My life has been a series of unavoidable but perfectly horrid distractions and frustrations lately and really this new format is driving me over the edge.
Niters.