Powered by TypePad

« Robert Reich Demagoguing On Taxes | Main | Times Editors - Kidding, Or Is It Early Alzheimers? »

May 03, 2008

Comments

BOATBUILDER

The WSJ editorial board knew exactly what it was doing when it published Ms. Wurtzel's . . . op-ed(I was going to say piece, but that would require a photo). It keeps the buzz going about Obama's radical background and associations. It is intended to piss off the regular readership. It worked.
And it's one more reminder (as if we needed one) of just how much smarter the WSJ editors are than the NYT's (everybody who believes that the NYT only gets letters to the editor that are 100% supportive of their positions, please raise your hands).

ben

Elizabeth Wurtzel of course doesn't get it, it's not about the Weathermen and whether they were bloodthirsty murderers and are now charming dinner companions or not. It's about Obama's politics and whether he believes what they believe.

boris

What North did do was lie under oath (to congress) and obstruct justice (by shreding memo).

IIRC North creatively resequenced a timeline as part of a semi regular presentation for a congressioinal oversight commitee. But not under oath.

vnjagvet

Very sad Derby.

That poor filly ran one of the very best races of any filly ever, without apparent incident on the track. The effort must have been too much for her, since she broke down a ways away from the finish line. Beating 28 horses in the Derby is a great accomplishment for a horse of any gender. The owners must be devastated.

That Big Brown seemed to be something special, though. His acceleration at the head of the stretch was something to see -- especially from the blimp shot.

sbw

Ann, I wish you a better night not dwelling on it. Remember, instead, the good times you had with your horse.

One of my great times was when we took our son and daughter (12 and 10 at the time) riding the ridges and valleys near Jackson Hole, Wyoming, It's a week they will cherish all their days.

Danube of Thought

I have the honor to remind everyone that Ms. Wurtzel was fired from the Dallas Morning News for plagiarism.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Danube of Thought

I think North's convictions were ultimately overturned, and he thus has no criminal record. But, like Billy Ayers, we know very well what he did, and each of us can judge for ourselves the gravity of the actions of both of them.

sbw

Whether legal or illegal, North acted like an ass. I didn't like him at the time. But then, most of the congress-critters at the time acted asses, too.

pagar

"It's about Obama's politics and whether he believes what they believe."

Larry Johnson has another post about Obama and includes a picture of the incoming vice president of AERA. Article

"Barack Obama may have been eight years old when William “Billy” Ayers was planting bombs at the State Department and the U.S. Capitol, but the Senator was a grown man working in the employ of Mr. Ayers when this picture appeared in August 2001."

Sara

The idea that there is any equivalence between Ollie North and Ayers is ludicrous.

Ollie did his fighting on the battlefield, where he earned the Silver Star, not in post offices, U.S. army bases, or the homes of private citizens. Nor to my knowledge has he killed police officers or had a girl friend blow her brains out when her bomb exploded too soon.

Ollie North fights communism, socialism and religious extremists/terrorists, Ayers is at war with the American way of life and advocates a Marxist society and is proud of his domestic terrorism.

clarice

Well, if you're going to be technical, Sara.

Porchlight

It was a very sad Derby. We went to the annual party a friend of mine (fellow Kentuckian) throws each year. I placed a $3 bet on Big Brown for my younger daughter and a $3 bet on Eight Belles for my older daughter. I had to chase the younger one around during the race, so I missed what happened after it ended. When I came back to the main room I couldn't figure out why a couple of the women were crying. In fact it wasn't until several minutes later (more chasing kids) that someone told me.

Funny, I was just reading this WSJ article last night that said that there have been some career- and life-ending injuries with all the progeny of Native Dancer interbreeding. Barbaro being the last, and now Eight Belles.

vnjagvet

Sorry for the typo. It was 18 horses she beat, not 28.

troy mcclure

North was directing much of the counter terror operations at the time, whether trying to find the hostages in Beirut's
southern neighborhoods; a job that folks
like future Black Hawk Down operations chief and anti-Pablo Escobar activist Col. William Garrison and Major Bill Cowan were
doing as part of Delta; along with future
Army Chief of Staff, Schoomaker and Special
Forces director Gerry Boykin. In retrospect
the Iran initiative was deeply flawed but in
light of the failure of allies to work with
Operation Staunch; detailed in Timmerman's Fanning the Flames, what were the realistic
alternatives. Lake's abandonment of Nicaragua & Iran, led to the power vaccuum were the Sandinistas and the quietist Shia
headed by Khomeini; but typified by Sepah Pasdaran officials like Vahidi, Ahmadinejad,
Nezhi-nejad, and Chamran, The last, a Berkeley educated DEfense Minister's the godfather of Hezbollah, typified by Najafi
educated clerics like Fadlallah, Iranian born, Soviet trained torture specialists like Ibrahim Midhar; Dr. Azziz al Abub, and former PLO intelligence official Imad Mugniyeh. The early results of those offensives directed at the Marine barracks at the Khaldun Airport, the Embassies on the
Corniche and the Auk sites, which featured
Shiite Iranians operating out their
consulates in Sunni dominant Allawite Syria
(much like Bin Laden's mothers side of the family) must have posed a problem for the
intelligence community than as now. Some people do actually learn from these lessons like Maliki, a long time Da'wa veteran who lived the struggles, and wants them not to
be repeated with Muqtada Sadr as "Baby" Fadlallah.

On another note, saw Iron Man. despite the
anti MIC rant that was wedged in the front seat, to establish 'truthiness' is the closest thing to a film that celebrates our need to fight the War on Terror. Downey's
'acting' as Stark, suggests how a more ideosyncratic corporate chieftain than the reviled BlackWater's Erik Prince would settle the problem. The Taliban successor,
The Ten Rings, are seen as the real enemy
although facilitated by Bridge's Stane
subterfuges. A Bat Man with a global reach.

Jane

It was a very sad Derby

What happened? I've been out listening to a very inspiring Schonda Schilling and missed it.

boris

Eight Belles, first filly in some years to run in the derby finished 2nd, about 4 lengths behind Big Brown, then collapsed with 2 broken front legs after the wire and was put down.

Porchlight

Oops, sorry, Ann, didn't mean to dwell on the sad Derby. It did cheer me up a little to see my youngest toddling around the room with a wad of dollar bills in her pocket from the Big Brown bet. Of the twenty or so people at the party, only four bet on the favorite.

If anyone wants some amusement, read the comments to the No Quarter post that pagar linked above. If you close your eyes for a minute and try to forget what blog you're on, it reads almost like a righty blog. One of the commenters even links JOM approvingly!

Danube of Thought

I'm not that big a fan of North, but I've never had any doubts about which side he was on in the most important fights of my lifetime.

Ben, you have a point--I've never seen any evidence that Ayers advised Obama about anything, and if in fact he did I'd love to hear about it. In fact I'd love to hear that they were homosexual lovers, but I don't want to jump the gun.

This Derby thing makes me sad as hell. We timed it just right and turned the thing on about two minutes before they sang the song, which always makes me have to wipe my eyes. We watched it till the end, the turned it off--didn't learn what had happened until I read about it.

Porchlight

Glad to know "Weep no more my lady" has that effect on non-Kentuckians too, DoT.

Sara

Okay, I can't take the sadness anymore. It was horrible to watch it unfold. But here is a palate cleanser of sorts to get that picture out of your mind. Scroll to the middle.

Chelsea does Derby

Sara

Shoot Porchlight, I was bawling over the Budweiser "Hank" ad. Now that's pathetic.

Jane

Boris,

Ugh. GUess I'm glad I missed it. Thanks for filling me in.

Rick Ballard

North is a KozKiddy red herring being fed to a canard sitting on a strawman. Not worth rebuttal.

We've had:

Rezko - pol renting crook

Wright - racist nutter reading from the New Testament as interpreted by Karl Marx

Ayers/Dohrn - domestic terrorists, commie to the core

What's next? Will Red Witch recycle Rezko the crook as he cuts a deal? How many commies reside in the closets of BHO Manse?

I'm betting Rezko redux - Red Witch has as many (if not more) commies under her bed as Red BHO does and the MSM gets queasy when commies get dragged under the lights. It must be like what an ant thinks when it sees a cockroach get squashed - it could be me next.

Fat Man

I agree with Charlie Elizabeth Wurtzel is a very talented young woman;-)

Appalled

TM:

What's the charge against Obama, here? Knowing a radical without a license. Precisely, what is the charge?

Danube of Thought

Potentially very strange judgment on the part of a man about whom we really know very little. An extrmely damaging uncertainty concerning one who holds himself out as a man who will "heal our souls," or who transcends the politics of the past, or who will bridge our great divides.

Will that "charge" suffice? [In reality, it will much more than suffice to bar him from the nation's highest office--but here, we deal not so much in cold realities as in polemics.] If it won't, we'll be glad to fill in the blanks almost without end, and certainly with great gusto.

Feeling a bit down about the erstwhile Messiah's chances, are we? Tut tut...

Appalled

Bad judgemnt, DoT? How could Obama avoid Ayers and engage in politics in his home district? is all of the Chicago political establishment guilty of bad judgement and disqualified from higher office.

Try again. What's the underlying charge?

Danube of Thought

"How could Obama avoid Ayers and engage in politics in his home district?"

His problem, not mine.

"is all of the Chicago political establishment guilty of bad judgement and disqualified from higher office."

No idea. Let any of 'em run for president, and at that point we'll give 'em a close look. In the meantime, this guy has toasted himself.

"Try again?" Why should I? I'll play these. We win, you lose.

Barry

"is all of the Chicago political establishment guilty of bad judgement and disqualified from higher office."

Well, probably. I mean, they do have a reputation.

It would seem to be your suggestion that since Obama couldn't escape bad political actors, we should overlook his close involvement with terrorists, crooks, and liars.

Brown Line

I've never seen a president in the flesh. But I did once see a first lady. It was Rosalyn Carter, and she was honorary chairwoman of the Armed Forces Day parade in Chicago in, I believe, 1978. She was on the reviewing stand, and with her was the Democratic precinct captain who organized the parade that year, a 36-year-old man named John Wayne Gacy. That was about six months before Gacy's arrest.

Of course, Carter hadn't a clue as to who Gacy was; nobody did. Unlike Bill Ayers, Gacy didn't brag of his crimes to the New York Times. If Gacy had beaten the rap on a technicality and Carter had then sought out his company, only then would she be as culpable as Obama is.

HoosierHoops

Hi Folks..
Back in Indiana tonight from Cali..As you know our family was visiting with Jordan fresh back from Iraq..
About a week and a half ago I posted about meeting him from the bus..
During my 3 hour layover in Denver today I got the chance to read all of your heartfelt and warm responses to my post.
We had a great time..Hanging with Jordan's squad all week was great.
What a wonderful group of young men..
I have a bunch of stories to tell but it's late..good night and thanks so much for our Marines.

Danube of Thought

HH, I'll wait with bated breath for those stories--please give us every detail. The world doesn't really know anything quite like young Marines.

Danube of Thought

P.S. for HH: Did we give you some Chamber of Commerce weather, or what? Hope you polished up on your surfing skills...

Pofarmer

is all of the Chicago political establishment guilty of bad judgement and disqualified from higher office.

From the list of indictments, it's certainly looking that way.

Once worked for a guy who was high up in the Unions running the rock quarries around Springfield and Chicago, he had a son in Illinios state politics. You don't get into politics in Illinios, or the quarry business, for that matter, without knowing something about the Mob. Barack Hussein knew exactly who these people were and he knew exactly what he was doing. He also never thought it would come to light.

bgates

How could Obama avoid Ayers and engage in politics in his home district?
There are 435 Congressional districts. Obama chose his. Twice. If you want to say he was a naive Columbia graduate the first time he went there, ok, maybe. But after spending 3 years as a "community organizer" - which should have done little else besides educate him as to the nature of Chicago politics - Obama went to Harvard and then came back to Chicago.

Of course, if he hadn't, Michelle would never have had a place on the national stage. I wouldn't have missed that for the world.

ben

"Try again. What's the underlying charge?"

You have read it here again and again Appalled. It's not about Wright or Ayers, both America haters, one from the pulpit the other as a terrorist bomber. They are free to hate and to believe the U.S. is the root of all evil. It's about a candidate for President of the United who by HIS actions, or inactions, is shown to harbor the same type of ideology that they do. That's the underlying charge. People that think the U.S. caused 9/11 and AIDS and who planted bombs in public places and are unrepentant about it are advising, friends with, working with, providing spiritual leadership to, marrying, socializing with, ministering to, etc. the guy who wants to be President.

Ralph L

In the late 70's, my mom went to a Navy wives' reception at the Vice President's (formerly the CNO's) residence. There was an awkward beginning when Mrs. Mondale was standing in a room alone, so my mom grabbed one of her friends and marched in and introduced herself. Fortunately, she recognized some Jugtown, NC, pottery on display, so they didn't have to talk about Carter's presidency.

DoT, we may not want every detail of a Marine decompression. I believe it's a recent policy to keep units together when they first get back--since they're not bringing them back slowly by ship like they used to, it lessens the culture shock. My dad brought 500? Marines back from Nam in '69 on his last sea cruise, commanding an LSD (large amphib warfare ship).

M. Simon

Semanticleo for tank tread grease.

Ralph L

huh?

CJ

Several posters are asking the question of just how Obama is actually connected to Ayers. For them I strongly recommend reading the post at the following link:

Who "sent" Obama?

A key excerpt, for the executive summary crowd:

Then, in late 1994 or early 1995, Obama made what I think was probably the key move in his early career. He was named Chairman of the Board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a $50 million grant program to funnel money into reform efforts at Chicago schools. It turns out that the architect of the Annenberg Challenge was Bill Ayers, who designed the grant proposal and sheparded it to success. The purpose of the program was to defend the clearly failing local schools council effort that had been put in place back in 1988. The first Executive Director of the Challenge was Ken Rolling, who came there from the much discussed Woods Fund (where he had been a program officer) and where Obama and Ayers would later sit side by side on the board of directors.

I know it's a cliche, but you really must Read The Whole Thing.

M. Simon

North according to his own diaries was transporting kilos. Of what it is not mentioned.

M. Simon

By the way, a good deal of the supply side
of the drug problem comes from tariffs on
Colombian cotton, Bolivia tin, that forced
a degree of 'crop substitution' on their part.

Don't forget our policy of price supports for drug production.

M. Simon

"is all of the Chicago political establishment guilty of bad judgement and disqualified from higher office."

Give that man a cigar!

Sam

Most unpopular president ever. Will at least you got into the Guinness Book.

Clinton or Obama. Take your pick. The GOP is dead.

glasater

Sam for tank tread grease:-)

SunnyDay

So, if I had to choose between Ollie North and Brockobama, I'd take Ollie.

Jane

Good Morning everyone. Obama took Guam by 7 votes. Can you say "comeback?"

HH - Yippee for you and yippee for the marines. Can't wait to hear all about it.

Sue

Was Obama supposed to win Guam? I can't remember.

Sue

I would like to remind liberals that Ollie North served in Vietnam. The standard reply to anything and everything in 2004. So, I am taking a page from their own playbook and invoking the 'served in Vietnam' defense for Ollie.

Jane

So HIll is doing a Q&A on Stephanolopus, and at one point she is standing and he is sitting and he asks something like: "People think you are dishonest, how do you get around that". She peers down at him and I swear darts are coming out of her eyes.

Now she is bringing up Stephanopolus' role in opposing NAFTA. Boy there is some history here. He can't get a word in edgewise.

Jane

Sue, I think up until last week Obama was supposed to sweep Guam.

clarice

Sue, that's so 2004 election. The chickenhawk, military service as the sine qua non for the presidency is no longer operative.

Sue

So winning by 7 votes isn't considered a sweep, is it?

Sue

is no longer operative

I know. Nothing they said then matters now. When you have the media in your back pocket, you can get away with saying anything.

Danube of Thought

Here's a hot one: Corpulent "ambassador" Joeseph C. Wilson IV weighs in on the Messiah's questionable judgment. Link under my name.

kim

Excellent link, River of Doting Thomas. Notice the dog that didn't bark, Bush twisting intelligence.
========================

Sue

DoT,

He said this?

SADDAM WAS A SERIAL VIOLATOR OF HUMAN RIGHTS, had started two wars in the region in the previous decade, continued to threaten his neighbors, including Israel, which he once said he would destroy with weapons of mass destruction. We may not have fully understood how little remained of his WMD arsenal, but were we really willing in the aftermath of 9/11 to give him a free pass, as Obama's rewriting of history suggests he might have done?

I'm continually amazed at the pretzels people put themselves in, depending on the person they are supporting for president at any given time. He is using the Bush line to support Hillary? ::sigh:: I am not sophisticated enough to understand how you can say and do one thing less than 4 years ago and now say and do another and think no one will notice.

sbw

So, would someone help me put this lying, dissembling, turncoat opportunist into perspsective. Wilson was a Kerry dude, until they turned him out. Now he's a Clintonista tried and true.

Was he ever a Kerry supporter? Or a was he a Clinton plant in the Kerry camp that Clinton expected to be exposed as a dirty trick bumbler. Or was he a Clinton plant that would have become a Kerry supporter had Kerry actually pulled it off.

clarice

It's even more complicated. Remember when he moved to New Mexico he said he planned to work for Richardson's campaign. He didn't. Then, latish in the primaries , he came out for Clinton, and Richardson who as a member of the Clinton inner circle could be expected to support Hill, went for Obama.

sbw

Sigh. You can't tell the players even WITH a scorecard!

Danube of Thought

Ambassador Joe's remarks about WMD must be cut, saved, and held in readiness for all sorts of delightful purposes.

IIRC, the Kerry camp dropped him like a hot rock when he was exposed as a liar by the Senate Intelligence Committee. I suppose that he and the bufoon Larry Johnson are now angling for jobs in an imaginary Clinton administration.

kim

When you inhabit as slippery a pinnacle as Joe and Val do, every step needs a scorecard. I think the couple went with Richardson, who smelled the rats they were. Once I thought they were willed upon the Clintons by Richardson, but now suspect they suspended themselves from the garters in her big tent, all by their own volition. Joe is one slippery customer, as is demonstrated by his own hand above, but he's been exposed, particulartly lately as the Larry and Joe attack machine swung into the fray, to the Obama style Progressives, as the double dealing hack we know him to be, from old, forgotten, far-off things, and battles long ago.
===========================

vnjagvet

The who "sent" Obama article linked by CJ in his 2:18 am post is a fascinating read.

Bottom line, the familie Ayers, pere Tom, fils, Bill and John and the ever clever Bernadette "sent" him into Chicago politics.

Based on the implications contained in that article, as well as the time line disclosed in it, I would not be a bit surprised if that family helped support him while in law school.

pagar

Vnjaqvet, I agree with you. I think there is a whole lot more to the Ayers Obama story than we now know.

Meanwhile, courthouse bombing is in the News Again

"SAN DIEGO – A pipe bomb or series of pipe bombs exploded at the Edward J. Schwartz Federal Courthouse downtown early Sunday morning, sending shrapnel into a courtyard and to the eighth floor of a building across the street."

Thanks to William Ayers and his friends, everyone now knows that for some people at least, there is no real penalty for things like that.

Like Mr Ayers stated according to an earlier link on this thread,see my 9:14PM post
"guilty as hell, free as a bird, it’s a great country.

kim

Thanks, CJ, for the link. Steve Diamond is crystal clear.
================================

Rich Rostrom

vnjagvet commented

IIRC only Nixon and Al Gore share the unfortunate honor of presiding over their own defeat...

In fact, two other sitting Vice Presidents have run for President and lost...

John Breckinridge in 1860

Hubert Humphrey in 1968

Each of them presided over the Electoral Vote count.

(VP John Garner ran for President in 1940, but of course did not get the nomination.)

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame