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May 24, 2008

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kim

So is Bill, and Obama. Certainly Kerry and probably Gore, probably not Carter. Not Dukakis, neither Bush, Mondale, Reagan or Dole. Not McCain.
=========================

clarice

Ann Althouse has apologized to Andrew for making fun of his claim that Hillary's a sociopath. Apparently she's come to share his opinion. (I do, too. But then Kim's list would be mine.)

clarice

To be clear, she's basing it not on the Michigan business but on Hillary's wacky statement on the RFK assassination.

Danube of Thought

These meterorites--where do they come from?

Douglas Fletcher

"reliably calm and thoughtful Andrew Sullivan"

What's the emoticon for irony? You must have forgotten to use it.

If you ever heard Hugh Hewitt's interview of Sullivan about Sullivan's book about J. Christ, you'd wonder how this guy makes it past his rice crispies every morning.

(I tried finding a link for the interview but ten minute with google just turned up dead links.)

narciso

In this light, a fiction review ofsomething called "Rubicon" by Lawrence Altman, and no it's not the NY Times health reporter(referenced in the West Wing). First off, the blurb is by Gary Hart, who is known cites for making poor Roman Empire allusions
in the Huffington Post;to the nascent American Empire. That and articles like the one cited by Capt. Jason Steenwyck, where he suggested "AQ in Iraq" wasn't the same
as AQ. His last attempt at actual fiction, was a set of novels hw wrote under a pseudonym; John BlackThorne, which he suggested a former intelligence ordiplomatic
source about Post Castro Cuba; where the evil Americans are thwarted by compassionate
former Castro official turned politico who saves the country from American style democracy. Altman, is supposedly a former
congressional staffer, who seems to have absorbed all the BDS paranoia left over from the Bourne series, the Steve Alten truther novel "Shell Game" and the Manchurian Candidate remake. The main character a Senator by the name of Robert Hart, whose CIA father died mysteriously shortly before the whole 9/11 period. Hart, the 'white Barack Obama, '84 series, against Mondale, the Hillary predecessor sounds much like he sounded in the mid 80s when he sounded paranoid claxons to Sydney
Blumenthal, whose one time alliance with Phillip Agee makes me question his judgement. about the CIA and CREEP type effort by the White House against the candidate. Hart, the character, after choosing not to run for Senate is apprised by a German publisher friend of his father, that he was murdered; presumedly by the PNAC neocons for offering proof of Saddam's
compliance with WMD, or something to that effect. He also puts him in contact with another spy associate figure of his father; in Hamburg, who warns of a assasination plot
against a presidential candidate. He returns home, chats up the CIA deputy director; who dies in an accident. Before long, suicide bombers have taken out the leading Democrat nominee and his runner up
as well as the Republican nominee(who has a profile suspiciously like McCain;) yet he doesn't blame AQ; but this so called
"Rubicon" faction. who he later discovers through a former Gitmo detainee (shades of Capt. Yee)have been training said detainees to target political candidates; to further the incumbents:'rule by fear'. In the end the author doesn't implicate He who Shall Not be Named; but a former staffer, who made an old 9/11 contingency plan operational. This is an elaboration of what Lessing, that Huff Po poster painting Blackwater as triggerman, that aussie Phillip Adams, have sketched out in multiple posts.

MarkO

I stopped reading Sullivan after I realized he simply posed as a conservative/libertarian to add a false impact to his decision to back Kerry. So, I’m uninformed about his rants. Nevertheless, using my very modest abilities, I pulled up the remainder of his quote:

“The way she is losing is so ugly, so feckless, so riddled with narcissism and pathology that this kind of person should never be a heartbeat away from the presidency.”

Obama has no history of acting on any principle except the one that advances him. I thought that the Sully quote worked quite well to describe Obama. Projection? Pathological?

I

vnjagvet

Guess what? For those idealists out there, only skilled politicians make great presidents. So there is no mistake in my meaning, let's go down the list. Consider these indisputably great presidents (based on results on their watch occasioned by their decisions):

Washington
Jackson
Lincoln
Roosevelt I
Roosevelt II
Reagan

And the near greats (i.e. better than "good" using the same criteria):

Adams I
Jefferson
Wilson
Truman
Eisenhower

Any one out there want to tell me why any of these men were not skilled politicians?

Let's not discount the talent for political life in our politicians.

BTW, I think McCain is the best politician in the bunch.

There, I said it. I am now ready to duck.

(Hit: The Bombay Martini was great tonight. Cabernet olives made the difference.)

L. Wieseltier

Andrew Sullivan has been a lying, intellectually dishonest sack of crap as long as I've known the little shit.

clarice

Well, I haven't watched him for long, but before the Kerry fandango I thought him reasonably honest.

SteveMG

FYI, the Sullivan vs. Hewitt transcript can be found here: Link.

Very testy.

he b

Obama took his name off the ballot in deference to their agreement and the rules of the party.

 Ann

Obama has no history of acting on any principle except the one that advances him. -MarkO

Great observation MarkO.

Obama's web site (barackobama.com) is full of carp that the media refuses to ask him to defend or explain. Here's an example:
Barack Obama's Plan
Ending the War in Iraq

Humanitarian Initiative: Obama believes that America has a moral and security responsibility to confront Iraq's humanitarian crisis – two million Iraqis are refugees; two million more are displaced inside their own country. Obama will form an international working group to address this crisis. He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find a safe-haven.

That is just a taste. If we don't ask any questions, he can advance himself anyway he wants.

A.W.

This is just Sullivan being his usual excitable self.

What Hillary really did was go back on her word. Its not sociopathy, or if it is, half of washington is filled with sociopaths. and Sullivan is the biggest one, who turned against everything bush stood for because Bush stood against gay marriage. Give me a break.

Americaneocon

I posted on this a couple of days ago. Sullivan's lost it over Obama.

Peter

I never thought I would defend Hillary but her point about Bobby Kennedy was absolutely correct. It WAS June and the race was still going strong. She wasn't commenting about how glad she was that he was assassinated. After all, anyone who would wiretap MLK is a champeen Democrat, a Democrat all Democrats would love to emulate. She was commenting on the fact that except for the Pundits, it's still an open race.
Obama has won in mostly red states where he will lose in November. Hillary has won in the states that a Donk must win to have any chance at all.
I don't care who wins, three Democrats running, all three of them could have their legs grow together for all of me, Hillary, Obama and McCain.

Pofarmer

Humanitarian Initiative: Obama believes that America has a moral and security responsibility to confront Iraq's humanitarian crisis – two million Iraqis are refugees; two million more are displaced inside their own country. Obama will form an international working group to address this crisis. He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find a safe-haven.

And they're going to do it all without any military security. riiigggghhhhhtttttt.

Not to mention, is anybody gonna ask him about all the people Saddam displaced internally to keep power?

sylvia

I am starting to get pissed for Hillary more and more. Why are they demanding she quit the race? It's so close, why should she quit?

As to her wanting FL and MI to count, I don't know why everyone is calling her pathological over it. It wasn't her idea to begin with and everyone went along with it back then because no one could predict that it would matter. Half the time the primary is over on the first week. But now that it is so close, why shouldn't the people of those states have their say, if it can make a difference. The important thing is making sure the people are heard, not that some silly rules are followed. It's only reasonable of her to say so. If it is still close after the remaining states play out, I think it is only fair that they should take a revote.

And I agree with TM's point that Obama took his name off the vote in MI on his own volition- hardly an inclusive gesture from him to the people of MI. He knew it would be to his advantage - but he's not self-serving right? I admire Hillary and her guts in this case.

sylvia

But speaking of sociopaths or psychopaths- I find degrees of that type of personality to be very common among people, in my own observation. Luckily most of them don't possess strong violent streaks or we'd have a lot more serial killers out there.

Any time someone lies a lot, and does it to manipulate people, and does it in a way that they seem to enjoy it, like they enjoy "getting away with it", that to me is a redlight, like - ah hah! psychopath. Those same people are also particulary adept at fooling the group, where lots of people think, "gee what a nice person." Work and relationships are the best places to see them reveal their true colors. And there are lots of them. I would guess one out of 10.

Elliott

So, to argue that the toil and moil of this extended primary battle won't divide the party irreparably, Clinton cites the Democrats' experience in 1968.

Ut si.

non

was that really leon wieseltier of the new republic who posted at http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/05/hillarys-a-soci.html#comment-116291804

PeterUK

Sociopath isn't quite right,the term over controlled psychopath fits many politicians.Indeed many business men,lawyers and surgeons.

Jane

I'm speechless, so I'll simply say Good Morning.

clarice

Morning,Jane..PUK there's something unnatural about such wit so early in the morning.

PeterUK

Clarice,
It's lunch times here ,but is probably something to do with the "top grade,strength four Arabica coffee,grown on co-operatives on the foothill of the Andes,in the Huila region of Western Columbia" Sweetened with "natural dark Muscavado unrefined cane sugar",along with black cherry jam on fresh crusty bread.

Jane

PUK,

Unless you are reading that off the label, that recall is just wrong.

clarice

Well, you could share it PUK. Now there's a topic for a good feature article--the florid description of foods on labels and menus.

PeterUK

Jane,
Yes,straight off the label.I neglected to mention Marks & Spencers Freetrade.

PeterUK

I forgot to mention,you need a pint mug,but if I'm sharing I'll get out the silver coffee pot.

clarice

Great. I have the pint mug already and warm..I'll add some yummy basque cheese to the feast.

kim

The approximate evolution of the terminology has been from psychopath through sociopath to, presently, borderline personality. The condition is unamenable to treatment, as is that of the child lovers. A characteristic cry is "I hate you, don't leave me"
==================================

PeterUK

Why not start using menu descriptions for candidates,
Obama is obviously in the "Dew fresh,dawn picked mushroom", category.
Hillary,"Seasoned Mutton marinated in wine with a tangy cheese sauce"
McCain,obviously the "Well aged port and mature Stilton".

boris

McCain is Colonel Tigh with side of Six.

Well that's not actually a dish, but Six is.

JM Hanes

Sunday brunch coming up here: cornbread custard with maple syrup, smoked sausages, grapefruit & arugula (!) salad w. mustard vinaigrette. Dressing it up in florid language would be a real challenge -- I'd settle for making it sound like something you'd actually look forward to eating, but it's serious comfort food. Then there's the pitcher of fresh squeezed orange juice....

Monsanto once ran an amusingly pointed ad with a photo of a perfect orange and a list of its chemical "ingredients" that read like it would kill you on the spot.

Jane

When I think of Marks and Spencer I think: underwear.

JMH that sounds fabulous. We are doing Memorial Day the old fashion way - hamburgers, keilbasa, sausage, chicken and my famous red bliss potato salad with garlic and mint.

kim

More homes are wrecked by the daily menu than by the 'Other Woman'.

H/t Ford Naylor.
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JB

"The approximate evolution of the terminology has been from psychopath through sociopath to, presently, borderline personality."

Kim, I think you mean antisocial personality.

PeterUK

"When I think of Marks and Spencer I think: underwear."

Just doesn't cut it as a breakfast drink.

clarice

HEH!

Fresh caught leaping trout from the wild river which flows past our front door with home churned sweet butter ,sliced crisped almonds and a hint of parsley hache, served with golden yukon potato fingerlings (plucked by gorgeous, stooping virgins from our own verdant fields)then baked in our clay oven and buttered . Nested alongside them are haricot verte steamed with a touch of cumin along with Ethiopian sea salt both of which are daily transported to our establishment by Bactrian camels of impeccable pedigree .

Danube of Thought

Mornin', Jane. Mornin', all.

Saw a fascinating discussion--I think it was the Fox All-Stars--on what might constitute an effort by Hillary to "force" her way onto the ticket. She says, "announce me as your VP right now and I withdraw immediately, and you and I do the unity/victory dance and trash McCain together. Otherwise, I keep on trashing you right up to and including the convention, where my supporters will place my name in nomination for vice president."

(Nobody said "nah--she'd never stoop that low.") Problem with that scenario is, I can't see her doing it if Obama names his running mate in advance of the convention.

kim

Apes are serving me grapes on ivory utensils.
============================

kim

Thanks, JB, the most acute ape just sotto vocalized that I approximate the two, regularly, and obnoxiously.
=======================

PeterUK

I have taken out the Vermeil and nacre,French Empire cheese knives circa 1825 in readiness for the cheese.

PeterUK

"nah--she'd never stoop that low."

I read that as,"She'd never stoop that high".

clarice

Later. The pool calls and then company. Happy Memorial Day all.

kim

Bon appetit et memoire.
================

JM Hanes

Jane: Great potato salad is a real achievement! It's hard to come by and hard to beat it when you do.

Clarice: LOL! My Sunday Brunch clearly needs claricification. When I sell my house, will you write me up a description for the real estate page?

kim

I have never met a potato salad I didn't like; nor a meatloaf.
=====================================

Patrick R. Sullivan

Donald Boudreaux has some fun explaining to Hillary the logic of her sexism complaint:

But hey, I'm a guy and perhaps hopelessly insensitive. So let's give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that her campaign has indeed suffered because of sexism.

This fact (if it be a fact) reveals a hitherto unknown, ugly truth about the Democratic Party. The alleged bastion of modern liberalism, toleration and diversity is full of (to use Mrs. Clinton's own phrase) "people who are nothing but misogynists." Large numbers of Democratic voters are sexists. Who knew?

But here's another revelation. If Mrs. Clinton is correct that she is more likely than Barack Obama to defeat John McCain in November, that implies Republicans and independents are less sexist than Democrats.

It must be so. If American voters of all parties are as sexist as the Democrats, Mr. Obama would have a better chance than Mrs. Clinton of defeating Mr. McCain. The same misogyny that thwarted her in the Democratic primaries would thwart her in the general election. Only if registered Republicans and independents are more open-minded than registered Democrats – only if people who lean GOP or who have no party affiliation are more willing than Democrats to overlook a candidate's sex and vote on the issues – could Mrs. Clinton be a stronger candidate.

sbw

Say, PUK, without revealing your location, how far are you from Clapham or Battersea in London, where my sister lives?

My brunch was fresh crusty bread and a cup of fresh-brewed, loose tea from Harney's with milk, sunshine, and a view of the placid lake out the window. Oh, and you guys, too.

PrestoPundit

Who is Andrew Sullivan?

sbw

Sorry, PP, Andrew was not worth looking up the bio for.

Mike

Obama has no history of acting on any principle except the one that advances him.

Bullshit. Absolute and profoundly stupid bullshit.

So is Bill, and Obama. Certainly Kerry and probably Gore, probably not Carter. Not Dukakis, neither Bush, Mondale, Reagan or Dole. Not McCain.

Like Sullivan and Althouse, you are too stupid to understand anything you write.


EyesOpens

He said 'jump'!
And they said 'how high'?
And then he said 'just kidding'.
Does anyone else see the joke he played on the press? Soon he will be known as the boy who cried wolf.

MarkO

In re: the trenchant observations of one calling himself Mike.

From this great mind we learn that there is not merely “bullshit,” but “absolute” and even “profoundly stupid bullshit.” One cannot find this level of enlightenment even on, say, MSNBC. We also learn, if we apply ourselves, that this is an all-purpose retort, vying with “same to you,” as the ultimate in argument ending exchanges. I, for one, am not longer looking for old-fashioned evidence to support an argument. Now I understand there is no need for anything except some form of bullshit to support Obama.

Moreover, Mike deigns to inform us that some writers are “too stupid to understand anything [they] write.” These writers, obviously possessed by demons, have no idea what they have written and no comprehension of its meaning. Close reading reveals the clever cross-reference by using the word “stupid,” which applies not only to bullshit, but to certain writers.

Let us now join with this brilliant observer and worship the Young Prince. Remember, it’s not racist to vote for Obama because he is black. It is praiseworthy.

kim

Well, so far, by all evidence, what you write, Mike, is no shittier than a fart.
======================

Molon Labe

Didn't Michigan and Florida move their primaries up precisely to give Hillary an early lead?

JB

This may not be a label out of DSM-IV, but it's as descriptive of BHO as any other:

"Jive turkey was a derogatory slang word in African American Vernacular English, used to refer to someone who was unreliable, made empty promises, or who was full of bluster."

Of course, I'd probably be accused of racism for using it, yet which part of that does not apply?

kim

Not racist, JB, it's been around long enough to enter the mainstream. And in my DSM, it's a subset of the antisocial borderline.
======================

Marvino Guardino

Hillary’s speech sounds psychotic and hollow not simply because it’s overt pandering for a chance to stay relevant, but because she’s blaming an enemy who doesn’t exist. (well, the enemy exists, and it is she) Invoking the Florida debacle of 2000 is tantamount to blaming President Bush for the DNC’s decision to ostracize Florida in 2008. It’s nutty. Although I suppose it does play to the generally held theory that Karl Rove controls the universe.She's nuts, all right, but not for that reason

Jim

I'm getting the sense that people are rejecting Andrew's point because they object to his use of the word "sociopath." Surely that is a bit of hyperbole, you are probably saying to yourself.

Sadly, the word is pretty much on the mark. The layman's definition of the word now carries many connotations that it does not carry in the world of clinical psychiatry. I should also point out that "sociopath" isn't really used much anymore; instead, it is said that the patient is suffering from "anti-social behavior syndrome."

Simply put, the diagnosis is made when one engages in behavior that is abusive or damaging to others, without any regard for the feelings or welfare of others. These people often lie compulsively, steal, get in fights, etc. Also (and this is very important), the anti-social patient sees himself as totally normal; it's everyone ELSE that has the problem.

Operating under the true definition of sociopath, then, Andrew Sullivan's point is well taken.

kim

Ooh, nice link, Marvino.
==============

barry

She's quite insane.

Question - why is it that everyone says she appologized for the RFK assasination reference? She didn't, she only expressed regret that people misunderstood her and took the comment our of context. I tried that once - after a heated argument I told my wife (Melinda - we'll see you a week from Friday by the way) that I was sorry she was upset. She tried to hit me!

thecandypoem

Sullivan is ridiculous. He just has a big crush on Obama. He will do anything to get Obama to whisper sweet nothings in his ear.

Kudzu Fire

Be afraid. Be very afraid. Hillary Clinton is running for president.

elp

The only way to truly honor Michigan's vote is to look at exit polls, because Obama did the right thing and removed his name from the ballot.

Exit polls show that if Obama had been on the ticket, Clinton would have received about 271,000 votes, and Obama 206,000 votes. Put these into the vote totals, and Obama still leads the popular vote.

By ignoring these figures, Clinton is becoming numbingly akin to George Bush in her stance of boldly stating what she wants people to think repeatedly, loudly, and without any wavering, so that her preferred positions can be echoed round the media, and have a chance of becoming acceptable premises.

Even more akin to George Bush is the fact that Clinton's statements only make sense when you figure in complicated strategic calculations or hidden agendas. Otherwise you have to think she's deluded.

As we see from McClellan's new book, the answer in George Bush's case is that he was deluded. Maybe this is the answer for Hilary Clinton as well. Maybe we should call it as it looks.

kim

Clinton grade ambition is delusory.
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