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May 30, 2008

Comments

Sara

Bob Owens details:

The Men in His Life

ROA

If blacks are entitled to demand redress for what happened decades and centuries ago, shouldn’t Obama be forced to contribute because his ancestors probably captured and sold the people my ancestors owned?

Pofarmer

ROA, I think you're over thinking things a little bit there. ;0)

Pofarmer

Oh, and just for the record. When somebody owned somebody else's ancestors, my ancestors were still in Europe.

Does that mean I don't have to pay?

Pofarmer

great great great grandfather was white, so that obviously made him a rapist and someone should be held responsible. My mouth just dropped.

I think it's obvious we're backsliding here.

PeterUK

"great great great grandfather was white,"

What a coincidence,so was mine.Is there any money in this?

GMax

Hell I have done the research, twert no slave owners in my ancestors and I am back before 1780 now. So y'all pay up, I got no debts. In fact there is this old lawsuit where my ggg gf got cheated out of 30 days pay that never got settled. In todays dollars after 205 years of interest compounding, I think I will just take the island of Guam and call it even.

Rick Ballard

"Does that mean I don't have to pay?

So y'all pay up, I got no debts."

Sorry fellas. You're both covered under the Jackson-Conyers Derivative Reparations Act. I suggest a more thorough review of ancestral records - on a "You May Be The Winner!!" basis. Who knows, even if you don't turn up a black aunt, you might find a Cherokee second cousin with an interest in a casino.

GMax

If I find an Indian relative or just think I do, does that mean I can be Professor of something or other at the University of Colorado? I can give outrageous speeches if that is also a requirement.

Sara

Well my ancestors were Quaker and had land and livestock confiscated for getting caught giving safe haven on his property to runaway slaves. Shouldn't I be entitled to a piece of the pie as restitution for what was confiscated?

The whole idea of someone a century or more after the fact being held responsible for actions of those so long ago is ludicrous. If blacks would stop walking around with 200 year old chips on their shoulders, maybe we'd get somewhere. Playing the blame game never solves anything.

I've reached my tipping point. I am sick to death of the victim mentality. It isn't my fault that a certain segment of minorities does not want to get educated, assimilate into adult society, and be a productive and contributing member to the whole. All I have to do is look around my neighborhood to see a mix of blacks, Hispanics, Asians and whites, all of whom are middle class with decent jobs and nice 2-story houses less than 10 years old. The same forces were at work for them as in the South Side of Chicago or the ghettos of L.A., the difference is not in the color of the skin, but their drive and character and the content of their mind. And their acceptance that personal responsibility is a better road to the future than entitlement, which breeds more contempt.

RichatUF

Sara-

Shouldn't I be entitled to a piece of the pie as restitution for what was confiscated?

Well that sort of thinking will earn you membership into the ANWAR Protection Battalion. The polar bears need company, and can be cute and charming-when they aren't hungry.

Sara

Well that sort of thinking will earn you membership into the ANWAR Protection Battalion. The polar bears need company, and can be cute and charming-when they aren't hungry.

When you put it that way.

Nevermind!:)

Enlightened

Sara - I also saw the black gal on Fox this morning. I was literally dumbfounded. She appeared to be arguing intellectually about Pflegers remarks, and then once the gentleman on her right said something she just went nuts and would not shut her mouth to let anyone finish what they were saying. What I got from her tirade was that White Persons have been raping Black Persons for centuries, and that she has white on black (physical) rape in her background as proof positive.

What I got from her was anger and hatred of the white man/men because of what physically happened to her great grandmother, but she was even more angry about the "virtual" raping of Black persons by ALL White persons, all the time, and therefore she agreed with Pfleger and his admonition about the rape of the Black People.

It is probably my tonal deficiencies speaking, but I happen to believe an act of violence upon another person, ie: rape, is a crime. No matter who commits the act. Including the many black men that rape white women, exceedingly more than they rape black women. I hope she is just as angry about that statistic.

As for the "rape of the black man" that Pfleger was referring to - it has nothing to do with me, my family, my friends or their families, my ancestors - hundreds upon hundreds of white persons that have never physically, monetarily nor emotionally "raped" a black person, or any other person. It simply isn't in our family history to treat another human being in that manner. I hope she recognizes that there are millions of families just like mine.

Black people were treated like shit, we all know it. But the constant generalization that we ALL did it has become self-serving and timeworn. I'm sick of hearing it, I'm sick of Friends of BHO pushing it down our throats.


Pofarmer

you might find a Cherokee second cousin with an interest in a casino.

Well, my Great Grandma was half blackfoot, is that worth anything?

Sara

What gets me is that if I say that I am afraid if I meet a man, who happens to be black, on a dark street late at night when I'm alone that makes me a racist, but the other side can call all white people, including women, rapists and that's okay. It is okay to blame whitey for all the ills of the African-American world, but let whitey complain, even a little, and he is facing hate speech or hate crime charges.

This country has striven for the last 50 years toward equality and tolerance and tried to right old wrongs. When is enough enough and that equality and tolerance becomes a two-way street?

I think the defection to Hillary of so many of the working class whites, both sexes, is a good indication not that they're racist but that they are fed up taking the blame. And as far as I'm concerned, they have good reason to be fed up.

JM Hanes

Mike Vollpe:

"I personallly think that the best way to tie Obama to Ayers is through the larger political community of Chicago that allows a former terrorist to be such a player. Obama claims to be an outsider in D.C. but in Chicago, Cook County and Springfield he is the ultimate insider, and he did nothing to change the culture of corruption in any of those three governments. In fact, he became a part of the political machine that so defines that culture."

I agree. The Ayers connection has already been in circulation for awhile now and gotten almost no traction. I don't think it's likely too, either, whether or not it should, unless someone steps up and says Obama and Ayers were colluding on some sort of violently radical mission.

I do think defining Obama down as Chicago insider and a willing cog in that famously corrupt machine could be a pretty big deal if the details can be fleshed out. Are you from Chicago? As MayBee noted above, it's pretty hard to track Obama's Chicago years on the web. Or recognize the significance of something like the Obama/Stroger confab you mentioned in your item on Countering the Outside Image . Have any local outlets been putting that picture together? Does it look like there's actually any serious investigative journalism afoot? I keep waiting for some Chicago shoes to drop, but I've begun to wonder if too many of the powers that be there are in the tank for Obama to let that happen.

Rick Ballard

JMH,

You might want to bookmark Rezkorama - look for Pringle's pieces. She has some rather keen insight into the Chicago Machine sewer.

JM Hanes

Thanks Rick -- definitely worth a bookmark! I've taken to reminding myself lately that the general election campaign hasn't actually revved up yet, and hoping that the McCain campaign has somebody really good working the Chicago angle. Without some sort of compelling storyline -- or taglines -- around which a mountain of small details can coalesce, you end up with a mishmash that just looks like same ol' same ol' inside baseball. I've long susptected that Obama's stint as a "community organizer" was probably really penny ante stuff, but the Acorn link suggests there may be more than meets the eye. Either way, it's a Chicago story worth telling, but somebody with Chicago sources has got to pull it all together, and it's pretty amazing that it doesn't look like anybody has really tried.

 Ann

Couldn't we all start with a challenge to Trinity’s tax exempt status ? No?

How about Federal earmarks that go to a church?

JM Hanes

Ann:

Hard to imagine a more perfect set up for McCain than Obama's earmarks, no? We've got your old politics right here!

 Ann

JM Hanes,

We also have the count every vote "Rules Committee Tomorrow" that will show everyone how fair the left is on counting every vote. :) Looking forward to it!!

Rick Ballard

JMH,

Given BHO's current trajectory I doubt that McCain will pump the Chicago sewers too hard. BHO's hate whitey associates will probably do far more damage to what remains of his campaign than revelations as to how he was selected as that one tiny red ACORN destined to be overfertilized until it grew to a spindly, weak trunked sapling with a poor root structure.

And you are quite right about the season - it's still a bit early, although perhaps a bit late for RW. The angle that bothers me, regardless of the actions of the DNC tomorrow, is continued revelations which drive BHO to a -20 in the polls prior to the convention (RWs Gotterdammerung plan) with the effect of wholesale flips of "pledged" delegate groups. I really wouldn't care to see Broom One fueled up and cleared for take off after Denver.

GnuCarSmell

Speaking of reparations, my father's great-great-great uncle fought in Second Bull Run, where he tragically lost not only his tongue, but his cheek as well, the latter injury being slightly more inconvenient in terms of first impressions which did not involve speech -- not to imply that garbled speech was not a hindrance to commercial or romantic prowess ...

I digress.

As the sort of ancestor of one so grievously mutilated fighting to free persons of color, it strikes me as only fair that persons of color pledge a tithe into my checking account in order to compensate me for the psychic wounds I will always bear on behalf of my father's great-great-great uncle. I never knew him, but I think his name was Joshua or Thaddeus or something similar. Great guy.

kim

PTTGSD: Post Traumatic Trans Generational Stress Disorder.
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kim

Actually, that's the diagnosis for Obama. All the criteria in the DSM are fulfilled.
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Ranger

Either way, it's a Chicago story worth telling, but somebody with Chicago sources has got to pull it all together, and it's pretty amazing that it doesn't look like anybody has really tried.

Posted by: JM Hanes | May 31, 2008 at 12:35 AM

The problem is that the only people really capable of doing that are the Chicago press, and they are very conflicted about it at the moment. They hate the Daily and Stroger regimes and all their corruption with a passasion. But at the same time the ingrained Chicago inferiority complex (Second City Syndrom) has them all a twitter over the idea of a president from Chicago, even if he is a product of the very same corrupt system they all hate so much. If they thought it through further they might realize the damage Obama could do to the city's reputation given that he will certainly be as bad, if not worse, than Carter was.

kim

I'm never going to forget, or let anyone else forget for that matter, the cabbie dispatcher who said in response to a query about 'The Chicago Way' "Is that a street or a business?"
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kim

More and more this resembles Eisenhower/Stevenson and don't you wish McCain were an Eisenhower? Sad, though, the comparison with Stevenson, who was a giant.
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Rick Ballard

"the comparison with Stevenson, who was a giant"

Only if one has awakened in Lilliput - or in comparison to the Audacious Dope. Looking over his Wiki bio, it's interesting to note that he, like Obama, had a connection to Sidley - with a side of Chicago Machine.

kim

Yes, Lilliput, Stevenson, at least, had a brain.
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kim

Stevenson, at least, had executive capability and an intellect, and still this conduit of the 'Chicago Way' lost. Racial guilt isn't going to push this current zombie replica to success. There is just too much artificiality in the person and the process.
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Jim Miller

It's politically incorrect to say this, but ....
Being of mixed race is not proof of rape in one's past. As some of Strom Thurmond's descendants could tell you.

In fact, in early colonial America, there were significantly more white men than women and so a large number of the white men formed liaisons with Indian women and black women -- often with the consent of the women, sometimes at their initiative.

kim

That wasn't the glass ceiling they were banging up against.
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