Obama's Clarification On Meetings - Clear As Mud

The mystery continues to swirl around Obama's "foreign policy by gaffe" lauded by Matt Yglesias - what in the world could he have really meant when he gave a seemingly straightforward answer to a clear question during the You-Tube debate:

“Would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?” asked Stephen Sixta, a video producer who submitted the question for the CNN/YouTube Democratic debate.

Mr. Obama, the first candidate to respond, answered, “I would.”

Times reporters tried to sort through the latest Obamafuscations:

In the interview Wednesday, Mr. Obama conceded that he might need to do a better job explaining his policy.

“It’s not like this is something that I’ve hid from,” Mr. Obama said. “But there’s no doubt that in a general election, I want the American people to understand exactly what my position is, which has not changed.”

What has changed, he said, is that he now has to rebut accusations by the McCain campaign.

“I didn’t say that I would meet unconditionally as John McCain maintained, because that would suggest whether it was useful or not, whether it was advancing our interests or not, I would just do it for the sake of doing it,” he said. “That’s not a change in position, that’s simply responding to distortions of my position.”

He added: “I think if we lay out repeatedly and clearly my position, ultimately I think I’ve got the majority of the American people on my side on this issue.”

The McCain campaign, which did not respond to requests for comment, has said Mr. Obama’s approach would elevate the stature of leaders with ill intentions.

Susan E. Rice, a senior foreign policy adviser to Mr. Obama, said Mr. Obama had conveyed similarly nuanced policy positions on meetings with foreign leaders of enemy nations months before the YouTube debate.

For instance, in an interview with the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz in May 2007, he said that he believed talks with Iran should begin at a low governmental level even if enrichment continued. But, he said, higher-level talks “will not be appropriate without some sense of progress.” The newspaper also quoted him as saying “we need to check” whether there were leaders with a “more sensible attitude” than that of Mr. Ahmadinejad.

Some supporters of Mr. Obama’s position say he nonetheless offered a less-complete answer at the debate that gave fodder to his critics.

Former Senator Gary Hart, an Obama supporter and a former presidential candidate, said he believed Mr. Obama had learned an important lesson from the experience: “Don’t use that shorthand, particularly when you’re facing a national election and an opposition that’s going to take advantage of everything that can be misconstrued — you’ve got to almost bend over backwards to be explicit.”

I guess that once he "explains" his position to the American people we will understand that his "shorthand" answer of "I would" actually concealed a tremendous amount of detail and nuance.  Silly us for misunderstanding.

And if Obama lapses into similar shorthand while President and raises unrealistic expectations all around the world, well, silly world.

I think it is fair to say that the NY Times has not yet cleared the fog.  Karl at Team Protein is a skeptic; Jake Tapper of ABC News remains baffled.  Allow me to offer a helpful photo of the Obama decision process in action.

Comments

[Gmax]

Nuance = incoherent

Word means exactly what I want them to mean, nothing more and nothing less. Isnt that from George Orwell? Why isn't that the campaign theme for Obama?

[bad]

Bush is looking downright eloquent by comparison.

[Danube of Thought]

Not ready for prime time. Not close to ready.

[bad]

BO should hire Scott McClellan to be his spokesmodel so to avoid future misunderstandings.

[kim]

When did Hummel get so bright?
=====================

[Pofarmer]

"The newspaper also quoted him as saying “we need to check” whether there were leaders with a “more sensible attitude” than that of Mr. Ahmadinejad."

So we're going to go around destabilizing the govt's of other countries by negotiating with whatever goon we want to be in charge. Brilliant. We'll just pick from a hat who we think their leaders should be.

"he said that he believed talks with Iran should begin at a low governmental level even if enrichment continued. But, he said, higher-level talks “will not be appropriate without some sense of progress.”"

Isn't that EXACTLY Bush's position? Right now we're negotiating through the EU, if Iran stops enriching the U.S. may come to the table.

[MayBee]

Commenters at ABC are saying the key to the brilliance is in the word "willing".
Obama would be willing to meet with Iran's leaders. Not that he would necessarily.

Has the US ever said that we wouldn't meet with Iran if the right conditions (not preconditions) were met?

As I commented over there, I really do wonder if Obama has any idea what we are currently doing regarding Iran.

[Ranger]

Commenters at ABC are saying the key to the brilliance is in the word "willing".
Obama would be willing to meet with Iran's leaders. Not that he would necessarily.

Posted by: MayBee | May 29, 2008 at 11:39 AM

This is sooo Clintonian. It sounds like Stephenopolis claiming that Bill really did keep all his campaign promises, despite reniging on the middle class tax cut because he "kept all the campaign promises he intended to keep."

[Chris]

Ivy League?

They have really lowered the bar, no?

[Danube of Thought]

It's OK if he meets with A-Jad, just so long as he remembers to take along his Arabic-speaking interpreters.

[MikeS]

This is just another one of Obama's dumb ideas, like attacking Pakistan or sending the wrong translators to Afghanistan.

Every time Obama speaks, we get a clearer picture of the man. It's like adding brush strokes to a painting or pixels to a digital image. As the picture of Barack becomes clearer, it becomes more unflattering to the man who wants to be a new kind of President.

The present subject is just another example of the man's unusually bad judgment. Barack disagreed with his advisers, who told him immediately that the unconditional talks idea was foolish. That represents the same kind of go it alone attitude he expressed when he spoke against the use of force in Iraq. At that time, even though 75% of Congress and 75% of the American people disagreed with him (that's a 3 to 1 ratio against him), Obama chose to believe that Saddam could be contained.

He reveals the same go it alone Obama Knows Best approach when he suggests discarding the multilateral diplomacy we've developed in collaboration with other countries, in favor of one on one talks.

[bad]

MikeS

Your not suggesting that BO is (gasp) a cowboy????? ready to pursue cowboy diplomacy????? I'm beginning to grasp the concept of CHANGE.

[MayBee]

You all will love this http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/obama-camp-trip.html>exchange:

McCain said today in Reno, "Sen. Obama has been to Iraq once a little over two years ago, he went and he has never seized the opportunity except in a hearing to meet with General Petraeus [the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq]."

Today Obama responded to a question about McCain's remarks with a laugh.

"That’s just a typical sarcastic comment that doesn’t haven’t anything to do with the substance and is patently untrue, since I just saw General Petraeus when he was testifying in Washington," he said.

Obama was challenged further, asking why he had not had meeting with Petraeus that was outside of a hearing.

"This is just a flip comment, it’s not designed to actually talk about substance," Obama responded curtly not answering why he had not held meeting with Petraeus. "It’s a political comment that doesn’t get anywhere."

Obama in his campaign trip to general election states this week has been solely focused on McCain, and he says he’s not surprised the Republicans and McCain have been focused so aggressively on him.

"So far this is pretty standard Republican fare," he said of the back-and-forth with McCain recently. "He’s adapted George Bush policies and he’s going to adopt George Bush's tactics. I don’t know why anybody would be surprised by that."

His answer to everything is going to be "this is typical divisive politics" followed by "George Bush".

[MikeS]

His answer to everything is going to be "this is typical divisive politics" followed by "George Bush".

Why won't people just leave him alone and let him eat his waffle. These questions about Obama's character and judgment are not helping Michelle's children!

[Pofarmer]

I beleive it was Rush saying Friday that McCain had invited Obama to go to Iraq with him on a "fact finding" tour. Obama refused. Which brings up the bit, that Obama is willing to meet with the leaders of Iran but not the leaders of Iraq?

[bad]

...Obama responded curtly..."

Katz has an article posted on Powerline comparing, but mostly contrasting, OB and John F. Kennedy. Katz mentions that OB seems to competely lack a sense of humor. Fatal flaw!!!!

[MikeS]

Your not suggesting that BO is (gasp) a cowboy?????

What I had in mind is something cowboys sometimes get on their boots, but your point is well taken!

[Rick Ballard]

OT,

A bump for one Clarice found - BHO's Days With The Camicie Azzurre. or Organizing The Plantations.

My distaste for this creature continues to grow.

[Soylent Red]

The more I see of this guy, the more he reminds me of that guy we all know: pretty smart, but always has a better answer. It's like he feels compelled to have the definitive answer on everything, and thus frequently shoots from the hip.

Now, you couple that with an arrogance that could light up Las Vegas, and you get a guy who isn't willing to admit he doesn't have all the answers, pulls stuff out of his ass, then stubbornly tells everyone how they misinterpreted what he said.

From that exchange with McCain, the guy doesn't even listen to what's been said about him before brushing it aside. He confessed to the very thing that McCain accused him of. Then got pissed when he realized his mistake.

McCain has got to get this guy locked in to about 20 or so debates. That seems to be the time when Obamessiah makes his most dogmatic and idiotic assertions.

[Danube of Thought]

I agree that the total lack of a sense of humor is a huge flaw, and one that will grow as there is more and more focus on it. And he is utterly incapable of admitting error of any kind--he just digs in his heels and argues more and more strenuously that whatever dumb thing he said was correct and wise.

I would like to hear more emphasis from McCain on the fact that Obama is the chairman of a Senate subcommittee on Afghanistan, and in that capacity has held not a single day of hearings--it's much more important that he become president.

[bad]

Clarice and Rick

Thanks for the link to the Kurtz article. The empty suit appears to have some substance that is downright scary. What does Billary know, when did they know it, and when were they planning to use it?

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

How about we call it Obama Answer Syndrome, or OAS?

Last night on O'Reilly, Dennis Miller said that when he looks at Obama he doesn't see the color of his skin, but he does see how thin it is.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

According to this article in The New Republic Al Qaeda is on the ropes:

Why have clerics and militants once considered allies by Al Qaeda's leaders turned against them? To a large extent, it is because Al Qaeda and its affiliates have increasingly adopted the doctrine of takfir, by which they claim the right to decide who is a "true" Muslim. Al Qaeda's Muslim critics know what results from this takfiri view: First, the radicals deem some Muslims apostates; after that, the radicals start killing them. This fatal progression happened in both Algeria and Egypt in the 1990s. It is now taking place even more dramatically in Iraq, where Al Qaeda's suicide bombers have killed more than 10,000 Iraqis, most of them targeted simply for being Shia. Recently, Al Qaeda in Iraq has turned its fire on Sunnis who oppose its diktats, a fact not lost on the Islamic world's Sunni majority.

Additionally, Al Qaeda and its affiliates have killed thousands of Muslim civilians elsewhere since September 11: hundreds of ordinary Afghans killed every year by the Taliban, dozens of Saudis killed by terrorists since 2003, scores of Jordanians massacred at a wedding at a U.S. hotel in Amman in November 2005. Even those sympathetic to Al Qaeda have started to notice. "Excuse me Mr. Zawahiri but who is it who is killing with Your Excellency's blessing, the innocents in Baghdad, Morocco and Algeria?" one supporter asked in an online Q&A with Al Qaeda's deputy leader in April that was posted widely on jihadist websites. All this has created a dawning recognition among Muslims that the ideological virus that unleashed September 11 and the terrorist attacks in London and Madrid is the same virus now wreaking havoc in the Muslim world.

[Neo]

What I really love (to hate) about all of this is that Obama hasn't really come up with anything that has at least been thought of or tried by the State Department under multiple administrations, but because he says it with such 'nuance' everything old is new again, at least to his admirers in the media.

Meanwhile, his backpedaling on the "no preconditions" has him boldly going toward the status quo on most of these matters.

Change ? Hope ? Nope.

[MayBee]

DoT:
I would like to hear more emphasis from McCain on the fact that Obama is the chairman of a Senate subcommittee on Afghanistan, and in that capacity has held not a single day of hearings--it's much more important that he become president.

Just before I read your words, I heard a Dem spokesman on MSNBC saying this was a ridiculous attack.
It is too "inside Washington", he said, to discuss whether Obama held committee meetings. What the American people want is leadership.

I swear to you this is what he said.

[ParseThis]

Butthead: He said 'precondition'. Heh-eh, Heh-eh.

Beavis: He said 'preparation'. Heh-eh, Heh-eh.

Butthead: Nuance.

Both: (blank stare)

[SukieTawdry]

Great, another nuancy boy.

[Neo]

Perhaps Obama will partake of the latest fad .. "chocolate bar" foreign aid.

I have this recollection from high school or college of a poster with a poor Indian (as in India) man with a "CARE" box filled with "Baby Ruth" candy bars and a pathetic look on his face.

[Danube of Thought]

"What the American people want is leadership."

Right. And where does America typically look for leadership? Why, to its community organizers, of course.

[Rick Ballard]

"What does Billary know, when did they know it, and when were they planning to use it?"

Bad,

She can't use that one. She's a bigger Alinsky parasite than BHO - it would backfire. The bacillus of progressivism depends upon a fairly heavy population density of parasites in order to gain control and when it does gain control it kills the host. Detroit and Milwaukee provide excellent examples, with Detroit leading the descent.

If one examines the 12% drop in total population in contrast to the 22% drop in the population of those under 5 years of age then a hypothesis concerning the flight of the healthiest segment of the population leads to a supposition that the host will actually succumb more quickly than the parasites had hoped. Both Milwaukee and San Francisco show evidence of an acceleration of the progressive rot which bodes ill for the medium term survival of their current political structure.

I won't argue that progressivism isn't an actual killer, the Russian example would make a mockery of any attempt to do so. My argument is that Alinskyite progressivism is unlikely to reach the "kill the host" stage regarding national political control unless the Watermelon's efforts to drive suburbanites back to the centers of pestilence succeed.

We are very fortunate that progressives are married so tightly to static analysis that they are incapable of change. Nature has an excellent remedy for parasites which are unable to adapt.

[PeterUK]

Europe backs Obama Presidency so he is bound to be Cyprinidae.

[Neo]

They said it was impossible ..

Iran in Secret Talks With al Qaeda, U.S. Officials Say

John McCain .. ahead of his time.

[Danube of Thought]

Remember, Iran is tiny, and is no threat to us. Also, remember that it's always been a grave threat.

[Rev Dr. E Buzz Miller]

The first Affirmative Action candidate.

More eloquent than a 9th grader who didn't prepare for an oral exam.

[LindaK]

Why is BO starting to make me want to reach for a big bottle of RAID?

Re ACORN. This association is very interesting because of ACORN's radicalism and illegal activities. Isn't ACORN funded by George Soros? Elsewhere, someone has drawn a connection between PublicAffairs, which not only published the McClellan tome, but is also the publisher of Soros' incoherent works.

[Danube of Thought]

From the Politico:

"Barack Obama’s favorability ratings among white women have significantly depreciated in recent months, particularly among Democrats and independents, posing an immediate obstacle for the likely Democratic nominee as he moves to shore up his party’s base.

"According to a new report by The Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, half of white women now have a negative perception of Obama.

"Forty-nine percent of white women view Obama unfavorably, while only 43 percent hold a favorable opinion. In February, 36 percent of these women viewed Obama unfavorably while 56 percent had a positive perception of the likely Democratic nominee."

Before it's over, this candidacy is going to be viewed as calamitous.

[Sdferr]

PUK

So you're pointing at a minnow? Or were you thinking of the Asian Silver Carp infesting the Illinois River and headed toward Lake Mich.?

[Thomas Collins]

My advice for B57O would be to remember the phrase "don't complain, don't explain." He shouldn't complain when GOPers criticize appeasement without mentioning his name, because complaining make folks wonder why he thinks HE is the one being called an appeaser. And stop explaining the remark, because it is unexplainable. It was a stupid thing to say, and one only hopes that if B57O really does become our POTUS, he didn't mean what he said.

[Rick Ballard]

DoT,

Politico is a place I don't go - did they bother to mention this nugget:

Favorable opinions of Obama among independent voters, who have provided him strong support in several of his primary election victories, also have declined over the course of the campaign. Obama's favorable ratings among this pivotal group have fallen from 62% in late February to just 49% in the current poll.

in their gargle?

The Pew studies have a tendency to bury the really bad news but their methodology and overall results stand up pretty well. It seems that BHO's rate of descent may be accelerating.

He's going to make a nice crater.

[PeterUK]

Sdferr

Definitely a load of carp.

[PeterUK]

Mr Ballard,
It's the smile,to start with it is a rather engaging smile,but the man keeps smiling it and it takes on the attributes of a toothpaste advert,with all the same sincerity.

[RichatUF]

He's going to make a nice crater.

I hope so, but do you think the Dem's would be bold enough to dump him on the side of the road on the way to Denver?

I caught a glimpse of Crissy on Softball yammering on about the book, and Mitchell and Chrissy agreed that McClellan probably didn't write much of the book. Seems that this "Hate Bush" campaign might be starting to backfire as well.

[Neo]

This out to require a whole heap of talking ..

At least three sites have been identified by U.S. officials and passed along to the International Atomic Energy Agency, which is negotiating with Syria for permission to conduct inspections in the country, according to U.S. government officials and Western diplomats. U.S. officials want to know if the suspect sites may have been support facilities for the alleged Al Kibar reactor destroyed in an Israeli air raid Sept. 6, the sources said.

[Neo]

link

[Rick Ballard]

"do you think the Dem's would be bold enough to dump him on the side of the road on the way to Denver?"

I've thought from the beginning that the purpose of Dean's (BHO's) campaign was to dump RW (and Bubba) while strengthening the Dems hold on the black bloc. That Pew poll used "kind of person" as a surrogate racial question - and as the beginning of a dolschtosslegende suitable for use by BHO as he assumes the mantle of "black leader" after his defeat in November. It will work, too. If BHO isn't indicted, he'll be around for a long time.

Face it, in terms of Dem goals, McCain as President just isn't going to be much different than RW as President - the Dems know they can get him going like a bobblehead doll any time they want to.

So the answer is no, the Dems aren't going to dump the chump - can you imagine what her payback would be like to the early BHO supporters if they did?

[PeterUK]

Neo,
Here is the missile to deliver it

[MikeS]

Obama's favorable ratings among this pivotal group have fallen from 62% in late February to just 49%
As the smoke clears and the picture becomes more distinct, more and more people see the same thing, Brocko Bam-boozler.

[JB]

Why does Obama think his imperiousness is going to play outside his cult? Maybe he just can't help himself.

He is going to alienate two thirds of the country before he's done running.

[bad]

JB

He has spent a great deal of time studying John Kerry who has succeeded at imperiousness.

[PeterUK]

Bad,

"He has spent a great deal of time studying John Kerry who has succeeded at imperiousness."

To do imperiousness,a man has to have imperious hair.

[Neo]

LOL

Olbermann joins the ranks of Al Franken .. tax deadbeat.

[Neo]

Woof. This McClellan "thing" is getting ugly.

The Left's favorite whipping boy during the 1st Bush term .. James Guckert / Jeff Gannon has weighed in with this ..

What I hear about the book does not sound like the Scott McClellan I knew for two years. I can say without fear of contradiction, that I knew Scott better than any other White House correspondent or Washington reporter…

[JB]

Rick, here's my question: does this strategy make sense demographically? It would seem Latinos and white blue-collars are the future, no?

What are the potential long-term costs of jettisoning RW and consolidating the black vote?

Particularly in light of the increasing Latino-black tensions in this country?

[Rick Ballard]

OT

Rich,

Take a look at Lula's expansion plan for Petrobras. The Petrobras rig count is going from 60 up to 100. I'd say that the Tupi/Sugar Loaf plays have a fair chance of actually exceeding the most optimistic initial estimates. I've read that the total investment is going north of $20 billion over the next seven years.

[Danube of Thought]

"Face it, in terms of Dem goals, McCain as President just isn't going to be much different than RW as President..."

Think about the federal judiciary. If McCain wins, Laurence Tribe ain't walking through that door.

It seems to me very unlikely that anyone who does not intend to vote for Obama as of this moment will come around to voting for him in the course of the next five months. On the other hand...

[RHSwan]

You guys just don't understand the words Obama is using. Sure he is not using the standard definition in the dictionary, but you are supposed to be nuanced enough to understand that.

[Danube of Thought]

From the Chicago Trib:

"You probably don't remember John Kerry's 76 electoral-vote trouncing of George W. Bush in 2004. That's because it didn't happen. But a rout of that magnitude is exactly what state-by-state polls were predicting at the end of May four years ago, as reported by electoral-vote.com. Through the magic of the Wayback Machine, you can see that those polls showed Kerry on track to beat Bush 307 electoral votes to 231, including projected victories in Iowa, New Mexico, West Virginia, Florida and Nevada. Kerry lost all those states in November..."

Do these dopes think it's going to be better this time around?

[centralcal]

"Do these dopes think it's going to be better this time around?"

Sadly, yes they do. So does their cheerleading media.

[Rick Ballard]

JB,

In order to maintain parity the Dems are going to continue to come to the center - as they did in '06. It's going to be quite crowded in the Muddle for a long time. I believe that the concept of a Latino bloc will dissipate more rapidly than did the concept of an Irish or Italian. It's true that people of Irish descent in MA are still reliable but that's not necessarily true of those who have dispersed. Same for Italians. Eventually it will be the same for blacks, it's just that right now the economic benefits of staying with the party are as high as they were for an Irishman in Boston 50-70 years ago. The only large scale Latino machine in operation at the moment is in LA - and it's not doing too well.

"Rational" progs are going to meet "compassionate" conservatives in the middle of the Muddle and continue to pluck the productive in order to pursue the cost shifting necessary to produce the illusion of "equality" or "caring", depending upon the label.

DoT,

Agreed about judges and justices but my bet is that McCain is going to spit up a Kennedy rather than an Alito or Roberts.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

OT, but a friend of JOM enjoys his tax dollars at work:

During this past week America sent a naval expedition to New York City via Fleet Week. ....

The big ship in town hosting the public has been the USS Kearsage, a big aircraft carrying, hovercraft carrying assault ship, loaded up with all the guns, light tanks, artillery and such that you'd ever want to pour onto an enemy beach. You walk on board, are greeted by marines and sailors who are kids, 18 or 20 years old ... and you see how they love their guns.

A parent bringing children on board...has a friendly, smiling marine greet them right away with "Hi, junior, what's your name? ...Well, Johnny, have you ever held an assault rifle before? Here, see how light it is? Your Super Soaker weighs more when it's loaded with water. Now try the trigger...." ...Ten-year, eight-year, six-year olds being introduced to the joy of assault rifles.

....Next display, the machine guns. The marines have a landing craft rigged up with all kinds pointing out in all directions. The little kids get lifted up there and rush right to them. ....Have you ever seen a 7-year-old pointing a .50-calibre machine gun and getting instructions on how to shoot it? "You pull this bolt back and the action works like this. Yeah!"

....On the way out we passed a lonely, classic M2 .50 caliber "Ma Duce" machine gun. The little kids being elsewhere, this one [my 13 year old] had a chance to try out. He's become a fan of engineering from watching some of the better cable TV channels, so I started to tell him about how the M2 is one of the great design and engineering achievements of last 100 years. It's original design and construction was so perfect that it is still being used virtually unchanged since the days shortly after World War I, and the military is still using stocks of it manufactured decades ago.

A passing marine, maybe 18 or 19 years old, overheard me and changed course to jump into the conversation. "You know your weapons, sir! This particular version of the M2 has been in use unchanged since 1954".

[JB]

Rick, so it's actually a conservative, short-term strategy? Interesting.

I guess the Obama narrative will serve to keep the "rational" progs and "compassionate" conservatives good-n-guilty as well.

It's going to be an annoying 12-16 years, but I guess I'll take them over an Obama presidency.

[Danube of Thought]

RickB: McCain's going to be very severely constrained about whom he can put on the federal bench by a very large Dem Senate majority. But the one thing he can do is simply refrain from sending up the kinds of nightmarish folks we would get from an Obama. We're very lucky we got Roberts and Alito when we did.

I'm seeing a series of ads starting around mid-September. The voice of Pierce Brosnan intones that "these are the three men whom Barack Obama named as his spiritual advisors in 2004," and then we cut to clips of the Revs. Wright, Weeks and Fleger in action. (If you haven't seen Fleger's act from yesterday, you will. It's wonderful! If these guys didn't exist, we'd have to invent them.)

[Sue]

DoT,

Absolutely amazing. He spoke with a black accent and they loved it. Isn't that pandering?

[Sue]

I heard him first on either Rush or Sean's radio show today. I already knew he was white, so the phoney accent threw me. Anyone else trying that would have been torn apart.

[Neo]

I aways thought that the Beatles "I'm Looking Thru You", especially the Anthology version, would be great for a political commercial.

Your lips are moving,
I cannot hear.
Your voice is soothing,
But the words aren't clear.

You don't sound different,
I've learnt the game.
I'm looking through you,
You're not the same.

[JB]

DoT: exactly. Obama gets a Ginsberg, McCain a Kennedy. At this point, I'd replace a Stevens with a Kennedy.

Yeah, one thing you DO NOT do is get between a whitey and his 401k. Wright could be the least of Obama's problems.

[Rick Ballard]

"At this point, I'd replace a Stevens with a Kennedy."

Me too. I'd be happy with two Kennedys if it meant Ginsberg was gone. BTW - I believe that a Dem shift to the middle will be a net positive for the country. Anything which cuts the influence of the 13%ers is a net positive.

Maybe Soros, Bing and Lewis will take up new hobbies.

[RichatUF]

ot:

Rick-

Pretty impressive regarding the news coming out of Brazil. I recall seeing something a while back that rents are surging on oil drilling equipment because Petrobas is out scarfing it all up.

Did notice that oil fell out of bed this morning, and noticed that a lot of commodities are 30%-40% off their highs.

And sort of on thread-say BHO's popularity has peaked and by Nov he is polling in the mid-to-high 30's (along the lines of what happened to McGovern). Doesn't this put in jeporday Dem gains that are being predicted? I can see the Dean strategy, but even with a stab-in-the-back explanation, I don't see how BHO fills a "national black leader" role with a substantial defeat and I don't see how it would really help the cause in the long term.

[bad]

Has Scottie been in Dr. Phil therapy? He sure uses "defining moments" a lot in his interviews.

[Danube of Thought]

Sorry I misspelled the guy's name; I think it's Pfleger. He seemed to me to be attempting an impersonation of Wright himself. This odd lust for the debasement of one's own is rather rare--Ramsey Clark comes to mind as another who seemed to derive a quasi-sexual pleasure out of self-abasement, as if he could somehow purify himself that way.

Oh, this is gonna go over big in Middle America.

And did you note the modern American form of the "apology?" He's not sorry for having done something vicious and wrong; he's only sorry "if" someone was offended. This is the state of Catholic theology today.

[Rick Ballard]

"I don't see how BHO fills a "national black leader" role with a substantial defeat and I don't see how it would really help the cause in the long term."

He'll still be sitting on that skinny butt in the Senate - a higher position than The Right Racist Reverends Jackson and Sharpton hold. The Dems need to hold the plantations and Obama is the man to do it. The Wright/Pflueger interleave of the necessity to write blacks checks of atonement needs a better spokesman than Conyers in the legislature.

"This is the state of Catholic theology today."

No it isn't. Pfleger is a remnant, representative of a hangover from the Berrigan days and that's it. I'm curious as to what his smackdown is going to look like - 'cause there will be one.

[narciso]

Surprisingly Larry Johnson didn't tell us about this; or did he, maybe he applied a Pfleger sermon to Michelle "Mybelle". On the McClellan story; any body found any
confirmable detail; his NBC interview reveals the same vacuousness we saw before.
It's interesting that no one offered him a flacking job somewhere; maybe he didn't take the hint. Any confirmable details forthcoming.?

[RichatUF]

Rick-

He'll still be sitting on that skinny butt in the Senate - a higher position than The Right Racist Reverends Jackson and Sharpton hold.

That's true, but I'd be curious about the rot in Illinois politics will spread and if he will be effective once the rot spreads onto him.

The Dems need to hold the plantations and Obama is the man to do it. The Wright/Pflueger interleave of the necessity to write blacks checks of atonement needs a better spokesman than Conyers in the legislature.

Hum...I understand the necessity to hold the plantations, however, it seems that his "post-racial" candidacy will send things backwards, making it more difficult to enact his radical agenda. Not sure...

[RichatUF]

narciso-

I'd be surprised if his book lasts until the weekend news cycle. Tim Russert probably doesn't want to revisit this well tilled ground. And to be honest, I was shocked to see Andrea "I'm Drunk" Mitchell on Goofball talking about the book. It's comfort food for the nutroots to hold them over until Denver.

I haven't been following much, but I'm holding out hope that this is "the straw that broke the camel's back".

[JB]

Rich, I think the distinction here is between national Democrat party politics and the 13% agenda of which Obama is clearly a part.

They just want to keep power. Whether from center-left or left.

BTW, check out this talkleft thread:

What's going on at Trinity Church?

[JB]

What's going on at Trinity Church?

[RichatUF]

JB-

the distinction here is between national Democrat party politics and the 13% agenda of which Obama is clearly a part.

They just want to keep power. Whether from center-left or left.

I need some coffee to keep up tonight. Even if, in Rick's words, the "'Rational' progs going to meet "compassionate" conservatives in the middle of the Muddle" the left flank is going to be a continuous source of embarrassment for those so called "blue dog" dems. The top reaches of the DNC are those "13%ers"-if they weren't, BHO wouldn't be on cruise control to the nomination. And it is going to be the "13%er's" that drive policy-whether fast or slow.

[Rick Ballard]

"making it more difficult to enact his radical agenda"

Rich,

The prog "radical agenda" involves keeping the dolts on the plantations stirred up just enough to keep returning the prog pols to their phoney baloney jobs. I've actually spent an hour or so looking over BHOtwaddle at his site. "Stupid" is a much better fit than "radical".

[GnuCarSmell]

I have begun to decode Obamaspeak. "Nuanced" means "I never really thought that through."

This guy increasingly reminds me of those surveys that measure young people's knowledge of American history and geography. Obama's like the 60% who can't pick out which decade the Civil War was fought in, or point to Missouri on a map.

[Danube of Thought]

Everyone knows that it's desirable that one's opponents be stupid--Sun Tzu probably sadi something to that effect, but as far as I can recall I think Clausewitz, Jomini and the others simply assumed that we all knew that going in.

But how stupid dare one pray that his opponents will be? Would anyone have dared to hope that, following on the heels of Reverend Wright, divine providence would bestow on us the likes of Father Pfleger? Not in my wildest dreams...

Oh, my dear friends, file this one away. You'll be seeing more of this fine fellow in due course, whether he wants it that way or not. You heard it here first.

[Sue]

This guy increasingly reminds me of those surveys that measure young people's knowledge of American history and geography.

Reminds me of a bonus question on a test in junior high, now called middle school, or something. What year was the war of 1812 fought? I kept looking at it thinking it has to be a trick question. But what was the trick? So I wrote the obvious answer and received my bonus points. I was stunned, even at that young age, when the teacher announced only 2 people got the answer right. I don't really have a point here, other than sometimes the answer really is in the question.

[vnjagvet]

Like the old Groucho Marx question for the consolation prize on "You Bet Your Life" , Sue:

"Who was buried in Grant's Tomb?"

[RichatUF]

DoT-

You'll be seeing more of this fine fellow in due course, whether he wants it that way or not.

BHO has all the bases covered regarding the kook religious left. When JOMers were unpacking the Rezko-BHO Manse deal, I noticed that a far left rabbi, who helped organized the Chicago "Win Without War" protests, is among that happy family. I think BHO lives across the street from the synagogue.

Interesting bit from AT yesterday, and healthy in the long run that the religious left is being exposed on a national stage.

Rick-

I've actually spent an hour or so looking over BHOtwaddle at his site. "Stupid" is a much better fit than "radical".

Hope and Change.

[vnjagvet]

JB:

That thread is very interesting. Even plukasiak, who trolls here from time to time, is worried.

All is not well in leftyville.

[ben]

From Townhall....

"A Las Vegas judge has issued a felony arrest warrant for a politically connected Chicago businessman whose ties to Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama have become an issue in the campaign.

Antoin “Tony” Rezko, who is standing trial on federal corruption charges in Chicago, is wanted in Las Vegas for failing to pay $472,275 in gambling debts to Caesars Palace and Bally’s and related processing fees to the Clark County district attorney’s office.

The total unpaid Strip bill comes to more than $800,000, however, because the Bellagio obtained a judgment of default against Rezko a year ago for not repaying $331,000 in gambling markers.

A federal jury has been deliberating Rezko’s fate the past two weeks following two months of testimony in a corruption trial linked to the administration of Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich."

Obama will probably be issuing a statement soon that he is "saddened" by the news, and that this deadbeat is not the "Tony he knew".

[GnuCarSmell]

"What year was the war of 1812 fought? I kept looking at it thinking it has to be a trick question. But what was the trick? So I wrote the obvious answer and received my bonus points."

Sue - You were wiser than me. We had a bonus question in American history: "What was President Woodrow Wilson's wife's name?" I had no idea, so I guessed Mary or Elizabeth or whatever. The correct answer was .... Mrs. Wilson. (headsmack!)

[Sue]

Gnu,

Now that is a trick question. I would have been looking for a first name too. No headsmack required.

[Sue]

http://media.nationalreview.com/>Check the 2 stories at Media Blog about Phleger. Obama has scrubbed him from his website, though MB has a google cache so it isn't really gone, and his earmarks to Phleger's church.

[Elliott]

According to the NYT story cited at the Media Blog, Pfleger's youth center received $100,000 in congressional largesse, i.e., an earmark from Senator Obama.

I can see this making its way into the debates:

Obama: I have the utmost respect for Senator McCain's service to our country, but more of the same failed Bush policies, more turning of the same Washington revolving doors will not produce the change the American people so desperately crave.

McCain: It is important to work across the aisle to find common ground and solutions. That's why I've done it throughout my time in Congress. In fact, I even invited Senator Obama to work with a few of us on a serious ethics reform bill, not one passed simply as a PR gambit.

Senator Feingold and I are very proud to have reformed our constitution campaign finance system, just as I'm sure Senator Obama is very proud to have reformulated his position on public financing.

I will be especially proud to put a stop to earmarks. When members of Congress have the power to steer money to specific programs it is an invitation to corruption. Several former members of Congress have RSVP'ed and are now in jail. I wish that Senator Obama had been serious about wanting to work with me on this important issue, but I don't doubt he takes great pride in his earmarks to his wife's employer and Michael Pfleger, one of his now disavowed political supporters. Neither in the House nor in the Senate have I never requested an earmark. Earmarks won't make it past my desk when I am President.

Obama: The truth is I strengthened the ethics reform bill and I brought transparency to the earmark process. Unfortunately, Senator McCain's attack on me is the kind of attempt to score cheap political points that has come to characterize our politics. It divides us and distracts us from the real issues. I find this holier-than-thou tone a little strange too coming from someone who not only was embroiled in the Keating Five scandal but whose wife was involved in a business venture with Charles Keating.

[MayBee]

Hmmm. Obama has been very hesitant to release his earmark information (past last year) and tax returns public. I think I might be seeing why....

[scoopa]

WOW - CNN actually did a serious story on BHO's ruthless tactics in Chicago to get his opponents disqualified from their petition ballots. The reporter was not happy with the way Barry's campaign responded - accused CNN of a hit job, etc! Loving this.....pass the popcorn.

[Elliott]

I think it's Pfleger. He seemed to me to be attempting an impersonation of Wright himself. This odd lust for the debasement of one's own is rather rare...

Would in Pflegrante (delicto) be the right term for this sort of thing?

[glasater]

Here is a link to the CNN report.

Obama Played Hardball in First Chicago Campaign

If names were printed instead of signed in cursive writing, they were declared invalid. If signatures were good but the person gathering the signatures wasn't properly registered, those petitions also were thrown out.

[bgates]

Elliott, that was pitch-perfect. I can hear McCain and Obama reading their parts.

I really don't understand that CNN report. Are they trying to get the story out now while Obama has the primary locked up but the general hasn't started, so they can go back to all-halo all the time coverage in the fall?

[glasater]

Wright took a year to get out. Perhaps the timeframe on this one will be shortened appropriately.

This Pfleger story could drown it out I afraid.

[Jane]

According to the NYT story cited at the Media Blog, Pfleger's youth center received $100,000 in congressional largesse, i.e., an earmark from Senator Obama.

I can see this making its way into the debates:

It damn well better!

Chris Wallace has a special on Sat nite about politicians who have awarded earmarks to enrich themselves. I believe it is Sat at 8:00 PM. He's outraged that legislators are simply shoving money in their own pockets (without the middleman) and no one investigates, or anything else.

[Jane]

OT: This is amazing. LUN

[Elliott]

Thanks, bgates.

[bad]

Obama playing hardball in the petition drive is particularly interesting in light of his association with ACORN.

[Elliott]

Also, didn't Mr. "I don't comment on pending cases" file an amicus brief in favor of overturning Indiana's voter ID law?