More Praise Than Links

Megan McArdle is cogent on cap and trade versus carbon taxes, we are told by no less an eminence than Prof. DeLong (with a follow-up, and something from Marginal Revolution).

Let me add that Barack Obama picked up both candor and wonkery points at one of the many, many debates by noting that cap and trade does not represent a free lunch relative to carbon taxes.  C'mon, doesn't anyone in the blogosphere support this guy?

I will also toss in my two cents in response to this from DeLong:

...there are two third-order differences:

• It's easier to get not-too-bright Republicans to vote against something that is actually in their long-run interest if you can demagogue it by calling it a tax.
• It's easier to get not-too-bright Democrats to vote for something that actually is not in their long-run interest if you can demagogue it by claiming that it's just a restriction on the behavior of corporations and not something that directly impacts people.

Ain't it the truth.  However, cap and trade does have an historic and intellectual pedigree that separates it from some other conventional taxes.

First, cap and trade meshes neatly with the notion of pollution as a failure of property rights; if I owned the air, and the right to pollute it, I would auction to Exxon and Barbra Streisand the right to emit carbon dioxide and other pollutants (or not).  If you owned the air, you would do the same.  However, since no one owns it, the level of pollution is well above any sort of social optimum, and there is not direct market mechanism to bring it down.  Google on "the tragedy of the commons", which is often repeated as "the comedy of the commons"  (Yes, I sit around all day thinking these thoughts...). 

Secondly, early cap and trade schemes in the environmental arena were not put forward as an alternative to taxes; they were put forward as an alternative to the command and control rules of the EPA, with the idea that compliance with a mandated target could be acieved more efficiently if the industry swapped pollution allowances and cleaned up the easy-to-clean pollution emitters first.  I am thinking of the 1990 reform to the Clean Air Act and the cap/trade system for sulfur dioxide when I say this.

A long extract from the Times of May 17, 1989:

 

To a generation of environmental advocates hardened by trench warfare with business, the only good polluter is a repentant polluter. But to economists, pollution is a necessary evil: the best way to cope with it is to figure out how much is too much and then let private markets decide who can clean it up most efficiently. This market-based approach has also gained powerful allies in Congress and even in environmental groups. Agreement on Cause and Effect 

After a decade of investigation, there is no longer any serious dissent from the view that acid rain is largely caused by sulfur emissions from coal- and oil-burning electric power plants. Nor is there much doubt that acid rain is damaging forests and lakes in the Northeast and Canada. President Bush, reversing the stance of the Reagan Administration, has pledged to support some sort of legislation to reduce those emissions. 

The strategy long favored by most Congressional Democrats and environmental groups is to set a limit on the amount of sulfur that can be emitted by utility boilers. 

Many utilities, it was assumed, would meet the standard by switching from high-sulfur coal extracted by members of the United Mine Workers in the East and Midwest to low-sulfur coal from the West, coal largely mined by nonunion workers. 

Thus, to win the support of the A.F.L.-C.I.O. and coal-state members of Congress, proponents of acid-rain legislation have generally agreed that some plants should be denied the option to use low-sulfur coal. These plants would be required to use ''scrubbers,'' special equipment on smokestacks that removes sulfur by a chemical reaction. 

One such proposal, the 1988 bill sponsored by Senator George J. Mitchell, a Maine Democrat who then headed a subcommittee on environmental protection, would have effectively required such scrubbers on about 55 older coal plants by 1995. The installation costs would have been subsidized with a tax on electricity produced in all high-sulfur plants. Regional Allowances 

A cheaper, market-based alternative, argues Dan Dudek, an economist for the Environmental Defense Fund, would be to set the maximum tonnage of sulfur emissions permitted from an entire region - the 31 states east of the Great Plains, for example. 

Utilities would then be issued permits to pollute, with emissions linked to past rates of discharge. A big utility in the Midwest with aging plants that have always burned high-sulfur coal might end up with rights to dump a half-million tons of sulfur a year, while a small-town electricity co-op operating an emissions-free hydropower power plant would receive none at all. 

The limit in total emissions, and each utility's share of the tonnage, would be ratcheted down over time, with a goal of, say, cutting sulfur output in half within 15 years. 

According to studies by ICF Inc., a respected environmental consultant in Virginia, scrubbers would remain the cheapest way for some utilities to stay within emissions limits; the tighter the constraint on total tonnage, the larger the number of plants likely to need scrubbers. But others, Mr. Dudek believes, would adopt alternative strategies. 

They might switch to low-sulfur coal or try new technologies that remove sulfur without scrubbers. Or they might limit the use of their most polluting plants to periods of peak electricity demand. Yet another strategy would be to retire older plants, replacing them with natural-gas fired units or offering subsidies to customers to invest in high-efficiency appliances and lighting fixtures.

Intellectually, some sort of sulfur tax would have been a plausible path to a solution.  As a practical matter, Congress chose between direct mandates and a flexible trading system.

Comments

[kim]

The term 'carbon footprint' needs to change to 'energy footprint'. That would clean up the rhetoric tremendously, perhaps enough to get on with the real problems of sanely and sanitarily supplying energy to many billions of human souls.
===============

[Neo]

The Army is weighing in on the global warming debate, claiming that climate change is not man-made. Instead, Dr. Bruce West, with the Army Research Office, argues that "changes in the earth’s average surface temperature are directly linked to ... the short-term statistical fluctuations in the Sun’s irradiance and the longer-term solar cycles."

...
West acknowledges that the IPCC and other scientific groups have "conclude[d] that the contribution of solar variability to global warming is negligible." He argues that these groups have done a poor job modeling the Sun's impact, however, and that's why they have "significantly over-estimated" the "anthropogenic contribution to global warming."

[kim]

A commenter named leebert, described as 'the new kim' on DotEarth writes very sensibly about climate, and he is a believer in 'soot' as the cause of the Arctic melt and much else. Soot is actually an easily solvable problem compared to CO2, which, of course, I don't think is much of a problem at all. I believe, in fact, that if we are headed into extended cooling a la a Maunder Minimum, then CO2 can help feed and warm much of humanity. With any luck, when the sun starts heating the earth again, we will have discovered the true sensitivity of climate to CO2 and can regulate effectively and wisely then, if necessary.
========================

[kim]

Yes, Neo, not only is the mechanism by which the sun drives, if it does, the climate unknown, but the IPCC has constitutionally ignored, and scientifically criminally ignored, the effect of the sun. It is little known, but the IPCC was constructed, and is mandated, to explore man's contribution to the climate. There is no doubt that man has some climatic effect, see Pielke Pere, but the UN and its multitudes of scientists have, from the beginning, ignored the natural determinants of climate.

It has really all been a mass delusion. Sociologists and scientists will talk about this case when Galileo becomes a small episode with religious idealogues unable to fathom physical mechanics. This carbon/climate business is much more grandiose.
================

[Rick Ballard]

"the level of pollution is well above any sort of social optimum, and there is not direct market mechanism to bring it down"

Snort.

"Look, we're gonna have to get together and kill Og. Bringing that fire into the cave is getting soot all over the place and there's no other feasible solution to maintaining the cleanliness that we enjoyed in the past. I say kill him and forbid the use of fire forever. If we were meant to have fire we would have been born with a BIC in our hands."

[kim]

Don't sacrifice my virgins for your superstitions.
==========================

[PeterUK]

If there were global warming and rising seas there would be distinct changes in the patterns of real estate prices and sales.Any beach front properties going cheap?

Sorry Mr Ballard,Soot is essential to Og's art,no soot, no cave paintings.

[Neo]

It's always nice when the politicians try to create a solution to a non-problem, or as with bio-fuels, they manage to screw up one sector of the economy in order to "fix" another sector.

What we have here a a major upsurption of a portion of the free market economy with a government structure that isn't needed, except to fill the pockets of Al Gore's venture capital buddies et al.

[Rick Ballard]

Sorry, Mr Uk, The Committee of Right Thinkers for Societal Optimization has determined that Og's work is not art.

He gets the knock. It really is much better this way. Cleaner, really.

[Clarice]

I have an idea. I want each of you to stir up recall petisions against your Senators (no recalls are permitted for House members though one W Va Congressman didn't know that and labelled a satiric recall movement against him as "purely political"). Why? There's only one thing that really matters to these stupid fops..staying in office. They will forego coming to D.C. and further mucking up our economy IF ONLY you will all do your part to keep them otherwise occupied.
I'm begging you!

[Clarice]

**petiTions***

[cathyf]

I think that the notion that anthropomorphic CO2 is going to have some offsetting effect to the Maunder Minimum which is getting under way is just a little too cute. I don't believe in anthropomorphic global warming or anthropomorphic global cooling myself.

If we set in place an effective global carbon tax we will surely kill tens of millions of the world's poorest and most vulnerable people, but that will be through the economic devastation. The climate will be unaffected...

[Clarice]

Well, cathyf , what else are we to do? The ban on DDT and the rise in food prices caused by govt meshugas are just not working fast enough.

[PeterUK]

Mr Ballard,
No fire means no burnt stick,no burnt stick means no chargrilled woolly mammoth escallops with a piquant nettle sauce.This means back to eating whatever you can find dead before the wolves do.Back to a diet of indeterminate deceased rodents and anything else you can face raw.
Besides what about the chain of McMammoths?

[bad]

If we set in place an effective global carbon tax we will surely kill tens of millions of the world's poorest and most vulnerable people, but that will be through the economic devastation. The climate will be unaffected...

How much methane is released from a corpse?

[Rick Ballard]

Mr Uk,

We are all born with canine teeth suitable for ripping gobbets of raw flesh from anything that we choose to eat. This notion of "cooking" is wholly unnatural and an offense in the Great Eye of Gaia. I would suggest that some care be exercised in the spread of such unwholesome notions. In fact, I shall suggest that they be taxed when The Committee of Right Thinkers for Societal Optimization next meets.

[PeterUK]

Mr Ballard,
I await,with the utmost interest,the sinking of your canines into a passing woolly mammoth and "ripping gobbets of raw flesh from "it.
Admittedly a renewable resource, since the beast would not notice.
Now if I could interest you in this rather neat bit of stone fastened to a stick,very green,silica and organic.The Igs have bought one,found it indispensable since Ig lost his teeth last year,mind you he is 22 and was a big mammoth.

[Clarice]

If you'd just carve a couple of backward facing C's on that stick we could sell them for a bundle at the place where the two rivers cross,PUK.

[LindaK]

Now that Marxism and socialism have been discredited, saving the planet from evildoing polluters becomes the way to control behavior.

Perhaps we should demand that these politicians purchase carbon credits during their CO2-emiting debate? And I don't think we'll be allowed to eat wooley mammoths. They are endangered.

[Syl]

I'm not so sure Dr. West is entirely correct. But the coming years will show us how much this cooling period is driven by the quiet sun. Even if we're only cooling temporarily due to the PDO flip and the recent strong la nina, the amount of cooling the past year goes way beyond what should be happening if the warmists were even close to being 'correct'.

Kim

haven't seen you over at dotearth for a while. I don't read all the threads, letalone comment all the time though so I may have just missed you lately.

[Crunchy Frog]

News from New Zealand is that they have developed a vaccine to severely diminish (by 3/4) the 95% of the country's methane output attributable to the nation's sheep and cattle flatulence.

No word as of yet on whether this would also work on the vegetarian human population.

[Danube of Thought]

Here's the Universal Theory that accounts for all of this crap: These people have simply gone mad.

[PeterUK]

Clarice,
Stones on sticks are the next big thing,SCAM has cornered the market in flint and obsidian.

[Rick Ballard]

"These people have simply gone mad."

Hardly. The EPA should be awarded the PT Barnum "One Born Every Minute" medal for tapping the mother lode of ignorance. McCain is following Bush's lead in "compassionate conservation" idiocy and Obama can't be faulted for running to the head of the parade and banging his little tin drum.

It's just a damn shame that Capitol Hill isn't a volcano. There's nothing wrong that a sudden and wholly unexpected eruption wouldn't fix.

[bad]

From Politico:

Sen. Barack Obama on Thursday batted down rumors circulating on the Internet and mentioned on some cable news shows of the existence of a video of his wife using a derogatory term for white people, and criticized a reporter for asking him about the rumor, which has not a shred of evidence to support it.

“We have seen this before. There is dirt and lies that are circulated in e-mails and they pump them out long enough until finally you, a mainstream reporter, asks me about it,” Obama said to the McClatchy reporter during a press conference aboard his campaign plane. “That gives legs to the story. If somebody has evidence that myself or Michelle or anybody has said something inappropriate, let them do it.”

Asked whether he knew it not to be true, Obama said he had answered the question.

“Frankly, my hope is people don’t play this game,” Obama said. “It is a destructive aspect of our politics. Simply because something appears in an e-mail, that should lend it no more credence than if you heard it on the corner. Presumably the job of the press is to not to go around and spread scurrilous rumors like this until there is actually anything, an iota, of substance or evidence that would substantiate it.”

[JM Hanes]

bad:

Wow, Obama sounds exactly like Bill Clinton did with reporters in SC! That's a good sign, I think, no?

[bad]

It's just a damn shame that Capitol Hill isn't a volcano. There's nothing wrong that a sudden and wholly unexpected eruption wouldn't fix.

From your keyboard, Rick, to God's ear...

[bad]

JM Hanes

It does sound a bit parsey.

[hit and run]

If somebody has evidence that myself or Michelle or anybody has said something inappropriate, let them do it.

..."for I have been assure by Soros operatives that any possible copy of anything said by Michelle or me that could in any way be, shall we say "distracting" has been properly disposed of."

[PaulL]

The non-denial denial of the Michelle tape is even more obvious than the lack of comment on rumors of Obama selling drugs. He never denied that either. The press just acted like it was outrageous to even imagine such a thing.

[Danube of Thought]

My 5:53 post should read "Unified Theory." (Could it be that I, too, have gone mad? In about an hour I'm gonna have a large Martini and think about it; then I'm gonna watch the Lakers dismantle the Celtics.)

Far be it from me to sympathize with Obama on anything at all, but I believe I'm with him on this tape stuff. If Crazy Larry has now cemented his reputation as a lunatic and a simpleton, I suppose it's all worth it.

[Rick Ballard]

Bad,

Maybe "You've Had Your Chance" should become the general election slogan this year. The utter stupidity of imposing a carbon tax on a planet with carbon based life - with the tax (whether its called by 'cap and trade' or any other idiotic nomenclature) embraced by politicians of both parties indicates that the pols may have finally underestimated the intelligence of the polity. I didn't really think that was possible but I may have been wrong.

[hit and run]

Dot:
My 5:53 post should read "Unified Theory."

Heh, well, I put up a post the other day using the phrase "unified theory of gaffes". For some undisclosed reason I was trying to find the link to that post -- so I googled the phrase.

Interestingly enough, when I googled that phrase, indeed, my post comes up first. But the post that comes up third? (ignore the mother jones article that comes up second)

A Mickey Kaus post. From 2000 (8 years ago, 3 weeks from tomorrow, to be exact). In which he is trying to come up with a "Unified Bush theory" to help Gore with an approach to defeat W.

Eh, is that interesting? I don't know.

But Kaus's unified Bush theory boiled down into a statement?

"What's he hiding?"

I think that is perfect for Obama.

Why is everything a distraction?
What with Rezko, Wright, Meeks, Pfleger...etc...what/who else is he hiding?
Hell, why can the 71 year old candidate release all of his medical records and the 23 year old (I'm guessing, Obama may be a little older than that) only release a one page report from his physician?

Etc.

Waiting to hear back from Mickey to see if he thinks it fits with Obama now...

[bad]

Rick

My mother, a widow, is scared to death that she will not be able to afford to live should this idiocy become law. She, her friends, her sisters and their spouses, see this as a reason to vote against any candidate who is for it. I'd bet they are not alone.

[bad]

My mother, a widow, is scared to death that she will not be able to afford to live should this idiocy become law. She, her friends, her sisters and their spouses, see this as a reason to vote against any candidate who is for it. I'd bet they are not alone.

Sorry, accidently posted before I finished. All of the above referenced people are without political affiliation. This issue trumps all others.

[kim]

cf, we don't know the climate sensitivity to CO2, therefore it is only speculative to ascribe effect to it yet. Probably the effect is around 1 degree Centigrade for each doubling of CO2 concentration, but truly, no one knows with the range of guesses going from zero to 11 degrees Centigrade and the finest physicists and meterologists fighting tooth and temperature with each other about the value. Most, maybe all, of the computer models used by the IPCC make inadequate assumptions in the modeling of water vapor and clouds, and exaggerate the effect of CO2. Carbon dioxide has a distinct air fertilization effect on plants.
============================

[PeterUK]

One sure way to end this madness would be to put a draconian carbon tax on marijuana.

[kim]

syl, schadenfreunde leads me to early satiety. I said my say over there repeatedly; Andy Revkin heard me, and you know, the record is there. He promises a sociological analysis of that AGU thread. At Climate Progress, where Joe Romm took less than two days to ban me, I told Dano that he has a chance to become a famous fool. All he has to do is stop restraining himself as the paradigm collapses.

We few, we fortunate few.
================

[kim]

Pete, warn the Quartermaster to raid Grainger for cheap box fans for tomorrow night. Intelligence estimates shouldn't be stuffy.
================================

[Clarice]

PUK,flint and obsidian are fine and I'm glad we've cornered the market in them, but man (ahem or woman) can't live on utilitarian items alone. I think the big money is in fancy totes--you know leather, leopard pelts, cured snake skins-- to carry that stuff around in.

[MayBee]

“That gives legs to the story. If somebody has evidence that myself or Michelle or anybody has said something inappropriate, let them do it.”

Better answer: It is impossible for such a tape to exist, because Michelle and I have never uttered words like the tape is supposed to contain....

[kim]

But otherwise, cf, I'm in complete agreement with your 3:42 post. I'd estimate the loss of humans living on the margin in the hundreds of millions, but it entirely depends on the length and depth of the cooling. My best guess is 30-50 years, and around 2 degrees Centigrade, which will be dramatic enough. You are absolutely right about the fearful danger of installing carbon encumbrances, at this time. Plenty of time later when we rewarm, and know the true sensitivity of climate to CO2.

Personally, I think fossil fuels will be priced out of the energy market long before that. We need all those lovingly created hydrocarbon bonds for structure to clothe and shelter the burgeoning billions.
======================

[kim]

Clarice, that stuff is all sustainable. The ethics of fur and natural coverings is impeccable.
======================

[Larry]

"After a decade of investigation, there is no longer any serious dissent from the view that acid rain is largely caused by sulfur emissions from coal- and oil-burning electric power plants. Nor is there much doubt that acid rain is damaging forests and lakes in the Northeast and Canada." Later studies proved that pre-industrial lakes and streams in North America were much more acidic than in modern times.

[hit and run]

I don't know which thread this should go on...

For Jane:

Our Spingfield reporter Dave McKinney reports that Democratic White House hopeful Barack Obama would not pardon Tony Rezko if elected president.

"Obama campaign spoeskman Ben LABolt said the senator would not act to wipe away Rezko's felony convictions or commute any prison time he might serve as a result of Wednesday's verdict.

[Jane]

Hit,

I don't believe him - just on principle, but I hope Rezko sings like a bird.

I'm gonna watch the Lakers dismantle the Celtics.)

DOt,

I like it better when we are on the same side. To the death and all that.

[PeterUK]

Clarice,
I was thinking of something more green.Anything cuddly is a no no,so the research department is looking into the possibility of Fair Trade, hand woven arugula accessories.

[kim]

The latest study uses tree rings(delicious irony) to link drought and the 200 year de Vries solar cycle.
============================

[hit and run]

Jane:
To the death and all that.

No, let's keep the Princess Bride theme going.

To the pain!

[Danube of Thought]

Jane, I assume that in this lone instance you are on the side of the scumbags with the leprechaun and all that, right?

Hit, what I was grasping for was something I think Einstein pursued to the end of his life, i.e. a Unified Force Field Theory (or something like that) which would demonstrate that magnetism, gravity and the force that bonds the nuclei of atoms were all manifestations of the same thing. He believed that to be the case, but was unable to prove it, and no one has done so since.

[AT]

If somebody has evidence that myself or Michelle or anybody has said something inappropriate, let them do it.

Did he really say that? I wonder if all his supporters will tolerate much more of this.

[Elliott]

No, let's keep the Princess Bride theme going.

Barack's ahead.

[hit and run]

Heh, DoT, I understand. I just found the use of the phrase to be too good to pass up sharing my experience today.

As far as sports -- I just weep. Not that I really was rooting for the Penguins, necessarily, just that, well, let's face it, I don't have a particular fondness for the Red Wings.

As far as the NBA? Feh.

Here's a quote after game 5 in the triple overtime win in which the Penguins forced the futile game 6...

With Jiri Hudler serving a 4-minute penalty for high-sticking Rob Scuderi and causing a cut, Sykora wound up in the right circle and ripped a drive past Chris Osgood to end the marathon that lasted 4 1/2 hours and ended at 12:46 a.m.

“I was just praying for blood,” Scuderi said.

Praying for blood.

Hockey is a man's sport.

[hit and run]

Elliott...this was interesting:

Additionally, last night’s polling shows that 78% say they could vote for an African-American for President. But, only 56% believe their family, friends and co-workers are willing to do the same.

Accounting for the, "I ain't racist, but I bet my neighbor is" vote.

[PeterUK]

This is a better blood sport, George Galloway endorses Obama

[Clarice]

I had expected that Obama's lead in the polls would be greater now that he's got it wrapped up. I don't think that Rasmussen poll is all that good news for him.

[hit and run]

No, still too soon to see the bump. The Rasmussen poll is a dead heat.

Let's see what happens when Hillary, eh, whatever she does on Friday.

Does she graciously concede and throw her full weight (including those considerable cankles) behind Barry?

Does she hedge, concede but stay coy on her full-throated (Bill, this is not about you, keep quiet!) support?

Etc.

For now, Hillary supporters (as in the peeps, not the supers) are still in a holding pattern.

I still say she's in the driver's seat in terms of next steps. Sure, he's got the nomination -- but she's driving the VP discussion, not him.

[PeterUK]

I would expect Obama and all things Obamian to come under more scrutiny now he is the only contender.Also the anti RW contingent will fall away.The situation for the Democrats is more delicate than before, everything rests on this tyro with a CV skinnier than a supermodel.

[Elliott]

From The Page that Time begot, Also Sprach Barackthustra: “I am a big believer in making decisions well — not making them fast and not responding to pressure.”

But not a practitioner of same, I aver.

...but I bet my neighbor is

He said, "To bluff."

[Elliott]

Let's see what happens when Hillary, eh, whatever she does on Friday.

I was wondering today whether Obama's about face on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps will have any effect. It has to rankle, given the barrage of attacks to which Clinton was subjected for holding the position Obama has now embraced.

[RichatUF]

Clarice and Rick (and sorry for going off topic)-

I sent my AIPAC write up to Thomas Lifson at AT and I copied it to Rick. Many thanks.

[Elliott]

Hit and Run,

As the 44th President of the United States will be a southpaw, he will be at a considerable disadvantage when having a Princess Bride quote-off.

[hit and run]

PUK:
I would expect Obama and all things Obamian to come under more scrutiny now he is the only contender.

Scrutiny from whom?

Aside from Jake Tapper at ABC, I am at a loss as to who would be willing to confront the thrill going up Chris Matthews's leg?

[hit and run]

Rich, I am very glad you didn't see or didn't heed my call in the thread where your AIPAC comments were originally recorded.

That is, in the name of getting them published.

[bad]

I would expect Obama and all things Obamian to come under more scrutiny now he is the only contender.

How can one scrutinize a black, Democrat presidential nominee? That would be racist.

[bad]

And let's not forget that BO has already decreed a number of areas of possible scrutiny to be off limits.

[RichatUF]

HEH. I saw it, and what the hell was I thinking. Maybe I should hit the National Review mailserver and say-hit and run made me do it.

I got a bit inspired. We'll see.

[bad]

MSNBC announcing Clinton and Obama holding secret meeting in her home.

I'm not going there.... so to speak...wink, wink, nudge, nudge,

[kim]

What I want to know, Rich, is was there a tingle running through your fingers?
==================

[Neo]

George Galloway endorses Obama

Didn't George get the memo about Hamas withdrawling their endorsement ?

[hit and run]

bad:
MSNBC announcing Clinton and Obama holding secret meeting in her home.

Dood. He calls her to congratulate her on the night he secured the nomination -- and she simply decides to not pick up. the winner calling the loser and the loser sending him to voicemail?

Now he goes to her house to hold the secret meeting.

Seriously.

This is the man that thinks he can convince us that he won't be made an abject fool when negotiating with the likes of Ahmadinejad?

Hillary's got him running around like a, well, like a little Obama.

I said it you know where:

Obama has won the nomination – yet Hillary has secured all the leverage in the relationship.

Prove me wrong, Obama. It would be ok with me for you to do so.

[hit and run]

Neo:
Hamas withdrawling their endorsement ?

I love typos!!!

I withdrawl all the time.

Especially on Saturday mornings after a, well, adventurous Friday night.

"That comment you say I said is NOT the hit and run I've ::hic:: known for thirty ::hic:: sumptin years."

[cathyf]

Carbon dioxide has a distinct air fertilization effect on plants.

I'm familiar with a similar question in paleontology... You get fossiles when the sea water is saturated with dissolved calcium carbonate; when the levels are lower than saturation the shells all dissolve away when the critters die and there is no fossile record. This happens even though the oceans are all connected together and constantly sloshing and mixing up -- the chemistry in parts of the ocean are different from other parts of the ocean.

One of the instances of scorn heaped upon science fiction is entire planets which have the climate variation of Lichtenstein. The earth is a very big place, and most people can't really get their brains around it. Carbon dioxide levels vary from place to place over the planet. Carbon dioxide dissolves in the ocean, and the amount of calcium carbonate dissolved in the water (from the shells of dead sea critters) controls how much CO2 can be dissolved. If there is more CO2 to be dissolved, it will get sucked out of the air by the oceans, and act as a preservative for some more shells of dead sea creatures. Plants suck CO2 out of the air, while animals excrete it. If plants grow a little faster, less CO2, if bugs explode in population, more. If both happen, balance returns. The idea that human activity could have global consequences is like the notion that one toddler peeing in the ocean could pollute the whole planet.

The Gaia Theory says that the earth is self-regulating and adapts to changing conditions. The idea that we could affect climate is absurd on its face, and it will take a lot of data and very good models (impossible to do with current computational resources) to convince me otherwise.

[Aaron]

Let me know when China and India are agreeing to any kind of global carbon tax.

[Elliott]

...Clinton and Obama holding secret meeting in her home.

1) Tell Max it concerns the Sandman. Moscow rules.

2) We've known each other for many years but this is the first time you've ever come to me for counsel or for help. I can't remember the last time you invited me to your house for a cup of coffee...

3) I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly, but you have elected the way of pain.

[hit and run]

Cathyf:
The idea that human activity could have global consequences is like the notion that one toddler peeing in the ocean could pollute the whole planet.

::holding story of Memorial Day weekend to myself::

[kim]

cf, the action of the biosphere under the impetus of solar energy virtually irreversibly sequesters carbon as carbonates and hydrocarbons. There is certainly a huge amount of carbon in the interplay between the oceans and the atmospheres and the almost irreversible sinks. I agree with you that our activities re carbon may well have only a miniscule effect on climate.

Clearly though, if only through land use, man is having some effect on weather and climate. Read Pielke Pere's climatescience.org for those effects and also cutting edge discussion of the whole climate riddle.
================

[kim]

Oh heck, it's climatesci.org
==================

[Clarice]

Thanks, Rich--Good luck with that fine piece of work.

[Clarice]

PUK, My family's been in shmatas from the beginning of time, and I assure you the big money's in fancy totes not in flint and obsidian weapons.

[kim]

Shortly after the beginning of time; don't shmatas attempt to conceal the shame of distinguishing good from evil.
=======================

[Porchlight]

As the 44th President of the United States will be a southpaw, he will be at a considerable disadvantage when having a Princess Bride quote-off.

Is McCain a lefty too? I mean, left-handed?

[Danube of Thought]

It appeared to me that Rasmussen's reporting changed a bit a couple of days ago. Both McCain's and Obama's numbers dropped a bit, and he added the new category of "leaners," which he now adds back in. Go figure; anyhow it's all meaningless now.

To add to my almost bottomless disappointment with John McCain, I was reminded tonight by the Fox all-stars that he had voted against drilling in ANWR--on the basis of what principle I cannot possibly say, although I'm sure he must have enjoyed infuriating fellow Republicans with his vote. There, along with cap-and-trade, are two winning issues that our guy has removed from the table. This campaign figures to frustrate me more than any in my lifetime.

[Clarice]

Kim,Never confuse shmatas with fig leaves..

[hit and run]

Well, Rich inspired me to go back and do some deep research a little scanning for snarkable material on Obama's AIPAC speech...

Obama's sacrosanctification

Obama says Jerusalem should be the undivided capital of Israel (in front of AIPAC), before he said it should be up for negotiation (when challenged by Palestinian leader Abbas).

[cathyf]

Let me know when China and India are agreeing to any kind of global carbon tax.

The sobering possibility is that China will have a reconversion to communism, and kill a few tens of millions of people with a new version of the Cultural Revolution, and drive the rest into absolute desperate deprivation. They've already done it -- they've proven that they know how. This would cause a crash in carbon dioxide production, and for demand for oil, as 1.2 billion people make a Great Leap Backward (into the Stone Age).

Quite frankly, I'd rather pay $10/gallon for gas because I have to compete with a billion prosperous Chinese than to even wish for the murder of tens or hundreds of millions of human souls.

[hit and run]

Cathyf:
Quite frankly, I'd rather pay $10/gallon for gas because I have to compete with a billion prosperous Chinese than to even wish for the murder of tens or hundreds of millions of human souls.

I have a friend who is going to China soon -- to the province where the earthquake happened, though not near the epicenter -- to teach English.

Eh, I've no idea how that relates -- other than to say, I pray for the people of China, including her leaders.

[Clarice]

Cathy and I will never make the enivro hall of fame..and for the same reasons.

[RichatUF]

Sorry to go OT again-

I'm going to toot my own horn and point out that my bit about Obama's AIPAC speech was added as an update to Baehr's post on the topic over at American Thinker.

[Clarice]

Great!!

[Elliott]

Excellent, Rich.

Hit and Run, Obama's stance is probably just a manifestation of the more complex cognition of the left-handed brain.

Porchlight, the article says McCain is left-handed as well. An explanation for CFR?

[hit and run]

Rich:
Sorry to go OT again

OT?

Balderdash. Grreat job.

[hit and run]

Sorry, apparently I was wrong about claiming a meeting at Hillary's house meant she had the upperhand in the relationship.

That is - the house they met at had no bearing on the fact that she does have the upperhand in the relationship.

Barry. Take deep breaths. She's got you by the ...

[JM Hanes]

Rich:

That's terrific! Glad to see your piece getting some well deserved exposure.

[Sara]

This seems to be the busiest thread, so I thought I'd give you a quick

UPDATE: Christian has been moved to what they call a transitional room. It is still on the ICU floor, but out of the critical care ward and into a private room.

They have taken him off all but the IV that is pure fluid, since they still can't get his potassium regulated.

Daddy has had his class on how to give insulin shots and it is now his responsibility for the next couple of days, under the supervision of the medical staff. He also will administer all the glucose level tests, do the charting, and determine the doses of insulin.

Christian is more alert. I sent him a recorded message today telling him to hurry his smile home and that the dog is very lonely without her playmate and I'm told that he broke into a great big grin and said, "tell Gramma I'm brave and don't go swimming without me." I think he is feeling better.

The doctors told Daddy today that they estimate Christian was less than an hour from death when he was brought to the hospital and someone must have been praying some powerful prayers because it was really touch and go for the first 12-18 hours. Thank you everyone who took the time to pray those "powerful prayers." You helped save a beautiful little boy's life.

[Elliott]

That's wonderful, Sara.

[Rick Ballard]

Excellent analysis, Rich. I hope that those attending AIPAC will read it and consider the fact that Obama's lies are absolutely transparent.

[Barry]

Nice job Rich!

[Clarice]

Thanks for the happy news update, Sara.

Rick, The great Melanie Phillips characterized the AIPAC crowd as akin to chickens voting for Shabbat.

[bgates]

There, along with cap-and-trade, are two winning issues that our guy has removed from the table. And immigration control makes three.