Obama Won't Question My Patriotism

We are reassured to learn that

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Monday he will never question others' patriotism during the race...

Right - his advisers were no doubt chomping at the bit to besmirch McCain's patriotism, confident that the American public would see past McCain's tired war hero gambit, but Obama stood on principle.

Let's note (hmm, with Karl at Team Protein) that this new non-questioning is a flip-flop for Obama, who felt comfortable passing judgment on the patriotism of others not so long ago:

“Somebody noticed I wasn’t wearing a flag lapel pin and I told folks, well you know what? I haven’t probably worn that pin in a very long time. I wore it right after 9/11. But after a while, you start noticing people wearing a lapel pin, but not acting very patriotic. Not voting to provide veterans with resources that they need. Not voting to make sure that disability payments were coming out on time.

“My attitude is that I’m less concerned about what you’re wearing on your lapel than what’s in your heart. And you show your patriotism by how you treat your fellow Americans, especially those who served. You show your patriotism by being true to our values and our ideals and that’s what we have to lead with is our values and our ideals.”

Whatever.  We have no idea who this guy is - let's elect him President so we can get to know him better.  (This idea for bringing us closer to Obama and vice versa never caught fire).

Comments

[Topsecretk9]

Conyers is a TARGET

Oh my. Looks like Majority Leader of the judiciary whose been found in violation by the ethics committee for slaving out his staff to elect his wife and raise his children, and then his wife has been in bar fights, then has recently threatened to shoot someone (or have them shot) and was shown up by a youth for having acted like a complete imbecile by calling a colleague "shrek" and otherwise demonstrating her low class presonae Mr. Show Trial Master himself has a bit of a problem - like bribery - on his hands, or at least his wife's phones have been tapped and they already have surveillance and phone taps

And it's all a conspiracy of course....Of. Course. Can't wait for the video and the insolent audi that accompanies these conspiracies like William Jefferson money wrapped in "organic food' containers in his freezer.

[Soylent Red]

Another part of the article Secret Agent 89 quotes...

If the Democrats are elected, this highly educated class will have much more say over policy than during the campaign. Undecided voters sway campaigns, but in government, elites generally run things. Once the Republicans are vanquished, I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for that capital gains tax hike or serious measures to expand unionization.

IOW, Obama is a bullshit artist.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
Obama is a bullshit artist.
---

As all good politicians are, or they don't stay politicians for long.

Good Ol' Jimmy was fond of telling the truth; one of our greatest ex-presidents.

Remember Ronald "I will Balance the Budget" Reagan?

Bullshit takes it every time.

[Topsecretk9]

Soylent.

I'd like Agent 89 to explain the Democrat war vote and Pelosi's failed gas price reduction policy, but George Soros doesn't want facts I take. Or Agent 99 is just a pussy and can man up to talk about them. Soros bot.

[Soylent Red]

As all good politicians are, or they don't stay politicians for long.

So much for a "new" kind of politics.

Hope. Change. Bullshit.

[Topsecretk9]

Agent 89

Can you explain to my why the democrat overwhelming funded George Bush's war?

[Soylent Red]

And he's probably a Muslim.

[Soylent Red]

Can you explain to my why the democrat overwhelming funded George Bush's war?

On at least six occasions?

[Elroy Jetson]

Agent 89,
Your numbers on the campaign donations are depressing. It goes to show how many people are willing to donate to a cause that runs counter to their own interests.
Think about it. Hedge fund managers & security and investment types donate to a guy that wants to raise capital gains taxes. Medical pros donate to a guy that wants to increase federal bureaucratic red tape (universal health care). Real estate pros and investment bankers donate to a guy that wants to increase the tax burden on the middle class (yes 89 the numbers add up).
Lawyers? I can at least understand that. Litigation today, litigation tomorrow, litigation forever!!! Let's sue on behalf of polar bears (to prevent arctic drilling) and the mojave ground squirrel (to prevent solar power plants)!

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
explain the Democrat war vote
---

Chickenshit takes 90% of it; Bush was bullshitting them with cherry-picked data (see BS discussion above) and they folded.

Obama knew Bush was a liar, figured the game was rigged and faded the move. He's young; knew if he was wrong he'd have 20 years to turn his career around. Hillary didn't have the luxury of time; had to make the safe play and went with the bullshit Bush put in front of her.

Obama played his hand well; you guys underestimate his abilities. You'll find out soon enough.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
Can you explain to my why the democrat overwhelming funded George Bush's war?
---

Path of least resistance, and probably felt some responsibility after the chickenshit authorization vote.

Once you put guys in the field, tough to pull them out if Bush won't produce a rational withdrawal plan.

And Bush would have made any tentative withdrawal as messy and chaotic as he needed it to be so he could justify staying, and the mess he created could be blamed on the Dems.

It was easier to contain Bush politically by giving in on the war. Nothing else has gone W's way over the past 4 years; you don't step into the breach when your opponent is set on autodestruct, you just let nature take its course.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
So much for a "new" kind of politics.
---

Old wine in new skins; same product we've been stocking for 250 years.

But that's what the public demands, so like any good marketing department, we give them what they want within the boundaries of the candidate's comfort zone.

Political battles are never decisive; bend when you can, break if you must. Constant tension, balancing of unlimited demand for limited resources; culture vs economics, etc.

That's what keeps it interesting; many degrees of freedom.

[Soylent Red]

Bush must've bullshat him into opposing the surge as well.

Except that Obamessiah knew, just knew, that Bushitler was a liar.

But if he knew Bushitler was a liar, and that the liar wanted him to support the surge, he did the right thing.

Except the surge is working so the liar was telling the truth. Yet the Obamessiah should have, using his highly tuned and storied judgment, and quickly calculated that the liar was lying about lying in order to bullshit the Obamessiah into making a mistake.

Ah what a tangled web we weave...

Which of course brings up a little more slightly than slightly known adage:

Never try to out bullshit an old school Chicago-style bullshitter when his career at the public trough is on the line.

[Soylent Red]

BTW Secret Agent 89...

As an Obamabot, you should probably NOT admit that Mr. New Style of Politics is simply same shit, new packaging. The Committtee for Public Safety (and Hope and Change) may be watching.

Gotta start getting used to that New Order now, dontcha know.

[Topsecretk9]

Path of least resistance

OH. Flippin' beautiful.

WE ARE WINNING.

Thanks Agent 89. I knew you had to admit it.

V.I.C.T.O.R.Y.\

Hah. Fuckin' Hah, hah HAH!

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
It goes to show how many people are willing to donate to a cause that runs counter to their own interests.
---

Not really; the electorate is the final arbiter of the position, and economic interests have to work with the politicians that people select.

In a close race, they'll donate to their ideological supporters, but every once in a while, when the economy gets bad, we have a war, etc., the people get so disgusted they just throw the bums out. The donation list tells you where corporations think the wind is blowing; the stronger the shift in donations, the more convinced they're backing the right horse.

In that environment companies can't swim against a strong political current so they give money to the likely winner for access and consideration.

Just like they teach you in microeconomics; it's about limiting losses, not maximizing profits.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
WE ARE WINNING.
---

No, you *were* winning; the Dems are just running out the clock.

[Axelrodspierre]

We are watching you 89.

[Sara]

Reliapundit has an amazing link to the past up.

This is from Friday, Jun. 29, 2001, Time Magazine:

Not that Bush was ever against conservation, exactly — he just never gave it so much respect. But this is a man fast learning the fine Washington art of the course correction. In May, convinced the nation was terrified of going California and hungering for a steak-and-eggs energy plan, Bush sold his plan as an aggressive drill-and-dig, anti-regulatory prescription to shoo away the tree-huggers and get the nation — and the economy — humming again.

Two months later, a New York Times/CBS poll released last week found that not only do two-thirds of the nation think Bush and Cheney are too beholden to oil companies, 60 percent think the pair made the whole energy crisis up.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
As an Obamabot
---

Too old to be a anyone's bot at this point; just looking for someone who can strike a balance, not bridge burners.

And Obama is not a bridge burner; rolls the dice when he has to or if he thinks he's got an edge, but if there's a nice predictable path to success, that's his preference.

After the excitement of the Bush years, I'm more interested in stability than blowing stuff up; that's why I don't care how far he tacks to the center.

[Soylent Red]

Good stuff Sara.

That's pre-9/11. Time was still in it's "Bush is stoopid" mode. It had not yet shifted to "Bush=Hitler" mode.

[Soylent Red]

Too old to be a anyone's bot at this point

Wouldn't have gotten that from your posts.

Ooooooooh! I get it! You're undercover.

Sssshhhh.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
We are watching you 89.
---

We are all being watched; of that there can be no doubt.

Every phone call, every keystroke, every packet is being tracked, traced, analyzed, and persisted to a db or log file somewhere.

Your breadcrumbs will probably be sitting in a machine/tape/disc somewhere long after you're dead.

[Soylent Red]

We are all being watched

By Cheney and Rove, no doubt.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
Wouldn't have gotten that from your posts.
---

My simple motto is respond in kind; maybe not the most sophisticated algorithm for dealing with the world, but it's efficient and consumes few compute cycles.

People get cocky, I'll be cocky. Anyone wants to start shit, I'm ready. But as you see here, I can be reasonable if anyone bothers to take the time.

During the day, it's harder; lots of traffic and people play to the stands; they're more interested in poking a stick in my cage just to hear the whoops from the fans.

Which I don't always handle gracefully. ;-)

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
By Cheney and Rove, no doubt.
---

nah; verizon, google, and the banks have so much shit on you it's scary.

Cheney goes to *them* when he needs the goods on someone.

[Topsecretk9]

We are watching you 89.

No Soylent,Democrat Jim Cooper is hacking away.

who else?

I'm still wondering why a former intelligence official would have seen transcripts of Buhs' conversations GWBush had with heads of state....would you know this Soylent? I'll dig up the exact quote.

[Topsecretk9]

We are watching you 89.

No Soylent,Democrat Jim Cooper is hacking away.

who else?

I'm still wondering why a former intelligence official would have seen transcripts of Buhs' conversations GWBush had with heads of state....would you know this Soylent? I'll dig up the exact quote.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

g'nite all

[Topsecretk9]

Soylent

this was from the NYT's latest treason chronicle

Two former United States government officials say they were surprised and frustrated when instead of demanding action from Mr. Musharraf, Mr. Bush instead repeatedly thanked him for his contributions to the war on terrorism. “He never pounded his fist on the table and said, ‘Pervez you have to do this,’ ” said a former senior intelligence official who saw transcripts of the phone conversations.

I asked if it was normal that a president would record his conversation and then would that tranny be disseminated to the intelligence community???

I take to a pretty knowledgeable person who said NO, it would NOT be recorded and NO transcript would exist. at most a crude iteration from an aide designated to take notes and then brief, bit never a transcript.

So what gives? NYT's lied? The source lied? or um

[Topsecretk9]

take = talked

and then, I found, like my friend said, it never has happened after Nixon.

So what up?

” said a former senior intelligence official who saw transcripts of the phone conversations.

Why are they seeing his phone conversations?

[Topsecretk9]

Gosh blast it. I hope I didn't missed Soylent.

[Topsecretk9]

Gosh blast it. I hope I didn't missed Soylent.

[Soylent Red]

TSK9:

Working on the military side, I can only tell you what I know, which is pretty specific to military intelligence.

To my knowledge, recording phone conversations went out with Nixon.

If they are still doing it, it would not be on a regular basis, and it would be NSA doing it. For what purpose, I have no idea. My inclination is that NSA has a lot of things to do these days, and recording presidential phone calls is probably not one of them.

Having said all that, they do take transcripts (of a sort) of diplomatic meetings. Whether they do that for phone calls of a diplomatic nature, I don't know. Again, that's agency stuff.

Bottom line is, presidential telephone conversations should not be getting into the newspapers. Particularly ones involving foreign policy or national security. Whoever leaked the information should be hunted down.

[Topsecretk9]

Soylent

Thank you. And yur assessment is pretty much what I thought.

I was taken with

said a former senior intelligence official who saw transcripts of the phone conversations.

And thought that this passage really revealed something OR illustrated how full of shit the NYT truly is - hence their embarrassing circ numbers(not counting the papers the toss in the dumpster to feign good circ 3's - doesn't that hurt the environment they lecture us about?)

It's pretty amazing thing they said - that intelligence officials are looking at the Presidents phone conversations.

Sorta dwarfs the lefties FISA' circle jerk, huh...if true..

[Topsecretk9]

Soylent

Thank you. And yur assessment is pretty much what I thought.

I was taken with

said a former senior intelligence official who saw transcripts of the phone conversations.

And thought that this passage really revealed something OR illustrated how full of shit the NYT truly is - hence their embarrassing circ numbers(not counting the papers the toss in the dumpster to feign good circ 3's - doesn't that hurt the environment they lecture us about?)

It's pretty amazing thing they said - that intelligence officials are looking at the Presidents phone conversations.

Sorta dwarfs the lefties FISA' circle jerk, huh...if true..

[Topsecretk9]

And Soylent, they said:

Senior intelligence official who saw transcripts of the phone conversations.

That's plural. Multiple transcripts of the presidents phone conversations were looked at by Senior intelligence officials.

hmmm.

I'm going there.

I think it happened. I think the intelligence committee undermined the Bush Administration by tapping their phones, or some dem entity. And I think a lot of people should go to jail for a long time, including a few members on the intelligence committee.

[bgates]

Bad -
I would have thought that pretty much everyone...knows that these are not the "first lines" of the Declaration
That's a strange oversight. I would have thought the part about what "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires" would be his favorite of the whole document, since that phrase seems to be the foundation of all his policy rationales - "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires" we withdraw from Iraq, "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires" we drive smaller cars and turn the thermostat up, etc.

[Topsecretk9]

I'm Off To Iran Before Israel Bombs It In my red UNITARD because Iran really loves that, bring your tranny too George!

[clarice]

ts, I think that the calls aren't recorded but transcripts of calls with diplomatic implications are to maintain an appropriate historical record and that may be to what the NYT reference is...not that I believe those records ought to have been leaked to the media or anyone else.

[SunnyDay]

Completely OT - Jim Gilmore will be taking call in questions on the Norfolk VA morning drive time show on WNIS (Sinclair Station) this AM. The show is 6-10 AM, but timing for Gilmore may vary, depending on exactly when he's available - supposed to last an hour. It is broadcast live over the net.

I love this stuff. Straight from the people of Virginia. The host (Macrini) is a Warner supporter. He's entertaining though or he wouldn't have much of an audience in this area. Big Hint - Macrini announced a while back that NYT IS the "paper of record" for the purposes of his show.

I've been wanting to smack Mark Warner since his very first ad was an insult to the people of Virginia. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Jane]

Good Morning everyone - I don't see much uproar in the morning news about Rand Beers little escapade yesterday. Karl Rove was livid about it last night - which I always think is a good sign.

Maybe we should have a contest. Who will be tossed under the bus today?

[centralcal]

Over at littlegreenfootballs they have done away with "under the bus" in favor of "kicked to the curb." LOL.

I guess it was getting so crowded under the bus that it couldn't move to run over anybody?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

So what gives? NYT's lied? The source lied? or um...

Ya think?

Martin's Heisenbergian Observation.

[Jane]

I just think we need a bigger bus - like the size of an aircraft carrier.

[bad]

I guess it was getting so crowded under the bus that it couldn't move to run over anybody?

Someone thought Michael Moore was headed under the bus and knew that not only would he take up all of the space but would tip over the bus and damage BHO's big screen TV and massage=o=lounger.

[Jane]

LOL

Bad - you are bad!

[Jane]

Charlie,

I love it!

[Hoosierhoops]

He is in Ft Belvoir
VA, acquiring his classified training and should complete just prior to Thanksgiving.

Well that's good news Cleo.. I hope he is in fine health and spirits..
Does he get many 96's to come home and visit?

[Hoosierhoops]

89
/ignore

my work here is done.

[Hoosierhoops]

Over at littlegreenfootballs they have done away with "under the bus" in favor of "kicked to the curb." LOL.

I guess it was getting so crowded under the bus that it couldn't move to run over anybody?

Posted by: centralcal

We are just waiting for the larger busses to arrive.. :)

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I just think we need a bigger bus - like the size of an aircraft carrier.

I think we're gonna need a bigger boat.

[kim]

No long bus jokes, please. Airport limousine jokes OK.
=============================

[Chris]

TSK9,
Thanks for the heads-up on Conyers. Whocoodanode he's corrupt?

[Chris]

Oh, it was the Mrs. Never mind.

[centralcal]

Charlie and Hoosier!

Ombama unveils new campagin bus.

Click on the link in my name.

[section9]

As in other recent campaigns, lawyers account for the biggest chunk of Democratic donations. They have donated about $18 million to Obama, compared with about $5 million to John McCain, according to data released on June 2 and available at OpenSecrets.org.

89, the next time you get the talking points from Cult of Personality Central, you might want to suggest to them that emphasizing how much money they get from the Plaintiff's Bar is not helpful to the Young Jesus Hussein Christ's campaign.

Remember, the difference between a dead lawyer in the road and a dead dog in the road is that there are tire marks in front of the dead dog.

Now, go back to worshipping at the altar of The Fuhrer. We here at JOM are staring to tire of the Cultists.

[HoosierHoops]

Charlie and Hoosier!

Ombama unveils new campagin bus.

Click on the link in my name.

That was great centralcal..

[bad]

Clark is out there telling talk shows that BO had nothing to do with his remarks about McCain. Link under my name

Very clever strategy:

1. Clark says it
2. BO denounces what Clark says
3. Clark absolves BO of any responsibility for what Clark says

If my math is correct, the original remarks get three times the coverage.

[Jane]

So where does that leave Clark?

Pretty soon there will be no one left in an Obama administration - well except Maddie Halfwit.

[bad]

Unfortunately there are multiple morons available to fill Obama's administration. The standards aren't that high.

But what is more likely regarding Clark, (and anyone else under the bus) if Obama becomes president is:

Obama gives a big speech on forgiveness and redemption.

All of the previously disavowed former associates are resurrected and restored to positions of glory in the Obama administration.

[kim]

Yes, bad, that's why they all go so silently. Well except for that wild Man of God.
=====================================

[kim]

He'd pardon Rezko; in a minute. Fitz, he'll delay past the election, the dog.
=====================

[bad]

Obamasigha is supposed to give a speech today on religion and government or something like that. Wonder if he will sow seeds he can reap later. Of course that depends on whether he cares at all about consistancy which hasn't been an issue to date.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

Well, I got up early this morning to rejoin the conversation, but the new Townhouse email hasn't arrived yet so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say today.

I'll be commenting again later as soon as the talking points arrive.

[bad]

Obamasigha s/b obamasighuh

[PeterUK]

"Well, I got up early this morning to rejoin the conversation,"

In your case the word you are looking for is diatribe.