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July 28, 2008



Anbar Awakening of September 20006

Let us not get ahead of ourselves here.


I am most concerned that Obama doesn't seem to realize that Iraq has vastly more strategic importance than Afghanistan or the cave dwelling leadership of al Qaeda.

Iraq is smack in the middle of the Middle East's oil reserves. The dividing line between Sunni and Shia branches of Islam runs right through Iraq, and Iraq is on the boarder between Persia and Arabia.

Shouldn't somebody ask 'The One' what he thinks about that?


"What Obama learned is that he can say anything and the press will still eat out of his hand."

Positive reinforcement tends to do that.

Danube of Thought

E-mail received fourth-hand from a guy in Afghanistan:

"Hello everyone,
"As you know I am not a very political person. I just wanted to pass along that Senator Obama came to Bagram Afghanistan for about an hour on his visit to 'The War Zone'. I wanted to share with you what happened.

"He got off the plane and got into a bullet proof vehicle, got to the area to meet with the Major General (2 Star) who is the commander here at Bagram.

"As the Soldiers where lined up to shake his hand he blew them off and didn't say a word as he went into the conference room to meet the General. As he finished, the vehicles took him to the ClamShell (pretty much a big top tent that military personnel can play basketball or work out in with weights) so he could take his publicity pictures playing basketball. He again shunned the opportunity to talk to Soldiers to thank them for their service.

"So really he was just here to make a showing for the American's back home that he is their candidate for President. I think that if you a re going to make an effort to come all the way over here you would thank those that are providing the freedom that they are providing for you.

"I swear we got more thanks from the NBA Basketball Players or the Dallas Cowboy Cheer leaders than from one of the Senators, who wants to be the President of the United States. I just don't understand how anyone would want him to be our Commander-and-Chief. It was almost that he was scared to be around those that provide the freedom for him and our great country.

"If this is blunt and to the point I am sorry but I wanted you all to know what kind of caliber of person he really is. What you see in the news is all fake.

"In service,
CPT Jeffrey S. Porter
Battle Captain
TF Wasatch
American Soldier"





DoT I believe this viral email has been recalled by its author who says (a) it was just meant for his family and (b0 it contains some errors.


I still expect Iraq to descend once again into sectarian violence when we withdraw, unless...

some leader or faction can quickly demonstrate that he/it possesses the tools and the will to dominate. Iraqi society--no matter how many elections are held--is fundamentally tribal and the rules of tribal morality will out in the end. That means blood for blood in Middle Eastern tribal terms, unless confronted by overwhelming force and the will to use it ruthlessly. Or, more usually, a balance of terror.

I'm not offering policy prescriptions, just saying that this incontrovertible fact must betaken into account and that happy talk about The Surge is not sufficient. The Surge is a complicated affair and, ultimately, temporary. Iraqis of various stripes are currently dealing with the reality of an Iraq that is occupied by an overwhelmingly powerful an increasingly (in this context) competent American military. That won't last forever, and when it ends Iraqis of various stripes will revert to their traditional ways of doing things. Unless...


I still expect Iraq to descend once again into sectarian violence when we withdraw, unless...

some leader or faction can quickly demonstrate that he/it possesses the tools and the will to dominate. Iraqi society--no matter how many elections are held--is fundamentally tribal and the rules of tribal morality will out in the end. That means blood for blood in Middle Eastern tribal terms, unless confronted by overwhelming force and the will to use it ruthlessly. Or, more usually, a balance of terror.

I'm not offering policy prescriptions, just saying that this incontrovertible fact must betaken into account and that happy talk about The Surge is not sufficient. The Surge is a complicated affair and, ultimately, temporary. Iraqis of various stripes are currently dealing with the reality of an Iraq that is occupied by an overwhelmingly powerful an increasingly (in this context) competent American military. That won't last forever, and when it ends Iraqis of various stripes will revert to their traditional ways of doing things. Unless...



sorry about the double.


Army Times sent an e-mail to Porter, a Utah Army National Guard member assigned to the 142nd Military Intelligence Battalion, asking if he could verify that he wrote the controversial e-mail and requesting an interview.

Porter’s reply declined the interview request, but said:

“I am writing this to ask that you delete my e-mail and not forward it, after checking my sources some of the information that was put out in my e-mail was wrong. This e-mail was meant only for my family. Please respect my wishes and delete the e-mail and if there are any blogs you have my e-mail portrayed on I would ask if you would take it down too.


Hardly a fake e-mail and I am sure it reflects his sentiments accurately especially since it was meant only for family. Obamabots should note the lack of vindication for their chosen one, being entirely different than a please respect my privacy request.

Danube of Thought

Well, given what the man has apparently said about it, I would take it down right now if I knew how. TM, any way you can honor this man's wishes? Or is there any way I can?


This is the 2nd time it's been posted on JOM. It reads as if intended for general circulation followed by second thoughts.

Danube of Thought

Given what Clarice and ParseThis have said, I have to assume that the author doesn't want it out in public anymore, and I'd like to accommodate him but don't know how.


I think his superior officers did not want one of their officers in their chain of command to be openly criticizing a Senator. So despite it being the sentiments of this officer, he was "convinced" to ask that his privacy be respected.

Some lefties are calling it a fraud. I think the fraud is their candidate but I will let that be until another post.


Porter decided to back away from the claims once it was made clear they weren't true.

These comments are inappropriate and factually incorrect,” Bagram spokesman Lt. Col. Rumi Nielson-Green told the New York Daily News.

Obama didn’t play basketball at Bagram or visit the Clamshell, she said.

“We were a bit delayed ... as he took time to shake hands, speak to troops and pose for photographs,” Nielson-Green said.

Navy Times

Charlie (Colorado)

For What Kind Of Compliant Fools Does Obama Take The Press?

First class.

Rick Ballard

The Brokaw interview provides a nice insight concerning how very intellectually shallow The One is in all respects. When Clinton turned on the bafflegab machine he used actual datapoints to jerk attention away from the subject of the question. (it's the same technique used by commenters who try to drive a thread away from the subject of the post). Obama spits out a generality or a platitude rather than a datapoint which allows the interviewer to grab his collar and drag him back.

I'm very curious as to what the crack JOM Legal Corps think of that interview. I see it as revealing a rather surprising level of ignorance and I don't think Brokaw was particularly tough at all. In fact, I believe that The One knows the depth of his own ignorance (he must have borrowed a very long line to plumb that abyss) and stays away from the press due to his unwillingness to be exposed as a fool.

Quite a conundrum for his press sycophants - softball is one thing but going to nerfball is going to destroy the little pride that remains concerning their "professionalism".


I think that a vast majority of Obama foreign policy advisors don't really think that Obama will pull out and abandon Iraq, that like all that talk about NAFTA .. this is just campaign tripe.

Reality is that Obama probably will try to abandon Iraq with a whole shitload of resignations to precede it.


Who is Winning the War on Terror? US/Allies 51% Terrorists 16%


He' probably getting pressure from the top brass; to ixnay on the ommentarycay. His perspective seems still rather on point, as anything else we've read about the trip. If it were for the traditional press, we would not know of his refusal to go to Landstuhl;
or other facts on this junket. He is on record, as basically being opposed to this mission in Afghanistan; with priority to understanding why men, who don't want women to touch them; that was one of the hangups
of the Hamburg cell, should be listened to.
We know how liberals self selected Hackett, Reickhoff, later Reppenhagen, that turncoat in Ramadi, as their Kerrey, Harkin, Mueller
Kovic spokesman for the 'quagmire, both in Iraq and Afghanistan. How the likes of Bellavia, Hegseth, Egeland, still practically can't get any attention from the traditional media (the latter, only as part of a report into faulty contracting in Iraq)

As Max Boot pointed out much moreeloquently,
Maliki was dragged kicking and screaming toward accepting the surge, and was a stalwart opponent of supporting the Anbar Awakening. He is unconfortably too similar to Obama in that regard. If not for Zebari,
the Kurdish foreign minister; Al Hashemi's prevailing over the Sunni bloc, et al; this likely would not have happened. There are some parallels with the experience in Germany. Many of the German old guard like Josef Strauss and even liberals like the FDP clique were more opposed to the US, thant to the Russians themselves. Iran being the Russian/East German analogy.


It is stunning to see the pressies actually hold Barry to any standard. I guess they love their jobs and positions more than they love him, that's gotta hurt. These media events rubbish the fictions of our Leftwing citizens. They knew the war was lost because no war is ever won, not truly. It is just a cycle of violence. A lack of empathy and imagination. A surrender to the urge to fear the other.... blah and blah again. Needless to say, history and logic are unkind to these sentiments. Even Barry struggles against these tides in vain.

Danube of Thought

Obama knows damn well that if he pulls the US troops out and Iraq descends into chaos, he's a one-term president. So he'll keep up this BS to avoid turning off MoveOn and Kos, and then if he takes office he'll do pretty much the same as McCain would do.

It is very hard for me to understand how he avoids just getting creamed over his earlier opposition to funding the effort in Afghanistan, when he now says is the all-important battle. And his steadfast refusal to acknowledge the success of the surge, and his assertion that he has "always said" that it would reduce violence, are simply bizarre.

Danube of Thought

Interesting to see that a majority now sees us as winning the war on terror, and only 16% see the terrorists winning. Guess who was the commander-in-chief when the war was declared, and has held that position throughout? The guy can't catch a break...

Rich Berger

The "refutation" is a bit thin - he didn't go to the Clamshell or play basketball. The part where - “We were a bit delayed ... as he took time to shake hands, speak to troops and pose for photographs,” Nielson-Green said', was a bit fuzzy and doesn't directly address Cpl Porter's comments.


Don Surber reproduces verbatim Obama's answers to the first 13 questions asked by Brokow: LUN

1. Right. But those are scheduled when I get back.

2. Right.

3. It makes me, makes me tired just listening to you read it.

4. Well, I, I, I didn’t see a huge shift in the strategic policies that I’ve laid out throughout this campaign. It was clear to me that Afghanistan is the central front on terror, that the Taliban and al-Qaeda have reconstituted themselves. They are — they have safe havens along the Afghan-Pakistan border. Our troops are doing an outstanding job, and many coalition troops are doing an outstanding job. But frankly, we need a, a, a more serious effort on the part of the Afghan government and President Karzai to get out of Kabul, to start the development process. We’re going to need two additional brigades in Afghanistan and we’ve got to work with Pakistan to get serious about these terrorist safe havens. So that’s got to be a priority. I was pleased to see the reductions in violence in Iraq. And there’s no doubt that we have seen violence lessen, our troops are performing in an extraordinary fashion. The Sunni awakening has helped to eliminate, if not eliminate, then greatly lessen the possibilities of al-Qaeda reconstituting itself as a big and effective force. And the fact that Prime Minister Maliki is ready to take on more responsibility for the security of their country, I think is a positive development.

5. Right.

6. Right.

7. Right.

8. I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there; in fact, I think it’ll do the reverse.

9. All right.

10. You know, we don’t know, because in my earlier statements — I mean, I know that there’s that little snippet that you ran, but there were also statements made during the course of this debate in which I said there’s no doubt that additional U.S. troops could temporarily quell the violence. But unless we saw an underlying change in the politics of the country, unless Sunni, Shia, Kurd made different decisions, then we were going to have a civil war and we could not stop a civil war simply with more troops. Now, I, I …

11. Well, the — well, the — look, there’s no doubt, and I’ve said this repeatedly, that our troops make a difference. If — you know, they do extraordinary work. The troops that I met, they were proud of their work, they had made enormous sacrifices, they had fought, they had helped to construct schools and, and rebuilt the countryside. But, for example, in Anbar Province, where we went to visit, the Sunni awakening took place before the surge started, and tribal leaders made a decision that, instead of fighting the Americans, we’re going to work with the Americans against al-Qaeda. That was a political decision that was made that has made a huge difference in this entire process.

So the, the point I want to make is this, Tom, I mean, you know, if we want to look at the question of judgment which is the one that John McCain raised, John McCain’s essential focus has been on the tactical issue of sending more troops, and he’s, he’s made his entire approach to foreign policy rest on that support of Bush’s decision to send more troops in. But we can have a whole range of arguments about past decisions — the decision to go into Iraq in the first place, and whether that was a good strategic decision, where we’ve spent a trillion dollars at least by the time this thing is over, lost thousands of lives in pursuit of goals John McCain supported that turned out to be false. We can make decisions about does it make sense for us to set a time frame for withdrawal to encourage the kind of political reconciliation that needs to take place to stabilize Iraq. We can talk about the distractions from hunting down al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, where there is no doubt that we would be further along had we not engaged in some of these actions, and …

12. Well, but, but, but, let me …

13. Tom, look — Tom, I’m, I’m — the fact that — the …

Danube of Thought

"8. I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there; in fact, I think it’ll do the reverse."

I'm curious about that one--is that an answer Obama gave to Brokaw in this interview? It reads to me like someone quoting what Obama said back in 2006.


The transcript and video clips of MTP can be found here:
The Messiah on MTP



I went and looked at the transcript: Here is the question (actually he aired a taped answer from Obama)

MR. BROKAW: ...and repeated several times. Let's listen to you now and your immediate reaction to the idea of the surge back in the beginning of 2007.



SEN. OBAMA: I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there; in fact, I think it'll do the reverse.

Tom Maguire

Anbar Awakening of September 20006

Let us not get ahead of ourselves here.

Dickersaon is making predictions that not even my great-grand-kids will be able to validate.


"he(Obama) claimed on more than one occasion that it would lead to increased casualties and sectarian violence. It didn't. How'd he get that one wrong? "

Easy,Obama is clueless and has lived in an environment where bullshit baffles brains.Unfortunately he now in the grown up world where his fantasies count.


Monday, July 28, 2008
Gains for McCain in latest USA TODAY/Gallup Poll
Republican presidential candidate John McCain moved from being behind by 6 points among "likely" voters a month ago to a 4-point lead over Democrat Barack Obama among that group in the latest USA TODAY/Gallup Poll. McCain still trails slightly among the broader universe of "registered" voters. By both measures, the race is tight.

The Friday-Sunday poll, mostly conducted as Obama was returning from his much-publicized overseas trip and released just this hour, shows McCain now ahead 49%-45% among voters that Gallup believes are most likely to go to the polls in November. In late June, he was behind among likely voters, 50%-44%.

--Of ocurse, the nine point lead survey is the only one getting much publicity.


So he'll keep up this BS to avoid turning off MoveOn and Kos, and then if he takes office he'll do pretty much the same as McCain would do.

As far as the war is concerned, yes, because he's essentially clueless and doesn't fundamentally care about it. The left in general doesn't care about the war; they just use it as a stick to beat Bush and the Republicans in order to increase the chance of getting a Democrat in the oval office. The left cares primarily about strengthening labor unions and government employees, increasing taxes on the most productive citizens, and--most important--installing as many leftwing justices on the Supreme Court as possible. That will be the real difference between McCain and Obama.

Danube of Thought

Clarice, that's the best news I've heard in months, literally. Can it be that the scales are falling from some eyes, as increased attention is paid?

Tell me you're not pulling our legs...


That will be the real difference between McCain and Obama.

I dunno, I keep going back to fired foreign policy guru Samantha Power's view of the world. Her entire thesis was that if you talk to your enemies long enough, they will come around. Her example was a guy who eventually got killed for his talking.

I think Obama is at heart, an appeaser. I think he thinks he can win the whole world over, and if nothing else he can just postpone the attacks on us until he is out of office.


Brocko's judgment on the Surge is but one example of the things that make me wary of him. There is also his judgment on school reform in Chicago, and subsidized housing there. His judgment as to some of his close friends like Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko, Wm. Ayres, et. al. His opinion of working class Americans and their tendency to cling didn't impress me. His theory that more oil production won't bring down the price of oil is questionable.

My point is that all these examples of the candidate's judgment ought not to be considered as unrelated, but as a pattern of poor judgment.


Speaking of fools, how about Chuck Hagel. From USAToday:

*****McCain began running an ad criticizing Obama for finding time to shop and go to a gym in Berlin but not visit wounded troops at U.S. military hospitals at Ramstein and Landstuhl after being told he could not bring news media.

"I think John is treading on some very thin ground here," Hagel said on CBS' Face the Nation.*****

I don't think McCain is going to take kindly to being threatened by the old McCain wannabe.



Here is the USAToday blog post about the poll. Very unusual that it would include disclaimers on the top and the bottom. Suppose the Obamabots are not only delicate, but touchy.


Thanks--Rich I was away, returned, grabbed the cite and there you are ahead of me at the gate..Of course, as I noted this part of the poll will get much less coverage.


Bingo, MikeS. That a substantial chunk of the American press and a (dwindling) chunk of the American electorate considers him to be presidential timber makes me wonder about their judgment, but that's nothing new. Lets hope that the grownups assert themselves before November, and The Messiah goes the way of Dukakis.



USAToday and Gallup out with a national poll that has McCain winning when a LV screen is applied to the poll. Pretty astounding news, since its been awhile since a poll showed him up, and in the wake of the baby bounce it will be jarring to progs. All of that free publicity, all of those advisors and all of that money and Obama can be heard to be channeling John Kerry " I cant believe I am losing to this idiot."


We had a "Summer Splash" party this past weekend for my 7 year old granddaughter. In order to organize it, we had to go out and meet some of our neighbors for the first time and try to find a few little girls near Tabitha's age. The result was that we had about 50 people, including many adults I met for the first time.

During the course of the day, I thought it would be interesting to take an impromptu poll when the conversation turned to some local politics. I explained that I blogged and I would be curious to know if those in attendance were more or less impressed by the Obama overseas tour.

More than half didn't even know about the tour. "I work, I have X kids, I don't have time for the news," was pretty much the answer. Of the other half, it was about 50/50.


Obama is a recognisable personality type,he gains status by assuming omniscience.In general he is never called on his statements,the technique relies on a rapid turnover of subjects.
The way to catch people like this is to make things up,they will then claim knowledge of the subject.One can have endless mirth and fun with this type.

"I'm having trouble with my Wickersneed tangental converter"

"Don't you mean 'Whickersneed'? As you know,I have always said the Whickersneed Tangental Converter would never work".


One reason he's losing is all those advisers and free press..Honestly--Happened to Kerry, too.


Actually I have seen more than one commenter indicate that the Press and their fawning is motivating Republicans and fair minded independents to react with disgust and that is part of what is being detected in the USA Today poll, a strong willingness to vote to send a message to the MSM.

In Obama's case I am not sure to know him is to love him either, so he may be in for some rough patches as voters start to know him.


"very thin ground "

As opposed to "shakey ground" and "thin ice"?



I still want the anti-war types to explain why an estimated 20,000+ jihadists flocked to Al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan during the 1990's and before the 9/11 WTC attacks ..... long before Bush, and long before the US invaded Afghanistan or Iraq.


We in Britain were very touched that Obama took time to pay his respects to the dead,although he didn't want to be photographed with Gordon Brown.


He met with Cameron, did he also met with Brownie? Share a pint and commiserate with Red Ken Livingstone?

Jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet

In Tom Lehrer's great song, Nikolai Lobachevsky, there was a segment that credited Lobechevsky with the secret to success in mathematics, and went something like, "plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize, only be sure always to call it, please, 'research'".

BO (no H please) has modified it, and from the content of his speeches and talking points, (and from reading his answers, Rick) has apparently shared these secrets to his writers:

"Platitudes, platitudes, platitudes, only be sure always to call it, please, 'wisdom'".

Some are now catching on, it appears.



Good luck getting an answer. There is not an insignificant fraction of people who believe that al Qeada was a Bush Administration creation.


Goner Kebab Al Qaeda biological weapons expert Abu Khabab al-Masri killed.


Neat! From the accompanying head shot he came with the spots for the bullet holes already marked on his head.


"Abu Khabab al-Masri, also known as Midhat Mursi al-Sayid Umar, was an Egyptian chemist regarded as one of al-Qaeda’s top bomb makers and had a $5 million bounty on his head."

The money would been a give away also.

Jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet

They may have been pre-punched to make it easier to join with his brother Shish.


Maybe that's it,Jim.

Abu Khabab al-Masri, also known as Midhat Mursi al-Sayid Umar
Yeah, that's an obvious nickname!

(So what sort of "news judgement" puts this factoid in the second paragraph of the story and the picture caption?)


Interesting that he got his virgin allocation whilst inside Pakistan.Looks like there was cooperation.


Abu Kebab Skewered! ( might account for the holes too!)


PeterUK, how did it play in Britain with him usurping 10 Downing as if he was your Prime Minister?


Apart from the usual leftoid Obasm,nobody really noticed.Even a dead duck could upstage Brown now.


Laughing loudly. Gonna get in trouble at work.

Love all the Hole in the Head comments!


we need a, a, a more serious effort
Now, I, I …
Well, but, but, but, let me …

I'm starting to wonder if maybe his real name is "Barack Ob".

But when he introduces himself to people, it comes out "Barack Ob. Ahm. Uh."


Good stuff here, take a look.

An Open Letter to Barack Obama


***For some who read this blog, you may be tempted to call me a racial epitath, sellout, or whatever which is typical of those who cannot debate on substance and factual information. As a disclaimer, if I am attacked in such a way, just know that it does not phase me nor will it get me distracted from discussing the issue at hand which is a referendum on Obama. So I would advise you to not try that liberal tactic on me because I don't care and it doesn't work. But to be honest, I'd rather be called a childish name than truly be an arrogant, narcissistic, puppet of the old white racist democrat establishment, now thats truly a sell out lol. Like I say in my headline, "I love my country and my military too much to vote for Obama." ***

Go read her open letter, you won't be sorry.

Danube of Thought

FDCol, where did you get the figure 20,000? I recall that immediately after 9/11 the received wisdom was that between 60,000 and 80,000 Al Qaeda trainees had passed through Afghanistan and dispersed around the world.

And I honestly must say that, thanks to the very flawed George W. Bush, a lot of them have lost much of their enthusiasm, and a lot of others have lost their wretched lives.


...wisdom was that between 60,000 and 80,000 Al Qaeda trainees...

I have a clear memory (so it probably didn't happen at all) that the FBI, while investigating the Cole attack, estimated that 70,000 had been trained.


A conversation between Obama and David Cameron


Excellent, Pete. I'll bet Littlejohn is fun on climate. You have a revolution going on over there, you know. How about that Ofcom/IPCC business over 'Swindle'?


In my experience, an American accented individual produces a sound of unmatched dissonance when attempting to refer to someone named "Barry" by the nickname "Bazza."


Re: the speculation on Drudge about Obama's VP.

Looking at the photo, can anyone, male or female, explain Kaines hairdo? Does he have a barber or does he whack at it himself?


Kaines's haircut is to distance himself from Edwards.


Looks like his hair is divorcing his head on the grounds of incompatibility.


• "As we speak, cars in Boston and factories in Beijing are melting the ice caps in the Arctic . . ."--Barack Obama, Berlin, July 24, 2008 •

"New data from the Norwegian Meteorological Institute shows that there is more ice than normal in the Arctic waters north of the Svalbard archipelago. In most years, there are open waters in the area north of the archipelago in July month. Studies from this year however show that the area is covered by ice, the Meteorological Institute writes in a press release."--Barents Observer (Kirkenes, Norway), July 24


Ralph L

Looks like a fine, upstanding New Jersey politician to me!
I think the 'do denotes "not gay."


Kinky Friedman just told O'Reilly he was like Columbo, without the charm. LOL. He also said he was too young for medicare and to old for women to care. LOL, again. He is not government material, but he is always good for a laugh.


I'm sorry, I meant governor, not government. For those who are unaware, he ran for governor of the great state of Texas. He even got Willie Nelson's endorsement. Did Kinky as much good as it did Kucinich.


Well PUK, you found a picture where his hair looks normal, unlike the Drudge photo.

PaulL - liked your reasoning!


The Kinkster calls em as he sees em. My favorite Kinkyism: "As Jesus said to the Mexicans, 'Don't do nothin till I get back.'"



I find it delicious that if Obama doesn't pick a Hillary he is in trouble with PUMA and if he picks a man he is in trouble with PUMA.


Who woulda thunk it? John Voight:

Cool guy.

The Democratic Party, in its quest for power, has managed a propaganda campaign with subliminal messages, creating a God-like figure in a man who falls short in every way. It seems to me that if Mr. Obama wins the presidential election, then Messrs. Farrakhan, Wright, Ayers and Pfleger will gain power for their need to demoralize this country and help create a socialist America.

The Democrats have targeted young people, knowing how easy it is to bring forth whatever is needed to program their minds. I know this process well. I was caught up in the hysteria during the Vietnam era, which was brought about through Marxist propaganda underlying the so-called peace movement. The radicals of that era were successful in giving the communists power to bring forth the killing fields and slaughter 2.5 million people in Cambodia and South Vietnam. Did they stop the war, or did they bring the war to those innocent people? In the end, they turned their backs on all the horror and suffering they helped create and walked away.

Those same leaders who were in the streets in the '60s are very powerful today in their work to bring down the Iraq war and to attack our president, and they have found their way into our schools. William Ayers is a good example of that.

TM, think he must read JOM.


Hey Rick or Rich, http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/jul/27/question-and-more-questions-time-were-the/>Moe at Red State has an interesting question I thought one of you might like to tackle.


http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/jul/28/update-on-the-latest-guide-to-the-perplexed-2/>I missed his update. Still, not good for the DNC.


And, http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/jul/28/update-on-the-latest-guide-to-the-perplexed-2/>I screwed up the link to the update. ::sigh::


Ann, I just like it that he is in trouble with PUMA. Period. And, if he starts tanking in the polls (which we all know are heavily weighted in FAVOR of dims), then I see a rebellion at the conventin.


Tim Kaine is Catholic-Obama's polling must be really terrible if he is looking for this little bit of identity politics.

Wonder if Gov. Kaine has been informed of this loathsome vote in Obama's record?

Here is a bit from the IL Senate Record...

Senator O'Malley, the testimony during the committee indicated that one of the key concerns was--is that there was a method of abortion, an induced abortion, where the-the fetus or child, as-as some might describe it, is still temporarily alive outside the womb. And one of the concerns that came out in the testimony was the fact that they were not being properly cared for during that brief period of time that they were still living.

Tim Kaine is Catholic.

So what? I am Catholic and I know alot of Catholics that are as conservative as I am - most of them, only 2nd generation of European heritage.

Speaking of Timmy, I see HotAir has picture with bad hair, too. Validating Drudge's photo. Don't know where PUK found the well groomed/good hair Kaine! grin.


So, as a Catholic, centracal, are you supporting Obama? Could a good Catholic serve as VP for him knowing his record on abortion and his unwillingness to protect babies who survive the vile procedure? Isn't that the point?


I like this. http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/jul/28/harry-reid-schooled-by-far-right-rogue-yet/>And they call him Dr. No. ::grin::


Not a good one, Sara.



My point was that Obama's campaign internal polling has to be very bad among Catholic votes for him to being tossing out Gov. Kaine's name. He's still in his first term and has taken a pass on eliminating the death penalty. He doesn't bring experience and Obama's support in the black community already puts VA in play.

Unless the BHO campaign is going to blow off MI (18 EV) and try to make it up with VA (14) and another small state picking him makes little sense.

laura Peter

I live in the Richmond diocese and if Kaine was raised and catechised by the clergy of this diocese led by its former Bishop, Walter Sullivan, abortion is not really seen as an issue. It is much more important to achieve social justice through redistribution and protesting against nukes and the school of the Americas than to protect the innocent unborn. Sounds like a great VP for Obama.


It is much more important to achieve social justice through redistribution and protesting against nukes ...

So he would fit right in with Fr. Pfleger and the rest of the cast at Hate Whitey United-Chicago.

laura Peter

Sullivan also managed to have almost every new project from high schools to assisted living centers named after himself before he retired. The thirty years he led have left this diocese in a shambles. The worst part is that the members don't have any idea of what it means to be Catholic.


Catholic beliefs center on respect for life and personal responsibility which would seeem to make for a more comfortable fit with conservative politics. However, liberal Catholics think being anti-war is more important than being anti-abortion and that government-provided "social justice" is more important than anything else. As conservative Catholics, my husband and I could never vote for Obama but my liberal Catholic in-laws will vote for him without hesitation primarily because he is against "Bush's immoral war". Catholics are definitely not a homogenous voting bloc.

Back to topic - I am hoping that the bloom does not come off the Obama rose for the press too fast. I fear the Dems getting shaky about their choice and pulling a Lautenberg at the convention by switching to Hillary. I think she will be much harder for McCain to beat.


Whoah, everyone. I did sound a little bit snarky. So, my sincere apologies.

I guess my point was that we cannot lump all segments of any group (Catholic, Jewish, Irish, Okie) into one lump politically.

RichatUF - I knew exactly the point you were making. No explanation is necesary. I was being rather flip and I really am sorry for the way I came off. That said, no one man, no one candidate, can assure any segment of our society will vote en bloc due that person's presence on the ticket.

I will try to be more careful in my snarky remarks. K?


imp--that was Rush's view and the entire point of Operation Chaos..


inmypajamas: I couldn't agree more with your final point about the bloom coming off the rose too fast. (thank you Anduril).

I really do wonder if Obama starts to tank, what may happen at the convention. I do not believe the Clintons are just sitting silently at home, licking their political wounds. They would much rather inflict political wounds. Speaking of those . . . National Enquirer.


Since Obama is already the messiah and shining star, his VP will not bring much excitement to his campaign, except maybe Hillary because of the personalities involved. Since McCain is perceived as dull in comparison, his VP could generate some waves. That's why I think he should go outside the box. He could trump a Kaine pick in Va. by picking Cantor.



I love your snark and you made a great point. Here's to the rebellion at the convention '08.


I drinking to that very rebellion, right now Ann.


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