McCain For Obama!

Oh, geez - selective soundbites will kill ya:

MCCAIN: 16 MONTHS A 'GOOD TIMETABLE'

From NBC's Mark Murray
In an interview on CNN today -- which the DNC is passing around -- McCain said that withdrawal from Iraq in 16 months is "a pretty good timetable."

Cool.  Now Maliki, McCain, and Obama are all on the same page.

After the initial shock and awe NBC diligently reports the rest of the story:

That answer came when McCain was asked about Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki's earlier claim to Der Spiegel that Obama's 16-month plan "would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes."

Of course, McCain did stress that such a withdrawal would "have to be based on conditions on the ground." But calling 16 months a "good timetable" is something McCain hasn't said before -- and probably never would have said a week ago.

The transcript:
BLITZER: What if Maliki persists? You're president and he says he wants US troops out and he wants them out, let's say in a year or two years or 16 months or whatever. What do you do? Do you listen to the prime minister? 

MCCAIN: He won't. He won't. He won't. Because it has to be condition-based.

BLITZER: How do you know?

MCCAIN: Because I know him. And I know him very well. And I know the other leaders. And I know -- I've been there eight times, as you know. I know them very, very well.

BLITZER: So why do you think he said that 16 months is basically a pretty good timetable? 

MCCAIN: He said it's a pretty good timetable based on conditions on the ground. I think it's a pretty good timetable, as we should -- or horizons for withdrawal. But they have to be based on conditions on the ground.

A conditions-based withdrawal over sixteen months would be "pretty good" if conditons allow for it - well, sure, what else can McCain say - even if conditions allow for it, it has to be fifteen months, or seventeen?

But this does not soundbite well for McCain.  And let's watch the Michael Cooper of the Times misreport it at the Times blog:

First the Iraqi government gave Senator Barack Obama a boost by seeming to embrace his proposal for a 16-month timetable for withdrawing American troops from Iraq. But could Senator John McCain, who built his candidacy in large part on his opposition to a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, possibly be following suit?

“I think it’s a pretty good timetable,” Mr. McCain said Friday in an interview on CNN’s “The Situation Room,’’ before adding that it should be based “on the conditions on the ground.’’

Well, McCain cited conditions on the ground both before and after endorsing sixteen months as a possible time frame, so it was hardly an after-thought or correction, as implied by Mr. Cooper.

And I question whether McCain "built his candidacy in large part on his opposition to a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq".  I would argue that he based his candidacy on a determination to see the war through to something resembling success.  His famous "hundred years" comment was meant to highlight that we didn't put our troops into Iraq with the objective of withdrawing them; the objective was victory.

McCain has argued and still argues that a non-conditions based timetable will simply embolden the forces of division in Iraq, who would wait the USA out and then strike.  But since he recently modified his rhetoric from "we are succeeding" to "we have succeeded", the notion of some sort of withdrawal under some scenario is surely in his planning.  For example, in his "vision" speech in mid-May, McCain imagined that most US forces would be home by 2013.

So McCain has been on board with US troops coming home after we win, and now it looks like we may have done just that [the AP declares victory!] (Suggested Pelosi spin - George Bush is so inept he even screwed up our defeat in Iraq).  And if conditions allow for sixteen moths, excellent.  For people who have been paying attention this McCain statement is not news, but it soundbites horribly and exemplifies the ways in which our success in Iraq neutralizes the issue for McCain, as I noted earlier.

Comments

[anduril]

Look for forthcoming commentary on this aspect of McCain's continuing but thus far unrequited love for Obama at this site.

[Jane]

Anduril,

You've been away for a while it seems. Welcome back.

[bio mom]

People have already made up their minds about Iraq. They will either vote for McCain or Obama not on anything either says today but on what has already happened. It is not what will change this election either way. Stop over-reacting to everything.

[Pete E.]

"A conditions-based withdrawal over sixteen months would be "pretty good" if conditions allow for it"

Given that we have "won" (whatever that means) how can conditions not allow for it?

Unless we may still lose?

In which case, how have we won?

[anduril]

Jane, I thought the martini motif at that site would be particularly appealing around here.

Among other things I'm painting the interior of my house this summer while simultaneously battling Japanese beetles, blackspot, and juggling a few other things as well.

[Barney Frank]

Given that we have "won" (whatever that means)

That means the other guys are dead.

[hit and run]

anduril:
battling Japanese beetles

While we were on vacation, we got word from neighbors that the beetles were horrendous here. But since I've been back, I haven't seen any.

I suppose they picked up and left -- and headed to your place.

Sorry 'bout that.

[Peter]

Pete E, if you could open a history book you will find that we won the war against Germany by late 1944. Then Hitler sent an attack through the "Bulge" by a dozen divisions and the victory was delayed.

If the rements of alQueda are reinforced and send their survivors into an all out attack AND United STATES POLITIANS ALLOW A MILITARY RESPONSE, we will still win. It will just take a while longer.

Otherwise it will be like Viet Nam where we won that war, pulled back our combat troops and then, after the North Viets gathered their strength again and attacked, Democrats in Congress refused to live up to the treaties that the United States had signed and Congress approved. The Democrats then refused the air and naval cover and the ammunition that we had promised. Millions died in southeast Asia and Democrats are still proud of themselves over it.
What is it with Democrats and their love for killing the innocent?

[MikeS]

Obama's 16 month pull out plan is enjoying the same phenomenon experienced by a stopped clock. Obama originally suggested a full scale retreat at a time when al Qaeda and Iran were experiencing gains in Iraq.

As the months have passed two thing have been happening. The tide has turned against Iraq's enemies, and at the same time Obama's position has moderated to include listening to military commanders and leaving a residual force in Iraq. IIRC an Obama advisor suggested a residual force of 60,000 to 80,000 troops.

The U.S. has already started withdrawing our troops. Before Genl. Petraeus requested a pause, a target of 100,000 troops remaining by this years end was being discussed. Sec Gates made the announcement that we would not meet that goal. So, it would appear that Obama's goals are now not far from the goals of the Bush Administration. In fact there may soon be a time when Obama's goals will fall behind the Administration's, due to the fact that Barack's clock is stopped and reality just keeps on tickin'

[Afternoon]

The Obamasiah has spoken and given a timetable to our salvation and Malaki knows that it is a mistake not to do what the Obamasiah says(or you can say it's Harvard if you don't like the pain or Macarana). Vietnam, the terror was Clinton's years and the dems put in Bush, now they're done with Bush and they'll put in the Obamasiah to withdraw and the destruction is as planned as the terror.

The Obamasiah has made it clear you were wrong and should pay.

[Ann]

Anduril,

If you have a cure for Japanese beetles, other than picking them off, I would dearly love to know it. They have been the bain of my existence the last three weeks.

[hit and run]

MikeS:
Obama's 16 month pull out plan is enjoying the same phenomenon experienced by a stopped clock ... In fact there may soon be a time when Obama's goals will fall behind the Administration's, due to the fact that Barack's clock is stopped and reality just keeps on tickin'

I agree. I'll copy and paste out of laziness...

It's the same as those who perpetually are calling for a recession. They'll be right one day -- and then they'll try and tell us they should be viewed as having superior judgment for calling it.

Some day, hopefully sooner rather than later, the conditions on the ground will be such that we can remove troops to the extent and at a pace that Obama can say he is vindicated.

Even if it is bullshit.

Would that that were possible tomorrow.

[RichatUF]

It is as good a time as any to take another look at Obama's shifting principled position on Iraq. I'l wait for the Sunday talk show circuit to see what the focus grouped talking points for Obama's new, new position.

[getagrip]

Does McCain have an aggression problem like so many of his republican colleagues have suggested? He certainly is nasty and inappropriate.

Some examples of McCain's straight talk:

A joke told by him at a 1998 fundraiser:

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno."

And then at a time of such tremendous human catastrophe in Iraq he sings:

"Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb bomb Iran."

to the tune of Barbara Anne.

And who would call their wife a cunt let alone in earshot of reporters.

What a nasty old man!

[Ann]

Soros, must have just cast another spell and said:

" You'll believe in more than that before I've finished with you. Take your army to the conservative blogs. Fly! Fly! Fly!

[PeterUK]

Looks like Deranged Digits is back.
If McCain is wrong what is the real reason Chelsea is ugly?

[MikeS]

...those who perpetually are calling for a recession. They'll be right one day

Great example. I was thinking of those tipsters at the races. They will tout the #1 horse, then move ten steps and tout #2 horse then... Eventually, they do tout the winner.

[anduril]

Ann, hit, I normally pick them off--with a pliers. :-) That usually keeps them under control. However, I seem to have more than the usual contingent this year, perhaps because I was occupied indoors quite a bit. Since I have 60 rose bushes (down from what I used to have), you can imagine that I have to be fairly vigilant. So, for the first time I decided to supplement the pliers with an insecticide--Sevin, on the recommendation of my brother. I'm still not sure what effect it's having. I can't tell whether it merely drives them away for a while or if it actually kills them--I suspect the former. However, I still patrol several times per day.

I've tried to be discriminating about the spraying, so as to avoid harm to the bees. So far the bees seem to be still doing well. I only spray if I see an upspike in beetle numbers, I try to spray when bees aren't active (evening), and I try to restrict my spraying to bushes that show beetle activity. (Over many years of rose growing I've noted, and heard the same from others, that for whatever reason Japanese beetles tend to prefer white or otherwise light colored roses.) I'm also considering using something like Grub-X on the lawn in the fall, just to be sure. I'm told that on no account should you ever use a trap, as they attract far more beetles to your plants than ever enter the trap.

[RichatUF]

This bit over at Hot Air is making the rounds, so it seems that the Obama Campaign has to figure a way to take credit for victory but not admit that the Bush Administration or McCain were right. I'm thinking the winner will be "we shouldn't have gone at all and we need to ramp up the focus on al-Qeada, etc. Iraq is a distracton."

If there is unpleasentness to be attended to do it all at once and do it quickly...

[hit and run]

anduril:
I'm told that on no account should you ever use a trap, as they attract far more beetles to your plants than ever enter the trap.

Yup. The Bag of Bugs was all the rage in Nashville, so we got one.

There is a certain satisfaction seeing several hundred bugs in that bag.

But that is quickly dimished by seeing several thousand enjoying life in the environs immediately outside the bag.

[Barney Frank]

Soros, must have just cast another spell and said:

" You'll believe in more than that before I've finished with you. Take your army to the conservative blogs. Fly! Fly! Fly!

LOL.

[Ann]

"I normally pick them off--with a pliers" Anduril

LOL, I throw them in a bucket of soapy water. When my daughter was younger, she called it my beatle stew / witches brew. :)

I use to love "Margaret Merrill" roses, but gave up. Those darn things love white roses the best. I have tried Sevin and it is not anything like the pliers!! I am also going to try the Grub-X thing.

Anyways, Thanks for your reply. I will think of you and your pliers when I am on my own patrol.

[Ann]

Thanks, Barney :)

[Barney Frank]

Ann,

Those flying monkeys were a serious source of distress for me when I was in short pants and Buster Brown's.
It's a pleasure to laugh at them now.

[JM Hanes]

Hi anduril!

I've thought of a series of comments you made back when the primaries were heating up every time anyone has cited the importance of the catholic vote. :)

The problem with going the Grub-X route is that your neighbors probably aren't and you're the one growing the little monsters' favorite food group. We had pretty good luck with beetle collecting contests back when our kids were young and impressionable.

[anduril]

JMH, it's hard to beat the satisfaction that pliers afford when used on Japanese beetles. I used Grub-X once before, when the grubs killed patches of my lawn. Since they seem to have made a come back, I don't want to take any chances.

I seem to recall the Catholic angle came up again not too long ago. However, to be honest, I haven't been following politics all that closely--as I said on the other thread, I find Obama to be intensely uninteresting as a person, and McCain makes me want to reach for the bottle whenever he opens his mouth. Re Obama, I can take an interest in a person who has overcome an adverse family situation, but as far as I can tell he's just internalized all the pathology. I can feel some sympathy--who's to say I would have done better?--but, sorry, it's just not interesting.

[anduril]

Oh, I should add, about a month ago I sold my parents' condo--and damn lucky we were: prices have come down more since then. The other thing that has turned me off the news is the depressing irresponsibility of Congress. Don't get me going on the Court.

As a sop to the McCainiacs out there, I will say that Obama is so snooze inducing that McCain just may have a chance. A legit Messiah should be doing better in the polls at this point.

[centralcal]

ohmigawd! I just found out what the bugs in my roses were! Japanese Beetles?

I had them for the first time this Spring, in my Iceberg roses and my Sally Holmes (both white flowered).

The 2nd bloom in June was bug free. And I hope the next bloom cycle in a few weeks is too. Do they like a particular kind of weather (moist)? It is very, very dry here, so I have my fingers crossed that these beetles are just a Spring phenomenon for me.

[anduril]

Sally Holmes--very beautiful I've never grown it because I heard it's particularly prone to blackspot. Not a problem in your dry climate, I imagine. I have a huge Sir Thomas Lipton, also white, which is their favorite. I don't know their climate preferences, but Japanese beetles are not a seasonal phenomenon. They're very prolific and their grubs winter over in the ground, eating the roots of your lawn. Charming.

[centralcal]

I googled the beetles and the pictures look like the bugs I have gotten the past 2 Springs.

Sally Holmes is only on her second year in my yard. Huge. Fabulous. One stem creates a whole bouquet all by itself. But, the Spring is the best bloom season here in the dry heat, so I am especially bummed to learn my mystery bugs are the beetle from hell.

So, should I treat the lawn (it looks surprisingly good) in the winter to kill the grubs?

[anduril]

Hard to say. I never knew the damage they could do until I saw dead patches one year. Only happened once, and I've been growing rose for at least 20 years. If you had a serious infestation it might be a wise preventative.

[cathyf]

I read in an organic gardening book that walking on your grass with cleats during the correct timeframs would kill the grubs. Of course you've got to get all your neighbors out there, too.

[JT007]

Wasn't McCain just quoting Maliki? He prefaces that whole statement with "He said..." I think he may been inartfully repeating Maliki's statement by saying "I think it (i.e. Obama's 16 month dictate) is a good timetable..., etc." This is the problem when you have people scrutinizing every single word out of your mouth, you are forced to give thousands of interviews going over the same topics over and over again and, yes, McCain's age doesn't help. Like Obama, he isn't a very good extemporaneous speaker. The only way to cut through all of this stuff is to look at the candidates statements over time. McCain has always said that conditions on the ground and the recommendation of our military commanders should be paramount in determining when the tropps are withdrwn.

[centralcal]

Hey, thanks Anduril. Who knew I would find my rose pest on JOM?!!!!

[perc]

Love this blog but rarely comment as I have little to contribute, but regarding the grubs; Beneficial Nematodes got rid of our grubs a few years ago, but I can't remember what kind of grubs they were. Required two applications and the timing and weather had to be rather precise but effectively restored our lawn. They are non-toxic to all but the grubs. Bought them online up here in the Great White North but assume they are available in the US. Worth a google search to find out if they are effective on Japanese beetles.

[anduril]

centralcal, perc, here's an article from the 7/22 WSJ Personal Journal: War of the Roses: Beetles vs. Nematodes. The author mentions at least two nematode products, which he used with indifferent results. I don't know; I've had no experience. On the other hand, the article does discuss the whole beetle issue. It seems they landed on the east coast and have been moving west. Clever title, eh?

[bad]

Welcome perc!!! Surely you underestimate yourself. We'd love to hear from you.

[anduril]

centralcal, nie ma za co, I give free advice on almost anything--unasked! I even give free music recommendations, occasionally, also unbidden. Since I've been painting indoors (and, especially, preparing to paint--yuck!) for weeks now, I've been listening to a lot of CD's and acquiring some new ones. Anyone interested in really good lute music for cheap, Robert Barto has a nine volume series of the complete music of Sylvius Leopold Weiss (contemporary, possible friend, of JSBach) on Naxos. None of the CD's cost more than like 8.99. The quality of performance and recording is outstanding. To get a fascinating free preview, here's Barto performing a complete allemande in d minor (not a sound byte) by Weiss on Youtube: Allemande in D Minor. Amazing. I have the first two volumes, and like volume 2 especially well.

[hit and run]

McCain likes 16 months?

Now Obama likes conditions.

From Hot Air:

Q: You’ve been talking about those limited missions for a long time. Having gone there and talked to both diplomatic and military folks, do you have a clearer idea of how big a force you’d need to leave behind to fulfill all those functions?

OBAMA: I do think that’s entirely conditions-based. It’s hard to anticipate where we may be six months from now, or a year from now, or a year and a half from now.

[centralcal]

Anduril, dinners cooking, granddaughter #8 is here so I have to make this fast . . .

I love JOM, but most of all because of the group that congregates here. I learn every time I check in . . . promise after dinner to try out the lute music. I like opera, classical, and just about everything else in descending order.

Thanks for gardening tips that I probably would have never found otherwise. And, Perc, that means you too!

[bad]

Now Obama likes conditions.

His surrogates and he will claim they have always been in favor of conditions, the MSM will parrot that line as well, and we'll all wonder if we really have been drinking as much as we joke that we do.

[Soylent Red]

Anduril: That's some good stuff. Thanks.

Now on to Obamessiah...

I'm thinking about a policy of only partaking of the news every other day. Obamessiah's pace of changing positions on things makes it very difficult to follow along.

Surely the American people must be seeing this.

[Porchlight]

I don't know thing one about gardening, I just enjoy saying "beneficial nematodes."

Actually they supposedly work for fleas on pets, too. Some dog owners I know here in central Texas swear by them.

[Jane]

I fear the American people are not following along at all. In the end it will be the young cool guy v the old white guy - both with the same positions on everything - at least that is how it will be phrased.

And if republicans in Congress can extort a drilling package out of Pelosi and Reid there will be no differences at all - and our lives as we know them will forever be changed....

[DaleinAtlanta]

Speaking of your new Messiah: Barack HUSSEIN Obama (PBUH)(SWT)(SAW):

Another inconvenient Muslim relative turned up today, a Brother:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/the_real_american_idol/article1472877.ece

And, here's an interesting story from today's UK Telegraph, where in the very first sentence, it says the Obama's do not give "Christmas" nor "Birthday" presents to their children?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2460299/Barack-Obama-does-not-give-birthday-presents-to-children.html

Interesting, isn't it?

What kind of "Christians" ban Christmas presents to their children?

I know, I know, Jehovah Witnesses, correct? Do you have evidence that Obama and family, suddenly converted to The Watch Tower group?

Huh?

Obviously, Jews don't celebrate Christmas, but I doubt that's the Obama's excuse, especially since they've belonged to a patentedly Anti-Semitic "Church" for 20+ years!

There is one other "group" in America however, that neither celebrates Christmas nor Birthdays, but which has approved the giving of "Seasonal Gifts"; which is what the Obama's now do; read about it here:

http://www.masnet.org/askimam_runsess.asp?id=247

Interesting, isn't it?

Can you say: "Taqiyah"?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

[anduril]

Sometimes I think that public life in America has been dumbed down as far as it can go, but then my optimistic side takes over. Uh, I mean...

[centralcal]

DaleinAtlanta: That is interesting.

I too wondered what Obama meant by "seasonal gifts" being given by Santa Claus.

This guy is really weird! Really, really. Michelle, not so much. We have all know Michelles in our lifteime . . . starts with a b and ends with an itch.

[Jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet]

With an eeeeyah in the middle, cc.

[Porchlight]

I think the idea is that they celebrate Christmas and birthdays, they just don't give presents. Or maybe Santa gives the presents at Christmas - but that's how a lot of families do it. Sounds like the kids are still getting presents bought by Mom & Dad.

Didn't they just famously celebrate one of their daughter's birthdays with Access Hollywood looking on? I don't have the stomach to watch, but it would be interesting if presents were given and opened in any of those segments.

[Sue]

After reading the definition of Taqiyya from Dale's link, I'm not sure Obama could justify "concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of imminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury". Is running for president considered imminent danger? Physicial or mental injury?

[DaleinAtlanta]

Is running for president considered imminent danger? Physicial or mental injury?

Posted by: Sue | July 26, 2008 at 10:33 PM

Sue, Obama is so arrogant, that for him, concealing what he truly believes in is necessary just to get elected!

[Jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet]

And in his mind, his not getting elected puts us all in imminent danger, donchaknow?

"We are the change that we seek."

And if we don't gt it, we're all dooooooommmmmed!!!!

[getagrip]

Get off the "surge worked" nonsense. Worked to do what? Get the violence levels down to something that makes Sadam's Iraq look like the Garden of Eden? The surge was not responsible for the moderate reduction in violence. What was? At the end of 2008 we will have no legal basis under the UN for staying in Iraq. Every Iraqi knows this of course (but it is rare to find an american that does) and the warring factions will simply bide their time for a few months. That is why the violence has seen a moderate decline.

Are you people really as ill-informed and self-destructively partisan as your posts would suggest?

[JM Hanes]

Whatever it takes to get you through the day, getagrip. It's hard out there for a pimp.

[bgates]

Is running for president considered imminent danger?
Gotta be worse than going to the gas station, which would put Obama in mortal peril.

[kim]

getagrip, get a grip and stop hoping for violence. Are you really so ill-informed and pessimistic as your post would suggest? Remember the purple fingered majesty, and accept that the Iraqis want freedom and self-determination just as much as your forebears did.
=============================

[BOATBUILDER]

While Obama's efforts to claim credit for the apparent success of the Petreus/Bush strategy is exasperating, and the complicity of much of the MSM even more so, I believe that the net effect of this "controversy" over timelines for withdrawal will be positive.
The Obama supporters/MSM view is that withdrawal in and of itself is the goal--victory or success is not the point (in fact, defeat or "quagmire" might be preferable, but that ain't happening.
To the average poorly-informed American, the thing they will come away with is--Huh? We won? How and when did that happen?
The uninformed muddle (sometimed referred to as "swing voters") heard several years ago that all was lost--I suspect that it is just now penetrating their consciousness that maybe that wasn't and isn't true. These things take time to sink in--lets hope it does before November.
And what I know about Japanese beetles is that skunks like the grubs. We have the whole mess--roses, beetles, grubs, spots in the lawn, and skunks under the porches. The only good thing is that the dogs aren't clever enough to catch the skunks.

[thelonereader]

Morning all,
We had a severe case of Japanese beetles several years ago,we used those bag a bug things, the following spring we has grub damage and woke one morning to a very large area of our lawn ripped up and all askew from skunks looking for the grubs. Took a long time to correct the situation. We were told then that the bags do attract the beetles however they deposit there eggs or whatever in your lawn before they head for the bag, have never used a bag since.

[BOATBUILDER]

I have suggested that we just tear out the roses.
Wasn't taken very well.

[centralcal]

Morning Boatbuilder! Well, so far no skunks, so I guess I have one blessing!

I only plant "landscape" type roses, so I am not too up in arms over the beetles, but I would like to be rid of them.

I think Obama-mania is slowly fading, rather than building. I just hope it fades fast enough for November.

[clarice]

Black rot and beetles are such a problem here, I had all the hybrid roses ripped out a couple of years ago. Now I only have unhybridized cottage roses and while they aren't as showy and don't last as long , I don't have to do a damned thing to them to keep them alive.

[anduril]

clarice, do you have specific names for your roses? "Cottage rose" is a generic kind of descriptor that seems to often include David Austin's English Roses, for example (of which I have quite a few)--which are all hybrids. Most roses of any sort are hybrids, grown on one of just a few root stocks. In fact, the susceptibility of many hybrid teas to blackspot comes from the wild (non-hybrid) Austrian copper rose (?) in their ancestry. I would be very interested in specifics about your roses: who you got them from, their names, varieties, etc.

[clarice]

I don't.Some were planted alongside the house before I got here. The others I believe I purchased some years ago--probably from the Winterthur catalogue. Both bushes produce masses of light pink, very delicate not long lasting flowers..but they never got black spot and the beetles do not seem to get to them. I do absolutely nothing to them except an occasional pruning when they get too stalky and out of hand. (I'm a lousy gardener and mostly stick to the simple stuff and my house front and back is full of long established perennials in all the sunny, good growing spots.)

[clarice]

anduril--most people call them species roses--and here are some varieties. http://www.highcountryroses.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=1076372759&BACK=A0001A1>Species roses

I went to look for the Winterthur catalogue and found out that in March they discontinued it.
IIRC I read that the plant I bought had been grown from seeds collected outside abandoned farmhouses where these roses continued to bloom without any tending at all.

[clarice]

Or they could be Old Garden Roses--In face they look more like these.
http://www.highcountryroses.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=1076372882&CAT=1079698961&BACK=A0007A1B01076372882B1>Plant them and forget them.

[clarice]

**in facT***

[anduril]

Very interesting. The gallica's like the Apothecary Rose and Red Rose of Lancaster are what I thought you might be referring to. Some of the species roses like rosa foetida are well known for carrying blackspot. I've never grown gallica's so aybe I should try. Probably the most trouble free rose that I have--NEVER seen a hint of blackspot and no beetles--is Ballerina. The Mary Rose and related types are also very good.

Interesting catalogue. Thanks.

[clarice]

You're welcome.

[clarice]

Boy, the ballerina sure looks like a dogwood blossom.

[clarice]

I think at least one of my bushes is a rosa gallica.

[centralcal]

Oh, anduril - Ballerina! Every time I see photos of it I fall in love with it. Saw one large specimen growing beautifully in the California wine country.

Alas, it fries and dies in my semi-arid desert climate. I am jealous of any of you that can have this lovely plant.

[centralcal]

Clarice: the link under my name has a picture of Ballerina that is most like the one I saw in person.

Just a fabulously beautiful shrubby rose.

[clarice]

Very lovely, indeed.

[memomachine]

Hmmmm.

Maliki might be patting himself on the back. But if Obama wins in November it'll partly be because of this maneuver of his.

And I think he'll long enough to really regret it.